:symr::symw::symu:. One of the five, enemy color triads, or wedges. Its been, traditionally, the most difficult of the wedges to capture the flavor for as per various wedge set attempts.
What sorts of mechanical identities and/or world designs do you think of when you think of RWU?
One of the major ideals that sticks out to me is the idea of Trancendence. A world devoid of Green or Black mana is one that is free from the trappings of the cycles of life and death. Immortality.
Mechanically, Equipment make sense, as RWU all have affinity for artifacts/equipment.
As far as world design, Efreet inhabited deserts, arabic overtones, a world taken with high ideals and virtue. Or highly futuristic steampunk time traveling society.
Phrases that come to mind: "Order out of Chaos". and :symr::symu: can be characterized as chaotic. Think Izzet. and :symu::symw: can be considered orderly. Think Azorius. The combining of these two elements could make for an interesting story plot involving this wedge.
I like your thought on transcendence, that could be a very interesting way to go with it. Also agree on equipment. Not so sure on the Arabian Nights take, it just doesn't fit blue very well.
In a Shards of Alara style setting, I'd picture this shard as almost a Ravnica-like metropolis. The three colors would have a lot of artifacts, though in a much different way than Esper--vehicles and structures could be interesting for Urw. And law/order could be a major theme of the Wur aspects.
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I've always thought of RWU as the most Equipment oriented triad. Playing around with life could be a small theme with creatures that are smaller versions of Illusions of Grandeur.
Dwarves would be their iconic race I'd imagine, prone to deep though, high emotion, and order. They'd be crafters and creators of beautiful, amazing pieces of equipment, but also capable of reforging them into other things.
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Mechanically, Equipment make sense, as RWU all have affinity for artifacts/equipment.
Agreed. Actually, just yesterday I was considering a Fortification (sub)theme for RWU -- the word "art" pops up in RWU discussions like clockwork, and architecture is a good channel for that predilection. Not that Fortifications have a whole lot of design space.
RWU is the wedge without BG. As Foo points out, these are the colors most associated with the transitions of life and death. However, these are tools they use, associated with aspects opf each color's philosophy. We need to dig a little deeper to find the core of BG, and by extension, what defines RWU by its exclusion.
Black and Green both accept the world as it is. What they mean by "the world as it is" may be very different, but Green seeks to preserve the natural order of the existing world, while Black seeks to do as well as it can in a world where everyone's in it for themselves. Green and Black are the colors of realism.
What is a world without realism? A world of ideals. Red believes that if everyone were free, the world would be a better place. White believes that if everyone would work together, the world would be a better place. Blue believes that if everyone would just apply the principles of rationality, the world would be a better place. Each color of RWU has an ideal vision of how the world should be, as opposed to Black and Green's acceptance of how the world is.
RWU is the wedge of Athens, of the Enlightenment, of the American and French Revolutions. It is the world made perfect by the power of ideals.
RWU is the wedge without BG. As Foo points out, these are the colors most associated with the transitions of life and death. However, these are tools they use, associated with aspects opf each color's philosophy. We need to dig a little deeper to find the core of BG, and by extension, what defines RWU by its exclusion.
Black and Green both accept the world as it is. What they mean by "the world as it is" may be very different, but Green seeks to preserve the natural order of the existing world, while Black seeks to do as well as it can in a world where everyone's in it for themselves. Green and Black are the colors of realism.
What is a world without realism? A world of ideals. Red believes that if everyone were free, the world would be a better place. White believes that if everyone would work together, the world would be a better place. Blue believes that if everyone would just apply the principles of rationality, the world would be a better place. Each color of RWU has an ideal vision of how the world should be, as opposed to Black and Green's acceptance of how the world is.
RWU is the wedge of Athens, of the Enlightenment, of the American and French Revolutions. It is the world made perfect by the power of ideals.
This is no lie. Indeed, at least to me, Mister M was able to sum up in words what RWU is atleast in terms of identity on the color pie.
Recently I had been researching various forms of Ideals and Virtues, such as Transcendence and articles such as Being Virtuous: Benjamin Franklin's 13 Virtues of Life. These got me thinking about RWU as the color of high ideals.
To be captured in mechanical terms, Incarnations, such as the ones on Lorwyn would make sense. It would also be a good time to attempt to execute the "Creature turns into Enchantment" mechanic, such as the Ascendant cycle from Kamigawa, but perhaps using DFC's instead? Or a world of Knights that invoke the code of Chivalry conversely a Samurai nation that embraces Bushido.
Bant very well could have been the "Auras Shard", just as RWU could be the "Equipment Shard", but this is based upon mechanical themes given the description of RWU above, how do you think you would execute RWU's mechanics/and or world design from which the mechanic can be based upon?
Creature control. Blue is the king of creature stealing, with Red getting it with temporary control. White has had this effect before, though mostly for nostalgicm reasons. ie: Evangelize. Nonetheless, White's ability to prevent creatures from interacting does give it a bleed into this territory.
Tapping/untapping and combat control: Preventing creatures from attacking and blocking is White. Preventing them from blocking is Red. Tapping and untapping, which can used to serve much the same function, are White/Blue and the stretch has been made to make tapping Red in rare instances (you could regard it is being a tertiary mechanic within the color).
Flying: red usually only gets Flying on Dragons, but it gets a fair share nonetheless. Flying is typical on small Blue and White creatures, so there's no doubt that this wedge could have a strong Flying subtheme of its creatures.
The biggest distance between them is that White and Blue are far more protective and defensive than Red. However, if you move this nature to defend oneself into a more offensive pattern, one dictacted by a mixture of tempo and removal, it runs closer to Red's tendencies of immediate, visceral reward.
This is no lie. Indeed, at least to me, Mister M was able to sum up in words what RWU is atleast in terms of identity on the color pie.
Recently I had been researching various forms of Ideals and Virtues, such as Transcendence and articles such as Being Virtuous: Benjamin Franklin's 13 Virtues of Life. These got me thinking about RWU as the color of high ideals.
To be captured in mechanical terms, Incarnations, such as the ones on Lorwyn would make sense. It would also be a good time to attempt to execute the "Creature turns into Enchantment" mechanic, such as the Ascendant cycle from Kamigawa, but perhaps using DFC's instead? Or a world of Knights that invoke the code of Chivalry conversely a Samurai nation that embraces Bushido.
Bant very well could have been the "Auras Shard", just as RWU could be the "Equipment Shard", but this is based upon mechanical themes given the description of RWU above, how do you think you would execute RWU's mechanics/and or world design from which the mechanic can be based upon?
These are strong ideas, as are Planeswalker's and Curious Thing's. What I take away from this thread is, there is no dearth of possible mechanical avenues for this wedge. However, picking your mechanics takes another step. Mechanics help to flesh out your world. So, what does your world look like?
Off the top of my head, I can come up with two very different ideas for a RWU world. Sigismund's suggestion of a Ravnica-style metropolis, and Curious Thing's reference to architecture, resonate with me. The cityscape's order plays up White's ideals of harmony and Blue's ideals of rationality, while its cosmopolitan nature allows for Red to realize its ideal of individuality.
And then there's an idea I got from my own prior post. Greece is a land of mountains, plains, and islands, and Athenian culture is a strong fit for the idealism of RWU. A Greek-style setting for this wedge could be quite compelling. I'm sure that, given time and some creative juices, other settings could be imagined.
RWU is the wedge of Athens, of the Enlightenment, of the American and French Revolutions. It is the world made perfect by the power of ideals.
This is my usual take on the wedge, which was curious to realize at the time lined up so perfectly with nationalistic Americanism- at best, idealistic; at its worst, jingoistic.
I had planned to do a wedge set before Alara came and everyone did theirs. Anyway, my RWU wedge faction was an Athenian-like civilization, basically you can extrapolate the gist of the society from that. Every citizen was a mage, and they were supposed to prove their worth constantly in several arenas (figuratively), with each individual expected to be a politician, a warrior and a philosopher.
The reigning philosophy was: be the best you can be. The mage-citizens of the faction would be busy with in-fighting unless they perceived an external threat, where they would unite to vanquish it and return to their own quarreling.
The idea is that constant struggle makes you able to become a better version of yourself, and thus serve the group better. The blue ideal of cumulative knowledge, the white ideal of community and the red ideal of individualism are then folded together.
For those of who familiar, Dalaran from the World of Warcraft Series, or something like it, seems like it would be a good fit for a RWU setting?
What types of major races come to mind then for each of these suggested settings?
Minotaurs like Zedruu would fit the greece/athenian style setting, Dwarfs and Humans seem like a solid go to for RWU as well. Perhaps even some Vedalken.
I think Mister M hit the nail on the head with his analysis. Spot on.
Of course, there are an indefinite number of directions you can take this, which is one of the downsides to having the guilds of ravnica and the shards of alara be so popular. WotC did a great job in both of these sets of characterizing the color sections that many people get stuck to those identities, especially new players.
As a side note, I've always wanted to see the world Zedru comes from. It seems like it would be an interesting place.
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This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
I think Mister M hit the nail on the head with his analysis. Spot on.
Couldn't agree more. Also to add to what Mister M had to say, I think based on definition, RWU could be considered the Virtue Wedge.
From Wikipedia: Virtue (Latin: virtus, Ancient Greek: ἀρετή "arete") is moral excellence. A virtue is a positive trait or quality deemed to be morally good and thus is valued as a foundation of principle and good moral being. Personal virtues are characteristics valued as promoting collective and individual greatness.
RWU is the wedge without BG. As Foo points out, these are the colors most associated with the transitions of life and death. However, these are tools they use, associated with aspects opf each color's philosophy. We need to dig a little deeper to find the core of BG, and by extension, what defines RWU by its exclusion.
Black and Green both accept the world as it is. What they mean by "the world as it is" may be very different, but Green seeks to preserve the natural order of the existing world, while Black seeks to do as well as it can in a world where everyone's in it for themselves. Green and Black are the colors of realism.
What is a world without realism? A world of ideals. Red believes that if everyone were free, the world would be a better place. White believes that if everyone would work together, the world would be a better place. Blue believes that if everyone would just apply the principles of rationality, the world would be a better place. Each color of RWU has an ideal vision of how the world should be, as opposed to Black and Green's acceptance of how the world is.
RWU is the wedge of Athens, of the Enlightenment, of the American and French Revolutions. It is the world made perfect by the power of ideals.
Taken further, I think RWU can exemplify meritocracy. I think the color combination would be very invested in the ideal that an individual's standing is only limited by his own talents, and those talents can be grown and perfected. It's about an individual being the best they can be and achieving higher social standing as a result (which in turn is best for both the individual and the community). The best rise up and no individual is restrained from bettering themselves. It's the development of a community by encouraging the personal betterment of the individuals that comprise the community.
I also strongly believe that RWU is the best opportunity to explore creativity as a major theme in red. Particularly through the emotional expression of art. It's very rarely been a thematic factor in card flavor (where red has traditionally been limited to its aggression and very physical forms of expression and warfare), but creativity is firmly within red's flavor as a color. And WU is a great team to help red explore that. White (which already has a very strong history with art's many forms) enjoys the structure and symbolism of art while blue appreciates understanding what constitutes quality in art and sees artistic talent as yet another trait to know fully and perfect. Red simply wants to share how it feels and experience what others are expressing as well. Blue's very into the form and talent involved, white is into the deeper meanings and the ordered nature of the process and red just wants to feel things fully and put those feelings out there for all to see. Of course, I'm a bit invested in this flavor as a branch of RWU.
Taken further, I think RWU can exemplify meritocracy. I think the color combination would be very invested in the ideal that an individual's standing is only limited by his own talents, and those talents can be grown and perfected. It's about an individual being the best they can be and achieving higher social standing as a result (which in turn is best for both the individual and the community). The best rise up and no individual is restrained from bettering themselves. It's the development of a community by encouraging the personal betterment of the individuals that comprise the community.
I think that's a bit too black for my liking. That might fit better in Esper - it probably does if you look at the underlying nature of its society rather than the superficial "OMG ARTIFACTS".
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Only if you view it as ambition to be better than your peers for the sake of having that power over them. Which is the dark, selfish version of a meritocracy. I think, at its heart, meritocracy is about an individual working towards his personal best for its own sake and the society at large seeing the value in that. For the community to be its best, it needs all those within it functioning the best they can be in roles their talents/skills/knowledge makes them suited for. I get where you're coming from and I think you're right that WUB is the logical combination for the selfish, ambition-driven version of meritocracy, I just think that in its purest, noble form, meritocracy is a primarily RWU ideal. It's red's desire to be free to pursue its passion meets blue's pursuit of taking potential to its greatest limits meets white's fondness for organizing individuals to better the collective whole. I think the key difference between the RWU and WUB versions is one betters itself because it's truly something the individual feels strongly about and the other sees that betterment as but a means to an end (that end typically being more power or social clout).
The concept I came up with a friend when we were designing a wedge set is that the
"base" colour is trapped by its enemies. Shards were harmonious because they were governed by an allied colour, but wedges are the opposite. For example, the RWU wedge we designed was mostly covered by sea. Merfolk and Avian were the dominant tribes of the wedge, with goblins being put at a severe disadvantage in the world. They only had small islands for land, and had to make use of bridges and canoes in order to move around the world.
What is a world without realism? A world of ideals. Red believes that if everyone were free, the world would be a better place. White believes that if everyone would work together, the world would be a better place. Blue believes that if everyone would just apply the principles of rationality, the world would be a better place. Each color of RWU has an ideal vision of how the world should be, as opposed to Black and Green's acceptance of how the world is.
RWU is the wedge of Athens, of the Enlightenment, of the American and French Revolutions. It is the world made perfect by the power of ideals.
Lol, I couldn't disagree more. It looks like you've been thinking (maybe subconsciously) about american/french colors because of RUW, and got these "idealist" concepts.
Maybe U is the most idealist color, while (G/R) are the most pragmatic - but every color has it's ideals and it's practices. Idealism has nothing to do with RUW wedge.
(W/U) are more prone to accept the world as it is - not (G/B). In fact, (G/B) is (W/U)'s opposite pair. But every color can be more active/reactive to it's world in it's own way - blue might want to omniscience, black might want omnipotence, white might want equality, red might want absolute freedom, etc, etc. Depending on it's environment (if that color is on top in that particular setting), that color will want to "change the world" or "keep the status quo". Gruul want to change Ravnica, but they would be much more accepting in Zendikar.
Onto your question, I think there are a couple of things that represent RUW wedge, but they're hard to create cards for: 1) Sports. Red's desire for action combined with (W/U)'s regulation. 2) Art. Can't be done without both intellect and passion. An artocratic society would have a W side to it, as to regulate and classify different types of arts.
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All of the other commentary on this thread - talking about the philosophy or milieu of the set - applies just fine. But steampunk really just captures all of these ideas as a total package.
A moralistic, intellectual society with manic undertones? That defines both steampunk and RWU perfectly.
Lol, I couldn't disagree more. It looks like you've been thinking (maybe subconsciously) about american/french colors because of RUW, and got these "idealist" concepts.
Maybe U is the most idealist color, while (G/R) are the most pragmatic - but every color has it's ideals and it's practices. Idealism has nothing to do with RUW wedge.
(W/U) are more prone to accept the world as it is - not (G/B). In fact, (G/B) is (W/U)'s opposite pair. But every color can be more active/reactive to it's world in it's own way - blue might want to omniscience, black might want omnipotence, white might want equality, red might want absolute freedom, etc, etc. Depending on it's environment (if that color is on top in that particular setting), that color will want to "change the world" or "keep the status quo". Gruul want to change Ravnica, but they would be much more accepting in Zendikar.
Onto your question, I think there are a couple of things that represent RUW wedge, but they're hard to create cards for: 1) Sports. Red's desire for action combined with (W/U)'s regulation. 2) Art. Can't be done without both intellect and passion. An artocratic society would have a W side to it, as to regulate and classify different types of arts.
White and Blue accept the world as it is? They create layers of technology and bureaucracy to protect themselves from the way the world is.
Idealism and opposition to the status quo are not the same thing. A desire to change the status quo may stem from an urge to accumulate power for oneself, in the knowledge that if one does not have the power to do unto others, others have the power to do unto him. It may stem from the knowledge that this way of life is unsustainable, that society is tampering with the natural order and must change course. These are not idealistic impulses, but realistic ones.
As for sports and art, such themes would make for great subthemes in a RWU world, but are far too narrow to build a world around.
A moralistic, intellectual society with manic undertones? That defines both steampunk and RWU perfectly.
Indeed, it does. It also describes a city, or ancient Athens. Which is exactly the point of my second post in this thread. The colors can be applied to many different worlds.
As for sports and art, such themes would make for great subthemes in a RWU world, but are far too narrow to build a world around.
I beg to differ. My RWU-focused sub-set is themed largely around the setting's focus on art. There's of course more to the flavor than that, but the primary theme of the world is art and I haven't found it narrow in the least. Quite the opposite, I've found it quite a deep source of flavor.
I can even see sports being similarly deep as a major flavor theme, why would you assume they're too narrow?
ETA: @foo - I didn't mean to posit meritocracy as a primary angle for RWU, I see it mostly as an extension of the primary value of idealism. It's the organizing of an ideal community through encouraging people to become their ideal selves. 'Idealism' is a concept that describes RWU well, 'meritocracy' is one way that idealist nature can manifest itself.
White and Blue accept the world as it is? They create layers of technology and bureaucracy to protect themselves from the way the world is.
I really like this color-pie endeavors.
The way I see it, (W/U), as the colors of inaction, represent stability. They may think about change, but they rarely act on it. Every color has it's ideals.
Idealism and opposition to the status quo are not the same thing. A desire to change the status quo may stem from an urge to accumulate power for oneself, in the knowledge that if one does not have the power to do unto others, others have the power to do unto him. It may stem from the knowledge that this way of life is unsustainable, that society is tampering with the natural order and must change course. These are not idealistic impulses, but realistic ones.
Exactly. But I still don't see why this is a RUW trait.
As for sports and art, such themes would make for great subthemes in a RWU world, but are far too narrow to build a world around.
Yes. That's why it's hard to find a theme. As someone mentioned, steampunk is a fitting environment. But as a mechanic theme that ties it all together, I don't know.
As for meritocracy, this is a (G/W) trait for me. Green is the color that focus most on the individual abilities, trait selection, etc. White would only provide the legal framework for this civilization.
My RUWshard is a social version of Jund. They have tyrants that, instead of devouring their subjects, they force them into submission and draw power from it.
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Yes. That's why it's hard to find a theme. As someone mentioned, steampunk is a fitting environment. But as a mechanic theme that ties it all together, I don't know.
I don't know, I don't find it particularly difficult to think of RWU-flavor for settings nor mechanical themes. The wedges aren't exceptionally well-explored so the obstacle for us is that we're not very used to it. A couple wedges (BGW and WBR in particular) have very clear mechanical space that's easy to fill flavor around (the graveyard and combat, respectively), but GUB, URG and RWU are all (to varying degrees) much more alien and harder to identify clear overlap (both in flavor as well as mechanics). Honestly, I had more trouble with GUB at first than RWU.
As for meritocracy, this is a (G/W) trait for me. Green is the color that focus most on the individual abilities, trait selection, etc. White would only provide the legal framework for this civilization.
But green believes in the individual simply being what it was born to be. It does not value the individual developing itself beyond that innate self. What you're born to be is what you should be, is a green trait. Having a passion that you feel strongly about and pursuing it is very red and seeking to perfect that passion (be it a talent or a sector of education, etc) beyond the capacity you may have been born with is quite blue in nature. White, as you said, provides the organizational structure to align individuals by merit to best support the overall society. Green may value talents and trait selection, but it does so based upon what you're born with, not what passions you love and develop on your own.
What sorts of mechanical identities and/or world designs do you think of when you think of RWU?
One of the major ideals that sticks out to me is the idea of Trancendence. A world devoid of Green or Black mana is one that is free from the trappings of the cycles of life and death. Immortality.
Mechanically, Equipment make sense, as RWU all have affinity for artifacts/equipment.
As far as world design, Efreet inhabited deserts, arabic overtones, a world taken with high ideals and virtue. Or highly futuristic steampunk time traveling society.
Phrases that come to mind: "Order out of Chaos". and :symr::symu: can be characterized as chaotic. Think Izzet. and :symu::symw: can be considered orderly. Think Azorius. The combining of these two elements could make for an interesting story plot involving this wedge.
Comment and Share your ideas of RWU as well.
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In a Shards of Alara style setting, I'd picture this shard as almost a Ravnica-like metropolis. The three colors would have a lot of artifacts, though in a much different way than Esper--vehicles and structures could be interesting for Urw. And law/order could be a major theme of the Wur aspects.
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Agreed. Actually, just yesterday I was considering a Fortification (sub)theme for RWU -- the word "art" pops up in RWU discussions like clockwork, and architecture is a good channel for that predilection. Not that Fortifications have a whole lot of design space.
Black and Green both accept the world as it is. What they mean by "the world as it is" may be very different, but Green seeks to preserve the natural order of the existing world, while Black seeks to do as well as it can in a world where everyone's in it for themselves. Green and Black are the colors of realism.
What is a world without realism? A world of ideals. Red believes that if everyone were free, the world would be a better place. White believes that if everyone would work together, the world would be a better place. Blue believes that if everyone would just apply the principles of rationality, the world would be a better place. Each color of RWU has an ideal vision of how the world should be, as opposed to Black and Green's acceptance of how the world is.
RWU is the wedge of Athens, of the Enlightenment, of the American and French Revolutions. It is the world made perfect by the power of ideals.
RWU
GUB
WBR
URG
BGW
This is no lie. Indeed, at least to me, Mister M was able to sum up in words what RWU is atleast in terms of identity on the color pie.
Recently I had been researching various forms of Ideals and Virtues, such as Transcendence and articles such as Being Virtuous: Benjamin Franklin's 13 Virtues of Life. These got me thinking about RWU as the color of high ideals.
To be captured in mechanical terms, Incarnations, such as the ones on Lorwyn would make sense. It would also be a good time to attempt to execute the "Creature turns into Enchantment" mechanic, such as the Ascendant cycle from Kamigawa, but perhaps using DFC's instead? Or a world of Knights that invoke the code of Chivalry conversely a Samurai nation that embraces Bushido.
Bant very well could have been the "Auras Shard", just as RWU could be the "Equipment Shard", but this is based upon mechanical themes given the description of RWU above, how do you think you would execute RWU's mechanics/and or world design from which the mechanic can be based upon?
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Creature control. Blue is the king of creature stealing, with Red getting it with temporary control. White has had this effect before, though mostly for nostalgicm reasons. ie: Evangelize. Nonetheless, White's ability to prevent creatures from interacting does give it a bleed into this territory.
Tapping/untapping and combat control: Preventing creatures from attacking and blocking is White. Preventing them from blocking is Red. Tapping and untapping, which can used to serve much the same function, are White/Blue and the stretch has been made to make tapping Red in rare instances (you could regard it is being a tertiary mechanic within the color).
Flying: red usually only gets Flying on Dragons, but it gets a fair share nonetheless. Flying is typical on small Blue and White creatures, so there's no doubt that this wedge could have a strong Flying subtheme of its creatures.
The biggest distance between them is that White and Blue are far more protective and defensive than Red. However, if you move this nature to defend oneself into a more offensive pattern, one dictacted by a mixture of tempo and removal, it runs closer to Red's tendencies of immediate, visceral reward.
These are strong ideas, as are Planeswalker's and Curious Thing's. What I take away from this thread is, there is no dearth of possible mechanical avenues for this wedge. However, picking your mechanics takes another step. Mechanics help to flesh out your world. So, what does your world look like?
Off the top of my head, I can come up with two very different ideas for a RWU world. Sigismund's suggestion of a Ravnica-style metropolis, and Curious Thing's reference to architecture, resonate with me. The cityscape's order plays up White's ideals of harmony and Blue's ideals of rationality, while its cosmopolitan nature allows for Red to realize its ideal of individuality.
And then there's an idea I got from my own prior post. Greece is a land of mountains, plains, and islands, and Athenian culture is a strong fit for the idealism of RWU. A Greek-style setting for this wedge could be quite compelling. I'm sure that, given time and some creative juices, other settings could be imagined.
RWU
GUB
WBR
URG
BGW
This is my usual take on the wedge, which was curious to realize at the time lined up so perfectly with nationalistic Americanism- at best, idealistic; at its worst, jingoistic.
I had planned to do a wedge set before Alara came and everyone did theirs. Anyway, my RWU wedge faction was an Athenian-like civilization, basically you can extrapolate the gist of the society from that. Every citizen was a mage, and they were supposed to prove their worth constantly in several arenas (figuratively), with each individual expected to be a politician, a warrior and a philosopher.
The reigning philosophy was: be the best you can be. The mage-citizens of the faction would be busy with in-fighting unless they perceived an external threat, where they would unite to vanquish it and return to their own quarreling.
The idea is that constant struggle makes you able to become a better version of yourself, and thus serve the group better. The blue ideal of cumulative knowledge, the white ideal of community and the red ideal of individualism are then folded together.
What types of major races come to mind then for each of these suggested settings?
Minotaurs like Zedruu would fit the greece/athenian style setting, Dwarfs and Humans seem like a solid go to for RWU as well. Perhaps even some Vedalken.
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Favorite Magic Card: Fowl Play
[Primer] [Barrin's Tome]: A Master Wizard's Spellbook.
Of course, there are an indefinite number of directions you can take this, which is one of the downsides to having the guilds of ravnica and the shards of alara be so popular. WotC did a great job in both of these sets of characterizing the color sections that many people get stuck to those identities, especially new players.
As a side note, I've always wanted to see the world Zedru comes from. It seems like it would be an interesting place.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
Couldn't agree more. Also to add to what Mister M had to say, I think based on definition, RWU could be considered the Virtue Wedge.
From Wikipedia: Virtue (Latin: virtus, Ancient Greek: ἀρετή "arete") is moral excellence. A virtue is a positive trait or quality deemed to be morally good and thus is valued as a foundation of principle and good moral being. Personal virtues are characteristics valued as promoting collective and individual greatness.
Avalon: The Legend Begins :: Pirate Set :: Babel: The Æther Wars
Favorite Magic Card: Fowl Play
[Primer] [Barrin's Tome]: A Master Wizard's Spellbook.
Taken further, I think RWU can exemplify meritocracy. I think the color combination would be very invested in the ideal that an individual's standing is only limited by his own talents, and those talents can be grown and perfected. It's about an individual being the best they can be and achieving higher social standing as a result (which in turn is best for both the individual and the community). The best rise up and no individual is restrained from bettering themselves. It's the development of a community by encouraging the personal betterment of the individuals that comprise the community.
I also strongly believe that RWU is the best opportunity to explore creativity as a major theme in red. Particularly through the emotional expression of art. It's very rarely been a thematic factor in card flavor (where red has traditionally been limited to its aggression and very physical forms of expression and warfare), but creativity is firmly within red's flavor as a color. And WU is a great team to help red explore that. White (which already has a very strong history with art's many forms) enjoys the structure and symbolism of art while blue appreciates understanding what constitutes quality in art and sees artistic talent as yet another trait to know fully and perfect. Red simply wants to share how it feels and experience what others are expressing as well. Blue's very into the form and talent involved, white is into the deeper meanings and the ordered nature of the process and red just wants to feel things fully and put those feelings out there for all to see. Of course, I'm a bit invested in this flavor as a branch of RWU.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
I think that's a bit too black for my liking. That might fit better in Esper - it probably does if you look at the underlying nature of its society rather than the superficial "OMG ARTIFACTS".
You got 99 attackers but I'm blocking with 1.
The Winner is Judge | 7
This Winner is Also Judge | 6
Club Flamingo | Lots
Only if you view it as ambition to be better than your peers for the sake of having that power over them. Which is the dark, selfish version of a meritocracy. I think, at its heart, meritocracy is about an individual working towards his personal best for its own sake and the society at large seeing the value in that. For the community to be its best, it needs all those within it functioning the best they can be in roles their talents/skills/knowledge makes them suited for. I get where you're coming from and I think you're right that WUB is the logical combination for the selfish, ambition-driven version of meritocracy, I just think that in its purest, noble form, meritocracy is a primarily RWU ideal. It's red's desire to be free to pursue its passion meets blue's pursuit of taking potential to its greatest limits meets white's fondness for organizing individuals to better the collective whole. I think the key difference between the RWU and WUB versions is one betters itself because it's truly something the individual feels strongly about and the other sees that betterment as but a means to an end (that end typically being more power or social clout).
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
"base" colour is trapped by its enemies. Shards were harmonious because they were governed by an allied colour, but wedges are the opposite. For example, the RWU wedge we designed was mostly covered by sea. Merfolk and Avian were the dominant tribes of the wedge, with goblins being put at a severe disadvantage in the world. They only had small islands for land, and had to make use of bridges and canoes in order to move around the world.
Lol, I couldn't disagree more. It looks like you've been thinking (maybe subconsciously) about american/french colors because of RUW, and got these "idealist" concepts.
Maybe U is the most idealist color, while (G/R) are the most pragmatic - but every color has it's ideals and it's practices. Idealism has nothing to do with RUW wedge.
(W/U) are more prone to accept the world as it is - not (G/B). In fact, (G/B) is (W/U)'s opposite pair. But every color can be more active/reactive to it's world in it's own way - blue might want to omniscience, black might want omnipotence, white might want equality, red might want absolute freedom, etc, etc. Depending on it's environment (if that color is on top in that particular setting), that color will want to "change the world" or "keep the status quo". Gruul want to change Ravnica, but they would be much more accepting in Zendikar.
Onto your question, I think there are a couple of things that represent RUW wedge, but they're hard to create cards for:
1) Sports. Red's desire for action combined with (W/U)'s regulation.
2) Art. Can't be done without both intellect and passion. An artocratic society would have a W side to it, as to regulate and classify different types of arts.
Nailed it in 1.
All of the other commentary on this thread - talking about the philosophy or milieu of the set - applies just fine. But steampunk really just captures all of these ideas as a total package.
A moralistic, intellectual society with manic undertones? That defines both steampunk and RWU perfectly.
White and Blue accept the world as it is? They create layers of technology and bureaucracy to protect themselves from the way the world is.
Idealism and opposition to the status quo are not the same thing. A desire to change the status quo may stem from an urge to accumulate power for oneself, in the knowledge that if one does not have the power to do unto others, others have the power to do unto him. It may stem from the knowledge that this way of life is unsustainable, that society is tampering with the natural order and must change course. These are not idealistic impulses, but realistic ones.
As for sports and art, such themes would make for great subthemes in a RWU world, but are far too narrow to build a world around.
Indeed, it does. It also describes a city, or ancient Athens. Which is exactly the point of my second post in this thread. The colors can be applied to many different worlds.
RWU
GUB
WBR
URG
BGW
ect; ect;
Avalon: The Legend Begins :: Pirate Set :: Babel: The Æther Wars
Favorite Magic Card: Fowl Play
[Primer] [Barrin's Tome]: A Master Wizard's Spellbook.
I beg to differ. My RWU-focused sub-set is themed largely around the setting's focus on art. There's of course more to the flavor than that, but the primary theme of the world is art and I haven't found it narrow in the least. Quite the opposite, I've found it quite a deep source of flavor.
I can even see sports being similarly deep as a major flavor theme, why would you assume they're too narrow?
ETA: @foo - I didn't mean to posit meritocracy as a primary angle for RWU, I see it mostly as an extension of the primary value of idealism. It's the organizing of an ideal community through encouraging people to become their ideal selves. 'Idealism' is a concept that describes RWU well, 'meritocracy' is one way that idealist nature can manifest itself.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
Charisma
Solidarity
Inspiration
EDIT: Also, liberté, égalité, fraternité.
I really like this color-pie endeavors.
The way I see it, (W/U), as the colors of inaction, represent stability. They may think about change, but they rarely act on it. Every color has it's ideals.
Exactly. But I still don't see why this is a RUW trait.
Yes. That's why it's hard to find a theme. As someone mentioned, steampunk is a fitting environment. But as a mechanic theme that ties it all together, I don't know.
As for meritocracy, this is a (G/W) trait for me. Green is the color that focus most on the individual abilities, trait selection, etc. White would only provide the legal framework for this civilization.
My RUW shard is a social version of Jund. They have tyrants that, instead of devouring their subjects, they force them into submission and draw power from it.
I don't know, I don't find it particularly difficult to think of RWU-flavor for settings nor mechanical themes. The wedges aren't exceptionally well-explored so the obstacle for us is that we're not very used to it. A couple wedges (BGW and WBR in particular) have very clear mechanical space that's easy to fill flavor around (the graveyard and combat, respectively), but GUB, URG and RWU are all (to varying degrees) much more alien and harder to identify clear overlap (both in flavor as well as mechanics). Honestly, I had more trouble with GUB at first than RWU.
But green believes in the individual simply being what it was born to be. It does not value the individual developing itself beyond that innate self. What you're born to be is what you should be, is a green trait. Having a passion that you feel strongly about and pursuing it is very red and seeking to perfect that passion (be it a talent or a sector of education, etc) beyond the capacity you may have been born with is quite blue in nature. White, as you said, provides the organizational structure to align individuals by merit to best support the overall society. Green may value talents and trait selection, but it does so based upon what you're born with, not what passions you love and develop on your own.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains