This is something that has been lurking in my head for quite some time. I've got a few templates lurking around, two of which I'm posting here below.
So the long story short, is that my current speculation is that AVR turns into this whole "Good vs. Evil" throwdown, where the primary protagonists and antagonists are, naturally, Avacyn+angels vs. Griselbrand+omgdemonseverywhere. At which point, it becomes all out war. Naturally, this leaves everyone else in the middle to choose sides. Which leads me to the below weirdness, both of which still have a number of issues to them but hopefully the basics I made clear:
Thraben Exarch (Common)
1WW or 3B
Creature - Human Cleric
[1WW]
2/2
When Thraben Exarch enters the battlefield, you gain 3 life.
[3B]
4/3
When Thraben Exarch enters the battlefield, you lose 1 life.
^ So basically, what you pay for is literally what you get. One issue at hand is how to avoid the obvious memory issue of "Which one did I pay for?" One-shot effects seemed like the quickest and easiest way around that, but does not allow for future growth or other nifty effects (or even abilities other than said one-shots). The list goes on. One thought on how to deal with that is the below method with a counter, which brings up leveler textboxes, basically, but the same overall theory.
Markov Sanguinator (Common)
1B
Creature - Vampire
Allegiance (This creature enters the battlefield with your choice of a light or dark counter on it.)
LIGHT> 1/1 Flying, lifelink
DARK> 2/1 Whenever Markov Sanguinator deals combat damage to a player, put a +1/+1 counter on it.
Multiple types of counters on a sngle permanent can get annoying and should be avoided. (dark and +1/+1)
Rather than "light counter" and "dark counter", make one use a counter and the other not, so a permanent can have a counter denoting either light or dark (your choice), then having no counter means it is the other.
Also, having a "default" no counter side fixes some rules issues. For example, markov sanguinator is in the graveyard. How big would a sutured ghoul be? assault // battery revealed by counterbalance is capable of countering a 1cc or 4cc spell, because assault // battery is BOTH a 1cc and 4cc spell. However, we cannot have a creature that is both 2/1 and 1/1 at the same time.
Split permanent (which this looks like, particularly thraben exarch) is like asking the MtG rules to divide by zero. Not even wizards does it, and I'm pretty sure it crossed their minds back then.
While I don't think this is realistic for Avacyn Restored (I don't think "light vs dark" is where the set is going) I do think this mechanic has potential.
K-rad's path takes you to the most realistic approach, where you'll basically have an alternate cost that puts a +1/+1 counter on something, then adds special bonuses based on wether or not it has that counter. It's simple in design but not execution, as text boxes will get crowded fast.
My first option would be to do it with DFC, but for the purpose of exercise we'll rule that out since we know there are no DFC in AVR.
Split cards are the next logical step, but like Mondu pointed out these have a whole suite of issues involved with them. We could turn a blind eye to them, but where the fun in that?
So where does that leave us... honestly I don't know. Without a new radical card frame, I'm stumped for a way to get this to work well.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
Twilight (As you cast this creature, you may choose to have it enter the battlefield with a twilight counter.)
[Regular Abilities]
[TWILIGHT> Other abilities]
It would have two small frames inside, not unlike level-up creatures.
"But, Fumar, wouldn't Twilight counters be confusing with so many +1/+1 counters in ISD/DKA?"
Same thing happened in ZEN/WWK (Allies being the counterpart to Vampires and Undying in this set) when ROE rolled in with all the level-up counters. I think it's doable.
I must be thinking too hard on "what ifs", because so far I've come up with nothing aside from the above weirdness. That said, have a bump based on those smexy angels+demon playmats while I continue to think-tank. The cryptic comment about "top down based on Helvault" has been eating at my processing power in the bad way, it seems. What, exactly, can you do with a theoretical "exile matters"?? I'm not coming up with too much aside from random silliness (see bottom). That said, have some random stuff on top of it:
Sunfire Angel (Rare?)
3RRW
Creature - Angel
4/3
Flying
Whenever Sunfire Angel attacks, it deals 2 damage to each creature defending player controls.
Reaper Angel (Rare?)
3WBB
Creature - Angel
2/4
Flying, deathtouch
Whenever Reaper Angel deals combat damage to a player, destroy target permanent that player controls.
Illuminant Angel (Rare?)
3WUU
Creature - Angel
2/4
Flying
If Illuminant Angel would deal combat damage to a player, you may draw that many cards instead.
Lifebinder Angel (Rare)
3GGW
Creature - Angel
4/5
Flying
You can't lose more than 5 life each turn. (Damage causes loss of life. You can't pay life if you've lost more than 5 this turn.)
And now for weirdness, one a repeat from another thread:
Angelic Warden (Rare)
4WW
Creature - Angel
3/4
Flying, vigilance
When Angelic Warden enters the battlefield, imprison target creature. (Exile that creature until this one leaves the battlefield. Imprisoned cards return under their owner's control.)
Defiant Prisoner
1W
Creature - Human Soldier
2/2
EXILE> At the beginning of your upkeep, you may gain 1 life.
^ That last bit basically means, "If this is in exile, this ability can happen." Basically, I'm envisioning this potential pile of yours in exile where you can see a textbox (always at the bottom of a card's rules text portion), so you can just plop your next card somewhat atop another while being able to keep track of everyone chilling out in exile. So it's a pseudo leveler rules textbox, in appearance, only with more room in all likelihood. It also combos with Helvault!!one
So the long story short, is that my current speculation is that AVR turns into this whole "Good vs. Evil" throwdown, where the primary protagonists and antagonists are, naturally, Avacyn+angels vs. Griselbrand+omgdemonseverywhere. At which point, it becomes all out war. Naturally, this leaves everyone else in the middle to choose sides. Which leads me to the below weirdness, both of which still have a number of issues to them but hopefully the basics I made clear:
Thraben Exarch (Common)
1WW or 3B
Creature - Human Cleric
[1WW]
2/2
When Thraben Exarch enters the battlefield, you gain 3 life.
[3B]
4/3
When Thraben Exarch enters the battlefield, you lose 1 life.
^ So basically, what you pay for is literally what you get. One issue at hand is how to avoid the obvious memory issue of "Which one did I pay for?" One-shot effects seemed like the quickest and easiest way around that, but does not allow for future growth or other nifty effects (or even abilities other than said one-shots). The list goes on. One thought on how to deal with that is the below method with a counter, which brings up leveler textboxes, basically, but the same overall theory.
Markov Sanguinator (Common)
1B
Creature - Vampire
Allegiance (This creature enters the battlefield with your choice of a light or dark counter on it.)
LIGHT> 1/1 Flying, lifelink
DARK> 2/1 Whenever Markov Sanguinator deals combat damage to a player, put a +1/+1 counter on it.
Past Ruminations
Links are broken, will fix in near future.
- Kaladesh
- Zendikar
- Rise of the Eldrazi
- Alara Reborn
- Innistrad <- Personal Favorite
- Dark Ascension
- Avacyn Restored
- Theros
- Return to Ravnica
- Tarkir
Rather than "light counter" and "dark counter", make one use a counter and the other not, so a permanent can have a counter denoting either light or dark (your choice), then having no counter means it is the other.
Also, having a "default" no counter side fixes some rules issues. For example, markov sanguinator is in the graveyard. How big would a sutured ghoul be? assault // battery revealed by counterbalance is capable of countering a 1cc or 4cc spell, because assault // battery is BOTH a 1cc and 4cc spell. However, we cannot have a creature that is both 2/1 and 1/1 at the same time.
Split permanent (which this looks like, particularly thraben exarch) is like asking the MtG rules to divide by zero. Not even wizards does it, and I'm pretty sure it crossed their minds back then.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Avalon: The Legend Begins :: Pirate Set :: Babel: The Æther Wars
Favorite Magic Card: Fowl Play
[Primer] [Barrin's Tome]: A Master Wizard's Spellbook.
K-rad's path takes you to the most realistic approach, where you'll basically have an alternate cost that puts a +1/+1 counter on something, then adds special bonuses based on wether or not it has that counter. It's simple in design but not execution, as text boxes will get crowded fast.
My first option would be to do it with DFC, but for the purpose of exercise we'll rule that out since we know there are no DFC in AVR.
Split cards are the next logical step, but like Mondu pointed out these have a whole suite of issues involved with them. We could turn a blind eye to them, but where the fun in that?
So where does that leave us... honestly I don't know. Without a new radical card frame, I'm stumped for a way to get this to work well.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
Twilight (As you cast this creature, you may choose to have it enter the battlefield with a twilight counter.)
[Regular Abilities]
[TWILIGHT> Other abilities]
It would have two small frames inside, not unlike level-up creatures.
"But, Fumar, wouldn't Twilight counters be confusing with so many +1/+1 counters in ISD/DKA?"
Same thing happened in ZEN/WWK (Allies being the counterpart to Vampires and Undying in this set) when ROE rolled in with all the level-up counters. I think it's doable.
Sunfire Angel (Rare?)
3RRW
Creature - Angel
4/3
Flying
Whenever Sunfire Angel attacks, it deals 2 damage to each creature defending player controls.
Reaper Angel (Rare?)
3WBB
Creature - Angel
2/4
Flying, deathtouch
Whenever Reaper Angel deals combat damage to a player, destroy target permanent that player controls.
Illuminant Angel (Rare?)
3WUU
Creature - Angel
2/4
Flying
If Illuminant Angel would deal combat damage to a player, you may draw that many cards instead.
Lifebinder Angel (Rare)
3GGW
Creature - Angel
4/5
Flying
You can't lose more than 5 life each turn. (Damage causes loss of life. You can't pay life if you've lost more than 5 this turn.)
^ Since we got Platinum Emperion... why not?!
And now for weirdness, one a repeat from another thread:
Angelic Warden (Rare)
4WW
Creature - Angel
3/4
Flying, vigilance
When Angelic Warden enters the battlefield, imprison target creature. (Exile that creature until this one leaves the battlefield. Imprisoned cards return under their owner's control.)
Defiant Prisoner
1W
Creature - Human Soldier
2/2
EXILE> At the beginning of your upkeep, you may gain 1 life.
^ That last bit basically means, "If this is in exile, this ability can happen." Basically, I'm envisioning this potential pile of yours in exile where you can see a textbox (always at the bottom of a card's rules text portion), so you can just plop your next card somewhat atop another while being able to keep track of everyone chilling out in exile. So it's a pseudo leveler rules textbox, in appearance, only with more room in all likelihood. It also combos with Helvault!!one
Past Ruminations
Links are broken, will fix in near future.
- Kaladesh
- Zendikar
- Rise of the Eldrazi
- Alara Reborn
- Innistrad <- Personal Favorite
- Dark Ascension
- Avacyn Restored
- Theros
- Return to Ravnica
- Tarkir