First off, an edited repost of the place I originally got this, with some edits, because I find myself wanting to expand on this idea, sorry if I bore.
Talakut Orcalon - Large and armored creatures that move very slow, but at the same time are very durable, they have exoskeletons that are several inches thick, and move along at a crawl and sectional, imagine a caterpillar, except with large stone-like blocks. They are... semi-intelligent, and besides the way they move, their shapes are somewhat varries, most having 4 legs.
Hammer-Foot Shaman3RR
Creature - Talakut Ocralon Shaman
Enters play tapped RR,t: Destroy target artifact. It can't be regenerated. Hammer-Foot Shaman doesn't untap during your next untap step
Slateshack Crawler2UU
Creature - Talakut Orcalon
~ Enters play tapped
Whenever ~This~ attacks, target attacking creature you control with less power then ~This~ is unblockable and gains shroud until end of turn, it doesn't untap during your next untap phase.
3/6
The whole idea were big bulky creatures that are a bit harder to kill, but in exchange, are slower, each one would only untap through spells or through their own ability, and there Toughness is almost always naturally higher then their attack. So one new one:
Graniteback Grappler2RRR
Creature - Talakut Orcalon Warrior
Trample
~ enters play tapped.
Whenever ~ is blocked, it gets +3/+0 until end of turn, then it doesn't untap during your next untap phase.
4/6
So any ideas to make them better, or cards like them, or any advice or comments at all would be appreciated.
Any relation to Valakut? If not, they need a new name to prevent confusion.
I think there's way too much stuff on each card trying to communicate the basic idea of "tough but slow." You get pretty much the same feel with a lot less text and a lot less in-game hassle if you just give them higher toughness and "enters the battlefield tapped" like a lot of Innistrad block's Zombies do.
Any relation to Valakut? If not, they need a new name to prevent confusion.
I think there's way too much stuff on each card trying to communicate the basic idea of "tough but slow." You get pretty much the same feel with a lot less text and a lot less in-game hassle if you just give them higher toughness and "enters the battlefield tapped" like a lot of Innistrad block's Zombies do.
Bah, I knew I messed that up, kk, back up creature type name possibility, Orcalon, good or bad?
And Ya... your probably right with that... I do have an idea for one more I forgot to add, kind of a joke one though:
Swift Crawler2R
Creature - (Type name)
Haste
2/4
Basic idea being that the only thing that makes it fast is it doesn't come with the drawback of the type...
Hammer-Foot Shaman3RR
Creature - Ocralon Shaman
Enters play tapped RR,t: Destroy target artifact. It can't be regenerated. Hammer-Foot Shaman doesn't untap during your next untap step
4/8
Slateshack Crawler2UU
Creature - Orcalon
~ Enters play tapped
Whenever ~This~ attacks, target attacking creature you control with less power then ~This~ is unblockable and gains shroud until end of turn, it doesn't untap during your next untap phase.
3/6
Graniteback Grappler2RRR
Creature - Orcalon Warrior
Trample
~ enters play tapped.
Whenever ~ is blocked, it gets +3/+0 until end of turn, then it doesn't untap during your next untap phase.
4/6
And
Swiftstone Crawler2R
Creature - Orcalon Warrior
Haste
~ attacks each turn if able.
2/4
You've got too many downsides. You can communicate the slowness of these guys by using either ETBT or doesn't untap. Both of them at once damages the 'felt' reaction of the cards unnecessarily (You read the latest Latest Developments article about undying?). This, I think, is an example of over-top-down-design, in which you add so much flavour to a card that either a) It makes it terrible or b) It makes it too complicated.
You could just slightly lower the power/toughness of them and cut the weaknesses a bit.
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If you're having creature problems I feel bad for you son
You got 99 attackers but I'm blocking with 1.
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Slateshack Crawler2UU
Creature - Orcalon
~ Enters play tapped
Whenever ~This~ attacks, target attacking creature you control with less power then ~This~ is unblockable and gains shroud until end of turn, it doesn't untap during your next untap phase.
3/6
A better design would be:
Slateshack Crawler2UU
Creature - Orcalon
Whenever ~This~ attacks, target attacking creature you control with less power then ~This~ is unblockable and gains shroud until end of turn, ~This~ doesn't untap during your next untap phase.
3/5
Hammer-Foot Shaman
Creature - Talakut Ocralon Shaman
Enters play tapped RR,T : Destroy target Artifact, if its a creature, it can't be regenerated, it doesn't untap during your next untap phase.
4/8
The comma splices and use of pronouns are making this effect very difficult to parse... why does it matter that the targeted artifact can't untap if it's being destroyed? Or does that last it mean the Shaman?
Is this wording what you meant?
Hammer-Foot Shaman enters the battlefield tapped.
RR,T : Destroy target artifact. It can't be regenerated. Hammer-Foot Shaman doesn't untap during your next untap step.
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I am no longer on MTGS staff, so please don't contact me asking me to do staff things. :|
The comma splices and use of pronouns are making this effect very difficult to parse... why does it matter that the targeted artifact can't untap if it's being destroyed? Or does that last it mean the Shaman?
Is this wording what you meant?
Hammer-Foot Shaman enters the battlefield tapped.
RR,T : Destroy target artifact. It can't be regenerated. Hammer-Foot Shaman doesn't untap during your next untap step.
Yes, that is the wording I meant, I spotted it before and by the time I went to fix the cards I had forgotten it, I can get so scatterbrained sometimes.
Ocralon is awkward and dyslexically similar to Orc. How about Arklon? Okalon? Rokalon?
You might just keyword it: Torpor (Whenever this creature becomes tapped, it doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step.)
Rushing Rokalon2R Creature - Rokalon Warrior (C)
Haste
Torpor (Whenever this creature becomes tapped, it doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step.)
2/4
Hammer-Foot Shaman3RR Creature - Rokalon Shaman (U) RR,T: Destroy target artifact. It can't be regenerated.
Torpor (Whenever this creature becomes tapped, it doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step.)
4/8
Then it rests whether it attacks or uses a T ability.
I don't mean to sound snobby, but for a lot of these cards i couldn't be bothered to read them, which is probably not something you want for a common creature type. Many of them have both an enter the battlefield and static ability, which is kind of a lot to read. (Also, things enter the battlefield now.)
I would say simplify them down to the most important thing mechanically and go from there. For instance, take the Skaabs from innistrad. Their mechanic is pretty wordy and can be confusing at first, which is why in the first set each card that has it had no or very few other abilities. (Makeshift Mauler, Stitched Drake, Skaab Goliath, etc.) This got the flavor across really well and got us to understand the ability. Then in DKA, they expanded on it, which makes cards like Headless Skaab easy to process even though it has two abilities.
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It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
- The creature type. "Ocralon" does not work. For one, it is quite close to Orc, Orca and Okra, which are things that I don't consider too relevant. The proposed "Rokalon" is hardly better, since it conjures an image of rock-based creatures in which case why are we moving away from "Elemental" or at worst, "Golem"? The physical description you included makes them closer to the Eldrazi - but those already have a flavor attached to them. My personal opinion is that these could be exploited as "Nephilim." The creature type is already there to describe massive creatures, so why not give it a tribal feeling already?
- "Torpor". Negative key-words have run out of fashion a long time ago. But as I've said, I like the idea of artificially increasing the value of untapping. This is why these two cards seem to me like a natural match:
Rushing Flayer2R Creature - Viashino Warrior (C)
Haste
Rushing Viggron attacks each turn if able. 2/4
Mogrron Relicbane3RR Creature - Nephilim Shaman (U) R,T: Destroy target artifact. It can't be regenerated.
Whenever Mogrron Relicbane becomes tapped, it doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step. 4/8
Hygrroth TrackerG Creature - Nephilim Scout (C)
Whenever Hygrroth Tracker becomes tapped, it doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step.
Sacrifice a land: Untap Hygrroth Tracker. 3/3
Dream Tribute3U Instant (C)
As an additional cost to cast Dream Tribute, tap an untapped creature you control.
Draw four cards and then discard two cards.
As you see, all of these cards - the torpor of the Nephilim, the "must attack" of the Viashino, the tapping requirement of the Tribute - make any card that could untap creatures very useful, or give them vigilance.
The only problem I see is that there is little incentive for the Relicbane to attack... the Tracker is aggressive, but the Relicbane seems very defenderish to me. Maybe if there was another set mechanic...
I see your points and I love the way you reworked all of them, but the whole idea behind the new creature type was to explain this unique creature type, as I described them in the first post.
I didn't realize they were similar to Eldrazi, but I was based off what I have seen on the cards, so I admittedly don't know as much about them. Honestly, in my mind, they are probably closest to the Nantuko in shape(but with upper torso more centralized over the 4 legs), except with much heavier exoskeletal armor and.. reptilian like heads, like a plated turtle head, beaked and everything... I realize now I could have described them better, and I apologize for that.
And I get what you were saying about the Defender why, so more then likely it would have to drop in power to maintain its naturally high defense.
Any suggestions for better creature type names would be helpful.
I would have no problem exploiting them, but they already have a... bizarre set up when it comes to there forms... *sigh* Maybe I should give up on this creatures, without the ability to show what they look like (having no art talent), I don't think I could ever be clear how they are unique...
Orcalon - Large and armored creatures that move very slow, but at the same time are very durable, they have exoskeletons that are several inches thick, and move along at a crawl and sectional, imagine a caterpillar, except with large stone-like blocks. They are... semi-intelligent, and besides the way they move, their shapes are somewhat varries, most having 4 legs.
Rereading the first post, except for the comment about four legs, the description could almost work for a race a Insect people. The varying shapes that you mention could be because of different class hierarchies: larvae, workers, warriors, and queens.
Yes, they were somewhat inspired by insects, also why in my more recent post I said reminiscent of Nantuko. So I guess somewhere between insects and reptiles is where the species lies.
Though the most powerful aren't queens, its the ancient ones, the ones that have been around the longest, they have remarkably long life spans, which actually comes from there ties to reptiles(turtles specifically)
Mentioning turtles makes me think of Giant Turtle...
Testudin Charger2R
Creature - Turtle Warrior (C)
Surge (This creature attacks if able, then can't attack during your next turn.)
2/4
Surge represents two abilities: "This creature attacks each turn if able" and "This creature can't attack if it attacked during your last turn."
Is that too complicated? It is less of a drawback since it can block during the turn that it recharges.
The whole idea were big bulky creatures that are a bit harder to kill, but in exchange, are slower, each one would only untap through spells or through their own ability, and there Toughness is almost always naturally higher then their attack. So one new one:
Graniteback Grappler 2RRR
Creature -
TalakutOrcalon WarriorTrample
~ enters play tapped.
Whenever ~ is blocked, it gets +3/+0 until end of turn, then it doesn't untap during your next untap phase.
4/6
So any ideas to make them better, or cards like them, or any advice or comments at all would be appreciated.
Artist: //gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&artist=[%22Daniel%20Ljunggren%22">"]Daniel Ljunggren
I think there's way too much stuff on each card trying to communicate the basic idea of "tough but slow." You get pretty much the same feel with a lot less text and a lot less in-game hassle if you just give them higher toughness and "enters the battlefield tapped" like a lot of Innistrad block's Zombies do.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
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Bah, I knew I messed that up, kk, back up creature type name possibility, Orcalon, good or bad?
And Ya... your probably right with that... I do have an idea for one more I forgot to add, kind of a joke one though:
Swift Crawler 2R
Creature - (Type name)
Haste
2/4
Basic idea being that the only thing that makes it fast is it doesn't come with the drawback of the type...
I suppose, the idea has been used before, but the idea was that was the theme behind them.
Artist: //gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&artist=[%22Daniel%20Ljunggren%22">"]Daniel Ljunggren
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Hammer-Foot Shaman 3RR
Creature - Ocralon Shaman
Enters play tapped
RR,t: Destroy target artifact. It can't be regenerated. Hammer-Foot Shaman doesn't untap during your next untap step
4/8
Slateshack Crawler 2UU
Creature - Orcalon
~ Enters play tapped
Whenever ~This~ attacks, target attacking creature you control with less power then ~This~ is unblockable and gains shroud until end of turn, it doesn't untap during your next untap phase.
3/6
Graniteback Grappler 2RRR
Creature - Orcalon Warrior
Trample
~ enters play tapped.
Whenever ~ is blocked, it gets +3/+0 until end of turn, then it doesn't untap during your next untap phase.
4/6
And
Swiftstone Crawler 2R
Creature - Orcalon Warrior
Haste
~ attacks each turn if able.
2/4
Slightly reworked its name as well, better?
Artist: //gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&artist=[%22Daniel%20Ljunggren%22">"]Daniel Ljunggren
You could just slightly lower the power/toughness of them and cut the weaknesses a bit.
You got 99 attackers but I'm blocking with 1.
The Winner is Judge | 7
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Club Flamingo | Lots
Slateshack Crawler 2UU
Creature - Orcalon
~ Enters play tapped
Whenever ~This~ attacks, target attacking creature you control with less power then ~This~ is unblockable and gains shroud until end of turn, it doesn't untap during your next untap phase.
3/6
A better design would be:
Slateshack Crawler 2UU
Creature - Orcalon
Whenever ~This~ attacks, target attacking creature you control with less power then ~This~ is unblockable and gains shroud until end of turn, ~This~ doesn't untap during your next untap phase.
3/5
Or something like that?
Artist: //gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&artist=[%22Daniel%20Ljunggren%22">"]Daniel Ljunggren
I feel the design is interesting enough and it would make untapping spells and abilities much more useful.
The comma splices and use of pronouns are making this effect very difficult to parse... why does it matter that the targeted artifact can't untap if it's being destroyed? Or does that last it mean the Shaman?
Is this wording what you meant?
RR,T : Destroy target artifact. It can't be regenerated. Hammer-Foot Shaman doesn't untap during your next untap step.
Thank you, and ya, I couldn't imagine Orcalon's being a very... wide spread set.
Yes, that is the wording I meant, I spotted it before and by the time I went to fix the cards I had forgotten it, I can get so scatterbrained sometimes.
Artist: //gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&artist=[%22Daniel%20Ljunggren%22">"]Daniel Ljunggren
Artist: //gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&artist=[%22Daniel%20Ljunggren%22">"]Daniel Ljunggren
You might just keyword it: Torpor (Whenever this creature becomes tapped, it doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step.)
Rushing Rokalon 2R
Creature - Rokalon Warrior (C)
Haste
Torpor (Whenever this creature becomes tapped, it doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step.)
2/4
Hammer-Foot Shaman 3RR
Creature - Rokalon Shaman (U)
RR,T: Destroy target artifact. It can't be regenerated.
Torpor (Whenever this creature becomes tapped, it doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step.)
4/8
Then it rests whether it attacks or uses a T ability.
I would say simplify them down to the most important thing mechanically and go from there. For instance, take the Skaabs from innistrad. Their mechanic is pretty wordy and can be confusing at first, which is why in the first set each card that has it had no or very few other abilities. (Makeshift Mauler, Stitched Drake, Skaab Goliath, etc.) This got the flavor across really well and got us to understand the ability. Then in DKA, they expanded on it, which makes cards like Headless Skaab easy to process even though it has two abilities.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
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A Good Place to Start Designing
- The creature type. "Ocralon" does not work. For one, it is quite close to Orc, Orca and Okra, which are things that I don't consider too relevant. The proposed "Rokalon" is hardly better, since it conjures an image of rock-based creatures in which case why are we moving away from "Elemental" or at worst, "Golem"? The physical description you included makes them closer to the Eldrazi - but those already have a flavor attached to them. My personal opinion is that these could be exploited as "Nephilim." The creature type is already there to describe massive creatures, so why not give it a tribal feeling already?
- "Torpor". Negative key-words have run out of fashion a long time ago. But as I've said, I like the idea of artificially increasing the value of untapping. This is why these two cards seem to me like a natural match:
Rushing Flayer 2R
Creature - Viashino Warrior (C)
Haste
Rushing Viggron attacks each turn if able.
2/4
Mogrron Relicbane 3RR
Creature - Nephilim Shaman (U)
R,T: Destroy target artifact. It can't be regenerated.
Whenever Mogrron Relicbane becomes tapped, it doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step.
4/8
Hygrroth Tracker G
Creature - Nephilim Scout (C)
Whenever Hygrroth Tracker becomes tapped, it doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step.
Sacrifice a land: Untap Hygrroth Tracker.
3/3
Dream Tribute 3U
Instant (C)
As an additional cost to cast Dream Tribute, tap an untapped creature you control.
Draw four cards and then discard two cards.
As you see, all of these cards - the torpor of the Nephilim, the "must attack" of the Viashino, the tapping requirement of the Tribute - make any card that could untap creatures very useful, or give them vigilance.
The only problem I see is that there is little incentive for the Relicbane to attack... the Tracker is aggressive, but the Relicbane seems very defenderish to me. Maybe if there was another set mechanic...
I didn't realize they were similar to Eldrazi, but I was based off what I have seen on the cards, so I admittedly don't know as much about them. Honestly, in my mind, they are probably closest to the Nantuko in shape(but with upper torso more centralized over the 4 legs), except with much heavier exoskeletal armor and.. reptilian like heads, like a plated turtle head, beaked and everything... I realize now I could have described them better, and I apologize for that.
And I get what you were saying about the Defender why, so more then likely it would have to drop in power to maintain its naturally high defense.
Any suggestions for better creature type names would be helpful.
Artist: //gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&artist=[%22Daniel%20Ljunggren%22">"]Daniel Ljunggren
Artist: //gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&artist=[%22Daniel%20Ljunggren%22">"]Daniel Ljunggren
Rereading the first post, except for the comment about four legs, the description could almost work for a race a Insect people. The varying shapes that you mention could be because of different class hierarchies: larvae, workers, warriors, and queens.
Though the most powerful aren't queens, its the ancient ones, the ones that have been around the longest, they have remarkably long life spans, which actually comes from there ties to reptiles(turtles specifically)
Artist: //gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&artist=[%22Daniel%20Ljunggren%22">"]Daniel Ljunggren
Testudin Charger 2R
Creature - Turtle Warrior (C)
Surge (This creature attacks if able, then can't attack during your next turn.)
2/4
Surge represents two abilities: "This creature attacks each turn if able" and "This creature can't attack if it attacked during your last turn."
Is that too complicated? It is less of a drawback since it can block during the turn that it recharges.
... heh... Turtle Warrior... I could see the creatures somehow being hyper-evolved turtles now
Artist: //gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&artist=[%22Daniel%20Ljunggren%22">"]Daniel Ljunggren