A 0 mana 1/1 is pretty worthless...the only place it could find in any constructed deck I can think of is glimpse elves in extended so you draw cards for 0 mana. But even ornithopter isn't played in that deck for free card draw. I think that 0 mana creatures would have to have some good ability like ornithopter (flying in ornithopters case) or you could have a 0 mana 1/2 that's vanilla because it's still pretty bad. Creatures in general with 1 power have to have some ability for them to be useful like llanowar elves.
Also a llanowar elves with haste would be a pretty good creature IMO cause playing a llanowar elves and heritage druid turn 1 is pretty solid.
The artifact part doesn't really scare me except in vintage where moxen can become inkwell leviathan's or can be utilized very well by goblin welder for a sundering titan
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
You know what, LSK? I think they should print it. It's not game-breaking, it's very innovative, it's flavorful, and I would definitely play it. Heck, I LOVE Ornithopter.
Llanowar Elf is super good anyway, why the hell should it need haste ? and what makes you think haste is good for green and especially a 1 drop mana creature ?
An idea could be to go for an multicolor elf like that:
Burning Elfs RG
Creature - Elf, Elemental, Druid (U)
Haste T: Add R or G to your manapoo.
2/2
Thats for sure a push allready, its solid mana acceleration for a beat down deck, and Rhada is something that worked out pretty good too (especially with burn spells, a Morphed Akroma and all that kind of effects).
Also a llanowar elves with haste would be a pretty good creature IMO cause playing a llanowar elves and heritage druid turn 1 is pretty solid.
Llanowar Elves with haste would be problematic. I'd give green a one cost 1/1 with haste for sure, but throw on the ability to tap to repay its cost immediately then you have a free 1/1 and also acceleration. I don't see they ever making a strictly better Llanowar Elf, but they have made some things that are situationally better. I mean, Noble Hierarch can make three colors of mana and also attack for 1 if you need it, and has an extra toughness when doing so. In an Exalted deck it gets even better compared to Llanny but it wasn't irresponsible. A haste Llanowar Elves would let you pull off the occasional turn two 3-4 cost card, and that kind of speed is unnecessary. I agree with AdoniS that a single quick 5 cost creature doesn't clench the game for you and niether would a few free 1/1's, but the combination of the two would suck to run up against.
My main problem with a 0 1/1 is that it can fit into any color deck. I would much prefer cards with actual mana costs and some sort of cost reduction or alternate cost.
Fast Free DudeR
Creature -- Goblin Warrior
CARDNAME costs R less to cast during your first turn of the game.
1/1
Alternate DudeW
Creature -- Human Soldier
You may tap an untapped white creature you control rather than pay CARDNAME's mana cost.
1/1
Painful DudeB
Creature -- Zombie
If you control a Swamp, you may pay [2-3?] life rather than pay CARDNAME's mana cost.
1/1
I was think of of the cards like Lashknife, but sure... Convoke works too.
EDIT: oh... checking the autocard, I see that Lashknife doesn't care about the color of the creature, just that you control a Plains. Meh. Either way works.
A 1/1 for 0 should be simple and elegant. If you tack on extra drawbacks to try to "balance it out," you shouldn't be making a 1/1 for 0 in the first place.
First of all, it can't be an artifact. There's already enough of those running around.
Second, for the sake of flavor (and mechanics, really) it should either be white or red. White because it fits mechanically with the weenie mentality and red because it can be flavorful (ie: Kobolds.) Being able to fit into any color deck doesn't really matter--this will not cause mono-blue decks to dominate limited.
Speaking of limited, assuming we go the simple route and don't try to "balance it out," it would have to be an uncommon for the sake of limited where it could potentially be drafted in multiples. Making it common would, without a doubt, skew limited in a big way.
As far as constructed goes, there was some concern about dropping 4 of these and an Elite Vanguard on turn 1, making for an explosive turn 2. That set up requires six specific cards and really only matters on turn 1. Furthermore, the odds of that actually happening consistently are not significant enough to consider that situation an actual threat. Not to mention with all the mass removal running around, such over-extension would be foolish and easily dealt with within a turn or two, generating serious card advantage for the opponent. In short, being able to play more than one of these a turn is completely negligible.
I would suggest this:
Minikin0
Creature - Whatever U
Minikin is white.
1/1
I don't see how in the world that could be broken.
Asking out a girl is like trying to cast a first turn Necropotence. Sometimes the other player will have the Force of Will to say no. You shouldn't let that stop you from trying it.
This is from the Vaults of Hybrid Theory, one of the more interesting threads I remember. It's pretty much what Silvercut was suggesting but with a provision to keep you from playing a full handful or whatever. It received mixed reviews, but that was two years ago.
The Littlest Robot0
Artifact Creature - Construct
If ~ comes into play, you may not play any other creature spells until the end of turn.
1/1
Baby BearG
Creature - Bear
You may discard a green card from your hand rather than play ~'s mana cost.
1/1
Or the following cycle of creatures:
Whatever (1W/1U/1B/1R/1G)
You may discard a (enchantment/artifact/instant/sorcery/creature) rather than pay ~'s mana cost.
2/1 or 1/2 or 2/2
I think a 1/1 for 0 is appropriate in current design space, because it avoids all of the issues of previous sets.
As an artifact creature, it would be insane only in the context of Mirrodin. Or perhaps it would be played in a block with storm, but presently, it's fine - though personally I think it's not the most interesting card, and it serves the purpose of bettering, or at least sustaining, swarm/aggro/rush.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Never ever create a card without taking the extra minute to double check it.
Technically that wouldn't be free, but only technically. I've seen enough turn one Frogmites that I don't see what harm adding a 1/1 to that club could do. Some decks even turned down their free 2/2's, so I don't see how the "cheaper" 1/1 would be different.
A 1/1 for 0 should be simple and elegant. If you tack on extra drawbacks to try to "balance it out," you shouldn't be making a 1/1 for 0 in the first place.
First of all, it can't be an artifact. There's already enough of those running around.
Second, for the sake of flavor (and mechanics, really) it should either be white or red. White because it fits mechanically with the weenie mentality and red because it can be flavorful (ie: Kobolds.) Being able to fit into any color deck doesn't really matter--this will not cause mono-blue decks to dominate limited.
Speaking of limited, assuming we go the simple route and don't try to "balance it out," it would have to be an uncommon for the sake of limited where it could potentially be drafted in multiples. Making it common would, without a doubt, skew limited in a big way.
As far as constructed goes, there was some concern about dropping 4 of these and an Elite Vanguard on turn 1, making for an explosive turn 2. That set up requires six specific cards and really only matters on turn 1. Furthermore, the odds of that actually happening consistently are not significant enough to consider that situation an actual threat. Not to mention with all the mass removal running around, such over-extension would be foolish and easily dealt with within a turn or two, generating serious card advantage for the opponent. In short, being able to play more than one of these a turn is completely negligible.
I would suggest this:
Minikin0
Creature - Whatever U
Minikin is white.
1/1
I don't see how in the world that could be broken.
I agree with you entirely, and would hope further that if they did this, the creature type would not be significant. The whole point is to focus on the free 1/1, not dilute it with other goodies. So I would say no Soldier, or Kithkin, or *gasp* Sliver. My suggestion would be Human Scout.
Battalion Lookout
Creature - Human Scout (Uncommon)
Battalion Lookout is white
1/1
It is possible to have a *Gasp* colorless nonartifact creature. The most common token of that sort is Spirit, or Shapeshifter with Changeling, but I think it's best to avoid tribal games with power tribes like Elf, Goblin, and so forth. I think a 0 cost 1/1 Spirit creature could be good, especially with Spiritcraft etc. Heck, you could even give cards Soulshift 0 and there would be something it could get back. An other alternative is to have it have no creature type, like Nameless Race. If the flavor seems off, keep in mind you would have the whole text box to dedicate to flavor text. If you do make it colored, I'd make it a red Kobold just for precedent.
After reading the thread and thinking about it, I think the card as suggested would be fine.
Reasoning:
1. In affinity, what card(s) would they take out to have another random beater. It's only a +1/+1 counter to Ravanger and possibly that 4th artifact to get Frogmite into play. Are they really going to give up slots for one of those two situations?
When I initially made the card Cloudstone Curio for Ravnica, lead developer Brian Schneider pointed out that the easiest combo with the card in Standard was two Ornithopters and a Soul Warden, which resulted in infinite life. To solve that problem, I suggested adding the “nonartifact” clause, which not only headed off the Ornithopter combo, but also any double-Mox infinite mana shenanigans that might have happened in Vintage.
Imagine that with Storm in Extended (Grapeshot/Empty the Warrens, etc).
3. Tinker/Storm in Vintage. I doubt a 1/1 for 0 is going to shake up the environment. It's the same arguement as Affinity: what are you going to remove? Remember that whole worry that Street Wraith was going to allow combo decks to run 4 fewer cards and people were going to cycle for what they want? How did that turn out? Not a Force of Will or Duress/Thoughtsieze.
4. It can't be an important creature type. Not Elf, not Soldier, not goblin, clearly not Sliver. It has to be something where it can't conceivably go into a certain deck and only that deck.
Here's a mockup of what the card should be.
I know it can be hard to tell, but the expansion symbol is silver (uncommon). I don't have the M10 logo on this computer.
[Buddy the Elf?] (0)
Creature - Elf Scout 1/1
This is green.
When you control no other creatures, sacrifice [CARDNAME].
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Originally Posted by Zsehaelax:
halo hunter can never kill baneslayer angel
Originally Posted by Jace, the Mindsculptor: 2/17
Oracle Rules text on Halo hunter from Gatherer:
When Halo Hunter enters the battlefield, destroy target Angel.
BSA is an angel, is it not??
Originally Posted by Zsehaelax:
Oracle Rules text on Baneslayer Angel:
"Protection from Demons" means the following:
Baneslayer Angel can't be targeted by abilities from sources with the creature type Demon"
Unnecessary necro there. But really, just a free 1/1 is probably safe. If you want it just for Emperor Crocodile, and still want to use that as a benchmark for that matter, then you want Ornithopter. You would find a lot of aggro decks avoiding without adding a drawback. I mean, how would you feel if Bloodbraid Elf gave you a 1/1 with no text? Disappointed, I should say.
I can see why this is somewhat problematic as an artifact. I don't think making it red helps much either. If anything, a creature like this should be "white" - requiring a plains in play perhaps?
Otherwise, no, no problem with this. 2/1 for W is now uncommon, 8/8s with two relevant abilities cost 6, and Shock has been obsoleted in two consecutive sets. StP is more or less back, black creature kill is better than it ever has been in magic's history. Basically, any creature and any creature kill spell could be printed right now without being out of context. I feel like I'm only barely overstating things.
Peperono - your version turns it into an entirely different card. It's almost like a Defense Grid variant, one that would be really evil if it could be put into play on an opponent's turn.
What do 8/8 creatures have to do with this? What does Shock and Lightning Bolt have to do with this? It has been discussed in the previous pages, and giving such a creature a color makes it more powerful. If white, it would be fed by Crusade and like effects. As an artifact it is subject to the most removal and feeds the least stratagies in standard. Beyond standard a free 1/1 is not irrelevant but hardly earthshattering. As an artifact, it's best use after turn two would be to chump block intimidate creatures, so it is hardly better than Ornithopter in that regard.
for some reason when i saw this thread on the top of the first page, i clicked it and all I saw was the first page of comments. 8/8 creatures have exactly as much "to do with this" as emperor crocodile does. my response was to those page 1 comments, so sorry, but here goes:
my point referencing lightning bolt should have been obvious by what I said - creature kill is at an all-time high in power level. so a "free" 1/1 is quite fine. that was what I meant. I only mentioned terra stomper and the 2/1 for W to elaborate on this fact - that creatures can get away with being insanely good these days. Do you see now? creatures are really good these days. creature kill is really good these days. therefore, a 1/1 for 0, which might have been scary at some point in the past, is probably actually ok these days. or like i said above, "no problem with this."
regardless of crusade, white is the color of strong weenies. not artifact, and certainly not red. which is what some posts on the first page had suggested this be. I think people were more worried about giving EVERY color a free 1/1. I didn't think anyone was worried about white weenie comboing this with crusade.
if a free 1/1 is hardly earthshattering, then fine, my post changes nothing, and this thread isn't even a big deal at all. but clearly the point was that a 1/1 for 0 mana was kinda a big deal, at least something to get people thinking.
Also a llanowar elves with haste would be a pretty good creature IMO cause playing a llanowar elves and heritage druid turn 1 is pretty solid.
The artifact part doesn't really scare me except in vintage where moxen can become inkwell leviathan's or can be utilized very well by goblin welder for a sundering titan
Currently Playing:
Retired
An idea could be to go for an multicolor elf like that:
Burning Elfs RG
Creature - Elf, Elemental, Druid (U)
Haste
T: Add R or G to your manapoo.
2/2
Thats for sure a push allready, its solid mana acceleration for a beat down deck, and Rhada is something that worked out pretty good too (especially with burn spells, a Morphed Akroma and all that kind of effects).
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
Llanowar Elves with haste would be problematic. I'd give green a one cost 1/1 with haste for sure, but throw on the ability to tap to repay its cost immediately then you have a free 1/1 and also acceleration. I don't see they ever making a strictly better Llanowar Elf, but they have made some things that are situationally better. I mean, Noble Hierarch can make three colors of mana and also attack for 1 if you need it, and has an extra toughness when doing so. In an Exalted deck it gets even better compared to Llanny but it wasn't irresponsible. A haste Llanowar Elves would let you pull off the occasional turn two 3-4 cost card, and that kind of speed is unnecessary. I agree with AdoniS that a single quick 5 cost creature doesn't clench the game for you and niether would a few free 1/1's, but the combination of the two would suck to run up against.
Fast Free Dude R
Creature -- Goblin Warrior
CARDNAME costs R less to cast during your first turn of the game.
1/1
Alternate Dude W
Creature -- Human Soldier
You may tap an untapped white creature you control rather than pay CARDNAME's mana cost.
1/1
Painful Dude B
Creature -- Zombie
If you control a Swamp, you may pay [2-3?] life rather than pay CARDNAME's mana cost.
1/1
Llanowar Elves couldn't have haste. However, considering Gemhide Sliver, I think something like Druid of the Anima could be possible with haste.
Convoke?
I was think of of the cards like Lashknife, but sure... Convoke works too.
EDIT: oh... checking the autocard, I see that Lashknife doesn't care about the color of the creature, just that you control a Plains. Meh. Either way works.
First of all, it can't be an artifact. There's already enough of those running around.
Second, for the sake of flavor (and mechanics, really) it should either be white or red. White because it fits mechanically with the weenie mentality and red because it can be flavorful (ie: Kobolds.) Being able to fit into any color deck doesn't really matter--this will not cause mono-blue decks to dominate limited.
Speaking of limited, assuming we go the simple route and don't try to "balance it out," it would have to be an uncommon for the sake of limited where it could potentially be drafted in multiples. Making it common would, without a doubt, skew limited in a big way.
As far as constructed goes, there was some concern about dropping 4 of these and an Elite Vanguard on turn 1, making for an explosive turn 2. That set up requires six specific cards and really only matters on turn 1. Furthermore, the odds of that actually happening consistently are not significant enough to consider that situation an actual threat. Not to mention with all the mass removal running around, such over-extension would be foolish and easily dealt with within a turn or two, generating serious card advantage for the opponent. In short, being able to play more than one of these a turn is completely negligible.
I would suggest this:
Minikin 0
Creature - Whatever U
Minikin is white.
1/1
I don't see how in the world that could be broken.
Level 1 DCI Judge
Check out my Commons Cube.
Artifact Creature - Construct
If ~ comes into play, you may not play any other creature spells until the end of turn.
1/1
Baby Bear G
Creature - Bear
You may discard a green card from your hand rather than play ~'s mana cost.
1/1
Or the following cycle of creatures:
Whatever (1W/1U/1B/1R/1G)
You may discard a (enchantment/artifact/instant/sorcery/creature) rather than pay ~'s mana cost.
2/1 or 1/2 or 2/2
As an artifact creature, it would be insane only in the context of Mirrodin. Or perhaps it would be played in a block with storm, but presently, it's fine - though personally I think it's not the most interesting card, and it serves the purpose of bettering, or at least sustaining, swarm/aggro/rush.
It'd probably cost 2 and have affinity...
I agree with you entirely, and would hope further that if they did this, the creature type would not be significant. The whole point is to focus on the free 1/1, not dilute it with other goodies. So I would say no Soldier, or Kithkin, or *gasp* Sliver. My suggestion would be Human Scout.
Battalion Lookout
Creature - Human Scout (Uncommon)
Battalion Lookout is white
1/1
Reasoning:
1. In affinity, what card(s) would they take out to have another random beater. It's only a +1/+1 counter to Ravanger and possibly that 4th artifact to get Frogmite into play. Are they really going to give up slots for one of those two situations?
2. Cloudstone Curio. Aaron Forsythe already said a Kobolds can't be printed.
Imagine that with Storm in Extended (Grapeshot/Empty the Warrens, etc).
3. Tinker/Storm in Vintage. I doubt a 1/1 for 0 is going to shake up the environment. It's the same arguement as Affinity: what are you going to remove? Remember that whole worry that Street Wraith was going to allow combo decks to run 4 fewer cards and people were going to cycle for what they want? How did that turn out? Not a Force of Will or Duress/Thoughtsieze.
4. It can't be an important creature type. Not Elf, not Soldier, not goblin, clearly not Sliver. It has to be something where it can't conceivably go into a certain deck and only that deck.
Here's a mockup of what the card should be.
I know it can be hard to tell, but the expansion symbol is silver (uncommon). I don't have the M10 logo on this computer.
GatheringMagic.com Commander Writer
Twitter: @mtgcolorpie
One of the GDS2 Final 101
Recently Written Posts:
1-31 MTGCP The Complete Commander - Designing Commander
12-18 MTGCP The Day Kibler Shut Down the World
Not out of context, no, but I feel like if Affinity could take off just that much faster, Mirrodin could've been a bit more scary.
I also use Gorilla Shaman in casual and multiplayer, so I don't have a rough time with affinity. 1 cost LD is pretty punishing.
Think Emperor Crocodile.
[Buddy the Elf?] (0)
Creature - Elf Scout 1/1
This is green.
When you control no other creatures, sacrifice [CARDNAME].
halo hunter can never kill baneslayer angel
Originally Posted by Jace, the Mindsculptor: 2/17
Oracle Rules text on Halo hunter from Gatherer:
When Halo Hunter enters the battlefield, destroy target Angel.
BSA is an angel, is it not??
Originally Posted by Zsehaelax:
Oracle Rules text on Baneslayer Angel:
"Protection from Demons" means the following:
Baneslayer Angel can't be targeted by abilities from sources with the creature type Demon"
pwnt
Otherwise, no, no problem with this. 2/1 for W is now uncommon, 8/8s with two relevant abilities cost 6, and Shock has been obsoleted in two consecutive sets. StP is more or less back, black creature kill is better than it ever has been in magic's history. Basically, any creature and any creature kill spell could be printed right now without being out of context. I feel like I'm only barely overstating things.
Peperono - your version turns it into an entirely different card. It's almost like a Defense Grid variant, one that would be really evil if it could be put into play on an opponent's turn.
my point referencing lightning bolt should have been obvious by what I said - creature kill is at an all-time high in power level. so a "free" 1/1 is quite fine. that was what I meant. I only mentioned terra stomper and the 2/1 for W to elaborate on this fact - that creatures can get away with being insanely good these days. Do you see now? creatures are really good these days. creature kill is really good these days. therefore, a 1/1 for 0, which might have been scary at some point in the past, is probably actually ok these days. or like i said above, "no problem with this."
regardless of crusade, white is the color of strong weenies. not artifact, and certainly not red. which is what some posts on the first page had suggested this be. I think people were more worried about giving EVERY color a free 1/1. I didn't think anyone was worried about white weenie comboing this with crusade.
if a free 1/1 is hardly earthshattering, then fine, my post changes nothing, and this thread isn't even a big deal at all. but clearly the point was that a 1/1 for 0 mana was kinda a big deal, at least something to get people thinking.