Alright, so everyone know the interaction of turning a Planeswalker into a creature, right? It's not too messy, but if it gets dealt damage, loyalty counters drop off. Also, lethal damage kills it. So, what I'm toying with costing is a "Battle Planeswalker."
Edit: Added, " It's still a Planeswalker."
???1G
Planeswalker - ???
+2: ??? becomes a 2/2 elf warrior with haste until end of turn. It's still a Planeswalker.
+0: ??? becomes a 4/4 bear druid with trample until end of turn. It's still a Planeswalker.
-4: ??? becomes a 8/8 elemental with trample and shroud until end of turn. It's still a Planeswalker.
1
I'm having difficulty costing it because of how awkward the loyalty counter interaction is. For example;
+2 for a 2/2 is fine. Haste lets it hit first turn, but it balances itself; If the Planeswalker takes 2 damage, it dies, and if it takes 1, it negates the ability.
+0 is rough. I tried this at various costs, and a lot of them seem like a bit much. You have to keep in mind, essentially this lets you make a 4/*, where * is the number of loyalty counters on the Planeswalker. In this case, turn 3 you can swing with a 4/3, but it loses steam fast. I mean, if it connects with a player, that's great, but it can't really deal with 1/1s being thrown in the way.
-4 seems alright. In this case, if you hit with a 2/2 on turn 2 and 3, turn four you get to dump something huge. The downside is that nearly every color (all but green, and even then, it has some) has an answer to this Planeswalker, especially while taking on a fragile creature form. So, it changes into a steamroller, barrels through for a good chunk of damage, but will almost never survive.
Questions? Comments? Mostly I'm worried about balance, I figure the flavor will come later.
I don't like this idea, Planeswalkers are wizards, or better yet entities that have powers beyond imagination, some have the ability to start and end life as they wish...Wile this looks more like a standard druid....
I'm not saying that I dislike the idea of a battling planeswalker but something more like....
[??? v2.0] :1mana::symg::symg:
Planeswalker - [??? v2.0]
+1: ~ becomes a creature with power and toughness equal to the number of loyalty counters on it until end of turn.
-1: Untap two target creatures.
-6: ???
3
That still enables it to participate in combat, and starts as a 4/4 for 3 mana so isn't too bad....
Another example: Sehraan :3mana::symr::symr:
Planeswalker - Sehraan
+2: Target creature gets +3/+0 and gains haste until end of turn.
-3: Destroy all artifacts.
-4: ~ becomes a 6/6 red Dragon creature with flying and ':symr:: ~ gets +1/+0 until end of turn.' until end of turn.
4
The first one is pretty bad though, and here's why;
Let's say you make it a 4/4 on turn four (since it doesn't have haste.) Your 4/4 is blocked by, let's say, a 2/2? Combat damage resolves, you slaughter the 2/2 and only take 2 damage. Except the damage is loyalty counter damage, and your Planeswalker shrinks to a 2/2. Now it dies - simply put, making it a */* really makes it a */(*/2), which isn't very green.
And yes, I agree that I don't technically want every single one of the abilities to be the ability to change into a creature, but I'm toying with putting this on multiple cards, so the first design of mine functions more or less as a tool of three abilities, rather than a "complete aesthetic card."
Edit: Z explained the "grizzly" truth before me. Sarnath'd!
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Never ever create a card without taking the extra minute to double check it.
Why would it still be a planeswalker, I'm not completely awake at the moment, but at the time you activate it's ability I believe it stops beïng a planeswalker UEOT, the ability grants the card new characteristics, that's why manlands mention it will 'remain a land', this would prevent it from losing loyalty counters to beïng blocked by a say....Grizzly Bear...
At least that's the way I can fix it out of the rulings for licids, the closest thing I could find to this ability in changing characteristics....didn't plow through the comp. rules yet...
If it becomes a nonplaneswalker creature, it still has all of its abilities, but they are no longer bound by the planeswalker's rules, "Only once each turn, only as a sorcery." This means you could go infinite if you don't write the text right. This takes more text. Planeswalkers don't have all that much room for their abilities. Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker has, I think, the longest ability. I'm not sure. [Edit: Nope, I think now Tezzeret has the longest ability.]
If it stays a planeswalker, then yes, damage dealt to it removes loyalty. You probably don't want that.
That said, I could definately see a big green planeswalker that still craves the adrenaline of battle.
Garruk the Brutal 4BGG
Planeswalker - Garruk {[3]}
x2: Until end of turn, Garruk the Brutal becomes an indestructible 0/0 Beast creature with haste and all counters on it are +1/+1 counters.
-2: Garruk the Brutal deals 3 damage to target creature or player. Put a 3/3 black and green Beast creature token into play.
-10: Search your hand, graveyard, and/or library for a creature card and put it into play. If you searched your library, shuffle it.
At least the explanation makes clear that there should be an "in addition to its types" or "It's still a planeswalker" somewhere.
And really: Would you want a planswalker to become a nonplaneswalker creature and be able to play all its abilities any number of times?
Mhmm, that was my concern with making it no longer a Planeswalker (unless it says, "And loses all other abilities" but that's not much different than "It's still a Planeswalker."
Thanks for pointing that out though, I was so caught up in the smaller details that I forget about the simple big ones. Yes, the cards should remain Planeswalkers.
Alright, so assuming they remain Planeswalkers - I figure that yes, Pharmalade, it's not convenient that loyalty counters fall off when the Planeswalker takes damage, but rather than making it a whole jumble of words (yuck!) I could just work the design around that. Basically, make the creatures worth your while, even with the loss of loyalty counters - hence, my original pitch, do those abilities work?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Never ever create a card without taking the extra minute to double check it.
Yes, the abilities work, so long as there is at least one Loyalty counter left. The math works.
All of the abilities being so similar doesn't really make it all that engaging, but yes, they work.
Alright, that's all I wanted to know. (What you missed in my above post is that this isn't a card, it's a Planeswalker with three separate abilities used mostly to test power level. They'd never all appear on the same Planeswalker, that would be boring.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Never ever create a card without taking the extra minute to double check it.
[??? v2.0] :1mana::symg::symg:
Planeswalker - [??? v2.0]
+1: ~ loses all abilities and becomes a creature with power and toughness equal to the number of loyalty counters on it until end of turn.
-1: Untap two target creatures.
-5: Search your library for a land card of each basic land type and put them into play. Then shuffle your library.
3
Another example: Sehraan :3mana::symr::symr:
Planeswalker - Sehraan
+2: Target creature gets +3/+0 and gains haste until end of turn.
-3: Destroy all artifacts.
-4: ~ loses all abilities and becomes a 6/6 red Dragon creature with flying and ':symr:: ~ gets +1/+0 until end of turn.' until end of turn.
4
Edit: Added, " It's still a Planeswalker."
??? 1G
Planeswalker - ???
+2: ??? becomes a 2/2 elf warrior with haste until end of turn. It's still a Planeswalker.
+0: ??? becomes a 4/4 bear druid with trample until end of turn. It's still a Planeswalker.
-4: ??? becomes a 8/8 elemental with trample and shroud until end of turn. It's still a Planeswalker.
1
I'm having difficulty costing it because of how awkward the loyalty counter interaction is. For example;
+2 for a 2/2 is fine. Haste lets it hit first turn, but it balances itself; If the Planeswalker takes 2 damage, it dies, and if it takes 1, it negates the ability.
+0 is rough. I tried this at various costs, and a lot of them seem like a bit much. You have to keep in mind, essentially this lets you make a 4/*, where * is the number of loyalty counters on the Planeswalker. In this case, turn 3 you can swing with a 4/3, but it loses steam fast. I mean, if it connects with a player, that's great, but it can't really deal with 1/1s being thrown in the way.
-4 seems alright. In this case, if you hit with a 2/2 on turn 2 and 3, turn four you get to dump something huge. The downside is that nearly every color (all but green, and even then, it has some) has an answer to this Planeswalker, especially while taking on a fragile creature form. So, it changes into a steamroller, barrels through for a good chunk of damage, but will almost never survive.
Questions? Comments? Mostly I'm worried about balance, I figure the flavor will come later.
I'm not saying that I dislike the idea of a battling planeswalker but something more like....
[??? v2.0] :1mana::symg::symg:
Planeswalker - [??? v2.0]
+1: ~ becomes a creature with power and toughness equal to the number of loyalty counters on it until end of turn.
-1: Untap two target creatures.
-6: ???
3
That still enables it to participate in combat, and starts as a 4/4 for 3 mana so isn't too bad....
Another example:
Sehraan :3mana::symr::symr:
Planeswalker - Sehraan
+2: Target creature gets +3/+0 and gains haste until end of turn.
-3: Destroy all artifacts.
-4: ~ becomes a 6/6 red Dragon creature with flying and ':symr:: ~ gets +1/+0 until end of turn.' until end of turn.
4
As a wise man once said - "A true emperor shouldn't fear a one-man army, it's the one woman behind the emperor' the emperor should fear."
The Official Magic The Gathering Card Database
Let's say you make it a 4/4 on turn four (since it doesn't have haste.) Your 4/4 is blocked by, let's say, a 2/2? Combat damage resolves, you slaughter the 2/2 and only take 2 damage. Except the damage is loyalty counter damage, and your Planeswalker shrinks to a 2/2. Now it dies - simply put, making it a */* really makes it a */(*/2), which isn't very green.
And yes, I agree that I don't technically want every single one of the abilities to be the ability to change into a creature, but I'm toying with putting this on multiple cards, so the first design of mine functions more or less as a tool of three abilities, rather than a "complete aesthetic card."
Edit: Z explained the "grizzly" truth before me. Sarnath'd!
At least that's the way I can fix it out of the rulings for licids, the closest thing I could find to this ability in changing characteristics....didn't plow through the comp. rules yet...
As a wise man once said - "A true emperor shouldn't fear a one-man army, it's the one woman behind the emperor' the emperor should fear."
The Official Magic The Gathering Card Database
If it becomes a nonplaneswalker creature, it still has all of its abilities, but they are no longer bound by the planeswalker's rules, "Only once each turn, only as a sorcery." This means you could go infinite if you don't write the text right. This takes more text. Planeswalkers don't have all that much room for their abilities. Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker has, I think, the longest ability. I'm not sure. [Edit: Nope, I think now Tezzeret has the longest ability.]
If it stays a planeswalker, then yes, damage dealt to it removes loyalty. You probably don't want that.
That said, I could definately see a big green planeswalker that still craves the adrenaline of battle.
Garruk the Brutal 4BGG
Planeswalker - Garruk {[3]}
x2: Until end of turn, Garruk the Brutal becomes an indestructible 0/0 Beast creature with haste and all counters on it are +1/+1 counters.
-2: Garruk the Brutal deals 3 damage to target creature or player. Put a 3/3 black and green Beast creature token into play.
-10: Search your hand, graveyard, and/or library for a creature card and put it into play. If you searched your library, shuffle it.
Banner by Topher!
Mhmm, that was my concern with making it no longer a Planeswalker (unless it says, "And loses all other abilities" but that's not much different than "It's still a Planeswalker."
Thanks for pointing that out though, I was so caught up in the smaller details that I forget about the simple big ones. Yes, the cards should remain Planeswalkers.
Alright, so assuming they remain Planeswalkers - I figure that yes, Pharmalade, it's not convenient that loyalty counters fall off when the Planeswalker takes damage, but rather than making it a whole jumble of words (yuck!) I could just work the design around that. Basically, make the creatures worth your while, even with the loss of loyalty counters - hence, my original pitch, do those abilities work?
All of the abilities being so similar doesn't really make it all that engaging, but yes, they work.
Banner by Topher!
Alright, that's all I wanted to know. (What you missed in my above post is that this isn't a card, it's a Planeswalker with three separate abilities used mostly to test power level. They'd never all appear on the same Planeswalker, that would be boring.
Yea, forgot those lines...
Just a little fix on both of my suggested creatures
just examples
As a wise man once said - "A true emperor shouldn't fear a one-man army, it's the one woman behind the emperor' the emperor should fear."
The Official Magic The Gathering Card Database