Players
Iso (Team Team Team)
Rhand (Team Cassandra)
Azrael (Feral Octegenarians)
Game Rules
Each game has two town players and one mafia player.
Roles have been distributed completely randomly, so the alignments of one game have no bearing on any other.
There is no flavour or character names.
Play consists of one Day phase with a standard majority (2) lynch.
Town wins if they lynch the mafia. The mafia wins if they don't.
When a faction in a game wins, each team whose player in that game is a part of that faction gains a point.
The team with the most points at the end of the three games wins. Ties will not be broken.
Day will last for seven real life days.
If the deadline hits without a lynch ocurring, all teams receive a loss for that game.
No funny business, like deliberately making an invalild vote (e.g. breaking bold tags or mispelling names).
Teams may talk freely and discuss all three games within their designated QTs or MTGS PMs. Please do not use other channels since the content of team's chats is valuable data.
You may NOT directly quote messages from your QT into a game thread - so other players cannot write your posts for you.
Feedback is encouraged at any point. The more we have, the better the full version of the competition will be!
Role PMs are going out now. Everyone please confirm by PM. The games will start once everyone has confirmed.
Rules Update: Following MafiaScum's lead, teams are forbidden from suggesting (implicitly or excplitly) that any member of their team might not be town. This means you cannot, for example, claim that your team recevied any scum role PMs.
I hope there is no guide to scumread me lol. I try to keep my meta the same as both alignments.
The only thing I really struggle with as scum is taking control of the gamestate, which I try to do naturally as town.
Why ask one of us the town guide and the other the scum guide? Why not both the same?
The Azrael/KJ/Kpaca team is called "Feral Octegenarians".
I have been asked about mentioning the other games, so I'm again going to defer to MafiaScum:
1. There are no restrictions for what players can post in their QT's outside of not breaking site rules. The rules for this section refer to what players can talk about in their ongoing games.
2. Players are only allowed to talk about mod-confirmed things from other ongoing Team Mafia games.
EXAMPLES OF THINGS THAT ARE ALLOWED
Stating who is on what team (NOT faction).
Stating what Day or Night another game is in.
Stating how many players are left alive on a team (NOT faction).
Stating how many town or scum are alive in another game.
Stating whether a dead player in another game has flipped town or scum.
3. Any public speculation about other ongoing games is prohibited.
4. Any attempt to publically signal players from other ongoing games, pass messages to players from other games, or otherwise communicate through the use of cryptography is prohibited.
5. Do not try to loophole these rules. If anyone has questions at any point about what is allowed or not allowed please message me.
So basically you may comment on public, mod confirmed information in the other games but you may not attempt to communicate with another game or publically influence it.
I don’t know how to townread me, because I’ve seen so few people do it correctly in the past. I thought about starting toDay with a vote to clear someone else, but didn’t want to risk not being around to remove it in the event that I saw someone checking the thread to try to entrap scum.
We can’t RVS, and there’s really not a lot that I rely on to catch scum that I can utilize, here.
I currently think Az is scummier than Rhand, FWIW.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I hope there is no guide to scumread me lol. I try to keep my meta the same as both alignments.
The only thing I really struggle with as scum is taking control of the gamestate, which I try to do naturally as town.
Why ask one of us the town guide and the other the scum guide? Why not both the same?
Because I can generally recognize most town metas, but my last three games have wagoned Iso halfway to death before I flip my read and get a good, solid town-read on him. Been significantly better at POE than directly reading difficult slots. So if you had any actually legitimate info on your scum game for me, that would have been pretty helpful as far as reading your slot. Because probably the best way for me to win the game is to read you, rather than Iso. I know it's not me, so all I have to do is town-clear one more person. But for the best possible town-read, I need to know what does or does not match with the town-clear.
In other words, I didn't really expect Iso to have a solid answer for me. But I hoped that you would, because I imagine with my past history with Iso your slot would be significantly easier for me to read correctly and easily, than his will be, and from that I could infer alignments for each of you. Savvy?
I don’t know how to townread me, because I’ve seen so few people do it correctly in the past. I thought about starting toDay with a vote to clear someone else, but didn’t want to risk not being around to remove it in the event that I saw someone checking the thread to try to entrap scum.
We can’t RVS, and there’s really not a lot that I rely on to catch scum that I can utilize, here.
I currently think Az is scummier than Rhand, FWIW.
Who says we can't RVS? *arches eyebrow* The whole game can be RVS, if we want it to be. Or just straight analysis. There are no rules. Except for the rules, of course.
Don't see how your vote gambit actually clears someone, rather than just ends the game or is pointless? I mean, if there's someone else here, and you picked wrong, the game is over. If there's no one else here but you and the person you voted, no one is cleared...
And surely your game isn't THAT dependent on probable team interactions, is it? You've had plenty of games where you can rando-zap someone from the RVS stage based on OPs alone. Why downplay your abilities here?
*insert obligatory scummier because I'm the scum claim, here*
You'll note the "V" in "RVS" stands for "Voting". Given that, it's extremely difficult to have an RVS without the defining trait of such a stage, that namely being "Random Voting". As such, that, and lack of poor or nervous voting justification (primarily due to lack of voting) significantly neuters me.
The vote gambit involves voting for one player (obviously). If the other player posts without hammering, they're confirmed town, because there's no reason scum shouldn't end the game right there. That effectively makes the other player an IC, meaning the odds of winning the game for the town get a significant bump.
...of course, the other 50% of the time, the town instaloses because the player that didn't get voted is scum, so it's a bit of a wash.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Basically, I didn't think Az would pretend not to understand my statement about starting the game with a vote and why that would confirm somebody, and then tell kpaca to do the same thing.
Also, the "I totally expected bad answers from you guys!" thing was completely disingenuous and felt like posturing. Not to mention the "busywork for the sake of looking busy" stuff he's been doing. I can feel the intent behind Az's mindset, and he's looking for an opening.
I think it would be anticlimactic if you don't let Az and I battle it out to convince you one way or the other, Rhand, but this case is pretty airtight insofar as 1-Day games go.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Apparently we are
I noticed the same with Kpaca, and am baffled Az even made that argument. I am leaning very strongly towards lynching Az and might have done the vote thing if you weren’t first. Which is another thing in your favor.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Apparently we are
I noticed the same with Kpaca, and am baffled Az even made that argument. I am leaning very strongly towards lynching Az and might have done the vote thing if you weren’t first. Which is another thing in your favor.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'd say "paranoia's good" but that'd be a lie as it could cause us not to win. I'd also try to convince you to just vote Az with me, but again, I think giving him a fair shake is more honorable and at least gives this game some bit (which I admit is very uncharacteristic for me, but it's not going to be a very long game, so why not enjoy it while we can?).
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'll be asleep in probably an hour and a half, and will likely be checking the game in ~13 hours again, in case you guys want to do some realtime interactions with me.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
First off, I haven't read a word of the other threads bc my life is wonderful insanity atm, second off, I was not "expecting" to receive crappy answers and have no idea where you got that from, and third, your gambit is still pointless to "clear" someone for you, if you were townie, which apparently, you are not. It's not clearing, it's just deciding the game one way or another, if you're town. If you're scum, which you are, it's picking who you want to convince to manipulate into voting the other person early, and going all in on that.
Still working, so fuller explanation will have to come later. But Rhand, think through the logic of what his vote "proves" to you, versus how it doesn't prove anything to him, but does risk the game. IDK what the hell Kpaca is up to or doing in his game, haven't read the QT since a day or two ago either, but if Iso saw something and thought it was a good gambit, you know it's probably catastrophic for the town, no matter what Iso's alignment is supposed to be.
Anyways, since Rhand is clearly not the scum or is epicly slow-rolling us, vote... Huh. I wonder if there's any strategic benefit for Rhand to not close out the game early based on the game structure...? Hrmm. I think not, given how the rules work? I mean, at least not something very direct. Ehhh. Ok. Vote: Iso. Logic dictates this decision is sound and correct but still seems so incredibly loose to vote this early in a three-man lylo.
Ok, first concern after going through the other threads and reading the rules is that I'm pretty sure what we're talking about is directly against Eco's rules. He did not say we're allowed to talk about all public information, he said all public, MOD CONFIRMED information. So yes, I'd be happy to explain the conversation I had with Kpaca, but I have direct knowledge of his alignment. And then the players in Kpaca's game would have details about what/why we talked about, from which much info could be gained. So you've kind of put me in an impossible position there, Iso, where I can't explain what happened without blowing up two games at once. Not sure how to deal with that, since both you and Rhand are prepared to end the game over a case I literally am not allowed to discuss. So that sucks, because it's really not hard to explain aside from the rule.
Also, if your case is based upon the play of my teammates in other games more generally...that's also not something any of us can talk about legitimately.
What I can talk about is that early voting does not give a town player the ability to make a more intelligent decision. It forecloses it.
A townie who votes early has effectively ended their information phase in a meaningful sense. If they were right, yes, they know they were right, but if they were wrong, they lost the game. It's information in the same sense that lynching someone is "information". But the point of information is to use it to inform yourself and make intelligent decisions BEFORE pushing all your chips in on the table. Not afterwards. The information gained does not assist the voter in making the correct vote.
I suppose it *might* provide information to the third-party not involved in the situation IF the game does not end immediately in town loss, because the way that players read and respond to that gambit DOES create information and provoke behavioral reactions. But for a town player, it's one hell of a gamble that causes you to sacrifice any other source of information prior to committing to a read, and frankly, I don't think it's at all a smart thing to do from a town perspective. Ugh, this is a crappy situation, that I can't go into more detail.
Anyways, Iso being reckless is nothing new under either alignment. So I'm not going to tell you that this isn't something I could have foreseen us all facepalming @ a townie Iso in the post-game for doing the same thing into an instant loss. That's totally in his wheelhouse. But it is absolutely a smarter play as scum, and there's great lines of play in support of doing what he's doing from an emotional manipulation standpoint. You commit to one particular target to undermine, you create an emotional bond because they now *know* that you're a good townie too (which they did before they voted, but hey, details are for suckers when you can put on a good show), and you always look better as the aggressor rather than the defender. It makes great work out of all those psychological edges. So, kudos to him for that, whether or not he methodically thought through all those aspects beforehand or not (he didn't, but he's got good instincts and that's just as good sometimes).
As far as things we're legitimately allowed to talk about, obviously there's not a ton of info for you to look at this early. A few posts from each of us. There's not much there except some cheap misrep from Iso, and this gambit that you could see from either alignment. So I guess I'm kind of banking that you talk this out enough to read me and pick up on my town tells, because otherwise we might be kind of screwed on outs if Iso just does his standard unreasonable, poorly explained confidence bit that he does under either alignment. And that makes him a tough guy to get a legit read on, because that's not a hard pattern of behavior for him to reproduce under either alignment.
Me, though, I have one strong advantage here. I'm not a tough townie read. I'm someone who people usually can look at, talk to enough, and they can get a good solid read on where I'm coming from on a behavioral standpoint. Either as scum or town, I'm far more of an open book than Iso. Maybe to expand on that, I think my two playstyles are far more markedly different, so anyone who's familiar with my meta has a pretty ok shot of picking up a good read, whereas Iso's style falls into similar patterns under either alignment. I think the question is going to be less who has the more convincing scum case, and more who is the most evident townie. Or at least, I think that's your best shot of getting this right, for whatever that's worth to you.
So, if you have questions for me that the mod will allow me to answer, fire away. I'm here, and I'll just talk until you feel you got enough of a read to sort this out.
Your entire post reads of damage control. I'm skeptical about your claim that you don't know what kpaca's doing after he blatantly said he cleared it with you, first. With regards to the crappy answers,
Quote from Azrael »
In other words, I didn't really expect Iso to have a solid answer for me.
With regards to the gambit thing, I find it disingenuous that you would suggest that it's catastrophic for the town after okaying kpaca to do it. I have more to say on this but I don't think I'm allowed to per the game influence rule, so I've opted to simply pass it on to my teammates via QT.
Your slow vote is painfully fake and obviously scum. Like...the only reason scumRhand would have not to hammer you immediately is to troll us, and at that point, we've already lost. The only possible angle you could have here is to try to hope I'll switch my vote to Rhand or to somehow seem skeptical and townie, neither of which really occurred.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Your entire post reads of damage control. I'm skeptical about your claim that you don't know what kpaca's doing after he blatantly said he cleared it with you, first. With regards to the crappy answers,
With regards to the gambit thing, I find it disingenuous that you would suggest that it's catastrophic for the town after okaying kpaca to do it. I have more to say on this but I don't think I'm allowed to per the game influence rule, so I've opted to simply pass it on to my teammates via QT.
Dude. You already know I can't respond to this. Quit trying to tempt me into disproving your case. Not cool, man.
My opinion is my opinion. I didn't change it at any point. If you think that's inconsistent with something else you saw, fine. But I can't clear that up for Rhand, so that's a pretty low blow, man.
Quote from Iso »
Your slow vote is painfully fake and obviously scum. Like...the only reason scumRhand would have not to hammer you immediately is to troll us, and at that point, we've already lost. The only possible angle you could have here is to try to hope I'll switch my vote to Rhand or to somehow seem skeptical and townie, neither of which really occurred.
In short, get lynched.
Rhand, would you like to do the honors?
Pushing that mislynch a little strong and quick, aren't we?
The only explanation? Hardly. Unlike you, Iso, I am as methodical as a glacier. We both have playstyles that work well for us, but mine is based on thinking through every scenario I can imagine, slowly, carefully, and from as many angles as I can contrive to imagine. So no, casting a deciding vote this early in the day under ANY circumstances seriously rubs against my grain, and I am CERTAINLY going to think it through before doing something that could cause my team to lose the game. And I am going to advise any player who shares my alignment to exercise the same care and patience that I apply in my own work.
What I can talk about is that early voting does not give a town player the ability to make a more intelligent decision. It forecloses it.
A townie who votes early has effectively ended their information phase in a meaningful sense. If they were right, yes, they know they were right, but if they were wrong, they lost the game. It's information in the same sense that lynching someone is "information". But the point of information is to use it to inform yourself and make intelligent decisions BEFORE pushing all your chips in on the table. Not afterwards. The information gained does not assist the voter in making the correct vote.
I suppose it *might* provide information to the third-party not involved in the situation IF the game does not end immediately in town loss, because the way that players read and respond to that gambit DOES create information and provoke behavioral reactions. But for a town player, it's one hell of a gamble that causes you to sacrifice any other source of information prior to committing to a read, and frankly, I don't think it's at all a smart thing to do from a town perspective. Ugh, this is a crappy situation, that I can't go into more detail.
See, this is funny, because it's putting down the very tactic that outed you as scum. The problem with this post is that you're trying to make me look bad on a premise that is faulty that still worked. To which information sources are you referring that we've cut off? Your ability to make Rhand look bad? Boohoo. Suck it up - this is an uphill battle for you, and you know it. It's like you're saying, "Well, I know that you can cut vegetables with a knife, but I prefer a mandoline because it's more uniform, pretty, and precise, even though you got exactly the same results more efficiently by using your knife. And you should feel bad for that."
You're attacking my methodology without disputing the findings. In short, this is fluff and completely irrelevant to the overall state of the game other than to mischaracterize me.
When you do get around to pushing back, we have this:
Quote from Azrael »
Anyways, Iso being reckless is nothing new under either alignment. So I'm not going to tell you that this isn't something I could have foreseen us all facepalming @ a townie Iso in the post-game for doing the same thing into an instant loss. That's totally in his wheelhouse. But it is absolutely a smarter play as scum, and there's great lines of play in support of doing what he's doing from an emotional manipulation standpoint. You commit to one particular target to undermine, you create an emotional bond because they now *know* that you're a good townie too (which they did before they voted, but hey, details are for suckers when you can put on a good show), and you always look better as the aggressor rather than the defender. It makes great work out of all those psychological edges. So, kudos to him for that, whether or not he methodically thought through all those aspects beforehand or not (he didn't, but he's got good instincts and that's just as good sometimes).
Character assassination. Attempting to make me look bad, like a villain, etc.; all of this can be summarized as "yo Iso take some ad hom!" Again, it's not actually addressing the argument, but rather, attempting to make me look like an unreliable source of information in addition to questioning my methodology. More fluff.
Quote from Azrael »
As far as things we're legitimately allowed to talk about, obviously there's not a ton of info for you to look at this early. A few posts from each of us. There's not much there except some cheap misrep from Iso, and this gambit that you could see from either alignment. So I guess I'm kind of banking that you talk this out enough to read me and pick up on my town tells, because otherwise we might be kind of screwed on outs if Iso just does his standard unreasonable, poorly explained confidence bit that he does under either alignment. And that makes him a tough guy to get a legit read on, because that's not a hard pattern of behavior for him to reproduce under either alignment.
"Well, there's not a lot going on here except Iso's cheap shot lololo but you can totally figure this game out, Rhand!" This is a really neat psychological tactic - it villainizes me as misrepping, unreasonable, overconfident, and possibly scum as a result, but puts alleged confidence in Rhand, appealing to his pride and sense of reason in the sense that you're trying to get Rhand to work with you.
Finally, Az tries to make himself seem like a reasonable party:
Quote from Azrael »
Me, though, I have one strong advantage here. I'm not a tough townie read. I'm someone who people usually can look at, talk to enough, and they can get a good solid read on where I'm coming from on a behavioral standpoint. Either as scum or town, I'm far more of an open book than Iso. Maybe to expand on that, I think my two playstyles are far more markedly different, so anyone who's familiar with my meta has a pretty ok shot of picking up a good read, whereas Iso's style falls into similar patterns under either alignment. I think the question is going to be less who has the more convincing scum case, and more who is the most evident townie. Or at least, I think that's your best shot of getting this right, for whatever that's worth to you.
So, if you have questions for me that the mod will allow me to answer, fire away. I'm here, and I'll just talk until you feel you got enough of a read to sort this out.
After previously humbling yourself - "oh gee, I sure hope you can figure out this game, Rhand!" - you then boost yourself up to slightly below the level you put him on, making yourself attempt to seem like someone who has a small amount of confidence but not enough to try to dwarf the inflamed sense of ego you attempted to bestow upon Rhand, which, let's be honest, is a total misrepresentation of the way you feel about the way you play Mafia.
-
All in all, this is a really dirty scum essay because of the way you've written it to appeal to Rhand and, while I applaud you on your efforts, it's very transparent.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
The only explanation? Hardly. Unlike you, Iso, I am as methodical as a glacier. We both have playstyles that work well for us, but mine is based on thinking through every scenario I can imagine, slowly, carefully, and from as many angles as I can contrive to imagine. So no, casting a deciding vote this early in the day under ANY circumstances seriously rubs against my grain, and I am CERTAINLY going to think it through before doing something that could cause my team to lose the game. And I am going to advise any player who shares my alignment to exercise the same care and patience that I apply in my own work.
Ah, here we go - there's that pride. Thank you for highlighting the dissonance in your mindset for me.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
See, this is funny, because it's putting down the very tactic that outed you as scum.
Full stop right there. I'm not scum, I'm not outed, AND YOU KNOW THAT. Trying to pretend that your little stunt was anything more than window dressing for Rhand is BS. It proves nothing to Rhand except that you think he's an easier mark than me.
How does your gambit prove your alignment to Rhand, Iso? I'll sit down with a good book while you try to BS your way through that one. Sheesh. Talk about overplaying your gambit.
Quote from Iso »
The problem with this post is that you're trying to make me look bad on a premise that is faulty that still worked. To which information sources are you referring that we've cut off? Your ability to make Rhand look bad? Boohoo. Suck it up - this is an uphill battle for you, and you know it. It's like you're saying, "Well, I know that you can cut vegetables with a knife, but I prefer a mandoline because it's more uniform, pretty, and precise, even though you got exactly the same results more efficiently by using your knife. And you should feel bad for that."
You're attacking my methodology without disputing the findings. In short, this is fluff and completely irrelevant to the overall state of the game other than to mischaracterize me.
Because your "gambit" which provided zero actionable info to anyone "proves"...what again?
Well, it "proves" is that you're a gambler under either alignment, which we all knew before we came in.
It also proves you wanted to show Rhand how much you "trusted" him. Because you're hoping that your "trust", of someone whose alignment you already knew, will go both ways. Nevermind that there was no leap of faith involved whatsoever, because you're just scum.
Doesn't prove a thing other than that. You knew my and his alignment before you ever cast that vote, so I'm hardly going to applaud your courage here.
Quote from Iso »
When you do get around to pushing back, we have this:
Character assassination. Attempting to make me look bad, like a villain, etc.; all of this can be summarized as "yo Iso take some ad hom!" Again, it's not actually addressing the argument, but rather, attempting to make me look like an unreliable source of information in addition to questioning my methodology. More fluff.
*head scratch*
Character assassination is describing how your play makes sense as scum, apparently. I'm a straight cutthroat for that, apparently. And for calling you reckless, which is hardly a news bulletin. Come on man.
Lemme quote again what you're calling character assassination:
Anyways, Iso being reckless is nothing new under either alignment. So I'm not going to tell you that this isn't something I could have foreseen us all facepalming @ a townie Iso in the post-game for doing the same thing into an instant loss. That's totally in his wheelhouse. But it is absolutely a smarter play as scum, and there's great lines of play in support of doing what he's doing from an emotional manipulation standpoint. You commit to one particular target to undermine, you create an emotional bond because they now *know* that you're a good townie too (which they did before they voted, but hey, details are for suckers when you can put on a good show), and you always look better as the aggressor rather than the defender. It makes great work out of all those psychological edges. So, kudos to him for that, whether or not he methodically thought through all those aspects beforehand or not (he didn't, but he's got good instincts and that's just as good sometimes).
What you actually have here in this paragraph and the remainder of the post is a balanced assessment of your abilities. When you're townie, you're obviously gifted. That's counter-balanced by being brash, and ridiculously confident, which sometimes leads to loose play such as outing fellow townie power roles just to prove that you can/that you were right about them, regardless of whether it helps your team win. That's my plain and simple opinion of your pros and cons as a player. Are you really honestly disagreeing with my assessment of you, or do you just not like how it sounds when it explains exactly how your line of play makes sense?
And I'm not even trying to say it only makes sense under only a scum alignment. I'm saying you'd do this jazz under either one, and that still gets charted up as some kind of underhanded tactic? Wut?
Quote from Iso »
"Well, there's not a lot going on here except Iso's cheap shot lololo but you can totally figure this game out, Rhand!" This is a really neat psychological tactic - it villainizes me as misrepping, unreasonable, overconfident, and possibly scum as a result, but puts alleged confidence in Rhand, appealing to his pride and sense of reason in the sense that you're trying to get Rhand to work with you.
I'm pretty sure it's impossible to "misrep" you as overconfident, Iso. Let's be real here.
And yes, you're absolutely right that I'm appealing to Rhand's sense of reason. That is exactly what I'm doing, I'm not trying to hide it.
What I'd love to hear is how you'd describe what YOU are appealing to out of Rhand. Because you've effectively made this a contest to see who can persuade Rhand to vote for the other guy. Don't try to pretend you're not doing everything you can think of to sway him your way. Or continue doing so, I guess. It makes my job easier to point out how silly you're being by pretending you are some kind of objective, dispassionate champion of logic here.
Also, your new nickname is now Discount Spock.
Now THAT'S how you do ad hom/character assassination. *Takes a bow*
Quote from Iso »
Finally, Az tries to make himself seem like a reasonable party:
I don't have to seem, I'm legit reasonable. I get awards for reasonableness from the reasonableness board, I'm so reasonable. I got a card, and a trophy case. I'm the legit Leonard Nimoy, not some mirror universe knock-off. Bow to my pointy, green-blooded ears, son.
Quote from Iso »
After previously humbling yourself - "oh gee, I sure hope you can figure out this game, Rhand!" - you then boost yourself up to slightly below the level you put him on, making yourself attempt to seem like someone who has a small amount of confidence but not enough to try to dwarf the inflamed sense of ego you attempted to bestow upon Rhand, which, let's be honest, is a total misrepresentation of the way you feel about the way you play Mafia.
Um, I'm not sure how any of what I said is supposed to impart some kind of over-inflated sense of ego to Rhand. I have my opinions about Rhand. Apparently, it would be some kind of faux pas to share them. Which I didn't, so, uh, good jorb making up points I guess.
Maybe I said something to boost Rhand's ego over in the mirror universe, and you just got those two mixed up.
Quote from Iso »
All in all, this is a really dirty scum essay because of the way you've written it to appeal to Rhand and, while I applaud you on your efforts, it's very transparent.
Blah blah blah, tunnel everything to say it's a scum tell, blah blah blah, make up stuff that didn't actually happen, complain about it, profit. Same old scum tactics. Learn a new trick, bro.
Ah, here we go - there's that pride. Thank you for highlighting the dissonance in your mindset for me.
By calling myself careful and methodical? I already said we both have our methods that each work for us. If I had to choose between our skillsets, Iso, I'd choose yours. My skills take time, effort, work. Yours are like magic. Instanteous. Effortless. Rapid. They both have their times and places. I'm not really trying to say one is better than the other.
Courthouse is a pretty good example of this. Me, I can come up with a legal argument, put it on paper, and have it be pretty rock solid. I can prepare for hearings for hours. But put me up against a good trial attorney who can think on their feet, and I'm gonna lose at oral argument every damn time when they whip something out of their butt, and all that effort gets lit on fire like a roll of burning toilet paper. On the other hand, yeah, sometimes the brash trial attorney glosses over some critical detail that I caught, and I have their head on a platter.
Plusses and minuses, bro. Tradeoffs. It's not all just as simple as calling it winners and losers. Life's not that simple, and I'm not trying to make it more simple than it is. I'm describing life as I see it, plainly and truthfully. Because that's how I prefer to roll. Can't say the same for you, in this moment. You keep trying to twist my statements into some kind of binary model, white and black, light and shadow. But you're a complicated dude, iso. Sometimes you're white, sometimes you're black, sometimes you're silly, sometimes, you're brilliant. You're all those things at once, and I'm describing you as such, because that is the plain truth about life, and about you. You're a bunch of stuff, not just a single piece.
So why do you keep trying to mangle everything I say into this single mold you've picked, Iso? What's leading you to do that? Riddle me that.
How does your gambit prove your alignment to Rhand, Iso? I'll sit down with a good book while you try to BS your way through that one. Sheesh. Talk about overplaying your gambit.
Funny, I don't remember saying it does.
Quote from Azrael »
Because your "gambit" which provided zero actionable info to anyone "proves"...what again?
That Rhand is town, which is what I was hoping to prove going into this. If I was wrong...well, I'd have lost the game. But I had enough confidence in my read on you to push for scumAz and it paid off.
Quote from Azrael »
Well, it "proves" is that you're a gambler under either alignment, which we all knew before we came in.
It also proves you wanted to show Rhand how much you "trusted" him. Because you're hoping that your "trust", of someone whose alignment you already knew, will go both ways. Nevermind that there was no leap of faith involved whatsoever, because you're just scum.
Doesn't prove a thing other than that. You knew my and his alignment before you ever cast that vote, so I'm hardly going to applaud your courage here.
You keep moving the goalposts, here. I don't once recall saying that my gambit cleared me - only that it cleared Rhand. I'm not sure I understand what you hope to accomplish by barking up this tree, other than more ad hominem.
Quote from Azrael »
What you actually have here in this paragraph and the remainder of the post is a balanced assessment of your abilities. When you're townie, you're obviously gifted. That's counter-balanced by being brash, and ridiculously confident, which sometimes leads to loose play such as outing fellow townie power roles just to prove that you can/that you were right about them, regardless of whether it helps your team win. That's my plain and simple opinion of your pros and cons as a player. Are you really honestly disagreeing with my assessment of you, or do you just not like how it sounds when it explains exactly how your line of play makes sense?
Given that the last time you took this angle to try to talk me down, you were scum (though correct me if I'm wrong), you'll have to forgive my skepticism about your motives.
Quote from Azrael »
And I'm not even trying to say it only makes sense under only a scum alignment. I'm saying you'd do this jazz under either one, and that still gets charted up as some kind of underhanded tactic? Wut?
This is a misrepresentation of my argument. I said that you are trying to paint me as unreliable, which does not come from a town mindset. TownAz shouldn't care whether or not Iso can be unreliable as town...because a townAz in this scenario would know that Iso would have to be scum.
But that's not the case.
Your argument is: "1. Iso is unreliable as town, and 2. might be cunning as scum."
What I'm saying is that the first part is a mindset slip. There should be no doubt in your mind as to whether or not I am scum, which means that the point you're driving in 1 has absolutely no place in this argument. That is to say that only scum would be trying to present that angle, because no matter what my alignment is, it paints me in a bad light.
Quote from Azrael »
I'm pretty sure it's impossible to "misrep" you as overconfident, Iso. Let's be real here.
Okay, I'll cede that point, to an extent; though, realistically, there's no reason I shouldn't be close to 100% confident that you're scum, in this scenario.
Quote from Azrael »
And yes, you're absolutely right that I'm appealing to Rhand's sense of reason. That is exactly what I'm doing, I'm not trying to hide it.
Yes, my point is that you're doing so in a dishonest and disingenuous way. You're crafting a narrative that suits your agenda by attempting to appeal Rhand on multiple points that are irrelevant to the argument and try to make you seem like a paragon of truth and reason, and given the inconsistencies I've pointed out in your fabrication, nobody should fall for that.
Quote from Azrael »
What I'd love to hear is how you'd describe what YOU are appealing to out of Rhand. Because you've effectively made this a contest to see who can persuade Rhand to vote for the other guy. Don't try to pretend you're not doing everything you can think of to sway him your way. Or continue doing so, I guess. It makes my job easier to point out how silly you're being by pretending you are some kind of objective, dispassionate champion of logic here.
I'm using facts and logic What I'm not doing is kissing Rhand's ass or generating a fictitious biography of you or your past actions in an attempt to shade, slander, or seem less credible. Man up and attack my argument, not my Mafia persona as a whole.
Quote from Azrael »
I don't have to seem, I'm legit reasonable. I get awards for reasonableness from the reasonableness board, I'm so reasonable. I got a card, and a trophy case. I'm the legit Leonard Nimoy, not some mirror universe knock-off. Bow to my pointy, green-blooded ears, son.
You may think you're the OG because you've been here longer, but true Spocks know that change is the essential process of all existence. What you've failed to do is adapt to the situation, and it will cost you.
Quote from Azrael »
Um, I'm not sure how any of what I said is supposed to impart some kind of over-inflated sense of ego to Rhand. I have my opinions about Rhand. Apparently, it would be some kind of faux pas to share them. Which I didn't, so, uh, good jorb making up points I guess.
Woe is me, for I am but a humble Azrael simply wishing to do what is right by the Rhands of this world!
Quote from Azrael »
Plusses and minuses, bro. Tradeoffs. It's not all just as simple as calling it winners and losers. Life's not that simple, and I'm not trying to make it more simple than it is. I'm describing life as I see it, plainly and truthfully. Because that's how I prefer to roll. Can't say the same for you, in this moment. You keep trying to twist my statements into some kind of binary model, white and black, light and shadow. But you're a complicated dude, iso. Sometimes you're white, sometimes you're black, sometimes you're silly, sometimes, you're brilliant. You're all those things at once, and I'm describing you as such, because that is the plain truth about life, and about you. You're a bunch of stuff, not just a single piece.
You flatterer.
Quote from Azrael »
So why do you keep trying to mangle everything I say into this single mold you've picked, Iso? What's leading you to do that? Riddle me that.
Au contraire, dear Azrael. You are simply fitting the mold - Occam's Razor. You think that I could twist your points so badly that you'd end up looking this scummy without there being some substance to them?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Cool a lot of information for me to process.
I’m on a city trip in Krakow and getting ready for our Auswitsch visit, so I’ll have to postpone thorough reading a bit. Skimming is not enough in this case
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Gah this is hard. I’m not allowed to use half of what is said to base conclusions off.
I know both of you pretty well, and everything that has been said is NAI. Both of you are trying to discredit the other, which makes sense as both alignments in this case because one of you knows the other is scum and the other has to pretend to know the one is scum. Both of you are using a bit of AtE.
I have thought about the early vote tactic, and I am town (pro Iso), but I decided against it because it pushes win chances below 50% unless you’re sold the one you’re voting is scum.
What worries me is... how sure can Iso have been after so few posts? And the early reasoning is based on something I was told to ignore.
What worries me about Az is that weird slow-roll vote on Iso.
I also don’t know what questions I can ask you to make a more informed judgement.
Currently I am leaning towards voting Iso. I’m waiting for input of my teammates.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Also, I would disagree that what's said is NAI if you see the inconsistencies that I highlighted in Azrael's mindset as well as his approach to arguing about me - that he shouldn't care about the way I do things as town, because as town, he would logically not even be considering that angle. The only reason he could possibly have to make you think, "Well, Iso isn't reliable as town" is if he's scum.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Also, I would disagree that what's said is NAI if you see the inconsistencies that I highlighted in Azrael's mindset as well as his approach to arguing about me - that he shouldn't care about the way I do things as town, because as town, he would logically not even be considering that angle. The only reason he could possibly have to make you think, "Well, Iso isn't reliable as town" is if he's scum.
It's more that I thought Az was scummier than you based on his approach to the game, as I've already explained.
I'm really disappointed that you're considering voting me; I thought you'd have known better.
But you always think I’m scum. What made me town this time?
I wasn’t feeling great about your intro post because it felt like you were trying to underhandedly convince me that I shouldn’t be scumreading you. (Also we were totally just in a game where I townread you on D1 and even left you my items upon my death. ) But then Az just totally ***** the bed and by proxy you had to be town.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Players
Iso (Team Team Team)
Rhand (Team Cassandra)
Azrael (Feral Octegenarians)
Game Rules
Role PMs are going out now. Everyone please confirm by PM. The games will start once everyone has confirmed.
Everyone has confirmed, all games are live now.
Deadline is 2100 GMT on Saturday 23rd June.
If Iso is town, Az might have an easy win here
Rhand, what is the definitive guide to scum reading you? No less than 500 words. And go.
The only thing I really struggle with as scum is taking control of the gamestate, which I try to do naturally as town.
Why ask one of us the town guide and the other the scum guide? Why not both the same?
The Azrael/KJ/Kpaca team is called "Feral Octegenarians".
I have been asked about mentioning the other games, so I'm again going to defer to MafiaScum:
So basically you may comment on public, mod confirmed information in the other games but you may not attempt to communicate with another game or publically influence it.
We can’t RVS, and there’s really not a lot that I rely on to catch scum that I can utilize, here.
I currently think Az is scummier than Rhand, FWIW.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Because I can generally recognize most town metas, but my last three games have wagoned Iso halfway to death before I flip my read and get a good, solid town-read on him. Been significantly better at POE than directly reading difficult slots. So if you had any actually legitimate info on your scum game for me, that would have been pretty helpful as far as reading your slot. Because probably the best way for me to win the game is to read you, rather than Iso. I know it's not me, so all I have to do is town-clear one more person. But for the best possible town-read, I need to know what does or does not match with the town-clear.
In other words, I didn't really expect Iso to have a solid answer for me. But I hoped that you would, because I imagine with my past history with Iso your slot would be significantly easier for me to read correctly and easily, than his will be, and from that I could infer alignments for each of you. Savvy?
Who says we can't RVS? *arches eyebrow* The whole game can be RVS, if we want it to be. Or just straight analysis. There are no rules. Except for the rules, of course.
Don't see how your vote gambit actually clears someone, rather than just ends the game or is pointless? I mean, if there's someone else here, and you picked wrong, the game is over. If there's no one else here but you and the person you voted, no one is cleared...
And surely your game isn't THAT dependent on probable team interactions, is it? You've had plenty of games where you can rando-zap someone from the RVS stage based on OPs alone. Why downplay your abilities here?
*insert obligatory scummier because I'm the scum claim, here*
The vote gambit involves voting for one player (obviously). If the other player posts without hammering, they're confirmed town, because there's no reason scum shouldn't end the game right there. That effectively makes the other player an IC, meaning the odds of winning the game for the town get a significant bump.
...of course, the other 50% of the time, the town instaloses because the player that didn't get voted is scum, so it's a bit of a wash.
With all of that in mind, consider my vote on Az.
Rhand, give me your thoughts.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Vindicate me, Rhand.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
So yeh, confirmed town here.
Knew I nailed it.
Alright, Az. Ball's in your court.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Also, the "I totally expected bad answers from you guys!" thing was completely disingenuous and felt like posturing. Not to mention the "busywork for the sake of looking busy" stuff he's been doing. I can feel the intent behind Az's mindset, and he's looking for an opening.
I think it would be anticlimactic if you don't let Az and I battle it out to convince you one way or the other, Rhand, but this case is pretty airtight insofar as 1-Day games go.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
As long as we don't think it'll influence the game one way or the other, according to Eco.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I noticed the same with Kpaca, and am baffled Az even made that argument. I am leaning very strongly towards lynching Az and might have done the vote thing if you weren’t first. Which is another thing in your favor.
@Az: convince me I’m wrong.
At any rate, I'm feeling really good about this game, now. I wanna jump up and down with excitement!
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Well we are influencing those in private chats anyways. It would be a bit weird to be able to form conclusions there but not use them here.
Let's make this a town win, then.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
It's a thin line, I think, but probably best not to try and push it.
I'd say "paranoia's good" but that'd be a lie as it could cause us not to win. I'd also try to convince you to just vote Az with me, but again, I think giving him a fair shake is more honorable and at least gives this game some bit (which I admit is very uncharacteristic for me, but it's not going to be a very long game, so why not enjoy it while we can?).
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I've been refreshing the thread for the past 10 hours and only somehow just noticed that typo
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
F5F5F5
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Still working, so fuller explanation will have to come later. But Rhand, think through the logic of what his vote "proves" to you, versus how it doesn't prove anything to him, but does risk the game. IDK what the hell Kpaca is up to or doing in his game, haven't read the QT since a day or two ago either, but if Iso saw something and thought it was a good gambit, you know it's probably catastrophic for the town, no matter what Iso's alignment is supposed to be.
Anyways, since Rhand is clearly not the scum or is epicly slow-rolling us, vote... Huh. I wonder if there's any strategic benefit for Rhand to not close out the game early based on the game structure...? Hrmm. I think not, given how the rules work? I mean, at least not something very direct. Ehhh. Ok. Vote: Iso. Logic dictates this decision is sound and correct but still seems so incredibly loose to vote this early in a three-man lylo.
Also, if your case is based upon the play of my teammates in other games more generally...that's also not something any of us can talk about legitimately.
What I can talk about is that early voting does not give a town player the ability to make a more intelligent decision. It forecloses it.
A townie who votes early has effectively ended their information phase in a meaningful sense. If they were right, yes, they know they were right, but if they were wrong, they lost the game. It's information in the same sense that lynching someone is "information". But the point of information is to use it to inform yourself and make intelligent decisions BEFORE pushing all your chips in on the table. Not afterwards. The information gained does not assist the voter in making the correct vote.
I suppose it *might* provide information to the third-party not involved in the situation IF the game does not end immediately in town loss, because the way that players read and respond to that gambit DOES create information and provoke behavioral reactions. But for a town player, it's one hell of a gamble that causes you to sacrifice any other source of information prior to committing to a read, and frankly, I don't think it's at all a smart thing to do from a town perspective. Ugh, this is a crappy situation, that I can't go into more detail.
Anyways, Iso being reckless is nothing new under either alignment. So I'm not going to tell you that this isn't something I could have foreseen us all facepalming @ a townie Iso in the post-game for doing the same thing into an instant loss. That's totally in his wheelhouse. But it is absolutely a smarter play as scum, and there's great lines of play in support of doing what he's doing from an emotional manipulation standpoint. You commit to one particular target to undermine, you create an emotional bond because they now *know* that you're a good townie too (which they did before they voted, but hey, details are for suckers when you can put on a good show), and you always look better as the aggressor rather than the defender. It makes great work out of all those psychological edges. So, kudos to him for that, whether or not he methodically thought through all those aspects beforehand or not (he didn't, but he's got good instincts and that's just as good sometimes).
As far as things we're legitimately allowed to talk about, obviously there's not a ton of info for you to look at this early. A few posts from each of us. There's not much there except some cheap misrep from Iso, and this gambit that you could see from either alignment. So I guess I'm kind of banking that you talk this out enough to read me and pick up on my town tells, because otherwise we might be kind of screwed on outs if Iso just does his standard unreasonable, poorly explained confidence bit that he does under either alignment. And that makes him a tough guy to get a legit read on, because that's not a hard pattern of behavior for him to reproduce under either alignment.
Me, though, I have one strong advantage here. I'm not a tough townie read. I'm someone who people usually can look at, talk to enough, and they can get a good solid read on where I'm coming from on a behavioral standpoint. Either as scum or town, I'm far more of an open book than Iso. Maybe to expand on that, I think my two playstyles are far more markedly different, so anyone who's familiar with my meta has a pretty ok shot of picking up a good read, whereas Iso's style falls into similar patterns under either alignment. I think the question is going to be less who has the more convincing scum case, and more who is the most evident townie. Or at least, I think that's your best shot of getting this right, for whatever that's worth to you.
So, if you have questions for me that the mod will allow me to answer, fire away. I'm here, and I'll just talk until you feel you got enough of a read to sort this out.
With regards to the gambit thing, I find it disingenuous that you would suggest that it's catastrophic for the town after okaying kpaca to do it. I have more to say on this but I don't think I'm allowed to per the game influence rule, so I've opted to simply pass it on to my teammates via QT.
Your slow vote is painfully fake and obviously scum. Like...the only reason scumRhand would have not to hammer you immediately is to troll us, and at that point, we've already lost. The only possible angle you could have here is to try to hope I'll switch my vote to Rhand or to somehow seem skeptical and townie, neither of which really occurred.
In short, get lynched.
Rhand, would you like to do the honors?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Dude. You already know I can't respond to this. Quit trying to tempt me into disproving your case. Not cool, man.
My opinion is my opinion. I didn't change it at any point. If you think that's inconsistent with something else you saw, fine. But I can't clear that up for Rhand, so that's a pretty low blow, man.
Pushing that mislynch a little strong and quick, aren't we?
The only explanation? Hardly. Unlike you, Iso, I am as methodical as a glacier. We both have playstyles that work well for us, but mine is based on thinking through every scenario I can imagine, slowly, carefully, and from as many angles as I can contrive to imagine. So no, casting a deciding vote this early in the day under ANY circumstances seriously rubs against my grain, and I am CERTAINLY going to think it through before doing something that could cause my team to lose the game. And I am going to advise any player who shares my alignment to exercise the same care and patience that I apply in my own work.
See, this is funny, because it's putting down the very tactic that outed you as scum. The problem with this post is that you're trying to make me look bad on a premise that is faulty that still worked. To which information sources are you referring that we've cut off? Your ability to make Rhand look bad? Boohoo. Suck it up - this is an uphill battle for you, and you know it. It's like you're saying, "Well, I know that you can cut vegetables with a knife, but I prefer a mandoline because it's more uniform, pretty, and precise, even though you got exactly the same results more efficiently by using your knife. And you should feel bad for that."
You're attacking my methodology without disputing the findings. In short, this is fluff and completely irrelevant to the overall state of the game other than to mischaracterize me.
When you do get around to pushing back, we have this:
Character assassination. Attempting to make me look bad, like a villain, etc.; all of this can be summarized as "yo Iso take some ad hom!" Again, it's not actually addressing the argument, but rather, attempting to make me look like an unreliable source of information in addition to questioning my methodology. More fluff.
"Well, there's not a lot going on here except Iso's cheap shot lololo but you can totally figure this game out, Rhand!" This is a really neat psychological tactic - it villainizes me as misrepping, unreasonable, overconfident, and possibly scum as a result, but puts alleged confidence in Rhand, appealing to his pride and sense of reason in the sense that you're trying to get Rhand to work with you.
Finally, Az tries to make himself seem like a reasonable party:
After previously humbling yourself - "oh gee, I sure hope you can figure out this game, Rhand!" - you then boost yourself up to slightly below the level you put him on, making yourself attempt to seem like someone who has a small amount of confidence but not enough to try to dwarf the inflamed sense of ego you attempted to bestow upon Rhand, which, let's be honest, is a total misrepresentation of the way you feel about the way you play Mafia.
-
All in all, this is a really dirty scum essay because of the way you've written it to appeal to Rhand and, while I applaud you on your efforts, it's very transparent.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Ah, here we go - there's that pride. Thank you for highlighting the dissonance in your mindset for me.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Full stop right there. I'm not scum, I'm not outed, AND YOU KNOW THAT. Trying to pretend that your little stunt was anything more than window dressing for Rhand is BS. It proves nothing to Rhand except that you think he's an easier mark than me.
How does your gambit prove your alignment to Rhand, Iso? I'll sit down with a good book while you try to BS your way through that one. Sheesh. Talk about overplaying your gambit.
Because your "gambit" which provided zero actionable info to anyone "proves"...what again?
Well, it "proves" is that you're a gambler under either alignment, which we all knew before we came in.
It also proves you wanted to show Rhand how much you "trusted" him. Because you're hoping that your "trust", of someone whose alignment you already knew, will go both ways. Nevermind that there was no leap of faith involved whatsoever, because you're just scum.
Doesn't prove a thing other than that. You knew my and his alignment before you ever cast that vote, so I'm hardly going to applaud your courage here.
*head scratch*
Character assassination is describing how your play makes sense as scum, apparently. I'm a straight cutthroat for that, apparently. And for calling you reckless, which is hardly a news bulletin. Come on man.
Lemme quote again what you're calling character assassination:
What you actually have here in this paragraph and the remainder of the post is a balanced assessment of your abilities. When you're townie, you're obviously gifted. That's counter-balanced by being brash, and ridiculously confident, which sometimes leads to loose play such as outing fellow townie power roles just to prove that you can/that you were right about them, regardless of whether it helps your team win. That's my plain and simple opinion of your pros and cons as a player. Are you really honestly disagreeing with my assessment of you, or do you just not like how it sounds when it explains exactly how your line of play makes sense?
And I'm not even trying to say it only makes sense under only a scum alignment. I'm saying you'd do this jazz under either one, and that still gets charted up as some kind of underhanded tactic? Wut?
I'm pretty sure it's impossible to "misrep" you as overconfident, Iso. Let's be real here.
And yes, you're absolutely right that I'm appealing to Rhand's sense of reason. That is exactly what I'm doing, I'm not trying to hide it.
What I'd love to hear is how you'd describe what YOU are appealing to out of Rhand. Because you've effectively made this a contest to see who can persuade Rhand to vote for the other guy. Don't try to pretend you're not doing everything you can think of to sway him your way. Or continue doing so, I guess. It makes my job easier to point out how silly you're being by pretending you are some kind of objective, dispassionate champion of logic here.
Also, your new nickname is now Discount Spock.
Now THAT'S how you do ad hom/character assassination. *Takes a bow*
I don't have to seem, I'm legit reasonable. I get awards for reasonableness from the reasonableness board, I'm so reasonable. I got a card, and a trophy case. I'm the legit Leonard Nimoy, not some mirror universe knock-off. Bow to my pointy, green-blooded ears, son.
Um, I'm not sure how any of what I said is supposed to impart some kind of over-inflated sense of ego to Rhand. I have my opinions about Rhand. Apparently, it would be some kind of faux pas to share them. Which I didn't, so, uh, good jorb making up points I guess.
Maybe I said something to boost Rhand's ego over in the mirror universe, and you just got those two mixed up.
Blah blah blah, tunnel everything to say it's a scum tell, blah blah blah, make up stuff that didn't actually happen, complain about it, profit. Same old scum tactics. Learn a new trick, bro.
By calling myself careful and methodical? I already said we both have our methods that each work for us. If I had to choose between our skillsets, Iso, I'd choose yours. My skills take time, effort, work. Yours are like magic. Instanteous. Effortless. Rapid. They both have their times and places. I'm not really trying to say one is better than the other.
Courthouse is a pretty good example of this. Me, I can come up with a legal argument, put it on paper, and have it be pretty rock solid. I can prepare for hearings for hours. But put me up against a good trial attorney who can think on their feet, and I'm gonna lose at oral argument every damn time when they whip something out of their butt, and all that effort gets lit on fire like a roll of burning toilet paper. On the other hand, yeah, sometimes the brash trial attorney glosses over some critical detail that I caught, and I have their head on a platter.
Plusses and minuses, bro. Tradeoffs. It's not all just as simple as calling it winners and losers. Life's not that simple, and I'm not trying to make it more simple than it is. I'm describing life as I see it, plainly and truthfully. Because that's how I prefer to roll. Can't say the same for you, in this moment. You keep trying to twist my statements into some kind of binary model, white and black, light and shadow. But you're a complicated dude, iso. Sometimes you're white, sometimes you're black, sometimes you're silly, sometimes, you're brilliant. You're all those things at once, and I'm describing you as such, because that is the plain truth about life, and about you. You're a bunch of stuff, not just a single piece.
So why do you keep trying to mangle everything I say into this single mold you've picked, Iso? What's leading you to do that? Riddle me that.
Got plenty of blood to spare. Have at it.
Funny, I don't remember saying it does.
That Rhand is town, which is what I was hoping to prove going into this. If I was wrong...well, I'd have lost the game. But I had enough confidence in my read on you to push for scumAz and it paid off.
You keep moving the goalposts, here. I don't once recall saying that my gambit cleared me - only that it cleared Rhand. I'm not sure I understand what you hope to accomplish by barking up this tree, other than more ad hominem.
Given that the last time you took this angle to try to talk me down, you were scum (though correct me if I'm wrong), you'll have to forgive my skepticism about your motives.
This is a misrepresentation of my argument. I said that you are trying to paint me as unreliable, which does not come from a town mindset. TownAz shouldn't care whether or not Iso can be unreliable as town...because a townAz in this scenario would know that Iso would have to be scum.
But that's not the case.
Your argument is: "1. Iso is unreliable as town, and 2. might be cunning as scum."
What I'm saying is that the first part is a mindset slip. There should be no doubt in your mind as to whether or not I am scum, which means that the point you're driving in 1 has absolutely no place in this argument. That is to say that only scum would be trying to present that angle, because no matter what my alignment is, it paints me in a bad light.
Okay, I'll cede that point, to an extent; though, realistically, there's no reason I shouldn't be close to 100% confident that you're scum, in this scenario.
Yes, my point is that you're doing so in a dishonest and disingenuous way. You're crafting a narrative that suits your agenda by attempting to appeal Rhand on multiple points that are irrelevant to the argument and try to make you seem like a paragon of truth and reason, and given the inconsistencies I've pointed out in your fabrication, nobody should fall for that.
I'm using facts and logic What I'm not doing is kissing Rhand's ass or generating a fictitious biography of you or your past actions in an attempt to shade, slander, or seem less credible. Man up and attack my argument, not my Mafia persona as a whole.
You may think you're the OG because you've been here longer, but true Spocks know that change is the essential process of all existence. What you've failed to do is adapt to the situation, and it will cost you.
Woe is me, for I am but a humble Azrael simply wishing to do what is right by the Rhands of this world!
You flatterer.
Au contraire, dear Azrael. You are simply fitting the mold - Occam's Razor. You think that I could twist your points so badly that you'd end up looking this scummy without there being some substance to them?
*Sluuurp*
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I’m on a city trip in Krakow and getting ready for our Auswitsch visit, so I’ll have to postpone thorough reading a bit. Skimming is not enough in this case
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Why are you pushing me for a decision Iso?
Because I like winning, and my team has less to stress about with my game clinched.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I know both of you pretty well, and everything that has been said is NAI. Both of you are trying to discredit the other, which makes sense as both alignments in this case because one of you knows the other is scum and the other has to pretend to know the one is scum. Both of you are using a bit of AtE.
I have thought about the early vote tactic, and I am town (pro Iso), but I decided against it because it pushes win chances below 50% unless you’re sold the one you’re voting is scum.
What worries me is... how sure can Iso have been after so few posts? And the early reasoning is based on something I was told to ignore.
What worries me about Az is that weird slow-roll vote on Iso.
I also don’t know what questions I can ask you to make a more informed judgement.
Currently I am leaning towards voting Iso. I’m waiting for input of my teammates.
I'm really disappointed that you're considering voting me; I thought you'd have known better.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
But you always think I’m scum. What made me town this time?
@Az: you never debunked this
I wasn’t feeling great about your intro post because it felt like you were trying to underhandedly convince me that I shouldn’t be scumreading you. (Also we were totally just in a game where I townread you on D1 and even left you my items upon my death. ) But then Az just totally ***** the bed and by proxy you had to be town.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Can you stop making sense already? You aren’t making my decision any easier