This thread is used for signing up to host games. Unless you have already run a few games on the site, you should post your playing/hosting experience before signing up.
This thread is also used for post-game replacement reports and recommendations for the probation list. After your game is complete, please provide a list of all players who needed to be replaced, and any extenuating circumstances you are aware of which contributed to their replacement. If you believe that a player could have additional activity problems in the future, please notify us so that future hosts can take that information into account.
Authorized Setup Reviewers:
All hosts, regardless of experience, must have their setups reviewed by another player before running. Please contact a reviewer from the appropriate list below.
Reviewers:
For Mini's, Normals, and Basics, contact the following players (With their stipulations beside it):
AsianInvasion, Axelrod, Creampuffeater (Basic/Open setup's Only), Cyan (PM/Contact First Please.), Dagger, DYH, Ecophagy, Ged, Kraj, Pale Mage (Basic Games Only), Xyre, ZeDorkSlipeur, Emo_Pinata, pinkys_brain (Basics), pinkfloyd (Minis or Basics), ganderin_dan (Minis or Basics), Zionite, Arcadic, MandersHex (Basic Games Only), Niv, Wuffles_II, or Iso.
FTQ/PCQ/Specialties:
For FTQ, PCQ, and specialty games, contact one of the following players:
Azrael, Axelrod, Cyan, DYH, Ged, Kraj, Zionite, Niv, Wuffles_II, RobRoy, or Xyre, or any person who has previously designed and moderated a PCQ or FTQ game. The names of players who have run these games can be found in the game archive section, below.
Hosting Limit - A player may not sign up for more than one normal, mini, or specialty game at a time. Players may sign up to host one additional FTQ or one additional newb/basic basic game.
Before signing up to host, you should complete playing in at least two games on site, with another in progress or finished.
It is the responsibility of all prospective hosts to monitor their place on the lists. Hosts should be prepared to host at any time when their name is in the top three of a list. Please have your setups completed and reviewed (if not on their way to review) when you sign up to host a game. A PM will be sent out to everyone in the top 5/10 when a game is completed. If your game setup is not completed at this time, you will be pushed back 2 slots. When it is a host’s turn to make their game, they will be PMed. If they are not ready, or have a conflict, they may ask to be pushed back 2-4 slots. If they completely fail to respond to their game prompt, they will be removed from the Hosting List. If a player wishes to be re-added to the queue, they may request such, and they will be added back at the end of the hosting list. If a player does not have their setup ready the second time they are asked but have responded, they will be removed from the list.
Hosting Lists: Players listed in red on the lists are currently inactive and may be skipped.
Players listed in bold have confirmed they will be ready when their turn comes up.
Normal games are intended to be setups with a moderate degree of complication. While they may be more complicated than the traditional roles found in newbie or basic games, hosts should use their best judgment before adding offbeat or unexpected role mechanics commonly found in specialty games.
The following may never be used in a Normal game without permission from a council member.
1. A player on the replace list with a role.
2. A player not listed in the game that has an effect on the game.
3. A role with no feasible win condition. (A neutral that cannot win with town or mafia, and has no kills, for example.)
4. A role that may VOTE after death. Please confirm any post-death abilities with a reviewer even if they are not vote-related.
5. The mod having a role.
These are generally metagame roles, which have been restricted due to unplayability, infeasibility, or the fact that the average Normal game should not require its players to expect such twists that they might from a Specialty game.
ced395 (Aardman)
Toastboy
The Cold Monarch (Historical Figures)
ganderin_dan (The Boondocks)
Void (WWE)
DRey
Wrath_of_DoG
Jobie
Zionite
Dork Knight
Wessel
DYH (Amistarian III)
Specialty games are designed to give hosts a free hand to create new and innovative game mechanics.
To sign up to Host a Specialty game, you must: 1. Have a game setup finished or near finished.
2. Submit the setup to a reviewer for review/balancing.
3. Have participated in three complete games on MTGSalvation.
Infinis
Iso (The Legend of Lucian)
GigaRage
Emo_Pinata
Tanarin (Tan's Chaos Favorites)
Tanarin, & ganderin_dan (Blind Hydra)
Dragonheart91
Seppel
RobRoy
Dagger
Mini game queue is for setups with 12 or fewer players. Any level of complexity or simplicity is acceptable.
TheIceMan
AsianInvasion
kill-joy
Wheat_Grinder (Steins;Gate)
Xyre
ImTehFairy
KoolKoal (Brilliant Minds Mafia)
Megiddo
MirrorEntity (Mental Mafia)
Basic games are the simplest level of design. Players should expect traditional mafia roles with very little embellishment. Basic games are an excellent place to work on mastering behavioral analysis techniques. While new players are always welcome to join other game types, basic games provide a simple, uncomplicated introduction to the fundamentals of the game.
Iso (GIANT ROBOT BATTLE ROYALE)
ganderin_dan
Tanarin (M:tG Salvation)
Arnnaria (Disney Villains)
Seppel
pinkfloyd
Wheat_Grinder (Fooly Cooly)
fluffyn00b (Neil Gaiman's "Sandman")
EtR (Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles)
Wessel
AsianInvasion
Tom
The Fast-Track Queue exists to encourage flavorful, well-crafted, and uniquely enjoyable mafia designs. Instead of a normal signup process, games reach the FTQ by being nominated by the host, submitted to an authorized reviewer, and compete against other current nominations for the next FTQ slot. One of the primary advantages of the FTQ process is that there is no waiting time in order to host; as soon as the previous FTQ game ends, the next FTQ setup can post signups.
To nominate a setup to the fast-track queue, you should first private message the MafiaScribe gimmick account. Ideally, nominations should be submitted while the current fast-track game is still running, but late nominations are also welcome. In your private message you should include the name of the setup and the name of an authorized reviewer who has agreed to read the setup.
After each fast-track game ends, a committee of authorized reviewers will meet and select the next game on the queue from the current list of nominations.
For a list of authorized reviewers, refer to the top of this post.
Similar to the Fast Track Queue, a Player's Choice games will bypass the normal queue process and run immediately after they have been selected, in order to encourage the design of new, high-quality submissions. Also like the FTQ, they will require an authorized reviewer to have looked over the setup. Ordinarily, the next Player's Choice game will be selected after the completion of the previous game. However, it is possible that the council may choose to launch additional PCQ games in response to heightened demand periods.
The key difference between the PCQ and the FTQ? Community involvement. As the name would imply, it will be the commmunity's vote that determines which will be the next game to be selected for the PCQ. Also, you can submit a game to the PCQ that has already been nominated to the FTQ.
So, what do you need to do to get on the PCQ?
1. Complete your setup in advance. Make sure it's a good one.
2. Contact an authorized reviewer to work with you on your setup. (We are also looking to increase our numbers of additional authorized reviewers at this time. Please let us know if you're interested in being considered.)
3. You and/or your authorized reviewer nominate your setup by posting a pitch for the setup once the PCQ thread opens, describing relevant features of the design, perhaps providing a flavor sample, explaining why players should be interested in voting for it, as well as any areas for concern, such as balance.
How will the voting process be handled?
Since this is a bit of a grand experiment, the voting for the first PCQ will not have a pre-set time limit. We will accept nominations and votes until stated otherwise, announce a cutoff date when activity begins to slow, and then announce a final deadline for votes. The setup with the most votes by the deadline will win. In the event of a tie at deadline, the first setup to receive an additional vote will win.
Players may change which setup they are voting for at any time, though it may be more convenient for counting purposes if you reserve your bolded votes until near the conclusion of the final voting period. But by all means, feel free to comment on the setups in the meantime.
Currently, PCQ submissions are being taken by the Mafia League Judges to run in the League. If you're interested, please contact Arnnaria, our current Mafia League Bookkeeper. For questions on how voting will be handled while the League is in charge of the PCQ, please see past examples.
-Game Limit-
Players may participate in only three games at any given time. An exception to this rule can be made by moderators in need of a replacement for a game, if no other replacement can be found.
-Suicide-
If you no longer wish to participate in a game for any reason, contact the moderator. Do NOT attempt to force the moderator to modkill you.
-Current Game Discussion-
A player in an ongoing game may not discuss that game with any other player in that game, or in public forums. Also, it is a good idea to ask permission before discussing the game with anyone outside the game, because they can no longer replace into the game once any meaningful discussion takes place.
-Cryptoclaims-
Unless explicitly authorized by the game moderator in their opening rules section, cryptoclaims are forbidden.
-Out-of-game Promises-
Players may not use out-of-game promises (example: I swear on my grandmother's life, I bet you my entire collection of magic cards, etc.) in an effort to influence other players.
-Multiple Players On One Account
"Hydra" accounts - multiple people playing and posting as one player with shared access to the "gimmick" account, are not allowed unless they have prior approval from the specific game Moderator. Please do not do this on your own.
-Traitor/Alignment Switching Roles
Game moderators are strongly encouraged to be extraordinarily careful if they seek to include a traitor role in their designs. These roles are notorious for causing games to implode, for creating fairness concerns, and for the challenge they pose to the town's behavioral analysis. (See Discussion in Council Thread, Post 3351, onwards.)
Blacklist
A player who has been blacklisted may no longer play in any mafia games. The blacklist is reserved for players who seriously compromise the health of games. Blacklisted players can appeal to the mafia council if they wish to have their name removed from the list.
Players listed below may be denied entry at the discretion of moderators, due to a history of chronic lurking, replacing, or some other activity detrimental to the game.
Players and hosts may recommend players to be added to the probation list by PMing the council once the game is concluded (Azrael, AsianInvasion, Ecophagy, atlseal), and by posting a recommendation in the hosting thread.
A host may recommend the removal of a player from this list if they participated well in said host’s game, and players have the right to petition the council for removal from the probation list.
Annorax - Self-nominated for mod WTFery
Artifice 101 - Unsportsmanlike conduct & role PM quoting
Bolly - Self-nominated for personal reasons
Dakkon33327
GiftsTrix - Chronic replacement
Gigas1- Chronic Replacement
Heartwork - Chronic Replacement
Jedcaj
Menma
Natirasha
Pod - Chronic replacement
Silent Prophet - Chronic replacement
Swinkee - Nominated for Disappearing out of Doomsday Mafia, as per the game rules.
Zchinque - Self nominated, chronic replacement
Can someone explain to me the status of the mini queue? There are multiple people "on hold" and I think a game is supposed to start soon? I ask because I'm near the top and want to coordinate my time.
Can someone explain to me the status of the mini queue? There are multiple people "on hold" and I think a game is supposed to start soon? I ask because I'm near the top and want to coordinate my time.
Seconded.
Of note is that Zasz has requested a review of his game, so i'm sure he'll be off hold and starting his game next.
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Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Since we have fast track, normal, and mini games scheduled to start soon, we're attempting to stagger the signups somewhat. I think RafaelK is going ahead with his normal first.
It has come to my attention that I'm next up on the list for newb/basic hosting. I think the newb signups are full and am ready to begin sign ups if it is truely time for me to start the game, but I've never been clear on when we should start newb signups (if a certain game has to be over or not).
Also hosting the newb game won't rob me of a chance to host the next FTQ right? I have a submission sent out to Az and will pass up the shot if it'll prevent me.
If it is my time and the answer to the 2nd question is no, then I'll put up signups later today.
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Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
It has come to my attention that I'm next up on the list for newb/basic hosting. I think the newb signups are full and am ready to begin sign ups if it is truely time for me to start the game, but I've never been clear on when we should start newb signups (if a certain game has to be over or not).
As soon as the newbie list is filled, the next host can start a newbie game. (Basics are still being discussed, I don't think we'd want multiples of those running just yet.)
Edit:
Once twelve players have signed up or all currently running Newbie games have finished (whichever happens first), the next game's host will create a new thread, grab a few more players from the community at large, and launch the game. Note that while you may sign up again while still being in an ongoing Newbie game, you will not count towards the necessary twelve players until that game finishes or you are no longer participating in it. This is to prevent new players from becoming too thinly spread due to many games containing the same players starting in rapid succession.
Quote from Loran16 »
Also hosting the newb game won't rob me of a chance to host the next FTQ right? I have a submission sent out to Az and will pass up the shot if it'll prevent me.
Yes, you will never be able to host another game, ever.
I'm kidding - no, it won't.
Quote from Loran16 »
If it is my time and the answer to the 2nd question is no, then I'll put up signups later today.
Noticed, ,see my latest post in the newb thread. Also, if you could follow my suggestion there and infract nai for signing up, that'd be great. (or at least add some red text....:-) )
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Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I encourage hosts to set up a Planeswalker mafia. Bring back the old school 'walkers. Don't know if thats been done before or not, just think its cool theme.
I encourage hosts to set up a Planeswalker mafia. Bring back the old school 'walkers. Don't know if thats been done before or not, just think its cool theme.
Oh yes,
Player A you are Urza, bat♥♥♥♥ insane walker. you have a bajillion powers, but you are insane so you don't get to control them. Instead you'll randomly use an ability on every player in the game each night.
Player B, you are Yawgmoth, ridiculously stupid random powerful non-planeswalker. You are untargetable, can kill two players a night, one player during the day, and can roleblock 3 players during hte game. Also, you can randomly turn a player to your side despite all their better sense.
Oh yes, this would work well......
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Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Why you be hatin', man? Walkers fighting walkers would be fair-ish. Besides, the flavor problems aren't any bigger than, say, Jedi in any Starwars game or the fact that a group of evil-doers are killing a single person at a time while they let their victims off one of them every day.
Why you be hatin', man? Walkers fighting walkers would be fair-ish. Besides, the flavor problems aren't any bigger than, say, Jedi in any Starwars game or the fact that a group of evil-doers are killing a single person at a time while they let their victims off one of them every day.
Shhh, of course evil doers fight fair. IT CLEARLY MAKES SENSE!
Also w/regards to Jedi, meh...that's just due to idiots in the EU overexpanding Jedi Powers. Besides, then you can always have ysalimiri in any star wars game to neuter jedi.
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Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I'd like to sign up for a Specialty. Surely in three years when my game starts I'll have something good.
Meow.
Even though it is likely to be quite a while before you would be up to host, to get on the Specialty list, you still need a set-up which has been reviewed.
Edit: well, at least in theory you did. Once. Maybe we changed that when we created the fast track. I'm not even sure anymore.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Even though it is likely to be quite a while before you would be up to host, to get on the Specialty list, you still need a set-up which has been reviewed.
Edit: well, at least in theory you did. Once. Maybe we changed that when we created the fast track. I'm not even sure anymore.
*shrug*
I'm on the specialty list and me and Ged have only figured out about five or six roles for the game I'll probably end up running. So I guess that rule is void?
I would like to also sign up for specialty. I have a game 80% completed. I have no experience on being a host/mod god. Also, I am looking for a reviewer.
I am seeking a reviewer for one of my specialty setups, which I may want to submit to the FTQ. Warning: this is a somewhat bastard-mod game.
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Player A you are Urza, bat♥♥♥♥ insane walker. you have a bajillion powers, but you are insane so you don't get to control them. Instead you'll randomly use an ability on every player in the game each night.
Player B, you are Yawgmoth, ridiculously stupid random powerful non-planeswalker. You are untargetable, can kill two players a night, one player during the day, and can roleblock 3 players during hte game. Also, you can randomly turn a player to your side despite all their better sense.
Oh yes, this would work well......
Player C, you are Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker in his full glory. You are unlynchable, can daykill any player once a day, are immune to nightkills, will know all abilities targeting you every day and night (and be able to choose whether they affect you), and can once during the game immediately end one day phase or one night phase.
Oh, and you're a neutral survivor. Because you don't care who wins, you've already won.
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
One of my hopes is that desegrating the two communities with the addition of basic games will help break down that dynamic and provide a bridge between the two. If it doesn't, we can consider other steps.
Since around the middle/later half of last year, I've been a little concerned with our new players. It seems many of them keep playing in Newb games even when they shouldn't be called "Newbs" anymore, and then some sign up to host other Newb games.
I feel this is gradually causing a scission between two distinct communities; the "old" players on the one side and the autarchic "new" players (who aren't even that new) on the other. As time passes on, I see more and more discrepancies between the two sides, and am honestly fearing for the future of this subforum, as far as quality of play goes.
I mean, when is the last time a relative newcomer has had a real influence on an "expert" game ? Who are the new Cyan, Pod, Andelijah ?
Which brings me to my final question: what happened to the limit on Newb games ? At the time I started playing, we weren't allowed to participate to a third Newb game. A conscious effort was made to showcase how much these games are merely an introduction, and not meant to be a type of game of their own.
In truth, this rule was never really enforced (Cyan has, like, three or four Newb games under his belt, not counting other sites), but it still had an impact on us. I remember at the end of Newb 9, I made the choice to definitely quit the kid's playground, for better or worse, even though I had no idea what to really expect from the "expert" games; and I believe most other players made similar choices under similar circumstances.
Nowadays, it seems the kids just won't quit the playground.
So... am I the only one who sees a problem here ?
*raises hand*
*points to self*
That aside, I do agree with the above observation. There are definitely at least some players who no longer have any real business entering every newb game that starts. I'm wondering if the large number of newb games is not stunting the learning curve.
I am seeking a reviewer for one of my specialty setups, which I may want to submit to the FTQ. Warning: this is a somewhat bastard-mod game.
No takers? ;_;
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
That might be an excellent argument for kicking another normal game queue into action. I'm not certain we want to discard the current regime at this point, because that may lead to gluts of game types and overcommitment, but the flood of new faces definitely merits a reevaluation of how many games we can support. It certainly doesn't look like the addition of the basic list put much of a dent in it.
I'll raise that in the council thread. Maybe we can also use that to cut down the ridiculous waiting time on the hosting queue.
I don't think we need another normal....I don't see the point right now since the FTQ was added at the expense of a mini where we have a large number of people going for normal spots and being randomed out.
Rafk's game seems to barely have 20 signed up, if at all, for example.
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Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Maybe it's just too harsh of a concept, I don't know. However, for the record, I play at a small French-speaking site where there is no equivalent for Newb games, so they are forced into the fray as soon as they arrive. I am biased, but I think the level of play there is overall better than here. And you will be hard-pressed to find anyone call a player a "newb" after his/her second game or so. All of this to say, we don't need games made specially for newcomers. It's nice for them to be considered, but in the end things can work very well without that.
'Tings ran on a similar system. Nobody on the entire site, including me, ever played in a newb game before diving straight in. And there weren't any hiccoughs.
My question is, would we be talking about desegregating our player-bases by cutting newb-only games and encouraging both new and old players to play in basics (I can get behind this), or are we talking about eliminating the newb/basic startup regime and encouraging our newbies to jump into whatever games they think they can handle?
I can see a couple good arguments against the latter arrangement. The big one is that we lose the capacity to run newb games whenever enough players sign up. Ever since we started that program, we've been experiencing a massive influx of new players. That's pretty important for our long-term health, and I'd hate to give that up.
The other argument is the one I think you're right to attack, which is the presumption that some of the new players can't handle playing in the mini or normal list. I'd say it's true that most of them could handle it just fine. Mafia's not exactly brain surgery to pick up for the first time.
But in defense of that view, there can be some awfully screwy stuff in some of our normal and mini games sometimes, setups and role mechanics that are far more advanced than the general run of games on 'tings were. Things that would make for an intimidating experience for a minority of our first-time players, or that might raise a displeased eyebrow even from players that handled the challenge gracefully. That's worth taking into account, and providing a more controlled environment tailored to those players and those concerns.
Do I think that every new player that walks into the door has to run a newb game before they try something else? Absolutely not. I'd strongly oppose a rule requiring participation in newb games before moving on to something else. But I don't think the opposite extreme is appropriate either. The newb/basic system is a terrific growth engine, and I think we're going to have more and better players in the long-term because of it.
'Tings ran on a similar system. Nobody on the entire site, including me, ever played in a newb game before diving straight in. And there weren't any hiccoughs.
My question is, would we be talking about desegregating our player-bases by cutting newb-only games and encouraging both new and old players to play in basics (I can get behind this), or are we talking about eliminating the newb/basic startup regime and encouraging our newbies to jump into whatever games they think they can handle?
I can see a couple good arguments against the latter arrangement. The big one is that we lose the capacity to run newb games whenever enough players sign up. Ever since we started that program, we've been experiencing a massive influx of new players. That's pretty important for our long-term health, and I'd hate to give that up.
The other argument is the one I think you're right to attack, which is the presumption that some of the new players can't handle playing in the mini or normal list. I'd say it's true that most of them could handle it just fine. Mafia's not exactly brain surgery to pick up for the first time.
But in defense of that view, there can be some awfully screwy stuff in some of our normal and mini games sometimes, setups and role mechanics that are far more advanced than the general run of games on 'tings were. Things that would make for an intimidating experience for a minority of our first-time players, or that might raise a displeased eyebrow even from players that handled the challenge gracefully. That's worth taking into account, and providing a more controlled environment tailored to those players and those concerns.
Do I think that every new player that walks into the door has to run a newb game before they try something else? Absolutely not. I'd strongly oppose a rule requiring participation in newb games before moving on to something else. But I don't think the opposite extreme is appropriate either. The newb/basic system is a terrific growth engine, and I think we're going to have more and better players in the long-term because of it.
I think there are two problems with newb queues. One, they're cyclical - they reinforce the idea that newbs may not be qualified to participate in normal queues, so newbs keep joining newb games and the process bogs down as newbs don't leave and more and more newb games are required. And two, they reduce the benefits of playing with experienced players, as your only interactions are with the equally-new.
I can see a convincing argument for eliminating the newb queue and transferring that space to reducing the length of the normal queue by starting another normal game.
EDIT: Along with this, I think we would want to redefine the boundaries between normals (and, to a lesser extent, minis) and specialties. "Normal" games like A Sword of Ice and Fire seem like they would deter new players because of their sheer complexity. The specialty queue's length, unfortunately, seems to have created a "specialness arms race" where mods use the normal queue as a specialty queue by proxy. With better clarification, and perhaps a greater grip on who wants to play in which kinds of games, the newb queue could be phased out in favor of more traditional normal games with mixed groups of players.
Copypasta'd from the Council thread, for your discussing pleasure:
Quote from arimnaes »
Basic games should adhere to the standard mechanics of mafia (single majority lynch per day, clear distinction between day and night, etc.) and should contain only simple, essentially standard roles. If you have a really neat idea for a role or mechanic that's never been tried before, this is not the type of game you should host.
Normal games should still adhere to the standard game mechanics, but may have more complex and innovative roles and interactions. Players' expectations should not be toyed with excessively - generally speaking, dead players should remain so, players on the replacement list should not have an active effect on the game, the mod should not have a role, and so forth. However, these restrictions apply less rigidly than for basic games and they can be bent if it's for a good reason.
Specialty games can push nearly any boundary of the game as we know it: alternate game mechanics, players entering and leaving the game, and other sorts of shenanigans are all considered par for the course at this level. Roles can get just as crazy - if you've been waiting to unleash your recruiting death-miller cult that wins by getting everyone to post the word "cheese," this is where you should do it.
In a system where we eliminated explicit "Newbie" games altogether, would you be looking to categorize the games in this sort of manner?
I kind of like that system of evaluation. I would also say that we could try eliminating a true "mini" classification, instead saying that mods can't make games with fewer than 12 people and requiring them to disclose the number of players in them (at least for basics and normals).
I kind of like that system of evaluation. I would also say that we could try eliminating a true "mini" classification, instead saying that mods can't make games with fewer than 12 people and requiring them to disclose the number of players in them (at least for basics and normals).
I like the mini queue because it gives mods a shorter wait if they're willing to do a smaller sized game, and I think there's a demand for smaller games. I know I like to be in at least one mini game at any given time. If we eliminate the queue, I'm afraid that few mods will want to run the smaller size without the added bonus of a shorter wait.
If there's demand for smaller games, having specific queues ensures that the demand is met.
Shouldn't the basic slot have some sort of list with pre-approved roles that the mod has to choose from?
I think a more general rule should be in place. I don't think the idea is to completely eliminate mod design. What we need is more specific guidelines.
No roles with multiple layers. No roles or interations from dead players, replacements, hidden players, or the mod. Basic game mechanics in place - Day and Night, majority for lynch, etc.
- They are not aimed at newcomers in particular, which means new player will get to enjoy playing with "expert" players right on their first game (infinitely more useful than letting them on their own)
- There name doesn't imply a necessity for newcomers to participate in them until they are ready to stop calling themselves newbs.
Where did they see it was obligatory to join a Newb game ? Absolutely nowhere, it's just what they inferred from the names.
Remove "Newb games", and you remove from newer player the illusion that there is a significant difference between them and the old-timers (well, there is a significant difference most of the time, but it has nothing to do with the wall some seem to see, and isn't as difficult to overcome as some think).
*nods* This is a good argument. To the council thread!
Copypasta'd from the Council thread, for your discussing pleasure:
In a system where we eliminated explicit "Newbie" games altogether, would you be looking to categorize the games in this sort of manner?
I attempted to add something similar to this language to each of the spoilers in the hosting queue thread when I switched it over. There's probably room for improvement though, so if you'd like feel free to edit what I threw together, or we can discuss it as a body if you're more comfortable with that.
Or maybe we can simply paste that in a separate place, so that you have an explanation of each queue AND a comparison of how they all compare to one another. That might be best.
In accordance with the new/clarified rules, please remove me from the Specialty hosting list, which should leaved me signed up only on the Mini list.
Well, we're not going to do that to you unless we do it to everyone. I think there's a question about whether we should kick people off lists they are already on when the rule was unclear.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I don't think this rule should be retroactive, especially not retroactive for games that have been listed for months now (which has absolutely positively nothing to do with me having a mini at the top of the list and a specialty in the works).
Well, we're not going to do that to you unless we do it to everyone. I think there's a question about whether we should kick people off lists they are already on when the rule was unclear.
Yes, it's not required that you give up your slot. But if you still wish to do so, that's quite possible.
Well in that case I may as well leave it. If my specialty gets fast-tracked (as it appears I have a reasonable shot at) that slot will get used up anyway.
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The Golden Rule of forums: If you're going to be rude, be right. If you might be wrong, be polite.
I would like up to sign up to host a basic game.
I've played in 5 games, and this would be my first time hosting:
Newb Mafia 10
Court Mafia
Cold War Mafia
Blind Mafia
Chamber's Too much Scum
I do not currently have a setup, but because the basic games are new, I would like to see at least one or two of them finish before making mine and getting it reviewed.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
I would like someone review the game that I'm planning on submitting to the FTQ. is anyone up for it?
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Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
We run 1 Normal, 3 Basics, 3 Minis, 1 Specialty, 1 Fast-Track, and when demand dictates, 1 Player's Choice game at any given time.
Normals – The Cold Monarch
Minis - creampuffeater, Prophylaxis
Specialty – Ecophagy & Toastboy
Fast-track - zindabad
Player's Choice/League -
Basic - Void (#69), DRey (#70), Raging Levine (#71)
This thread is used for signing up to host games. Unless you have already run a few games on the site, you should post your playing/hosting experience before signing up.
This thread is also used for post-game replacement reports and recommendations for the probation list. After your game is complete, please provide a list of all players who needed to be replaced, and any extenuating circumstances you are aware of which contributed to their replacement. If you believe that a player could have additional activity problems in the future, please notify us so that future hosts can take that information into account.
All hosts, regardless of experience, must have their setups reviewed by another player before running. Please contact a reviewer from the appropriate list below.
Reviewers:
For Mini's, Normals, and Basics, contact the following players (With their stipulations beside it):
AsianInvasion, Axelrod, Creampuffeater (Basic/Open setup's Only), Cyan (PM/Contact First Please.), Dagger, DYH, Ecophagy, Ged, Kraj, Pale Mage (Basic Games Only), Xyre, ZeDorkSlipeur, Emo_Pinata, pinkys_brain (Basics), pinkfloyd (Minis or Basics), ganderin_dan (Minis or Basics), Zionite, Arcadic, MandersHex (Basic Games Only), Niv, Wuffles_II, or Iso.
FTQ/PCQ/Specialties:
For FTQ, PCQ, and specialty games, contact one of the following players:
Azrael, Axelrod, Cyan, DYH, Ged, Kraj, Zionite, Niv, Wuffles_II, RobRoy, or Xyre, or any person who has previously designed and moderated a PCQ or FTQ game. The names of players who have run these games can be found in the game archive section, below.
Hosting Limit - A player may not sign up for more than one normal, mini, or specialty game at a time. Players may sign up to host one additional FTQ or one additional newb/basic basic game.
Before signing up to host, you should complete playing in at least two games on site, with another in progress or finished.
It is the responsibility of all prospective hosts to monitor their place on the lists. Hosts should be prepared to host at any time when their name is in the top three of a list. Please have your setups completed and reviewed (if not on their way to review) when you sign up to host a game. A PM will be sent out to everyone in the top 5/10 when a game is completed. If your game setup is not completed at this time, you will be pushed back 2 slots. When it is a host’s turn to make their game, they will be PMed. If they are not ready, or have a conflict, they may ask to be pushed back 2-4 slots. If they completely fail to respond to their game prompt, they will be removed from the Hosting List. If a player wishes to be re-added to the queue, they may request such, and they will be added back at the end of the hosting list. If a player does not have their setup ready the second time they are asked but have responded, they will be removed from the list.
Hosting Lists: Players listed in red on the lists are currently inactive and may be skipped.
Players listed in bold have confirmed they will be ready when their turn comes up.
Normal games are intended to be setups with a moderate degree of complication. While they may be more complicated than the traditional roles found in newbie or basic games, hosts should use their best judgment before adding offbeat or unexpected role mechanics commonly found in specialty games.
The following may never be used in a Normal game without permission from a council member.
1. A player on the replace list with a role.
2. A player not listed in the game that has an effect on the game.
3. A role with no feasible win condition. (A neutral that cannot win with town or mafia, and has no kills, for example.)
4. A role that may VOTE after death. Please confirm any post-death abilities with a reviewer even if they are not vote-related.
5. The mod having a role.
These are generally metagame roles, which have been restricted due to unplayability, infeasibility, or the fact that the average Normal game should not require its players to expect such twists that they might from a Specialty game.
Specialty games are designed to give hosts a free hand to create new and innovative game mechanics.
To sign up to Host a Specialty game, you must:
1. Have a game setup finished or near finished.
2. Submit the setup to a reviewer for review/balancing.
3. Have participated in three complete games on MTGSalvation.
The Fast-Track Queue exists to encourage flavorful, well-crafted, and uniquely enjoyable mafia designs. Instead of a normal signup process, games reach the FTQ by being nominated by the host, submitted to an authorized reviewer, and compete against other current nominations for the next FTQ slot. One of the primary advantages of the FTQ process is that there is no waiting time in order to host; as soon as the previous FTQ game ends, the next FTQ setup can post signups.
To nominate a setup to the fast-track queue, you should first private message the MafiaScribe gimmick account. Ideally, nominations should be submitted while the current fast-track game is still running, but late nominations are also welcome. In your private message you should include the name of the setup and the name of an authorized reviewer who has agreed to read the setup.
After each fast-track game ends, a committee of authorized reviewers will meet and select the next game on the queue from the current list of nominations.
For a list of authorized reviewers, refer to the top of this post.
Similar to the Fast Track Queue, a Player's Choice games will bypass the normal queue process and run immediately after they have been selected, in order to encourage the design of new, high-quality submissions. Also like the FTQ, they will require an authorized reviewer to have looked over the setup. Ordinarily, the next Player's Choice game will be selected after the completion of the previous game. However, it is possible that the council may choose to launch additional PCQ games in response to heightened demand periods.
The key difference between the PCQ and the FTQ? Community involvement. As the name would imply, it will be the commmunity's vote that determines which will be the next game to be selected for the PCQ. Also, you can submit a game to the PCQ that has already been nominated to the FTQ.
So, what do you need to do to get on the PCQ?
1. Complete your setup in advance. Make sure it's a good one.
2. Contact an authorized reviewer to work with you on your setup. (We are also looking to increase our numbers of additional authorized reviewers at this time. Please let us know if you're interested in being considered.)
3. You and/or your authorized reviewer nominate your setup by posting a pitch for the setup once the PCQ thread opens, describing relevant features of the design, perhaps providing a flavor sample, explaining why players should be interested in voting for it, as well as any areas for concern, such as balance.
How will the voting process be handled?
Since this is a bit of a grand experiment, the voting for the first PCQ will not have a pre-set time limit. We will accept nominations and votes until stated otherwise, announce a cutoff date when activity begins to slow, and then announce a final deadline for votes. The setup with the most votes by the deadline will win. In the event of a tie at deadline, the first setup to receive an additional vote will win.
Players may change which setup they are voting for at any time, though it may be more convenient for counting purposes if you reserve your bolded votes until near the conclusion of the final voting period. But by all means, feel free to comment on the setups in the meantime.
Currently, PCQ submissions are being taken by the Mafia League Judges to run in the League. If you're interested, please contact Arnnaria, our current Mafia League Bookkeeper. For questions on how voting will be handled while the League is in charge of the PCQ, please see past examples.
-Game Limit-
Players may participate in only three games at any given time. An exception to this rule can be made by moderators in need of a replacement for a game, if no other replacement can be found.
-Suicide-
If you no longer wish to participate in a game for any reason, contact the moderator. Do NOT attempt to force the moderator to modkill you.
-Current Game Discussion-
A player in an ongoing game may not discuss that game with any other player in that game, or in public forums. Also, it is a good idea to ask permission before discussing the game with anyone outside the game, because they can no longer replace into the game once any meaningful discussion takes place.
-Cryptoclaims-
Unless explicitly authorized by the game moderator in their opening rules section, cryptoclaims are forbidden.
-Out-of-game Promises-
Players may not use out-of-game promises (example: I swear on my grandmother's life, I bet you my entire collection of magic cards, etc.) in an effort to influence other players.
-Multiple Players On One Account
"Hydra" accounts - multiple people playing and posting as one player with shared access to the "gimmick" account, are not allowed unless they have prior approval from the specific game Moderator. Please do not do this on your own.
-Traitor/Alignment Switching Roles
Game moderators are strongly encouraged to be extraordinarily careful if they seek to include a traitor role in their designs. These roles are notorious for causing games to implode, for creating fairness concerns, and for the challenge they pose to the town's behavioral analysis. (See Discussion in Council Thread, Post 3351, onwards.)
Blacklist
A player who has been blacklisted may no longer play in any mafia games. The blacklist is reserved for players who seriously compromise the health of games. Blacklisted players can appeal to the mafia council if they wish to have their name removed from the list.
Edghyatt
Foilphob
Nakamura
Pawn
Russianhacka
Weaver
Probation list
Players listed below may be denied entry at the discretion of moderators, due to a history of chronic lurking, replacing, or some other activity detrimental to the game.
Players and hosts may recommend players to be added to the probation list by PMing the council once the game is concluded (Azrael, AsianInvasion, Ecophagy, atlseal), and by posting a recommendation in the hosting thread.
A host may recommend the removal of a player from this list if they participated well in said host’s game, and players have the right to petition the council for removal from the probation list.
Annorax - Self-nominated for mod WTFery
Artifice 101 - Unsportsmanlike conduct & role PM quoting
Bolly - Self-nominated for personal reasons
Dakkon33327
GiftsTrix - Chronic replacement
Gigas1- Chronic Replacement
Heartwork - Chronic Replacement
Jedcaj
Menma
Natirasha
Pod - Chronic replacement
Silent Prophet - Chronic replacement
Swinkee - Nominated for Disappearing out of Doomsday Mafia, as per the game rules.
Zchinque - Self nominated, chronic replacement
Replacement & Modkill History:
Requested Replacements:
abbeygargoyle - Inheritance
Ace - Duel Monsters
Albus - Basic #67
Alpha Werewolf - WoW: Grim Batol
Anaklusmos - The Family Returns
Annorax - Basic #65
Arnnaria - Mean Girls, Star Trek Voyager, Intrigue, Gotham Underground
ArsenalFan - Basic #24
Artifice 101 - Intrigue
atlseal - Hetalia, Kitteh Trek, The Family Returns
Battlemaster - Basic #60
beast89 - Basic #54
bert - Neon Genesis Evangelion
bilbroxain - Duel Monsters
Bman65 - Canada
Bolly - Symbiote, Basic #23, Basic #61, Basic #65, Gotham Underground
carso87 - Basic #24
ced395 - Flame Warriors
CenturySC - Basic #57
Chickenfish - Mean Girls
Clem_da_Squiggoth - Chess (Newbie #29)
Clock King - Basic #42, WoW: Grim Batol
Cropcircles - Inheritance
Dancing Mad - Seasons
Darkness Falls - Basic #42
Deathjoey - Checks & Balances
Deaths_Vampire - Star Trek Myriad Universes II, Flame Warriors
DigicoolDad - Basic #55, Basic #58
DJ Catchem - Basic #57
Dork Knight - Gotham Underground
DoubleX - Flame Warriors
DragonDart - Inheritance
Dragoon26 - Billy Goat
Drifting Skies - CCMVI
dropkickdude - Seasons
DYH - Ged's Normal Mafia
Emo_Pinata - Return to Amistaria, Hecatea
Emocakes - Basic #65
Energetic Penguin - Neon Genesis Evangelion
etherealscorpions - Basic #40, WoW
Exchangebang - #51
ExLight - CCMV
Exsam - Basic #24
Foxlet - Checks & Balances
Freddeh - Basic #64
Gamerz - Basic #24
ganderin_dan - Seasons
Gigas1 - Basic #10, Symbiote, Basic #22, Return to Amistaria
HKKID - Inheritance
ImTehFairy - Basic #64
indomitablebug - Basic #42, CCMV, Flame Warriors
infectiousbaloth - Deitriptychos
jdisawesomesauce - WoW: Grim Batol
Jobie - Checks & Balances
Jodo yodo - Persona
jomafor - Basic #53
jscolton - Hecatea
jwn - Basic #22
Kahedron - Basic #53
keifru - Hecatea
Kennethwong - Basic #21
Knifehand1371 - OFWGKTA
kpaca - Return to Amistaria
Kraj - WoW: Grim Batol
LenKenneth - Basic #62, Basic #63
leonardooo - Basic #40, Basic #42
Liquidity Crisis - Kitteh Trek
Loran16 - Oregon Trail, Inheritance, South Park
LuckNorris - Basic #42, Basic #54
MandersHex - Basic #21, Kaizers, Basic #26, Amnesia, Clue, Peso del Grande, Basic #63, The Family Returns
Miracule - Mean Girls
MirrorEntity - Intrigue
mysterymeatofdoom - Return to Amistaria, Hecatea
MzztrTetris - Basic #58, Basic #64
Newt Gingrich - Basic #61
pdr_br - Basic #64
pinkfloyd - Seasons, Deitriptychos
pinkys_brain - Kitteh Trek, Ozone Underground, Intrigue
poggydude - Ged's Normal, Intrigue
Prime Intellect - Gotham Underground
ProphetKing - Boardgame, Basic #64
Prophylaxis - Boardgame
Prplcheez - Basic #42
Raging Levine - Boardgame
red_0mega - Basic #12, Superhero, Lord of the Rings II
Rubin8or - Basic #26, Basic #24
Seppel - Basic #58
shadowfuryix - Return to Amistaria
Shinen - Final Fantasy Mafia, Basic #57, Seasons
Silent Prophet - Basic #22
Sir Mu - Basic #58
Skander - Basic #3 (Ice Cream Parlor), Tales of the Fantastic, Return to Amistaria
solorpg - Persona
Syrenz - Heroes, Return to Amistaria
Talore - Basic #21
TeknoLink - Duel Monsters
theatog - Basic #64
TheFooFish - Tales of the Fantastic
The Derpsmith - Flame Warriors
TMCT - Basic #67
tordeck - Basic #50
vampyr - Tales of the Fantastic
Weaver - Neon Genesis Evangelion
WingDamage9001 - Neon Genesis Evangelion
Wrath_of_DoG - Star Trek: Myriad Universes II, Intrigue
Xyre - Basic #65
Yanni - Basic #63
YodaVader - Canada
YossarianLives - Inheritance
yurikojasmine - Basic #62
Zebi - Basic #42
Zelderex - OFWGKTA
Forced Replacements for Inactivity/Failure to Respond to Prods/Other:
_航_ (Wataru) - Basic #26
Ace - Led Zepplin
Andelijah - Led Zepplin
AsianInvasion - Basic #13 (forum suspension)
Atogaholic - Gotham Underground
Audinho - Deitriptychos
Brofaus - Basic #61
Bulbasaur - Basic #61
buranri - Basic #24
carrion pigeons - Order of the Stick
Charmander - Basic #63
ChrisXIV - Led Zepplin, Symbiote
CropCircles - Basic #26
Dagger - Amnesia
DameTrollet - Basic #24
Dark Shadow - Gotham Underground
Deathjoey - CCMV
Deaths_Vampire - Return to Amistaria
DoubleX - Basic #59
Emo_Pinata - Checks & Balances
Flabort - Basic #65
Gamerz - Basic #64
Gamora - Basic #60
Gigas1 - WoW Mafia, Basic #60, Seasons
iPot - Basic #21
Jerubaal - Canada
joboman - Symbiote, Kaizers
johnthemaster - Neon Genesis Evangelion
Kahedron - Kitteh Trek
kpaca - OFWGKTA (Replaced due to ban)
Lady Shaiann - Basic #61
Laset - Gotham Underground
ljossberir - Basic #61
Lost_Profit - Ged's Normal
Minineko - Crackhouse
Mtg_Junkie - Romeo & Juliet (forum suspension)
mysterymeatofdoom - Hecatea
Niv - Oregon Trail, Symbiote, Ozone Underground, Gotham Underground
Paellin - Basic #23, Basic #24
pikajens - Basic #40
pinkfloyd - Basic #65
poggydude - Social Engineering (forum suspension)
Prophylaxis - Basic #64
quietfish - Hecatea, Basic #62, Star Trek Voyager
Reya Cookiebringer - Amnesia
RisingPhoenix - Ged's Normal
Roja - CCMV
Sci Solaris - Gotham Underground
Shalako - CCMVI
Shinen - Basic #67
Silent prophet/sXe - Basic #7, Highlander, Basic #36, Basic #40, Amnesia, Basic #55
Small Child - Basic #65
sonicpunk - Basic #23, Basic #24
Squeege - Basic #59
sXe - CCMVI
Tanarin - Amnesia
The hair guy - Basic #59
TheIceMan - Checks & Balances
Tordeck - CCMVI
TrainGoCartWatermill! - Basic #61
Vibebox - Hecatea
Unkyunk - Basic #22
Wolf With a Bass - Basic #63
Wrath_of_DoG - Return to Amistaria
ZasZ234 - Clue, Seasons
Modkilled:
Ambassador Laquatus/Clock King - Basic #32 (PM Quoting)
Asian Invasion - Oregon Trail (editing a post)
DRey - Kitteh Trek (Role PM quoting)
Flew - Anita Blake (Editing a post)
fluffyn00b - Basic #51 (Violating integral mafia rules)
Heartwork - Flame Warriors (failure to respond to prod)
Iso - Kitteh Trek (Paraphrasing role PM too closely)
jdisawesomesauce - Neon Genesis Evangelion (unable to locate replacement)
Jedcaj - Oregon Trail (Role PM quoting)
Kahedron - Basic #65 (Inactivity)
Kraj - WoW: Grim Batol (Unsportsmanlike Replacement)
Nakamura - Ogre (Breaking mod rule re: Contracts)
poggydude - Neon Genesis Evangelion (PM quoting), Star Trek Voyager (PM quoting), Gotham Underground (Inactivity)
Reya Cookiebringer - Neon Genesis Evangelion (unable to locate replacement)
Sepiriel - Star Trek: Myriad Universes II (failure to respond to prod)
Shadow Knight - Crackhouse (Role PM quoting)
Silent Prophet - Hecatea (failure to respond to prod)
sXe - Gotham Underground (Inactivity)
Weaver/pWnCakes - Basic #32 (PM Quoting), Basic #40 (Violating integral mafia rules), Star Trek: Myriad Universes II (PM Quoting)
Yanni - WoW: Grim Batol (quoting role PM)
Xalnop - Basic #44 (PM Quoting)
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Seconded.
Of note is that Zasz has requested a review of his game, so i'm sure he'll be off hold and starting his game next.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
I realize that I do not have a ton of expirience in the game, and that while my set up is nothing extraordinary it probably deserves to be reviewed.
I will review your newb setup if you want. I promise I won't yell.
Also hosting the newb game won't rob me of a chance to host the next FTQ right? I have a submission sent out to Az and will pass up the shot if it'll prevent me.
If it is my time and the answer to the 2nd question is no, then I'll put up signups later today.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
As soon as the newbie list is filled, the next host can start a newbie game. (Basics are still being discussed, I don't think we'd want multiples of those running just yet.)
Edit:
Yes, you will never be able to host another game, ever.
I'm kidding - no, it won't.
Go for it.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
-7 games completed.
Meow.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Oh yes,
Player A you are Urza, bat♥♥♥♥ insane walker. you have a bajillion powers, but you are insane so you don't get to control them. Instead you'll randomly use an ability on every player in the game each night.
Player B, you are Yawgmoth, ridiculously stupid random powerful non-planeswalker. You are untargetable, can kill two players a night, one player during the day, and can roleblock 3 players during hte game. Also, you can randomly turn a player to your side despite all their better sense.
Oh yes, this would work well......
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Shhh, of course evil doers fight fair. IT CLEARLY MAKES SENSE!
Also w/regards to Jedi, meh...that's just due to idiots in the EU overexpanding Jedi Powers. Besides, then you can always have ysalimiri in any star wars game to neuter jedi.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Even though it is likely to be quite a while before you would be up to host, to get on the Specialty list, you still need a set-up which has been reviewed.
Edit: well, at least in theory you did. Once. Maybe we changed that when we created the fast track. I'm not even sure anymore.
I'm on the specialty list and me and Ged have only figured out about five or six roles for the game I'll probably end up running. So I guess that rule is void?
[The Family]
DV
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Player C, you are Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker in his full glory. You are unlynchable, can daykill any player once a day, are immune to nightkills, will know all abilities targeting you every day and night (and be able to choose whether they affect you), and can once during the game immediately end one day phase or one night phase.
Oh, and you're a neutral survivor. Because you don't care who wins, you've already won.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
One of my hopes is that desegrating the two communities with the addition of basic games will help break down that dynamic and provide a bridge between the two. If it doesn't, we can consider other steps.
*raises hand*
*points to self*
That aside, I do agree with the above observation. There are definitely at least some players who no longer have any real business entering every newb game that starts. I'm wondering if the large number of newb games is not stunting the learning curve.
No takers? ;_;
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
I'll raise that in the council thread. Maybe we can also use that to cut down the ridiculous waiting time on the hosting queue.
Rafk's game seems to barely have 20 signed up, if at all, for example.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
You waited 5 hours... between 4 and 9AM on the east coast :p.
Shoot it my way; I haven't reviewed anything in a while, and I like bastard mods.
'Tings ran on a similar system. Nobody on the entire site, including me, ever played in a newb game before diving straight in. And there weren't any hiccoughs.
My question is, would we be talking about desegregating our player-bases by cutting newb-only games and encouraging both new and old players to play in basics (I can get behind this), or are we talking about eliminating the newb/basic startup regime and encouraging our newbies to jump into whatever games they think they can handle?
I can see a couple good arguments against the latter arrangement. The big one is that we lose the capacity to run newb games whenever enough players sign up. Ever since we started that program, we've been experiencing a massive influx of new players. That's pretty important for our long-term health, and I'd hate to give that up.
The other argument is the one I think you're right to attack, which is the presumption that some of the new players can't handle playing in the mini or normal list. I'd say it's true that most of them could handle it just fine. Mafia's not exactly brain surgery to pick up for the first time.
But in defense of that view, there can be some awfully screwy stuff in some of our normal and mini games sometimes, setups and role mechanics that are far more advanced than the general run of games on 'tings were. Things that would make for an intimidating experience for a minority of our first-time players, or that might raise a displeased eyebrow even from players that handled the challenge gracefully. That's worth taking into account, and providing a more controlled environment tailored to those players and those concerns.
Do I think that every new player that walks into the door has to run a newb game before they try something else? Absolutely not. I'd strongly oppose a rule requiring participation in newb games before moving on to something else. But I don't think the opposite extreme is appropriate either. The newb/basic system is a terrific growth engine, and I think we're going to have more and better players in the long-term because of it.
I think there are two problems with newb queues. One, they're cyclical - they reinforce the idea that newbs may not be qualified to participate in normal queues, so newbs keep joining newb games and the process bogs down as newbs don't leave and more and more newb games are required. And two, they reduce the benefits of playing with experienced players, as your only interactions are with the equally-new.
I can see a convincing argument for eliminating the newb queue and transferring that space to reducing the length of the normal queue by starting another normal game.
EDIT: Along with this, I think we would want to redefine the boundaries between normals (and, to a lesser extent, minis) and specialties. "Normal" games like A Sword of Ice and Fire seem like they would deter new players because of their sheer complexity. The specialty queue's length, unfortunately, seems to have created a "specialness arms race" where mods use the normal queue as a specialty queue by proxy. With better clarification, and perhaps a greater grip on who wants to play in which kinds of games, the newb queue could be phased out in favor of more traditional normal games with mixed groups of players.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
In a system where we eliminated explicit "Newbie" games altogether, would you be looking to categorize the games in this sort of manner?
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
If there's demand for smaller games, having specific queues ensures that the demand is met.
[The Family]
No roles with multiple layers. No roles or interations from dead players, replacements, hidden players, or the mod. Basic game mechanics in place - Day and Night, majority for lynch, etc.
[The Family]
*nods* This is a good argument. To the council thread!
I attempted to add something similar to this language to each of the spoilers in the hosting queue thread when I switched it over. There's probably room for improvement though, so if you'd like feel free to edit what I threw together, or we can discuss it as a body if you're more comfortable with that.
Or maybe we can simply paste that in a separate place, so that you have an explanation of each queue AND a comparison of how they all compare to one another. That might be best.
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
Well, we're not going to do that to you unless we do it to everyone. I think there's a question about whether we should kick people off lists they are already on when the rule was unclear.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Fire away.
Yes, it's not required that you give up your slot. But if you still wish to do so, that's quite possible.
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
I've played in 5 games, and this would be my first time hosting:
Newb Mafia 10
Court Mafia
Cold War Mafia
Blind Mafia
Chamber's Too much Scum
I do not currently have a setup, but because the basic games are new, I would like to see at least one or two of them finish before making mine and getting it reviewed.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
currently writing it now
That's what I figured.
do we need the "(basic)" next to some games in the queue then?