1. Players may communicate privately, within their own clan at any time.
2. The game will be starting in Night. Players will have ~4 IRL days to confirm receipt of their Role PMs and submit Night Actions, at which point I will post the Day Scene. During the Day, each player may discuss and Vote to Lynch another player. A majority is required to lynch.
3. Votes must be in bold and of the format VOTE:sneakyhomunculus. If you cast another Vote, an Unvote for the previous Vote is understood - you do not have to Unvote unless you wish to refrain from Voting at that time.
4. You may Vote to not lynch anyone. A majority of VOTE:No Lynch will end the day without a Lynch.
5. If a significant amount of time passes with little activity, a deadline to end the Day will be instituted. A Day that goes to deadline will end with No Lynch.
6. If a simple majority is reached, that player is Lynched, no take backs. The game goes to Twilight. You may continue to discuss until the Lynch Scene is posted, at which time it will be Night. Do not post in the game thread at Night. Don't get modkilled!
7. A deadline will be set for Night Actions to be submitted, typically 72 hours. In the "morning" the events of the Night will be announced. In any instance of death, the deceased's name, role, and alignment will be revealed.
8. If you die, Rest In Peace. Bah!
9. Excepting the name & role given on your Role PM, under no circumstance are you to quote from a PM sent to you by a game moderator. Paraphrase, and use caution when paraphrasing. Don't get modkilled!
10. Do not edit or delete your posts. Abuse the Post Preview function. Don't get modkilled!
11. Please do not discuss details of this game unless it is privately between your clanmembers.
12. Remember this is a game - don't take it personally that these people want to kill you. Don't g- er, Have fun!
13. This rule intentionally left blank.
The Town win condition is You win when the scum are dead!
The game ended on Day 3.
With the town (mostly) dead, the mafia win!
The Dead: Yukora, Townie Global Mod, drowned Night 0. TeknoLink, Cowardly Townie Reporter, lynched Day 1. Skander, Sane Townie Cop, stabbed in the back Day 2. Guardman, Townie, Lynched Day 2. kpaca, Townie, throttled Night 2. Caranthir Shadowlord, Townie Jailer, lynched Day 3 Sir Auron, Townie Thief, rocked Day 3. Queklain, Townie, doubleteamed Day 3.
now that my commitment to living up to Planar Chaos is complete, lets play.
eh, I got nothing.
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no, that's what's called "mass claiming", where everyone reveals what role they have. It's usually reserved for when the town is in a position where they need to get as much information into the open as possible because a missed lynch will end the game.
Mass claiming isn't a good idea if it can be avoided, since if there's a cop or doctor it reveals where they are, giving the mafia easy targets.
Right now we're just in the DATBF (derping around to be funny) stage, until someone gets enough information on someone to make a good argument for them to be scum.
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Asking out a girl is like trying to cast a first turn Necropotence. Sometimes the other player will have the Force of Will to say no. You shouldn't let that stop you from trying it.
Hmm, I wonder, since you're the last person to end the chain, does that mean you get out of this scott-free for this round? (Kinda like reverse musical chairs?)
In any case, now that all of us are properly accused...what now? These beginning days are always so slow since there is little to base assumptions on.
Asking out a girl is like trying to cast a first turn Necropotence. Sometimes the other player will have the Force of Will to say no. You shouldn't let that stop you from trying it.
Asking out a girl is like trying to cast a first turn Necropotence. Sometimes the other player will have the Force of Will to say no. You shouldn't let that stop you from trying it.
I wouldn't expect kpaca on for a couple of days as in Ghost Town he said he had swine flu.
hmm you were a little too quick to defend kpaca when he was being suspected. IF kpaca was indeed out with H1N1 wouldn't his replacement know and take his place by now?
First of all, I'd avoid voting yourself, most mods have adopted a rule that voting for yourself counts as the lynch for the day. (thankfully it's not like it this game, but still)
The first day and the early game is really not a good day to get a lot of information, for the most part it's merely a way to get everything straightened out. Unless there's something blatantly important that someone found out during the night, this will be farily boring.
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If we are to believe your first post, you know nothing about this game. However you then OMGUS kpaca, showing that you have some idea of this game. That by itself is not so bad, but your horrible reaction to just the slightest bit of pressure from kpaca (while at he same time not so subtly trying to fish him) tells me you are scum.
@Charm: You should know that D1's are useful, why are you suggesting otherwise?
Yea, swine flu is a good reason not to post that often, but his remark: "This vote may be serious" just sets alarm bells off in my head. Not to mention that he spelled my name wrong.
Fine. Since all votes are random... And because I can..
Unvote: Kpaca, Vote: Teknolink
FoS: Kpaca
Here's why I voted you. You said you had no idea what you were doing, then immedietly just did what Charmmaster did. To me, it appears you are trying far to hard to appear townie. You don't know how to correctly put up a town facade as scum, so you figured the best thing would be to just do what someone more experienced had done. I didn't explain this then because I wanted to see what you did next, which was OMGUS vote, which actually works somewhat contrary to the newb card you originally played.
hmm you were a little too quick to defend kpaca when he was being suspected. IF kpaca was indeed out with H1N1 wouldn't his replacement know and take his place by now?
If we are to believe your first post, you know nothing about this game. However you then OMGUS kpaca, showing that you have some idea of this game. That by itself is not so bad, but your horrible reaction to just the slightest bit of pressure from kpaca (while at he same time not so subtly trying to fish him) tells me you are scum.
@Charm: You should know that D1's are useful, why are you suggesting otherwise?
What exactly are you hoping to accomplish by asking that question? It is a loaded question, and you word it to make CM look bad, so it is obvious that you have already pre-decided how you will feel about CM without even hearing his answer. It is also a question that doesn't need to be asked. It is apparent that CM does not hold the same opinion about Day 1 as you. You can certainly disagree with him, say so, and engage a discussion, but there is no reason to ask a question in which you are already painting him as a liar. FOS: Skander.
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What exactly are you hoping to accomplish by asking that question? It is a loaded question, and you word it to make CM look bad, so it is obvious that you have already pre-decided how you will feel about CM without even hearing his answer. It is also a question that doesn't need to be asked. It is apparent that CM does not hold the same opinion about Day 1 as you. You can certainly disagree with him, say so, and engage a discussion, but there is no reason to ask a question in which you are already painting him as a liar. FOS: Skander.
I do not believe room exists for an experienced player like CharmMaster to actually believe that D1 is useless.
Then why bother to ask a loaded question like that? Why not just push the attack so to speak, and call him on what you have already decided is a lie?
However, I will tell you it is clearly not a purposeful lie. Firstly, certain people just have different views on mafia theory, and that's just how they are (look at Tilde for instance). Seconly, Charmmaster knows that he's not going to easily mislead newbs by stating something blatantly wrong on purpose, because both me, you, and Guardman have played enough to catch such a thing. He wouldn't say that if that's not how he honestly felt about it. Also he said it was boring, not useless. In fact, he didn't say it was useless at all. Apparently it is just of his opinion that Day 1 doesn't provide a lot of info during day 1, which is somewhat true. A lot of the information from day 1 becomes much more relevant on day 2 and beyond.
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I'm not as experienced as many of you, but i do think that day1 is the least useful, not useless by any means, but far less useful than the other days.
It seems we have our first wagon here. It seems to me Teknolink is trying hard to play his newb card, i don't think that's enough to vote him now, but i'd like to see his reaction under pressure.
FoS Teknolink
If you support the wagon, why are you avoiding putting your vote on it?
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Then why bother to ask a loaded question like that? Why not just push the attack so to speak, and call him on what you have already decided is a lie?
There's not much difference between asking him a question that strongly implies I don't believe him and saying "I don't believe you" except that the way I did it actually gives him a chance to answer first. There is little doubt in my mind that whatever he answers will not be adequate but still.
However, I will tell you it is clearly not a purposeful lie. Firstly, certain people just have different views on mafia theory, and that's just how they are (look at Tilde for instance). Seconly, Charmmaster knows that he's not going to easily mislead newbs by stating something blatantly wrong on purpose, because both me, you, and Guardman have played enough to catch such a thing. He wouldn't say that if that's not how he honestly felt about it. Also he said it was boring, not useless. In fact, he didn't say it was useless at all. Apparently it is just of his opinion that Day 1 doesn't provide a lot of info during day 1, which is somewhat true. A lot of the information from day 1 becomes much more relevant on day 2 and beyond.
Here is what he said:
The first day and the early game is really not a good day to get a lot of information, for the most part it's merely a way to get everything straightened out. Unless there's something blatantly important that someone found out during the night, this will be farily boring.
This strongly implies he does not find D1 to be useful. He says it is mainlyt a way to get things sorted out and will be fairly boring unless someone has something important from night actions.
I do see your point though that it would not make sense for him to try to pull one over the inexperienced players with several other experienced players in the game, but I really do not understand how this stance can be genuine.
I would prefer to hear from Charm Master before discussing this further.
Okay, it's a barn vote. Elaborate more on what you think about that. Pointing out a fact without making any directional judgment about it is almost as useless as asking a loaded question.
Also, I find your response to my vote to be particularly smarmy and rather contrarty to how I would expect you to react if you were town. That's the type of response I think I would actually give as scum come to think of it.
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Okay, it's a barn vote. Elaborate more on what you think about that. Pointing out a fact without making any directional judgment about it is almost as useless as asking a loaded question.
He jumped on the first chance at a wagon on me, using purely the reasoning he saw you post. Normally newb players are more cautious about these things. I see this as him just trying to redirect attention away from himself on to me.
Also, I find your response to my vote to be particularly smarmy and rather contrarty to how I would expect you to react if you were town. That's the type of response I think I would actually give as scum come to think of it.
I wasn't trying to be smarmy. You said you didn't like my post, with no elaboration as to what you didn't like about it. I therefore cannot help you.
He jumped on the first chance at a wagon on me, using purely the reasoning he saw you post. Normally newb players are more cautious about these things. I see this as him just trying to redirect attention away from himself on to me.
I wasn't trying to be smarmy. You said you didn't like my post, with no elaboration as to what you didn't like about it. I therefore cannot help you.
Some newbs are cautious, some are sheep. Remember that.
True I didn't elaborate, but I would expect you as town to question that, because you usually question those sort of things.
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If you support the wagon, why are you avoiding putting your vote on it?
This. While it's still early if you feel like the wagon is worth supporting, you should vote it.
Vote Shadowlord
as for the whole "newb card" thing, it's a null tell IMO, save for the obvious experienced players. I guess we'll see how it develops.
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Did you even read my post?
You know the part i say that i think it's to early to jump on the wagon?
I said i'd like to see how he reacts
So you're wagoning me, for mentioning that there is a wagon, that i didn't want to get on? You just quote Kpaca's post that already seems weak to me. That seems quite suspiciosu to me.
Vote Charm_Master3125
Why is it to early to jump on a wagon? Also how are you pressuring him if you aren't voting? FOS's don't do anything.
Also your vote is extreme OMGUS.
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It is common for scum players, especially inexperienced ones, to overvalue something like a FOS, thereby allowing them to tacitly give approval to a wagon, while not being on the wagon itself. This gives you an out for when a lynched player flips town, as it allows you to avoid any heat for the mislynch.
Also, I have a question about your statement that scum tend to jump on wagons without making any comments. Can you provide any sort of examples to back this up?
Finally, the wagon wasn't even about his newb card, so why are you painting it like that to begin with? All you did there was try and add some fuel to the fire, without helping to cook the meat.
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Perhaps but given Teknolink' behaviour so far, this is just another indicator that he is scum.
Like I said I don't want to discuss it further until CM responds.
Are you going to address the D1 issue?
How is that quote by me pointing to another indicator that he is scum?
Also, you responding like you did has absolutely nothing to do with CM responding, it is completely detached from that issues, as it is a separate thing all together. I defy you to explain otherwise and not sound completely obtuse.
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I'm not as experienced as many of you, but i do think that day1 is the least useful, not useless by any means, but far less useful than the other days.
It seems we have our first wagon here. It seems to me Teknolink is trying hard to play his newb card, i don't think that's enough to vote him now, but i'd like to see his reaction under pressure.
FoS Teknolink
FOSing rather than voting isn't putting any pressure on. If you want to see how he reacts to pressure, try actually applying it. FOS Shadowlord
Did you even read my post?
You know the part i say that i think it's to early to jump on the wagon?
I said i'd like to see how he reacts
So you're wagoning me, for mentioning that there is a wagon, that i didn't want to get on? You just quote Kpaca's post that already seems weak to me. That seems quite suspiciosu to me.
Vote Charm_Master3125
So you want to see how he reacts to pressure, but you don't want to put any pressure on yourself? This + OMGUS vote = you are scummy. Still FOS Shadowlord
Skander/Kpaca, I have never played a mafia game, but obviously I have read up on theory. If I didn't, I would be a bad clan leader.
I just didn't know that voting myself could get myself lynched.
So now..
Vote Skander
Skander, it seems you're out here to put the blame on Charm Master, I have to go with Kpaca here.
Still FOS Teknolink
I get mostly a n00b town vibe from you, for now at least. For future reference, don't just say "I agree with Player X." You have to play the game and generate your own arguments.
There's not much difference between asking him a question that strongly implies I don't believe him and saying "I don't believe you" except that the way I did it actually gives him a chance to answer first. There is little doubt in my mind that whatever he answers will not be adequate but still.
A loaded question isn't the best way to do that, though. If you really want an answer, ask a legitimate question. If you really don't believe him, say it and keep going.
The first day and the early game is really not a good day to get a lot of information, for the most part it's merely a way to get everything straightened out. Unless there's something blatantly important that someone found out during the night, this will be farily boring.
This strongly implies he does not find D1 to be useful. He says it is mainlyt a way to get things sorted out and will be fairly boring unless someone has something important from night actions.
No, it could mean he does not find D1 useful during D1. The analysis of D1 during N1 and the reaction to D1 on D2 is where the information comes from. In a way, D1 is just a way to get everything in order to go back and compare to later. The info D1 generates doesn't present itself until the game progresses.
All of that aside, people have different takes on theory/play styles/whatever. If we based votes solely on that, I'd likely vote for kpaca every game.
That said, Skander's posts seem particularly scummy considering his experience.
Vote Skander
Oh, and FOS Sir Auron and Castle for not having shown up yet.
Asking out a girl is like trying to cast a first turn Necropotence. Sometimes the other player will have the Force of Will to say no. You shouldn't let that stop you from trying it.
How is that quote by me pointing to another indicator that he is scum?
The point about Teknolink hastily jumping on to me after you voted me...
Also, you responding like you did has absolutely nothing to do with CM responding, it is completely detached from that issues, as it is a separate thing all together. I defy you to explain otherwise and not sound completely obtuse.
You finding my post bad may have been related to some things I said regarding Charm in that post - I don't know. I did not want to get back into the argument with you regarding Charm until he has responded.
The point about Teknolink hastily jumping on to me after you voted me...
So you say newbs are cautious when town. I say, they are also often sheep. How does this turn into a scum tell? Here's a hint, it doesn't.
You finding my post bad may have been related to some things I said regarding Charm in that post - I don't know. I did not want to get back into the argument with you regarding Charm until he has responded.
That is a major back track from your last response as to why you answered me awkwardly. I wish we had a digging smiley.
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I haven't playe that many games and i'm a bit lazy to search, but i've seen it in a couple of games including previous clan mafia.
Please find an example to back this up. Too lazy to back up your arguments doesn't cut it in mafia.
It's pretty clear the wagon is about him playing the newb card, you even mention it in your own post...
Mentioning the newb card does not equal a wagon against him because of the newb card. As you may notice in the part you underlined, I was mostly voting over the mindset tell I was gettting from how he placed his FOS to mimmick Charmmaster. It's clearly not what the wagon is about.
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If you don't see how that vote of his was scummy, I'm afraid I can't help you.
I don't know what you're trying to say here.
@Shadowlord: My vote was mainly because of his bad reaction to slight pressure; the newb card was a small point.
I'd really like you to justify to me how my statement that you quoted makes him more scummy. You tried to explain it, did so poorly, I called you on it again, and now you have decided to just try and paint me as ignorant instead of logically explaining things. You are so ridiculously scummy right now that I am genuinely surprised. What you have just employed is some what of a logical fallacy known as appeal to ridicule.
As for what I am trying to say: I am trying to say that you are bafcktracking as to why you responded like you did. First you tried to rationalize it as just natural reaction, now you are rationalizing it as something to do with CM, which is terribad.
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Yeah. I worked literally all weekend...:sweat:. I'm off until Thursday though:D
And since I'm here, rather late to the party apparently:sweat:, may I ask what FoS means?
It means Finger of Suspicion. It's a way to say you feel someone is suspicious but not enough to place a vote on them at the moment, or you feel someone else warrants the vote more.
Asking out a girl is like trying to cast a first turn Necropotence. Sometimes the other player will have the Force of Will to say no. You shouldn't let that stop you from trying it.
It means Finger of Suspicion. It's a way to say you feel someone is suspicious but not enough to place a vote on them at the moment, or you feel someone else warrants the vote more.
Thanks
That being said, after reading the last few pages and some consideration, I'll point my finger now. (Man, I feel like a n00b for doing this so late....)
Vote: TeknoLink
while I point a finger at two at : FOS Shadowlord for playing innocent and Skander because some of his posts seem shady...
We haven't heard from Sir Auron_25 and Castle yet, busy weekend?
Busy weekend indeed! I'm currently holidaying in Bali, but shouldn't have any dramas getting online from here on...
Not sure about some of the arguments being levelled at Teknolink, most of his activity appears to be that of an inexperienced player throwing themselves in the deep end than anything else, and I haven't made up my mind as to whether or not that's motivated by a desire not to appear scummy or by simply wanting to dive into the game head first (which is admirable).
Given my absence (and I apologise for that), there's a lot to take in in one go, but something doesn't quite sit right with me about the way Skander's targetted Teknolink. I would elaborate right now, but my time on the hotel's Internet is just about up - I'll gladly discuss things further when I get online later today.
That being said, after reading the last few pages and some consideration, I'll point my finger now. (Man, I feel like a n00b for doing this so late....)
Vote: TeknoLink
while I point a finger at two at : FOS Shadowlord for playing innocent and Skander because some of his posts seem shady...
I'd love for you to reasons for all of these bolded things, especially since you basically came and agree to every wagon in the game.
For instance, how can you be suspicious of Skander and Teknolink? There is probably an almost zero percent chance they are scum buddies.
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Fascinating. From nothing to L-2 in just a couple of hours.
Kpaca for all that you believe that I'm scum do you really have confidence that this quick bandwagon (with no one adding any reasoning at all to your initial suspicions) is from townies?
If you still maintain that I'm scum I guess I will claim but I'm just flabbergasted how quickly this went down.
Yes, I am extremely confidant, despite the speed. I would like the claim. After you claim, since I am online, I will unvote, but only so Guardman and Waymcy can weigh in and so a few questions can be answered from SirAuron and Charmmaster.
However, you can basically consider my vote on you for record keeping purposes.
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2. The game will be starting in Night. Players will have ~4 IRL days to confirm receipt of their Role PMs and submit Night Actions, at which point I will post the Day Scene. During the Day, each player may discuss and Vote to Lynch another player. A majority is required to lynch.
3. Votes must be in bold and of the format VOTE:sneakyhomunculus. If you cast another Vote, an Unvote for the previous Vote is understood - you do not have to Unvote unless you wish to refrain from Voting at that time.
4. You may Vote to not lynch anyone. A majority of VOTE:No Lynch will end the day without a Lynch.
5. If a significant amount of time passes with little activity, a deadline to end the Day will be instituted. A Day that goes to deadline will end with No Lynch.
6. If a simple majority is reached, that player is Lynched, no take backs. The game goes to Twilight. You may continue to discuss until the Lynch Scene is posted, at which time it will be Night. Do not post in the game thread at Night. Don't get modkilled!
7. A deadline will be set for Night Actions to be submitted, typically 72 hours. In the "morning" the events of the Night will be announced. In any instance of death, the deceased's name, role, and alignment will be revealed.
8. If you die, Rest In Peace. Bah!
9. Excepting the name & role given on your Role PM, under no circumstance are you to quote from a PM sent to you by a game moderator. Paraphrase, and use caution when paraphrasing. Don't get modkilled!
10. Do not edit or delete your posts. Abuse the Post Preview function. Don't get modkilled!
11. Please do not discuss details of this game unless it is privately between your clanmembers.
12. Remember this is a game - don't take it personally that these people want to kill you. Don't g- er, Have fun!
13. This rule intentionally left blank.
The game ended on Day 3.
With the town (mostly) dead, the mafia win!
Vote Count 3.3 - Twilight
Vote Count 3.2
Deadline set for New Year's Eve
Vote Count 3.1
Vote Count 3.0
Day 3
Day 2 Lynch
Vote Count 2.1
Vote Count 2.0
Daykill!
Day 2
Day 1 Lynch
Vote Count 1.1
Vote Count 1.0
Dragoon26, Mafia Roleblocker
Charm_Master3125, Mafia Flexigoon
wamyc, Townie Hobo
Castle, Mafia Godfather
The Dead:
Yukora, Townie Global Mod, drowned Night 0.
TeknoLink, Cowardly Townie Reporter, lynched Day 1.
Skander, Sane Townie Cop, stabbed in the back Day 2.
Guardman, Townie, Lynched Day 2.
kpaca, Townie, throttled Night 2.
Caranthir
Shadowlord, Townie Jailer, lynched Day 3Sir Auron, Townie Thief, rocked Day 3.
Queklain, Townie, doubleteamed Day 3.
No one says anything at first. Several of you move the body in doors. One of you searches him for identification, mumbling '. . .just to be sure.'
Yukora was Yukora, Townie Global Mod.
It is now Day 1.
With 11 players alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
The Living:
Queklain
TeknoLink
Dragoon26
Sir Auron25
kpaca
Charm_Master3125
Guardman
Skander
wamyc
Castle
Shadowlord
The Dead:
Yukora, Townie Global Mod, drowned Night 0.
FoS Everyone
now that my commitment to living up to Planar Chaos is complete, lets play.
eh, I got nothing.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Mass claiming isn't a good idea if it can be avoided, since if there's a cop or doctor it reveals where they are, giving the mafia easy targets.
Right now we're just in the DATBF (derping around to be funny) stage, until someone gets enough information on someone to make a good argument for them to be scum.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Random Vote: Shadowlord for not voting or FOSing in your first post
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This vote may be serious.
For thinking mafia is serious business.
Not yet.
Vote Wamyc
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Mindsplicer of [House Dimir]
Vote Queklain ?
Hmm, I wonder, since you're the last person to end the chain, does that mean you get out of this scott-free for this round? (Kinda like reverse musical chairs?)
In any case, now that all of us are properly accused...what now? These beginning days are always so slow since there is little to base assumptions on.
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I wouldn't expect kpaca on for a couple of days as in Ghost Town he said he had swine flu.
You're acting kinda nervous, buddy.
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hmm you were a little too quick to defend kpaca when he was being suspected. IF kpaca was indeed out with H1N1 wouldn't his replacement know and take his place by now?
Since I have no better evidence to base votes on:
Vote: Guardman
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First of all, I'd avoid voting yourself, most mods have adopted a rule that voting for yourself counts as the lynch for the day. (thankfully it's not like it this game, but still)
The first day and the early game is really not a good day to get a lot of information, for the most part it's merely a way to get everything straightened out. Unless there's something blatantly important that someone found out during the night, this will be farily boring.
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Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
If we are to believe your first post, you know nothing about this game. However you then OMGUS kpaca, showing that you have some idea of this game. That by itself is not so bad, but your horrible reaction to just the slightest bit of pressure from kpaca (while at he same time not so subtly trying to fish him) tells me you are scum.
@Charm: You should know that D1's are useful, why are you suggesting otherwise?
I was unaware that spelling would be counted against me.
Here's why I voted you. You said you had no idea what you were doing, then immedietly just did what Charmmaster did. To me, it appears you are trying far to hard to appear townie. You don't know how to correctly put up a town facade as scum, so you figured the best thing would be to just do what someone more experienced had done. I didn't explain this then because I wanted to see what you did next, which was OMGUS vote, which actually works somewhat contrary to the newb card you originally played.
Swine flu doesn't last a month you know.
What exactly are you hoping to accomplish by asking that question? It is a loaded question, and you word it to make CM look bad, so it is obvious that you have already pre-decided how you will feel about CM without even hearing his answer. It is also a question that doesn't need to be asked. It is apparent that CM does not hold the same opinion about Day 1 as you. You can certainly disagree with him, say so, and engage a discussion, but there is no reason to ask a question in which you are already painting him as a liar. FOS: Skander.
I do not believe room exists for an experienced player like CharmMaster to actually believe that D1 is useless.
However, I will tell you it is clearly not a purposeful lie. Firstly, certain people just have different views on mafia theory, and that's just how they are (look at Tilde for instance). Seconly, Charmmaster knows that he's not going to easily mislead newbs by stating something blatantly wrong on purpose, because both me, you, and Guardman have played enough to catch such a thing. He wouldn't say that if that's not how he honestly felt about it. Also he said it was boring, not useless. In fact, he didn't say it was useless at all. Apparently it is just of his opinion that Day 1 doesn't provide a lot of info during day 1, which is somewhat true. A lot of the information from day 1 becomes much more relevant on day 2 and beyond.
If you support the wagon, why are you avoiding putting your vote on it?
There's not much difference between asking him a question that strongly implies I don't believe him and saying "I don't believe you" except that the way I did it actually gives him a chance to answer first. There is little doubt in my mind that whatever he answers will not be adequate but still.
Here is what he said:
This strongly implies he does not find D1 to be useful. He says it is mainlyt a way to get things sorted out and will be fairly boring unless someone has something important from night actions.
I do see your point though that it would not make sense for him to try to pull one over the inexperienced players with several other experienced players in the game, but I really do not understand how this stance can be genuine.
I would prefer to hear from Charm Master before discussing this further.
You still seem a little wishy-washy, but I'm willing to accept the newb pass for now.
unvote: Vote Skander.
Not liking your last post in the slightest.
How do you know what OMGUS is but not know what happens at the beginning of a game?
This is a barn vote. Possibly also OMGUS.
Can't help you there.
Also, I find your response to my vote to be particularly smarmy and rather contrarty to how I would expect you to react if you were town. That's the type of response I think I would actually give as scum come to think of it.
I wasn't trying to be smarmy. You said you didn't like my post, with no elaboration as to what you didn't like about it. I therefore cannot help you.
Some newbs are cautious, some are sheep. Remember that.
True I didn't elaborate, but I would expect you as town to question that, because you usually question those sort of things.
This. While it's still early if you feel like the wagon is worth supporting, you should vote it.
Vote Shadowlord
as for the whole "newb card" thing, it's a null tell IMO, save for the obvious experienced players. I guess we'll see how it develops.
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Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Thoughts on Skander?
While the tell on Shadowlord is certainly valid, it doesn't equate to whats coming from Skander atm.
Why is it to early to jump on a wagon? Also how are you pressuring him if you aren't voting? FOS's don't do anything.
Also your vote is extreme OMGUS.
Perhaps but given Teknolink' behaviour so far, this is just another indicator that he is scum.
Like I said I don't want to discuss it further until CM responds.
Are you going to address the D1 issue?
It is common for scum players, especially inexperienced ones, to overvalue something like a FOS, thereby allowing them to tacitly give approval to a wagon, while not being on the wagon itself. This gives you an out for when a lynched player flips town, as it allows you to avoid any heat for the mislynch.
Also, I have a question about your statement that scum tend to jump on wagons without making any comments. Can you provide any sort of examples to back this up?
Finally, the wagon wasn't even about his newb card, so why are you painting it like that to begin with? All you did there was try and add some fuel to the fire, without helping to cook the meat.
How is that quote by me pointing to another indicator that he is scum?
Also, you responding like you did has absolutely nothing to do with CM responding, it is completely detached from that issues, as it is a separate thing all together. I defy you to explain otherwise and not sound completely obtuse.
FOSing rather than voting isn't putting any pressure on. If you want to see how he reacts to pressure, try actually applying it. FOS Shadowlord
EWP:
So you want to see how he reacts to pressure, but you don't want to put any pressure on yourself? This + OMGUS vote = you are scummy. Still FOS Shadowlord
Still FOS Teknolink
I get mostly a n00b town vibe from you, for now at least. For future reference, don't just say "I agree with Player X." You have to play the game and generate your own arguments.
A loaded question isn't the best way to do that, though. If you really want an answer, ask a legitimate question. If you really don't believe him, say it and keep going.
No, it could mean he does not find D1 useful during D1. The analysis of D1 during N1 and the reaction to D1 on D2 is where the information comes from. In a way, D1 is just a way to get everything in order to go back and compare to later. The info D1 generates doesn't present itself until the game progresses.
All of that aside, people have different takes on theory/play styles/whatever. If we based votes solely on that, I'd likely vote for kpaca every game.
That said, Skander's posts seem particularly scummy considering his experience.
Vote Skander
Oh, and FOS Sir Auron and Castle for not having shown up yet.
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You finding my post bad may have been related to some things I said regarding Charm in that post - I don't know. I did not want to get back into the argument with you regarding Charm until he has responded.
So you say newbs are cautious when town. I say, they are also often sheep. How does this turn into a scum tell? Here's a hint, it doesn't.
That is a major back track from your last response as to why you answered me awkwardly. I wish we had a digging smiley.
Please find an example to back this up. Too lazy to back up your arguments doesn't cut it in mafia.
Mentioning the newb card does not equal a wagon against him because of the newb card. As you may notice in the part you underlined, I was mostly voting over the mindset tell I was gettting from how he placed his FOS to mimmick Charmmaster. It's clearly not what the wagon is about.
If you don't see how that vote of his was scummy, I'm afraid I can't help you.
I don't know what you're trying to say here.
@Shadowlord: My vote was mainly because of his bad reaction to slight pressure; the newb card was a small point.
I'd really like you to justify to me how my statement that you quoted makes him more scummy. You tried to explain it, did so poorly, I called you on it again, and now you have decided to just try and paint me as ignorant instead of logically explaining things. You are so ridiculously scummy right now that I am genuinely surprised. What you have just employed is some what of a logical fallacy known as appeal to ridicule.
As for what I am trying to say: I am trying to say that you are bafcktracking as to why you responded like you did. First you tried to rationalize it as just natural reaction, now you are rationalizing it as something to do with CM, which is terribad.
Yeah. I worked literally all weekend...:sweat:. I'm off until Thursday though:D
And since I'm here, rather late to the party apparently:sweat:, may I ask what FoS means?
It means Finger of Suspicion. It's a way to say you feel someone is suspicious but not enough to place a vote on them at the moment, or you feel someone else warrants the vote more.
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Thanks
That being said, after reading the last few pages and some consideration, I'll point my finger now. (Man, I feel like a n00b for doing this so late....)
Vote: TeknoLink
while I point a finger at two at : FOS Shadowlord for playing innocent and Skander because some of his posts seem shady...
Not sure about some of the arguments being levelled at Teknolink, most of his activity appears to be that of an inexperienced player throwing themselves in the deep end than anything else, and I haven't made up my mind as to whether or not that's motivated by a desire not to appear scummy or by simply wanting to dive into the game head first (which is admirable).
Given my absence (and I apologise for that), there's a lot to take in in one go, but something doesn't quite sit right with me about the way Skander's targetted Teknolink. I would elaborate right now, but my time on the hotel's Internet is just about up - I'll gladly discuss things further when I get online later today.
FOS - Teknolink
Vote - Skander
I'd love for you to reasons for all of these bolded things, especially since you basically came and agree to every wagon in the game.
For instance, how can you be suspicious of Skander and Teknolink? There is probably an almost zero percent chance they are scum buddies.
Kpaca for all that you believe that I'm scum do you really have confidence that this quick bandwagon (with no one adding any reasoning at all to your initial suspicions) is from townies?
If you still maintain that I'm scum I guess I will claim but I'm just flabbergasted how quickly this went down.
However, you can basically consider my vote on you for record keeping purposes.