Ok, everyone knows how this works, we play cheap, efficent creatures early, and proceed to bludgen the opponent to death. Discard is there for 2 fold, A) to gain early card advantage in the form of Hymn, and B) to take away cards that could be problematic, shut us down, or give them the ability to win. A very strong turn 1 play is swamp, dark rit, duress, hymn. Outside of Goblins, not many decks can come back from that kind of early disruption, and as for us losing the same amount of cards, we can survive that, cause we aren't combo, or others decks that have to have a lot of cards. That is where Confidant comes in, he regains us that card advantage, and will rarely have us lose more than 2 life per turn, except if we hit dross golemn or contagion. Which is where they come in, Contagion is nice cause it is free removal, but is not critical, and I may just take them out for 2 more Crusaders. Dross Golem is there for 2 reasons A) I do not have Nantuko Shades, and B) he isn't all that bad of a creature, turn 3 he is a 3/2 creature with fear for only 2 mana, and he gives us a pretty good creature late game if we cant win the early game. Now i have Factories in here instead of Wasteland because I have found that I prefer to have a 2/2 for 1 with "protection from sorceries" that can carry Jitte or Sword, than a 1 for 1 trade in wasteland. Yes I understand the power of Wasteland, but we want to win the early game, not waste time making it so they won't have a late game when they should just lose before late game. I also put a teched copy of Stronghold in there so we can get back previously fallen Confidants if need be, or any other creature. It has crossed my mind to put white in here for Swords to plowshares, disenchant, vindicate, and especially for this little known Saviors rare, Promise of Bunrei. With this, after wrath, I still have 4 1/1s, after I trade in combat, after my Confidant gets hit by a kill spell, it is so great because it allows me to still put the pressure on them. I would like to here opinions about this option.
Thank you for taking your time to read this, and I am open to all suggestions, but please give reasons for them, as I want to see my mistakes and how I could do better next time.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Avatar and Banner made by R&Doom of the Ye Olde Sig and Avatar Shoppe
No Phyrexian Negator? If your meta is burn heavy I can see why, but otherwise it's awesome. First turn dark rit into negator is rough.
In my experience, you don't need both Carnophage and Sarcomancy in most cases. I seem to do perfectly fine with just the Sarcomancys.
Since you said you can't afford the Nantuko Shades, you probably can't afford the Sinkholes that would also be nasty (combined with Wastelands). It isn't neccessary, but it's mean (I enjoy turn two Dark Rit + Sinkhole + Hymn/Confidant).
Yes, my meta is very burn heavy, so Negator is out of the question. The reason for Carnophage and Sarcomancy, is so that I get a very nice turn 1 play, if I don't get a Dark Rit in my opening hand. I also plan on putting some Diabolic Edicts in here cause one guy uses Korlash in his deck, and it pisses me off, because if I can't race him with creatures, he just beats me down with Korlash, I may splash for white so I can get Swords, Disenchant, and the Promise of Bunrei. By the way, can I get some opinions about that last card, is it worth the splash or not?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Avatar and Banner made by R&Doom of the Ye Olde Sig and Avatar Shoppe
I don't believe Promise is worth splashing for for the most part.
If you are going to splash white, the most important card to include is Vindicate. If you can't get those, then Mortify can substitute (at instant speed it takes care of your creature/enchantment problems). That's the number one reason to splash white in my opinion.
Diabolic Edict is definately worth considering. I enjoy using it.
With the 5 equipments, I would go with more evasion creatures. Dauthi slayer, dauthi horror, and\or vampire bats. I also agree with mattkru, smother kills alot of nasty creatures in the format. Contagion is a good card but I would drop it or move it to the s\b.Maybe replace them with smallpox. I don't think I would splash white, I would go for the speed instead of control.
Had to put in the Engineered Plagues mainboard due to rampant goblins/slivers/clerics in our meta.
The Black Knight and Hand of Cruelty are really good against fish and most decks that load-up STPs, and are pretty hefty when equipped with Jitte also because of their respective first strike and bushido ability.
Withered Wretch was put in mainboard to help cut recurring manlands with COW in play (landstill decks) and are pretty handy when in comes to narco-bridge decks.
Couldn't find an empty slot for duress but kept it in my sideboard just in case
Smother is really good when it comes to most match-ups and really does kill goyfs. diabolic edict is there to provide support for critters you can't target.
Umezawa's Jitte provides the back-up for creature kills as well as acceleration for the damage (+2/+2 ability).
If the meta is combo after combo. I suggest mono black for duress , hymn to tourach and unmask. If the meta is control, aggro-control, I suggest playing Red Death as PoT suggested.
Do things still get merged around here? It's been a while.
I was trying to post to contend with POT's statement of those creatures being necessary, as build depending they certainly aren't. Shades aside They can be too expensive or too slow/dangerous, depending on the aim of the build. This kind of deck necessitates Swamps, Dark Ritual, Duress, and Hymn to Tourach, after that it get's a little fuzzy.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I edit after I post... just a heads up.
Currently Running Legacy: Burn; Various Stompy's; Food Chain Goblins; FC Elves Standard: Junk Super Friends, Elf-Wave Elder Dragon Highlander: Animar, Skithiryx, Bosh, Konda, Wort, Ezuri, Patron of the Moon
I don't like the use of Volrath's Stronghold in any deck that doesn't have a means to fetch it or play it from the grave. I ran it as a one of to provide me a few things in the deck that I ran it in, BWU Braids. It provided me another Lock piece. It often would allow me to force Solidarity to go off because of LD, only to have them turn my library into my grave, and for me to use Crucible to replay it and lock them out of the game. In a deck with no way to fetch it, and no way to abuse it, I don't see the reason for running it. It isn't Anti Control, as you have lots of better disruption for that.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In Vintage (Type 1) > Budget Deck Discussion forum:
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Contagion
4 Duress
3 Sarcomancy
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Dark Ritual
4 Knight of Stromgald
4 Dross Golem
4 Carnophage
4 Dark Confidant
3 Engineered Plague
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Pithing Needle
4 Cabal Therapy
Ok, everyone knows how this works, we play cheap, efficent creatures early, and proceed to bludgen the opponent to death. Discard is there for 2 fold, A) to gain early card advantage in the form of Hymn, and B) to take away cards that could be problematic, shut us down, or give them the ability to win. A very strong turn 1 play is swamp, dark rit, duress, hymn. Outside of Goblins, not many decks can come back from that kind of early disruption, and as for us losing the same amount of cards, we can survive that, cause we aren't combo, or others decks that have to have a lot of cards. That is where Confidant comes in, he regains us that card advantage, and will rarely have us lose more than 2 life per turn, except if we hit dross golemn or contagion. Which is where they come in, Contagion is nice cause it is free removal, but is not critical, and I may just take them out for 2 more Crusaders. Dross Golem is there for 2 reasons A) I do not have Nantuko Shades, and B) he isn't all that bad of a creature, turn 3 he is a 3/2 creature with fear for only 2 mana, and he gives us a pretty good creature late game if we cant win the early game. Now i have Factories in here instead of Wasteland because I have found that I prefer to have a 2/2 for 1 with "protection from sorceries" that can carry Jitte or Sword, than a 1 for 1 trade in wasteland. Yes I understand the power of Wasteland, but we want to win the early game, not waste time making it so they won't have a late game when they should just lose before late game. I also put a teched copy of Stronghold in there so we can get back previously fallen Confidants if need be, or any other creature. It has crossed my mind to put white in here for Swords to plowshares, disenchant, vindicate, and especially for this little known Saviors rare, Promise of Bunrei. With this, after wrath, I still have 4 1/1s, after I trade in combat, after my Confidant gets hit by a kill spell, it is so great because it allows me to still put the pressure on them. I would like to here opinions about this option.
Thank you for taking your time to read this, and I am open to all suggestions, but please give reasons for them, as I want to see my mistakes and how I could do better next time.
Avatar and Banner made by R&Doom of the Ye Olde Sig and Avatar Shoppe
On the topic of Moat:
In my experience, you don't need both Carnophage and Sarcomancy in most cases. I seem to do perfectly fine with just the Sarcomancys.
Since you said you can't afford the Nantuko Shades, you probably can't afford the Sinkholes that would also be nasty (combined with Wastelands). It isn't neccessary, but it's mean (I enjoy turn two Dark Rit + Sinkhole + Hymn/Confidant).
Avatar and Banner made by R&Doom of the Ye Olde Sig and Avatar Shoppe
On the topic of Moat:
If you are going to splash white, the most important card to include is Vindicate. If you can't get those, then Mortify can substitute (at instant speed it takes care of your creature/enchantment problems). That's the number one reason to splash white in my opinion.
Diabolic Edict is definately worth considering. I enjoy using it.
4 Wasteland
4 Dark Confidant
4 Hypnotic Specter
4 Hand of Cruelty
3 Mesmeric Fiend
2 Black Knight
2 Withered Wretch
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Diabolic Edict
3 Smother
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Engineered Plague
3 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Duress
4 Null Rod
3 Planar Void
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Engineered Plague
2 Mutilate
Had to put in the Engineered Plagues mainboard due to rampant goblins/slivers/clerics in our meta.
The Black Knight and Hand of Cruelty are really good against fish and most decks that load-up STPs, and are pretty hefty when equipped with Jitte also because of their respective first strike and bushido ability.
Withered Wretch was put in mainboard to help cut recurring manlands with COW in play (landstill decks) and are pretty handy when in comes to narco-bridge decks.
Couldn't find an empty slot for duress but kept it in my sideboard just in case
Smother is really good when it comes to most match-ups and really does kill goyfs. diabolic edict is there to provide support for critters you can't target.
Umezawa's Jitte provides the back-up for creature kills as well as acceleration for the damage (+2/+2 ability).
Hope you like the list
Anyways there is already a thread kicking around for MBA. You can find it here: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=77560
Do things still get merged around here? It's been a while.
I was trying to post to contend with POT's statement of those creatures being necessary, as build depending they certainly aren't. Shades aside They can be too expensive or too slow/dangerous, depending on the aim of the build. This kind of deck necessitates Swamps, Dark Ritual, Duress, and Hymn to Tourach, after that it get's a little fuzzy.
Currently Running
Legacy: Burn; Various Stompy's; Food Chain Goblins; FC Elves
Standard: Junk Super Friends, Elf-Wave
Elder Dragon Highlander: Animar, Skithiryx, Bosh, Konda, Wort, Ezuri, Patron of the Moon
Nothing says budget help like receiving $5000 in recommendations.
I guess leaving out Time Walk, Timetwister, and Ancestral Recall is budget.