Stoneblade is a group of W/x decks that utilize Stoneforge Mystic in order to generate threats through very powerful equipment. With the printing of Batterskull, Stoneforge Mystic by itself becomes a fearsome play, allowing its controller access to a strong board position regardless of the time of the game. This is the card that defines Stoneblade as an archetype rather than a strategy since it provides a proactive plan. Many decks, such as Maverick, Death and Taxes and Excalibur (Bant with Stoneforge), utilize this combination but have access to other creatures that are proactive threats as well. Even some Zoo players have picked it up due to its sheer power.
What sets Stoneblade decks from these other established decks is it does not utilize other threats; instead, it uses equipment as its primary threat, combined with other “safe” creatures, such as tokens or manlands. The strategy is supplemented with disruption, removal and card advantage. As a result, the deck performs well at all stages of the game, allowing it to disrupt combo, slow down aggro and grind it out against control. Various version of the deck exist but all of them begin with the Stoneforge Mystic base.
StoneBlade has two main variants, BW(x) and UW(x). The main difference between the two styles is that BW(x) focuses on proactive disruption, usually in the form of resource denial and hand disruption, while UW(x) focuses on reactive disruption, usually in the form of counterspells.
This thread is for discussion of the BW(x) builds. UW(x) discussion can be found here. Esper (WUB) builds can be discussed in either thread, although most Esper builds tend to favor one style or the other.
II. The Deck
The Original BW StoneBlade evolved in the MM-era as a deck that had, simultaneously, good matchups vs UW StoneBlade and NO RUG.
The Card Advantage
As stated earlier, this deck plays a handful of cards that create the CA you need to win.
Stoneforge Mystic: Part of the deck's namesake, I think every magic player in every format knows the power of this card by now.
Dark Confidant: Probably the best black 2-drop in the game, Confidant provides a great amount of real card advantage, providing you with cards to refuel your hand after casting discard spells. We play a moderately low curve, but every once in a while you need to watch out for flipping Elspeth, a sword, Batterskull, or Vindicate.
Bitterblossom: The other contender for the best black 2-drop, Bitterblossom will simply take over the field at a barely noticeable cost.
Elspeth, Knight-Errant: Bitterblossom but better, Elspeth will just win you games. Provides dudes, as well as granting that Batterskull evasion. She turns even a Confidant into a 4 turn clock.
The Hand Disruption
One of the most efficient forms of resource denial in magic is hand disruption. These cheap spells allow you to pick powerful spells out of the opponent's hand turns before they can be cast. Additionally, most of these spells cause the opponent to reveal his or her hand, which can give you crucial information about his or her weaknesses.
Thoughtseize: A pretty straight forward and powerful spell, you get to trash any non-land for B and 2 life. Generally a strong turn 1 on the play, as unless the opponent has something he or she needs to protect it will not be forced, and Misstep is likewise not a great move on the opponent's part. Weaker on the draw due to Daze.
Hymn to Tourach: Probably the single most powerful discard spell ever printed. Unlike most of your spells, Hymn can hit lands, and very often you will want it to. Generally you do not want it to be the first discard spell you cast because you want it to get through.
Inquisition of Kozilek: In many cases a Thoughtseize without the life, although there are some exceptions
Cabal Therapy: A very interesting discard spell whose utility depends greatly on the situation. Generally not too good on the first few turns, but follows a Thoughtseize almost as well as Hymn does, with the added bonus that a turn 2 Therapy can't be Dazed. Its flashback can be meh sometimes since we run few creatures, but Elspeth and Bitterblossom make the flashback a nice mid-game option.
Tidehollow Sculler: a dude with a decent body and a discard spell at the same time. Sometimes you can't swing with him because you want to keep the card out of there hand, but still a useful guy to have. Every Tidehollow exiled is one less Bob that will be exiled
Gerrard's Verdict: A quirky card. Although it gives our opponent a choice, it is another spell that causes him or her to discard 2 cards (only other is Hymn).
The Removal
The removal suite is this deck is pretty easy to grasp, and is the standard for virtually any BW deck. Most decks also have a slight LD plan, giving you yet another way to put pressure on your opponent's resources.
Recently, this deck underwent another change with the printing of two cards, Lingering Souls and Liliana of the Veil. Both these cards are strong on their own, but together, especially when augmented by equipment, Cabal Therapy, and other cards become a force to be reckoned with.
The printing of Liliana also solves a problem this deck had, mainly that our planeswaker made up roughly a third of our white mana requirement. Liliana allows us to lower the curve slighty (1BB as opposed to 2WW), while also focusing on the color where most of our power comes from, black. Lingering Souls have replaced other creatures such as Tidehollow Sculler, Gatekeeper of Malakir, and Mirran Crusader as being more synergistic with Liliana and providing more sword carriers.
As I've said multiple times since I made T16 with the list you have in the opener, Sword of Body and Mind should be the sword you use in the main. SoWaP was used because I expected a bunch of Zoo and Uw Control/Stoneblade decks. You may not actually gain any life off BaM, but the creature it provides you will net you life in the long run. Being unblockable by 90% of the field while still providing you with a blocker makes SoBaM the strongest sword for this deck.
I made T8 with it at an SCG IQ in Durham. My only losses were to the same guy playing Uw Landstill and I had horrible draws. I mulliganned all five games, three of those down to 5 and once I drew 11 land over the course of the game.
It could still use some tweaking, but I haven't put much effort actually playing Magic lately.
I've been playing with a similar list.... Actually, I started with yours and modified it.
-1 swamp, +1 plains, -1 Edict, +1 Disfigure, -1 Vindicate, +1 Thoughtseize, -2 Cabal, +1 Elspeth, +1 Bitter.
The difference between deadguy and bwstone blade is that bw stoneblade typically runs less creatures and relies more on stoneforge mystic for the win.
deadguy doesnt have to have stoneforge, bw stoneblade does.
I'm still in the experimental stage with this deck, but it is quite a lot of fun to pilot. Some of our best matchups are mana-greedy decks like Merfolk and NO RUG. With 3 wastelands, Hymn, and Vindicate, I often find directly attacking one's mana-base quite profitable. We also have a solid Hivemind matchup, thanks to our discard, although if you let them resolve Hivemind that is game.
Weaker matchups include Affinity (our only way of slowing them down early is wasteland and discard), Zoo (same deal), and Lands (because everything we want to do they don't care about).
EDIT: Just got murdered 5 times in a row by Aggro Elves. That matchup is virtually impossible me thinks. I mean, one game, on the draw, I had a hand of:
SFM, Bob, Thoughtseize, Scrubland, Scrubland, Vindicate, Chrome mox, and drew a bitterblossom. If we cant win with that, I don't know what could possibly win.
I've never lost to Aggro Elves. The only time I came close was pre-MM and he was playing NO. SoBaM goes miles in this MU and Ghostly Prison can be a game winner as well. Batterskull is still solid and it just wins if you get a SoBM on it.
Combo Elves isn't too bad as long as you get some targetted discard and are familiar with how the deck operates. SoBM is still awesome and out of the board you want all the Revokers you can get, plus any more discard and targetted removal.
Zoo is a tough match as they are really fast and all their guys are bigger than yours. SFM is never going to stay around to drop that Batterskull and Grim Lavamancer is a pain. If they land a Sylvan Library you might as well go to the next game.
Uw Landstill is a pain because of the 8 million counters and the tremendous amounts of card advantage. We get by against most decks because of the CA from Dark Confidant or because they don't have any real CA themselves, that's not the case with Landstill. Bitterblossom is what you want here because it effectively gives you free cards and mana every turn.
UW Stoneblade is a pretty easy MU as long as you play tight. Manriki-Gusari is an all-star here as that just leaves them with Jace, which is fairly easy to get rid of by turning guys sidewise because they haven't countered everything you tried to play or taken it with Shackles or just dropped a ***.
Dredge can be rough. Your Hymns are beyond dead and a lot of the discard won't matter after the first turn. Jitte is amazing here and you have to have a way to kill your own dudes to get rid of their Bridge from Below. Bouncing Batterskull after you swing is a good way to get rid of Bridges.m Ghostly Prison is really good here as well, too bad they usually play Terastadon or Vindicangel.
Hive Mind: If you have a discard heavy hand game 1 you should be ok. The problem is that they board into Leyline of Sanctity for game 2 and then you pretty much lose because you can't kill them before they go off, unless they go for Emrakul and you have a Gatekeeper.
Merfolk is almost a bye. You just kill all their stuff and swing with Batterskull. Bob and SoBM are amazing here as well.
NO RUG/Bant are pretty decent MUs as well. Just kill all their little dudes so they can't drop NO and you should be all right. Bant has Knight and RUG has bolts and maybe Lavamancers. Usually as long as they don't land multiple Goyfs/Knights you should win.
Other than Merfolk, Zoo, Dredge, and to an extent Hive Mind; this deck has farily close MUs across the board. As long as you play tight and are able to read the situation correctly, the power level of the cards will carry you the rest of the way. There is no "I win" button and loose play will lead to losses all day. Unlike Zoo and most decks playing Jace, this deck is not very forgiving and mistakes = losses.
One last note: Sword of Feast and Famine sucks. It's the worst sword of the bunch, and believe it or not, SoFI is not the best of them.
I see Mirran Crusader is in the sideboards here. I am finding him really potent with either Elspeh or a Sword so was wondering why he is not main deck and when people are using him?
He's not md because we have only so much room in the list and we want to be as versatile as possible game 1. As a general rule of thumb, I bring him in if I'm playing a creature-based black/green deck. Seems kinda basic, but there it is. In that sense, we can get away without the SoFaF, because instead of changing swords we change beaters. What comes out depends on the deck, but I usually bring out either Tidehollow or Gatekeeper.
EDIT: After more tweeks, I'm playing the following
I am also very tempted to try out Italia, as the idea of bringing in Grim Lavamancer, REB, and Blood Moon is tantalizing. I fear doing so would force me to drop wasteland though, for color reasons, and as I have mentioned I have found mana-base attack to be a great way to beat NO decks, as they have inherently weak mana-bases. It's not to hard to keep NO RUG off of red, and once you do that, the game is half won.
I have also been throwing the idea of splashing red. I've been getting rather owned by blue and green. Is it worth it? Let me know what your lists are!
Hey guys, I just wanna straight up apologize for the Primer For those of you who don't know me, I'm a rising senior in hs, and I have been very busy with collage stuffs, too busy for much writing. On the other hand, just looking at this primer makes me feel really bad, especially in comparison to the other primer I am currently running, Affinity
One thing I have done is played a TON of games on MWS and MTGO, so I feel I have a much more solid grasp of this deck.
I'll start editing the Primer later today, but the main point about this deck (imo) is the following:
Our goal is to prevent the opponent from getting anything done via denial. We boost a strong discard and removal package, and Gatekeeper and Tidehollow are dudes that double as denial spells. Do not hesitate to simply begin striping your opponent of resources, even if it means doing the same to yourself (after all, you lose wasteland, and most discard/removal is 1-for-1). In my current list, I have 19 mana sources and 25 denial spells (counting wastelands in this). The reason we can get away with this, is that all of our powerhouse spells generate plenty of card advantage that allows us to make up for our losses, while our opponent cannot.
Hey guys, I just wanna straight up apologize for the Primer For those of you who don't know me, I'm a rising senior in hs, and I have been very busy with collage stuffs, too busy for much writing. On the other hand, just looking at this primer makes me feel really bad, especially in comparison to the other primer I am currently running, Affinity
One thing I have done is played a TON of games on MWS and MTGO, so I feel I have a much more solid grasp of this deck.
I'll start editing the Primer later today, but the main point about this deck (imo) is the following:
Our goal is to prevent the opponent from getting anything done via denial. We boost a strong discard and removal package, and Gatekeeper and Tidehollow are dudes that double as denial spells. Do not hesitate to simply begin striping your opponent of resources, even if it means doing the same to yourself (after all, you lose wasteland, and most discard/removal is 1-for-1). In my current list, I have 19 mana sources and 25 denial spells (counting wastelands in this). The reason we can get away with this, is that all of our powerhouse spells generate plenty of card advantage that allows us to make up for our losses, while our opponent cannot.
I hope that makes sense
The current primer was written by me. Joe just grabbed it and made a new thread.
The big difference between BW and UW is that BW is more proactive. It uses disruption to deny as many options to its opponents and follow up with a Batterskull + Token Generator. UW is reactive and uses its permission to control its opponent's spells. UW has more pure card advantage but BW has more virtual card advantage.
Just a point of contention on the primer: You can't flashback cabal therapy at instant speed, so at no point could you perform the cute tidehollow sculler trick you have listed.
Just a point of contention on the primer: You can't flashback cabal therapy at instant speed, so at no point could you perform the cute tidehollow sculler trick you have listed.
Thanks for the catch! Dunno why I thought that I think I've been reading too much about D&T
I have been testing my BW against UW a little, but I'm thinking about trading my BW towards UW. I see that you are more convinced towards BW. Do you think you could list out reasons why? I'm slightly bummed about my match ups against zoo and combo in my BW build and thought I would see how you think BW is better.
I have been testing my BW against UW a little, but I'm thinking about trading my BW towards UW. I see that you are more convinced towards BW. Do you think you could list out reasons why? I'm slightly bummed about my match ups against zoo and combo in my BW build and thought I would see how you think BW is better.
I don't feel I have to play keep up at all, instead of waiting for jace or ancestral visions I'm drawing cards off dark confidant, getting a token every turn, and keeping advantage through hymn to tourach. Discard also really helps against combo which has seen a huge rise in play. I'm also a huge fan of vindicate, it really is an all in one answer sometimes.
I might drop some of the discard just a little though, might just do 4x hymn, 3x seize and a inquisition.
UW is extremely strong, but I don't like having all my control being completely counterspell based. What I really want to do is find a happy middle ground between the two. Kind of like the Esper variant on the primer.
At SCG Pittsburg open, a U/W stoneforge deck got 6th using 3x Vendilion and 4x spellstutter. B/W uses bitterblossom, so I kinda think a fae variant might combine the better parts of both.
I just pulled this out of my behind, so it's very rough.. and very basic. Riptide Laboratory also acts as a way to save Dark Confidants and Cliques, in addition to late game spellstutter shenanigans. You could also drop the jitte (side deck it) and go with a 3x and 2x counterspell suite. I dunno, just something I want to make work. Also noticed I forgot about brainstorm, but there doesn't seem like a lot of room when you combine the two.
I think Mana Leak might be your best counter-spell in that build, as early you want to hit Scrub, Underground I would think. I mentioned the number 13 for discard spells in BW, and if your curious about that number its both the number I run, and the average of all the SCG placing builds as far as I can find. My initial reaction to dropping to 7 is meh. Maybe drop a Sprite and a counterspell? The main issue I have w Esper is that we want to run a WW a BB and a UU card, and though elspeth is prolly the right one to drop, I still don;t like it :/
Also, 19 lands seems a little low, as chrome mox isn't as flexible. maybe drop it for 2 fetches and a basic swamp?
I think Mana Leak might be your best counter-spell in that build, as early you want to hit Scrub, Underground I would think. I mentioned the number 13 for discard spells in BW, and if your curious about that number its both the number I run, and the average of all the SCG placing builds as far as I can find. My initial reaction to dropping to 7 is meh. Maybe drop a Sprite and a counterspell? The main issue I have w Esper is that we want to run a WW a BB and a UU card, and though elspeth is prolly the right one to drop, I still don;t like it :/
Also, 19 lands seems a little low, as chrome mox isn't as flexible. maybe drop it for 2 fetches and a basic swamp?
yeah it was definitely just something I put together while posting, but it's an idea I've had for a while and I think I'll try and work on it.
It seems like the sum isn't equal to the parts of the whole though. As you'd have to drop a good amount of discard and counter just to mesh them together, and the outcome is pretty much just adding spellstutter and vendilion.
I play essentially the same build as tim the enchanter, discard suite a little different. I want to change the deck a little to make the matchup against zoo a bit better. Quasali pridemange also seems to be my worst enemy.
I. Introduction
What is Stoneblade?
Stoneblade is a group of W/x decks that utilize Stoneforge Mystic in order to generate threats through very powerful equipment. With the printing of Batterskull, Stoneforge Mystic by itself becomes a fearsome play, allowing its controller access to a strong board position regardless of the time of the game. This is the card that defines Stoneblade as an archetype rather than a strategy since it provides a proactive plan. Many decks, such as Maverick, Death and Taxes and Excalibur (Bant with Stoneforge), utilize this combination but have access to other creatures that are proactive threats as well. Even some Zoo players have picked it up due to its sheer power.
What sets Stoneblade decks from these other established decks is it does not utilize other threats; instead, it uses equipment as its primary threat, combined with other “safe” creatures, such as tokens or manlands. The strategy is supplemented with disruption, removal and card advantage. As a result, the deck performs well at all stages of the game, allowing it to disrupt combo, slow down aggro and grind it out against control. Various version of the deck exist but all of them begin with the Stoneforge Mystic base.
StoneBlade has two main variants, BW(x) and UW(x). The main difference between the two styles is that BW(x) focuses on proactive disruption, usually in the form of resource denial and hand disruption, while UW(x) focuses on reactive disruption, usually in the form of counterspells.
This thread is for discussion of the BW(x) builds. UW(x) discussion can be found here. Esper (WUB) builds can be discussed in either thread, although most Esper builds tend to favor one style or the other.
II. The Deck
The Original BW StoneBlade evolved in the MM-era as a deck that had, simultaneously, good matchups vs UW StoneBlade and NO RUG.
As stated earlier, this deck plays a handful of cards that create the CA you need to win.
Stoneforge Mystic: Part of the deck's namesake, I think every magic player in every format knows the power of this card by now.
Dark Confidant: Probably the best black 2-drop in the game, Confidant provides a great amount of real card advantage, providing you with cards to refuel your hand after casting discard spells. We play a moderately low curve, but every once in a while you need to watch out for flipping Elspeth, a sword, Batterskull, or Vindicate.
Bitterblossom: The other contender for the best black 2-drop, Bitterblossom will simply take over the field at a barely noticeable cost.
Elspeth, Knight-Errant: Bitterblossom but better, Elspeth will just win you games. Provides dudes, as well as granting that Batterskull evasion. She turns even a Confidant into a 4 turn clock.
The Hand Disruption
One of the most efficient forms of resource denial in magic is hand disruption. These cheap spells allow you to pick powerful spells out of the opponent's hand turns before they can be cast. Additionally, most of these spells cause the opponent to reveal his or her hand, which can give you crucial information about his or her weaknesses.
Thoughtseize: A pretty straight forward and powerful spell, you get to trash any non-land for B and 2 life. Generally a strong turn 1 on the play, as unless the opponent has something he or she needs to protect it will not be forced, and Misstep is likewise not a great move on the opponent's part. Weaker on the draw due to Daze.
Hymn to Tourach: Probably the single most powerful discard spell ever printed. Unlike most of your spells, Hymn can hit lands, and very often you will want it to. Generally you do not want it to be the first discard spell you cast because you want it to get through.
Inquisition of Kozilek: In many cases a Thoughtseize without the life, although there are some exceptions
Cabal Therapy: A very interesting discard spell whose utility depends greatly on the situation. Generally not too good on the first few turns, but follows a Thoughtseize almost as well as Hymn does, with the added bonus that a turn 2 Therapy can't be Dazed. Its flashback can be meh sometimes since we run few creatures, but Elspeth and Bitterblossom make the flashback a nice mid-game option.
Tidehollow Sculler: a dude with a decent body and a discard spell at the same time. Sometimes you can't swing with him because you want to keep the card out of there hand, but still a useful guy to have. Every Tidehollow exiled is one less Bob that will be exiled
Gerrard's Verdict: A quirky card. Although it gives our opponent a choice, it is another spell that causes him or her to discard 2 cards (only other is Hymn).
The Removal
The removal suite is this deck is pretty easy to grasp, and is the standard for virtually any BW deck. Most decks also have a slight LD plan, giving you yet another way to put pressure on your opponent's resources.
Swords to Plowshares: The best creature removal in the format
Gatekeeper of Malakir: Like Tidehollow, it is a spell with legs. Usually you will cast this card with its kicker paid.
Vindicate: The best removal card ever printed. It kills everything, including lands.
Wasteland: In a format where almost every top deck is multicolored, wastelands are always nice to have.
III. Deck Lists
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Creatures:
2 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Dark Confidant
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Stoneforge Mystic
Spells:
3 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn To Tourach
4 Swords To Plowshares
4 Vindicate
4 Bitterblossom
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3 Chrome Mox
4 Marsh Flats
2 Arid Mesa
4 Scrubland
4 Swamp
2 Plains
3 Wasteland
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Sword of Fire And Ice
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Ghostly Prison
3 Extirpate
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Creatures:
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Tidehollow Sculler
Spells:
1 Diabolic Edict
2 Swords To Plowshares
2 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn To Tourach
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Vindicate
4 Bitterblossom
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3 Chrome Mox
1 Plains
5 Swamp
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
4 Scrubland
3 Wasteland
1 Manriki-gusari
1 Null Rod
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Sword of Fire And Ice
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
Creatures:
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Tidehollow Sculler
Spells:
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Vindicate
4 Bitterblossom
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3 Chrome Mox
4 Marsh Flats
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Scrubland
1 Godless Shrine
4 Swamp
1 Plains
3 Wateland
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Perish
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Darkblast
1 Relic of Progentius
1x Swamp
4x Scrubland
4x Badlands
2x Plateau
4x Marsh Flats
4x Bloodstained Mire
3x Wasteland
Artifact (4):
1x Basilisk Collar
1x Batterskull
1x Sword of Body and Mind
1x Umezawa's Jitte
4x Grim Lavamancer
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Dark Confidant
2x Mirran Crusader
Instant (6):
4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Lightning Bolt
Sorcery (12)
4x Thoughtseize
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Vindicate
Enchantment (2)
2x Bitterblossom
2x Relic of Progentius
3x Phyrexian Crusader
1x Darkblast
3x Extirpate
3x Red Elemental Blast
3x Perish
Recently, this deck underwent another change with the printing of two cards, Lingering Souls and Liliana of the Veil. Both these cards are strong on their own, but together, especially when augmented by equipment, Cabal Therapy, and other cards become a force to be reckoned with.
The printing of Liliana also solves a problem this deck had, mainly that our planeswaker made up roughly a third of our white mana requirement. Liliana allows us to lower the curve slighty (1BB as opposed to 2WW), while also focusing on the color where most of our power comes from, black. Lingering Souls have replaced other creatures such as Tidehollow Sculler, Gatekeeper of Malakir, and Mirran Crusader as being more synergistic with Liliana and providing more sword carriers.
III. Deck Lists
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
Instants:
3 Zealous Persecution
4 Swords to Plowshares
Sorceries:
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Lingering Souls
Enchantments:
4 Bitterblossom
Planeswalkers:
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Chrome Mox
Lands:
2 Plains
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
4 Swamp
4 Wasteland
1 Manriki-Gusari
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Serenity
1 Warmth
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Enlightened Tutor
3 Extirpate
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Chrome Mox
Creatures:
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
Planeswalkers:
4 Liliana of the Veil
Spells:
3 Inquisition of Kozelik
1 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Bitterblossom
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Vindicate
4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Scrubland
5 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Serenity
1 Warmth
1 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Enlightened Tutor
3 Extirpate
3 Zealous Persecution
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
Here's my latest list:
1 Batterskull
3 Chrome Mox
1 Sword of Body and Mind
Artifact Creatures
2 Tidehollow Sculler
Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Stoneforge Mystic
Instants
1 Diabolic Edict
3 Swords to Plowshares
Legendary Artifacts
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Planeswalkers
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Tourach
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 Vindicate
Tribal Enchantments
3 Bitterblossom
Basic Lands
1 Plains
5 Swamp
Lands
4 Marsh Flats
2 Polluted Delta
4 Scrubland
3 Wasteland
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Sword of War and Peace
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Ghostly Prison
2 Extirpate
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Perish
I made T8 with it at an SCG IQ in Durham. My only losses were to the same guy playing Uw Landstill and I had horrible draws. I mulliganned all five games, three of those down to 5 and once I drew 11 land over the course of the game.
It could still use some tweaking, but I haven't put much effort actually playing Magic lately.
-1 swamp, +1 plains, -1 Edict, +1 Disfigure, -1 Vindicate, +1 Thoughtseize, -2 Cabal, +1 Elspeth, +1 Bitter.
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
RaggedJoe have you tried out this deck, and if so what dose it loose/win to?
It seems really fun and quite decent!
ALL CREDIT GOES TO MASTER PIET
Some builds of Deadguy Ale run Vial. This deck doesn't rely on men.
deadguy doesnt have to have stoneforge, bw stoneblade does.
Legacy:
UGRB 4 color cascade
EDH/Commander:
BWG Teneb, the Harvester
Weaker matchups include Affinity (our only way of slowing them down early is wasteland and discard), Zoo (same deal), and Lands (because everything we want to do they don't care about).
EDIT: Just got murdered 5 times in a row by Aggro Elves. That matchup is virtually impossible me thinks. I mean, one game, on the draw, I had a hand of:
SFM, Bob, Thoughtseize, Scrubland, Scrubland, Vindicate, Chrome mox, and drew a bitterblossom. If we cant win with that, I don't know what could possibly win.
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
Combo Elves isn't too bad as long as you get some targetted discard and are familiar with how the deck operates. SoBM is still awesome and out of the board you want all the Revokers you can get, plus any more discard and targetted removal.
Zoo is a tough match as they are really fast and all their guys are bigger than yours. SFM is never going to stay around to drop that Batterskull and Grim Lavamancer is a pain. If they land a Sylvan Library you might as well go to the next game.
Uw Landstill is a pain because of the 8 million counters and the tremendous amounts of card advantage. We get by against most decks because of the CA from Dark Confidant or because they don't have any real CA themselves, that's not the case with Landstill. Bitterblossom is what you want here because it effectively gives you free cards and mana every turn.
UW Stoneblade is a pretty easy MU as long as you play tight. Manriki-Gusari is an all-star here as that just leaves them with Jace, which is fairly easy to get rid of by turning guys sidewise because they haven't countered everything you tried to play or taken it with Shackles or just dropped a ***.
Dredge can be rough. Your Hymns are beyond dead and a lot of the discard won't matter after the first turn. Jitte is amazing here and you have to have a way to kill your own dudes to get rid of their Bridge from Below. Bouncing Batterskull after you swing is a good way to get rid of Bridges.m Ghostly Prison is really good here as well, too bad they usually play Terastadon or Vindicangel.
Hive Mind: If you have a discard heavy hand game 1 you should be ok. The problem is that they board into Leyline of Sanctity for game 2 and then you pretty much lose because you can't kill them before they go off, unless they go for Emrakul and you have a Gatekeeper.
Merfolk is almost a bye. You just kill all their stuff and swing with Batterskull. Bob and SoBM are amazing here as well.
NO RUG/Bant are pretty decent MUs as well. Just kill all their little dudes so they can't drop NO and you should be all right. Bant has Knight and RUG has bolts and maybe Lavamancers. Usually as long as they don't land multiple Goyfs/Knights you should win.
Other than Merfolk, Zoo, Dredge, and to an extent Hive Mind; this deck has farily close MUs across the board. As long as you play tight and are able to read the situation correctly, the power level of the cards will carry you the rest of the way. There is no "I win" button and loose play will lead to losses all day. Unlike Zoo and most decks playing Jace, this deck is not very forgiving and mistakes = losses.
One last note: Sword of Feast and Famine sucks. It's the worst sword of the bunch, and believe it or not, SoFI is not the best of them.
He's not md because we have only so much room in the list and we want to be as versatile as possible game 1. As a general rule of thumb, I bring him in if I'm playing a creature-based black/green deck. Seems kinda basic, but there it is. In that sense, we can get away without the SoFaF, because instead of changing swords we change beaters. What comes out depends on the deck, but I usually bring out either Tidehollow or Gatekeeper.
EDIT: After more tweeks, I'm playing the following
3 Chrome Mox
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Batterskull
Creatures:
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Tidehollow Sculler
Spells:
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thoughtseize
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Bitterblossom
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Vindicate
3 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Marsh Flats
2 Arid Mesa
4 Scrubland
4 Swamp
2 Plains
3 Wasteland
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Sword of War and Peace
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Ghostly Prison
2 Extirpate
I am also very tempted to try out Italia, as the idea of bringing in Grim Lavamancer, REB, and Blood Moon is tantalizing. I fear doing so would force me to drop wasteland though, for color reasons, and as I have mentioned I have found mana-base attack to be a great way to beat NO decks, as they have inherently weak mana-bases. It's not to hard to keep NO RUG off of red, and once you do that, the game is half won.
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
Legacy:
UGRB 4 color cascade
EDH/Commander:
BWG Teneb, the Harvester
Pro Colored Spells. In other words, abilities from permanents will wreck Emrakul.
I have also been throwing the idea of splashing red. I've been getting rather owned by blue and green. Is it worth it? Let me know what your lists are!
Thanks!
BGElvesBG and BUGNissa ElvesBUG Faithful Elfer since May 1st, 2015
Results: SCG IQ Top 8, Monthly Modern Masters Top 4
One thing I have done is played a TON of games on MWS and MTGO, so I feel I have a much more solid grasp of this deck.
I'll start editing the Primer later today, but the main point about this deck (imo) is the following:
Our goal is to prevent the opponent from getting anything done via denial. We boost a strong discard and removal package, and Gatekeeper and Tidehollow are dudes that double as denial spells. Do not hesitate to simply begin striping your opponent of resources, even if it means doing the same to yourself (after all, you lose wasteland, and most discard/removal is 1-for-1). In my current list, I have 19 mana sources and 25 denial spells (counting wastelands in this). The reason we can get away with this, is that all of our powerhouse spells generate plenty of card advantage that allows us to make up for our losses, while our opponent cannot.
I hope that makes sense
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
The current primer was written by me. Joe just grabbed it and made a new thread.
The big difference between BW and UW is that BW is more proactive. It uses disruption to deny as many options to its opponents and follow up with a Batterskull + Token Generator. UW is reactive and uses its permission to control its opponent's spells. UW has more pure card advantage but BW has more virtual card advantage.
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
Legacy
WW Death and Taxes WW
Modern
WBMartyr-Proc BW
Thanks for the catch! Dunno why I thought that I think I've been reading too much about D&T
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
As for the esper variant, seems almost like it wants to include spellstutter sprite and just become a faerie/stoneforge deck.
-Legacy-
WUB Esper Stoneblade
WUR Miracles
BUG Bug Loam
I have been testing my BW against UW a little, but I'm thinking about trading my BW towards UW. I see that you are more convinced towards BW. Do you think you could list out reasons why? I'm slightly bummed about my match ups against zoo and combo in my BW build and thought I would see how you think BW is better.
BGElvesBG and BUGNissa ElvesBUG Faithful Elfer since May 1st, 2015
Results: SCG IQ Top 8, Monthly Modern Masters Top 4
I don't feel I have to play keep up at all, instead of waiting for jace or ancestral visions I'm drawing cards off dark confidant, getting a token every turn, and keeping advantage through hymn to tourach. Discard also really helps against combo which has seen a huge rise in play. I'm also a huge fan of vindicate, it really is an all in one answer sometimes.
I might drop some of the discard just a little though, might just do 4x hymn, 3x seize and a inquisition.
UW is extremely strong, but I don't like having all my control being completely counterspell based. What I really want to do is find a happy middle ground between the two. Kind of like the Esper variant on the primer.
At SCG Pittsburg open, a U/W stoneforge deck got 6th using 3x Vendilion and 4x spellstutter. B/W uses bitterblossom, so I kinda think a fae variant might combine the better parts of both.
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Vendilion Clique
Artifacts (6)
3 Chrome Mox
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Batterskull
4 Bitterblossom
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Thoughtseize
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Some form of Counterspell
3 Vindicate
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
4 Underground Sea
3 Tundra
3 Scrubland
1 Riptide Laboratory
I just pulled this out of my behind, so it's very rough.. and very basic. Riptide Laboratory also acts as a way to save Dark Confidants and Cliques, in addition to late game spellstutter shenanigans. You could also drop the jitte (side deck it) and go with a 3x and 2x counterspell suite. I dunno, just something I want to make work. Also noticed I forgot about brainstorm, but there doesn't seem like a lot of room when you combine the two.
-Legacy-
WUB Esper Stoneblade
WUR Miracles
BUG Bug Loam
Also, 19 lands seems a little low, as chrome mox isn't as flexible. maybe drop it for 2 fetches and a basic swamp?
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
yeah it was definitely just something I put together while posting, but it's an idea I've had for a while and I think I'll try and work on it.
It seems like the sum isn't equal to the parts of the whole though. As you'd have to drop a good amount of discard and counter just to mesh them together, and the outcome is pretty much just adding spellstutter and vendilion.
I play essentially the same build as tim the enchanter, discard suite a little different. I want to change the deck a little to make the matchup against zoo a bit better. Quasali pridemange also seems to be my worst enemy.
-Legacy-
WUB Esper Stoneblade
WUR Miracles
BUG Bug Loam