MOBA Magic - Level-up role player, team building strategy, and respawn system; to build a MTG experience reminiscent of online battle arena games.
The Rules:
-Decks are 40 cards, maximum of 4 copies per card.
-No land cards allowed in the deck.
-Players begin the game with a Champion (new card type) of their choice, and three basic lands with any type of the Champion's color identity.
-Champions gain experience (henceforth XP) each with their own mechanic or trigger.
-Levels 2, 4, and 6 grant you new abilities.
-Level 3 and 5 each allow the player to place two more basic lands, final land count being 7.
-Levels 2 and 3 require 10 XP to achieve, while 4 and 5 require an additional 20 XP.
-After a final 30 XP is earned, your Champion reaches level 6 and triggers a powerful ultimate ability.
-Each 30 XP earned thereafter triggers the effect again, but 6 is the max level.
-(Total XP from level 1 to level 6 is 90)
Respawns:
-Players begin the game with 20/20 life, employing a max life cap. This keeps infinite life combos in check.
-Each Champion level-up increases your current and max life by 2, maxing out at 30 life for level 6.
-A player is eliminated at 0 life or an empty library, no alt win cons. Alt loss conditions apply (Slaughter Pact)
-An eliminated player shuffles all non land cards back into their library, leaving their Champion and lands in play.
-Eliminated players skip one of their turns and then resumes the game at 20/X life, X reflecting their Champ level.
-The first team to reach 10 kills wins (this number is arbitrary and will likely be flexible)
Banned List:
-Goblin Charbelcher, Mind Funeral, Mind Grind, Path to Exile, and related land-interactive cards.
-Card pool for testing purposes will be Legacy, and probably reflect the Legacy ban list.
-Respawns and max life caps help keep infinite combos in check.
-Once we get deeper into testing, a more format-specific ban list will be constructed.
The Champions:
Taiga, the Illusionist
Champion WU
+4 XP - Whenever a source you control exiles a permanent or counters a spell.
Level 2 - Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, counter target non creature spell.
Level 4 - You have hexproof.
Level 6 - Put two tokens onto the battlefield that are copies of target nonlegendary creature you control.
Samoth, Vile Hunter
Champion BR
+3 XP - Whenever a creature card is put into an opponent's graveyard from anywhere.
Level 2 - Damage from creatures you control can't be prevented.
Level 4 - Damage from noncreature sources you control is dealt as though it's source had Wither.
Level 6 - Put a creature card from an opponent's graveyard onto the battlefield under your control. It gains haste, first strike, and deathtouch.
Galder, the Millennium King
Champion WB
+3 XP - Whenever a source you control causes a player to gain life.
Level 2 - Whenever a source you control would cause you to gain life, you may have target ally gain that much life instead.
Level 4 - At the beginning of the end step, if you gained 5 or more life this turn, target opponent loses 5 life.
Level 6 - Creatures target player controls gain protection from black and from white under end of turn. That player gains 5 life.
Valla, the Demon Slayer
Champion WR
+1 XP - Whenever a creature you control attacks.
+5 XP - Whenever another player is defeated.
Level 2 - 1WR: Target creature you control gets +2/+0 and gains indestructible until end of turn.
Level 4 - Creatures your allies control have haste.
Level 6 - If a creature an opponent controls has flying, creatures you control gain flying until end of turn. The same is true for first strike, deathtouch, hexproof, lifelink, intimidate, trample, protection, and double strike.
Garbad, the Brave
Champion WG
+2 XP - Whenever a creature you control attacks or blocks.
Level 2 - Green creatures you control get +0/+1 and have vigilance.
Level 4 - White creatures you control get +1/+0 and have trample.
Level 6 - Creatures you control gain double strike and lifelink until end of turn.
Pharaun, Master Mage
Champion UR
+4 XP - Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell.
Level 2 - Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery, you may draw a card. If you do, discard a card.
Level 4 - Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell with converted mana cost 3 or less, you may copy it and choose new targets for the copy.
Level 6 - Deal 4 damage to target player, then draw 4 cards.
Atibon Legba
Champion BG
+3 XP - Whenever a creature card is put into your graveyard from anywhere.
Level 2 - (B/G), exile a creature card from your graveyard: Add BG to your mana pool. Activate this ability only once each turn.
Level 4 - As long as you have 15 or less life, you may cast creature cards you own from exile.
Level 6 - Each opponent loses X life, where X is 20 minus your life total.
Azazel, the Deceiver
Champion UB
+5 XP - Whenever you gain control of a permanent you don't own, or a permanent you control becomes a copy of a card you don't own.
Level 2 - Artifacts you control have "T, pay 1 life: Add U or B to your mana pool"
Level 4 - Creatures you control that you don't own get +2/+2 and have hexproof.
Level 6 - Gain control of each creature if it has the same name as a creature you already control.
Wilkenstein the Overgrown
Champion RG
+5 XP - Whenever you cast a spell with converted mana cost greater than the number of lands you control.
Level 2 - Sacrifice a land: the next creature spell you cast this turn has Bloodthirst 2.
Level 4 - Spells with X in their mana cost you cast cost 2 less to cast.
Level 6 - Return up to two target cards from your graveyard to your hand.
Darwald, Evolution's Masterpiece
Champion UG
+3 XP - Whenever one or more counters are added to or removed from a permanent you control.
Level 2 - Creatures you control with counters on them get +1/+1 and have flying.
Level 4 - Remove X counters from a permanent you control: Counter target spell unless it's controller pays X. Activate this ability only once each turn.
Level 6 - Return X target creatures to their owner's hands, where X is the highest number of counters on a permanent you control.
Baretta, Sky Valkyrie
Champion W
+3 XP - Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control.
Level 2 - Soldier and Spirit creatures you control get +1/+1
Level 4 - Creature spells you cast have convoke.
Level 6 - Search your library for an enchantment card and put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle your library.
Drevan, the Soulfire
Champion R
+3 XP - Whenever a source you control deals noncombat damage to a player.
Level 2 - Whenever a source you control deals noncombat damage to a player, increase that damage by 1.
Level 4 - Red spells you cast cost 2 less to cast.
Level 6 - Deal 5 damage to target player and each creature that player controls.
Radagg Wildspeaker
Champion G
+3 XP - Whenever a creature you control deals combat damage to a player or fights a creature.
Level 2 - Creatures you control get +1/+1.
Level 4 - Whenever two or more creatures attack you, untap up to two creatures you control.
Level 6 - Search your library for up to two creature cards with converted mana cost 4 or less and put them onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library.
Ihsahn, the Nightside Eclipse
Champion B
+3 XP - Whenever an opponent discards a card.
Level 2 - At the beginning of the end step, if two more or players have discarded a card this turn, each opponent loses 3 life.
Level 4 - Whenever an opponent discards a card, if that player has 2 or fewer cards in hand, that player loses 5 life.
Level 6 - Draw X cards and gain X life, where X is 10 minus the number of cards in the hand of the opponent with the most cards in hand.
Trym, the Depraved
Champion U
+3 XP - Whenever you draw a card besides the first card you draw each turn.
Level 2 - At the beginning of each opponent's end step, draw a card.
Level 4 - Creatures you control get +X/+X, where X is the number of cards in your hand. Your maximum hand size in decreased by one.
Level 6 - Whenever you draw a card this turn, counter target spell.
Well I also have envisioned the deck building to mimic hearthstone, but that is not directly related the general MOBA theme. Decks would have 30 cards, max count of each card is 2 except for legendary cards which is 1. No lands in your deck, but you have a side pool of 10 lands that you may place from one of per turn (this counts as playing a land from your hand for purposes of cards like Explore). Only your third, sixth, and ninth lands may be nonbasic, the other 6 lands in your pool must be basic.
My first draft of the idea employed a multiple champion per deck concept, mostly because I don't have a very large playground to test with (only about 2 guys interested). I think a team format would be best though - 2v2, 3v3, or 4v4 would be the way to go. That way your team can design their decks accordingly to work well together. A player piloting Lazav, Dimir Mastermind would use cards such as Chill of Foreboding that would benefit allies like Varolz, the Scar-striped. I guess it could work still in a 1v1 player manner. Decks would be let's say 20 cards per champion, i.e. a 3-champ deck would be 60 cards.
The overal format would imitate commander. Each player has a Champion that begins in the command zone and returns there if it would leave play. Instead of increasing the cost of the commander each time it is cast, it would have a suspend-like mechanic that just increases by one turn each time your champion is returned to the command zone (similar to the time you wait when you die in MOBA games). The champion's mana cost only needs to be paid the first time it is cast, then it returns automatically after the appropriate amount of counters have been removed (one per upkeep, just like suspend). Your deck can only include cards of your champion's color identity. I would love to employ the concept of the "Ultimate" from MOBA games. A powerful spell that only becomes available to you when you reach a certain "level" and has a particularly long "cool down". I feel like this would require a new card type completely, but one facet I considered to have a big spell, let's say minimum cmc 5, that is kept with your side pool and is automatically added to your hand when you reach your sixth land. This whole part is still very preliminary and undeveloped.
Combat formation could even be employed. In a 4v4 game, you could choose to block for your allies but only allies that are adjacent to you. Similarly you could only attack enemies that are adjacent or directly in front of you. In the interest of fairness, both teams would place their champions in formation face-down. They would all be turned face up once everybody has chosen formation.
I haven't made up my mind yet if it would be more interesting to allot each player a smaller life total (let's say 20) and force a defeated player to shuffle all their non land cards back into their deck, champion to return to command zone with +1 suspend time, and basically start over but with their lands still in play. Teams would play for X amount of time and the team with the highest score would win. -OR- the simpler option would be to give players a larger life total (30 or 40) but once a player is eliminated, they are gone for good. I like the first option better but it might yield some complicated rules and broken deck construction that is still unforeseen to me. Keeping all players involved for the duration of the game instead of punishing a player who is focus-fired in the beginning sounds more fun to me.
Unrelated but important to me is focusing on speed but also balance. I originally wanted the side pools to include only 4 lands, but that would of course yield deck building more similar to Tiny Leaders. And I figured I would lose the interest of players that like big spells, going big, and generally being Timmys.
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What are your thoughts? I love that I've sparked some interest here. It's always better to have the perspective of others to see things from angles I haven't thought of yet. My playground has conceded to try out whatever I come up with, but not particularly interested in the development part.
I think you're grabbing a lot of disconnected mechanics from games you like and trying to bolt them onto an existing game you like. It's great to take inspiration from other games, but you need to carefully focus on what your goal is in creating the new experience. This reads like a mashup of HS, Emperor, Respawn, Commander other things. Oddly, pretty much the last thing it feels like to me is a Moba (which I'd characterize via level-ups, laning and so on). While I do like several of your ideas individually, I think you seriously need to focus on a design goal.
If you're not familiar with the term "Design Goal", this should help.
I think it would be hard to go further in the play style of MOBA and still use Mtg cards. That would require a different game entirely. I guess my idea is just a modified commander with hearthstone deck building. I think another core aspect of MOBA is the element of surprise which is hard to represent with Mtg. Cards in your hand & deck, and face-down morphs are about the only element of surprise to make use of.
My design goal is to create a more in-depth team-based experience than something like two-headed giant. The deck construction, combat, and resource mechanics of my outline above could all be thrown out and redone, as long as I keep the focus on team-based strategy. Where cards with "target player gains X life" would be used on someone besides the player casting it, and cards with global effects such as my Chill of Foreboding example could be used to hurt your opponents as well as help your allies. Modifying deck construction to model HS (and my 7 basic / 3 nonbasic land side pool) is only applied to help balance the mana-screw aspect of Mtg.
Which elements of my draft do you think are worth expanding on? The article you linked was helpful in that it reminds me not to incorporate mechanics just for the flavor, but to ensure each new mechanic is relevant to my goal. But feedback on my actual content would be appreciated.
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To be honest, I'm feeling more and more like this needs to be a different game entirely. I love the flavor of many of the legendary creatures in Mtg, but I'm not sure it's the right facet for this concept. Team based EDH with range-of-influence attacking/blocking is probably as close as I'm going to get.
I do like the hearthstone-style mana system used to avoid mana screw (as in a multiplayer game, it's almost a mathematical certainty that SOMEONE will get screwed or flooded) and the concept of using a respawn system to prevent players in a large multiplayer game from being knocked out and having to stop playing while their friends continue to have fun.
I think it's possible to capture the spirit of a MOBA. Leveling up could be accomplished via either gaining more lands or better cards. An item shop probably isn't necessary, but could be built out of equipment. It wouldn't even be impossible to mimic LoL's dragon or turrets. Just porting over mechanics is a bad idea, but capturing the spirit is likely possible.
Of course, making a standalone game is going to be a lot easier for working the concept though.
The item shop with artifacts idea is something I had thought of. A bunch of mutually useful artifacts and equipment (Sol Ring, Isochron Scepter, Sword of Fire and Ice) could be set aside and purchased as the game progressed. Maybe your champion level would increase as your reach your 3rd, 6th, and 9th lands? But then what significance would your level have on the game? Levels gained could incrementally increase your power level, life total, or just simply allow access to new items (artifacts & equipment) to buy at the shop.
1) Perhaps land drops don't happen automatically every turn. Let's say you start with a certain number of lands in play, then earn more when you level up.
2) Perhaps you start with a deck that has really weak spells (all 3cmc or less perhaps). At higher levels, you gain access to more powerful spells. Either they're shuffled into your deck, deckbuilder style, or you might draw from progressively more powerful decks as the game goes on.
3) A level-up deck is specifically constructred with certain constraints. Perhaps when you level up, you cast the top card of your level-up deck for free. It might be filled of useful enchantments, artifacts and so on that make your character stronger.
4) Level-up cards are made specifically for the format, the way schemes are made for archenemy. Perhaps there's a wizened mentor that is willing to train you in different things, and you can spend XP to buy upgrades from him.
As for what mechanics actually GAIN you these levels, I don't know yet. It's possible that the 'class' you pick at the start of the game could determine what gets you XP. For example, one class might gain 1 XP whenever a source he controls deals non-combat damage to an opponent. Another class might gain XP whenever he puts a creature from a graveyard to play under his control. These classes, or champions, could be vanguard-like custom designed cards you choose instead of or in addition to a commander.
It's worth noting that none of this represents a design goal. I'm just going through mechanics that could serve to mimic a level-up structure.
Maybe something like Talents? A new card type that would chosen and assigned to your champion. Some examples:
Healer
Talent - Support
Level 1 - Whenever you would gain life, you may have target ally gain that much life instead.
Level 2 - Prevent the first 1 damage dealt to you each turn.
Level 3 - Your champion has hexproof.
Assassin
Talent - Offense
Level 1 - Damage from sources you control can't be prevented.
Level 2 - Creatures dealt damage by sources you control cannot be regenerated.
Level 3 - Creatures you control have first strike.
Exp could be earned by causing a card to be sent to the opponents graveyard. Countering a spell, forcing a discard, destroying a creature with combat or a spell. Milling the opponent probably shouldn't yield exp though since the cost:cards ratio is a bit skewed compared to the rest.
Something like that is certainly workable. However, since MTG naturally has scaling mechanics built in (land drops and so on) it seems a shame to not have the level-up system tied to that in some way.
The "Send a card to the opponent's grave for XP" seems interesting. But honestly, if you're willing to make talent cards, why not have a Champion card instead?
Drevan, the Soulfire
Champion
Color Identity - Red
+1 XP - A source you control deals noncombat damage to a player
Level 1 - Whenever an instant or sorcery you control would deal damage to a player, increase that damage by 1.
Level 2 - Reduce the costs of instant and sorcery spells you cast by 1.
Level 3 - Whenever an instant or sorcery you control deals damage to a player, put that many 1/1 red elemental tokens with haste onto the battlefield under your control.
You could have each champion have its own balanced method of gaining XP. I'm not sure it's necessary to have the level-ups be part of the champion card (I'd very much like to tie level ups to land drops or similar in order to work with the natural progression mechanics already in the game) but it's certainly doable.
Don't you think it would be hard to balance exp gaining rates if they were attached to different mechanics for each class? The sending cards to GY method seems very neutral and is something all pieces of the color pie could participate. Red has burn, blue has counter spells, black has discard, green and white are a bit lacking but both colors can destroy artifacts/enchantments and are the most likely to block for value in combat.
The lands could still be tied in as well. Let's say you start with 3 basic lands and 4 cards drawn from your deck as your starting hand. No lands in the deck to be drawn after that. At whatever exp intervals we deem appropriate, you could place a land from your side pool (this is you leveling up). After your first three lands, leveling up is the only way to increase your resources. Starting at level 1, the max level could be 6. Putting the final land cap at 8.
Another addition I thought of, in the spirit of level ups, is to increase your life total as you level up. Max starting life would be 20, but current and max life would increase by let's say 2 each time you level up, capping your max life at 30.
Don't you think it would be hard to balance exp gaining rates if they were attached to different mechanics for each class?
Actually, the extra control over the various classes would probably make things easier. You can give some classes harder triggers to gain XP, and in return give them stronger abilities. Specific XP gaining methods also makes the format encourage different deckbuilds for various "champions". A deck that gives you XP every time you put a creature into play is going to be built very differently than Drevan up there, and both will be built differently from a deck that gets XP off lifegain. You could also give XP for more obscure things, like putting a card from a graveyard onto the battlefield under your control.
Unfortunately I've got to run out the door right now so I can't respond to the rest yet. See you later.
EDIT - The reason I said it might make things easier to bind specific XP triggers is that otherwise players will pick the maximally efficient method. Like you mentioned with Mill, it's so efficient it'd seriously reduce other possible decks because of how good it is at putting cards in the grave for its cost. Likewise, I predict the savvy deckbuilders would all focus on how to get this most efficiently while denying their opponents XP. Creature-less control seems like a great idea. Lots of discard and mass removal to level up efficiently. Play no creatures yourself to blank your opponents' removal and to be able to use Wrath of God without giving the opponent any XP for your creatures dying.
Each champion having their own way(s) to get XP would mean there's more variety in decks. You could have milling cards generate XP for 1 champion, but generate very little of it (or require more than 1 card to be milled). If you want to give the players chmapion benefits, like with the talent cards, at different levels -you can bind weaker level-up rewards to easier XP-genration triggers and stronger ones to harder XP triggers. That's two different levers for balancing, which is probably one more than is needed (varying how much XP different triggers produce probably works on its own) but it's definitely easier to balance something when you have more levers you can pull.
That actually makes a lot of sense. Through testing, tweaking the individual exp triggers would be easier than a global mechanic. More work on the development/creative side but much easier on the balancing side.
The dedicated champion card does solve some problems. I guess I just liked the idea of slapping different talents on the same commander to try different roles. There are already so many legendary creatures with build-around potential. To create even 10 champion cards and balance them would be tough, and then to have those being the only commanders for the format seems narrow. With even as little as 5 different talents that could be assigned to the hundreds of different legendary creatures, you'd have a lot more options.
I'm gonna start brain storming some different talents and see what I can come up with. The talents could also have the exp triggers attached.
Benevolence
Talent
Whenever a source you control causes a player to gain life or regenerates a creature, gain 1 exp.
Level 2 - Whenever a source you control would cause you to gain life, you may have target ally gain that much life instead.
Level 4 - Prevent the first 2 damage that would be dealt to your champion each turn.
Level 6 - Your champion has lifelink and hexproof.
Brawler
Talent
Whenever a creature you control fights a creature or deals combat damage to a creature, gain 1 exp.
Level 2 - Creatures you control get +1/+1.
Level 4 - Whenever two or more creatures attack you, untap up to two creatures you control.
Level 6 - Your champion has intimidate, reach, and trample.
Boiling Blood
Talent
Whenever a source you control deals noncombat damage, gain 1 exp.
Level 2 - Instant and Sorcery spells you control that deal damage deal 1 additional damage.
Level 4 - Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell with converted mana cost 2 or less, you may 2 life. If you do, copy that spell and you may choose new targets for the copy.
Level 6 - Your champion has "T: Target instant or sorcery spell in your graveyard gains flashback until end of turn. It's flashback cost is equal to its mana cost.
Illusionist
Talent
Whenever a source you control exiles a permanent or copies a spell, gain 3 exp.
Level 2 - Instant and sorcery spells you control have conspire.
Level 4 - You have hexproof.
Level 6 - Whenever your champion becomes the target of a spell or ability an opponent controls, put a token onto the battlefield that's a copy of your champion except it's name is Mirror Image, it's an Illusion in addition to its other types, and it has "Whenever this creature becomes the target of a spell or ability, sacrifice it."
Assassin
Talent
Whenever a creature card is put into an opponent's graveyard from anywhere, gain 1 exp.
Level 2 - Damage from sources you control can't be prevented.
Level 4 - Instant and sorcery spells you control have wither.
Level 6 - Your champion has first strike and death touch.
Fortitude
Talent
Whenever a creature you control blocks or source you control prevents damage, gain 2 exp.
Level 2 - Creatures you control get +0/+2.
Level 4 - Creatures you control have vigilance.
Level 6 - Your champion has protection from creatures.
Onslaught
Talent
Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, gain 1 exp.
Level 2 - Creature spells you control have convoke.
Level 4 - Creatures you control that share a creature type with your champion have haste.
Level 6 - Your champion has double strike and battlecry.
Taiga, Ageless Ascetic
Champion [m]WU[/m]
+4 XP - Exile a permanent or counter a spell.
Level 2 - Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control from exile, counter target noncreature spell.
Level 4 - You have hexproof.
Level 6 - Put a token onto the battlefield under your control that's a copy of target nonlegendary creature.
You've got some neat designs there. And actually, Doombringer and I are going to be bringing up this idea on a future episode of our Remaking Magic podcast. We'll be talking about this thread and some of the ideas it's spawned.
For the Champion structure, here's the current idea we're going off of...
Champions begin the game at level 1. They also begin the game with 3 basic lands in play of their choice (though color identity rules of the champions apply). Land are not included in decks. Decks are collections of 40 cards, with a maximum number of 4 copies of each card. Gaining a level costs 10 xp. It's likely that we'd need to have higher levels cost more xp (like 20 xp for your second level and 30 for your third), in order to encourage comebacks, but for now we're planning on keeping it simple. It helps to test more simply first and see if it works somehow, because adding complexity is easy.
Levels 2, 4 and 6 will be champion-specific, while players gain 2 more basic lands at levels 3 and 5. That means any desire to cast things above 7 mana would either be champion-specific or require you to build in mana-acceleration into your deck.
At levels 2 and 4, you'll get a benefit similar to what's been articulated above. Some static ability, or a useful activated one. Level 6 on the other hand, is likely to be a one-and-done with huge power (like searching your deck for 2 creatures and putting them onto the battlefield under your control, or dealing 5 damage to your opponents and all creatures they control). Every level gained thereafter will trigger the level 6 again, which is why it has to stack somehow.
Currently, we're not planning on using commanders in addition to talent cards. It is interesting to see how you can modify various commanders with such talent cards though, and I think that's a perfectly legitimate design - plus has the vast amount of more possibilities for deckbuilding. After all, 10 talent cards under your proposed system multiplies the current commander content by 10 - while 10 talent cards under the non-commander system only has 10 total options. This makes the format way more content-production-heavy, which is a developmental problem. However, it's also simpler - and allows us to test out the core ideas in a controlled environment. Modifying commanders involves a lot of potential variables, while standalone champion cards means we'll be able to focus on the new mechanics and ensure more consistent testing of the same things.
Some possible rough draft examples:
Pharaun, Master Mage
Champion - UR
+4 XP - Cast an instant or sorcery spell.
2: Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery, you may draw a card. If you do, discard a card.
4: Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, you may copy it and choose new targets for that copy.
6: Deal 4 damage to target player, then draw 4 cards.
Drevan, the Soulfire
Champion - R
+3 XP - Deal noncombat damage to a player.
2: Whenever a source you control deals noncombat damage to a player, increase that damage by 1.
4: Reduce the cost of red spells you control by 2.
6: Deal 5 damage to target player and all creatures that player controls.
I like the outline you have going. Dedicated Champions to serve as commanders definitely creates a smaller environment to test in, so I think that's probably best. Do you think Champions should be entitled to their own basic attack as well? Maybe something akin to Gideon Jura
Also I love the level 6 one-and-done effect. The fact that it is repeatable only after gaining another tier of XP captures the spirit of the "ultimate" abilities from MOBA style games.
Alternating level up rewards between land drops and power-packed abilities makes sense, and dropping 2 lands at a time certainly makes the level up feel more significant. I'd like to start addressing the issues that arise from the ways Mtg gameplay is being modified. For example, cards like Rampant Growth and Deprive will not work as intended. Are these types of cards usable at all for this format?
As for the Rampant Growth aspects, I find it's best to take the simplest approach. That is: you can include them in your deck, sure, but there are no lands in your deck... So it won't be able to find anything.
Other cards WILL have to be banned due to players not having lands in their decks, but those will be pretty obvious pretty quickly I hope. Mind Funeral, for example.
Rampant Growth seems like an easy fix, but what about cards like Explore, Scryb Ranger, or Deprive? Are lands able to be returned to the hand? If so are they played from hand one per turn as normal? If multiple lands have been returned (say with Meloku, the clouded mirror), could Explore be used?
I'm gonna update my OP to reflect the progress so far, and maybe try to port over a few of my talent cards to dedicated Champions. I've been meaning to check out your podcast, if only for inspiration. Really appreciate your input here.
My pleasure. As for those particular cards, I think we just simply restrict the lands from being in your deck to begin with and otherwise the game works as normal.
I'm looking forward to seeing some more of your designs.
So I've come up with 15 Champion cards, including your two samples. There is one for each dual pairing and one of each mono color. I figured that we should keep 3+ color decks away for now, again in the interests of maintaining a controlled testing environment. I'm much more happy with some of them than others, but I feel I captured the essence of the color pie. Milling the opponent gets little love, only because the decks are smaller.Glimpse the Unthinkable is on my ban radar already, even with out much support for mill via Champions.
I added what comprehensive rule changes have been made to the basic Mtg structure. I'm still trying to employ a max life cap, but we'll see if that works out.
I'm gonna start putting together some basic, unpowered deck lists for a few of the Champions and at least get some gold fishing in.
What player count is being assumed? I feel that 8 player games are interminably long, so I would suggest expecting, and designing for, 2v2 and 3v3 matches.
Also, because there's no laning phase, this really has more to do with RPG mechanics than the specific multiplayer-RPG gamestyle known as MOBAs. This is all teamfights all the time!
What player count is being assumed? I feel that 8 player games are interminably long, so I would suggest expecting, and designing for, 2v2 and 3v3 matches.
Also, because there's no laning phase, this really has more to do with RPG mechanics than the specific multiplayer-RPG gamestyle known as MOBAs. This is all teamfights all the time!
I had considered implementing a lane phase to represent the "early game" of MOBAs. But truth be told, there have been quite a few nitpickers who can think of one aspect of MOBA or another that is not directly implemented here. The bottom line - I'm trying to use MTG to capture the feeling of a team-based arena battle. I'm not trying to create a dedicated MOBA card game, where all facets of MOBA are represented and in perfect consistency with League of Legends, DOTA, etc.
If you read the posts in this thread, one subject discussed was the concept of "range of influence" which could represent "the lane". In this scenario, players could only attack the opponent directly in front of them. And players could only block attacks adjacent to them, or directly in front of them.
Another aspect of MOBA I haven't gotten into yet (that I would like to) is the item shop. Possibly maybe even a "golem" or "dragon" boss-type enemy that can be engaged and teamed-up-on by players for item loot. Having a generic set of useful equipment such as Skullclamp, Sword of Fire & Ice, Batterskull, Bonesplitter, Tatsumasa, the Dragon's Fang each with a designated "gold" cost could be considered the "shop". Maybe gold counters could be implemented and awarded certain game intervals, rather than EXP and leveling up.
Perfect simulation in a different medium is usually perfectly awful. Imagine playing Skyrim where it took you five hours real time to strap on a set of heavy armor.
It's best to draw inspiration from and capture the essence of some aspect of the source material. MTG did this with Theros and Innistrad. In real greek mythology, there are no Krakens and there is only one Pegasus. The gods also don't easily map to the color pie.
Heck, in MTG itself it makes no sense that you can't send your dragon to attack your opponent's soldiers directly (you need some sort of Fight spell or ability to do that). You can only charge it blindly at your opponent's face and they can decide to put something in the way to block. Not perfect simulation at all, but leads to better gameplay. It captures the essence of a fantasy battle, it doesn't try to perfectly simulate one.
The Rules:
-Decks are 40 cards, maximum of 4 copies per card.
-No land cards allowed in the deck.
-Players begin the game with a Champion (new card type) of their choice, and three basic lands with any type of the Champion's color identity.
-Champions gain experience (henceforth XP) each with their own mechanic or trigger.
-Levels 2, 4, and 6 grant you new abilities.
-Level 3 and 5 each allow the player to place two more basic lands, final land count being 7.
-Levels 2 and 3 require 10 XP to achieve, while 4 and 5 require an additional 20 XP.
-After a final 30 XP is earned, your Champion reaches level 6 and triggers a powerful ultimate ability.
-Each 30 XP earned thereafter triggers the effect again, but 6 is the max level.
-(Total XP from level 1 to level 6 is 90)
Respawns:
-Players begin the game with 20/20 life, employing a max life cap. This keeps infinite life combos in check.
-Each Champion level-up increases your current and max life by 2, maxing out at 30 life for level 6.
-A player is eliminated at 0 life or an empty library, no alt win cons. Alt loss conditions apply (Slaughter Pact)
-An eliminated player shuffles all non land cards back into their library, leaving their Champion and lands in play.
-Eliminated players skip one of their turns and then resumes the game at 20/X life, X reflecting their Champ level.
-The first team to reach 10 kills wins (this number is arbitrary and will likely be flexible)
Banned List:
-Goblin Charbelcher, Mind Funeral, Mind Grind, Path to Exile, and related land-interactive cards.
-Card pool for testing purposes will be Legacy, and probably reflect the Legacy ban list.
-Respawns and max life caps help keep infinite combos in check.
-Once we get deeper into testing, a more format-specific ban list will be constructed.
The Champions:
Taiga, the Illusionist
Champion WU
+4 XP - Whenever a source you control exiles a permanent or counters a spell.
Level 2 - Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, counter target non creature spell.
Level 4 - You have hexproof.
Level 6 - Put two tokens onto the battlefield that are copies of target nonlegendary creature you control.
4 Lone Missionary
4 Blade Splicer
3 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Brago, King Eternal
2 Heliod's Pilgrim
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Restoration Angel
4 Mana Leak
4 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Momentary Blink
1 Steel of the Godhead
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Angelic Destiny
Champion BR
+3 XP - Whenever a creature card is put into an opponent's graveyard from anywhere.
Level 2 - Damage from creatures you control can't be prevented.
Level 4 - Damage from noncreature sources you control is dealt as though it's source had Wither.
Level 6 - Put a creature card from an opponent's graveyard onto the battlefield under your control. It gains haste, first strike, and deathtouch.
4 Phyrexian Crusader
3 Necroskitter
3 Ichor Rats
2 Phyrexian Vatmother
2 Core Prowler
4 Thoughtseize
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Terminate
4 Anger of the Gods
3 Duress
3 Arc Trail
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
Galder, the Millennium King
Champion WB
+3 XP - Whenever a source you control causes a player to gain life.
Level 2 - Whenever a source you control would cause you to gain life, you may have target ally gain that much life instead.
Level 4 - At the beginning of the end step, if you gained 5 or more life this turn, target opponent loses 5 life.
Level 6 - Creatures target player controls gain protection from black and from white under end of turn. That player gains 5 life.
Valla, the Demon Slayer
Champion WR
+1 XP - Whenever a creature you control attacks.
+5 XP - Whenever another player is defeated.
Level 2 - 1WR: Target creature you control gets +2/+0 and gains indestructible until end of turn.
Level 4 - Creatures your allies control have haste.
Level 6 - If a creature an opponent controls has flying, creatures you control gain flying until end of turn. The same is true for first strike, deathtouch, hexproof, lifelink, intimidate, trample, protection, and double strike.
4 Akroan Hoplite
4 Boros Swiftblade
4 Champion of the Parish
3 Sunhome guildmage
3 Skyknight Legionnaire
3 Anax & Cymede
2 Hero of Bladehold
4 Reckless Charge
4 Lightning Helix
3 Artful Maneuver
3 Burning Oil
3 Rally the Righteous
Champion WG
+2 XP - Whenever a creature you control attacks or blocks.
Level 2 - Green creatures you control get +0/+1 and have vigilance.
Level 4 - White creatures you control get +1/+0 and have trample.
Level 6 - Creatures you control gain double strike and lifelink until end of turn.
4 Steward of Valeron
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Kitchen Finks
2 Tolsimir Wolfblood
2 Phantom Nishoba
4 Midnight Haunting
4 Gaea's Anthem
4 Glorious Anthem
2 Elspeth Tirel
2 Oblivion Ring
Champion UR
+4 XP - Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell.
Level 2 - Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery, you may draw a card. If you do, discard a card.
Level 4 - Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell with converted mana cost 3 or less, you may copy it and choose new targets for the copy.
Level 6 - Deal 4 damage to target player, then draw 4 cards.
Atibon Legba
Champion BG
+3 XP - Whenever a creature card is put into your graveyard from anywhere.
Level 2 - (B/G), exile a creature card from your graveyard: Add BG to your mana pool. Activate this ability only once each turn.
Level 4 - As long as you have 15 or less life, you may cast creature cards you own from exile.
Level 6 - Each opponent loses X life, where X is 20 minus your life total.
4 Gravecrawler
4 Rotting Rats
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Wild Mongrel
3 Putrid Leech
3 Diregraf Ghoul
3 Death's Shadow
2 Fauna Shaman
2 Varolz, the scar-striped
2 Brawn
2 Big game hunter
3 Murderous Cut
2 dismember
2 toxic deluge
Azazel, the Deceiver
Champion UB
+5 XP - Whenever you gain control of a permanent you don't own, or a permanent you control becomes a copy of a card you don't own.
Level 2 - Artifacts you control have "T, pay 1 life: Add U or B to your mana pool"
Level 4 - Creatures you control that you don't own get +2/+2 and have hexproof.
Level 6 - Gain control of each creature if it has the same name as a creature you already control.
Wilkenstein the Overgrown
Champion RG
+5 XP - Whenever you cast a spell with converted mana cost greater than the number of lands you control.
Level 2 - Sacrifice a land: the next creature spell you cast this turn has Bloodthirst 2.
Level 4 - Spells with X in their mana cost you cast cost 2 less to cast.
Level 6 - Return up to two target cards from your graveyard to your hand.
Darwald, Evolution's Masterpiece
Champion UG
+3 XP - Whenever one or more counters are added to or removed from a permanent you control.
Level 2 - Creatures you control with counters on them get +1/+1 and have flying.
Level 4 - Remove X counters from a permanent you control: Counter target spell unless it's controller pays X. Activate this ability only once each turn.
Level 6 - Return X target creatures to their owner's hands, where X is the highest number of counters on a permanent you control.
Baretta, Sky Valkyrie
Champion W
+3 XP - Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control.
Level 2 - Soldier and Spirit creatures you control get +1/+1
Level 4 - Creature spells you cast have convoke.
Level 6 - Search your library for an enchantment card and put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle your library.
Drevan, the Soulfire
Champion R
+3 XP - Whenever a source you control deals noncombat damage to a player.
Level 2 - Whenever a source you control deals noncombat damage to a player, increase that damage by 1.
Level 4 - Red spells you cast cost 2 less to cast.
Level 6 - Deal 5 damage to target player and each creature that player controls.
Radagg Wildspeaker
Champion G
+3 XP - Whenever a creature you control deals combat damage to a player or fights a creature.
Level 2 - Creatures you control get +1/+1.
Level 4 - Whenever two or more creatures attack you, untap up to two creatures you control.
Level 6 - Search your library for up to two creature cards with converted mana cost 4 or less and put them onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library.
Ihsahn, the Nightside Eclipse
Champion B
+3 XP - Whenever an opponent discards a card.
Level 2 - At the beginning of the end step, if two more or players have discarded a card this turn, each opponent loses 3 life.
Level 4 - Whenever an opponent discards a card, if that player has 2 or fewer cards in hand, that player loses 5 life.
Level 6 - Draw X cards and gain X life, where X is 10 minus the number of cards in the hand of the opponent with the most cards in hand.
4 Blood Scrivener
4 Nezumi Shortfang
4 Hypnotic Specter
Spells (28):
4 The Rack
4 Shrieking Affliction
4 Funeral Charm
4 Duress
4 Thoughtseize
2 Raven's Crime
2 Mind Twist
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Infernal Harvest
Champion U
+3 XP - Whenever you draw a card besides the first card you draw each turn.
Level 2 - At the beginning of each opponent's end step, draw a card.
Level 4 - Creatures you control get +X/+X, where X is the number of cards in your hand. Your maximum hand size in decreased by one.
Level 6 - Whenever you draw a card this turn, counter target spell.
Draft My Cube!
Please elaborate.
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My first draft of the idea employed a multiple champion per deck concept, mostly because I don't have a very large playground to test with (only about 2 guys interested). I think a team format would be best though - 2v2, 3v3, or 4v4 would be the way to go. That way your team can design their decks accordingly to work well together. A player piloting Lazav, Dimir Mastermind would use cards such as Chill of Foreboding that would benefit allies like Varolz, the Scar-striped. I guess it could work still in a 1v1 player manner. Decks would be let's say 20 cards per champion, i.e. a 3-champ deck would be 60 cards.
The overal format would imitate commander. Each player has a Champion that begins in the command zone and returns there if it would leave play. Instead of increasing the cost of the commander each time it is cast, it would have a suspend-like mechanic that just increases by one turn each time your champion is returned to the command zone (similar to the time you wait when you die in MOBA games). The champion's mana cost only needs to be paid the first time it is cast, then it returns automatically after the appropriate amount of counters have been removed (one per upkeep, just like suspend). Your deck can only include cards of your champion's color identity. I would love to employ the concept of the "Ultimate" from MOBA games. A powerful spell that only becomes available to you when you reach a certain "level" and has a particularly long "cool down". I feel like this would require a new card type completely, but one facet I considered to have a big spell, let's say minimum cmc 5, that is kept with your side pool and is automatically added to your hand when you reach your sixth land. This whole part is still very preliminary and undeveloped.
Combat formation could even be employed. In a 4v4 game, you could choose to block for your allies but only allies that are adjacent to you. Similarly you could only attack enemies that are adjacent or directly in front of you. In the interest of fairness, both teams would place their champions in formation face-down. They would all be turned face up once everybody has chosen formation.
I haven't made up my mind yet if it would be more interesting to allot each player a smaller life total (let's say 20) and force a defeated player to shuffle all their non land cards back into their deck, champion to return to command zone with +1 suspend time, and basically start over but with their lands still in play. Teams would play for X amount of time and the team with the highest score would win. -OR- the simpler option would be to give players a larger life total (30 or 40) but once a player is eliminated, they are gone for good. I like the first option better but it might yield some complicated rules and broken deck construction that is still unforeseen to me. Keeping all players involved for the duration of the game instead of punishing a player who is focus-fired in the beginning sounds more fun to me.
Unrelated but important to me is focusing on speed but also balance. I originally wanted the side pools to include only 4 lands, but that would of course yield deck building more similar to Tiny Leaders. And I figured I would lose the interest of players that like big spells, going big, and generally being Timmys.
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What are your thoughts? I love that I've sparked some interest here. It's always better to have the perspective of others to see things from angles I haven't thought of yet. My playground has conceded to try out whatever I come up with, but not particularly interested in the development part.
Draft My Cube!
If you're not familiar with the term "Design Goal", this should help.
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My design goal is to create a more in-depth team-based experience than something like two-headed giant. The deck construction, combat, and resource mechanics of my outline above could all be thrown out and redone, as long as I keep the focus on team-based strategy. Where cards with "target player gains X life" would be used on someone besides the player casting it, and cards with global effects such as my Chill of Foreboding example could be used to hurt your opponents as well as help your allies. Modifying deck construction to model HS (and my 7 basic / 3 nonbasic land side pool) is only applied to help balance the mana-screw aspect of Mtg.
Which elements of my draft do you think are worth expanding on? The article you linked was helpful in that it reminds me not to incorporate mechanics just for the flavor, but to ensure each new mechanic is relevant to my goal. But feedback on my actual content would be appreciated.
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To be honest, I'm feeling more and more like this needs to be a different game entirely. I love the flavor of many of the legendary creatures in Mtg, but I'm not sure it's the right facet for this concept. Team based EDH with range-of-influence attacking/blocking is probably as close as I'm going to get.
Draft My Cube!
I think it's possible to capture the spirit of a MOBA. Leveling up could be accomplished via either gaining more lands or better cards. An item shop probably isn't necessary, but could be built out of equipment. It wouldn't even be impossible to mimic LoL's dragon or turrets. Just porting over mechanics is a bad idea, but capturing the spirit is likely possible.
Of course, making a standalone game is going to be a lot easier for working the concept though.
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Draft My Cube!
1) Perhaps land drops don't happen automatically every turn. Let's say you start with a certain number of lands in play, then earn more when you level up.
2) Perhaps you start with a deck that has really weak spells (all 3cmc or less perhaps). At higher levels, you gain access to more powerful spells. Either they're shuffled into your deck, deckbuilder style, or you might draw from progressively more powerful decks as the game goes on.
3) A level-up deck is specifically constructred with certain constraints. Perhaps when you level up, you cast the top card of your level-up deck for free. It might be filled of useful enchantments, artifacts and so on that make your character stronger.
4) Level-up cards are made specifically for the format, the way schemes are made for archenemy. Perhaps there's a wizened mentor that is willing to train you in different things, and you can spend XP to buy upgrades from him.
As for what mechanics actually GAIN you these levels, I don't know yet. It's possible that the 'class' you pick at the start of the game could determine what gets you XP. For example, one class might gain 1 XP whenever a source he controls deals non-combat damage to an opponent. Another class might gain XP whenever he puts a creature from a graveyard to play under his control. These classes, or champions, could be vanguard-like custom designed cards you choose instead of or in addition to a commander.
It's worth noting that none of this represents a design goal. I'm just going through mechanics that could serve to mimic a level-up structure.
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Healer
Talent - Support
Level 1 - Whenever you would gain life, you may have target ally gain that much life instead.
Level 2 - Prevent the first 1 damage dealt to you each turn.
Level 3 - Your champion has hexproof.
Assassin
Talent - Offense
Level 1 - Damage from sources you control can't be prevented.
Level 2 - Creatures dealt damage by sources you control cannot be regenerated.
Level 3 - Creatures you control have first strike.
Exp could be earned by causing a card to be sent to the opponents graveyard. Countering a spell, forcing a discard, destroying a creature with combat or a spell. Milling the opponent probably shouldn't yield exp though since the cost:cards ratio is a bit skewed compared to the rest.
Draft My Cube!
The "Send a card to the opponent's grave for XP" seems interesting. But honestly, if you're willing to make talent cards, why not have a Champion card instead?
Drevan, the Soulfire
Champion
Color Identity - Red
+1 XP - A source you control deals noncombat damage to a player
Level 1 - Whenever an instant or sorcery you control would deal damage to a player, increase that damage by 1.
Level 2 - Reduce the costs of instant and sorcery spells you cast by 1.
Level 3 - Whenever an instant or sorcery you control deals damage to a player, put that many 1/1 red elemental tokens with haste onto the battlefield under your control.
You could have each champion have its own balanced method of gaining XP. I'm not sure it's necessary to have the level-ups be part of the champion card (I'd very much like to tie level ups to land drops or similar in order to work with the natural progression mechanics already in the game) but it's certainly doable.
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The lands could still be tied in as well. Let's say you start with 3 basic lands and 4 cards drawn from your deck as your starting hand. No lands in the deck to be drawn after that. At whatever exp intervals we deem appropriate, you could place a land from your side pool (this is you leveling up). After your first three lands, leveling up is the only way to increase your resources. Starting at level 1, the max level could be 6. Putting the final land cap at 8.
Another addition I thought of, in the spirit of level ups, is to increase your life total as you level up. Max starting life would be 20, but current and max life would increase by let's say 2 each time you level up, capping your max life at 30.
Draft My Cube!
Actually, the extra control over the various classes would probably make things easier. You can give some classes harder triggers to gain XP, and in return give them stronger abilities. Specific XP gaining methods also makes the format encourage different deckbuilds for various "champions". A deck that gives you XP every time you put a creature into play is going to be built very differently than Drevan up there, and both will be built differently from a deck that gets XP off lifegain. You could also give XP for more obscure things, like putting a card from a graveyard onto the battlefield under your control.
Unfortunately I've got to run out the door right now so I can't respond to the rest yet. See you later.
EDIT - The reason I said it might make things easier to bind specific XP triggers is that otherwise players will pick the maximally efficient method. Like you mentioned with Mill, it's so efficient it'd seriously reduce other possible decks because of how good it is at putting cards in the grave for its cost. Likewise, I predict the savvy deckbuilders would all focus on how to get this most efficiently while denying their opponents XP. Creature-less control seems like a great idea. Lots of discard and mass removal to level up efficiently. Play no creatures yourself to blank your opponents' removal and to be able to use Wrath of God without giving the opponent any XP for your creatures dying.
Each champion having their own way(s) to get XP would mean there's more variety in decks. You could have milling cards generate XP for 1 champion, but generate very little of it (or require more than 1 card to be milled). If you want to give the players chmapion benefits, like with the talent cards, at different levels -you can bind weaker level-up rewards to easier XP-genration triggers and stronger ones to harder XP triggers. That's two different levers for balancing, which is probably one more than is needed (varying how much XP different triggers produce probably works on its own) but it's definitely easier to balance something when you have more levers you can pull.
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The dedicated champion card does solve some problems. I guess I just liked the idea of slapping different talents on the same commander to try different roles. There are already so many legendary creatures with build-around potential. To create even 10 champion cards and balance them would be tough, and then to have those being the only commanders for the format seems narrow. With even as little as 5 different talents that could be assigned to the hundreds of different legendary creatures, you'd have a lot more options.
I'm gonna start brain storming some different talents and see what I can come up with. The talents could also have the exp triggers attached.
Benevolence
Talent
Whenever a source you control causes a player to gain life or regenerates a creature, gain 1 exp.
Level 2 - Whenever a source you control would cause you to gain life, you may have target ally gain that much life instead.
Level 4 - Prevent the first 2 damage that would be dealt to your champion each turn.
Level 6 - Your champion has lifelink and hexproof.
Brawler
Talent
Whenever a creature you control fights a creature or deals combat damage to a creature, gain 1 exp.
Level 2 - Creatures you control get +1/+1.
Level 4 - Whenever two or more creatures attack you, untap up to two creatures you control.
Level 6 - Your champion has intimidate, reach, and trample.
Boiling Blood
Talent
Whenever a source you control deals noncombat damage, gain 1 exp.
Level 2 - Instant and Sorcery spells you control that deal damage deal 1 additional damage.
Level 4 - Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell with converted mana cost 2 or less, you may 2 life. If you do, copy that spell and you may choose new targets for the copy.
Level 6 - Your champion has "T: Target instant or sorcery spell in your graveyard gains flashback until end of turn. It's flashback cost is equal to its mana cost.
Illusionist
Talent
Whenever a source you control exiles a permanent or copies a spell, gain 3 exp.
Level 2 - Instant and sorcery spells you control have conspire.
Level 4 - You have hexproof.
Level 6 - Whenever your champion becomes the target of a spell or ability an opponent controls, put a token onto the battlefield that's a copy of your champion except it's name is Mirror Image, it's an Illusion in addition to its other types, and it has "Whenever this creature becomes the target of a spell or ability, sacrifice it."
Assassin
Talent
Whenever a creature card is put into an opponent's graveyard from anywhere, gain 1 exp.
Level 2 - Damage from sources you control can't be prevented.
Level 4 - Instant and sorcery spells you control have wither.
Level 6 - Your champion has first strike and death touch.
Fortitude
Talent
Whenever a creature you control blocks or source you control prevents damage, gain 2 exp.
Level 2 - Creatures you control get +0/+2.
Level 4 - Creatures you control have vigilance.
Level 6 - Your champion has protection from creatures.
Onslaught
Talent
Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, gain 1 exp.
Level 2 - Creature spells you control have convoke.
Level 4 - Creatures you control that share a creature type with your champion have haste.
Level 6 - Your champion has double strike and battlecry.
Taiga, Ageless Ascetic
Champion [m]WU[/m]
+4 XP - Exile a permanent or counter a spell.
Level 2 - Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control from exile, counter target noncreature spell.
Level 4 - You have hexproof.
Level 6 - Put a token onto the battlefield under your control that's a copy of target nonlegendary creature.
Draft My Cube!
For the Champion structure, here's the current idea we're going off of...
Champions begin the game at level 1. They also begin the game with 3 basic lands in play of their choice (though color identity rules of the champions apply). Land are not included in decks. Decks are collections of 40 cards, with a maximum number of 4 copies of each card. Gaining a level costs 10 xp. It's likely that we'd need to have higher levels cost more xp (like 20 xp for your second level and 30 for your third), in order to encourage comebacks, but for now we're planning on keeping it simple. It helps to test more simply first and see if it works somehow, because adding complexity is easy.
Levels 2, 4 and 6 will be champion-specific, while players gain 2 more basic lands at levels 3 and 5. That means any desire to cast things above 7 mana would either be champion-specific or require you to build in mana-acceleration into your deck.
At levels 2 and 4, you'll get a benefit similar to what's been articulated above. Some static ability, or a useful activated one. Level 6 on the other hand, is likely to be a one-and-done with huge power (like searching your deck for 2 creatures and putting them onto the battlefield under your control, or dealing 5 damage to your opponents and all creatures they control). Every level gained thereafter will trigger the level 6 again, which is why it has to stack somehow.
Currently, we're not planning on using commanders in addition to talent cards. It is interesting to see how you can modify various commanders with such talent cards though, and I think that's a perfectly legitimate design - plus has the vast amount of more possibilities for deckbuilding. After all, 10 talent cards under your proposed system multiplies the current commander content by 10 - while 10 talent cards under the non-commander system only has 10 total options. This makes the format way more content-production-heavy, which is a developmental problem. However, it's also simpler - and allows us to test out the core ideas in a controlled environment. Modifying commanders involves a lot of potential variables, while standalone champion cards means we'll be able to focus on the new mechanics and ensure more consistent testing of the same things.
Some possible rough draft examples:
Pharaun, Master Mage
Champion - UR
+4 XP - Cast an instant or sorcery spell.
2: Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery, you may draw a card. If you do, discard a card.
4: Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, you may copy it and choose new targets for that copy.
6: Deal 4 damage to target player, then draw 4 cards.
Drevan, the Soulfire
Champion - R
+3 XP - Deal noncombat damage to a player.
2: Whenever a source you control deals noncombat damage to a player, increase that damage by 1.
4: Reduce the cost of red spells you control by 2.
6: Deal 5 damage to target player and all creatures that player controls.
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Also I love the level 6 one-and-done effect. The fact that it is repeatable only after gaining another tier of XP captures the spirit of the "ultimate" abilities from MOBA style games.
Alternating level up rewards between land drops and power-packed abilities makes sense, and dropping 2 lands at a time certainly makes the level up feel more significant. I'd like to start addressing the issues that arise from the ways Mtg gameplay is being modified. For example, cards like Rampant Growth and Deprive will not work as intended. Are these types of cards usable at all for this format?
Draft My Cube!
As for the Rampant Growth aspects, I find it's best to take the simplest approach. That is: you can include them in your deck, sure, but there are no lands in your deck... So it won't be able to find anything.
Other cards WILL have to be banned due to players not having lands in their decks, but those will be pretty obvious pretty quickly I hope. Mind Funeral, for example.
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Rampant Growth seems like an easy fix, but what about cards like Explore, Scryb Ranger, or Deprive? Are lands able to be returned to the hand? If so are they played from hand one per turn as normal? If multiple lands have been returned (say with Meloku, the clouded mirror), could Explore be used?
I'm gonna update my OP to reflect the progress so far, and maybe try to port over a few of my talent cards to dedicated Champions. I've been meaning to check out your podcast, if only for inspiration. Really appreciate your input here.
Draft My Cube!
I'm looking forward to seeing some more of your designs.
Remaking Magic - A Podcast for those that love MTG and Game Design
The Dungeon Master's Guide - A Podcast for those that love RPGs and Game Design
Sig-Heroes of the Plane
I added what comprehensive rule changes have been made to the basic Mtg structure. I'm still trying to employ a max life cap, but we'll see if that works out.
I'm gonna start putting together some basic, unpowered deck lists for a few of the Champions and at least get some gold fishing in.
Draft My Cube!
Also, because there's no laning phase, this really has more to do with RPG mechanics than the specific multiplayer-RPG gamestyle known as MOBAs. This is all teamfights all the time!
I had considered implementing a lane phase to represent the "early game" of MOBAs. But truth be told, there have been quite a few nitpickers who can think of one aspect of MOBA or another that is not directly implemented here. The bottom line - I'm trying to use MTG to capture the feeling of a team-based arena battle. I'm not trying to create a dedicated MOBA card game, where all facets of MOBA are represented and in perfect consistency with League of Legends, DOTA, etc.
If you read the posts in this thread, one subject discussed was the concept of "range of influence" which could represent "the lane". In this scenario, players could only attack the opponent directly in front of them. And players could only block attacks adjacent to them, or directly in front of them.
Another aspect of MOBA I haven't gotten into yet (that I would like to) is the item shop. Possibly maybe even a "golem" or "dragon" boss-type enemy that can be engaged and teamed-up-on by players for item loot. Having a generic set of useful equipment such as Skullclamp, Sword of Fire & Ice, Batterskull, Bonesplitter, Tatsumasa, the Dragon's Fang each with a designated "gold" cost could be considered the "shop". Maybe gold counters could be implemented and awarded certain game intervals, rather than EXP and leveling up.
Draft My Cube!
It's best to draw inspiration from and capture the essence of some aspect of the source material. MTG did this with Theros and Innistrad. In real greek mythology, there are no Krakens and there is only one Pegasus. The gods also don't easily map to the color pie.
Heck, in MTG itself it makes no sense that you can't send your dragon to attack your opponent's soldiers directly (you need some sort of Fight spell or ability to do that). You can only charge it blindly at your opponent's face and they can decide to put something in the way to block. Not perfect simulation at all, but leads to better gameplay. It captures the essence of a fantasy battle, it doesn't try to perfectly simulate one.
Remaking Magic - A Podcast for those that love MTG and Game Design
The Dungeon Master's Guide - A Podcast for those that love RPGs and Game Design
Sig-Heroes of the Plane