So, it's been some time since Esper was relevant. A long time. The major problem I see is that there are no Commanders that impact the game enough to complement the cards on the deck.
Well, now that's over. We received this gift on Commander 2016:
She is perfect to top a control deck. Her having an impressive amount of keywords - vigilance, flying and lifelink - makes for a great mix between Baneslayer Angel and Serra Angel, doing all that a creature needs to do in the Weissman school of control - Defending and helping you stay alive while attacking the opponent.
She also has an amazing ability that interacts very well with Planeswalkers, a good way for control decks to close out the game, and with Tangle Wire, making sure you can slow down the game while she flies over the air to beat face. No more Tangle Wire EDIT: wasn't good enough to pull it's weight against anything... Dromoka's Command came in as another instant way to deal with Keranos, God of Storms.
Esper always had access to some of the best disruption available, but with green added to the mix it becomes even stronger!
I decided to go with Mirri's Guile instead of Sylvan Library because ever since we went from 30 to 20 life points I never once drew extra cards from it. Also, Guile isn't affected by Leovold.
Elspeth, Knight-Errant also isn't the default choice for control decks with white but she comes down way sooner than Elspeth, Sun's Champion and can close out the game tossing creatures over Moat before Sun's Champion gets her emblem.
Also, I decided not to try any cards that were legal on the European Cup 2016 since we don't know if they will really be legal.
I'm not a huge fan of tezzeret or Tanglewire in this deck but to each their own. Also Chainers Edict instead of Diabolic Edict seems greedy. Also Dovin Baan deserves to be included. Really into this deck tho. Atraxa is really cool. Parallax Wave and Parallax Tide also stood out to me with her ability.
I'm trying out a Dark Bant fish build with Atraxa. It's basically a hybrid Jenara/Anafenza deck that runs the best counterspells and spot removal, with powerful 3 drops that can sometimes come out on turn 2.
I'm not a huge fan of tezzeret or Tanglewire in this deck but to each their own. Also Chainers Edict instead of Diabolic Edict seems greedy. Also Dovin Baan deserves to be included. Really into this deck tho. Atraxa is really cool. Parallax Wave and Parallax Tide also stood out to me with her ability.
I feel that Parallax Wave and Parallax Tide are worse versions of Wrath of God and Cataclysm/Armaggeddon in a control shell. In tempo they are great and serve a different role, but why use them when you much rather have an empty board?
Dovin Baan doesn't do enough IMO. We have better options if we want a defensive Planeswalker as well as better options for Planeswalker that draws us cards. I'd use Liliana, the last hope or Jace beleren before touching him, unless I'm playing Grand Arbiter Augustin IV[/card. I think even Kiora, the Crashing Wave is ahead, as she does basically the same things but does it better.
Chainer's edict is here as a concession against Geist of saint traft, even though there aren't that many on our meta right now. Against decks that want to stick a threat and protect it, you'll want to play your edict sorcery speed, and having one that can be replayed adds value for the long game. When I was playing Merieke, Chainer's Edict was great, only losing to Innocent Blood, but I don't feel I can run that w/o getting punished.
Lastly, Tezzeret has been performing very weel in a control shell. He can be an expensive Stoneforge Mystic as well as a way to fetch Vedalken Shackles, and sometimes that wins you the game by itself. Tangle Wire is a stretch indeed and I'll talk about it after playing with it a little more, as I've only drew it twice.
I'm trying out a Dark Bant fish build with Atraxa. It's basically a hybrid Jenara/Anafenza deck that runs the best counterspells and spot removal, with powerful 3 drops that can sometimes come out on turn 2.
I wanted to give the control version a try since many people around here are testing her as that tempo build. Why not use Tasigur as a "cheap" threat? Also, I'd try Simic Charm, Dromoka's Command and Blossoming Defense as "counters" that have more uses.
I don't like Shardless Agent with that many cmc 2 counters. Feels like they are a miss more times than not.
I always feel funny about Liliana of the Veil in tempo, she is powerful but ever since the last hope came out I found an smoother PW to run when I want to have cards in hand and also want some CA and removal.
I've really enjoyed Parallax Nexus in my build, it is essentially 3 mana for my opponent to discard 4.
Earlier you said something about Liliana, the Last Hope. Do you think she could be worthy of a place in this deck?
Only working as a discard 4 while your commander is out feels a little loose. I'd run the Last Hope if I were the tempo version, but I don't think I'd run her here.
Why no Esper Charm ? Card seems good, instant speed draw 2, discard two or exile target Keranos back to the command zone seems like it may be worth of an include imho.
So when everyone first saw this card and were clamoring over the possibilities with her, the first thing I saw was how she can come out super-early with 6x signets + 7x green 2-drop ramp effects, and then bash in with her flying evasive body on the following turn, when you could cast Hatred on her...
I'd have to disagree, I think Esper Charm is very powerful maybe deceptively powerful; I think it is definitely better than Tangle Wire/Anguished Unmaking at the very least.
Anguished Unmaking, in my opinion, is probably a touch better than Esper Charm in this deck simply because the lose 3 life drawback isn't as bad when our commander has lifelink and vigilance. I could see Esper Charm being played as a personal preference over Tangle Wire.
Tangle Wire is a very bad card here. It's only good when Atraxa is out and even then it's not that amazing. I'll replace it with Dromoka's Command.
Abzan Charm, Esper Charm, Sultai Charm, they are all great cards. The problem is that they cost 3 for effects that we can get for much cheaper. The 3 drops we already have are very powerful on their own, like Council's Judgment, Vindicate and Toxic Deluge. Abzan Charn draws us 2, but painful truths draws us 3, even if it's sorcery speed. We are not a true draw go, wydwen, never tap out deck. At least, thats not the way I've always played esper.
We could brew a version that never taps out, with lots of flash and instants. I just don't like playing that way...
Dromoka's Command has been very good for me. In my list, I run Night's Whispers and Sign in Blood becsuse they draw 2 for 2. Do you think they would be better off as Anticipate and Impulse. I'm torn as is.
They perform different roles. I used to like the 2 mana, draw 2, lose 2 when we had more life to work with. Now I'm inclined to use just Painful Truths because it's so efficient.
If Atraxa turns up to be an absurd source of lifegain, then I'll get Night's Whisper back into the deck. If she shows herself as only a way to keep the game going, then the taxation on our life points will be too great.
Now that Necropotence and Yawgmoth's Bargain are legal to play, do you think they have a place in this deck? I see at least Necro as a powerful way to refill your hand, especially since our commander is a strong life gain source. The triple black mana cost on it may be its downfall. Bargain seems like it may cost too much, yet its raw power may more than make up for it. Any thoughts?
Parallax Tide and Parallax Wave seem really good here with Atraxa's proliferate. Not even sure you need to run stifle/trickbind, but its probably not be a bad idea.
Tested a lot on cockatrice, and today on paper, and the deck is really soft against Blood Moon, but playing around it isn't that hard if you just assume all decks with Red can play Moon effects and some Black decks can play Contamination and/or Infernal Darkness. I was going as far as Demonic Tutoring for Abrupt Decay and just letting it sit on my hand until either it didn't matter if I was mooned or it came.
Rector is a house. Being able to fetch for either Yawgmoth's Bargain, against grindy games or against control, or for Moat against aggressive strategies is just absurd. Tezzeret is great against aggro but rector does that better.
Doesn't think I want Balance yet but it may come in as an edict against Geist in white just gets them with their pants down most of the time.
How are your matchups against Vial/Kraum, Vial/Reyhan and other hyper aggro? I havent seen Atraxa make the top 8 in mtgtop8. Although Atraxa has so much upside and potential
I'm back in Black - and blue and white... I'll be honest and admit that I've been working with the enemy, aka Vial-Kraum, and had great success with it.
Thing is that next month we'll play a Duel Commander Invitational Tournament and I've been looking for something that can have a good match up against Vial-Kraum. I think either Atraxa or Merieke might be it.
EDIT: After closing this page I remembered! I've been trying Rune of Protection: Red on anything that has white and isn't aggressive and it's amazing. You can keep mana up and cycle it on matches where it doesn't matter and when you have it against Vial/Kraum they can rarely interact with it. 10/10 would try it again.
How are your matchups against Vial/Kraum, Vial/Reyhan and other hyper aggro? I havent seen Atraxa make the top 8 in mtgtop8. Although Atraxa has so much upside and potential
Reyhan/Bruse can be quite tough but moat and Atraxa are very strong against them. Vial/Kraum is hard as nails, and if I can keep her on the board the extra 4 lifes per turn is hard for them to overcome, but most of the Vial builds are so heavy on removal that it's a nearly impossible task.
how is going with the list? i'm testing atraxa control, my list is similar to yours, exept for some cards, and i have big problems with the cyrrent meta. Anyway good jobe for the list!
What are the cards you are using that differ from my list? Also, what's your meta like?
So, it's been some time since Esper was relevant. A long time. The major problem I see is that there are no Commanders that impact the game enough to complement the cards on the deck.
Well, now that's over. We received this gift on Commander 2016:
She also has an amazing ability that interacts very well with Planeswalkers, a good way for control decks to close out the game,
and with Tangle Wire, making sure you can slow down the game while she flies over the air to beat face.No more Tangle Wire EDIT: wasn't good enough to pull it's weight against anything... Dromoka's Command came in as another instant way to deal with Keranos, God of Storms.Esper always had access to some of the best disruption available, but with green added to the mix it becomes even stronger!
1x Academy Ruins
1x Adarkar Wastes
1x Arid Mesa
1x Bayou
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Breeding Pool
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Celestial Colonnade
1x Creeping Tar Pit
1x Flagstones of Trokair
1x Flooded Strand
1x Godless Shrine
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Hinterland Harbor
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Marsh Flats
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Opal Palace
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Polluted Delta
1x Savannah
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Scrubland
1x Shambling Vent
3x Snow-Covered Island
2x Snow-Covered Plains
1x Snow-Covered Swamp
1x Temple Garden
1x Tropical Island
1x Tundra
1x Underground River
1x Underground Sea
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Watery Grave
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Anguished Unmaking
1x Brainstorm
1x Condescend
1x Counterspell
1x Countersquall
1x Cryptic Command
1x Dromoka's Command
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Evasive Action
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Force of Will
1x Logic Knot
1x Mana Leak
1x Memory Lapse
1x Miscalculation
1x Mystic Confluence
1x Nature's Claim
1x Path to Exile
1x Remand
1x Spell Pierce
1x Swords to Plowshares
Creature (9)
1x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1x Kitchen Finks
1x Snapcaster Mage
1x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1x Thing in the Ice
1x Torrential Gearhulk
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Wall of Omens
Planeswalker (4)
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Tamiyo, Field Researcher
1x Tezzeret the Seeker
1x Ancestral Vision
1x Cataclysm
1x Chainer's Edict
1x Council's Judgment
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Gerrard's Verdict
1x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Lingering Souls
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Painful Truths
1x Ponder
1x Preordain
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Thoughtseize
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Vindicate
1x Wrath of God
Artifact (4)
1x Batterskull
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Vedalken Shackles
Enchantment (3)
1x Bitterblossom
1x Mirri's Guile
1x Moat
I decided to go with Mirri's Guile instead of Sylvan Library because ever since we went from 30 to 20 life points I never once drew extra cards from it. Also, Guile isn't affected by Leovold.
Elspeth, Knight-Errant also isn't the default choice for control decks with white but she comes down way sooner than Elspeth, Sun's Champion and can close out the game tossing creatures over Moat before Sun's Champion gets her emblem.
Also, I decided not to try any cards that were legal on the European Cup 2016 since we don't know if they will really be legal.
Edits:
10/29/16
-1 Tangle Wire
-1 Volrath's Stronghold
+1 Opal Palace
+1 Dromoka's Command
https://deckstats.net/deck-11489837-adebc7b2a962ec02fff6646a09663296.html
1. Jace High Tide Control
2. 5CC Horde Scapeshift
3. Selvala Channel Emrakul
4. Selvala GW Combo
5. Keranos Wildfire
Damia (EDH)
Niv-Mizzet (EDH)
Karador the Hermit Druid (EDH)
I feel that Parallax Wave and Parallax Tide are worse versions of Wrath of God and Cataclysm/Armaggeddon in a control shell. In tempo they are great and serve a different role, but why use them when you much rather have an empty board?
Dovin Baan doesn't do enough IMO. We have better options if we want a defensive Planeswalker as well as better options for Planeswalker that draws us cards. I'd use Liliana, the last hope or Jace beleren before touching him, unless I'm playing Grand Arbiter Augustin IV[/card. I think even Kiora, the Crashing Wave is ahead, as she does basically the same things but does it better.
Chainer's edict is here as a concession against Geist of saint traft, even though there aren't that many on our meta right now. Against decks that want to stick a threat and protect it, you'll want to play your edict sorcery speed, and having one that can be replayed adds value for the long game. When I was playing Merieke, Chainer's Edict was great, only losing to Innocent Blood, but I don't feel I can run that w/o getting punished.
Lastly, Tezzeret has been performing very weel in a control shell. He can be an expensive Stoneforge Mystic as well as a way to fetch Vedalken Shackles, and sometimes that wins you the game by itself. Tangle Wire is a stretch indeed and I'll talk about it after playing with it a little more, as I've only drew it twice.
I wanted to give the control version a try since many people around here are testing her as that tempo build. Why not use Tasigur as a "cheap" threat? Also, I'd try Simic Charm, Dromoka's Command and Blossoming Defense as "counters" that have more uses.
I don't like Shardless Agent with that many cmc 2 counters. Feels like they are a miss more times than not.
I always feel funny about Liliana of the Veil in tempo, she is powerful but ever since the last hope came out I found an smoother PW to run when I want to have cards in hand and also want some CA and removal.
Earlier you said something about Liliana, the Last Hope. Do you think she could be worthy of a place in this deck?
BGWKarador, Night of the Wood God
UBRMarchesa, The Black Rose
BRGProssh, Suicide Crew
Only working as a discard 4 while your commander is out feels a little loose. I'd run the Last Hope if I were the tempo version, but I don't think I'd run her here.
Duly noted. You also misspelled Brazillian laughter, it's HuEhEUhEUhEUh not kkkkk. Don't hide yourself from the world, man.
Just an idea.
Links to my most current deck lists;
Primary EDH; Rakka Mar Token Perfection, Crosis Mnemonic Betrayal, Cromat Villainous, Judith Gravestorm, Rakdos Empty Storm, Exava Artifacts, Bant Trash, & Fumiko Voltron!
EDH kept at home; Ruzzian Isset & Rakdos LoR!
EDH (nostalgic/pimp/retired) in storage;
Latulla Burns, Akroma Smash, Jeska Voltron, Rakdos Storm, Bladewing Darghans, Lyzolda Worldgorger, Xantcha Steals your Heart, Jori Storm, Wydwen Permission, Gwendlyn Paradox, Jeleva Warps, & Sigarda Brick!
Legacy Showanimator and High Tide!
What do you guys think of Sultai Charm and Abzan Charm?
BGWKarador, Night of the Wood God
UBRMarchesa, The Black Rose
BRGProssh, Suicide Crew
BGWKarador, Night of the Wood God
UBRMarchesa, The Black Rose
BRGProssh, Suicide Crew
They were collateral from a tempo version of the list I was trying and I guess I oversaw them as I updated the list.
BGWKarador, Night of the Wood God
UBRMarchesa, The Black Rose
BRGProssh, Suicide Crew
Abzan Charm, Esper Charm, Sultai Charm, they are all great cards. The problem is that they cost 3 for effects that we can get for much cheaper. The 3 drops we already have are very powerful on their own, like Council's Judgment, Vindicate and Toxic Deluge. Abzan Charn draws us 2, but painful truths draws us 3, even if it's sorcery speed. We are not a true draw go, wydwen, never tap out deck. At least, thats not the way I've always played esper.
We could brew a version that never taps out, with lots of flash and instants. I just don't like playing that way...
BGWKarador, Night of the Wood God
UBRMarchesa, The Black Rose
BRGProssh, Suicide Crew
If Atraxa turns up to be an absurd source of lifegain, then I'll get Night's Whisper back into the deck. If she shows herself as only a way to keep the game going, then the taxation on our life points will be too great.
You normally only need 3 or 4 Islands in play for Vedalken Shackles to be good and that's easily achievable.
BGWKarador, Night of the Wood God
UBRMarchesa, The Black Rose
BRGProssh, Suicide Crew
After the new unbannings I went:
+Yawgmoth's Bargain
+Academy Rector
-Tezzeret the Seeker
-Academy Ruins
Rector is a house. Being able to fetch for either Yawgmoth's Bargain, against grindy games or against control, or for Moat against aggressive strategies is just absurd. Tezzeret is great against aggro but rector does that better.
Doesn't think I want Balance yet but it may come in as an edict against Geist in white just gets them with their pants down most of the time.
Thing is that next month we'll play a Duel Commander Invitational Tournament and I've been looking for something that can have a good match up against Vial-Kraum. I think either Atraxa or Merieke might be it.
Yahenni's Expertise, Fatal Push and Balance are all cards that can fit right in here. I also think that we can fit one more green card in here, Leovold, Emissary of Trest, since he at the very least cycles most of the times when being removed. Also, I'm testing Future Sight instead of Yawgmoth's Bargain as the other Academy Rector target but I don't think it will be nearly as good.
EDIT: After closing this page I remembered! I've been trying Rune of Protection: Red on anything that has white and isn't aggressive and it's amazing. You can keep mana up and cycle it on matches where it doesn't matter and when you have it against Vial/Kraum they can rarely interact with it. 10/10 would try it again.
Reyhan/Bruse can be quite tough but moat and Atraxa are very strong against them. Vial/Kraum is hard as nails, and if I can keep her on the board the extra 4 lifes per turn is hard for them to overcome, but most of the Vial builds are so heavy on removal that it's a nearly impossible task.
What are the cards you are using that differ from my list? Also, what's your meta like?