When you're clock is, potentially, turn 1 on the play and your deck involves a 1-card combo, you know you're doing something right.
Hypergenesis is a combo deck that plays its namesake not through an arduous 3-turn suspend cost but through a 3 casting cost spell Cascade trigger. The Hypergenesis allows you to drop any number of creatures you likely traded to some new player for his foil Jitte way-back-when. Including the Hypergensis you use to win with.
Does Hypergenesis get played/casted when cascaded into or does it get suspended?
Cascade clearly mentions that the player may cast the spell without paying its mana cost. The text of Suspend reads: "...cast it without paying its mana cost."
So yes. Hypergenesis will be casted when cascaded into.
Does Chalice of the Void counter Hypergenesis?
Yes. Hypergenesis has a converted mana cost of 0 when casted.
Can I counter Ardent Plea/Violent Outburst/Demonic Dread and stop Cascade from triggering?
You can counter the spell, but Cascade will still trigger. Cascade triggers when the spell is casted, similar to the Storm mechanic.
Similarly, if Demonic Dread targets a creature, removing its target will not stop Cascade from triggering.
Advanced questions regarding Hypergenesis:
Hypergenesis has the following text: Hypergenesis is green.
Suspend 3—1GG (Rather than cast this card from your hand, pay 1GG and exile it with three time counters on it. At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a time counter. When the last is removed, cast it without paying its mana cost.)
Starting with you, each player may put an artifact, creature, enchantment, or land card from his or her hand onto the battlefield.
My opponent casts Hypergenesis, can I choose not to put anything down so my opponent cannot put anymore permanents down after the first?
No. Your opponent can continue putting down non-planeswalker permanents even if you choose not to put.
Similarly, if your opponent chooses not to put, you can still continue putting stuff down.
My opponent puts down an Angel of Despair before I put down my Tarmogoyf. Then Hypergenesis finishes resolving.
I think he cannot target my Tarmogoyf with Angel's ability. Am I right?
You are wrong. Static and triggered abilities, as well as spells, do not occur or, if relevant, go on the stack during the resolving of a spell.
In short, static abilities that begin with "As" will only occur after Hypergenesis is done resolving. Triggered abilities will only go on the stack, and choose its targets (if any), when Hypergenesis is done resolving.
My opponent casts Hypergenesis and puts down Angel of Despair. I put down a Regal Force. Then Hypergenesis finishes resolving. Do I get to draw a card off Regal Force or does the Angel destroy Regal Force before its triggered ability resolves?
It depends on the turn in which Hypergenesis is casted. If Hypergenesis is casted on your opponent's turn, he would be the active player and you will be the non-active player.
What this means is that your opponent will put his/her triggered abilities on the stack first, choosing their targets, if any, before you do the same.
Since your opponent put his/her triggered abilities on the stack first, they will be the last to resolve. This means that Regal Force's triggered ability will resolve first and you will get to draw cards equal to the number of green creatures you control before Angel destroys your Regal Force.
However, the opposite will happen if Hypergenesis is casted during your turn. Your triggered abilities will go on the stack first followed by your opponent's. That means your opponent's triggered abilities will resolve first.
Does the order of the creatures/enchantments/lands/artifacts affect the order in which the triggered abilities go on the stack or the order in which the static abilities occur?
No. You choose the order in which your abilities go on the stack or occur while your opponent chooses his/her order as well.
Does Chalice of the Void for 0 counter Hypergenesis?
Yes. Hypergenesis has a converted mana cost of 0 when cast.
How does Hypergenesis go about resolving?
For example, Player A casts Hypergenesis.
The opponent is Player B.
Let the following actions be classified into letters/numerals:
(Player A puts something into the battlefield.) = A1
(Player B puts something into the battlefield.) = B1
(Player A does not put something into the battlefield.) = A2
(Player B does not put something into the battlefield.) = B2
This is what will happen.
Step 1
A starts off. A has 2 choices, A1 and A2.
If A1 happens, pass to B. (Go to Step 2.)
If A2 happens, pass to B. (Go to Step 3.)
Step 2
B has 2 choices, B1 and B2.
If B1 happens, pass to A. (Repeat Step 1.)
If B2 happens, pass to A. (Repeat Step 1.)
Step 3
B has 2 choices, B1 and B2.
If B1 happens, pass to A. (Repeat Step 1.)
If B2 happens, Hypergenesis finishes resolving.
Might want to edit the post to fix the sideboard, which is terrible by the way. The point of the deck is for hypergenesis to be the only card with CC under three to guarantee that you cascade into hypergenesis so why would there be 6 cards with CC under 3 in the board?
dispite what we all may think the guy that ran that build did find his way into a pro tour top 8 so we may say it's crap but the crap did work for him.
The reason to run the 2cc cards is BECAUSE you can hit them with Cascade. The matches you bring them in are not about racing; you have all the time in the world to cascade into Hypergenesis.
I assume the Meddling Mages are for the mirror; my group had the same idea. You can side out your own Hypergenesis for them and simply beat for 2 ten turns in a row with your Mages while your opponent had no possible way to win. I could be wrong there, though.
The reason to run the 2cc cards is BECAUSE you can hit them with Cascade. The matches you bring them in are not about racing; you have all the time in the world to cascade into Hypergenesis.
I assume the Meddling Mages are for the mirror; my group had the same idea. You can side out your own Hypergenesis for them and simply beat for 2 ten turns in a row with your Mages while your opponent had no possible way to win. I could be wrong there, though.
Ok the Meddling Mage idea is brilliant so that explains that. Is Shusher really that good for the counter matchup?
Might want to edit the post to fix the sideboard, which is terrible by the way. The point of the deck is for hypergenesis to be the only card with CC under three to guarantee that you cascade into hypergenesis so why would there be 6 cards with CC under 3 in the board?
Van figured out that you don't need to win the turn Hypergenesis resolves.
I see, wondering why there's susher too. Is kataki, war's wage a possible SB option for this deck? What happened to the other hypergenesis thread btw:)?
I see, wondering why there's susher too. Is kataki, war's wage a possible SB option for this deck?
No, for the same reason that Meddling Mage/Vexing Shusherare in there: Kataki is really only good against Affinity; IMO, the plan with Affinity is to race, not to try and be the control deck. You can't afford to race 2 3 mana, hit Kataki, then look like an idiot when he pays for his ravager, sacs everything he can't pay for, and bashes you for the game when that Cascade could've turned up Hypergenesis.
What happened to the other hypergenesis thread btw:)?
I imagine Kijin moved it to Archives so people wouldn't have to slog through a million billion pages of pre-rotation (read: irrelevant) discussion on the deck.
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The reason to run the 2cc cards is BECAUSE you can hit them with Cascade. The matches you bring them in are not about racing; you have all the time in the world to cascade into Hypergenesis.
I assume the Meddling Mages are for the mirror; my group had the same idea. You can side out your own Hypergenesis for them and simply beat for 2 ten turns in a row with your Mages while your opponent had no possible way to win. I could be wrong there, though.
Depends on their opening hand and draw. If they happen to get enough mana, they could simply hardcast something in their hand. Then again, you could as well. The game certainly leans in your favor, but it is probably still a coin flip.
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"I don't know why people say a double-edged sword is bad. It's a sword. With two edges." - Kamahl, Pit Fighter
In my opinion, the list above could be even better. Thirst for Knowledge doesn't seem too smart to me as there are literally no possible artifacts to discard. I guess he has Firespout to board wipe and extend the clock and the maindeck Sundering Titan seem to be geared hugely towards Zoo.
I wasn't aware that Zoo was so popular already, but I never really had a problem with it and thought that the matchup wasn't too big of a problem so it didn't deserve any stream lining. I was more concerned about Fairies and such. I've maindecked Vendilion Clique.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
I think the Meddling Mages would be good against other non-counter control decks. It would have helped me in a few matches I had against a ramp/deathcloud type deck. I went off turn 3, dropped Progenitus/Red Akroma (Akorma), he dropped all his land, including his bouncelands, deathcloud for 3 and I was hosed.
It is really hard to recover after that. Even if it had just been a ***. I find that if my creatures somehow leave the board, it is hard to recover for the win.
I am mainly concered with what other creatures we could possibly run in there to have a better effect or as other options to the ones the lost up there. Angel of D. and S. Titan are musts in my opinion. Espically if any certain ones could help in certain matchs.
I am mainly concered with what other creatures we could possibly run in there to have a better effect or as other options to the ones the lost up there. Angel of D. and S. Titan are musts in my opinion. Espically if any certain ones could help in certain matchs.
In the matches I played Sundering Titan seemed like it should have been a SB option. Extended seems to have a TON of non-basics, so while nuking maybe one or two lands is still good I was much happier to have a Progenitus, Angel of Despair, or Akroma, Angel of Wrath in my hand than a sundering Titan.
As for other creatures I was considering putting Iona, Shield of Emeria in the deck. She is a lock against a lot of decks, which have removal in only one color.
I was also thinking about Realm Razer. It would be a lock against a board which can't outrace you. Especially if you go off turn 3 instead of 2, when they have more land in play and are going to be topdecking to try to get land AND a kill card. Its not as though the deck runs a lot of post-Hypergenesis protection cards.
In the matches I played Sundering Titan seemed like it should have been a SB option. Extended seems to have a TON of non-basics, so while nuking maybe one or two lands is still good I was much happier to have a Progenitus, Angel of Despair, or Akroma, Angel of Wrath in my hand than a sundering Titan.
As for other creatures I was considering putting Iona, Shield of Emeria in the deck. She is a lock against a lot of decks, which have removal in only one color.
I was also thinking about Realm Razer. It would be a lock against a board which can't outrace you. Especially if you go off turn 3 instead of 2, when they have more land in play and are going to be topdecking to try to get land AND a kill card. Its not as though the deck runs a lot of post-Hypergenesis protection cards.
Shouldnt you try 1 red and 1 white Akroma? I would prefer that for options against other decks. Naya and path to exile will prolly be everywhere so Red Akroma seems like a must,
I'm not sure if there is some obvious reason not to do it, but with Ghost Quarter being run everywhere as hate for this deck and Dephts, wouldn't a singleton mountain and/or island be good in the board? You bring them in, hope not to draw it and if they try to quarter you, you timewalk them. If they come in your hand, tough luck, mulligan accordingly, just don't side them in replacing any of the lands.
Also, is there any reasonable answer to run for a resolved magus or blood moon? (besides eventually hardcasting hellkite, red akroma andsundering titan) Or, since you can be faster than it even on the draw, is it better just to ignore it and accept an eventual loss when you fail to go out on turn 3, rather than clunkying up your deck?
I'm not sure if there is some obvious reason not to do it, but with Ghost Quarter being run everywhere as hate for this deck and Dephts, wouldn't a singleton mountain and/or island be good in the board? You bring them in, hope not to draw it and if they try to quarter you, you timewalk them. If they come in your hand, tough luck, mulligan accordingly, just don't side them in replacing any of the lands.
Also, is there any reasonable answer to run for a resolved magus or blood moon? (besides eventually hardcasting hellkite, red akroma andsundering titan) Or, since you can be faster than it even on the draw, is it better just to ignore it and accept an eventual loss when you fail to go out on turn 3, rather than clunkying up your deck?
Some decks ran a handful of basic Forest in the SB for Krosan Grip to deal with Blood Moon effects. The only creature I really want to see added is Dragon.
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"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
This seems like the deck I'll attempt to make come extended season.
It's suprisingly cheap too, with reflecting pool being the most expensive card (I think)
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Complaining about card prices accomplishes nothing. Read some Medina articles, learn to trade better, don’t act like the only way to do ANYTHING in this game is to price out decks and buy every single you ever need.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
In the matches I played Sundering Titan seemed like it should have been a SB option. Extended seems to have a TON of non-basics, so while nuking maybe one or two lands is still good I was much happier to have a Progenitus, Angel of Despair, or Akroma, Angel of Wrath in my hand than a sundering Titan.
As for other creatures I was considering putting Iona, Shield of Emeria in the deck. She is a lock against a lot of decks, which have removal in only one color.
I was also thinking about Realm Razer. It would be a lock against a board which can't outrace you. Especially if you go off turn 3 instead of 2, when they have more land in play and are going to be topdecking to try to get land AND a kill card. Its not as though the deck runs a lot of post-Hypergenesis protection cards.
Magus of the Moon is taken care of by the Firespouts main...and if you're facing a lot of them (along with Med Mage and Canonist) you can bring in Rift Bolts as well.
Some answers to Blood Moon, I've been testing Forest (for Ghost Quarter as well) + Grip. Or Coalition Relic out of the sb. Blood Moon hurts, especially backed by the pressure Rubin Zoo can put on you.
A few questions...
Is Baneslayer as bad as the Austin QF match shows for us?
What answers do we have as we're going off against Dark Depths + Hexmage?
I understand with the right hand we can race them with Progen + flying chump blockers...or build the deck to kill the turn it goes off. But anything we put into play with the resolution of Hypergen, their combo beats. I've thumbed through many options:
Oring/Hellkite/D.Angel/Venser/Duplicant...all of these abilities will target, and then they get the opportunity to sac Hexmage and gain a 20/20, no matter what we target.
We could save bounce in hand (Venser or Wipe Away) if we reach the stage we can save mana for it without dying.
Two ideas that have had a little more success are:
Ghost Quarters...this slows us down a little by maybe not giving us the colored mana we need for a turn 2 Plea. But still can stop the resolution of DD.
Malfegor...this has been getting the most success. With him, I can drop him with a couple of cards in hand, and when I discard, it gives my opponent the option of sacrificing either the Hexmage or resolving his combo in response and binning the token. Either way it can help against other decks with creatures...and might be able to cap a Baneslayer if they have a creature light hand. I play 1 main 1 sb..might up it if DD get's more popular.
Thoughts?
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Hypergenesis is a combo deck that plays its namesake not through an arduous 3-turn suspend cost but through a 3 casting cost spell Cascade trigger. The Hypergenesis allows you to drop any number of creatures you likely traded to some new player for his foil Jitte way-back-when. Including the Hypergensis you use to win with.
4 Forbidden Orchard
3 Fungal Reaches
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Reflecting Pool
4 Tendo Ice Bridge
1 Akroma, Angel of Fury
4 Angel of Despair
4 Bogardan Hellkite
4 Progenitus
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Sundering Titan
2 Demonic Dread
3 Firespout
3 Hypergenesis
3 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Violent Outburst
1 Akroma, Angel of Fury
1 Firespout
1 Fungal Reaches
1 Ingot Chewer
3 Meddling Mage
2 Putrefy
3 Venser, Shaper Savant
3 Vexing Shusher
Here's a helpful FAQ written up by The Deceiver:
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I assume the Meddling Mages are for the mirror; my group had the same idea. You can side out your own Hypergenesis for them and simply beat for 2 ten turns in a row with your Mages while your opponent had no possible way to win. I could be wrong there, though.
Ok the Meddling Mage idea is brilliant so that explains that. Is Shusher really that good for the counter matchup?
Van figured out that you don't need to win the turn Hypergenesis resolves.
Remand can steal the match for your opponent.
I'm going with "yes."
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No, for the same reason that Meddling Mage/Vexing Shusher are in there: Kataki is really only good against Affinity; IMO, the plan with Affinity is to race, not to try and be the control deck. You can't afford to race 2 3 mana, hit Kataki, then look like an idiot when he pays for his ravager, sacs everything he can't pay for, and bashes you for the game when that Cascade could've turned up Hypergenesis.
I imagine Kijin moved it to Archives so people wouldn't have to slog through a million billion pages of pre-rotation (read: irrelevant) discussion on the deck.
Avatar courtesy of the wondermous Lord Tirian.
Depends on their opening hand and draw. If they happen to get enough mana, they could simply hardcast something in their hand. Then again, you could as well. The game certainly leans in your favor, but it is probably still a coin flip.
I wasn't aware that Zoo was so popular already, but I never really had a problem with it and thought that the matchup wasn't too big of a problem so it didn't deserve any stream lining. I was more concerned about Fairies and such. I've maindecked Vendilion Clique.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=157778
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
It is really hard to recover after that. Even if it had just been a ***. I find that if my creatures somehow leave the board, it is hard to recover for the win.
Thanks to Rising Studios!
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"Wizards could put $100 bills in packs and people would complain about how they were folded."
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In the matches I played Sundering Titan seemed like it should have been a SB option. Extended seems to have a TON of non-basics, so while nuking maybe one or two lands is still good I was much happier to have a Progenitus, Angel of Despair, or Akroma, Angel of Wrath in my hand than a sundering Titan.
As for other creatures I was considering putting Iona, Shield of Emeria in the deck. She is a lock against a lot of decks, which have removal in only one color.
I was also thinking about Realm Razer. It would be a lock against a board which can't outrace you. Especially if you go off turn 3 instead of 2, when they have more land in play and are going to be topdecking to try to get land AND a kill card. Its not as though the deck runs a lot of post-Hypergenesis protection cards.
Shouldnt you try 1 red and 1 white Akroma? I would prefer that for options against other decks. Naya and path to exile will prolly be everywhere so Red Akroma seems like a must,
Thanks to Rising Studios!
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My Trade Thread: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=179137
"Wizards could put $100 bills in packs and people would complain about how they were folded."
In Memory of Dr. Jeebus. Banned, but not forgotten.
Also, is there any reasonable answer to run for a resolved magus or blood moon? (besides eventually hardcasting hellkite, red akroma andsundering titan) Or, since you can be faster than it even on the draw, is it better just to ignore it and accept an eventual loss when you fail to go out on turn 3, rather than clunkying up your deck?
Some decks ran a handful of basic Forest in the SB for Krosan Grip to deal with Blood Moon effects. The only creature I really want to see added is Dragon.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
I'm also thinking about replacing 2 Sundering Titans with 2 Iona's.
It's suprisingly cheap too, with reflecting pool being the most expensive card (I think)
Anthony Lowry, Article Writer for Manashift.
Your #1 source for New York City Magic!
Twitter: @Aufam
I think its price will go up, since this is a "cheap" deck to build. So, everyone will buy.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Sundering Titan can hit the Shock Lands.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Some answers to Blood Moon, I've been testing Forest (for Ghost Quarter as well) + Grip. Or Coalition Relic out of the sb. Blood Moon hurts, especially backed by the pressure Rubin Zoo can put on you.
A few questions...
Is Baneslayer as bad as the Austin QF match shows for us?
What answers do we have as we're going off against Dark Depths + Hexmage?
I understand with the right hand we can race them with Progen + flying chump blockers...or build the deck to kill the turn it goes off. But anything we put into play with the resolution of Hypergen, their combo beats. I've thumbed through many options:
Oring/Hellkite/D.Angel/Venser/Duplicant...all of these abilities will target, and then they get the opportunity to sac Hexmage and gain a 20/20, no matter what we target.
We could save bounce in hand (Venser or Wipe Away) if we reach the stage we can save mana for it without dying.
Two ideas that have had a little more success are:
Ghost Quarters...this slows us down a little by maybe not giving us the colored mana we need for a turn 2 Plea. But still can stop the resolution of DD.
Malfegor...this has been getting the most success. With him, I can drop him with a couple of cards in hand, and when I discard, it gives my opponent the option of sacrificing either the Hexmage or resolving his combo in response and binning the token. Either way it can help against other decks with creatures...and might be able to cap a Baneslayer if they have a creature light hand. I play 1 main 1 sb..might up it if DD get's more popular.
Thoughts?