pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
Disregarding the fact there is a parfait thread already… why are you opting to play inferior creatures? If you want the weenie version it’s so easy to slap the parfait engine into death and taxes. Equipment and no stoneforge mystic seems terrible at a glance especially considering cards like jitte exist now and that only scratches the surface.
What do you want this to accomplish is the question as it seems there are better versions out there already.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
------------------- Keep Abiding or Get Mangled ------------------
First of all, I am a casual for fun player, so I don't know anything about trends or anything. I just noticed the deckbuiding conversation at some point
focusses somewhat on the equipment theme, with the plate and all !and the addition of stoneforge mystic! what i like, but if focussing more one that considering the deck and all, I just had a idea about when I used to play in Tempest era, (also remembered by the emperial armor), something like
the soltari (shadow creatures), I checked, and they seem to be legal in Legacy format. So... shadow creatures, or am I getting to old for this game? Offcourse the hawk can be a good finisher too. Anyhow, hi all (first post here on MTG Salvation), what you guys think, I'm curious. Nice hollidays,
Also, I could be wrong, but I absolutly dont like the knight of the white orchid. It gives noise with land tax, I meen, whit 4 land tax and that being a big focus of the deck, having a land tax out and playing a knight can screw up your land tax advantage (disadvantage in lands:S). I might be crazy, but I do get this right right, or is there some reason for knight of the white orchid?
shadow creatures, or am I getting to old for this game? Offcourse the hawk can be a good finisher too. Anyhow, hi all (first post here on MTG Salvation), what you guys think
I think shadow creatures were optimal in '97 but outdated in '23.
Squadron Hawk is:
-expendable card advantage (great vs black sacrifice effects)
-a shuffle for your deck (should you use Scroll Rack but Land Tax won't trigger)
-a blocker (I've had combat where blocking w/equipped Umezawa's Jitte and Batterskull happened)
is there some reason for knight of the white orchid?
-Knight of the White Orchid adds redundancy to the Land Tax effect. Common knowledge dictates that 4 copies of a card isn't consistent enough. You want 6-8 typically.
-The redundancy helps justify choosing to play second/draw first, since you mitigate the loss of tempo.
-Knight of the White Orchid can fetch dual lands, unlike Land Tax.
-I'd prefer having another creature to equip than Tithe.
-Mox Diamond helps keep your land count low.
-You can always fail to find.
@zero I can relate to when you played in tempest. Power creep has greatly increased the efficiency of creatures and spells. Parfait as deck was essentially creatureless in the beginning, and now you can have a similar deck where creatures do the parfait effects. That is a very light gloss over however.
@truth: cavern of souls beats a chalice of the void. Your responses make more sense to me now.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
------------------- Keep Abiding or Get Mangled ------------------
I guess I’m just going to accept that this will come off dickish.
Why use the parfait engine at all if you are going to ignore it with a card like knight of the wild orchid? The whole draw to the parfait engine is that you can either play “low resources” so the engine converts lands into threats, creatures usually in that case, or you play control so that white has the best card advantage engine to negate the early 1:1 plays that would be required to get to the late game.
Reading teeg helped beat a kaldra also just creates more questions as that implies that the player wasn’t playing stoneforge mystic and thus the “results” you’re giving are very skewed.
Can you explain any of that?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
------------------- Keep Abiding or Get Mangled ------------------
Why use the parfait engine at all if you are going to ignore it with a card like knight of the wild orchid? The whole draw to the parfait engine is that you can either play “low resources” so the engine converts lands into threats, creatures usually in that case, or you play control so that white has the best card advantage engine to negate the early 1:1 plays that would be required to get to the late game.
The original Buehler/Finkel lists ran Tithe to supplement Land Tax. In the original lists, Tithe was a 1 shot Tax to fuel Scroll Rack (assuming you don't play the lands you search.) I prefer Knight b/c unlike Tithe, I can equip Knight. Also as I explained to Zero1, you can always "fail to find" and it's not a big deal.
I view Knight of the White Orchid as a 2/2 first strike w/a potential upside, not an additional land slot w/a body attached.
Reading teeg helped beat a kaldra also just creates more questions as that implies that the player wasn’t playing stoneforge mystic and thus the “results” you’re giving are very skewed.
I'll be the first to admit i'm no judge if my "results" are "very skewed." My last report was the second legacy tourney I've played in years and my Death and Taxes opponent packed hate cards that weren't optimal vs me.
I prefer the Caron style parfait deck, but knight doesn’t really supplement the engine, it just shuts it off. There is a reason tithe was used. The creature plan works because it doesn’t need a lot of resources to function so the engine can maintain a constant stream of threats. I mentioned death and taxes first because white has access to efficient disruptive creatures now which only aids the engine further.
And I say skewed because of your results are based on 3 rounds, you are already 50% to top 4 going in to that tournament. It’s up there with top 8ing a seven man tournament. It’s not reflective of what actually happened.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
------------------- Keep Abiding or Get Mangled ------------------
10 Plains
4 Savannah
2 Undiscovered Paradise
(24) Spells:
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Land Tax
4 Mox Diamond
4 Path to Exile
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Empyrial Plate (credit to Pokerkingdave)
2 Scroll Rack
4 Knight of the White Orchid
4 Mother of Runes
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Sanctifier en-Vec
4 Squadron Hawk
4 Auriok Champion
4 Oust (Elves)
3 Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Gaea's Blessing
Got the idea from here:
https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Extended_Tax_Rack_deck
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkfx2kA8gok&feature=emb_logo
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3RYiZJFCK0
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j18HlKybrm8&feature=emb_logo
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiAEzfAgpbI
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vNr_4ubfMg
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJcwpxraL-g
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8MyVNLVYNw
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-M5ffoArnY
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_yQEBOPi_w&feature=emb_logo
extended - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLpUB9zpyr4&feature=emb_logo
pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
Thanks, Empyrial Plate only costs 2 to cast vs Empyrial Armor's 3. VERY essential for Land Tax!
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkfx2kA8gok&feature=emb_logo
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3RYiZJFCK0
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j18HlKybrm8&feature=emb_logo
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiAEzfAgpbI
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vNr_4ubfMg
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJcwpxraL-g
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8MyVNLVYNw
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-M5ffoArnY
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_yQEBOPi_w&feature=emb_logo
extended - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLpUB9zpyr4&feature=emb_logo
What do you want this to accomplish is the question as it seems there are better versions out there already.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
I'm brewing for *****s and giggles. If I had serious competition, I'd consider net decking. But atm, I don't need to.
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkfx2kA8gok&feature=emb_logo
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3RYiZJFCK0
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j18HlKybrm8&feature=emb_logo
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiAEzfAgpbI
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vNr_4ubfMg
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJcwpxraL-g
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8MyVNLVYNw
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-M5ffoArnY
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_yQEBOPi_w&feature=emb_logo
extended - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLpUB9zpyr4&feature=emb_logo
I literally brewed parfait when tax was unbanned to make a competitive deck. “Net Decking” just sounds like a crutch for poor decision making
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
Wow dude, idk why you have to be this annoying. Ignored.
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkfx2kA8gok&feature=emb_logo
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3RYiZJFCK0
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j18HlKybrm8&feature=emb_logo
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiAEzfAgpbI
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vNr_4ubfMg
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJcwpxraL-g
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8MyVNLVYNw
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-M5ffoArnY
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_yQEBOPi_w&feature=emb_logo
extended - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLpUB9zpyr4&feature=emb_logo
8 Plains
4 Cavern of Souls (humans)
4 Savannah
(25) Spells:
4 Land Tax
4 Mox Diamond
4 Path to Exile
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Gaea's Blessing
2 Scroll Rack
1 Batterskull (credit to WeaponX)
1 Empyrial Plate
1 Umezawa’s Jitte (credit to WeaponX)
4 Knight of the White Orchid
4 Mother of Runes
4 Squadron Hawk
4 Stoneforge Mystic (credit to WeaponX)
3 Cathar Commando
4 Oust
4 Sanctifier en-Vec
2 Auriok Champion
2 Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Cathar Commando
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkfx2kA8gok&feature=emb_logo
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3RYiZJFCK0
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j18HlKybrm8&feature=emb_logo
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiAEzfAgpbI
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vNr_4ubfMg
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJcwpxraL-g
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8MyVNLVYNw
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-M5ffoArnY
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_yQEBOPi_w&feature=emb_logo
extended - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLpUB9zpyr4&feature=emb_logo
2 Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire
3 Karakas
10 Plains
4 rishidan port
4 Wasteland
CREATURES
3 Flickerwisp
4 Mother of Runes
3 Recruiter of the Guard
4 Solitude
4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Timeless Dragon
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 enlightened tutor
OTHER SPELLS
3 aether vial
4 Land tax
1 Batterskull
1 Kaldra Compleat
2 scroll rack
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Yorion, Sky Nomad
1 Containment Priest
1 Council's Judgment
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 God-Eternal Oketra
1 Kataki, War's Wage
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Peacekeeper
1 Sanctum Prelate
2 Surgical Extraction
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
8 Plains
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Savannah
(24) spells:
4 Land Tax
4 Mox Diamond
4 Path to Exile
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Scroll Rack
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Batterskull
1 Empyrial Plate
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
4 Knight of the White Orchid
4 Mother of Runes
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Squadron Hawk
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Oust
4 Sanctifier en-Vec
3 Containment Priest
2 Choke
2 Ethersworn Canonist
Round 1 *bye*
Round 2 vs Red Chalice. 2-0.
SB: none.
Round 3 vs Black Chalice. 2-1.
Pre-match, we agreed to prize split.
SB: +4 Sanctifier en-Vec, -4 Mother of Runes.
-His sacrifice removal gets around Mother of Runes' pro: black.
-His Chalice of the Void for 1 would make Mother of Runes worthless as well.
The other 2 decks were:
-Simic Infect
-Blue Combo (didn't see much but he ran fast mana.)
In a room of 3 non-interactive decks, the 2 grindy decks made the finals. We'll see how the meta shifts next time.
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkfx2kA8gok&feature=emb_logo
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3RYiZJFCK0
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j18HlKybrm8&feature=emb_logo
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiAEzfAgpbI
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vNr_4ubfMg
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJcwpxraL-g
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8MyVNLVYNw
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-M5ffoArnY
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_yQEBOPi_w&feature=emb_logo
extended - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLpUB9zpyr4&feature=emb_logo
First of all, I am a casual for fun player, so I don't know anything about trends or anything. I just noticed the deckbuiding conversation at some point
focusses somewhat on the equipment theme, with the plate and all !and the addition of stoneforge mystic! what i like, but if focussing more one that considering the deck and all, I just had a idea about when I used to play in Tempest era, (also remembered by the emperial armor), something like
the soltari (shadow creatures), I checked, and they seem to be legal in Legacy format. So... shadow creatures, or am I getting to old for this game? Offcourse the hawk can be a good finisher too. Anyhow, hi all (first post here on MTG Salvation), what you guys think, I'm curious. Nice hollidays,
Zero 1
If playing green anyway, you could also consider something like sterling grove.
I think shadow creatures were optimal in '97 but outdated in '23.
Squadron Hawk is:
-expendable card advantage (great vs black sacrifice effects)
-a shuffle for your deck (should you use Scroll Rack but Land Tax won't trigger)
-a blocker (I've had combat where blocking w/equipped Umezawa's Jitte and Batterskull happened)
-Knight of the White Orchid adds redundancy to the Land Tax effect. Common knowledge dictates that 4 copies of a card isn't consistent enough. You want 6-8 typically.
-The redundancy helps justify choosing to play second/draw first, since you mitigate the loss of tempo.
-Knight of the White Orchid can fetch dual lands, unlike Land Tax.
-I'd prefer having another creature to equip than Tithe.
-Mox Diamond helps keep your land count low.
-You can always fail to find.
Enlightened Tutor costs 1 mana less, which is a big deal. You may not think so b/c I 'boarded out Mother of Runes for Sanctifier en-Vec but playing around Chalice of the Void is more so improvising than deck building.
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkfx2kA8gok&feature=emb_logo
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3RYiZJFCK0
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j18HlKybrm8&feature=emb_logo
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiAEzfAgpbI
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vNr_4ubfMg
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJcwpxraL-g
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8MyVNLVYNw
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-M5ffoArnY
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_yQEBOPi_w&feature=emb_logo
extended - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLpUB9zpyr4&feature=emb_logo
@truth: cavern of souls beats a chalice of the void. Your responses make more sense to me now.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
8 players, 3 rounds.
1-1-1 record. 4th place.
Decklist on moxfield.com
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/2DDpVL2gNUC78D8UC-EvOw
*Credit to Zero1. Zero1 made me realize Knight of the White Orchid has Diminishing Returns in multiples.
You want 1 Knight of the White Orchid early but only 1.
3 Knight of the White Orchid swap out w/3 Gaddock Teeg conveniently.
Round 1 vs Bant Infect. 2-1
SB: +4 Oust, +4 Spellskite. -4 Qasali Pridemage, -3 Knight of the White Orchid, 1 Cathar Commando.
-Game 1: I wasted removal on a Glistener Elf after my Mother of Runes lost summoning sickness. I died to Blighted Agent.
-Game 2: He got mana flooded.
-Game 3: He mulled to 3.
Round 2 vs Death and Taxes, 1-1-1
SB game 2: +3 Gaddock Teeg. -3 Knight of the White Orchid.
SB game 3: +3 Knight of the White Orchid, -3 Gaddock Teeg.
-I played first in game 2 and played second in game 3.
-Gaddock Teeg was good vs his Kaldra Compleat.
-We went to a time limit draw but he was about to win.
Round 3 vs Grixis Delver, 1-2
SB game 2: +4 Sanctifier en-Vec, +3 Gaddock Teeg. -4 Qusali Pridemage, -3 Knight of the White Orchid.
SB game 3: +3 Knight of the White Orchid, -3 Gaddock Teeg.
-Like in round 2, 3 Knight of the White Orchid left on the play and returned on the draw.
-Gaddock Teeg over Knight of the White Orchid vs Force of Will.
Parting Note: Sideboard was a definite improvement over 12/23/23's list, as I 'boarded in every card.
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkfx2kA8gok&feature=emb_logo
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3RYiZJFCK0
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j18HlKybrm8&feature=emb_logo
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiAEzfAgpbI
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vNr_4ubfMg
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJcwpxraL-g
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8MyVNLVYNw
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-M5ffoArnY
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_yQEBOPi_w&feature=emb_logo
extended - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLpUB9zpyr4&feature=emb_logo
Why use the parfait engine at all if you are going to ignore it with a card like knight of the wild orchid? The whole draw to the parfait engine is that you can either play “low resources” so the engine converts lands into threats, creatures usually in that case, or you play control so that white has the best card advantage engine to negate the early 1:1 plays that would be required to get to the late game.
Reading teeg helped beat a kaldra also just creates more questions as that implies that the player wasn’t playing stoneforge mystic and thus the “results” you’re giving are very skewed.
Can you explain any of that?
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
I use Knight of the White Orchid to supplement Land Tax. If I don't have an active Land Tax, I can fall back on Knight of the White Orchid to bring me up to speed. If I am lucky enough to have one of my four Mox Diamond, it's quite easy to Knight/Tax.
The original Buehler/Finkel lists ran Tithe to supplement Land Tax. In the original lists, Tithe was a 1 shot Tax to fuel Scroll Rack (assuming you don't play the lands you search.) I prefer Knight b/c unlike Tithe, I can equip Knight. Also as I explained to Zero1, you can always "fail to find" and it's not a big deal.
I view Knight of the White Orchid as a 2/2 first strike w/a potential upside, not an additional land slot w/a body attached.
Reading teeg helped beat a kaldra also just creates more questions as that implies that the player wasn’t playing stoneforge mystic and thus the “results” you’re giving are very skewed.
The Kaldra player ran Stoneforge Mystic. I just happen to run 4 Swords to Plowshares and 4 Path to Exile, forcing him to attempt to hard cast it.
I'll be the first to admit i'm no judge if my "results" are "very skewed." My last report was the second legacy tourney I've played in years and my Death and Taxes opponent packed hate cards that weren't optimal vs me.
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkfx2kA8gok&feature=emb_logo
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3RYiZJFCK0
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j18HlKybrm8&feature=emb_logo
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiAEzfAgpbI
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vNr_4ubfMg
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJcwpxraL-g
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8MyVNLVYNw
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-M5ffoArnY
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_yQEBOPi_w&feature=emb_logo
extended - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLpUB9zpyr4&feature=emb_logo
And I say skewed because of your results are based on 3 rounds, you are already 50% to top 4 going in to that tournament. It’s up there with top 8ing a seven man tournament. It’s not reflective of what actually happened.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord