I've seen a few decks trying to abuse Contamination, and the card looks very powerful to me, so I thought I'd try it out. I've found something that I like so far:
So the deck plays a ton of discard to be able to cast Bitterblossom/ Entomb --> Nether Spirit and then Contamination to just dominate from there. Diabolic Intent can search up any card for the job with the help of the recurring creatures. Further Entombs can look for Darkblasts. Jitte does what it's best at : being awesome.
I was just thinking about trying to work Contamination into Pox earlier today. Syphon Life might be better than Crippling Fatigue since you can re-use it. Liliana is awesome but not sure if you can fit her in with Contamination and its requisite engine(s). Spooky's Contamination list was running a Creakwood Liege as another piece. Someone posted an "Eon Hub" deck in budget and in the comments someone brought up Infernal Darkness which struck me as potentially interesting as additional Contaminations. Might not be good enough but I'm interested to test it.
Diabolic Intent looks like it could be a really sweet find. I've been missing the Demonic Tutors I would've used to play in these decks back when I'd never heard of banned/restricted lists!
Cabal Therapy? Possibly Cursed Scroll in case the creatures and Jitte plan doesn't work out? I'll put something together as well and test, this is fun.
I was just thinking about trying to work Contamination into Pox earlier today. Syphon Life might be better than Crippling Fatigue since you can re-use it. Liliana is awesome but not sure if you can fit her in with Contamination and its requisite engine(s). Spooky's Contamination list was running a Creakwood Liege as another piece. Someone posted an "Eon Hub" deck in budget and in the comments someone brought up Infernal Darkness which struck me as potentially interesting as additional Contaminations. Might not be good enough but I'm interested to test it.
Diabolic Intent looks like it could be a really sweet find. I've been missing the Demonic Tutors I would've used to play in these decks back when I'd never heard of banned/restricted lists!
Cabal Therapy? Possibly Cursed Scroll in case the creatures and Jitte plan doesn't work out? I'll put something together as well and test, this is fun.
I think we both saw the Contamination decks in the developping forums and have had it stuck in our minds for a while!
Syphon Life doesn't affect creatures, so it's not really useful I think.
Creakwood Liege costs more mana than Contamination, which is generally why I'm not a fan. The engines I have in my deck cost 1 and 2 mana.
as much as I would love having Phil Foglio artwork in all my decks, I think Infernal Darkness is just too much of a downgrade to be worth including. If your testing shows otherwise, let me know!
I'm not very good at Cabal Therapy lol. It would be nice to 2-for-1 the opponent, but it would also require that I have a sac engine online before I use it, which is adding another difficulty to the deck.
I really like the lifegain of Jitte. What would you take out for Cursed Scroll?
We can both test and put our findings together here! Want to post what you're trying?
Mishra's Factory is better in this deck than Mutavault since it's activation cost is the same, but it can block then pump itself whereas Mutavault is only better in the Merfolk matchup.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Decks:
Modern
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Legacy
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
I pretty much entirely forgot why I have a singleton Mutavault in there. The reason it was Mutavault, though, is because it's better than Mishra's Factory if it's a singleton (if memory serves me right, that may be why I chose it).
Looking back on the list, I think it could use some sweepers or something. I think Ensnaring Bridge could be a good fit.
@ Olystuart
Orzhov Signet? Serum Powder? Oh boy. Sorin is really expensive and unnecessary, in my opinion. You even have Enlightened tutor to search for BitterBlossom. The point of my deck was that Entomb could search for the single Nether Spirit that would trigger Contamination indefinitely. I would then have 9 cards that could create a lock with Contamination, which is enough.
I would consider splashing white and playing lingering souls. Before the lock, it offers a better chance of being able to search up with intent and after the lock, it's additional beats that never hit the graveyard( you can discard them from your hand and cast them for 1B -- smallpox or liliana might help here). If they counter/destroy your contaminate (or you dredge one with darkblast early game) and then extirpate or surgical extraction, you're probably dead (and that's not an unlikely situation). With souls in addition to faeries (or perhaps replacing a couple of faeries as souls is faster and doesn't kill you allowing you to play pox), you would still have a decent board presence and enough removal to keep the path clear.
I'd also consider replacing a jitte with a crucible of worlds so you can recur your cabal pits, wastelands and mutavault (if it's killed). Inkmoth nexus and jitte may be a faster win condition than mutavault. Additionally, I don't see how mutavault is better than mishra's factory as you can pump factory up and being an artifact isn't a huge downside if you have a lock as there aren't that many artifact specific removal spells in black and the others will probably kill either mutavault, inkmoth, or factory.
edit:
with disposable creatures, cabal therapy might be an alternative.
I would consider splashing white and playing lingering souls. Before the lock, it offers a better chance of being able to search up with intent and after the lock, it's additional beats that never hit the graveyard( you can discard them from your hand and cast them for 1B -- smallpox or liliana might help here). If they counter/destroy your contaminate (or you dredge one with darkblast early game) and then extirpate or surgical extraction, you're probably dead (and that's not an unlikely situation). With souls in addition to faeries (or perhaps replacing a couple of faeries as souls is faster and doesn't kill you allowing you to play pox), you would still have a decent board presence and enough removal to keep the path clear.
Lingering souls won't help keep the lock going more than 4 turns. I don't have any creatures stronger than 1/1, so it I have to think that I'll be going into the late game. I wouldn't replace too many Bitterblossoms with these. They would be game-winning material only, while blossoms are a solid combo piece. I was also thinking about Smallpox and Liliana of the Veil as well, maybe that's the way to go.
I'd also consider replacing a jitte with a crucible of worlds so you can recur your cabal pits, wastelands and mutavault (if it's killed). Inkmoth nexus and jitte may be a faster win condition than mutavault. Additionally, I don't see how mutavault is better than mishra's factory as you can pump factory up and being an artifact isn't a huge downside if you have a lock as there aren't that many artifact specific removal spells in black and the others will probably kill either mutavault, inkmoth, or factory.
edit:
with disposable creatures, cabal therapy might be an alternative.
Just a singleton Crucible of Worlds doesn't seem like it would be very consistent. It would be cool to recur Cabal Pits, though.
Maybe I didn't explain myself well enough last time. Mutavault is better as a singleton than Mishra's Factory because as a singleton, Factory won't be able to pump other Factories (obviously), while Mutavault can still benefit from other bonuses.
Lingering souls won't help keep the lock going more than 4 turns. I don't have any creatures stronger than 1/1, so it I have to think that I'll be going into the late game. I wouldn't replace too many Bitterblossoms with these. They would be game-winning material only, while blossoms are a solid combo piece. I was also thinking about Smallpox and Liliana of the Veil as well, maybe that's the way to go.
Just a singleton Crucible of Worlds doesn't seem like it would be very consistent. It would be cool to recur Cabal Pits, though.
Maybe I didn't explain myself well enough last time. Mutavault is better as a singleton than Mishra's Factory because as a singleton, Factory won't be able to pump other Factories (obviously), while Mutavault can still benefit from other bonuses.
With mishra's factory, you can pay 1 to activate factory and then pump at your opponents end of turn. After that, it swings for 3 instead of 2 which is better than mutavault. Additionally, you don't gain very much overall from the all creatures clause mutavault offers. I still think inkmoth nexus is potentially better since poison doesn't get countered by lifegain.
The ability to tutor for crucible makes a singleton reliable (and provides complete land denial if you replace one wasteland with one ghost quarter).
If you're going to swap for cabal therapy, change out the thoughtseize's. Bitterblossom already pings you (and you play 4), so the life loss from thoughseize is relevant. Otherwise, syphon life may be worth considering (especially with crucible).
With mishra's factory, you can pay 1 to activate factory and then pump at your opponents end of turn. After that, it swings for 3 instead of 2 which is better than mutavault. Additionally, you don't gain very much overall from the all creatures clause mutavault offers. I still think inkmoth nexus is potentially better since poison doesn't get countered by lifegain.
The ability to tutor for crucible makes a singleton reliable (and provides complete land denial if you replace one wasteland with one ghost quarter).
If you're going to swap for cabal therapy, change out the thoughtseize's. Bitterblossom already pings you (and you play 4), so the life loss from thoughseize is relevant. Otherwise, syphon life may be worth considering (especially with crucible).
?? How do you deal an extra damage with Factory, when it requires you to tap it to attack and to pump it? You attack with Mishra's factory (it's tapped), so it can't activate it's third ability that pumps because you can't pay the cost (tapping). Am I misunderstanding you? The thing with poison is that is doesn't work with any other damage I may have done beforehand. I often play Bitterblossom early and get some damage in, then play contamination and eventually the Nether Spirit to swarm them with flying creatures.
I forgot about the tutor :tongue:. I guess it does, although I'd proably be searching for pieces of the combo with it. Playing Contamination makes having a wastelock kinda pointless, since they can't play spells anyways.
I may just do that. I was banking on Jitte gaining me back much of the life I lost or just finishing the game quickly. I really don't think you can pay for Syphon Life's retrace cost with lands in graveyards, even with Crucible of Worlds. Crucible says ''you may PLAY lands from your graveyard", it says nothing about being able to discard them from your graveyard, or do anything other than put them onto the battlefield. The rules text even says you can't pay for abilities like cycling, so I'm assuming this goes for Retrace as well.
I like the Idea of the deck because I love Contamination... but whats your plan against The Gate or Pox? They are just not impressed by your lock, are there any other options? Don't get me wrong I like the deck but thats just a thought when you try to get this deck to competitive/established...
Greetings Heskatet
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Obviously, the deck is much weaker against other mono-black decks. However, the plan becomes hampering them with heavy discard and beating face with Faeries carrying Jittes that can be tutored (as well as a recurring 2/2). I also don't think that these choices are particularly popular, so crossing them is unlikely. I suppose that against those decks, a more aggressive plan can be sideboarded in. I can see Pox having a hard time with recurring threats and token production. The Gate is going to be a horrible matchup.
Obviously, the deck is much weaker against other mono-black decks. However, the plan becomes hampering them with heavy discard and beating face with Faeries carrying Jittes that can be tutored (as well as a recurring 2/2). I also don't think that these choices are particularly popular, so crossing them is unlikely. I suppose that against those decks, a more aggressive plan can be sideboarded in. I can see Pox having a hard time with recurring threats and token production. The Gate is going to be a horrible matchup.
In terms of pox, you are running an extremely similar list to the traditional mono b pox lists,only this doesn't have some of the powerhouse cards in it. They would treat it just like they would a mirror match, but you have to be wary becasue unlike pox, this deck doesn't have liliana, and ensaring bridge turns this decks plan to rubbish real quick. And an engineered plague naming fairies is going to be a real bad day for us. because contamination doesn't affect pox you are basically just running a sub-par version of pox. contamination pox used to be a thing way back when, but there's a reason its not seen to much anymore, because the current versions of pox are generally better.
In the end, I think pox will be a real bad match up for this deck, along with any deck that can function with colorless or only b mana. Its most powerful lock in this deck, but it is also one that can really suck in a decent number of matchups. It's why contamination pox doesn't see much use anymore.
EDIT: oh and even a singleton mishra's is better than mutavault here, as it can tap to give itself the boost, so it can block as a 3/3. Mutavault only helps against little green men and merpeople.
It's a dangerous business, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.
I think combo decks like Spanish Inquisition, Belcher or ANT may also get around the lock but for this you have still enough discard disruption I guess. Beating face with tokens carrying jitte or batterskull seems nice enough to me =)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
In terms of pox, you are running an extremely similar list to the traditional mono b pox lists,only this doesn't have some of the powerhouse cards in it. They would treat it just like they would a mirror match, but you have to be wary because unlike pox, this deck doesn't have liliana, and ensaring bridge turns this decks plan to rubbish real quick. And an engineered plague naming fairies is going to be a real bad day for us. because contamination doesn't affect pox you are basically just running a sub-par version of pox. contamination pox used to be a thing way back when, but there's a reason its not seen to much anymore, because the current versions of pox are generally better.
In the end, I think pox will be a real bad match up for this deck, along with any deck that can function with colorless or only b mana. Its most powerful lock in this deck, but it is also one that can really suck in a decent number of matchups. It's why contamination pox doesn't see much use anymore.
EDIT: oh and even a singleton mishra's is better than mutavault here, as it can tap to give itself the boost, so it can block as a 3/3. Mutavault only helps against little green men and merpeople.
I think the difference is the number of 1 and 2 cc discard (11!), which allows the contamination deck to pluck the really dangerous stuff from the hand preemptively. Lilliana is probably a good addition to this deck, as I mentioned in the OP. I don't see any of the winning lists running Ensnaring Bridge. How common a card is that?
How many tier 1 decks can function with only black mana? How many viable legacy decks are actually mono-black or close to it? 4-6 out of almost 50? Reanimate, Dredge, MUD, maybe Affinity, The Gate and maybe DeadGuy could possibly play through Contamination. I'm not counting the combo decks that generate mana from non-land sources or decks that can just counter it, obviously. There's no autowin against any deck.
I suppose Mishra's factory can be used to block as a 3/3, but having a huge attacker/blocker feeding on your opponent's build is pretty awesome too.
I think combo decks like Spanish Inquisition, Belcher or ANT may also get around the lock but for this you have still enough discard disruption I guess. Beating face with tokens carrying jitte or batterskull seems nice enough to me =)
Hymn to tourach is still run in a lot of pox builds. the mono black ones atleast. the BG loam pox builds are so tight on real estate in those decks that it is surprisingly one of the weakest cards in the deck. Ensanring bridge is relatively common. its usually in most lists as at least a 1-of somewhere in the 75.
And your right on what decks function with mostly black mana. I don't mean to pan the deck, heck, contamination pox used to be quite popular some time ago. I was just saying that it is one of the main weaknesses of the deck and it can cause some real inconsistencies in tourneys sometimes.
liliana is a great addition to the deck, if you can get her she's great.
As for cards o consider to help the decks weak points:
urborg, tomb of yawgmoth - not a huge deal here, but 1 or 2 copies could help smooth out the mana base. not necessary, but they do improve the deck a little, making mana easier and making cabal pits not hurt as much.
ratchet bomb - again a sideboard card, but helps deal with some problematic stuff black can't normally hit. (Artifacts and enchantments mostly)
syphon life/raven's crime - usually seen as 1-ofs, but you would be surprised how much mileage you can get out of them. its really nice for late game when all those land top decks are actually useful. you'll notice most pox lists run 1 crime and with good reason. Can also be gotten through entomb.
dakmor salvage - works well if your using the above cards. gives you a recursive engine for the retrace stuff, and tutor-able with entomb.
I'm not sold on darkblast. It's ok because its recursive, but after using it in my pox deck over the years I found it just really lack luster. at only -1/-1 it can never seem to kill the things you really need dead.
EDIT: oh and don't forget good ol bojuka bog. free graveyard hate that is uncounterable, and gets to stick around as a land to boot. 2 is usually a good number.
It's a dangerous business, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.
Some pox decks skip Hymn because they don't want the dead draw late in the grindy matchup and they prefer to stuff their deck with threats, answers, or tech.
Hymn to tourach is still run in a lot of pox builds. the mono black ones atleast. the BG loam pox builds are so tight on real estate in those decks that it is surprisingly one of the weakest cards in the deck. Ensanring bridge is relatively common. its usually in most lists as at least a 1-of somewhere in the 75.
And your right on what decks function with mostly black mana. I don't mean to pan the deck, heck, contamination pox used to be quite popular some time ago. I was just saying that it is one of the main weaknesses of the deck and it can cause some real inconsistencies in tourneys sometimes.
liliana is a great addition to the deck, if you can get her she's great.
As for cards o consider to help the decks weak points:
urborg, tomb of yawgmoth - not a huge deal here, but 1 or 2 copies could help smooth out the mana base. not necessary, but they do improve the deck a little, making mana easier and making cabal pits not hurt as much.
ratchet bomb - again a sideboard card, but helps deal with some problematic stuff black can't normally hit. (Artifacts and enchantments mostly)
syphon life/raven's crime - usually seen as 1-ofs, but you would be surprised how much mileage you can get out of them. its really nice for late game when all those land top decks are actually useful. you'll notice most pox lists run 1 crime and with good reason. Can also be gotten through entomb.
dakmor salvage - works well if your using the above cards. gives you a recursive engine for the retrace stuff, and tutor-able with entomb.
I'm not sold on darkblast. It's ok because its recursive, but after using it in my pox deck over the years I found it just really lack luster. at only -1/-1 it can never seem to kill the things you really need dead.
EDIT: oh and don't forget good ol bojuka bog. free graveyard hate that is uncounterable, and gets to stick around as a land to boot. 2 is usually a good number.
Wow, those are really awesome suggestions! Seriously, thank you! :thumbsup::thumbsup:
I'll definitely make some space for Liliana of the Veil and a Syphon Life. Urborg seems like overkill, but hey, why not?
I like all the sideboard advice, it will give me lots of ideas later!
Honestly, I'm not sold on Darkblast either. I was desperately looking for ways to make my Entombs not be dead draws once I have Nether Spirit out already. Syphon Life will really help with that, but I feel like having recurring and tutorable removal is a powerful. I think I'll just cut it down to a 1-of.
But wait a minute... why play contamination when you have like nether void to lock them down harrrrd?
Yes contamination doesnt lock you out but nether void wont either if your prepared for it.
Ive done some thinking and came up with this list:
is it any good? I figured a lot of one off that can be tutored for, kinda liked the transmute artifact idea of late that sort of went this route.
Also: do you know infernal darkness?
I always felt like it was a 2BB timewalk instead of 1U
Card and deck tags are awesome. They really, really are.
First of all, I just have to say I chuckled at the fact that the guy from the Netherlands mentions Nether Void.
I think a big reason why I wouldn't play this is that I don't want to invest that much cash into something so niche. It's the same as Moat. It's awesome, but it's more rare than it is awesome, so the price just doesn't justify it's actual usefulness in magic in general. Moat is played in like 2 legacy decks, and yet it costs more than Force of Will and Jace, the Mind Sculptor. Nether Void fits in like 1 deck, and it's often just skipped over anyways.
I'm liking the tutors and the Ensnaring Bridge, as well as Liliana. Looks like a good mix. I'm sure a BW version might be very good.
I did not remember what Infernal Darkness was and has to look it up. I really don't think we need a worse version of Contamination in the deck, especially if there are tutors involved.
Iinfernal darkness doesnt need another card to stick around for a few turns. If your opponent isnt able to cast for 2-4 turns isnt this abusable enough? For the right deck? At least it buys time to set up the real hard lock right...Right???
Infernal darkness isnt terrible, but the fact that it east up more life and east up or own mana make it hard to make it last more than the first 2 upkeeps wih it. contamination my have to use up anohter card with it to be good, but the mana and life saved is a big deal. also it is 1 mana cheaper, meaning it can come down earlier. But more importantly, the deck has more than enough ways to get the contamination lock so we really just don't need extra copies.
It's a dangerous business, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.
I'm going to keep on this Chalice shell idea for now, it's pretty fun to play. I like the Serum Powder because this deck mulligans a lot looking for a potential turn 2 lock or otherwise explosive start. It's still clunky with a number of dead cards in various situations but I'm just trying out different angles. Any ideas/advice?
Well like I said I was testing some things out. Beckon Apparition was a dumb idea, nevermind. The signet gives you access to W while under contamination as well as a turn 1 ramp option with a Sol land. Perhaps there's a better mana rock for it (one of the Moxen?) but signets are in other Chalice shell decks so I went with it. Cutting E. Tutor and max-ing Idyllic tutor is smart and cleans it up a bit. I was just thinking of the E. Tutor sideboard, but it just doesn't go with the deck and I should stick to enchantments so I don't get stuck under Chalice. Liliana I just threw in there so see if it was useful, but I took it back out later. As for Swords, Body and Mind is a tutor-able token generator (might not be necessary), and for the other I needed something to side in against black decks. Thanks for the thoughts, I don't test constructed a lot but I'll keep testing it over time because I like the deck.
On Serum Powder, I know 1-ofs are usually included to be tutored for but also 1-ofs are far more likely to be in your opening hand than to be drawn into statistically. I learned this from the "Why 1-of Thunderous Wrath is bad" in Burn discussion. Risking drawing a dead card now and then seems worth it in this deck because I'm trying to max out turn 1 and 2 hard locks against non-black decks. Probably just an amateur deckbuilding move but it seems logical to me.
If you look at the Stax Primer, you'll see all sorts of reasons why using Idyllic Tutor is better than Enlightened Tutor. I'll sum it up in two points:
1. It puts it directly into your hand. No card disadvantage.
2. It costs three mana, which allows you to play Chalice of the Void without worrying about dead cards in hand or to be drawn later in the game.
The fact that it doesn't fetch artifacts is not so important here, as the things he wants to fetch are almost exclusively enchantments. The only other artifacts worth fetching other than Chalice are equipment, which Stoneforge Mystic takes care of already.
Agreed. I made those changes in the above list based on the feedback.
Changes: Liliana out, E. Tutor out, Idyllic Tutor up to 4, Dark Ritual up to 4, Land section shuffled a bit. Ideally I'd put 4 Scrubland in but my budget makes the current land choices more realistic with 1 Scrubland, Fetches, and Gemstone Mines. Gemstone Mine I added because I mostly need the mana flexibility in the first 3 turns until I'm set up and if I need it longer than that, Urborg helps. That makes it a better budget Scrubland than Godless Shrine here I think, though I still want 1 in case I want to Fetch it. I may put in two basics for 2 Urborg if Wasteland & Co. proves too problematic with this manabase.
Taking out Enlightened Tutor and its targets from the sideboard leaves some open SB slots I'm not sure what to fill with. I could put the 2 basic lands here. Current Idyllic Tutor board: Humility, Rest in Peace, Oblivion Ring, Seal of Cleansing. Could be other utility enchantments, could be cards to side in against black decks, could be anti-storm cards or Leyline of Sanctity. Any ideas/opinions?
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
1 Nether Spirit
Enchantments (8)
4 Bitterblossom
4 Contamination
Artifacts (2)
2 Umezawa's Jitte
Sorceries (17)
4 Innocent Blood
4 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Diabolic Intent
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
2 Darkblast
Lands (22)
15 Swamp
2 Cabal Pit
4 Wasteland
1 Mutavault
So the deck plays a ton of discard to be able to cast Bitterblossom/ Entomb --> Nether Spirit and then Contamination to just dominate from there. Diabolic Intent can search up any card for the job with the help of the recurring creatures. Further Entombs can look for Darkblasts. Jitte does what it's best at : being awesome.
I was thinking of including Liliana of the Veil, and to a lesser extent Crippling Fatigue, which can hit more creatures and be fetched with Entomb as well.
Any thoughts? Pointers?
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
Diabolic Intent looks like it could be a really sweet find. I've been missing the Demonic Tutors I would've used to play in these decks back when I'd never heard of banned/restricted lists!
Cabal Therapy? Possibly Cursed Scroll in case the creatures and Jitte plan doesn't work out? I'll put something together as well and test, this is fun.
I think we both saw the Contamination decks in the developping forums and have had it stuck in our minds for a while!
Syphon Life doesn't affect creatures, so it's not really useful I think.
Creakwood Liege costs more mana than Contamination, which is generally why I'm not a fan. The engines I have in my deck cost 1 and 2 mana.
as much as I would love having Phil Foglio artwork in all my decks, I think Infernal Darkness is just too much of a downgrade to be worth including. If your testing shows otherwise, let me know!
I'm not very good at Cabal Therapy lol. It would be nice to 2-for-1 the opponent, but it would also require that I have a sac engine online before I use it, which is adding another difficulty to the deck.
I really like the lifegain of Jitte. What would you take out for Cursed Scroll?
We can both test and put our findings together here! Want to post what you're trying?
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
3 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Scrubland
3 Crystal Vein
5 Swamp
4 Godless Shrine
1 Teysa, Orzhov Scion
2 Ornithopter
Other Spells:
4 Bitterblossom
4 Contamination
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 The Abyss
3 Chrome Mox
2 Enlightened Tutor
4 Orzhov Signet
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Lotus Petal
1 Batterskull
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Serum Powder
2 Damnation
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Vindicate
4 Silence
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Enlightened Tutor
It's janky because it's a very rough draft but I'll post again after testing and evolving.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Looking back on the list, I think it could use some sweepers or something. I think Ensnaring Bridge could be a good fit.
@ Olystuart
Orzhov Signet? Serum Powder? Oh boy. Sorin is really expensive and unnecessary, in my opinion. You even have Enlightened tutor to search for BitterBlossom. The point of my deck was that Entomb could search for the single Nether Spirit that would trigger Contamination indefinitely. I would then have 9 cards that could create a lock with Contamination, which is enough.
Your list could use Humility, I think.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
I'd also consider replacing a jitte with a crucible of worlds so you can recur your cabal pits, wastelands and mutavault (if it's killed). Inkmoth nexus and jitte may be a faster win condition than mutavault. Additionally, I don't see how mutavault is better than mishra's factory as you can pump factory up and being an artifact isn't a huge downside if you have a lock as there aren't that many artifact specific removal spells in black and the others will probably kill either mutavault, inkmoth, or factory.
edit:
with disposable creatures, cabal therapy might be an alternative.
Lingering souls won't help keep the lock going more than 4 turns. I don't have any creatures stronger than 1/1, so it I have to think that I'll be going into the late game. I wouldn't replace too many Bitterblossoms with these. They would be game-winning material only, while blossoms are a solid combo piece. I was also thinking about Smallpox and Liliana of the Veil as well, maybe that's the way to go.
Just a singleton Crucible of Worlds doesn't seem like it would be very consistent. It would be cool to recur Cabal Pits, though.
Maybe I didn't explain myself well enough last time. Mutavault is better as a singleton than Mishra's Factory because as a singleton, Factory won't be able to pump other Factories (obviously), while Mutavault can still benefit from other bonuses.
Cabal Therapy is a great idea, thanks!
Using card tags is good.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
With mishra's factory, you can pay 1 to activate factory and then pump at your opponents end of turn. After that, it swings for 3 instead of 2 which is better than mutavault. Additionally, you don't gain very much overall from the all creatures clause mutavault offers. I still think inkmoth nexus is potentially better since poison doesn't get countered by lifegain.
The ability to tutor for crucible makes a singleton reliable (and provides complete land denial if you replace one wasteland with one ghost quarter).
If you're going to swap for cabal therapy, change out the thoughtseize's. Bitterblossom already pings you (and you play 4), so the life loss from thoughseize is relevant. Otherwise, syphon life may be worth considering (especially with crucible).
?? How do you deal an extra damage with Factory, when it requires you to tap it to attack and to pump it? You attack with Mishra's factory (it's tapped), so it can't activate it's third ability that pumps because you can't pay the cost (tapping). Am I misunderstanding you? The thing with poison is that is doesn't work with any other damage I may have done beforehand. I often play Bitterblossom early and get some damage in, then play contamination and eventually the Nether Spirit to swarm them with flying creatures.
I forgot about the tutor :tongue:. I guess it does, although I'd proably be searching for pieces of the combo with it. Playing Contamination makes having a wastelock kinda pointless, since they can't play spells anyways.
I may just do that. I was banking on Jitte gaining me back much of the life I lost or just finishing the game quickly. I really don't think you can pay for Syphon Life's retrace cost with lands in graveyards, even with Crucible of Worlds. Crucible says ''you may PLAY lands from your graveyard", it says nothing about being able to discard them from your graveyard, or do anything other than put them onto the battlefield. The rules text even says you can't pay for abilities like cycling, so I'm assuming this goes for Retrace as well.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
Greetings Heskatet
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
In terms of pox, you are running an extremely similar list to the traditional mono b pox lists,only this doesn't have some of the powerhouse cards in it. They would treat it just like they would a mirror match, but you have to be wary becasue unlike pox, this deck doesn't have liliana, and ensaring bridge turns this decks plan to rubbish real quick. And an engineered plague naming fairies is going to be a real bad day for us. because contamination doesn't affect pox you are basically just running a sub-par version of pox. contamination pox used to be a thing way back when, but there's a reason its not seen to much anymore, because the current versions of pox are generally better.
In the end, I think pox will be a real bad match up for this deck, along with any deck that can function with colorless or only b mana. Its most powerful lock in this deck, but it is also one that can really suck in a decent number of matchups. It's why contamination pox doesn't see much use anymore.
EDIT: oh and even a singleton mishra's is better than mutavault here, as it can tap to give itself the boost, so it can block as a 3/3. Mutavault only helps against little green men and merpeople.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
I think the difference is the number of 1 and 2 cc discard (11!), which allows the contamination deck to pluck the really dangerous stuff from the hand preemptively. Lilliana is probably a good addition to this deck, as I mentioned in the OP. I don't see any of the winning lists running Ensnaring Bridge. How common a card is that?
Why don't more Pox decks run Hymn to Tourach?
How many tier 1 decks can function with only black mana? How many viable legacy decks are actually mono-black or close to it? 4-6 out of almost 50? Reanimate, Dredge, MUD, maybe Affinity, The Gate and maybe DeadGuy could possibly play through Contamination. I'm not counting the combo decks that generate mana from non-land sources or decks that can just counter it, obviously. There's no autowin against any deck.
I suppose Mishra's factory can be used to block as a 3/3, but having a huge attacker/blocker feeding on your opponent's build is pretty awesome too.
Heavy discard is a nightmare for them, I imagine.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
And your right on what decks function with mostly black mana. I don't mean to pan the deck, heck, contamination pox used to be quite popular some time ago. I was just saying that it is one of the main weaknesses of the deck and it can cause some real inconsistencies in tourneys sometimes.
liliana is a great addition to the deck, if you can get her she's great.
As for cards o consider to help the decks weak points:
urborg, tomb of yawgmoth - not a huge deal here, but 1 or 2 copies could help smooth out the mana base. not necessary, but they do improve the deck a little, making mana easier and making cabal pits not hurt as much.
surgical extraction/extirpate - good sideboard stuff that can hurt combo decks, and really does a number on dredge.
ratchet bomb - again a sideboard card, but helps deal with some problematic stuff black can't normally hit. (Artifacts and enchantments mostly)
syphon life/raven's crime - usually seen as 1-ofs, but you would be surprised how much mileage you can get out of them. its really nice for late game when all those land top decks are actually useful. you'll notice most pox lists run 1 crime and with good reason. Can also be gotten through entomb.
dakmor salvage - works well if your using the above cards. gives you a recursive engine for the retrace stuff, and tutor-able with entomb.
I'm not sold on darkblast. It's ok because its recursive, but after using it in my pox deck over the years I found it just really lack luster. at only -1/-1 it can never seem to kill the things you really need dead.
EDIT: oh and don't forget good ol bojuka bog. free graveyard hate that is uncounterable, and gets to stick around as a land to boot. 2 is usually a good number.
Some pox decks skip Hymn because they don't want the dead draw late in the grindy matchup and they prefer to stuff their deck with threats, answers, or tech.
Wow, those are really awesome suggestions! Seriously, thank you! :thumbsup::thumbsup:
I'll definitely make some space for Liliana of the Veil and a Syphon Life. Urborg seems like overkill, but hey, why not?
I like all the sideboard advice, it will give me lots of ideas later!
Honestly, I'm not sold on Darkblast either. I was desperately looking for ways to make my Entombs not be dead draws once I have Nether Spirit out already. Syphon Life will really help with that, but I feel like having recurring and tutorable removal is a powerful. I think I'll just cut it down to a 1-of.
Card and deck tags are awesome. They really, really are.
First of all, I just have to say I chuckled at the fact that the guy from the Netherlands mentions Nether Void.
I think a big reason why I wouldn't play this is that I don't want to invest that much cash into something so niche. It's the same as Moat. It's awesome, but it's more rare than it is awesome, so the price just doesn't justify it's actual usefulness in magic in general. Moat is played in like 2 legacy decks, and yet it costs more than Force of Will and Jace, the Mind Sculptor. Nether Void fits in like 1 deck, and it's often just skipped over anyways.
I'm liking the tutors and the Ensnaring Bridge, as well as Liliana. Looks like a good mix. I'm sure a BW version might be very good.
I did not remember what Infernal Darkness was and has to look it up. I really don't think we need a worse version of Contamination in the deck, especially if there are tutors involved.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
Infernal darkness isnt terrible, but the fact that it east up more life and east up or own mana make it hard to make it last more than the first 2 upkeeps wih it. contamination my have to use up anohter card with it to be good, but the mana and life saved is a big deal. also it is 1 mana cheaper, meaning it can come down earlier. But more importantly, the deck has more than enough ways to get the contamination lock so we really just don't need extra copies.
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Bitterblossom
4 Contamination
3 Chalice of the Void
4 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
4 Orzhov Signet
3 Lotus Petal
1 Batterskull
2 Diabolic Intent
1 Serum Powder
1 Damnation
4 Dark Ritual
1 Sword of Body and Mind
4 Idyllic Tutor
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Scrubland
4 Gemstone Mine
2 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Rest in Peace
1 Damnation
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Vindicate
4 Silence
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Humility
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Teysa, Orzhov Scion
I'm going to keep on this Chalice shell idea for now, it's pretty fun to play. I like the Serum Powder because this deck mulligans a lot looking for a potential turn 2 lock or otherwise explosive start. It's still clunky with a number of dead cards in various situations but I'm just trying out different angles. Any ideas/advice?
Crystal Vein also seems rather weak. You'd probably do better just maxing out the City of Traitors and adding other lands.
Singleton Serum Powder is going to be a dead draw quite often, and running more tutors should help with that.
What's with Beckon Apparition?
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
On Serum Powder, I know 1-ofs are usually included to be tutored for but also 1-ofs are far more likely to be in your opening hand than to be drawn into statistically. I learned this from the "Why 1-of Thunderous Wrath is bad" in Burn discussion. Risking drawing a dead card now and then seems worth it in this deck because I'm trying to max out turn 1 and 2 hard locks against non-black decks. Probably just an amateur deckbuilding move but it seems logical to me.
1. It puts it directly into your hand. No card disadvantage.
2. It costs three mana, which allows you to play Chalice of the Void without worrying about dead cards in hand or to be drawn later in the game.
The fact that it doesn't fetch artifacts is not so important here, as the things he wants to fetch are almost exclusively enchantments. The only other artifacts worth fetching other than Chalice are equipment, which Stoneforge Mystic takes care of already.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
Changes: Liliana out, E. Tutor out, Idyllic Tutor up to 4, Dark Ritual up to 4, Land section shuffled a bit. Ideally I'd put 4 Scrubland in but my budget makes the current land choices more realistic with 1 Scrubland, Fetches, and Gemstone Mines. Gemstone Mine I added because I mostly need the mana flexibility in the first 3 turns until I'm set up and if I need it longer than that, Urborg helps. That makes it a better budget Scrubland than Godless Shrine here I think, though I still want 1 in case I want to Fetch it. I may put in two basics for 2 Urborg if Wasteland & Co. proves too problematic with this manabase.
Taking out Enlightened Tutor and its targets from the sideboard leaves some open SB slots I'm not sure what to fill with. I could put the 2 basic lands here. Current Idyllic Tutor board: Humility, Rest in Peace, Oblivion Ring, Seal of Cleansing. Could be other utility enchantments, could be cards to side in against black decks, could be anti-storm cards or Leyline of Sanctity. Any ideas/opinions?
Bitterblossom and DP might be too suicidal, but I like the idea of it.