I come up with a lot of deck ideas and most of them suck but I think I may be onto something here. I know this deck isn't entirely original and has a lot of aspects of a stompy deck or Big Red from Standard. I am aware of the Sneak and Breach deck and I am not trying to redo that archetype. That deck is more combo-ish while my deck just plays nasty things early. I haven't played it extensively (yet) but have tested it against the following archetypes, and crushed them: UWR Delver, RUG Delver, Reanimator, Elves, MUD. I find that the deck gets its power by repeatedly casting must-answer threats. Even if the opponent has an answer for one or two, they tend to run out of answers and then they lose.
I feel like the main deck is nearly perfect but the sideboard might need some tweaking of the numbers.
Explanations (cards not explained are ones I feel are self-explanatory):
I. Titan and W. Engine - fatties that just win the game against any deck not playing Swords to Plowshares. Playing a turn 2-3 Titan is ridiculous and most people just scoop.
Koth and Chandra - Koth can be a turn 1-2 threat that ends the game. Chandra is there mostly to deal with large fatties and could maybe be another Chaos Warp.
Chaos Warp - incredibly good answer-all. The low amount of dangerous permanents in most Legacy decks means that this will almost always turn a Tiger into a kitten.
Trip Noose - I also considered Tumble Magnet in this spot but like the high likelihood of casting it turn 1. Once this is active, fattie decks (Reanimator, Sneak and Show) are simply dead. I didn't have another good way to reliably deal with Emrakul and Griselbrand. It won me the match against reanimator but needs more testing.
Other notes:
1. I started out wanting a deck that played 4 Koth, Inferno Titan, Chalice of the Void and Blood Moon and went from there.
2. The deck is reasonably cheap once you have the City of Traitors.
It seems to me that you are taking AiR (all in red) and dragon stompy style lists and mixing them together. As a result, you may want to look into some traditionally played AiR cards. Deus of Calamity comes to mind. Also, Burning wish seems amazing here.
Wow! I really like Crystal Ball for this deck. I might have to pick up some just to fuel other chalice decks I'm trying to build. Good catch!
I also like the Chaos Warp. As much as it doesn't seem original at first glance; I don't think I've seen it in stompy; and red stompy is certainly the best fit for it given it's mana cost (2 colorless, 1R)
I may build a version of this now given that I've been looking to fit koth/inferno into a deck. I think I'm going to be trying Flametongue Kavu, and switching a few numbers.
Again, it's nothing crazy innovative; but I *really* like the crystal and the warp. Good additions.
I do like crystal ball in some formats, but not legacy. If you are going to play that effect, you will want sensei's divining top. It is by far the strongest card you can play in that slot that isn't blue.
I do like crystal ball in some formats, but not legacy. If you are going to play that effect, you will want sensei's divining top. It is by far the strongest card you can play in that slot that isn't blue.
The problem with Top in these decks is that they typically don't need fetchlands, and Top is significantly weaker without a shuffle effect. Ball can at least scry away the garbage.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
It seems to me that you are taking AiR (all in red) and dragon stompy style lists and mixing them together. As a result, you may want to look into some traditionally played AiR cards. Deus of Calamity comes to mind. Also, Burning wish seems amazing here.
Burning wish does seem really good and should probably replace some number of sweepers. Any suggestions for sideboard cards to use under burning wish? Deus is maybe a little too red-heavy for this deck. I frequently have a lot of colorless mana but I'll pay more attention during games to see if I'd be able to cast it reliably.
Wow! I really like Crystal Ball for this deck. I might have to pick up some just to fuel other chalice decks I'm trying to build. Good catch!
I also like the Chaos Warp. As much as it doesn't seem original at first glance; I don't think I've seen it in stompy; and red stompy is certainly the best fit for it given it's mana cost (2 colorless, 1R)
I may build a version of this now given that I've been looking to fit koth/inferno into a deck. I think I'm going to be trying Flametongue Kavu, and switching a few numbers.
Again, it's nothing crazy innovative; but I *really* like the crystal and the warp. Good additions.
Chaos Warp has been amazingly good. It deals with nearly everything (I only use it on must-answer threats) and usually gives them nothing or a land.
I do like crystal ball in some formats, but not legacy. If you are going to play that effect, you will want sensei's divining top. It is by far the strongest card you can play in that slot that isn't blue.
I am certainly a seasoned enough eternal player to be well aware of the power and existence of Sensei's Divining Top. I DID NOT forget about it. However, in this deck I have no fetches (nor do I really want or need them) and I play 4 Chalice of the Void that I would like to play for 1 on turn 1...thus making all Tops I would draw useless. Crystal Ball is superior in this deck.
I will say that the local big red player (sneak version) uses fetches (and I like Magma jet in here too; but I like it anywhere :P.)
It took me awhile to accept fetches in mono-color, but while it's of marginal percentile benefit and opens you up to stifle and a few tiny bits, it still IS of benefit to up those percentages a tiny bit; probably more so in a deck with so many dead draws.
This will sound pretty janky; but Grinning Ignus could replace Seeting Song as another beater. Since you're not going Sneak and you're fatties max at 6 mana; he can get you to 6 mana T3. In casual I've used him as a good Inferno Titan ramp (when the cards align just right ;).) Maybe I'll throw something together for this weekend and put my jank to use!
I am certainly a seasoned enough eternal player to be well aware of the power and existence of Sensei's Divining Top. I DID NOT forget about it. However, in this deck I have no fetches (nor do I really want or need them) and I play 4 Chalice of the Void that I would like to play for 1 on turn 1...thus making all Tops I would draw useless. Crystal Ball is superior in this deck.
I understand what you are saying. I meant no disrespect, though I don't know your meta. Mine is completely saturated with abrupt decay, making chalice of the void nearly useless. The primary reason that I would run sdt over crystal ball, even though after a turn or two you are stuck with semi useless chaff, is that it is next to impossible to kill whereas chalice of the void and crystal ball both are relatively easy targets for such a thing.
I will admit that your choices otherwise seem quite solid vs. the matches you've listed. How does it do vs. rock archetypes?
The thing about Decay though; is that it has double duty dealing with both Blood Moon (which they have to hold mana open for) and the decks can't really handle the manascrew from it.
We're still only talking about a single deckslot here anyway. Something he sees once in 5-7 games is unlikely to be terribly influential anyway.
To the list: I'm unsure why you run so many sweepers. 4 MB, 2 SB. I guess it's nice to see 2-3 each game if you're stabilizing, but I feel like you have removal on the titan anyway and see him just as often. If it's not 2-toughness, you could consider cycling Slice and Dice; while being perfectly able to hardcast it later without killing your own guys anyway.
The cycling is gravy for most tribals and non-DRS creatures; while late game the only guys living from Slice are Goyf/Tombstalker; of which Goyf you can eat with any true fat, and Stalker could be taken care of by any 2-damage card + titan and is easy for the deck to race.
Furthermore, I'd consider downgrading from Wurm to BSkull (but only consider; not recommending.) The reasoning is:
-5 mana is the sweet spot due to Song. T2 Skull is easy where as T2 Wurm costs you another card
-Skull can upgrade Titan or a mountain if the germ dies, while being easy to reset and playing both offence and defense.
I will say that the local big red player (sneak version) uses fetches (and I like Magma jet in here too; but I like it anywhere :P.)
It took me awhile to accept fetches in mono-color, but while it's of marginal percentile benefit and opens you up to stifle and a few tiny bits, it still IS of benefit to up those percentages a tiny bit; probably more so in a deck with so many dead draws.
This will sound pretty janky; but Grinning Ignus could replace Seeting Song as another beater. Since you're not going Sneak and you're fatties max at 6 mana; he can get you to 6 mana T3. In casual I've used him as a good Inferno Titan ramp (when the cards align just right ;).) Maybe I'll throw something together for this weekend and put my jank to use!
I feel that it has been pretty solidly established that you should only use fetches in a mono-colored deck if you want shuffle effects or you want cards in your graveyard. I already have ancient tombs and the life loss is not completely insignificant. "Thinning" the deck is so minimal that it is not worth running fetches. It isn't for budget concerns either, I have all 40 fetches.
I understand what you are saying. I meant no disrespect, though I don't know your meta. Mine is completely saturated with abrupt decay, making chalice of the void nearly useless. The primary reason that I would run sdt over crystal ball, even though after a turn or two you are stuck with semi useless chaff, is that it is next to impossible to kill whereas chalice of the void and crystal ball both are relatively easy targets for such a thing.
I will admit that your choices otherwise seem quite solid vs. the matches you've listed. How does it do vs. rock archetypes?
I haven't played against one but I have 4 maindeck Blood Moon that I can usually cast turn 1 or 2. That is their primary concern, not Chalice (which is only ok against them anyway) and certainly not Crystal Ball.
The thing about Decay though; is that it has double duty dealing with both Blood Moon (which they have to hold mana open for) and the decks can't really handle the manascrew from it.
We're still only talking about a single deckslot here anyway. Something he sees once in 5-7 games is unlikely to be terribly influential anyway.
To the list: I'm unsure why you run so many sweepers. 4 MB, 2 SB. I guess it's nice to see 2-3 each game if you're stabilizing, but I feel like you have removal on the titan anyway and see him just as often. If it's not 2-toughness, you could consider cycling Slice and Dice; while being perfectly able to hardcast it later without killing your own guys anyway.
The cycling is gravy for most tribals and non-DRS creatures; while late game the only guys living from Slice are Goyf/Tombstalker; of which Goyf you can eat with any true fat, and Stalker could be taken care of by any 2-damage card + titan and is easy for the deck to race.
Furthermore, I'd consider downgrading from Wurm to BSkull (but only consider; not recommending.) The reasoning is:
-5 mana is the sweet spot due to Song. T2 Skull is easy where as T2 Wurm costs you another card
-Skull can upgrade Titan or a mountain if the germ dies, while being easy to reset and playing both offence and defense.
I will probably be reducing sweepers for some Burning Wish as mentioned earlier. Batterskull is a great suggestion! I only own one but will switch a Wurmcoil out for it.
With all of the mana producing cards, I am frequently low on cards or empty handed. I am considering some Reforge the Soul. It could be seriously insane, especially if Miracled.
In terms of Burning Wish, I am having a tough time thinking about what I want. I would mostly get a sweeper, which is what I am replacing with it. I guess Reforge would be a decent card for the sideboard for it, any others? Shattering Spree? I don't know, I am starting to think Burning Wish isn't worth it.
I honestly don't know that I would consider reforge the soul. Yes, it is a possible wish target, but to really consider what you would be going after, as you say, is the reason to do it.
I don't know that you would want to use reforge the soul in a deck like this. I worry that it would be bad because giving your opponent a new hand can be a bad thing in a deck trying to disrupt long enough to connect with a bigger threat. Have you considered the new chandra as an option? yes, I know she isn't as good for removing creatures though she can get you past them and her 0 ability will get you cards, essentially.
I honestly don't know that I would consider reforge the soul. Yes, it is a possible wish target, but to really consider what you would be going after, as you say, is the reason to do it.
I don't know that you would want to use reforge the soul in a deck like this. I worry that it would be bad because giving your opponent a new hand can be a bad thing in a deck trying to disrupt long enough to connect with a bigger threat. Have you considered the new chandra as an option? yes, I know she isn't as good for removing creatures though she can get you past them and her 0 ability will get you cards, essentially.
I definitely did consider her because I think she's great. I might try her out. The reason I considered Reforge (which has been pretty good in testing) is that I frequently have a bunch of mana and no cards. It typically increases my hand size by 6-7 and my opponents by 1-3 and they are drawing dead cards against Chalice or Blood Moon.
I think that maybe i played you on cockatrice with my mud stompy last week. Think it was a draw, however the titan was very impressive and got me off guard!
If i were you id consider bonfire of the damned as a board sweeper u got the mana and itll help agaist merfolk, elves, goblin..
I did play a MUD stompy on Cockatrice a week or so ago. It was my first match with the deck. I was laughing when my opponent played Chalice turn 1. It might not have been me, however, because I won that match 2-1.
What is your name on Cockatrice? Mine is the same as here.
Ok, the decklist:
4 Inferno Titan
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Batterskull
Planeswalkers (5)
4 Koth of the Hammer
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
Permanents (10)
1 Crystal Ball
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Trinisphere
Answers (7)
2 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Slagstorm
3 Chaos Warp
2 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Lotus Petal
3 Seething Song
Land (20)
8 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Sandstone Needle
3 Defense Grid
3 REB
3 Trinisphere
1 Pyroclasm
1 Slagstorm
2 Trip Noose
2 Grafdigger's Cage
I feel like the main deck is nearly perfect but the sideboard might need some tweaking of the numbers.
Explanations (cards not explained are ones I feel are self-explanatory):
I. Titan and W. Engine - fatties that just win the game against any deck not playing Swords to Plowshares. Playing a turn 2-3 Titan is ridiculous and most people just scoop.
Koth and Chandra - Koth can be a turn 1-2 threat that ends the game. Chandra is there mostly to deal with large fatties and could maybe be another Chaos Warp.
Chaos Warp - incredibly good answer-all. The low amount of dangerous permanents in most Legacy decks means that this will almost always turn a Tiger into a kitten.
Trip Noose - I also considered Tumble Magnet in this spot but like the high likelihood of casting it turn 1. Once this is active, fattie decks (Reanimator, Sneak and Show) are simply dead. I didn't have another good way to reliably deal with Emrakul and Griselbrand. It won me the match against reanimator but needs more testing.
Other notes:
1. I started out wanting a deck that played 4 Koth, Inferno Titan, Chalice of the Void and Blood Moon and went from there.
2. The deck is reasonably cheap once you have the City of Traitors.
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
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I also like the Chaos Warp. As much as it doesn't seem original at first glance; I don't think I've seen it in stompy; and red stompy is certainly the best fit for it given it's mana cost (2 colorless, 1R)
I may build a version of this now given that I've been looking to fit koth/inferno into a deck. I think I'm going to be trying Flametongue Kavu, and switching a few numbers.
Again, it's nothing crazy innovative; but I *really* like the crystal and the warp. Good additions.
Look, Fetch, Draw, Look
Draw
Fetch
Look
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
The problem with Top in these decks is that they typically don't need fetchlands, and Top is significantly weaker without a shuffle effect. Ball can at least scry away the garbage.
Burning wish does seem really good and should probably replace some number of sweepers. Any suggestions for sideboard cards to use under burning wish? Deus is maybe a little too red-heavy for this deck. I frequently have a lot of colorless mana but I'll pay more attention during games to see if I'd be able to cast it reliably.
Chaos Warp has been amazingly good. It deals with nearly everything (I only use it on must-answer threats) and usually gives them nothing or a land.
I am certainly a seasoned enough eternal player to be well aware of the power and existence of Sensei's Divining Top. I DID NOT forget about it. However, in this deck I have no fetches (nor do I really want or need them) and I play 4 Chalice of the Void that I would like to play for 1 on turn 1...thus making all Tops I would draw useless. Crystal Ball is superior in this deck.
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
It took me awhile to accept fetches in mono-color, but while it's of marginal percentile benefit and opens you up to stifle and a few tiny bits, it still IS of benefit to up those percentages a tiny bit; probably more so in a deck with so many dead draws.
This will sound pretty janky; but Grinning Ignus could replace Seeting Song as another beater. Since you're not going Sneak and you're fatties max at 6 mana; he can get you to 6 mana T3. In casual I've used him as a good Inferno Titan ramp (when the cards align just right ;).) Maybe I'll throw something together for this weekend and put my jank to use!
Look, Fetch, Draw, Look
Draw
Fetch
Look
I understand what you are saying. I meant no disrespect, though I don't know your meta. Mine is completely saturated with abrupt decay, making chalice of the void nearly useless. The primary reason that I would run sdt over crystal ball, even though after a turn or two you are stuck with semi useless chaff, is that it is next to impossible to kill whereas chalice of the void and crystal ball both are relatively easy targets for such a thing.
I will admit that your choices otherwise seem quite solid vs. the matches you've listed. How does it do vs. rock archetypes?
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
We're still only talking about a single deckslot here anyway. Something he sees once in 5-7 games is unlikely to be terribly influential anyway.
To the list: I'm unsure why you run so many sweepers. 4 MB, 2 SB. I guess it's nice to see 2-3 each game if you're stabilizing, but I feel like you have removal on the titan anyway and see him just as often. If it's not 2-toughness, you could consider cycling Slice and Dice; while being perfectly able to hardcast it later without killing your own guys anyway.
The cycling is gravy for most tribals and non-DRS creatures; while late game the only guys living from Slice are Goyf/Tombstalker; of which Goyf you can eat with any true fat, and Stalker could be taken care of by any 2-damage card + titan and is easy for the deck to race.
Furthermore, I'd consider downgrading from Wurm to BSkull (but only consider; not recommending.) The reasoning is:
-5 mana is the sweet spot due to Song. T2 Skull is easy where as T2 Wurm costs you another card
-Skull can upgrade Titan or a mountain if the germ dies, while being easy to reset and playing both offence and defense.
Look, Fetch, Draw, Look
Draw
Fetch
Look
I feel that it has been pretty solidly established that you should only use fetches in a mono-colored deck if you want shuffle effects or you want cards in your graveyard. I already have ancient tombs and the life loss is not completely insignificant. "Thinning" the deck is so minimal that it is not worth running fetches. It isn't for budget concerns either, I have all 40 fetches.
I haven't played against one but I have 4 maindeck Blood Moon that I can usually cast turn 1 or 2. That is their primary concern, not Chalice (which is only ok against them anyway) and certainly not Crystal Ball.
I will probably be reducing sweepers for some Burning Wish as mentioned earlier. Batterskull is a great suggestion! I only own one but will switch a Wurmcoil out for it.
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
In terms of Burning Wish, I am having a tough time thinking about what I want. I would mostly get a sweeper, which is what I am replacing with it. I guess Reforge would be a decent card for the sideboard for it, any others? Shattering Spree? I don't know, I am starting to think Burning Wish isn't worth it.
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
I don't know that you would want to use reforge the soul in a deck like this. I worry that it would be bad because giving your opponent a new hand can be a bad thing in a deck trying to disrupt long enough to connect with a bigger threat. Have you considered the new chandra as an option? yes, I know she isn't as good for removing creatures though she can get you past them and her 0 ability will get you cards, essentially.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
I definitely did consider her because I think she's great. I might try her out. The reason I considered Reforge (which has been pretty good in testing) is that I frequently have a bunch of mana and no cards. It typically increases my hand size by 6-7 and my opponents by 1-3 and they are drawing dead cards against Chalice or Blood Moon.
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
I did play a MUD stompy on Cockatrice a week or so ago. It was my first match with the deck. I was laughing when my opponent played Chalice turn 1. It might not have been me, however, because I won that match 2-1.
What is your name on Cockatrice? Mine is the same as here.
Bonfire is an excellent suggestion!
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener