Now I want to preface this, so I don't get yelled at, by saying that I do not disagree with Bush in principle on this. In fact, I would like naturalized citizens to be allowed to be President of the United States. However:
Currently serving as Secretary of Labor for Bush is Elaine Chao and Secretary of Commerce is Carlos Gutierrez. Both are naturalized citizens, who came from other countries and were obviously not born in the US. I have no problem with such a person being president. It's one of the reasons I like Ahnuld, that he supports amending the Constitution to allow such a person to become president. However, the Constitution currently reads:
Quote from Article II, Section I »
No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
In Case of the Removal of the President from Office, or of his Death, Resignation, or Inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of the said Office, the Same shall devolve on the Vice President, and the Congress may by Law provide for the Case of Removal, Death, Resignation or Inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what Officer shall then act as President, and such Officer shall act accordingly, until the Disability be removed, or a President shall be elected.
In other words, you currently have to be a natural born citizen to be president, but neither of these two are. 3 U.S.C. § 19(e) concurs. I don't think that much of the line of succession is going to die while Bush is in office, but they have already altered the Designated survivor policy after 9-11 to include Congressional members to ensure stability, should we have Cabinet members who have uncertain abilities to serve as Acting President in the case of a disaster?
should we have Cabinet members who have uncertain abilities to serve as Acting President in the case of a disaster?
Selection of Cabinet members is the sole prerogative of the President. What's the harm in having a contingency plan in place that includes them, in the event (God forbid) that the President and VP (and whomever else in the government) is killed? I don't see the relevance of your title (about being naturalized), since you could have Cabinet members with uncertain abilities who have been born in the US as well. It all depends on who the President chooses.
I also question your supposition that Cabinet members have "uncertain" abilities. That may well be the case, but I think you are clouding the issue with the fact that these members haven't been elected. You could say that anyone not elected in the White House could have "uncertain" abilities (GOP or Democrat alike). We just have to trust that the President chooses people in these positions that could handle the responsibility, if the tragic occurs. Hopefully, this won't have to be tested (ever).
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When I said uncertain ability I was not referring to their individual capabilities to handle the trials and tribulations of being president, but to their actual legal ability to hold the office. Presidential succession should be an absolute, something clearly held true by both parties even moreso after 9-11 with the changes to designated survivor. Do we really need to add onto the things that could go wrong with such a horrific event the confusion of "Can this secretary be president, or does it have to pass to so-and-so?" The entire point of a line of succession is to avoid such a problem.
But the thing is, I don't think it is actually Unconstitutional. The Constitution does not require natural born citizenship to the Secretary of Commerce or anything, but it is a logically drawn line that since they can ascend to the presidency and they need natural born citizenship to do so they should probably have it. I still say the best fix would be removing the requirement for natural born citizenship, but still.
The real question is: will anybody care if this situation happens? <_< I dont think that this is a very strong issue with people, and I dont think someone would get denied the presidency after a massacre for this reason.
The naturalized-citizen thing always seemed to me to be rather undemocratic. We are, after all, the nation of immigrants. We should allow any citizen over the age of 35 (another undemocratic notion, but hey, that's not the issue under debate) to run for President.
As far as succession goes, I agree with Aurora. If enough of the people in line to the Presidency die so that the Secretary of Labor takes office, people will probably not care if she happened to have been born on the wrong side of the Pacific Ocean.
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If enough of the people in line to the Presidency die so that the Secretary of Labor takes office, people will probably not care if she happened to have been born on the wrong side of the Pacific Ocean.
It's just the sort of thing those dirty liberals would make a fuss about. They hate our nation enough anyway.
I'm hesitant to allow naturalized citizens to become President.
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Be no more afraid of your voice now,
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It's just the sort of thing those dirty liberals would make a fuss about. They hate our nation enough anyway.
I'm hesitant to allow naturalized citizens to become President.
Liberals are a clean people, and they have been ever since they first came to our country from France.
Why the second, exactly? It's not as if it's an easy process, any immigrant who can manage to get elected probably has the credentials for it.
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Quote from ljossberir »
Prizm is the key to the greatness of the US!
Quote from Phyrexian »
If hefner was a rich, gay, playboy and had hot steamy sex with hot guys would you choose him? Of course not, mainly because im a straight male and find that stuff gross.
Stand by my side should I fight
Strengthen my steel should I falter
Smite my back should I flee
Save my soul should I fall
Official Recovering World of Warcraft Addict of The Ivory Tower
Liberals are a clean people, and they have been ever since they first came to our country from France.
Why the second, exactly? It's not as if it's an easy process, any immigrant who can manage to get elected probably has the credentials for it.
Racism, I suppose.
Either that, or I have concerns over whether they would be as effective as a purely native leader in waging war against certain countries. The same could probably be said about first-generation immigrant families, but to a lesser extent.
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Sing lustily and with good courage.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
When I said uncertain ability I was not referring to their individual capabilities to handle the trials and tribulations of being president, but to their actual legal ability to hold the office. Presidential succession should be an absolute, something clearly held true by both parties even moreso after 9-11 with the changes to designated survivor. Do we really need to add onto the things that could go wrong with such a horrific event the confusion of "Can this secretary be president, or does it have to pass to so-and-so?" The entire point of a line of succession is to avoid such a problem.
Sorry about that, I misunderstood what you meant. Thanks for clearing it up for me.
As far as legal ability, I would like to think that the Founding Fathers were well aware of this possibility, and didn't think it was an important enough issue to address directly in the Constitution. I think that if it got down that far as to who is President, we will be in big trouble anyways, so it wouldn't be a big issue.
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Truth is my mission, and Logic and Reason are my weapons. - Rush Limbaugh
I would think in the event of a tragedy, it shouldn't matter where a person was born as long as they can do their duties as President. However, the odds of something like that happening are astronomical.
Either that, or I have concerns over whether they would be as effective as a purely native leader in waging war against certain countries. The same could probably be said about first-generation immigrant families, but to a lesser extent.
Ah, I see. Yes, I suppose that could be a legitimate concern. I don't suppose Arnold Schwarzenegger would be particularly forceful in any future war with Austria.
Not that he'd need to be, really.
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Quote from ljossberir »
Prizm is the key to the greatness of the US!
Quote from Phyrexian »
If hefner was a rich, gay, playboy and had hot steamy sex with hot guys would you choose him? Of course not, mainly because im a straight male and find that stuff gross.
Stand by my side should I fight
Strengthen my steel should I falter
Smite my back should I flee
Save my soul should I fall
Official Recovering World of Warcraft Addict of The Ivory Tower
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Currently serving as Secretary of Labor for Bush is Elaine Chao and Secretary of Commerce is Carlos Gutierrez. Both are naturalized citizens, who came from other countries and were obviously not born in the US. I have no problem with such a person being president. It's one of the reasons I like Ahnuld, that he supports amending the Constitution to allow such a person to become president. However, the Constitution currently reads:
In other words, you currently have to be a natural born citizen to be president, but neither of these two are. 3 U.S.C. § 19(e) concurs. I don't think that much of the line of succession is going to die while Bush is in office, but they have already altered the Designated survivor policy after 9-11 to include Congressional members to ensure stability, should we have Cabinet members who have uncertain abilities to serve as Acting President in the case of a disaster?
I also question your supposition that Cabinet members have "uncertain" abilities. That may well be the case, but I think you are clouding the issue with the fact that these members haven't been elected. You could say that anyone not elected in the White House could have "uncertain" abilities (GOP or Democrat alike). We just have to trust that the President chooses people in these positions that could handle the responsibility, if the tragic occurs. Hopefully, this won't have to be tested (ever).
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As far as succession goes, I agree with Aurora. If enough of the people in line to the Presidency die so that the Secretary of Labor takes office, people will probably not care if she happened to have been born on the wrong side of the Pacific Ocean.
Strengthen my steel should I falter
Smite my back should I flee
Save my soul should I fall
Official Recovering World of Warcraft Addict of The Ivory Tower
It's just the sort of thing those dirty liberals would make a fuss about. They hate our nation enough anyway.
I'm hesitant to allow naturalized citizens to become President.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
Liberals are a clean people, and they have been ever since they first came to our country from France.
Why the second, exactly? It's not as if it's an easy process, any immigrant who can manage to get elected probably has the credentials for it.
Strengthen my steel should I falter
Smite my back should I flee
Save my soul should I fall
Official Recovering World of Warcraft Addict of The Ivory Tower
Racism, I suppose.
Either that, or I have concerns over whether they would be as effective as a purely native leader in waging war against certain countries. The same could probably be said about first-generation immigrant families, but to a lesser extent.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
As far as legal ability, I would like to think that the Founding Fathers were well aware of this possibility, and didn't think it was an important enough issue to address directly in the Constitution. I think that if it got down that far as to who is President, we will be in big trouble anyways, so it wouldn't be a big issue.
Trade with me - over 130 refs!!
However, the odds of something like that happening are astronomical.
Ah, I see. Yes, I suppose that could be a legitimate concern. I don't suppose Arnold Schwarzenegger would be particularly forceful in any future war with Austria.
Not that he'd need to be, really.
Strengthen my steel should I falter
Smite my back should I flee
Save my soul should I fall
Official Recovering World of Warcraft Addict of The Ivory Tower