Parents often find themselves in a tough position around the holidays. The public puts out all those symbols of holidays, around this time of year that includes Santa. My question is should we lie about Santa? Is it better to tell the truth?
I figure if your child asks you whether he is real or not, you should just tell them. Its probably a sign that they are old enough to not be fooled by such things. But I don't have kids (at least to my knowledge), so I am not sure how easy the decision would be as a parent to "ruin" the magic.
As for me, I figured out Santa wasn't real around the age of 4 or 5. I kept quiet about my realization to other kids too =x
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You're obviously an ignorant conservative. I blame your hill-billy Mom and Dad.
My family has never had the Santa issue (we're Jewish) but the Tooth Fairy is fine territory. My earliest memories of being aware of the Tooth Fairy are after I knew it wasn't real, so I really have no idea about the topic. If the kids ask, tell them the truth, though.
Parents often find themselves in a tough position around the holidays. The public puts out all those symbols of holidays, around this time of year that includes Santa. My question is should we lie about Santa? Is it better to tell the truth?
I don't see the point in the whole Santa myth. What purpose does it serve? I'd rather teach my children that Christmas is a time of celebrating family and, perhaps, success; that you can afford to celebrate your family by exchanging gifts. The whole idea of Santa sends kids mixed messages: what of those children who don't get many gifts, due to family trouble? Does Santa not love them? Have they been naughty? Too messy.
On principle, lying is usually wrong. I don't think this is an exception.
Quote from WarEmblem »
I refuse to believe the debate forum has come to this.
Go rent Polar Express for the kids, and utilize the Fox News route. We (Parents) report (show DVD), and you (children) decide. Excluding the hokey moral lessons at the end of the film, it is a pretty good movie, and does a nice job addressing/dodging the old Santa Clause issue.
I refuse to believe the debate forum has come to this.
Why is this not a valid topic? This is simply the debate forum, whether the subject we debate about is trivial or not, it is still debatable. If you chose not to debate on the issue then that is your own choice.
I would like the propagation of the Santa myth to stop. It is not beneficial.
I agree. It gives no good moral grounding. And it is just parents lying through their teeth, real good example to set for children.
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"It was probably a lowsy spell in the first place." -Ertai, wizer adept
"The duel was going badly for me and Zur thought I was finished. He boasted that he would eat my soul--but all he ate were his words." -Gustha Ebbasdotter
And, what is more (at least to me), it instills children with a deep and cynical suspicion of any spiritual/moral truths their parents might attempt to impart.
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I don't recall my parents ever telling me about Santa. I read books, and deduced from them that it was a convenient bedtime story, entertaining but fanciful. I think I was around 4 when I started reading these books.
We did not have TV in the house, so that may have been a factor in my equanimity towards the story.
It's very important for kids to learn that gift giving is reciprocal, even from a very early age. I was old enough at 4 to understand that I was gong to get Christmas presents, and was expected to do something nice in return for Mommy and Daddy, like sit nicely through a service or help pick out a card for someone in the family.
I think it really depends on what kind of relationship you have with your child. If trust isn't the order of the day between you, perhaps its a good idea to avoid Mr. Claus.
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Quote from hybrid life »
The war is for oil..its one of the ways to make this huge operation worthwhile. People care more about lower gas prices than iraqis anyway.
What others say about me:
Quote from JayC »
You're obviously an ignorant conservative. I blame your hill-billy Mom and Dad.
Parents often find themselves in a tough position around the holidays. The public puts out all those symbols of holidays, around this time of year that includes Santa. My question is should we lie about Santa? Is it better to tell the truth?
Don't lie to your kids about Santa. I was always let in on the idea that it was in fact an elaborite fiction and came to realise the truth early: "It's weird that parents tell there kids elaborite fictions".
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I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause!
Famliy Guy Emperor Says,
"Something, something something, DARK SIDE!
Something, something, something COMPLETE!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHiUitciuJ8
:symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw: SPIKE GAYMER: not just a beatdown, a beatdown sung to the tune of "I Feel Pretty"!
I couldn't imagine telling my children that Santa Claus isn't real. Honestly, by the time they're old enough to understand the concept of Santa not being real, they figure it out on their own.
Saying 'you should just tell them the truth if they ask you' doesn't work, because your kids will hear it from other kids that are older than them, and ask you about it. Believing in Santa is part of being a kid..you shouldn't deny your kids that. It's fun, and harmless. When I finally realized that Santa wasn't real, I asked my mom why she didn't just tell me a long time ago. She said 'Would you really have wanted me to?' To which I obviously answered 'No'...believing in Santa is part of the big fun of christmas for children, because children are too young to understand the deeper, more mature concepts of it. Life already forces kids to grow up too quickly, there's no reason to help it along.
Saying 'you should just tell them the truth if they ask you' doesn't work, because your kids will hear it from other kids that are older than them, and ask you about it. Believing in Santa is part of being a kid..you shouldn't deny your kids that. It's fun, and harmless. When I finally realized that Santa wasn't real, I asked my mom why she didn't just tell me a long time ago. She said 'Would you really have wanted me to?' To which I obviously answered 'No'...believing in Santa is part of the big fun of christmas for children, because children are too young to understand the deeper, more mature concepts of it. Life already forces kids to grow up too quickly, there's no reason to help it along.
But what purpose does it serve? What's wrong with telling your kids that the gifts they're getting come from you?
Nothing is wrong w/ that, the problem is debunking a myth that all other kids believe in at the age that your kids do. When children are young(the age that my daughters are, for example), the last thing that you want to do is alienate them from other children.
Think about it this way: You are 6 years old. You know that Santa Claus isn't real. Other kids still believe in him. You either A)have to keep this to yourself and feel like an outcast or B)try to tell them, get ridiculed, and everyone thinks you are weird/stupid/a liar/all of the previously listed, and you actually become an outcast.
Santa is a great marketing device. The image says to everyone who sees it. Christmas is coming: only X days to buy large amounts of things that no one really wants. Removing Santa may destroy the mass sales appeal of Christmas.
children will remember you lied to them, should you ever find out. that is when you're going to be in trouble.
Pretty sure my parents never got "in trouble" when, over time, I realized that Santa Claus wasn't real.
I think these "they'll think you're liars!" arguments are really silly. I mean, each one of us was a child at one time. I don't think any of us thought our parents were horrible people for telling us about Santa Claus, if they did.
That said, I think it's fine to perpetuate the myth, as long as you don't go through great lengths to convince. Under such a system, the child will figure it out for themselves, and realize that this is just a kind of Christmas ritual that many parents and kids go through. I certainly consider it as such, in retrospect.
The danger is when the family is theistic. The last thing you want to do is have your children thinking that God is just another Santa Claus. In that case, I think it's best to make it obvious that Santa Claus is an imaginary ritual; a "let's pretend" game to do for fun every Christmas.
I completely agree with Extremestan. Saying that your kids will consider you a liar or won't trust you because of Santa Claus is ridiculous. Do any of YOU feel that way about your parents because of Santa? I highly doubt it. Also, how would you have felt if you were 5 and knew that Santa wasn't real, but, all of the other kids got to enjoy the Santa Claus experience?
Saying 'you should just tell them the truth if they ask you' doesn't work, because your kids will hear it from other kids that are older than them, and ask you about it. Believing in Santa is part of being a kid..you shouldn't deny your kids that. It's fun, and harmless. When I finally realized that Santa wasn't real, I asked my mom why she didn't just tell me a long time ago. She said 'Would you really have wanted me to?' To which I obviously answered 'No'...believing in Santa is part of the big fun of christmas for children, because children are too young to understand the deeper, more mature concepts of it. Life already forces kids to grow up too quickly, there's no reason to help it along.
Best...post...EVAR!!!!111oneone
Cyan is 200% correct here. I have just gone through this with my son (he just turned 10), and I can speak from experience. He suspected from a classmate who found out earlier, but he never asked me point-blank. It just came up when I was getting him ready for bed on St. Nick's night, and he blurted out that he thought we were the ones giving the gifts, and that St. Nick (and Santa) were imaginary. He was not upset or disappointed that I lied to him. In fact, he seemed excited that he knew a "secret" (he has a younger sister who still believes), and that he feels like a "grown-up".
When I asked my son why he didn't ask me sooner about Santa, he told me he didn't really want to know back then, so that reinforces Cyan's statement that kids want to believe in Santa because it's fun.
Bottom line is that this is a fun tradition for kids, and I believe it shouldn't be denied to them. It also serves the purpose of giving the child a sense of maturity when they find out, and that, to me, is part of the process of growing up. Definitely necessary, and widely experienced, since many children go through this process.
Quote from Furor »
And, what is more (at least to me), it instills children with a deep and cynical suspicion of any spiritual/moral truths their parents might attempt to impart.
Ok, I respect you for your debating skills and general knowledge, Furor, but this is total crap. 5-10 years olds don't even know what a spiritual/moral truth is, let alone develop a suspicion of one.
All the kids I know are not concerned with these truths at all; they are more concerned with getting presents, and being accepted by their peers and classmates. And the kids I know (through my children) are from a Catholic school, so your claim should be more evident there, no?
Additionally (and I admit I'm strawmanning here), since when is a suspicion/cynicism of spiritual/moral truths a bad thing? From what I read on these boards, people harbor these types of suspicions all the time, and are commended for their original thinking! So, if you ban the whole idea of Santa, aren't you really taking away an avenue for original thought? Again, I'm strawmanning here, but you see my point.
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Truth is my mission, and Logic and Reason are my weapons. - Rush Limbaugh
I say tell them the truth, there is a Santa Claus.
Some of you say that telling your kids there is one would do them harm, I say it does more harm to tell them there isn't one. So Santa doesn't exist but God does? Why one and not the other? What proof do you have for both? A person who grows up not beliving in anything grows up to belive in nothing.
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first turn
Nick: I lay a swamp, tap, dark ritual...
Me: If you cast a hypnotic specter I'll punch you in the face
Nick:...ahh I take 3 points of mana burn
The reason I play black according to CrovaxtheCursed:
I couldn't imagine telling my children that Santa Claus isn't real. Honestly, by the time they're old enough to understand the concept of Santa not being real, they figure it out on their own.
Saying 'you should just tell them the truth if they ask you' doesn't work, because your kids will hear it from other kids that are older than them, and ask you about it. Believing in Santa is part of being a kid..you shouldn't deny your kids that. It's fun, and harmless. When I finally realized that Santa wasn't real, I asked my mom why she didn't just tell me a long time ago. She said 'Would you really have wanted me to?' To which I obviously answered 'No'...believing in Santa is part of the big fun of christmas for children, because children are too young to understand the deeper, more mature concepts of it. Life already forces kids to grow up too quickly, there's no reason to help it along
I couldn't agree more Cyan. Children should be able to have fun with the whole idea, and be reallllly excited for Christmas. After all, if kids are good, Santa will bring them toys. It's a good way for parents to teach kids to have some manners and be nice in general. Kids should know of santa and be able to have fun with the idea.
My mom did the whole santa thing, and still to this day, writes "from Santa" on my presents. I love it. When I found out santa wasn't real, I couldn't care less. I was also felt good that I knew a "secret". If I could go back to being a kid, I wouldn't want to know that santa didn't exist. It would break my heart. It makes Christmas that much more enjoyable, and makes it that much better.
Ok, I respect you for your debating skills and general knowledge, Furor, but this is total crap. 5-10 years olds don't even know what a spiritual/moral truth is, let alone develop a suspicion of one.
I didn't say it would be 5-10 year olds feeling this way. I am saying that 15-20 years olds will feel this way. And they do. They'll just look at everything as being part of the Santa Claus pattern. "They lied about Santa to make me be good, they must have been lying about the other stuff too; look at how similar it is! OMG I BROKE THE THEISTIC FORMAT!!!11"
Are you telling me that you have never noticed the propensity for cynical teenaged atheists to make the God/Santa Claus comparison? Why do you think they do this? Is it just a coincidence?
All the kids I know are not concerned with these truths at all; they are more concerned with getting presents, and being accepted by their peers and classmates. And the kids I know (through my children) are from a Catholic school, so your claim should be more evident there, no?
You go to school with five year-olds?
Additionally (and I admit I'm strawmanning here), since when is a suspicion/cynicism of spiritual/moral truths a bad thing? From what I read on these boards, people harbor these types of suspicions all the time, and are commended for their original thinking! So, if you ban the whole idea of Santa, aren't you really taking away an avenue for original thought? Again, I'm strawmanning here, but you see my point.
I see the satiric value of your comment, and find it hilarious. Well done, sir.
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Then loom'd his streaming majesty From out that wine-dark fog, And spake he unto all our crew: "Go forth, and read my blog."
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As for me, I figured out Santa wasn't real around the age of 4 or 5. I kept quiet about my realization to other kids too =x
What others say about me:
Sven Dostei
Unofficial Official arrogant teenage elitist of The Ivory Tower
My family has never had the Santa issue (we're Jewish) but the Tooth Fairy is fine territory. My earliest memories of being aware of the Tooth Fairy are after I knew it wasn't real, so I really have no idea about the topic. If the kids ask, tell them the truth, though.
On principle, lying is usually wrong. I don't think this is an exception. Quoted for truthery
Why is this not a valid topic? This is simply the debate forum, whether the subject we debate about is trivial or not, it is still debatable. If you chose not to debate on the issue then that is your own choice.
From out that wine-dark fog,
And spake he unto all our crew:
"Go forth, and read my blog."
I agree. It gives no good moral grounding. And it is just parents lying through their teeth, real good example to set for children.
"Your attack has been rendered quite harmless, it is however, quite pretty." -Saprazzan vizier
"It was probably a lowsy spell in the first place." -Ertai, wizer adept
"The duel was going badly for me and Zur thought I was finished. He boasted that he would eat my soul--but all he ate were his words." -Gustha Ebbasdotter
From out that wine-dark fog,
And spake he unto all our crew:
"Go forth, and read my blog."
We did not have TV in the house, so that may have been a factor in my equanimity towards the story.
It's very important for kids to learn that gift giving is reciprocal, even from a very early age. I was old enough at 4 to understand that I was gong to get Christmas presents, and was expected to do something nice in return for Mommy and Daddy, like sit nicely through a service or help pick out a card for someone in the family.
Yeah, kill Santa and drive over the Easter Bunny. Wait, I think that was on the billboard of the Fairbanks Bible Baptist Church.
Ahhh.... those Bible Baptists are so maligned for thier beliefs. (those links can't be real!)
What others say about me:
Sven Dostei
Unofficial Official arrogant teenage elitist of The Ivory Tower
The links aren't real. Landover is a satirical site.
From out that wine-dark fog,
And spake he unto all our crew:
"Go forth, and read my blog."
Don't lie to your kids about Santa. I was always let in on the idea that it was in fact an elaborite fiction and came to realise the truth early: "It's weird that parents tell there kids elaborite fictions".
Famliy Guy Emperor Says,
"Something, something something, DARK SIDE!
Something, something, something COMPLETE!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHiUitciuJ8
:symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw:
SPIKE GAYMER: not just a beatdown, a beatdown sung to the tune of "I Feel Pretty"!
Saying 'you should just tell them the truth if they ask you' doesn't work, because your kids will hear it from other kids that are older than them, and ask you about it. Believing in Santa is part of being a kid..you shouldn't deny your kids that. It's fun, and harmless. When I finally realized that Santa wasn't real, I asked my mom why she didn't just tell me a long time ago. She said 'Would you really have wanted me to?' To which I obviously answered 'No'...believing in Santa is part of the big fun of christmas for children, because children are too young to understand the deeper, more mature concepts of it. Life already forces kids to grow up too quickly, there's no reason to help it along.
Think about it this way: You are 6 years old. You know that Santa Claus isn't real. Other kids still believe in him. You either A)have to keep this to yourself and feel like an outcast or B)try to tell them, get ridiculed, and everyone thinks you are weird/stupid/a liar/all of the previously listed, and you actually become an outcast.
Pretty sure my parents never got "in trouble" when, over time, I realized that Santa Claus wasn't real.
I think these "they'll think you're liars!" arguments are really silly. I mean, each one of us was a child at one time. I don't think any of us thought our parents were horrible people for telling us about Santa Claus, if they did.
That said, I think it's fine to perpetuate the myth, as long as you don't go through great lengths to convince. Under such a system, the child will figure it out for themselves, and realize that this is just a kind of Christmas ritual that many parents and kids go through. I certainly consider it as such, in retrospect.
The danger is when the family is theistic. The last thing you want to do is have your children thinking that God is just another Santa Claus. In that case, I think it's best to make it obvious that Santa Claus is an imaginary ritual; a "let's pretend" game to do for fun every Christmas.
Cyan is 200% correct here. I have just gone through this with my son (he just turned 10), and I can speak from experience. He suspected from a classmate who found out earlier, but he never asked me point-blank. It just came up when I was getting him ready for bed on St. Nick's night, and he blurted out that he thought we were the ones giving the gifts, and that St. Nick (and Santa) were imaginary. He was not upset or disappointed that I lied to him. In fact, he seemed excited that he knew a "secret" (he has a younger sister who still believes), and that he feels like a "grown-up".
When I asked my son why he didn't ask me sooner about Santa, he told me he didn't really want to know back then, so that reinforces Cyan's statement that kids want to believe in Santa because it's fun.
Bottom line is that this is a fun tradition for kids, and I believe it shouldn't be denied to them. It also serves the purpose of giving the child a sense of maturity when they find out, and that, to me, is part of the process of growing up. Definitely necessary, and widely experienced, since many children go through this process.
Ok, I respect you for your debating skills and general knowledge, Furor, but this is total crap. 5-10 years olds don't even know what a spiritual/moral truth is, let alone develop a suspicion of one.
All the kids I know are not concerned with these truths at all; they are more concerned with getting presents, and being accepted by their peers and classmates. And the kids I know (through my children) are from a Catholic school, so your claim should be more evident there, no?
Additionally (and I admit I'm strawmanning here), since when is a suspicion/cynicism of spiritual/moral truths a bad thing? From what I read on these boards, people harbor these types of suspicions all the time, and are commended for their original thinking! So, if you ban the whole idea of Santa, aren't you really taking away an avenue for original thought? Again, I'm strawmanning here, but you see my point.
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Some of you say that telling your kids there is one would do them harm, I say it does more harm to tell them there isn't one. So Santa doesn't exist but God does? Why one and not the other? What proof do you have for both? A person who grows up not beliving in anything grows up to belive in nothing.
Nick: I lay a swamp, tap, dark ritual...
Me: If you cast a hypnotic specter I'll punch you in the face
Nick:...ahh I take 3 points of mana burn
The reason I play black according to CrovaxtheCursed:
I couldn't agree more Cyan. Children should be able to have fun with the whole idea, and be reallllly excited for Christmas. After all, if kids are good, Santa will bring them toys. It's a good way for parents to teach kids to have some manners and be nice in general. Kids should know of santa and be able to have fun with the idea.
My mom did the whole santa thing, and still to this day, writes "from Santa" on my presents. I love it. When I found out santa wasn't real, I couldn't care less. I was also felt good that I knew a "secret". If I could go back to being a kid, I wouldn't want to know that santa didn't exist. It would break my heart. It makes Christmas that much more enjoyable, and makes it that much better.
Are you telling me that you have never noticed the propensity for cynical teenaged atheists to make the God/Santa Claus comparison? Why do you think they do this? Is it just a coincidence?
You go to school with five year-olds?
I see the satiric value of your comment, and find it hilarious. Well done, sir.
From out that wine-dark fog,
And spake he unto all our crew:
"Go forth, and read my blog."