Hi, I like to make custom set so I play with my play group so we can play some crazy internal for fun limited. This is my third custom set and this time i feel i should ask for help !
I plan on making a single large set and a average size expansion. The draft will be two boosters of the first set and one booster of the second. I'm doing this mostly because I enjoy XXY drafts the most and my group too. Also, a XYZ draft is quite challenging to design and XXX drafts gets stale after a while.
* First, it is a tribal set akin to Onslaught and Lorwyn. The set will try to explore the mechanics (both in limited and in gameplay) of playing with multiple creatures of the same type.
* Second, it is a multicolor block. I will explore the design golden and hybrid cards inside a tribal context. The first set will focus on two color cards (allies and enemies, like RTR) but the decks are meant to be draft in two or three colors. Due the large amount of class/tribes I will add a lot of hybrid and monocolor with off-color abilities compared to gold card sets. A 10 gold card set cannot work very well because the themes would be diluted. I need overlap and synergy between different classes as well.
* Third, the tribes will be classes (not races). This contributes with a top-down feeling in the whole set. I want the set to have a secondary 'adventure' subtheme and classes will contribute to that.
* Mixing the three element above this set have multiple tribes that are creature classes and each class is defined by a two color combination. In the expansion there will be hybrid classes or interaction between two or more classes.
The first step in making this set is defining the association between classes and colors. The point in this thread is to ask suggestion for this. Bold classes are 'defined' and will likely not change, not bold classes are not defined and '?' means i have no idea !
Advisor Cleric Rogue Wizard
Mercenary
?
Shaman or Berserker
Soldier or Knight Archer Scout
I settle with Advisors as they ended up being quite important for the lore of the set.
The tribe is a hard dillema. I feel shaman is the one that suits it better, but I feel like shamans are a primary R thing. Druids is another option but the lack of mono black druids bothers me a little. Assassin is another nice option but the lack of green assassin also annoys me.
I'm this close to settle in shamans (as shamans allows for more diverse and less used themes). The overlap between druid and shaman might be something i should avoid, so i will probably go with Assassins.
Finnaly, what's you guys opnion about warrior ? The tribe will certainly be a 'armsmen' but I'm divided between Knights, Soldiers and Warriors. Nomad could be another option.
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
I would go with Shaman for (B/G), Warriors for (R/G), and soldier for (R/W)
I think warriors are indeed the most natural option for :symrg:. Since this is a top-down design, I'm afraid the Warriors will explore too much the themes already explored by the Gruul guild in the ravnican blocks. Also, I think warriors will be harder to differentiate from Mercenaries then Shamans.
I think warriors are indeed the most natural option for :symrg:.
Then use it. Seriously, don't psyche yourself out of what feels natural. Everyone would probably assume you're using warriors anyway, so why not deliver on their expectations?
Since this is a top-down design, I'm afraid the Warriors will explore too much the themes already explored by the Gruul guild in the ravnican blocks.
I don't see how this is different for Rogues and Dimir or Clerics and Orzhov. I also think you can very easily differentiate them from Gruul if you wanted to, both mechanically and flavorfully.
Also, I think warriors will be harder to differentiate from Mercenaries then Shamans.
Really? How? I always thought of mercenaries as being closer to rogues/assassins than warriors, but then again I don't like using mercenaries specifically because it's too similar to other creatures types and originally had a very specific mechanical identity. As for shaman, I really don't see how they're similar at all, especially if they're in black green as life/death witch-doctor types.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
Then use it. Seriously, don't psyche yourself out of what feels natural. Everyone would probably assume you're using warriors anyway, so why not deliver on their expectations?
I'm convinced.
Really? How? I always thought of mercenaries as being closer to rogues/assassins than warriors, but then again I don't like using mercenaries specifically because it's too similar to other creatures types and originally had a very specific mechanical identity. As for shaman, I really don't see how they're similar at all, especially if they're in black green as life/death witch-doctor types.
Mercenaries in this block will follow the 'real world' mercenaries. They form private armies and fight for those who pay then. Mercenaries are actually quite versatile and i like this. They are all around experienced warriors, they may act as personal guardians, assassins or soldiers, depending on the client. They are perfect for RB because they caught what, in my opinion, is the most realistic portion of the color pair: unscrupulous, greedy and free spirit people who act of his own behalf but doesn't necessarily scream evil.
It's settle then, my tribes will be.
Advisor
* Focus on getting card advantage (drawing, tokens) and disrupting the opponent (tapping, taxes, bounce). The tribe is known for the large amount of creatures with repeatable activated abilities - advisors are always trying to build more and more advantage as the game drags on.
(Tap Out Control)
Clerics
* Focus on the preservation of your board via graveyard recursion and damage prevention and attacking with feel alpha fighters. At it's peak, clerics play like re animator decks, invoking their dead gods from the graveyard.
(Reanimator)
Rogue
* Focus on evasive creatures as early beats and disruption of specific cards to make the enemy enable to react, all while building card advantage via card/discard. Rogues are experts at stealing what your opponent have after all.
(Aggro-Control)
Wizard
* As expected, the wizard tribe support the flinging of instants and sorcery (instants mostly!). I was quite unpleased by how Izzet played in RTR (they were 100% aggro in limited) so I'm not afraid at all of stepping in izzet design space. UR players deserve to play counter burns !
(Draw Go Control / Tempo)
Mercenary
* Highly efficient but dangerous fighters, Mercenaries will most of the time be above the curve but have drawbacks. Weaker mercenaries are only marginally strong but they drawbacks should be light ones. Stronger mercenaries will be more dangerous to use but have higher pay back. Mercenary employer always try to finish a the battle as soon as possible before their minions take it's toll...
(Slight)
Shaman
* Shamans will focus on land magic, channeling the bitter powers of the soiled lands. By various means they harvest additional power from the nature around then. Shamans have land synergy and strong mana sinks, as they command extremely efficient predator minions.
(Land Matters Ramp)
Warrior
* Warriors see the strength as a end in itself. They are always looking for ways of getting stronger and proving their strength. They make extensive use of the fight mechanic, combat manipulation (lure, forcing attacks) and +1/+1 counters. They are not a all-out beat down tribe, they actually manipulate combat wisely and try to progressively grow as they fight on.
(Midrange)
Soldier
* Soldiers combine the best defensive tactics from white and the best offensive from red. They are not the stronger individual creatures but the high amount of synergy they built in each other makes then stronger in group.
(Aggro)
Archer
* Archers are expert at bow and they attack at range. They have the special keyword 'Focus Fire' which allows archer to allocate combat damage on attacking/blocking creatures they didn't block or didn't block then, giving then a edge on combat tactics. The archers seek to reach a better board state with this and find holes on the opponent defense (or build impenetrable defense for then).
(Beatdown)
Scout
* Scouts are employed the most to discover new territories, artifacts and hidden lore. Expert explorers, scouts come with many tutor and library manipulation effects via ETB effects (a scout normally joins with the knowledge they acquired and turn then too you. To explore again, they must leave the battlefield). The scout tribe is always searching for a end game artifacts and allies that will ultimately turn the tides of battle.
(Combo)
I generally like this except for mercenaries, only because they're not a commonly supported creature type. Every other creature type you're using is used in almost every set, which means your cards will play well with them. Mercenaries aren't supported anymore, so you'll only really be able to build decks using cards from this set alone.
I know this was made to be a draft-alone format, so you may not really care, but it's something consider when designing sets meant to interact on a constructed level (even if it's only theoretical)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
I plan on making a single large set and a average size expansion. The draft will be two boosters of the first set and one booster of the second. I'm doing this mostly because I enjoy XXY drafts the most and my group too. Also, a XYZ draft is quite challenging to design and XXX drafts gets stale after a while.
* First, it is a tribal set akin to Onslaught and Lorwyn. The set will try to explore the mechanics (both in limited and in gameplay) of playing with multiple creatures of the same type.
* Second, it is a multicolor block. I will explore the design golden and hybrid cards inside a tribal context. The first set will focus on two color cards (allies and enemies, like RTR) but the decks are meant to be draft in two or three colors. Due the large amount of class/tribes I will add a lot of hybrid and monocolor with off-color abilities compared to gold card sets. A 10 gold card set cannot work very well because the themes would be diluted. I need overlap and synergy between different classes as well.
* Third, the tribes will be classes (not races). This contributes with a top-down feeling in the whole set. I want the set to have a secondary 'adventure' subtheme and classes will contribute to that.
* Mixing the three element above this set have multiple tribes that are creature classes and each class is defined by a two color combination. In the expansion there will be hybrid classes or interaction between two or more classes.
The first step in making this set is defining the association between classes and colors. The point in this thread is to ask suggestion for this. Bold classes are 'defined' and will likely not change, not bold classes are not defined and '?' means i have no idea !
Advisor
Cleric
Rogue
Wizard
Mercenary
?
Shaman or Berserker
Soldier or Knight
Archer
Scout
I hope you guys have some neat suggestions !
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras
Agreed. As would Assassin, if you made them out to be kind of rangers.
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
The tribe is a hard dillema. I feel shaman is the one that suits it better, but I feel like shamans are a primary R thing. Druids is another option but the lack of mono black druids bothers me a little. Assassin is another nice option but the lack of green assassin also annoys me.
I'm this close to settle in shamans (as shamans allows for more diverse and less used themes). The overlap between druid and shaman might be something i should avoid, so i will probably go with Assassins.
Finnaly, what's you guys opnion about warrior ? The tribe will certainly be a 'armsmen' but I'm divided between Knights, Soldiers and Warriors. Nomad could be another option.
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras
I would go with Shaman for (B/G), Warriors for (R/G), and soldier for (R/W)
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
t (W/U): knight (bless)
S (B/G): shaman (curse)
t (R/W): soldier (overt)
S (U/B): mystic (covert)
t (B/R): berserker (destroy)
S (G/U): druid (preserve)
t (R/G): barbarian (pagan)
S (W/B): cleric (religious)
t (G/W): warrior (might)
S (U/R): wizard (magic)
sorted by colors, fighting classes in 3 W & R, 2 G, and 1 U & B, and vice versa for casting classes.
........................
This seems sensible.
I also like Barbarian over Berserker.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
I think warriors are indeed the most natural option for :symrg:. Since this is a top-down design, I'm afraid the Warriors will explore too much the themes already explored by the Gruul guild in the ravnican blocks. Also, I think warriors will be harder to differentiate from Mercenaries then Shamans.
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras
Then use it. Seriously, don't psyche yourself out of what feels natural. Everyone would probably assume you're using warriors anyway, so why not deliver on their expectations?
I don't see how this is different for Rogues and Dimir or Clerics and Orzhov. I also think you can very easily differentiate them from Gruul if you wanted to, both mechanically and flavorfully.
Really? How? I always thought of mercenaries as being closer to rogues/assassins than warriors, but then again I don't like using mercenaries specifically because it's too similar to other creatures types and originally had a very specific mechanical identity. As for shaman, I really don't see how they're similar at all, especially if they're in black green as life/death witch-doctor types.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
I'm convinced.
Mercenaries in this block will follow the 'real world' mercenaries. They form private armies and fight for those who pay then. Mercenaries are actually quite versatile and i like this. They are all around experienced warriors, they may act as personal guardians, assassins or soldiers, depending on the client. They are perfect for RB because they caught what, in my opinion, is the most realistic portion of the color pair: unscrupulous, greedy and free spirit people who act of his own behalf but doesn't necessarily scream evil.
It's settle then, my tribes will be.
Advisor
* Focus on getting card advantage (drawing, tokens) and disrupting the opponent (tapping, taxes, bounce). The tribe is known for the large amount of creatures with repeatable activated abilities - advisors are always trying to build more and more advantage as the game drags on.
(Tap Out Control)
Clerics
* Focus on the preservation of your board via graveyard recursion and damage prevention and attacking with feel alpha fighters. At it's peak, clerics play like re animator decks, invoking their dead gods from the graveyard.
(Reanimator)
Rogue
* Focus on evasive creatures as early beats and disruption of specific cards to make the enemy enable to react, all while building card advantage via card/discard. Rogues are experts at stealing what your opponent have after all.
(Aggro-Control)
Wizard
* As expected, the wizard tribe support the flinging of instants and sorcery (instants mostly!). I was quite unpleased by how Izzet played in RTR (they were 100% aggro in limited) so I'm not afraid at all of stepping in izzet design space. UR players deserve to play counter burns !
(Draw Go Control / Tempo)
Mercenary
* Highly efficient but dangerous fighters, Mercenaries will most of the time be above the curve but have drawbacks. Weaker mercenaries are only marginally strong but they drawbacks should be light ones. Stronger mercenaries will be more dangerous to use but have higher pay back. Mercenary employer always try to finish a the battle as soon as possible before their minions take it's toll...
(Slight)
Shaman
* Shamans will focus on land magic, channeling the bitter powers of the soiled lands. By various means they harvest additional power from the nature around then. Shamans have land synergy and strong mana sinks, as they command extremely efficient predator minions.
(Land Matters Ramp)
Warrior
* Warriors see the strength as a end in itself. They are always looking for ways of getting stronger and proving their strength. They make extensive use of the fight mechanic, combat manipulation (lure, forcing attacks) and +1/+1 counters. They are not a all-out beat down tribe, they actually manipulate combat wisely and try to progressively grow as they fight on.
(Midrange)
Soldier
* Soldiers combine the best defensive tactics from white and the best offensive from red. They are not the stronger individual creatures but the high amount of synergy they built in each other makes then stronger in group.
(Aggro)
Archer
* Archers are expert at bow and they attack at range. They have the special keyword 'Focus Fire' which allows archer to allocate combat damage on attacking/blocking creatures they didn't block or didn't block then, giving then a edge on combat tactics. The archers seek to reach a better board state with this and find holes on the opponent defense (or build impenetrable defense for then).
(Beatdown)
Scout
* Scouts are employed the most to discover new territories, artifacts and hidden lore. Expert explorers, scouts come with many tutor and library manipulation effects via ETB effects (a scout normally joins with the knowledge they acquired and turn then too you. To explore again, they must leave the battlefield). The scout tribe is always searching for a end game artifacts and allies that will ultimately turn the tides of battle.
(Combo)
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras
I know this was made to be a draft-alone format, so you may not really care, but it's something consider when designing sets meant to interact on a constructed level (even if it's only theoretical)
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing