Adaptive KrasisUG
Creature - Drake Wolf
Flying
Adapt (Whenever this creature becomes the target of a spell or ability an opponent controls, you may put the top card of your library into your graveyard. If it's a creature or instant card, counter that spell or ability.)
2/2
Trying to replace hexproof. I forgo triggering with sorceries because it feels more flavorful (to adapt you need either a gene influx, or a instantaneous magical influx) and because I feel 'creatures or instants' could be a nice UG counterpart to UR's 'sorceries or instants.' On gameplay, this should be a nice bonus when playing against targeted removal heavy decks, without setting up the perfect foundation for battle-cruisers. It also plays well with our new scry tool, even at sorcery speed (as it either baits removal, or lets you know your creature is protected for a while.)
I don't think replacing the lack of interactivity of hexproof with randomness is the way to go. It's rather awkward, seeing as the condition and the effect seem unlinked other than by loose flavour.
If you want it to be flavorful, make it search for land and call it "shelter" or "camouflage" etc.
I don't see the great mechanical draw of this version of the mechanic over e. g. "hexproof while untapped", "spealls targeting this cost more", "counter spell targeting this unless controller pays", "spells targeting this cause damage to opponent or you to draw a card or something". There are many 'deterministic' aproaches that make for a relatively better gameplay and have interesting implications without making gmes at a higher level more of a "coin flip to win".
Alternatively you could make 'adapt' a mechanic that says "certain cards in your hand are now counterspells specific to protecting THIS" e. g.
Adapt (Whenever this creature becomes the target of a spell or ability, you may discard a [creature] card. If you do, counter that spell or ability.)
This would downgrade hexproof by card disadvntage, but still make it an upgrade to a vanilla creature. And the decision between the "bird in hand" and the future card is no longer a coin flip, but a tactical decision. Who doesn't like those?
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Mmmm, I have been thinking a lot. I knew Adapt was a 'random mechanic', but I wasn't thinking about it as Clash 2.0.
Let's look at scry for example. Everyone would call it 'anti-random' actually, but if you are playing lesser effects (ie: scrylands vs lifegain lands) and then never getting the "filtering", wouldn't a player think "Such a nasty streak of luck, I have kept the card on top for 5 scrys in a row. I could be 5 life ahead instead."? The answer is no, players don't feel that. Which is a bit weird actually.
I think the reason I was classifying Adapt as 'scry random' rather than 'clash random' is because a player is always taking non-deterministic actions during a game. Adapt is just "I should use my targeted removal elsewhere, but in a pinch, my expected value may be to go for it." Likewise, the other player knows that putting auras here is safer, but after a point, you are playing with fire.
Anyways, at the end I think you are right, this wouldn't feel 'scry random'.
Also food for thought:
-Is 'Whenever this becomes the target... ...draw a card.' more deterministic? (The card you draw may be a land when you don't need a land, or otherwise more or less valuable. It's certainly a non-deterministic drawback. Then again, is 'lose 3 life' truly deterministic? If the game is about players control-locking the game via card advantage, it can also be wildy varying in power.)
-As I read the spoilers for Origins, 'renown' seems like a mechanic that could be very random too. It's like bloodrush and ophidian effects, where lacking an early drop doesn't just mean a few points of damage. This random lack is amplified into the game spiraling out of control (admittedly, not as much as those bloodrush and ophidians.)
-Why does Narset Transcendant +1 feel more 'scry random'? Getting a card draw is pretty big, but on the other hand it's always at least the '+1' and it makes players feel like the card advantage is just around the corner each time.
--
Ok, after all that, here is an attempt of making Adapt 'scry random':
Adapt (Whenever this creature becomes the target of a spell or ability an opponent controls, you may put the top card of your library into your graveyard. If it's a creature or instant card, counter that spell or ability and tap this creature.)
I feel this is a step in the right direction. Now I always get to put the creature out of commission for at least a turn. (One of the reasons I don't like Untapped-Hexproof is because it still leads to all the uninteractiveness of hexproof so long as you don't need this particular creature to race, and this version doesn't have that problem.)
How is scry random? It's not weird that players think "oh, if I had played something else I would be in a different situation", that's rational not to think that, as there are always things you could have played but didn't. Scry interacts with a random element, but it doesn't introduce randomness, same as removal against an opponent. With your other points:
1) you are over thinking it. Everything internally within the game is deterministic, as even shuffling is predictable, just very chaotic. It's relative and based on effective difference with "randomness" in design. If it doesn't involve selective value based on the library, dice, coins or simply the words "random", it's not random for all intents and purposes. And if it does, it is. Drawing a card is close to being considered random, as there is variation in actual effect, but it's based on a singular item of value, so it's indirect variation- interactivity.
2) Again, not random. There is variance, but that's not random.
3) Narset is the same as your suggested mechanic, it just justifies it better as it is a more organic part of the design.
Your later suggestion has the same problems. It does nothing to address the artificial addition of text to an ability.
Let's look at scry for example. Everyone would call it 'anti-random' actually, but if you are playing lesser effects (ie: scrylands vs lifegain lands) and then never getting the "filtering", wouldn't a player think "Such a nasty streak of luck, I have kept the card on top for 5 scrys in a row. I could be 5 life ahead instead."? The answer is no, players don't feel that. Which is a bit weird actually.
That's not a very apt comparison because the knowledge of what's coming next can also be an advantage. I play a scry land, and see a Wrath effect on top of my library, so I leave it there. I pass the turn. My opponent plays a threatening creature. Do I counter it with the counterspell I have in hand, or do I wait to draw the Wrath that I know is there, and clear the rest of their board? In this situation, I don't think I'd say "Dang, I left it there so I didn't get the filtering effect. I wish I would have had an extra life instead of knowing I could hold on to my counterspell".
Creature - Drake Wolf
Flying
Adapt (Whenever this creature becomes the target of a spell or ability an opponent controls, you may put the top card of your library into your graveyard. If it's a creature or instant card, counter that spell or ability.)
2/2
Trying to replace hexproof. I forgo triggering with sorceries because it feels more flavorful (to adapt you need either a gene influx, or a instantaneous magical influx) and because I feel 'creatures or instants' could be a nice UG counterpart to UR's 'sorceries or instants.' On gameplay, this should be a nice bonus when playing against targeted removal heavy decks, without setting up the perfect foundation for battle-cruisers. It also plays well with our new scry tool, even at sorcery speed (as it either baits removal, or lets you know your creature is protected for a while.)
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
I don't see the great mechanical draw of this version of the mechanic over e. g. "hexproof while untapped", "spealls targeting this cost more", "counter spell targeting this unless controller pays", "spells targeting this cause damage to opponent or you to draw a card or something". There are many 'deterministic' aproaches that make for a relatively better gameplay and have interesting implications without making gmes at a higher level more of a "coin flip to win".
Alternatively you could make 'adapt' a mechanic that says "certain cards in your hand are now counterspells specific to protecting THIS" e. g.
This would downgrade hexproof by card disadvntage, but still make it an upgrade to a vanilla creature. And the decision between the "bird in hand" and the future card is no longer a coin flip, but a tactical decision. Who doesn't like those?
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
Let's look at scry for example. Everyone would call it 'anti-random' actually, but if you are playing lesser effects (ie: scrylands vs lifegain lands) and then never getting the "filtering", wouldn't a player think "Such a nasty streak of luck, I have kept the card on top for 5 scrys in a row. I could be 5 life ahead instead."? The answer is no, players don't feel that. Which is a bit weird actually.
I think the reason I was classifying Adapt as 'scry random' rather than 'clash random' is because a player is always taking non-deterministic actions during a game. Adapt is just "I should use my targeted removal elsewhere, but in a pinch, my expected value may be to go for it." Likewise, the other player knows that putting auras here is safer, but after a point, you are playing with fire.
Anyways, at the end I think you are right, this wouldn't feel 'scry random'.
Also food for thought:
-Is 'Whenever this becomes the target... ...draw a card.' more deterministic? (The card you draw may be a land when you don't need a land, or otherwise more or less valuable. It's certainly a non-deterministic drawback. Then again, is 'lose 3 life' truly deterministic? If the game is about players control-locking the game via card advantage, it can also be wildy varying in power.)
-As I read the spoilers for Origins, 'renown' seems like a mechanic that could be very random too. It's like bloodrush and ophidian effects, where lacking an early drop doesn't just mean a few points of damage. This random lack is amplified into the game spiraling out of control (admittedly, not as much as those bloodrush and ophidians.)
-Why does Narset Transcendant +1 feel more 'scry random'? Getting a card draw is pretty big, but on the other hand it's always at least the '+1' and it makes players feel like the card advantage is just around the corner each time.
--
Ok, after all that, here is an attempt of making Adapt 'scry random':
Adapt (Whenever this creature becomes the target of a spell or ability an opponent controls, you may put the top card of your library into your graveyard. If it's a creature or instant card, counter that spell or ability and tap this creature.)
I feel this is a step in the right direction. Now I always get to put the creature out of commission for at least a turn. (One of the reasons I don't like Untapped-Hexproof is because it still leads to all the uninteractiveness of hexproof so long as you don't need this particular creature to race, and this version doesn't have that problem.)
1) you are over thinking it. Everything internally within the game is deterministic, as even shuffling is predictable, just very chaotic. It's relative and based on effective difference with "randomness" in design. If it doesn't involve selective value based on the library, dice, coins or simply the words "random", it's not random for all intents and purposes. And if it does, it is. Drawing a card is close to being considered random, as there is variation in actual effect, but it's based on a singular item of value, so it's indirect variation- interactivity.
2) Again, not random. There is variance, but that's not random.
3) Narset is the same as your suggested mechanic, it just justifies it better as it is a more organic part of the design.
Your later suggestion has the same problems. It does nothing to address the artificial addition of text to an ability.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Reflect (If this would become the target of a spell or ability, you may instead have that spell or ability target another legal target you control.)