I've been looking for a way to represent tomes of dark lore for a set of mine. Here is the mechanic I have right now.
The key here is that Tomes make you perform an action to put knowledge counters on them, then give you a benefit if they have the prescribed number of knowledge counters on them at your upkeep.
Cryptomancer's Codex4
Artifact -- Tome (C) 1, Tap a creature you control: Put a knowledge counter on Cryptomantic Codex.
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may remove three knowledge counters from Cryptomantic Codex. If you do, draw two cards.
Tome from Ancient Aeons3
Artifact -- Tome (U)
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may discard a card. If you do, put a knowledge counter on Tome from Ancient Aeons.
Sacrifice Tome from Ancient Aeons: Add 1 to your mana pool for each knowledge counter on Tome from Ancient Aeons.
Grimoire of the Waking Circle2
Artifact- Tome (R) 3, Sacrifice a creature: Put a knowledge counter on Book of the Waking Circle.
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may remove any number of knowledge counters on Book of the Waking Circle. If you do, put a colorless 0/1 Eldrazi Spawn creature token onto the battlefield for each counter removed this way. These tokens have “Sacrifice this creature: Add to your mana pool.”
There's also going to be support for Tomes at common and uncommon, much in the way Gates had some support in RTR.
Grimoire Worm1B
Creature -- Worm (C)
Whenever Grimoire Worm attacks, if you control a Grimoire, that player puts the top two cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard. It doesn't eat books: it eats knowledge.
1/1
Student of Antiquity2U
Creature -- Merfolk Wizard (U)
When Student of Antiquity enters the battlefield, you may search your library for an artifact card with converted mana cost 2 or less or a Grimoire card, reveal it, then shuffle your library and put that card on top of it.
2/2
Cryptomancer's Codex4
Artifact -- Tome (C) 1, Tap a creature you control: Put a knowledge counter on Cryptomantic Codex.
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may remove three knowledge counters from Cryptomantic Codex. If you do, draw two cards.
A fine idea for an artifact but I immediately think of Jayemdae Tome and I immediately think this is too good, even if the rarity is increased to something reasonable such as uncommon. One other change that might help, without the obvious shifting of mana costs is only allowing players to add knowledge counters during their main phases.
Tome from Ancient Aeons3
Artifact -- Tome (U)
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may discard a card. If you do, put a knowledge counter on Tome from Ancient Aeons.
Sacrifice Tome from Ancient Aeons: Add 1 to your mana pool for each knowledge counter on Tome from Ancient Aeons.
A little confused by the format change here, where I gain knowledge counters during upkeep but can activate any time. I'd prefer some consistency. An eldrazi set might make it worthwhile losing card advantage for a one-time mana boost but most players won't want to do that. But on the other hand if your set has a stockpile of common madness cards this could swing from tough unlikely to see play to limited bomb. Until a full set is in front of you it's hard to say.
In addition it would really suck though if your opponent finds his artifact removal spell the turn before you wanted to sac this.
Grimoire of the Waking Circle2
Artifact- Tome (R) 3, Sacrifice a creature: Put a knowledge counter on Book of the Waking Circle.
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may remove any number of knowledge counters on Book of the Waking Circle. If you do, put a colorless 0/1 Eldrazi Spawn creature token onto the battlefield for each counter removed this way. These tokens have “Sacrifice this creature: Add to your mana pool.”
Another difficult design to work with. 3 mana and a creature for one eldrazi spawn feels way off. What about a kinder card which says something along the lines of "Whenever a creature you control dies you may pay 3 and gain 2 knowledge counters" or better yet find a way to offer more counters to players when bigger or better creatures dies. I assume cultists can blight their own stuff?
Grimoire Worm1B
Creature -- Worm (C)
Whenever Grimoire Worm attacks, if you control a Grimoire, that player puts the top two cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard. It doesn't eat books: it eats knowledge.
1/1
Works better if it cost U but the concept works. Get a Tome (which I'm assuming you mean when you say Grimoire, if not feel free to ignore everything I say) and this little bookworm is about to use the knowledge to gorge on people's minds. Kind of reminds of the lurking dangers in the unseen university library. I wonder if there's a way to use the knowledge counters in this design, such when this attacks it mills equal to the knowledge counters on target tome you control. Just a thought.
Student of Antiquity2U
Creature -- Merfolk Wizard (U)
When Student of Antiquity enters the battlefield, you may search your library for an artifact card with converted mana cost 2 or less or a Grimoire card, reveal it, then shuffle your library and put that card on top of it.
2/2
This student must be top of his class to be surpassing trinket mage searching abilities already. Although the tutor effect here is slower than trinket mage it has a greater scope and in my book it should still cost a little more, particular if Tome's are big thing in this set. Start around 2UU and see what plays fair.
@Cryptomancer's Codex: Yes, that's a good idea, though it makes some of the cards a bit wordy to add "Activate this ability only during your main phase" on them.
@Tome of Ancient Aeons: That was a relic of the original MSE thread. I'll change it, maybe even do something else with that particular tome since it'll just spit out mana that goes to waste.
@Book of the Waking Circle: I tried to fit this text into the text box in MSE, but it just gets too small:
Whenever a creature you control dies, you may pay 3. If you do, put X knowledge counters on Book of the Waking Circle, where X is that creature’s power.
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may remove any number of knowledge counters on Book of the Waking Circle. If you do, put that many colorless 0/1 Eldrazi Spawn creature token onto the battlefield. They have “Sacrifice this creature: Add 1 to your mana pool.”
This, however, looks better:
Whenever a creature you control dies, you may pay 3. If you do, put a knowledge counter on Book of the Waking Circle.
At the beginning of your upkeep, put a colorless 0/1 Eldrazi Spawn creature token onto the battlefield for each knowledge counter on Book of the Waking Circle. They have “Sacrifice this creature: Add 1 to your mana pool.”
@Grimoire Wurm: Good point. U in my set does need a one-drop for the Eldrazi side.
@Student: Bumped up cost. Maybe I can lower the CMC limit on the kinds of artifacts this can search for.
This concept of building up counters and then using them has been done many times before. It was featured relatively heavily in both Mirrodin blocks but also on ocasional artifacts in other sets as well, and has been on numerous mana artifacts and storage lands. These attempts at this design space feel really clunky and mismatched cost to effect.
Cryptomancer's Codex - This seems a bit too complicated and too much like Symbiotic Deployment (and in a few ways better than Deployment) to be a common. I think a card drawing Tome is going to need to be uncommon or higher. Do all Tomes need to use counters? This might be okay as just be:
,T, Tap a creature you control: Draw a card. Activate this ability only during your turn.
Tome from Ancient Aeons - Does it need to sacrifice? Skirge Familiar is more expensive, but gives you much greater control over when and how you use your cards for mana. This might be able to just continually ramp like Grindclock.
T, Discard a card: Put a charge knowledge counter on CARDNAME. T: Add X to your mana pool, where X is the number of charge knowledge counters on CARDNAME.
This concept of building up counters and then using them has been done many times before. It was featured relatively heavily in both Mirrodin blocks but also on ocasional artifacts in other sets as well, and has been on numerous mana artifacts and storage lands. These attempts at this design space feel really clunky and mismatched cost to effect.
Yeah, I was trying to find a way to differentiate Tomes from other artifacts, else I'm better off just making them regular artifacts. I was gunning for something more like the Quests of Zendikar, except book-related.
I do agree with the critiques on the cards though.
Any suggestions on how to fix the Tomes? Or should I just dump the idea altogether?
The key here is that Tomes make you perform an action to put knowledge counters on them, then give you a benefit if they have the prescribed number of knowledge counters on them at your upkeep.
Cryptomancer's Codex 4
Artifact -- Tome (C)
1, Tap a creature you control: Put a knowledge counter on Cryptomantic Codex.
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may remove three knowledge counters from Cryptomantic Codex. If you do, draw two cards.
Tome from Ancient Aeons 3
Artifact -- Tome (U)
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may discard a card. If you do, put a knowledge counter on Tome from Ancient Aeons.
Sacrifice Tome from Ancient Aeons: Add 1 to your mana pool for each knowledge counter on Tome from Ancient Aeons.
Grimoire of the Waking Circle 2
Artifact- Tome (R)
3, Sacrifice a creature: Put a knowledge counter on Book of the Waking Circle.
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may remove any number of knowledge counters on Book of the Waking Circle. If you do, put a colorless 0/1 Eldrazi Spawn creature token onto the battlefield for each counter removed this way. These tokens have “Sacrifice this creature: Add to your mana pool.”
There's also going to be support for Tomes at common and uncommon, much in the way Gates had some support in RTR.
Grimoire Worm 1B
Creature -- Worm (C)
Whenever Grimoire Worm attacks, if you control a Grimoire, that player puts the top two cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard.
It doesn't eat books: it eats knowledge.
1/1
Student of Antiquity 2U
Creature -- Merfolk Wizard (U)
When Student of Antiquity enters the battlefield, you may search your library for an artifact card with converted mana cost 2 or less or a Grimoire card, reveal it, then shuffle your library and put that card on top of it.
2/2
----------------------------
Club Flamingo Wins: 10
----------------------------
EDH Decks
BG Vicious Varolz | RW Jor Kadeen, the Mean Machine | RG Atarka: Muh_Dragons.dec (WIP) | WU Brago, Blink Eternal (WIP)
----------------------------
A fine idea for an artifact but I immediately think of Jayemdae Tome and I immediately think this is too good, even if the rarity is increased to something reasonable such as uncommon. One other change that might help, without the obvious shifting of mana costs is only allowing players to add knowledge counters during their main phases.
A little confused by the format change here, where I gain knowledge counters during upkeep but can activate any time. I'd prefer some consistency. An eldrazi set might make it worthwhile losing card advantage for a one-time mana boost but most players won't want to do that. But on the other hand if your set has a stockpile of common madness cards this could swing from tough unlikely to see play to limited bomb. Until a full set is in front of you it's hard to say.
In addition it would really suck though if your opponent finds his artifact removal spell the turn before you wanted to sac this.
Another difficult design to work with. 3 mana and a creature for one eldrazi spawn feels way off. What about a kinder card which says something along the lines of "Whenever a creature you control dies you may pay 3 and gain 2 knowledge counters" or better yet find a way to offer more counters to players when bigger or better creatures dies. I assume cultists can blight their own stuff?
Works better if it cost U but the concept works. Get a Tome (which I'm assuming you mean when you say Grimoire, if not feel free to ignore everything I say) and this little bookworm is about to use the knowledge to gorge on people's minds. Kind of reminds of the lurking dangers in the unseen university library. I wonder if there's a way to use the knowledge counters in this design, such when this attacks it mills equal to the knowledge counters on target tome you control. Just a thought.
This student must be top of his class to be surpassing trinket mage searching abilities already. Although the tutor effect here is slower than trinket mage it has a greater scope and in my book it should still cost a little more, particular if Tome's are big thing in this set. Start around 2UU and see what plays fair.
@Cryptomancer's Codex: Yes, that's a good idea, though it makes some of the cards a bit wordy to add "Activate this ability only during your main phase" on them.
@Tome of Ancient Aeons: That was a relic of the original MSE thread. I'll change it, maybe even do something else with that particular tome since it'll just spit out mana that goes to waste.
@Book of the Waking Circle: I tried to fit this text into the text box in MSE, but it just gets too small:
This, however, looks better:
@Grimoire Wurm: Good point. U in my set does need a one-drop for the Eldrazi side.
@Student: Bumped up cost. Maybe I can lower the CMC limit on the kinds of artifacts this can search for.
----------------------------
Club Flamingo Wins: 10
----------------------------
EDH Decks
BG Vicious Varolz | RW Jor Kadeen, the Mean Machine | RG Atarka: Muh_Dragons.dec (WIP) | WU Brago, Blink Eternal (WIP)
----------------------------
Cryptomancer's Codex - This seems a bit too complicated and too much like Symbiotic Deployment (and in a few ways better than Deployment) to be a common. I think a card drawing Tome is going to need to be uncommon or higher. Do all Tomes need to use counters? This might be okay as just be:
Tome from Ancient Aeons - Does it need to sacrifice? Skirge Familiar is more expensive, but gives you much greater control over when and how you use your cards for mana. This might be able to just continually ramp like Grindclock.
chargeknowledge counter on CARDNAME.T: Add X to your mana pool, where X is the number of
chargeknowledge counters on CARDNAME.At the very least the mana ability could just remove the counters like Calciform Pools. Or maybe even like Druids' Repository:
chargeknowledge counter from CARDNAME: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.Grimoire of the Waking Circle - It could probably just be a cross between Gemstone Array and token producers like Mobilization:
Yeah, I was trying to find a way to differentiate Tomes from other artifacts, else I'm better off just making them regular artifacts. I was gunning for something more like the Quests of Zendikar, except book-related.
I do agree with the critiques on the cards though.
Any suggestions on how to fix the Tomes? Or should I just dump the idea altogether?
----------------------------
Club Flamingo Wins: 10
----------------------------
EDH Decks
BG Vicious Varolz | RW Jor Kadeen, the Mean Machine | RG Atarka: Muh_Dragons.dec (WIP) | WU Brago, Blink Eternal (WIP)
----------------------------