Arcane Close - UU
Instant
Arcane Close costs U more to cast for each card named Arcane Close in your graveyard.
Counter target spell.
Dept to Knowledge - U
Instant
Draw three cards and put three dept counters on you. As long as there's a dept counter on you, whenever you would draw a card, instead skip that draw and remove a dept counter from you.
Arcane Close.
The wording is elegant and simple.
By the 4th cast though (or if you've been milled alot) you end up paying 5 blue for 1 counterspell, which is basically unusable. Can't see putting more than 2 in a deck, but those 2 would be decent.
Debt to Knowledge should exile itself with the counters on it, and when they're gone move itself to the graveyard.
Arcane Close - UU
Instant
Arcane Close costs U more to cast for each card named Arcane Close in your graveyard.
Counter target spell.
Maybe! I'm not 100% sure. It might get run as a 3-of to avoid multiples.
Dept to Knowledge - U
Instant
Draw three cards and put three dept counters on you. As long as there's a dept counter on you, whenever you would draw a card, instead skip that draw and remove a dept counter from you.
The word you want is "debt." Also, I don't think this works too well... "draw three, you keep them all" is pretty strong. Even in the formats that aren't nuts, this is still quite good.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
what are the circumstances in which accelerating your next 3 draws is "devastating"?
If you know exactly what's on the top of your deck, then yes, drawing 3 cards is nice. But if you don't have another way to draw cards in your hand, then your missing 3 turns draw steps. It also makes other draw spells like Divination simply not do anything. It's kind of like the same concept behind saccing lands as additional costs. Sure, you can play Scythe Tiger on turn 1, and that's not too bad. But it also slows the rest of your plays down because it resets your land drop.
...How is that a bit much? Skipping your next three draws can be somewhat devastating given some circumstances.
And the counterspell isn't bad. I don't really see a deck running more than two or three, because after the first one, you'd rather play Cancel.
It is like this.
I have 7 cards in hand. I play a land, then this card.
Suddenly, 8 cards again.
...
It's not like there's any work involved to get rid of the debt.
Also you must think outside of just standard. Older formats (correct me if I'm wrong) would love to have another Ancestral.
I can't actually say because my knowledge of those formats is nil, but "skip your next three draws" isn't a big deal when you don't need to see another draw step to win. Or you play a "draw 7" card and draw 4 instead.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
Even if Debt to Knowledge said 'Draw 3 cards. For the rest of the game, if you would draw a card, skip that draw', it would be broken in eternal formats. Remember that Meditate is insanely good, and it has nothing on this.
If you know exactly what's on the top of your deck, then yes, drawing 3 cards is nice. But if you don't have another way to draw cards in your hand, then your missing 3 turns draw steps. It also makes other draw spells like Divination simply not do anything. It's kind of like the same concept behind saccing lands as additional costs. Sure, you can play Scythe Tiger on turn 1, and that's not too bad. But it also slows the rest of your plays down because it resets your land drop.
If you know exactly what's on the top of your deck, then yes, drawing 3 cards is nice. its also nice when you don't know whats on the top of your deck
But if you don't have another way to draw cards in your hand, then your missing 3 turns draw steps. you didn't miss them, you ALREADY TOOK THEM. THREE TURNS EARLY.
It also makes other draw spells like Divination simply not do anything. no, it makes you start drawing again TWO TURNS EARLIER.
It's kind of like the same concept behind saccing lands as additional costs. no because you ACCELERATE DRAWS, you don't LOSE DRAWS.
It is like this.
I have 7 cards in hand. I play a land, then this card.
Suddenly, 8 cards again.
Big ****ing deal. Jesus, the way people go on about card advantage you would think that as long as you're drawing more cards, you could lose every game but it'd be a moral victory cause you had card advantage.
The card is fine, people are just having knee-jerk reactions to a card that lets you draw more than one card. It doesn't need fixing, it doesn't need to skip five cards, it's FINE.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When editing cards in the first post of a thread, PLEASE leave the original so that everyone can comment on the thread and not just those who saw the original. Those who did not see the original can't leave comments as we don't have any idea WTF is going on.
Colourless mana comes FIRST! Try actually looking at a Magic card some time. It is NOT UU3, it's 3UU. What game are you making cards for?
I can no longer tell people to check their card names, because I am made of suck and fail.
Big ****ing deal. Jesus, the way people go on about card advantage you would think that as long as you're drawing more cards, you could lose every game but it'd be a moral victory cause you had card advantage.
The card is fine, people are just having knee-jerk reactions to a card that lets you draw more than one card. It doesn't need fixing, it doesn't need to skip five cards, it's FINE.
You obviously haven't seen a vintage game play out. Who cares if you skip your next 3 draws when you never draw another card? Yes, you'll have to play this last in a string of draw, and Will doesn't help much for it, but that doesn't make it any less broken.
Actually, I have, and there's much more degenerate stuff than this. Brainstorm does much the same thing here, does it not? Three cards, one mana?
At worst this would be restricted in Vintage. More like not played, given the other options available that don't make you not able to draw cards. In that case, I guess we can apply everything in here to Brainstorm?
I think you should be just a bit more careful what you tell a guy who's played for 16 years what that guy has seen and not seen.
When editing cards in the first post of a thread, PLEASE leave the original so that everyone can comment on the thread and not just those who saw the original. Those who did not see the original can't leave comments as we don't have any idea WTF is going on.
Colourless mana comes FIRST! Try actually looking at a Magic card some time. It is NOT UU3, it's 3UU. What game are you making cards for?
I can no longer tell people to check their card names, because I am made of suck and fail.
Hell, it's not even necessarily "you lose three turns' worth of draws" thanks to Howling Mine and/or Font of Mythos (which turn it into 1 1/2 and one turn's worth, respectively, without bothering with multiples).
Well Brainstorm lets you get the cards you put on top of your library back immediately with a Howling Mine...
Face it guys, Brainstorm is more powerful than this card. Come up with all the dumb outlandish scenarios you want and Brainstorm still will be more powerful since you're not "losing" the draws. Show me some time where not drawing three cards is more powerful than redrawing two of them. And if you're gonna use the "three cards for one mana" thing, well, I think we've already covered that one.
Come up with something that isn't a knee-jerk to seeing "draw three cards, pay one mana".
When editing cards in the first post of a thread, PLEASE leave the original so that everyone can comment on the thread and not just those who saw the original. Those who did not see the original can't leave comments as we don't have any idea WTF is going on.
Colourless mana comes FIRST! Try actually looking at a Magic card some time. It is NOT UU3, it's 3UU. What game are you making cards for?
I can no longer tell people to check their card names, because I am made of suck and fail.
Skipping your next 3 draw is a laughable drawback considering your opponent is dead after you cast ancestral recall. It might as well be "lose the game next turn", because it will never come to that.
Actually, I have, and there's much more degenerate stuff than this. Brainstorm does much the same thing here, does it not? Three cards, one mana?
.... In that case, I guess we can apply everything in here to Brainstorm?
No. You never play a blind brainstorm unless you're about to lose now if you don't.
And in such a situation, this is infinitely better than brainstorm, because brainstorm gets your 1 card. This gets you 3.
Face it guys, Brainstorm is more powerful than this card. Come up with all the dumb outlandish scenarios you want and Brainstorm still will be more powerful since you're not "losing" the draws. Show me some time where not drawing three cards is more powerful than redrawing two of them. And if you're gonna use the "three cards for one mana" thing, well, I think we've already covered that one.
Just play vintage. Watch games end when brainstorm resolves. Now, imagine brainstorm where you don't have to return 2 cards.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
brainstorm is probably more useful if you have a bunch of stuff in your hand, and even better if you can find a way to shuffle your library after you put the cards on top.
however, if your hand is empty, debt gives your 3 cards instantly, over just 1 from brainstorm.
thing is.. in a deck that is filled with draw cards, that debt of 3 becomes insignificant compared the super low mana cost of the card.
one alternative is instead of skipping the draw itself, skip your draw step instead. this eliminates the benefit of things like howling mine and burning the counters off with something cheap like brainstorm. downside is you can still draw with any other card effects.
OMG, A CARD THAT WOULD BE BROKEN IN ETERNAL!!! That's a stupid argument. There are combos with the current cards that can win T1 in eternal formats, I don't imagine drawing three rather than tutoring is going to be as important to eternals.
brainstorm is probably more useful if you have a bunch of stuff in your hand, and even better if you can find a way to shuffle your library after you put the cards on top.
however, if your hand is empty, debt gives your 3 cards instantly, over just 1 from brainstorm.
Alright, see this is a good counterpoint. But everyone is seeing "number of cards" as the major hurdle here (and isn't that what I've been talking about?) You're not going to put back two cards you need, you're going to put back two you don't, so it really doesn't matter if you have 5 cards in hand afterwards, or 8. You still have three (new) cards for one mana. What does it matter how many you have if none of them are useful to the situation at hand?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When editing cards in the first post of a thread, PLEASE leave the original so that everyone can comment on the thread and not just those who saw the original. Those who did not see the original can't leave comments as we don't have any idea WTF is going on.
Colourless mana comes FIRST! Try actually looking at a Magic card some time. It is NOT UU3, it's 3UU. What game are you making cards for?
I can no longer tell people to check their card names, because I am made of suck and fail.
Dept to Knowledge - U
Instant
Draw three cards and put three dept counters on you. As long as there's a dept counter on you, whenever you would draw a card, instead skip that draw and remove a dept counter from you.
What about: Debt to Knowledge
Sorcery
Draw three cards and exile ~ with 3 time counters on it. As long as there is a time counter on ~, whenever you would draw a card, if it isn't your draw step, skip that draw and remove a time counter from ~.
What about: Debt to Knowledge
Sorcery
Draw three cards and exile ~ with 3 time counters on it. As long as there is a time counter on ~, whenever you would draw a card, if it isn't your draw step, skip that draw and remove a time counter from ~.
More fair?
Doesn't that make it better?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
First, it's now a sorcery instead of an instant. Second, it doesn't remove time counters for draws during your draw step, which even if it was still an instant, makes it strictly worse.
First, it's now a sorcery instead of an instant. Second, it doesn't remove time counters for draws during your draw step, which even if it was still an instant, makes it strictly worse.
It lets you draw cards during your draw step now, if I'm reading it correctly. The other one did not. So...
Sorcery speed... didn't notice, to be honest. Sorry.
I'm pretty sure any rendition of the current card concept is going to be broken. Three cards for U needs an immediate and somewhat severe drawback to avoid being too strong. The problem with the card is that the drawback doesn't immediately affect you, allowing you to do all sorts of crazy stuff with your shiny new three cards until your next turn. If it, say, restricted your spells for the turn, or exiled some cards from your hand (I say exile because discard would be even more broken), THEN it could be workable.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Seth Dracovitch »
If I could "like" or "upvote" you right now, I would.
Quote from Boing »
Into the Maw of Hell is a name so awesome, it deserves its own song.
It would be about a world of brown spikes and red fire, where men fight and scream and become blurry masses. Then it would change to somber, we learn that this glorious place exists only in Raymond Swanland's head. To visit it, you must enter the maw of Hell itself.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Instant
Arcane Close costs U more to cast for each card named Arcane Close in your graveyard.
Counter target spell.
Dept to Knowledge - U
Instant
Draw three cards and put three dept counters on you. As long as there's a dept counter on you, whenever you would draw a card, instead skip that draw and remove a dept counter from you.
The wording is elegant and simple.
By the 4th cast though (or if you've been milled alot) you end up paying 5 blue for 1 counterspell, which is basically unusable. Can't see putting more than 2 in a deck, but those 2 would be decent.
Debt to Knowledge should exile itself with the counters on it, and when they're gone move itself to the graveyard.
Maybe! I'm not 100% sure. It might get run as a 3-of to avoid multiples.
The word you want is "debt." Also, I don't think this works too well... "draw three, you keep them all" is pretty strong. Even in the formats that aren't nuts, this is still quite good.
Maybe at "draw three, skip your next five cards' worth of draw"... but even then I'd have that at more than just U.
(Probably NSFW) So you may have heard I'm trying to write a TV series...
Most Nominated for Random Categories, 2013
...How is that a bit much? Skipping your next three draws can be somewhat devastating given some circumstances.
And the counterspell isn't bad. I don't really see a deck running more than two or three, because after the first one, you'd rather play Cancel.
My art blog
Claims:
The kicker variant in WWK will be "Kicker without a kicked effect." - proven wrong Jan 2010 : 2 wrongs
Decks:
:symu::symb: Bloodchief Ascension - Modern
:symb::symr: Rakdos, the Defiler - EDH
:symu::symb::symw: Sharuum the Hegemon - EDH
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter - EDH
If you know exactly what's on the top of your deck, then yes, drawing 3 cards is nice. But if you don't have another way to draw cards in your hand, then your missing 3 turns draw steps. It also makes other draw spells like Divination simply not do anything. It's kind of like the same concept behind saccing lands as additional costs. Sure, you can play Scythe Tiger on turn 1, and that's not too bad. But it also slows the rest of your plays down because it resets your land drop.
My art blog
Claims:
The kicker variant in WWK will be "Kicker without a kicked effect." - proven wrong Jan 2010 : 2 wrongs
Decks:
:symu::symb: Bloodchief Ascension - Modern
:symb::symr: Rakdos, the Defiler - EDH
:symu::symb::symw: Sharuum the Hegemon - EDH
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter - EDH
It is like this.
I have 7 cards in hand. I play a land, then this card.
Suddenly, 8 cards again.
...
It's not like there's any work involved to get rid of the debt.
Also you must think outside of just standard. Older formats (correct me if I'm wrong) would love to have another Ancestral.
I can't actually say because my knowledge of those formats is nil, but "skip your next three draws" isn't a big deal when you don't need to see another draw step to win. Or you play a "draw 7" card and draw 4 instead.
you gotta be kidding me here..
But if you don't have another way to draw cards in your hand, then your missing 3 turns draw steps. you didn't miss them, you ALREADY TOOK THEM. THREE TURNS EARLY.
It also makes other draw spells like Divination simply not do anything. no, it makes you start drawing again TWO TURNS EARLIER.
It's kind of like the same concept behind saccing lands as additional costs. no because you ACCELERATE DRAWS, you don't LOSE DRAWS.
seriously you got to be kidding me.
Big ****ing deal. Jesus, the way people go on about card advantage you would think that as long as you're drawing more cards, you could lose every game but it'd be a moral victory cause you had card advantage.
The card is fine, people are just having knee-jerk reactions to a card that lets you draw more than one card. It doesn't need fixing, it doesn't need to skip five cards, it's FINE.
Colourless mana comes FIRST! Try actually looking at a Magic card some time. It is NOT UU3, it's 3UU. What game are you making cards for?
I can no longer tell people to check their card names, because I am made of suck and fail.
You obviously haven't seen a vintage game play out. Who cares if you skip your next 3 draws when you never draw another card? Yes, you'll have to play this last in a string of draw, and Will doesn't help much for it, but that doesn't make it any less broken.
At worst this would be restricted in Vintage. More like not played, given the other options available that don't make you not able to draw cards. In that case, I guess we can apply everything in here to Brainstorm?
I think you should be just a bit more careful what you tell a guy who's played for 16 years what that guy has seen and not seen.
Colourless mana comes FIRST! Try actually looking at a Magic card some time. It is NOT UU3, it's 3UU. What game are you making cards for?
I can no longer tell people to check their card names, because I am made of suck and fail.
(Probably NSFW) So you may have heard I'm trying to write a TV series...
Most Nominated for Random Categories, 2013
Face it guys, Brainstorm is more powerful than this card. Come up with all the dumb outlandish scenarios you want and Brainstorm still will be more powerful since you're not "losing" the draws. Show me some time where not drawing three cards is more powerful than redrawing two of them. And if you're gonna use the "three cards for one mana" thing, well, I think we've already covered that one.
Come up with something that isn't a knee-jerk to seeing "draw three cards, pay one mana".
Colourless mana comes FIRST! Try actually looking at a Magic card some time. It is NOT UU3, it's 3UU. What game are you making cards for?
I can no longer tell people to check their card names, because I am made of suck and fail.
No. You never play a blind brainstorm unless you're about to lose now if you don't.
And in such a situation, this is infinitely better than brainstorm, because brainstorm gets your 1 card. This gets you 3.
Just play vintage. Watch games end when brainstorm resolves. Now, imagine brainstorm where you don't have to return 2 cards.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
however, if your hand is empty, debt gives your 3 cards instantly, over just 1 from brainstorm.
thing is.. in a deck that is filled with draw cards, that debt of 3 becomes insignificant compared the super low mana cost of the card.
one alternative is instead of skipping the draw itself, skip your draw step instead. this eliminates the benefit of things like howling mine and burning the counters off with something cheap like brainstorm. downside is you can still draw with any other card effects.
My art blog
Claims:
The kicker variant in WWK will be "Kicker without a kicked effect." - proven wrong Jan 2010 : 2 wrongs
Decks:
:symu::symb: Bloodchief Ascension - Modern
:symb::symr: Rakdos, the Defiler - EDH
:symu::symb::symw: Sharuum the Hegemon - EDH
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter - EDH
Alright, see this is a good counterpoint. But everyone is seeing "number of cards" as the major hurdle here (and isn't that what I've been talking about?) You're not going to put back two cards you need, you're going to put back two you don't, so it really doesn't matter if you have 5 cards in hand afterwards, or 8. You still have three (new) cards for one mana. What does it matter how many you have if none of them are useful to the situation at hand?
Colourless mana comes FIRST! Try actually looking at a Magic card some time. It is NOT UU3, it's 3UU. What game are you making cards for?
I can no longer tell people to check their card names, because I am made of suck and fail.
What about:
Debt to Knowledge
Sorcery
Draw three cards and exile ~ with 3 time counters on it. As long as there is a time counter on ~, whenever you would draw a card, if it isn't your draw step, skip that draw and remove a time counter from ~.
More fair?
My art blog
Claims:
The kicker variant in WWK will be "Kicker without a kicked effect." - proven wrong Jan 2010 : 2 wrongs
Decks:
:symu::symb: Bloodchief Ascension - Modern
:symb::symr: Rakdos, the Defiler - EDH
:symu::symb::symw: Sharuum the Hegemon - EDH
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter - EDH
Doesn't that make it better?
...do you understand what makes spells better?
First, it's now a sorcery instead of an instant. Second, it doesn't remove time counters for draws during your draw step, which even if it was still an instant, makes it strictly worse.
My art blog
Claims:
The kicker variant in WWK will be "Kicker without a kicked effect." - proven wrong Jan 2010 : 2 wrongs
Decks:
:symu::symb: Bloodchief Ascension - Modern
:symb::symr: Rakdos, the Defiler - EDH
:symu::symb::symw: Sharuum the Hegemon - EDH
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter - EDH
It lets you draw cards during your draw step now, if I'm reading it correctly. The other one did not. So...
Sorcery speed... didn't notice, to be honest. Sorry.
Edit: I also know nothing about Magic.