Welcome to the thread for the third and final set of Aegis Block, Apocrypha! Discussion for the first set, Aegis, is here, and the second set, Pax Reproba, is here. Spoilers are also viewable through the AEGen site designed by flappy. Aegis Spoiler Pax Reproba Spoiler
The Kaemirian Empire Colors: :symw::symu::sym2b: Races/Classes: Human, Griffin, Soldier, Knight, Advisor, Citizen, Archer, Rogue, Assassin, Scout
Weight in the set: ~30% Description: Roman-like empire in a period of expansion.
Kaemir, the jewel of cities, is bathed by the fresh waters of the river Narimin, and lies under the shade of mount Turon. Legend tells that it was founded by the brave Nerissus, son of Deonar (the all-father, lord of the skies) and Alinmara (the fairest nymph that was ever born under the sun), in the place where he tamed his griffin Glaudsen.
A few centuries ago, as the city became prosper, it started an expansion policy that led to its control over the whole Irgasian peninsula, and further beyond.
The city of Kaemir is ruled by a senate, but the empire is ruled by an imperator, who is the military commander and has a permanent seat in the senate.
The Kaemirians have a powerful army, but the main reason behind their might lies in their griffin-riding knights. A single knight is worth fifty soldiers in battle, and worth much more for keeping the peace, as even the most remote outpost of the empire are only a day's flight away.
Kaemirians are remarkable builders, with aqueducts bringing water and roads paving the way for every city in the empire.
Important cities in the empire include:
- Lilenor - the capital of a small island of the same name, just to the southeast of Kaemir, is an important trade port between Kaemir and the southern islands. It was once a powerful state with Minotaurs as revered rulers, but most Minotaurs were slained during the war with the Cyclops two century ago, which left the state severely weakened. So, when the Kaemirians came, two score years ago, the city accepted their rule without much struggle. Today there are only a handful of Minotaurs in the island, and another handful scattered throughout the Kaemirian cities.
- Niemar - the city of light was once a powerful city-state which controlled the trade from all Southern Alisia to the eastern continent Ornella. As Kaemir began to grow in power, the two cities became rivals, and eventually war broke out between the two. After a long attrition war and a siege of two years, Niemar finally fell and became a protectorate of Kaemir. While the Niemarin royal family was slain, the people of the city were allowed to live under Kaemirian rule, and many Niemarin soldiers later joined the Kaemirian legions.
- Tirion - is the most important city the Kaemirians control in the Arezian peninsula. Although independent, it was under indirect control of Xyanthos, so the Kaemirian conquest opened a certain enmity between Kaemir and Xyanthos. Exclusive mechanic: Formation
The Marvindul Colors: :symr::symg::sym2b: Races/Classes: Human, Wolf, Warrior, Druid, Barbarian, Berserker, Mercenary Weight in the set: ~30% Description: Celtic and druidic culture in conflict with the Kaemirian empire
North of Irgasian peninsula, dwell the Marvindul people, which constitute the main etnic and cultural group in the continent Alisia.
They are not a single unit, but rather a group of independent tribes of 50-100 individuals, which occasionally battle amongs each other when competing for resources. Each tribe is ruled by a warrior chief, but even he bows to the tribe's elder druid - the spiritual leader of the people.
The druids are precisely the link that unites the Marvindul people, as they all meet once each year, under the supreme hireophant, to take counsel from each other, and to decide how best to rule their tribes and how to rule their people.
The coming of the Kaemirians has lead the druids to rally their tribes to unite in combat against these southern oppressors. And while the Marvindul warriors fear the Kaemirian griffins, so do the Kaemirian soldiers fear the powers of the Druids over nature and the weather, and fear the wolves that usually fight for them.
The Marvindul build only wooden settlements, and small villages. Most are farmers or sheepherders, but there are also many hunters among them. Exclusive mechanic: Battlestorm
The Nessians Colors: :symg::symw: Races/Classes: Centaur, Warrior, Scout, Archer, Shaman Weight in the set: ~12% Description: A race of centaurs in a southern island, in peace with the Kaemirians and with little or no contact with the Marvindul.
The island of Vessalia, home of the Nessian people, lies four hours southwest of Kaemir, as the griffin flies (more than a day as a ship sails). Two score leagues it spans in longitude, and five leagues in latitude, and every acre covered by thick forest.
The Nessians are a proud, old and wise people, who live in harmony with nature. They are peaceful and hard to anger, but fierce fighters when angered, especially when defending their sacred woods.
They are at peace with the Kaemirians, who hold them in awe, for they are children of the goddess Nessia, daughter of Avannia, the mother earth.
They hate cyclops above all else, and have played an important role in helping the Lilenorians in the war against them.
Xyanthos, City of Magic Colors: :symu::symr: Races/Classes: Human, Elemental, Wizard, Mystic, Artificer, Pirate Weight in the set: ~6% Description: A city-state ruled by a wizard council, which dominates directly or indirectly most of the Arezian Peninsula.
West of Kaemir, in the Arezian Peninsula, lies the city of Xyanthos.
Xyanthos is a city of magic, ruled by a council of wizards and witches, and centered around an academy where the magical arts are tought.
Many of the most powerful wizards can claim a divine ascendency, as the city was founded by a coallition of demigods (elementals) fifteen centuries ago.
Their magical powers include pyromancy, telekinesis, telepathy, divination and in rarer cases, chronomancy.
The city of Xyanthos controls, directly or indirectly, most of the Arezian Peninsula, and the whole Morgren island. The sailors' city of Tallinur, whose population is mostly dedicated to maritime commerce (or occasionally piracy), owes allegiance to Xyanthos, and has always an archmage present to serve as counselor to the king.
Although the relationships between Kaemir and Xyanthos can't be described as friendly, they are not open enemies either, mostly because they see a more dangerous common enemy in the Marvindul. The Xyanthos mages both fear and hate the Marvindul druids.
Avelion, the Sunken City Colors: :symu::symb: Races/Classes: Merfolk, Whale, Rogue, Assassin, Wizard Weight in the set: ~6% Description: An undewater city, home to the merfolk race
Legends tell of the first city in Aegea, Avelion, and of how it was taken by the Laemin sea, like most of the continent Euferia, many many ages ago. Whether this is only myth or has some truth, no one knows, but it is said that the merfolk are direct descendents of the people of Avelion.
Merfolk are rare, but mischievous and malicious enough to be feared by all sailors, despite their small number. The mermaids are known to lure sailors into the ocean with their singing and leading them to drown, whereas the tritons have the sport of sinking ships with their great whales.
Little is know of the habits of this people, but it is certain that they feel nothing but spite for the earth-bound peoples.
Nurgren, Island of Horror Color: :symb::symr: Races/Classes: Cyclops, Warrior, Shaman Weight in the set: ~6% Description: An island of cyclops to the far southeast. Occasionally banished cyclops come to the mainland and wreak havoc.
The small island of Nurgren lies somewhere to the southeast of Kaemir. Its location is uncertain for few who have gone there came back to tell their tale. As it happens, the island is exclusively inhabited by cyclops, and those brute, vicious and beligerant one-eyed giants don't take kindly to visitors.
Occasionally, a cyclops is banished from the island and reaches the Irgasian peninsula. It usually takes a centurie of Kaemirians to deal with the fiend.
Fortunately, the number of cyclops was severely reduced in the war with Lilenor, so Cyclop appearences in the continent have become very rare.
Mirambar, the Sacred City Colors: :symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Races/Classes: Human, Cleric Weight in the set: ~5% Description: A semi-independent religious center, with the main temples for each deity in the pantheon of the southern religion.
Mirambar is the religious center of all southern Alisia, from Xyanthos to Niemar and beyond, as there are located the chief temples to every deity in the pantheon (all peoples of the South share the same religion) except for Nessia (whose chief temple is located in Vessalia).
Although the city is located within the Kaemirian Empire, it is semi-independent, and the internal affairs of the city are ruled by the supreme Psychopomp.
Despite the proximity to the lands of the Marvindul, who have a different religion, Mirambar has always been safe from raids, for the Marvindul fear the weird southern gods.
Muses (Spirits) - :symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: - These rare and fickle spirits give blessings to those who seek them. There are only five of them, and no one knows where they can be found. Giants - :symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: - Contrary to the cyclops, giants aren't usually vicious. That however doesn't mean it is safe to approach them, for they are known for their fits of violence. They are not great in number, and most of them dwell in the Karpasian mountains, that separate the Alisian continent. A few have been known to side with the Marvindul, and others are friendly with the Kaemirians, but mostly, they are for none but themselves. Griffins - - Griffins are fairly common in the mountains around Kaemir, although taming them is no easy task. Nymphs - - Nymphs are mischievous beings who like to take advantage of their natural powers of seduction to allure and mislead those who travel through their lands. They are rarer than dryads, and dwell typically in hidden lakes or rivers, within forested areas. Harpies - - Harpies dwell in the far away island of Ruhr Illith, which is fortunate, for they are cruel and plain evil. They occasionally organize raids to their neighbouring islands, but are only very seldomly seen in the main continent. The last time someone got the better of the Harpies was when the brave Nerissus gathered an army of griffin-riding heroes to battle the invading Harpy armies, many centuries ago. Minotaurs - - Only a few minotaurs have survived the war with the cyclops. Some still dwell in Lilenor, and others are scattered throughout the Kaemirian Empire. They are a passionate and fierce race, but their decay has deflated significantly their pride. Dryads - - Common in most forested areas, dryads are solitary creatures, which shun most humanoids. However, they are friendly with the centaurs, and have been known to ally with them in cases of war. They are vicious defenders of their woodlands. Note: All creature types not present here can appear in the set but only as a one of - this includes Sphinx, Phoenix, Gorgon, etc... Weight in the set: ~5%
Deonar - the all-father, lord of the skies and of the weather, chief of the pantheon - :symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Avannia - the mother-earth and goddess of nature and fertility, wife of Deonar - Senusil - the cunning, god of wisdom and knowledge - Nemerion - god of death - Lainara - goddess of health, child of Deonar and Avannia, and wife of Nemerion - Asfaloth - god of war - Tessania - goddess of the oceans, sister of Avannia - :symg::symu::sym2b: Allyra - goddess of love, passion and pleasure - :sym2b::symr::symw: Nessia - goddess of the hunt, daughter of Avannia and mother of the centaur race -
Map Here
(it corresponds to about 1/3 of the surface of the Aegean plane, or alternatively the plane is very small)
Set Themes:
Combat matters theme
Legends/Heroes theme (mostly mulicolor)
Fortifications
Involvement of the gods (namely with big mana spells)
Mechanics:
All core set abilities (protection, shroud, deathtouch, etc).
Multicolor (two colored?) - for legends only
Fortifications
Grandeur
Experience N (Whenever this creature deals combat damage, put N experience counters on it.)
Battlestorm (When you play this spell, copy it for each creature that attacked this turn. You may choose new targets for the copies.)
Formation (If this creature would be dealt combat damage, instead you may have that damage dealt to any number of creatures with formation you control, divided as you choose.)
Awe (When this blocks or becomes blocked by a creature without Awe, that creature loses all abilities until end of combat.)
I just copied the (outdated) Pax numbers and card codes, that can certainly be changed as we like.
Some suggested themes so far have been:
Leaves the battlefield effects
Abilities that key off what is in the graveyard
Survivor theme for creatures that make it through combat
Experience creatures that transfer skill counters when they die
Degradation of skill counters
Vanilla creatures, many tokens
Return of Threshold or Haunt?
Feel free to suggest more ideas for general themes, and rounds. We will be opening design with open rounds that might suggest areas we would like to focus on later.
Other suggestions were:
- Skill counters are sometimes seen as something negative.
- Creatures without abilities rule, need moar tokens.
- The return of Treshold and/or Haunt. Especially Haunt holds a treasure cave filled with design space. Example: Lost Soul1W
Creature - Spirit
Flying, Haunt
Haunted creature has flying.
1/1
Here is an attempt to relate some of the mechanics and the story: Aegis
Deonar and the other gods of the Southern Pantheon derive their power from mana bonds with people. In return, they keep the climate warm and allow their people to flourish. Wishing for ever more power, they encourage the people under their control (Kaemirians) to dominate and convert the people who aren't (Marvindul). The gods bestow the Aegis on the Aeronus, allowing him to succeed in at least militarily dominating them.
--Formation - Shared mana bonds allow the Kaemirians to coordinate and share their pain.
--Battlestorm - The Marvindul are capable of using their own mana generation to strengthen communal spells.
Pax Reproba
A period of uneasy peace is broken by numerous rebellions, led by beings with conflicting mana bonds (the enemy color legends, except Kiloah who keeps the secrets of the gods). The former enemy armies have been somewhat integrated, but Ivar and others begin to suspect the true nature of the gods.
--Formation and Battlestorm color bleed - Integration of the armies
--Brawl - Spellcasting can be facilitated or impeded by strong emotion.
--Urge - The gods take advantage of their direct mana bonds. Ivar and others (Aeronus, Sena?) begin to understand their methods.
--Tapped/Untapped - The emotional state of animate beings is important to the workings of magic in this world.
Apocrypha
Ivar obtains knowledge to cut the mana bonds of the Southern Pantheon, hoping to use them himself. He strikes as the Four Heretics reach Mirambar, greatly reducing the ability of the Southern Pantheon to protect itself. The city is sacked and chaos spreads through the ruins of the empire, along with wild weather and a rapid cooling caused by the gods' loss of control.
--Leaves play effects - The population is rapidly declining, their mana bonds released as they die.
--Mana causing problems?
--Weird new idea - creatures that die come back as morphs?
I mean, the first thing that we need to discuss is how Apocrypha fits into the set.
-Is it the third and final block of Aegea? (Like Kamigawa)
-Is it the third block that opens the door for a second block? (Oddessey and Onslaught)
-Is it is more like Shadowmoor? (Self explantory)
-Or maybe the Rise of Eldrazi
Two of the options means it it a big set. The other two mean it is a small set.
Two of them end the Aegea block. Two other of them demand one/three more sets.
We did bring up the possibility of cutting here into a Shadowmoor style big little big little block. I'm actually kind of in favor of that, but there seems to be some belief that we should finish out a traditional three set block here.
I'd really like to start fresh on whatever block we do next.
I'd like to have a traditional 3 sets block, but I'm fine with any result really.
What about having q as a mechanic here, it plays well with the theme of the last set and can be interpreted as in the Apocrypha Aegis you have to be alert at all moments.
Lost One (If this perm would be put into a graveyard from the battlefield, put a 2/2 colorless Spirit creature token into the battlefield.)
At some point we were talking about the world being overrun with the dead souls of people as the god of death lost control over the underworld. (Also, I've been trying to get 2/2 colorless Spirits into this block since forever ;)). Also, I put "permanent" instead of creature in case we can think of weird tricks to do with that. Maybe they'd be too weird though.
Another keyword that, I think, needs to come back is convoke. This is mostly flavor reasons, but it would play into the tapped/untapped theme from Pax. The flavor would be that these creatures are allowing themselves to be temporarily manabound to something else (and we get a great visual representation of that as they bow down/get tapped).
Thoughts?
Speaking of thoughts: I vote for this being set 3 of 3. I don't like the idea of q (I would have been game if we did it last set though).
--
Convoke is a little late to the party. Everything is dying, surviving, dead or exiled. And there comes convoke to tap into the tapped matters flavor. No, we've been there, done that. Tapped matters is gone, now "survival matters" or "abilities matter" or something like that is the new flow. Let's come up with something that works with the graveyard.
Lost One, however, is a terrible mechanic, because it is too narrow. There's one and only one effect when this happens, you get a 2/2 colorless spirit token. There's no room for design space. Variations are possible using an ability word:
Lost -- When ~ is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, put a 2/2 colorless spirit onto the battlefield.
Death PingR
~ deals two damage to target creature. Lost Soul -- If that creature is put into a graveyard, ~ deals two damage to it's controller.
Your version is a just too narrow. After three cards we are done with it. Also, these cards can just as well not be keyworded.
On the set: I partly agree with GM on the LorSha type, but I think we are just delaying the problem. It's hard to finish the block, so we just delay the finish? Let us finish a normal 3-setter and be very very proud.
Convoke is a little late to the party. Everything is dying, surviving, dead or exiled. And there comes convoke to tap into the tapped matters flavor. No, we've been there, done that. Tapped matters is gone, now "survival matters" or "abilities matter" or something like that is the new flow. Let's come up with something that works with the graveyard.
Still like it for the flavor reasons mention above.
Quote from flappy »
Lost One, however, is a terrible mechanic, because it is too narrow. There's one and only one effect when this happens, you get a 2/2 colorless spirit token. There's no room for design space. Variations are possible using an ability word
An ability word would prob be better (or just a repeating mechanic). I don't know about terrible though. It's an easy way to play with tokens at the same time as caring about going to the graveyard. Again, I like it mostly for the flavor reasons.
--
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Listen to my M:tG flavor Podcast: Story Circle! (Newest episode is all about Innistrad previews.)
Hunter's Instict
:2mana::symg::symg: (Uncommon)
Target creature gets +2/+2 until end of turn. If it is attacking creature, it gets +4/+4 instead. If it is green attacking creature, it gets +6/+6 and you may put two +1/+1 counters on thet creature instead.
Barbarien's Fury
:2mana::symr::symr: (Uncommon)
Target creature gets +3/+0 and gains first strike until end of turn. If it is attacking creature, it gets +4/+0 and gains first strike instead. If it is red attacking creature, it gets +5/+0 instead and it deals damage equal to its power to target creature or player.
Notes from the Chat:
- Formation and Battlestorm become almost extinct, but we'll get some for a last encore.
- Ivar cuts the mana bonds. The Gods lose their grip, and become mortal or send their Incarnations.
- We need a mythic fortification: the Library
Another mechanic thought is something like a reverse of Recover.
Vicious X (When a creature is put into an opponent's graveyard from the battlefield, you may pay X. If you do, return this card from your graveyard to your hand.)
People didn't much like the fact that it got exiled if you didn't use it, so we thought we might drop it and just up the cost a little.
I also threw some ideas for the plotline of Apocrypha in to the old storyline thread. Just a starting point for ideas.
Kind of slightly unrelated question, but can we start the next block while Apocrypha is still being developped?
I want to know because I don't really want to start work on Apocrypha, yet I still want to participate in a community set. If not then I will provide some input for Apocrypha.
I'm pretty sure we want to hold off on any more sets in this format until we finish up this block. Everybody has exciting ideas for more blocks, though, it should be fun to piece together a new world together when we finish this. Lots of good stuff to come from Apocrypha, though, definitely feel free to jump in!
I'd love to try hop back on board with the design of this final set. I had a lot of fun submitting and brainstorming for Aegea, and then life took over and I could only casually check in and watch the progress of Pax Reproba. So, count me in.
With that said, I think it might be a good idea to explore some of the design space of the "untap" mechanic. After all if we're still focusing on experience, etc., it seems like a logical progression. It's the sort of mechanic that is interesting in our theme, and fits well as a brief exploration for a third set of a block. I think this idea was thrown out earlier in the thread, but I, for one, would really push for its inclusion.
Edit: Just had an idea for a mechanic for the set. Please note, the name is merely a placeholder and I'm not sure the wording is 100% accurate, but I think you can get the idea of the effect I'm going for.
Battlehardened -- If this entered combat during your last turn, [effect]
This could translate to giving it an activated ability, p/t boost, etc.
Example:
Hardy SoldierWW
Creature - Human Soldier
Vigilance Battlehardened -- If this entered combat during your last turn, it gets +1/+0 and has first strike.
2/2
That's just some rough thinking, but I it could be cool to explore. Not sure if it steps on the toes of the way the experience mechanic fucntions or not.
That is a pretty cool idea, but you're probably right in pointing out that it is too close to experience. We will have a few more experience guys, though, maybe a possible direction for them would be having an ability with just two counters, representing how desperate people are, or something.
I actually like that a lot, Pasta. Really drives home the "survivor" feel (since you want it to surive combat to get rewarded).
This brings up something that I talked about to prob an annoying degree yesterday in chat. I want to repeat it here so everyone can keep it in mind when we start to submit card designs soon.
First a brief history:
Aegis: Combat-matters
Subthemes: Legendary-experience
No abilities matters
Flavor: Romans fighting Celts and building an empire
Pax: Tapped/untapped matters
Subthemes: Combat matters
No abilities matter
Experience-legendary
Flavor: The empire tries to keep its conqured nations in check
Apoc: Killing matters
Subthemes: Combat matters
???
???
Flavor: Try to survive the fall of the empire, religious strife, and maybe the end of the world
Notice that I didn't write the theme was leaving the battlefield. I think that would be a poor choice for the set's theme because it's something that players don't like to do. It's not fun to have your creatures die. Some players don't mind if their creatures die (I'm looking at you black and red mages), but given the choice, pretty much everyone would rather have a cool creature on the battlefield than in the graveyard.
Maro wrote a great article about why the Odyssey block failed. His theory was that he decided to challenge himself to make a block that encouraged people to kill/discard their cards. They found out that, while some people liked the dissonance of finding ways to make something that is usually bad into something good (I'm looking at you, Johnnies), the great majority of people, not surprisingly, don't like to do things they don't like to do.
The lesson for us is don't make sets based on things people don't like to do.
But, you might say, the leaves the battlefield theme fits so perfectly into the flavor of the plot so well. I would then ask, how so? Dying is as far away from surviving as you can get. But everyone else around them is dying. Yeah, but we're not everyone else, we're us and we want to survive the apocalypse Ivar unleashed, not watch our armies of fantasy Romans and Celts die and then get rewarded for watching them go.
Ok, so you're sold, right? But then you might ask what's the difference between leaving the battlefield and making other stuff leave the battlefield? Answer: not too much semantically, but a lot in design.
Example: Survivor 2W
Creature--Human Soldier
When ~ LTB, gain 4 life.
2/2
vs.
Survivor 2W
Creature--Human Soldier
At the beginning of the end step, if ~ dealt lethal combat damage, gain 2 life.
2/2
One rewards you for killing it (something you normally wouldn't want to do) and makes your opponents less happy about getting into combat with it (hurting our block theme!) while the second rewards you for killing other creatures (something everyone loves to do).
So, sure we can have a few cards that reward you for saccing them or watching them hit the graveyard (in red and sometimes black), but the majority of our themed cards should care about sending other things to the 'yard.
tt;dr? Let's alter our theme a bit so that people will have fun playing it.
--
Dodavehu, I really don't like the fact you keep reasoning in circles.
Mechanic A is worse than mechanic B, yet you keep propagating mechanic A as the best thing in the world.
Killing matters in every single set. Just like evasion matters. The two things any good limited deck does is: a lot of removal, and a lot of evasion. Your creatures do the work, while you kill all that stand in the way.
So, I will repeat one last time why I think "Killing Matters" is not what we are looking for.
- "Killing Matters" is narrower than "Dying Matters", which is narrower than "Leave the Battlefield". Something that is killed, dies. Something that dies leaves the battlefield. But that doesn't go the other way around. So once again, I will state that starting off more generic is a good thing. Remember the time you wanted "Blocking Matters" to be the focus of Pax? Or when Lorgalis wanted Brawl to only work on "Creatures that attack you".
- It's complementary to the other focus, survival. What is a hero without a villain that wants the exact opposite? If we want to focus on things survive, we also need things that die.
- People don't like their stuff getting killed, but it'll die anyways! It's the combat matters set! So let's give them some sort of comfort, compensation for the fact something died. Also, we can have creatures go berserk when their friend dies. So, I'm not saying that we should make a mechanic that wants things to die! We want to make people more comfortable with things dying instead!
I agree with you Doda, I think leaving the battlefield as a theme does not serve the purpose of this block very well, and also that people don't like losing their creatures for effects. However, if we spin it, as you have, with dealing lethal damage, or some other such condition, I think it could be cool. What if we fused your idea with my former mechanic idea and have something like this (once again, working name):
Battlehardened -- At the beginning of the end step,If this dealt lethal combat damage, [effect]
Welcome to the thread for the third and final set of Aegis Block, Apocrypha! Discussion for the first set, Aegis, is here, and the second set, Pax Reproba, is here. Spoilers are also viewable through the AEGen site designed by flappy.
Aegis Spoiler
Pax Reproba Spoiler
The Kaemirian Empire
Colors: :symw::symu::sym2b:
Races/Classes: Human, Griffin, Soldier, Knight, Advisor, Citizen, Archer, Rogue, Assassin, Scout
Weight in the set: ~30%
Description: Roman-like empire in a period of expansion.
A few centuries ago, as the city became prosper, it started an expansion policy that led to its control over the whole Irgasian peninsula, and further beyond.
The city of Kaemir is ruled by a senate, but the empire is ruled by an imperator, who is the military commander and has a permanent seat in the senate.
The Kaemirians have a powerful army, but the main reason behind their might lies in their griffin-riding knights. A single knight is worth fifty soldiers in battle, and worth much more for keeping the peace, as even the most remote outpost of the empire are only a day's flight away.
Kaemirians are remarkable builders, with aqueducts bringing water and roads paving the way for every city in the empire.
Important cities in the empire include:
- Lilenor - the capital of a small island of the same name, just to the southeast of Kaemir, is an important trade port between Kaemir and the southern islands. It was once a powerful state with Minotaurs as revered rulers, but most Minotaurs were slained during the war with the Cyclops two century ago, which left the state severely weakened. So, when the Kaemirians came, two score years ago, the city accepted their rule without much struggle. Today there are only a handful of Minotaurs in the island, and another handful scattered throughout the Kaemirian cities.
- Niemar - the city of light was once a powerful city-state which controlled the trade from all Southern Alisia to the eastern continent Ornella. As Kaemir began to grow in power, the two cities became rivals, and eventually war broke out between the two. After a long attrition war and a siege of two years, Niemar finally fell and became a protectorate of Kaemir. While the Niemarin royal family was slain, the people of the city were allowed to live under Kaemirian rule, and many Niemarin soldiers later joined the Kaemirian legions.
- Tirion - is the most important city the Kaemirians control in the Arezian peninsula. Although independent, it was under indirect control of Xyanthos, so the Kaemirian conquest opened a certain enmity between Kaemir and Xyanthos.
Exclusive mechanic: Formation
Colors: :symr::symg::sym2b:
Races/Classes: Human, Wolf, Warrior, Druid, Barbarian, Berserker, Mercenary
Weight in the set: ~30%
Description: Celtic and druidic culture in conflict with the Kaemirian empire
They are not a single unit, but rather a group of independent tribes of 50-100 individuals, which occasionally battle amongs each other when competing for resources. Each tribe is ruled by a warrior chief, but even he bows to the tribe's elder druid - the spiritual leader of the people.
The druids are precisely the link that unites the Marvindul people, as they all meet once each year, under the supreme hireophant, to take counsel from each other, and to decide how best to rule their tribes and how to rule their people.
The coming of the Kaemirians has lead the druids to rally their tribes to unite in combat against these southern oppressors. And while the Marvindul warriors fear the Kaemirian griffins, so do the Kaemirian soldiers fear the powers of the Druids over nature and the weather, and fear the wolves that usually fight for them.
The Marvindul build only wooden settlements, and small villages. Most are farmers or sheepherders, but there are also many hunters among them.
Exclusive mechanic: Battlestorm
Colors: :symg::symw:
Races/Classes: Centaur, Warrior, Scout, Archer, Shaman
Weight in the set: ~12%
Description: A race of centaurs in a southern island, in peace with the Kaemirians and with little or no contact with the Marvindul.
The Nessians are a proud, old and wise people, who live in harmony with nature. They are peaceful and hard to anger, but fierce fighters when angered, especially when defending their sacred woods.
They are at peace with the Kaemirians, who hold them in awe, for they are children of the goddess Nessia, daughter of Avannia, the mother earth.
They hate cyclops above all else, and have played an important role in helping the Lilenorians in the war against them.
Colors: :symu::symr:
Races/Classes: Human, Elemental, Wizard, Mystic, Artificer, Pirate
Weight in the set: ~6%
Description: A city-state ruled by a wizard council, which dominates directly or indirectly most of the Arezian Peninsula.
Xyanthos is a city of magic, ruled by a council of wizards and witches, and centered around an academy where the magical arts are tought.
Many of the most powerful wizards can claim a divine ascendency, as the city was founded by a coallition of demigods (elementals) fifteen centuries ago.
Their magical powers include pyromancy, telekinesis, telepathy, divination and in rarer cases, chronomancy.
The city of Xyanthos controls, directly or indirectly, most of the Arezian Peninsula, and the whole Morgren island. The sailors' city of Tallinur, whose population is mostly dedicated to maritime commerce (or occasionally piracy), owes allegiance to Xyanthos, and has always an archmage present to serve as counselor to the king.
Although the relationships between Kaemir and Xyanthos can't be described as friendly, they are not open enemies either, mostly because they see a more dangerous common enemy in the Marvindul. The Xyanthos mages both fear and hate the Marvindul druids.
Colors: :symu::symb:
Races/Classes: Merfolk, Whale, Rogue, Assassin, Wizard
Weight in the set: ~6%
Description: An undewater city, home to the merfolk race
Merfolk are rare, but mischievous and malicious enough to be feared by all sailors, despite their small number. The mermaids are known to lure sailors into the ocean with their singing and leading them to drown, whereas the tritons have the sport of sinking ships with their great whales.
Little is know of the habits of this people, but it is certain that they feel nothing but spite for the earth-bound peoples.
Color: :symb::symr:
Races/Classes: Cyclops, Warrior, Shaman
Weight in the set: ~6%
Description: An island of cyclops to the far southeast. Occasionally banished cyclops come to the mainland and wreak havoc.
Occasionally, a cyclops is banished from the island and reaches the Irgasian peninsula. It usually takes a centurie of Kaemirians to deal with the fiend.
Fortunately, the number of cyclops was severely reduced in the war with Lilenor, so Cyclop appearences in the continent have become very rare.
Colors: :symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:
Races/Classes: Human, Cleric
Weight in the set: ~5%
Description: A semi-independent religious center, with the main temples for each deity in the pantheon of the southern religion.
Although the city is located within the Kaemirian Empire, it is semi-independent, and the internal affairs of the city are ruled by the supreme Psychopomp.
Despite the proximity to the lands of the Marvindul, who have a different religion, Mirambar has always been safe from raids, for the Marvindul fear the weird southern gods.
Muses (Spirits) - :symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: - These rare and fickle spirits give blessings to those who seek them. There are only five of them, and no one knows where they can be found.
Giants - :symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: - Contrary to the cyclops, giants aren't usually vicious. That however doesn't mean it is safe to approach them, for they are known for their fits of violence. They are not great in number, and most of them dwell in the Karpasian mountains, that separate the Alisian continent. A few have been known to side with the Marvindul, and others are friendly with the Kaemirians, but mostly, they are for none but themselves.
Griffins - - Griffins are fairly common in the mountains around Kaemir, although taming them is no easy task.
Nymphs - - Nymphs are mischievous beings who like to take advantage of their natural powers of seduction to allure and mislead those who travel through their lands. They are rarer than dryads, and dwell typically in hidden lakes or rivers, within forested areas.
Harpies - - Harpies dwell in the far away island of Ruhr Illith, which is fortunate, for they are cruel and plain evil. They occasionally organize raids to their neighbouring islands, but are only very seldomly seen in the main continent. The last time someone got the better of the Harpies was when the brave Nerissus gathered an army of griffin-riding heroes to battle the invading Harpy armies, many centuries ago.
Minotaurs - - Only a few minotaurs have survived the war with the cyclops. Some still dwell in Lilenor, and others are scattered throughout the Kaemirian Empire. They are a passionate and fierce race, but their decay has deflated significantly their pride.
Dryads - - Common in most forested areas, dryads are solitary creatures, which shun most humanoids. However, they are friendly with the centaurs, and have been known to ally with them in cases of war. They are vicious defenders of their woodlands.
Note: All creature types not present here can appear in the set but only as a one of - this includes Sphinx, Phoenix, Gorgon, etc...
Weight in the set: ~5%
Deonar - the all-father, lord of the skies and of the weather, chief of the pantheon - :symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:
Avannia - the mother-earth and goddess of nature and fertility, wife of Deonar -
Senusil - the cunning, god of wisdom and knowledge -
Nemerion - god of death -
Lainara - goddess of health, child of Deonar and Avannia, and wife of Nemerion -
Asfaloth - god of war -
Tessania - goddess of the oceans, sister of Avannia - :symg::symu::sym2b:
Allyra - goddess of love, passion and pleasure - :sym2b::symr::symw:
Nessia - goddess of the hunt, daughter of Avannia and mother of the centaur race -
(it corresponds to about 1/3 of the surface of the Aegean plane, or alternatively the plane is very small)
Characters:
- Aeronus, Imperator of Kaemir, by mysticspeculation
- A'garom, Caller of Heroes, by seratonin
- Ciara, The Supreme Hierophant, by mysticspeculation
- Ivar, Masked Pretender, by mysticspeculation
Others:
- Marvindul religion, by mysticspeculation
Set Themes:
Combat matters theme
Legends/Heroes theme (mostly mulicolor)
Fortifications
Involvement of the gods (namely with big mana spells)
Mechanics:
All core set abilities (protection, shroud, deathtouch, etc).
Multicolor (two colored?) - for legends only
Fortifications
Grandeur
Experience N (Whenever this creature deals combat damage, put N experience counters on it.)
Battlestorm (When you play this spell, copy it for each creature that attacked this turn. You may choose new targets for the copies.)
Formation (If this creature would be dealt combat damage, instead you may have that damage dealt to any number of creatures with formation you control, divided as you choose.)
Awe (When this blocks or becomes blocked by a creature without Awe, that creature loses all abilities until end of combat.)
Total cards: 145
Common: 60
Uncommon: 40
Rare: 35
Mythic: 10
Each color:
Common: 10
Uncommon: 6
Rare: 5
Mythic: 1
Multicolor:
Rare: 5
Mythic: 2?
Artifacts:
Common: 8
Uncommon: 8
Rare: 5
Mythic: 3?
Lands:
Common: 2
Uncommon: 2
Rare: 0
Some suggested themes so far have been:
- Skill counters are sometimes seen as something negative.
- Creatures without abilities rule, need moar tokens.
- The return of Treshold and/or Haunt. Especially Haunt holds a treasure cave filled with design space. Example:
Lost Soul 1W
Creature - Spirit
Flying, Haunt
Haunted creature has flying.
1/1
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Aegis
Deonar and the other gods of the Southern Pantheon derive their power from mana bonds with people. In return, they keep the climate warm and allow their people to flourish. Wishing for ever more power, they encourage the people under their control (Kaemirians) to dominate and convert the people who aren't (Marvindul). The gods bestow the Aegis on the Aeronus, allowing him to succeed in at least militarily dominating them.
--Formation - Shared mana bonds allow the Kaemirians to coordinate and share their pain.
--Battlestorm - The Marvindul are capable of using their own mana generation to strengthen communal spells.
Pax Reproba
A period of uneasy peace is broken by numerous rebellions, led by beings with conflicting mana bonds (the enemy color legends, except Kiloah who keeps the secrets of the gods). The former enemy armies have been somewhat integrated, but Ivar and others begin to suspect the true nature of the gods.
--Formation and Battlestorm color bleed - Integration of the armies
--Brawl - Spellcasting can be facilitated or impeded by strong emotion.
--Urge - The gods take advantage of their direct mana bonds. Ivar and others (Aeronus, Sena?) begin to understand their methods.
--Tapped/Untapped - The emotional state of animate beings is important to the workings of magic in this world.
Apocrypha
Ivar obtains knowledge to cut the mana bonds of the Southern Pantheon, hoping to use them himself. He strikes as the Four Heretics reach Mirambar, greatly reducing the ability of the Southern Pantheon to protect itself. The city is sacked and chaos spreads through the ruins of the empire, along with wild weather and a rapid cooling caused by the gods' loss of control.
--Leaves play effects - The population is rapidly declining, their mana bonds released as they die.
--Mana causing problems?
--Weird new idea - creatures that die come back as morphs?
-Is it the third and final block of Aegea? (Like Kamigawa)
-Is it the third block that opens the door for a second block? (Oddessey and Onslaught)
-Is it is more like Shadowmoor? (Self explantory)
-Or maybe the Rise of Eldrazi
Two of the options means it it a big set. The other two mean it is a small set.
Two of them end the Aegea block. Two other of them demand one/three more sets.
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I'd really like to start fresh on whatever block we do next.
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What about having q as a mechanic here, it plays well with the theme of the last set and can be interpreted as in the Apocrypha Aegis you have to be alert at all moments.
Lost One (If this perm would be put into a graveyard from the battlefield, put a 2/2 colorless Spirit creature token into the battlefield.)
At some point we were talking about the world being overrun with the dead souls of people as the god of death lost control over the underworld. (Also, I've been trying to get 2/2 colorless Spirits into this block since forever ;)). Also, I put "permanent" instead of creature in case we can think of weird tricks to do with that. Maybe they'd be too weird though.
Another keyword that, I think, needs to come back is convoke. This is mostly flavor reasons, but it would play into the tapped/untapped theme from Pax. The flavor would be that these creatures are allowing themselves to be temporarily manabound to something else (and we get a great visual representation of that as they bow down/get tapped).
Thoughts?
Speaking of thoughts: I vote for this being set 3 of 3. I don't like the idea of q (I would have been game if we did it last set though).
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Convoke is a little late to the party. Everything is dying, surviving, dead or exiled. And there comes convoke to tap into the tapped matters flavor. No, we've been there, done that. Tapped matters is gone, now "survival matters" or "abilities matter" or something like that is the new flow. Let's come up with something that works with the graveyard.
Lost One, however, is a terrible mechanic, because it is too narrow. There's one and only one effect when this happens, you get a 2/2 colorless spirit token. There's no room for design space. Variations are possible using an ability word:
Lost -- When ~ is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, put a 2/2 colorless spirit onto the battlefield.
Death Ping R
~ deals two damage to target creature.
Lost Soul -- If that creature is put into a graveyard, ~ deals two damage to it's controller.
Your version is a just too narrow. After three cards we are done with it. Also, these cards can just as well not be keyworded.
On the set: I partly agree with GM on the LorSha type, but I think we are just delaying the problem. It's hard to finish the block, so we just delay the finish? Let us finish a normal 3-setter and be very very proud.
Still waitin for guests in Chat btw.
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In which room?
#wmts as usual.
Type /join #wmts to join!
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Still like it for the flavor reasons mention above.
An ability word would prob be better (or just a repeating mechanic). I don't know about terrible though. It's an easy way to play with tokens at the same time as caring about going to the graveyard. Again, I like it mostly for the flavor reasons.
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Hunter's Instict
:2mana::symg::symg: (Uncommon)
Target creature gets +2/+2 until end of turn. If it is attacking creature, it gets +4/+4 instead. If it is green attacking creature, it gets +6/+6 and you may put two +1/+1 counters on thet creature instead.
Barbarien's Fury
:2mana::symr::symr: (Uncommon)
Target creature gets +3/+0 and gains first strike until end of turn. If it is attacking creature, it gets +4/+0 and gains first strike instead. If it is red attacking creature, it gets +5/+0 instead and it deals damage equal to its power to target creature or player.
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- Formation and Battlestorm become almost extinct, but we'll get some for a last encore.
- Ivar cuts the mana bonds. The Gods lose their grip, and become mortal or send their Incarnations.
- We need a mythic fortification: the Library
Breakdown
- formation + battlestorm : 5 cards
- fortification: 1
- equipment: 1
- awe: depends
- experience: staple!
Unanimous agreement on the Leaves Play abilities, but no keywords for now.
Discussing about the Death/Survival theme.
Possiblity: Haunt.
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Vicious X (When a creature is put into an opponent's graveyard from the battlefield, you may pay X. If you do, return this card from your graveyard to your hand.)
People didn't much like the fact that it got exiled if you didn't use it, so we thought we might drop it and just up the cost a little.
I also threw some ideas for the plotline of Apocrypha in to the old storyline thread. Just a starting point for ideas.
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I want to know because I don't really want to start work on Apocrypha, yet I still want to participate in a community set. If not then I will provide some input for Apocrypha.
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With that said, I think it might be a good idea to explore some of the design space of the "untap" mechanic. After all if we're still focusing on experience, etc., it seems like a logical progression. It's the sort of mechanic that is interesting in our theme, and fits well as a brief exploration for a third set of a block. I think this idea was thrown out earlier in the thread, but I, for one, would really push for its inclusion.
Edit: Just had an idea for a mechanic for the set. Please note, the name is merely a placeholder and I'm not sure the wording is 100% accurate, but I think you can get the idea of the effect I'm going for.
Battlehardened -- If this entered combat during your last turn, [effect]
This could translate to giving it an activated ability, p/t boost, etc.
Example:
Hardy Soldier WW
Creature - Human Soldier
Vigilance
Battlehardened -- If this entered combat during your last turn, it gets +1/+0 and has first strike.
2/2
That's just some rough thinking, but I it could be cool to explore. Not sure if it steps on the toes of the way the experience mechanic fucntions or not.
This brings up something that I talked about to prob an annoying degree yesterday in chat. I want to repeat it here so everyone can keep it in mind when we start to submit card designs soon.
First a brief history:
Aegis: Combat-matters
Subthemes: Legendary-experience
No abilities matters
Flavor: Romans fighting Celts and building an empire
Pax: Tapped/untapped matters
Subthemes: Combat matters
No abilities matter
Experience-legendary
Flavor: The empire tries to keep its conqured nations in check
Apoc: Killing matters
Subthemes: Combat matters
???
???
Flavor: Try to survive the fall of the empire, religious strife, and maybe the end of the world
Notice that I didn't write the theme was leaving the battlefield. I think that would be a poor choice for the set's theme because it's something that players don't like to do. It's not fun to have your creatures die. Some players don't mind if their creatures die (I'm looking at you black and red mages), but given the choice, pretty much everyone would rather have a cool creature on the battlefield than in the graveyard.
Maro wrote a great article about why the Odyssey block failed. His theory was that he decided to challenge himself to make a block that encouraged people to kill/discard their cards. They found out that, while some people liked the dissonance of finding ways to make something that is usually bad into something good (I'm looking at you, Johnnies), the great majority of people, not surprisingly, don't like to do things they don't like to do.
The lesson for us is don't make sets based on things people don't like to do.
But, you might say, the leaves the battlefield theme fits so perfectly into the flavor of the plot so well. I would then ask, how so? Dying is as far away from surviving as you can get. But everyone else around them is dying. Yeah, but we're not everyone else, we're us and we want to survive the apocalypse Ivar unleashed, not watch our armies of fantasy Romans and Celts die and then get rewarded for watching them go.
Ok, so you're sold, right? But then you might ask what's the difference between leaving the battlefield and making other stuff leave the battlefield? Answer: not too much semantically, but a lot in design.
Example:
Survivor 2W
Creature--Human Soldier
When ~ LTB, gain 4 life.
2/2
vs.
Survivor 2W
Creature--Human Soldier
At the beginning of the end step, if ~ dealt lethal combat damage, gain 2 life.
2/2
One rewards you for killing it (something you normally wouldn't want to do) and makes your opponents less happy about getting into combat with it (hurting our block theme!) while the second rewards you for killing other creatures (something everyone loves to do).
So, sure we can have a few cards that reward you for saccing them or watching them hit the graveyard (in red and sometimes black), but the majority of our themed cards should care about sending other things to the 'yard.
tt;dr? Let's alter our theme a bit so that people will have fun playing it.
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Mechanic A is worse than mechanic B, yet you keep propagating mechanic A as the best thing in the world.
Killing matters in every single set. Just like evasion matters. The two things any good limited deck does is: a lot of removal, and a lot of evasion. Your creatures do the work, while you kill all that stand in the way.
So, I will repeat one last time why I think "Killing Matters" is not what we are looking for.
- "Killing Matters" is narrower than "Dying Matters", which is narrower than "Leave the Battlefield". Something that is killed, dies. Something that dies leaves the battlefield. But that doesn't go the other way around. So once again, I will state that starting off more generic is a good thing. Remember the time you wanted "Blocking Matters" to be the focus of Pax? Or when Lorgalis wanted Brawl to only work on "Creatures that attack you".
- It's complementary to the other focus, survival. What is a hero without a villain that wants the exact opposite? If we want to focus on things survive, we also need things that die.
- People don't like their stuff getting killed, but it'll die anyways! It's the combat matters set! So let's give them some sort of comfort, compensation for the fact something died. Also, we can have creatures go berserk when their friend dies. So, I'm not saying that we should make a mechanic that wants things to die! We want to make people more comfortable with things dying instead!
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Battlehardened -- At the beginning of the end step,If this dealt lethal combat damage, [effect]