Two 1/1's and 1 damage to any target for 1B with flash. And that's just the baseline, any extra cards past the first on each of their turns an opponent draws will grow the token and let you ping again.
Card seems fantastic, definitely including it based on the baseline effect alone.
hell yeah, sweet card. Exactly what aristocrats wants. A potential engine to generate tokens , multiple tokens for baseline and good value.
hitting an elf with this in a deck that can abuse cheap bodies is going to feel disgusting.
So, will this generates 6 1/1s [edit: forgot how amass works, worse but still solid] and pings 6 x 1 damage when I wheel? Pretty spicy.
Outside of wheel synergy this seems fairly solid for providing 2 bodies at instant speed for 2 mana. I look forward to flashing this in against something like a brainstorm.
I think you could remove the flash, amass or ping and I'd still consider it. As is its pretty nuts.
2 cmc black spells have been getting a bit tighter lately but this still feels like a slam dunk.
So, will this generates 6 1/1s and pings 6 x 1 damage when I wheel? Pretty spicy.
No, it puts 7 +1/+1 counters on the army creature token and pings 7 times (amass orcs is like amass from War of the Spark, but with a "orc army" token instead of a "zombie army" one, and the wording is "outside of the first card they draw in each of their draw steps")
The cheapest draw 7 payoff that's also very good on its own. This does a lot for 2 mana: has flash, creates sac fodder, potential payoff for +1/+1 counters matters, hate bear / draw 7 combo piece. I recently added Days Undoing / Wheel of Misfortune to try and bolster Fastbond strategies. Seems like a slam dunk for all sorts of cubes.
2 cc that can potentially be a 3 for 1 is a really great baseline. Flash makes it a decent combat trick that can kill up to an X/3 or up to 3 X/1s.
The card draw trigger can somehow negate the CA with a token and ping, and with flash it can be cast in response to card draw. In play it can even deter card draw spells.
And the cherry in top is to potentially combo with Wheel effects and produce a 7/7 along with 7 dividable damage.
If one dislikes UB, then this us still a valid addition because of the generic flavor.
Wow I missed that it isn't a once per turn effect on first read.
This is actually kind of broken and a mid-high pick.
This is the first draw 7 combo effect that can naturally curve into a draw 7, and is nearly as effective at winning the game as any other of them.
turn 2 flash this in,
turn 3 wheel -> hit the opponent for 16 and have an 1/1 + 8/8 is disgusting.
It's also a 2 mana card that gets plenty of value through removal AND becomes a must answer in a deck with a draw 7.
Being flash allows you to surprise someone on a brain storm or a wheel.
This card is incredible. It's floor is 2 1/1's with flash that get to ping something on the way down, and its ceiling is absurd. Flashing this in in response to a brainstorm, or any draw 2, or even a draw 1, is just great value. Even a draw one nets you a 1/1, a 2/2, and 2 splittable damage. Absurd card and an auto-include.
Wow I missed that it isn't a once per turn effect on first read.
This is actually kind of broken and a mid-high pick.
This is the first draw 7 combo effect that can naturally curve into a draw 7, and is nearly as effective at winning the game as any other of them.
turn 2 flash this in,
turn 3 wheel -> hit the opponent for 16 and have an 1/1 + 8/8 is disgusting.
It's also a 2 mana card that gets plenty of value through removal AND becomes a must answer in a deck with a draw 7.
Being flash allows you to surprise someone on a brain storm or a wheel.
Yah the wheel deck is getting a lot of upgrades. I might add Windfall into my cube now.
I would pay 1B for a 1/1 with flash and an ETB trigger that makes a 1/1 token and deals 1 damage to any target, even with no other text. The extra ability to hate on opponents drawing extra cards is some fantastic gravy. Can't wait to use Orcish Bowmasters in decks with flicker and wheel effects.
Like the original amass, amass Orcs is anti-parasitic (because it works better in an environment containing fewer cards with amass Orcs, so that you're more likely to create a new creature token instead of adding more +1/+1 counters onto an existing Orc Army). Being anti-parasitic makes the mechanic stronger in singleton formats like cube, but doesn't motivate cube builders to include multiple cards with amass Orcs.
I hope they print a version of Orcish Bowmasters with reminder text for what "amass Orcs" does, because I try to keep in mind a new drafter's ability to understand the cube's many many mechanics and this is likely to end up as the only card in my cube with "amass" or "amass Orcs" printed on it.
I would pay 1B for a 1/1 with flash and an ETB trigger that makes a 1/1 token and deals 1 damage to any target, even with no other text. The extra ability to hate on opponents drawing extra cards is some fantastic gravy. Can't wait to use Orcish Bowmasters in decks with flicker and wheel effects.
Like the original amass, amass Orcs is anti-parasitic (because it works better in an environment containing fewer cards with amass Orcs, so that you're more likely to create a new creature token instead of adding more +1/+1 counters onto an existing Orc Army). Being anti-parasitic makes the mechanic stronger in singleton formats like cube, but doesn't motivate cube builders to include multiple cards with amass Orcs.
I hope they print a version of Orcish Bowmasters with reminder text for what "amass Orcs" does, because I try to keep in mind a new drafter's ability to understand the cube's many many mechanics and this is likely to end up as the only card in my cube with "amass" or "amass Orcs" printed on it.
According to Mark Rosewater's tumblr blog, all Amass types together. So Amass Orcs 1 and Amass Zombie 2 gives you a 3/3 Orc Zombie. I believe that goes against what was said earlier though, so I think it remains unclear.
EDIT: actually, the reminder text on the card is pretty clear that it does work that way
Lazotep Reaver was already an underrated card. This is better to an almost ridiculous degree. I'm also pretty happy that is isn't overtly LoTR.
How widely played are Wheel effects? I don't think I've ever had such an effect in a cube. But that has never stopped cards like Narset, Parter of Veils from being sweet. Players like to draw cards.
For those who play power, it'll be a fun time to Ancestral Recall the opponent as a Lightning Bolt for lethal.
I think Lazotep is nice sac fodder but outside of specific themes I felt like it was low impact, so it didn't last. This on the other hand, well ... I think people have already spoken at length about how insane it is so I feel like I have nothing to add to that convo.
I think wheels are pretty popular. Often times the good ones are cost prohibitive to people who are stubborn about proxying (e.g. Me) but I think when they're available and the list has a couple combos floating around, people are likely to include at least a couple.
I think this is just the best cheap black creature (3-cmc and below), and is just straight put up the strongest 2-cmc creature (regardless of color), period. As far as 1-2 cmc creatures goes, I don't think it's crazy to say that only Ragavan / Hexdrinker are above this. There isn't a single creature 1-2 cmc creature that I can think of that can do half the things this can do.
I think this is just the best cheap black creature (3-cmc and below), and is just straight put up the strongest 2-cmc creature (regardless of color), period. As far as 1-2 cmc creatures goes, I don't think it's crazy to say that only Ragavan / Hexdrinker are above this. There isn't a single creature 1-2 cmc creature that I can think of that can do half the things this can do.
Nothing I can say that hasn't already been said about how good this card is, but it's value is pretty matchup dependent and certainly isn't broken most of the time.
Nothing I can say that hasn't already been said about how good this card is, but it's value is pretty matchup dependent and certainly isn't broken most of the time.
I don't think it's THAT matchup dependent. Creature based decks are going to get sniped by this, and unfair decks are going to get their cantrips punished. And you can just combo with this yourself regardless of matchup.
Quote from NotScottMescudi »
If you don't consider the evoke creatures 0 drops, imo that still leaves Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Mother of Runes, Stoneforge Mystic, Snapcaster Mage, Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer, Hexdrinker, pretty much all the green 1-mana dorks, Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary, and even Dark Confidant, Pack Rat, Baleful Strix, Goblin Welder or Kitesail Freebooter if the situation calls for it to be better than this for the decks that run them. I'm pretty sure this is a Resolute Reinforcements with a Gut Shot most of the time, which is great, but I think the praise might be getting a little high lol
Fair points, but consider this:
- As far as hate bears goes, Thalia is, this is symmetrical.
- In terms of value, Stoneforge Mystic has very specific deck / archetype requirements. Snapcaster Mage needs more mana up front.
This is a Gut Shot / combat trick / hate bear / value spell + sac fodder / combo piece all in one spread across two bodies. Other 1-2 cmc spells can play like, two roles tops. This literally does everything while literally being able to kill most of its competition. The floor of Resolute Enforcements + Gut Shot is insane for a 2-cmc creature considering it's GUARANTEED value, potential for a 3 for 1 against another creature, and its insane ceiling. I can see its value going down in more fair environments, but it's still extremely up there even without wheels / Skullclamp / etc.
I think this is just the best cheap black creature (3-cmc and below), and is just straight put up the strongest 2-cmc creature (regardless of color), period. As far as 1-2 cmc creatures goes, I don't think it's crazy to say that only Ragavan / Hexdrinker are above this. There isn't a single creature 1-2 cmc creature that I can think of that can do half the things this can do.
Nothing I can say that hasn't already been said about how good this card is, but it's value is pretty matchup dependent and certainly isn't broken most of the time.
I think this is just the best cheap black creature (3-cmc and below), and is just straight put up the strongest 2-cmc creature (regardless of color), period. As far as 1-2 cmc creatures goes, I don't think it's crazy to say that only Ragavan / Hexdrinker are above this. There isn't a single creature 1-2 cmc creature that I can think of that can do half the things this can do.
Nothing I can say that hasn't already been said about how good this card is, but it's value is pretty matchup dependent and certainly isn't broken most of the time.
The floor of a resolute reinforcements with a gutshot is a pretty amazing floor. In a deck that doesn't leverage the bodies against a deck that doesn't play cheap creatures AND doesn't draw many cards, orcish bowmasters will be meh. But I expect that's way closer to the exception than the rule.
In decks that try to leverage it's ability, there will be many games where it only realizes it's floor. However, it's ceiling is almost splinter twin/pestermite that costs 1 less mana each.
You throw this in a deck with a single draw 7 and it'll range between it's floor and winning the game by itself.
Average that out and that's reallly ****ed up for a 2 mana instant.
I'll go a step further and predict this to be the best p1p1 cheap creature in all of cube (by a small margin, low confidence).
Two 1/1's and 1 damage to any target for 1B with flash. And that's just the baseline, any extra cards past the first on each of their turns an opponent draws will grow the token and let you ping again.
Card seems fantastic, definitely including it based on the baseline effect alone.
hitting an elf with this in a deck that can abuse cheap bodies is going to feel disgusting.
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I didn't realized it triggers multiple times a turn! This is insane.
Outside of wheel synergy this seems fairly solid for providing 2 bodies at instant speed for 2 mana. I look forward to flashing this in against something like a brainstorm.
I think you could remove the flash, amass or ping and I'd still consider it. As is its pretty nuts.
2 cmc black spells have been getting a bit tighter lately but this still feels like a slam dunk.
No, it puts 7 +1/+1 counters on the army creature token and pings 7 times (amass orcs is like amass from War of the Spark, but with a "orc army" token instead of a "zombie army" one, and the wording is "outside of the first card they draw in each of their draw steps")
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The card draw trigger can somehow negate the CA with a token and ping, and with flash it can be cast in response to card draw. In play it can even deter card draw spells.
And the cherry in top is to potentially combo with Wheel effects and produce a 7/7 along with 7 dividable damage.
If one dislikes UB, then this us still a valid addition because of the generic flavor.
This is actually kind of broken and a mid-high pick.
This is the first draw 7 combo effect that can naturally curve into a draw 7, and is nearly as effective at winning the game as any other of them.
turn 2 flash this in,
turn 3 wheel -> hit the opponent for 16 and have an 1/1 + 8/8 is disgusting.
It's also a 2 mana card that gets plenty of value through removal AND becomes a must answer in a deck with a draw 7.
Being flash allows you to surprise someone on a brain storm or a wheel.
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I'd say they definitely will; they made sure to pick a nice generic name that could show up on any plane rather than something like "Uruk-hai Archers"
Or any random X/3. This thing can basically just he a removal spell for 3 toughness or less creatures.
Not a great option, but it's another string to its bow (See what I did there).
Yah the wheel deck is getting a lot of upgrades. I might add Windfall into my cube now.
I would pay 1B for a 1/1 with flash and an ETB trigger that makes a 1/1 token and deals 1 damage to any target, even with no other text. The extra ability to hate on opponents drawing extra cards is some fantastic gravy. Can't wait to use Orcish Bowmasters in decks with flicker and wheel effects.
Like the original amass, amass Orcs is anti-parasitic (because it works better in an environment containing fewer cards with amass Orcs, so that you're more likely to create a new creature token instead of adding more +1/+1 counters onto an existing Orc Army). Being anti-parasitic makes the mechanic stronger in singleton formats like cube, but doesn't motivate cube builders to include multiple cards with amass Orcs.
I hope they print a version of Orcish Bowmasters with reminder text for what "amass Orcs" does, because I try to keep in mind a new drafter's ability to understand the cube's many many mechanics and this is likely to end up as the only card in my cube with "amass" or "amass Orcs" printed on it.
I mean.... if someone brainstorms.... you play this in response, deal 4 1 damage pings to whatever you want and make a 4/4....
I don't even care if they kill it right away.... lulz.
According to Mark Rosewater's tumblr blog, all Amass types together. So Amass Orcs 1 and Amass Zombie 2 gives you a 3/3 Orc Zombie. I believe that goes against what was said earlier though, so I think it remains unclear.
EDIT: actually, the reminder text on the card is pretty clear that it does work that way
How widely played are Wheel effects? I don't think I've ever had such an effect in a cube. But that has never stopped cards like Narset, Parter of Veils from being sweet. Players like to draw cards.
For those who play power, it'll be a fun time to Ancestral Recall the opponent as a Lightning Bolt for lethal.
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I think wheels are pretty popular. Often times the good ones are cost prohibitive to people who are stubborn about proxying (e.g. Me) but I think when they're available and the list has a couple combos floating around, people are likely to include at least a couple.
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Nothing I can say that hasn't already been said about how good this card is, but it's value is pretty matchup dependent and certainly isn't broken most of the time.
If you don't consider the evoke creatures 0 drops, imo that still leaves Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Mother of Runes, Stoneforge Mystic, Snapcaster Mage, Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer, Hexdrinker, pretty much all the green 1-mana dorks, Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary, and even Dark Confidant, Pack Rat, Baleful Strix, Goblin Welder or Kitesail Freebooter if the situation calls for it to be better than this for the decks that run them. I'm pretty sure this is a Resolute Reinforcements with a Gut Shot most of the time, which is great, but I think the praise might be getting a little high lol
I don't think it's THAT matchup dependent. Creature based decks are going to get sniped by this, and unfair decks are going to get their cantrips punished. And you can just combo with this yourself regardless of matchup.
Fair points, but consider this:
- As far as hate bears goes, Thalia is, this is symmetrical.
- In terms of value, Stoneforge Mystic has very specific deck / archetype requirements. Snapcaster Mage needs more mana up front.
This is a Gut Shot / combat trick / hate bear / value spell + sac fodder / combo piece all in one spread across two bodies. Other 1-2 cmc spells can play like, two roles tops. This literally does everything while literally being able to kill most of its competition. The floor of Resolute Enforcements + Gut Shot is insane for a 2-cmc creature considering it's GUARANTEED value, potential for a 3 for 1 against another creature, and its insane ceiling. I can see its value going down in more fair environments, but it's still extremely up there even without wheels / Skullclamp / etc.
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The floor of a resolute reinforcements with a gutshot is a pretty amazing floor. In a deck that doesn't leverage the bodies against a deck that doesn't play cheap creatures AND doesn't draw many cards, orcish bowmasters will be meh. But I expect that's way closer to the exception than the rule.
In decks that try to leverage it's ability, there will be many games where it only realizes it's floor. However, it's ceiling is almost splinter twin/pestermite that costs 1 less mana each.
You throw this in a deck with a single draw 7 and it'll range between it's floor and winning the game by itself.
Average that out and that's reallly ****ed up for a 2 mana instant.
I'll go a step further and predict this to be the best p1p1 cheap creature in all of cube (by a small margin, low confidence).
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