Tempt with VengeancexR
Sorcery Tempting offer — Put X 1/1 red Elemental creature tokens with haste onto the battlefield. Each opponent may put X 1/1 red Elemental creature tokens with haste onto the battlefield. For each player who does, put X 1/1 red Elemental creature tokens with haste onto the battlefield.
..........
Am I the only one that thinks this card is pretty good? A bunch of hasted threats are always welcome at the top of the curve, and since I'm supporting a token theme of sorts, it seems pretty decent. I mean, 4 threats with haste for 4R is a pretty solid deal, IMO, and there's a bunch of sick plays that can come out of this card, if it follows an Ajani Goldmane, Purphoros, God of the Forge, Hero of Oxid Ridge, Hero of Bladehold, Hellrider, the new Curse of Predation, Spear of Heliod, Sarkhan Vol, or any of the other battle cry/anthem effects out there. Your opponent can get a handful of dudes if they're willing to allow you to double up on yours, which really nets them nothing. If they wanna grab 4 tokens to allow me to have 8, it won't really get them anywhere (especially not after an Oxid Ridge beatdown). Seems like a fun/powerful card that can be played in a few spots in the curve effectively, and it's splashable.
Just copying and pasting from the other thread: In a deck designed to abuse tokens, you get your original 2 1/2s for 3, 3 1/1s for 4, etc, but your opponent is never ever going to accept that counteroffer and take any tokens when you get more mileage from each one.
So as far as XR: Put X 1/1 haste guys into play is cubeable, it's OK, but I don't think I'd cube that personally at 360.
I understand that my opponent won't make bad decisions. That's fine. At face value, this card is enough in builds designed to take advantage of tokens.
I understand that my opponent won't make bad decisions. That's fine. At face value, this card is enough in builds designed to take advantage of tokens.
I'm not disputing that. It's a lot better than I gave it credit for at first sight, when I realised that no-one is ever going to hand you the opportunity to make more tokens. It gives the dudes haste basically for free in addition to the 'usual' cost for this effect, so it's a decent-good token support card. Scaleable cards are underrated on this forum as well too; being able to play at any curve point gives great value in limited. I would test at 450.
I like it. Scaleability is kind of a big deal, and token decks usually want to comfortably reach 5-6 mana. This should be quite the splashy spell in decks designed to abuse tokens.
I actually don't think the 'tempting offer' will ever be used. Which is ok.
I like it. Scaleability is kind of a big deal, and token decks usually want to comfortably reach 5-6 mana. This should be quite the splashy spell in decks designed to abuse tokens.
I actually don't think the 'tempting offer' will ever be used. Which is ok.
Thumbs up from me!
The one situation where it might come up is if you have, for example, three dangerous creatures to an opponent's one creature, or 2 to none, etc. If you X=2 or 3, they might accept extra tokens in order to gang block one of the better creatures and hope to Wrath/'clasm the rest, or chump block all three big creatures and do the same. It won't happen often but there are a few scenarios where it's favourable for the opponent. If you have an Anthem or Purphoros in play it will not happen though.
The one situation where it might come up is if you have, for example, three dangerous creatures to an opponent's one creature, or 2 to none, etc. If you X=2 or 3, they might accept extra tokens in order to gang block one of the better creatures and hope to Wrath/'clasm the rest, or chump block all three big creatures and do the same. It won't happen often but there are a few scenarios where it's favourable for the opponent. If you have an Anthem or Purphoros in play it will not happen though.
I see your point, but I think this card only belongs in decks that are really designed around tokens. In such a deck, I don't see the offer being all that tempting.
So to be clear, for those people not supporting token decks, I wouldn't recommend this card.
So it's XR for X 1/1 hasters with a bit of downside? Huh. I think it will be a go if I decide to add more token support (on the fence). I'm unclear if it is an add otherwise.
I'm just not feeling this card. It looks fun, but I'm just not sure how powerful it is. I feel like it needs to be evaluated on it's own without the consideration of if you might maybe have some sort of anthem in play. How good is XR make X 1/1 haste dudes, considering that most of the time your opponent isn't going to take you up on the offer to double your mana? Obviously if you do have the ability to buff your team somehow with one of the aforementioned anthems, then it's obviously really good. Is it good enough without the second card, though?
For Example turn 3 x=2 I also have a Gore-House Chainwalker, and goblin guide out. Opponent will definitely take 2 tokens to kill one of my other dudes, or block both of bigger guys and wrath the next turn.
That said this is a solid card and should be included if your decks can take advantage of it. Meaning if you think this will be better than fireball in your cube give it a look. I think if I move up to 450 and add the God of the Forge and Ogre Battledriver, this has some muscle.
I agree that scalable cards get underrated around here. There are plenty of times I am drawing too mana lands in my boros deck and laying out 5-6 hasty dudes is way better than drafting running a fatty I am not normally playing. Or when I don't draw a 3-4 drop this is very good at curve filling. And maybe more leverage for Burn at the Stake
Edit: Also spell creatures are nice in the spells matter deck with Young Pyromancer, Guttersnipe, Chandra etc.
My question is, the wording on this would seem to imply that even if you're the only one who gets tokens, that you'd get twice as many? "For each player" as opposed to "For each opponent" (which is what the other 3 cards say. I mean, maybe I'm missing a keyword somewhere but why is this one different? Perhaps if you double up for free it'd be much more viable if not already.
My question is, the wording on this would seem to imply that even if you're the only one who gets tokens, that you'd get twice as many? "For each player" as opposed to "For each opponent" (which is what the other 3 cards say. I mean, maybe I'm missing a keyword somewhere but why is this one different? Perhaps if you double up for free it'd be much more viable if not already.
Just a question is all. Thanks for your time. =]
No. It says first 'each opponent may...', then 'for each player who does...'. So the 'each player' refers only to opponents who have taken you up on your tempting offer.
For those players wondering if it's good enough for a random red aggro deck, I really don't think it is.
For players like us, who run a 450 with the following token support crew:
I could see throwing it into an aggro deck too, but primarily it'll be there to support the token/anthem deck, RG token ramp decks and BR pox/stax packages.
I could see throwing it into an aggro deck too, but primarily it'll be there to support the token/anthem deck, RG token ramp decks and BR pox/stax packages.
Well, it's certainly playable - I just wouldn't be stoked to have to play it in a random aggro deck.
It should be great in the other decks you listed, though.
I think the red token deck is coming closer and closer to replacing the red infinite combo deck with Kiki-Jiki. I already have a few spots dedicated to him, swamping out that deck for this deck seems fun.
If you run a really tight red section with no "fun" decks, then I can see this missing. I think I will try out some of this package though.
No. It says first 'each opponent may...', then 'for each player who does...'. So the 'each player' refers only to opponents who have taken you up on your tempting offer.
For those players wondering if it's good enough for a random red aggro deck, I really don't think it is.
For players like us, who run a 450 with the following token support crew:
...and who in addition support a 'spells matter' archetype in which this card also fits, this card looks pretty sweet though.
EDIT - oh, pretty good in pox/stax too.
No Xenagos, the Reveler or Symbol Status? R/G seems like it could play the token game pretty well too, especially with Curse of Predation being a thing.
No. It says first 'each opponent may...', then 'for each player who does...'. So the 'each player' refers only to opponents who have taken you up on your tempting offer.
Fair enough EXCEPT, that still doesn't answer why it's different from the other "Tempting Offer" cards. They're all worded exactly (well, almost exactly the same) except Vengeance which says each player instead of opponent. So, why is it different?
I know it could easily be a mistype but surely you see how it could be taken to mean differently if it isn't.
The way the card would resolve as is:
Put X 1/1 red Elemental creature tokens with haste onto the battlefield.
and then
Each opponent may put X 1/1 red Elemental creature tokens with haste onto the battlefield.
and finally
For each player who does, put X 1/1 red Elemental creature tokens with haste onto the battlefield.
Three separate effects. Now, if the period before the final effect was a comma, different story entirely because those abilities would be linked. As written, it could work either way.
Sorcery
Tempting offer — Put X 1/1 red Elemental creature tokens with haste onto the battlefield. Each opponent may put X 1/1 red Elemental creature tokens with haste onto the battlefield. For each player who does, put X 1/1 red Elemental creature tokens with haste onto the battlefield.
..........
Am I the only one that thinks this card is pretty good? A bunch of hasted threats are always welcome at the top of the curve, and since I'm supporting a token theme of sorts, it seems pretty decent. I mean, 4 threats with haste for 4R is a pretty solid deal, IMO, and there's a bunch of sick plays that can come out of this card, if it follows an Ajani Goldmane, Purphoros, God of the Forge, Hero of Oxid Ridge, Hero of Bladehold, Hellrider, the new Curse of Predation, Spear of Heliod, Sarkhan Vol, or any of the other battle cry/anthem effects out there. Your opponent can get a handful of dudes if they're willing to allow you to double up on yours, which really nets them nothing. If they wanna grab 4 tokens to allow me to have 8, it won't really get them anywhere (especially not after an Oxid Ridge beatdown). Seems like a fun/powerful card that can be played in a few spots in the curve effectively, and it's splashable.
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So as far as XR: Put X 1/1 haste guys into play is cubeable, it's OK, but I don't think I'd cube that personally at 360.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
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I'm not disputing that. It's a lot better than I gave it credit for at first sight, when I realised that no-one is ever going to hand you the opportunity to make more tokens. It gives the dudes haste basically for free in addition to the 'usual' cost for this effect, so it's a decent-good token support card. Scaleable cards are underrated on this forum as well too; being able to play at any curve point gives great value in limited. I would test at 450.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
I actually don't think the 'tempting offer' will ever be used. Which is ok.
Thumbs up from me!
The one situation where it might come up is if you have, for example, three dangerous creatures to an opponent's one creature, or 2 to none, etc. If you X=2 or 3, they might accept extra tokens in order to gang block one of the better creatures and hope to Wrath/'clasm the rest, or chump block all three big creatures and do the same. It won't happen often but there are a few scenarios where it's favourable for the opponent. If you have an Anthem or Purphoros in play it will not happen though.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
So to be clear, for those people not supporting token decks, I wouldn't recommend this card.
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That said this is a solid card and should be included if your decks can take advantage of it. Meaning if you think this will be better than fireball in your cube give it a look. I think if I move up to 450 and add the God of the Forge and Ogre Battledriver, this has some muscle.
I agree that scalable cards get underrated around here. There are plenty of times I am drawing too mana lands in my boros deck and laying out 5-6 hasty dudes is way better than drafting running a fatty I am not normally playing. Or when I don't draw a 3-4 drop this is very good at curve filling. And maybe more leverage for Burn at the Stake
Edit: Also spell creatures are nice in the spells matter deck with Young Pyromancer, Guttersnipe, Chandra etc.
Just a question is all. Thanks for your time. =]
So, why is the wording different on just this card then?
For those players wondering if it's good enough for a random red aggro deck, I really don't think it is.
For players like us, who run a 450 with the following token support crew:
...and who in addition support a 'spells matter' archetype in which this card also fits, this card looks pretty sweet though.
EDIT - oh, pretty good in pox/stax too.
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It should be great in the other decks you listed, though.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, +1
If you run a really tight red section with no "fun" decks, then I can see this missing. I think I will try out some of this package though.
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No Xenagos, the Reveler or Symbol Status? R/G seems like it could play the token game pretty well too, especially with Curse of Predation being a thing.
Fair enough EXCEPT, that still doesn't answer why it's different from the other "Tempting Offer" cards. They're all worded exactly (well, almost exactly the same) except Vengeance which says each player instead of opponent. So, why is it different?
For the record:
http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/tempt-reflections/
"For each opponent..."
http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/tempt-glory/
"For each opponent..."
http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/tempt-discovery/
"For each opponent..."
http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/tempt-vengeance/
"For each player..."
I know it could easily be a mistype but surely you see how it could be taken to mean differently if it isn't.
The way the card would resolve as is:
Put X 1/1 red Elemental creature tokens with haste onto the battlefield.
and then
Each opponent may put X 1/1 red Elemental creature tokens with haste onto the battlefield.
and finally
For each player who does, put X 1/1 red Elemental creature tokens with haste onto the battlefield.
Three separate effects. Now, if the period before the final effect was a comma, different story entirely because those abilities would be linked. As written, it could work either way.
99% chance of it just being a typo though.
Poor proofreading? They already have two other cards that require day 0 erratas.
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As long as it's understood that it would in fact function differently with that wording, that's all I'm trying to say.
^
What are the other two cards though?
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