A guy in town was selling off his collection and to make it easier to sell off his cheaper stuff, he was offering to design budget cubes using his cards and selling them pre-sleeved with lands, so I took the opportunity to get one since my first attempt at building a cube on my own a while back didn't really go anywhere.
I just got it so I haven't been able to draft it with my friends yet, but I would like to know if you guys think there are some good archetypes present here that I can strengthen through upgrades over time, and which cards should be replaced.
In addition to some replacements, I am also considering expanding the cube to be 450 cards for more variance in drafting.
Ideas for additions I had were:
- I was considering adding a cycle of shocklands, checklands, and the tricoloured tap lands form khans and shards, and adding 1 bomby card for each 3 colour combination as well. Are three colour cards in cube a bad idea?
- 5 - 10 plansewalkers (one in each colour)
- Adding a couple more big mana cost bomby creatures in each colour (I'm using this cube mostly with friends that are new to the game so I thought huge guys would make it more fun)
- The 10 RtR block guild charms (though some are obviously more powerful than others, so I don't know if the entire cycle needs to be in here)
- The 15 Theros block Gods (probably not a great idea, since for these guys to work, I feel like you would have to design the cube for them to fit into existing archetypes in the cube rather than just shoving them in.)
If anyone feels like doing a draft on CT, it would be greatly appreciated! Feel free to leave a link to yours if you do and I will try to get in a draft on it when I have time
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Legacy : WUGBBant DeathbladeBGUW
Modern : RGTitanshiftGR / UGWKnightfallWGU
My first thought on looking at the list was that aggro looked weak. Not enough one-drops. Then I decided to draft it and first-picked a Hymn to Tourach. Diregraf Ghoul also showed up, so I decided to force it anyway. Here's what I ended up with: http://cubetutor.com/cubedeck/204709
Cheap creatures, not enough one-drops, but some powerful cards and lots of discard. My biggest complaint was the amount of double-mana symbols in casting costs. Obviously the fixing isn't going to be as powerful in a budget cube, but that's all the MORE reason to shy away from those double mana symbols. That's the first place I'd look for improvement. Aggro is already hamstrung by all the "come into play tapped" fixing, it shouldn't also have to risk casting it's two-drops on turn four.
One final note, if you do decide to add Planeswalkers, consider some swaps like Despise in for Ostracize.
Thanks for the feedback, I am looking to improve the mana as a priority, I have a set of shocks and checklands that I am bringing in and i'm going to remove the guildgates. Might add the painland cycle too if I get the last few I'm missing.
I think there are quite a few good 1 drops in the last few sets that I have laying around, so I might bring in Bloodsoaked Champion, Gnarled Scarhide, Soldier of the Pantheon, Firedrinker Satyr and see what else I have there as well.
I have despise I can bring in here, and for plansewalkers I was thinking:
Welcome to the Cube forum, it looks like no one has answered some of your more specific questions yet, so I'll do the best I can.
A guy in town was selling off his collection and to make it easier to sell off his cheaper stuff, he was offering to design budget cubes using his cards and selling them pre-sleeved with lands, so I took the opportunity to get one since my first attempt at building a cube on my own a while back didn't really go anywhere.
At a glance, I'd say the budget cube you bought is a pretty decent starting point. You have a lot of cube staples in there already, as well as cards that might not make the cut in most rare cubes, but are solid in Peasant cubes. A lot of the cards in your cube that aren't in a lot of the pricier cubes also happen to be cards I've tried out as I was developing my cube, so I probably have a bit of insight about which cards you might want to get rid of a little faster, and which ones are worth holding onto for the time being.
I just got it so I haven't been able to draft it with my friends yet, but I would like to know if you guys think there are some good archetypes present here that I can strengthen through upgrades over time, and which cards should be replaced.
This is a good, but massive question. Before worrying about archetypes, you want to make sure that the three major theaters (aggro/midrange/control) are supported properly with a decent balance. I'd say that right now your cube is missing some very important tools for control and aggro. For aggro you want to have a critical mass of at 7-8 aggressive one drops, preferably with 2 power in the most important aggressive colors, white, red, and black - and I also support aggro in green. All the ones you mentioned are good additions, and I recommend finding more. The good news is that most of these are cheap. Check out my cube list for ideas. Mana denial is another good way to help give aggro decks a fighting chance against midrange decks. In control, you could really use some mass removal effects and some resilient finishers that are hard to interact with to help your control decks stabilize and gain card advantage against more aggressive decks.
As for archetypes, Falcone1983 just posted a really good rundown of different archetypes that cubes can effectively support, if you haven't seen it yet you should definitely check it out for ideas. I'd say you already have some of the tools to support blink, discard, fires, pox/stax, tokens, Wildfire, reanimation, and I'm sure I'm missing some.
- I was considering adding a cycle of shocklands, checklands, and the tricoloured tap lands form khans and shards, and adding 1 bomby card for each 3 colour combination as well.
Adding more duals, and improving on the ones you already have, is a good idea and should probably be your top priority. You should have 4 (3 for of the best duals you can get for each guild - preferably ones that don't come into play tapped - plus as many good 5 color fixing lands as you can find. Full cycles of shock lands, pain lands, and check lands is a great place to start if you have them handy. That's what I'm using for my enemy guilds now, plus the Theros block scry lands, and it's working out pretty well. For allied guild fixing, the Worldwake manlands (e.g. Raging Ravine) and Scars of Mirrodin (e.g. Copperline Gorge) fast lands are also decent options that don't break the bank. If you have the cycle of tri-lands from Shards and KTK that's pretty decent fixing for now, and the Vivid lands are another budget wonder for 5 color fixing.
Are three colour cards in cube a bad idea?
Probably, because there often won't even be a deck that can cast them reliably, but a lot of people are trying them out right now anyway because KTK. I've just added one from each wedge, and in the two drafts I've had since I added them no one's actually cast one yet. I doubt I'll keep them once excitement over KTK has died down. If you have them on hand, try them if you want to, but they might not see much actual play.
- 5 - 10 plansewalkers (one in each colour)
Most of the planeswalkers you mentioned are solid choices, although I cut Liliana Vess and a while ago for just not doing very much. Liliana of the Dark Realms wasn't much better, and the triple black on Sorin Markov makes me hesitant to shell out for it, so I'm not running any black planeswalkers until the reprint Liliana of the Veil or come out with another decent mono black walker. A couple of suggestions for planeswalkers that have been a hit in my cube, and cost $5 or less each:
Gideon Jura
Jace, Architect of Thought (the Duel Deck foil is going for just $3 right now)
Vraska, the Unseen (the Duel Deck foil is going for just $3 right now)
Koth of the Hammer
Chandra Nalaar (new Sarkhan is probably better if you already have it)
These are less than $7, and they're generally considered cube staples:
Garruk Relentless
Venser the Sojourner
Sorin Lord of Innistrad
Ral Zarek
- Adding a couple more big mana cost bomby creatures in each colour (I'm using this cube mostly with friends that are new to the game so I thought huge guys would make it more fun)
These are even better when you have ways to cheat them into play early, like reanimation or Tinker.
- The 10 RtR block guild charms (though some are obviously more powerful than others, so I don't know if the entire cycle needs to be in here)
You're already running more gold cards than you probably should, at 450 you really only want 4 gold cards per guild so I'd suggest making some cuts and replacing some of them with more artifacts and/or lands or possibly hybrid mana cards. As for the charms, most of them aren't that great. Boros Charm is the only one that's still in most cubes, but I was happy with Simic Charm and Selesnya Charm for quite a while.
- The 15 Theros block Gods (probably not a great idea, since for these guys to work, I feel like you would have to design the cube for them to fit into existing archetypes in the cube rather than just shoving them in.)
You should listen to your gut on this one. Most of the gods turned out to be do nothing enchantments for cube, most of them even suck in retail limited! The problem is that you want most of your cards to be able to fit into as many different kinds of decks as possible, and a big part of that is splashability which is a nonbo with devotion and most cubes have good enough removal that the kind of board stalls that might make it possible to turn the gods on by accident just don't happen. Purphoros works well in cubes that run a lot of token generators, and some people include blue devotion packages that help make Thassa work, but the rest kinda suck for cube.
When I first posted my cube list, Eidolon gave me a list of popular low budget cards that I found incredibly helpful when I was building my cube. You'll probably find this useful, too:
If anyone feels like doing a draft on CT, it would be greatly appreciated! Feel free to leave a link to yours if you do and I will try to get in a draft on it when I have time
I'd be happy to. A great way to get more people to draft your cube is to post in the "Draft the Above Person's Cube" link on the main cube forum page. I check it regularly, and draft there. You get lots of great data about what people do and don't like to pick in your cube, and you're bound to get some good ideas for cards to try out from other people's cubes. Give it a try!
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465 card Unpowered cube thread. Draft it here and I'll be happy to return the favor.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
Thank you so much! There is a lot of info here that I will try to apply to my cube. Most of my magic budget for the next little while is definitely going to be going towards this, and I actually have quite a few cards in the budget list at the bottom already too.
I agree about the charms and gods and wont add those cycles after all.
I'll be drafting this bad boy tonight, so hopefully actually playing it will help me figure out what themes are good/fun and give me some direction on where to go first for improvements.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy : WUGBBant DeathbladeBGUW
Modern : RGTitanshiftGR / UGWKnightfallWGU
I just got it so I haven't been able to draft it with my friends yet, but I would like to know if you guys think there are some good archetypes present here that I can strengthen through upgrades over time, and which cards should be replaced.
In addition to some replacements, I am also considering expanding the cube to be 450 cards for more variance in drafting.
Ideas for additions I had were:
- I was considering adding a cycle of shocklands, checklands, and the tricoloured tap lands form khans and shards, and adding 1 bomby card for each 3 colour combination as well. Are three colour cards in cube a bad idea?
- 5 - 10 plansewalkers (one in each colour)
- Adding a couple more big mana cost bomby creatures in each colour (I'm using this cube mostly with friends that are new to the game so I thought huge guys would make it more fun)
- The 10 RtR block guild charms (though some are obviously more powerful than others, so I don't know if the entire cycle needs to be in here)
- The 15 Theros block Gods (probably not a great idea, since for these guys to work, I feel like you would have to design the cube for them to fit into existing archetypes in the cube rather than just shoving them in.)
Anyways, here is the link to the cube!
http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/18192
If anyone feels like doing a draft on CT, it would be greatly appreciated! Feel free to leave a link to yours if you do and I will try to get in a draft on it when I have time
Modern : RGTitanshiftGR / UGWKnightfallWGU
Cheap creatures, not enough one-drops, but some powerful cards and lots of discard. My biggest complaint was the amount of double-mana symbols in casting costs. Obviously the fixing isn't going to be as powerful in a budget cube, but that's all the MORE reason to shy away from those double mana symbols. That's the first place I'd look for improvement. Aggro is already hamstrung by all the "come into play tapped" fixing, it shouldn't also have to risk casting it's two-drops on turn four.
One final note, if you do decide to add Planeswalkers, consider some swaps like Despise in for Ostracize.
I think there are quite a few good 1 drops in the last few sets that I have laying around, so I might bring in Bloodsoaked Champion, Gnarled Scarhide, Soldier of the Pantheon, Firedrinker Satyr and see what else I have there as well.
I have despise I can bring in here, and for plansewalkers I was thinking:
Green: Garruk Wildspeaker or Garruk, Caller of Beasts
Red: Chandra, Pyromaster or Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
White: Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Black: Liliana Vess or Sorin Markov
Blue: Tamiyo, the Moon Sage (I don't really want mill to be a thing in the cube so I don't want most of the jaces)
Modern : RGTitanshiftGR / UGWKnightfallWGU
At a glance, I'd say the budget cube you bought is a pretty decent starting point. You have a lot of cube staples in there already, as well as cards that might not make the cut in most rare cubes, but are solid in Peasant cubes. A lot of the cards in your cube that aren't in a lot of the pricier cubes also happen to be cards I've tried out as I was developing my cube, so I probably have a bit of insight about which cards you might want to get rid of a little faster, and which ones are worth holding onto for the time being.
This is a good, but massive question. Before worrying about archetypes, you want to make sure that the three major theaters (aggro/midrange/control) are supported properly with a decent balance. I'd say that right now your cube is missing some very important tools for control and aggro. For aggro you want to have a critical mass of at 7-8 aggressive one drops, preferably with 2 power in the most important aggressive colors, white, red, and black - and I also support aggro in green. All the ones you mentioned are good additions, and I recommend finding more. The good news is that most of these are cheap. Check out my cube list for ideas. Mana denial is another good way to help give aggro decks a fighting chance against midrange decks. In control, you could really use some mass removal effects and some resilient finishers that are hard to interact with to help your control decks stabilize and gain card advantage against more aggressive decks.
As for archetypes, Falcone1983 just posted a really good rundown of different archetypes that cubes can effectively support, if you haven't seen it yet you should definitely check it out for ideas. I'd say you already have some of the tools to support blink, discard, fires, pox/stax, tokens, Wildfire, reanimation, and I'm sure I'm missing some.
Adding more duals, and improving on the ones you already have, is a good idea and should probably be your top priority. You should have 4 (3 for of the best duals you can get for each guild - preferably ones that don't come into play tapped - plus as many good 5 color fixing lands as you can find. Full cycles of shock lands, pain lands, and check lands is a great place to start if you have them handy. That's what I'm using for my enemy guilds now, plus the Theros block scry lands, and it's working out pretty well. For allied guild fixing, the Worldwake manlands (e.g. Raging Ravine) and Scars of Mirrodin (e.g. Copperline Gorge) fast lands are also decent options that don't break the bank. If you have the cycle of tri-lands from Shards and KTK that's pretty decent fixing for now, and the Vivid lands are another budget wonder for 5 color fixing.
Probably, because there often won't even be a deck that can cast them reliably, but a lot of people are trying them out right now anyway because KTK. I've just added one from each wedge, and in the two drafts I've had since I added them no one's actually cast one yet. I doubt I'll keep them once excitement over KTK has died down. If you have them on hand, try them if you want to, but they might not see much actual play.
Most of the planeswalkers you mentioned are solid choices, although I cut Liliana Vess and a while ago for just not doing very much. Liliana of the Dark Realms wasn't much better, and the triple black on Sorin Markov makes me hesitant to shell out for it, so I'm not running any black planeswalkers until the reprint Liliana of the Veil or come out with another decent mono black walker. A couple of suggestions for planeswalkers that have been a hit in my cube, and cost $5 or less each:
Gideon Jura
Jace, Architect of Thought (the Duel Deck foil is going for just $3 right now)
Vraska, the Unseen (the Duel Deck foil is going for just $3 right now)
Koth of the Hammer
Chandra Nalaar (new Sarkhan is probably better if you already have it)
These are less than $7, and they're generally considered cube staples:
Garruk Relentless
Venser the Sojourner
Sorin Lord of Innistrad
Ral Zarek
These are even better when you have ways to cheat them into play early, like reanimation or Tinker.
You're already running more gold cards than you probably should, at 450 you really only want 4 gold cards per guild so I'd suggest making some cuts and replacing some of them with more artifacts and/or lands or possibly hybrid mana cards. As for the charms, most of them aren't that great. Boros Charm is the only one that's still in most cubes, but I was happy with Simic Charm and Selesnya Charm for quite a while.
You should listen to your gut on this one. Most of the gods turned out to be do nothing enchantments for cube, most of them even suck in retail limited! The problem is that you want most of your cards to be able to fit into as many different kinds of decks as possible, and a big part of that is splashability which is a nonbo with devotion and most cubes have good enough removal that the kind of board stalls that might make it possible to turn the gods on by accident just don't happen. Purphoros works well in cubes that run a lot of token generators, and some people include blue devotion packages that help make Thassa work, but the rest kinda suck for cube.
When I first posted my cube list, Eidolon gave me a list of popular low budget cards that I found incredibly helpful when I was building my cube. You'll probably find this useful, too:
1 Elite Vanguard
1 Steppe Lynx
1 Accorder Paladin
1 Imposing Sovereign
1 Soltari Monk
1 Soltari Priest
1 Soltari Trooper
1 Wall of Omens
1 Flickerwisp
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Porcelain Legionnaire
1 Silverblade Paladin
1 Soltari Champion
1 Spectral Procession
1 Cloudgoat Ranger
//spells
1 Mana Tithe
1 Journey to Nowhere
1 Day of Judgment
1 Faith's Fetters
//creatures
1 Enclave Cryptologist
1 Looter il-Kor
1 Æther Adept
1 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
//spells
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Condescend
1 Impulse
1 Into the Roil
1 Mana Leak
1 Memory Lapse
1 Forbid
1 Crystal Shard
1 Control Magic
1 Deep Analysis
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Upheaval
1 Diregraf Ghoul
1 Dauthi Horror
1 Oona's Prowler
1 Vampire Hexmage
1 Braids, Cabal Minion
//spells
1 Duress
1 Go for the Throat
1 Chainer's Edict
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Consuming Vapors
1 Profane Command
//creatures
1 Jackal Pup
1 Greater Gargadon
1 Hellspark Elemental
1 Keldon Marauders
1 Plated Geopede
1 Stormblood Berserker
1 Manic Vandal
1 Flametongue Kavu
1 Hero of Oxid Ridge
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Zealous Conscripts
1 Inferno Titan
//spells
1 Burst Lightning
1 Faithless Looting
1 Firebolt
1 Arc Trail
1 Pillage
1 Staggershock
1 Sulfuric Vortex
//creatures
1 Treetop Village
1 Arbor Elf
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Joraga Treespeaker
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Wall of Roots
1 Troll Ascetic
1 Uktabi Orangutan
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Cultivate
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Plow Under
//Multicolor
1 Shadowmage Infiltrator
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Kird Ape
1 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Electrolyze
1 Boros Charm
1 Trygon Predator
1 Mystic Snake
1 Wild Nacatl
//creatures
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Molten-Tail Masticore
1 Myr Battlesphere
//spells
1 Bonesplitter
1 Pithing Needle
1 Mind Stone
1 Grafted Wargear
1 Mimic Vat
//Lands
1 Terramorphic Expanse
I'd also recommend you try out Aetherling and Sphinx of Jwar Isle as control finishers.
I'd be happy to. A great way to get more people to draft your cube is to post in the "Draft the Above Person's Cube" link on the main cube forum page. I check it regularly, and draft there. You get lots of great data about what people do and don't like to pick in your cube, and you're bound to get some good ideas for cards to try out from other people's cubes. Give it a try!
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
I agree about the charms and gods and wont add those cycles after all.
I'll be drafting this bad boy tonight, so hopefully actually playing it will help me figure out what themes are good/fun and give me some direction on where to go first for improvements.
Modern : RGTitanshiftGR / UGWKnightfallWGU
Izzet Charm also doesn't suck. Each mode is good enoughthat it still makes the cut in a lot of 450+ lists, including mine.
You should include a Cubetutor link to your cube in your sig if you want more people to try it.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.