I think it's awesome you found a way to get cube going at your local FNM, and that you can use proxies. I may try to do something similar at my shop. Here are my thoughts on your one-drop questions. Cubetutor is down right now, so hopefully I'm not suggesting anything that you've already added, but right now I have no way to know.
Hmmm... that's a small list of pretty bad black 1-drops. I think you can do better than those. I do like Ruthless Ripper and Disowned Ancestor (although it's definitely not an aggro card), and Putrid Imp if you're supporting reanimator. Cubetutor is down right now, so I assume you already have all the 2-power one drops that are in most smaller cubes. Here are some more that I like better than what's on your list besides the usual 2-power one drops, ranked:
Entrails Feaster (I ran this card for a while in the early days of my cube, you'd be surprised how big it can get for a one-drop. IMHO, you should run this over any black one drop that doesn't do much more than attack for one) Carrion Feeder Cruel Sadist Guul Draz Vampire Thrull Parasite (extort is really nice for reach)
Thanks for the help. I'm already playing Carrion Feeder and Stonewright.
I will definitely consider Thrull Parasite. Extort can be good in almost any stage of the game, and his ability is certainly not irrelevant. Entrails Feaster seems more like a 2-5 drop than an actual one drop, since you have to tap him and guys have to die for him to get any type of real value.
I like Elvish Pioneer a little more since it ramps you immediately instead of having to wait a turn, but it's probably irrelevant most of the time anyway. I actually don't think I'm going to be going with that subset anyway the more I think about it, since there are enough mana dorks in a 720.
I'm actually going to cut Magus of the Scroll for Frenzied Goblin, since Magus of the Scroll isn't really a one drop that contributes to swinging that much.
I'm doing the three ones that were voted on almost unanimously, and then also adding in Basking Rootwalla. Rootwalla can randomly get the job done via discard outlets, and I like rewarding synergistic deckbuilding via drafting discard outlets.
I would first humbly (or not so humbly) submit my 720 powered cube for review. I've been refining it for about seven years now trying to vary archetype support with a specific emphasis on ensuring that aggro is viable.
While you are hard pressed to duplicate the same density of quality one-drops as say 360 or 450, I don't think you need dig quite as deep as some of the cards you listed. A good cheat you might consider is including Tattermunge Maniac, Militant Dryad, Kird Ape, and other multi-color and hybrid one-drops as mono-colored so that they don't compete for slots with powerful multi-color cards.
At one time or another I have tested most of the one-drops you list.
For Black:
Fume Spitter
Putrid Imp
Visera Seer
None of the rest worked out well.
White:
Akrasan Squire
Harrier
Lawkeeper
Red:
Spikeshot Elder
Gorilla Shaman
Vexing Devil
Green:
Wild Dogs
Ulvanwald Tracker
Experiment One
Wolfbitten Captive
And if you haven't considered it Tinder Wall is pretty awesome.
While you are hard pressed to duplicate the same density of quality one-drops as say 360 or 450, I don't think you need dig quite as deep as some of the cards you listed. A good cheat you might consider is including Tattermunge Maniac, Militant Dryad, Kird Ape, and other multi-color and hybrid one-drops as mono-colored so that they don't compete for slots with powerful multi-color cards.
I'm including all of the cards you listed, and I'm classifying some of them in guild (Dryad Militant, Tattermunge) while I'm giving some of them their special section (Kird Ape, Loam Lion, Wild Nac), in addition to trying for ~15 aggressive one drops. I think that density will help aggro a lot compared to something like the MODO cube.
Oh yeah, Tinder Wall is definitely included as we're supporting storm. He's almost good enough for 360 powered, actually (but I don't want to include him in the aggro suite, although I am including the mana dorks).
I'll go back up and look at if I can remove anything to put in some of your suggestions.
Vexing Devil was okay, as you'd expect it often played as a burn spell early and a creature late. Like Browbeat its at its best when the opponent guesses wrong, which wasn't often enough. Always evaluate it on its worst case senario.
I cut it a while back as just not proactive enough. I like even Legion Loyalist and the new Swiftspear better, both of which I consider about the cut off point for playables.
Okay, great. Yeah, I didn't want to include Vexing Devil over some of the other options. I'm going to cut him, as I'm at one too many one drops for red right now.
The list is starting to come together. I went through and did the guild and colorless sections. I may still be missing some cards I want in there, but I think those are pretty close to solid.
Starting to cut the chaff from the other colors now. Harder than it looks for sure.
How is the fixing in your cube? Do you have too much of it, or is it at a good point? I may need to cut 10 additional cards from mono-colored to get the tri-lands in.
Red:
Kargan (I can't think of another two-drop that can dominate the board like this guy, 8 1/2 Tails maybe, the CC is totally worth it for both of them.)
Fiend/Reveler (I play 6-7 aritfact destruction per color in RWG to keep swords/jitte in check.)
Green:
Viper
Druid (a must if you want to support green ramp)
Kudzu
River Boa
I actually like all the guys you listed. If you play Champion of the Parish I'd switch Mayor for River Boa for extra human support. Beastbreaker of Bala Ged is also deceptively good.
With regards to fixing, I recently added a seventh guild land for each color to slightly depress their draft value. I'd rather have them be 5th-10th pick rather than 1-5. I found only green was ever able to make a third color splash with 60 (maybe the way it ought to be, but that's another story). I also play 10 five color lands, and currently no tri-color. But I could see sticking with 60 guild and playing the tri-colors, which would depend on how much you want to support 3+color decks as it would be either those or usually the Karoos as 7th best guild land.
I try my best to keep green's fixing and ramp abilities relevant so I only play seven color fixing artifacts, Gilded Lotus, Coalition Relic, Chromantic Lantern, Izzet, Dimir, and Azorius Signets and Mox Diamond (technically Black Lotus could count but I think of it more as a ritual effect). I have been looking to add maybe 2 or 3 more mana rocks (to get to 25 total) but haven't found the space yet.
Thanks Scourge. Between you and Cythare helping out, I think I've made my decisions. I was leaning towards many of the cards you guys pitched as well and am happy to see you guys feel the same way.
I actually really like Beastbreaker, we used to play him a few years ago in my old 540 and I was never upset to see him in an aggressive deck, especially one that plays mana dorks too. You can really get a lot out of the mana. I'm going to add him in and take something else out just to really support aggro more.
Here is the list again. I've bolded my adds (really I'm cutting the other ones, but same difference).
Daring Skyjek
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kami of Ancient Law Knight of Glory
Loyal Cathar Nearheath Pilgrim Precinct Captain
Soltari Monk Soltari Priest
Syndic of Tithes
Spirit of the Labyrinth
I think these are pretty solid additions. I like Syndic the most out of the other options, and Kami next just to deal with potential enchantments.
Black:
Fleshbag
Lifebane (the best of those listed by a wide margin)
Green:
Vigilante (flexabilty is the attraction, sees a lot of play, nice to have the option of avoiding nuking your own stuff)
Somberwald (turn one elf, turn two sage, turn three seven drop not uncommon, this is a removal magnet)
Boon Saytr as alternate, but not a must so long as you play Briarhorn
Okay, I cleaned up the list a good deal. Only a few cuts left. If anyone would like to take a list and advice me on a red cut and two green cuts, I'd appreciate it.
These cuts are surprisingly really difficult. I'm not cutting storm cards right now (I want to play with everything, if it's too much I'll scale back). Moment's Peace and Oath of Druids are uncuttable at this point (storm). Aggro cuts are also very difficult.
I have a large cube for over five years. In my cube aggro works really well, in many years it was the dominant strategy. My advice is not to just double on the amount of one drops you had in a small cube. Many of the one drop you play are unplayable and will not make aggro decks stronger or more common - they will just sit on the sidelines. If you cube with a large table, the one drop will anyway pass through to the people who do draft aggro. I play more two and three drops than you do in the aggressive colors btw.
Supporting storm in a large cube seems ambitious. I'm interested to see if it's working out!
Deceiver Exarch/Splinter Twin combo package - In a large cube the combo pieces are likely not to be present at the draft at all and I don't think they are playable on their own.
Sleight of Hand - Do you think it's good enough without storm support?
I think Kor Hookmaster is better than Mentor of the Meek. You get a lot of tempo from it, and mentor, while has potential for card advantage, is expensive and fragile. Hookmaster is a great follow up for turn one one drop, turn two two drop. I know it doesn't appear to be very attractive, but it performed well here.
Mana Flare/Heartbeat of Spring - don't they backfire too often? Especially as your cube has both super ramp and storm?
I think you have too few green super fatties. I am playing more than you, and I think of adding another one. Craterhoof Behemoth is not very good though, don't add that.
Genesis Wave - did you play it in your small cube? How much does X need to be to be worth it?
Mana Reflection - isn't costing six and not affecting the board too much to ask for a sorcery speed card?
Mystic Gate - the whole cycle is worse than the Glacial Fortress cycle. Mystic Gate doesn't allow to split mana between phases and turns, they are bad in multiples and the option of producing colorless in bad draws is much worse than the land ETBT, as at least you would still be able to cast your spells.
Hey Metamind! I actually used your cube as a template (along with one or two other people) for adding cards in initially, so I just threw a ton of stuff in the cube (I think it was 870 cards) and then started cutting stuff.
In my cube aggro works really well, in many years it was the dominant strategy. My advice is not to just double on the amount of one drops you had in a small cube. Many of the one drop you play are unplayable and will not make aggro decks stronger or more common - they will just sit on the sidelines. If you cube with a large table, the one drop will anyway pass through to the people who do draft aggro. I play more two and three drops than you do in the aggressive colors btw.
I want to start off by keeping the numbers high and then make cuts if we need them. I want to make sure aggressive decks are viable and interactive. If we don't need them, we'll cut them, or if aggro is too strong. I've intentionally cut some of the cards that are really strong against aggro (Pyroclasm, Spellskite) just to make sure the archetype is viable.
If aggro is too strong, we can make adjustments in multiple ways, so I'm excited to see how the format will evolve. Supporting storm also makes me want to make the overall kill turn for most decks a little slower, but I don't want the MODO cube phenomenon where nearly every winning deck is mid-range or control.
Supporting storm in a large cube seems ambitious. I'm interested to see if it's working out!
Yeah, I have a lot of experience with storm at 360, and a good amount at 540. Trying to get enough experience at 720 to write the last part of a Storm primer. Having experience with the archetype in a small, medium, and large sized cube is a good asset for the community at large, IMO.
Deceiver Exarch/Splinter Twin combo package - In a large cube the combo pieces are likely not to be present at the draft at all and I don't think they are playable on their own.
Yeah, I actually cut all of these just to get the numbers down.
Sleight of Hand - Do you think it's good enough without storm support?
No idea. I am supporting storm though, so I do want to have it in there.
I think Kor Hookmaster is better than Mentor of the Meek. You get a lot of tempo from it, and mentor, while has potential for card advantage, is expensive and fragile. Hookmaster is a great follow up for turn one one drop, turn two two drop. I know it doesn't appear to be very attractive, but it performed well here.
Mentor is one of the few ways for the white aggressive deck to gain cards. I also like how it's another human for Champion. I'm going to keep it in for now, but I may add Kor Hookmaster to test it soon. Thanks for the report on how well he's doing.
Anthem.dec. A guy in my playgroup really wants to try it. I'm not opposed to that.
Invisible Stalker - The concentration of good equipments drops hard, this card loses too much of its value.
Yeah, I'm iffy on this guy. I like how he's a source of for-sure reach that works well with equipments, but I actually don't like how uninteractive it is when he does get equipped. I was including him because I figured he would be mad strong, but I'm not playing that many equipment to begin with.
Riftwing Cloudskate - how good is it after turn two? If it's good I'll add it too, as blue aggro is fairly new in my cube.
I have no idea. Haven't played with the cube at all yet. It's a worse Mist Raven for sure unless you're suspending it, but in the MODO cube it's never been a bad card.
I think Jace, Architect of Thought is good enough to make the cut easily (even if it's the fourth jace).
I'll try to find a cut for him.
You play very few counterspells. I know it might be a conscious decision, but it will hurt control severely.
This is a conscious decision. I left all the great counterspells in. I want to make sure storm can function decently initially. If it shows it can be a decent deck, we can bring back in some counterspells as well as cut some storm support. Storm takes out a good amount of blue cards, so cutting counterspells for the storm cards seem like a pretty easy swap. The counterspells I took out are fine, but it's not like I'm dropping Mana Drain or Remand.
Discard (or Entomb) + Replenish. We played with this combo in 360, it's pretty decent. There's a lot of tutors for all these pieces. Mystical or Personal tutor can get the Replenish, and Enlightened Tutor, Idyllic Tutor, etc can get the Omniscience.
It can also be cast off of Dream Halls, which sounds ridiculous, but sometimes going Dream Halls -> pitch blue card to cast Omniscience -> Wheel of Fortune is a game winner.
Mana Flare/Heartbeat of Spring - don't they backfire too often? Especially as your cube has both super ramp and storm?
They're mainly for storm, but super-ramp can use them too. They are the 3rd and 4th worst of the mana-doublers (Mana Reflection is the worst one), but I want to have a critical mass of them. Honestly, 5 at 720 may be wayyyyy too few. I played 4 at 360.
I think you have too few green super fatties. I am playing more than you, and I think of adding another one. Craterhoof Behemoth is not very good though, don't add that.
I agree entirely. Not exactly sure what to do here, especially as I still need to make some green cuts which are difficult.
Genesis Wave - did you play it in your small cube? How much does X need to be to be worth it?
Yeah, it's surprisingly pretty sweet. X=5 and above is the sweet spot, but 4 isn't horrible either.
Mana Reflection - isn't costing six and not affecting the board too much to ask for a sorcery speed card?
Yeah, it's pretty bad. It's not as bad as some other mana doublers, but I need the critical mass, especially with this large cube size.
Mystic Gate - the whole cycle is worse than the Glacial Fortress cycle. Mystic Gate doesn't allow to split mana between phases and turns, they are bad in multiples and the option of producing colorless in bad draws is much worse than the land ETBT, as at least you would still be able to cast your spells.
Hmm. I figured Mystic Gate would be better, since it allows me to cast wraths with 2 island + colorless land + mystic gate, or double blue spells with 2 plains + colorless land + mystic gate.
I'll keep this in consideration if I don't see that coming up too often.
Oh, there are a lot of things in this classification system that can be counted a lot of different ways. I count Birthing Pod as a colorless card too, and that card is way more green than Shrine is red. Haha. There's a lot of stuff like that though, it generally balances out pretty well.
Sleight of Hand- the four other U cantrips all see great play. I might be interested in a fifth one, but it seems much weaker than the rest and blue is difficult to find cuts in.
About counters - yes you play all the good ones, but I often find control decks not having enough counters. Blue based control will be too inconsistent.
Omniscience - when you cut the chance to get all that by half, that's probably not good enough.
I think I'll go Craterhoof Behemoth -> Genesis Wave then. Behemoth doesn't help much when you are behind, and doesn't work well with creature based acceleration.
About counters - yes you play all the good ones, but I often find control decks not having enough counters. Blue based control will be too inconsistent.
It might be. I'm okay with blue being more balanced on power level with the other colors though. We'll see how it plays out, and if the cube needs more counters we can always add them later.
Omniscience - when you cut the chance to get all that by half, that's probably not good enough.
Yeah, it was only decent at 360. I'm just adding in anything that can even remotely support storm to see if the archetype is actually viable at 720. If it is viable, I can always remove cards later and Replenish/Omniscience may be among the first ones to be removed.
Also, I need help finding more storm cards that may be playable in a large cube. Right now, I'm playing literally every single storm card I can possibly think of that could be even remotely decent (yes, some of them are pretty bad, like Astral Steel).
I could use some help finding any type of card that could go in a storm deck I'm not currently playing.
I'll have the new updated cube list and everything soon.
CUBE TOP 10 - Help us vote for the best cards in cube
CUBE TOP 10 - Help us vote for the best cards in cube
CUBE TOP 10 - Help us vote for the best cards in cube
CUBE TOP 10 - Help us vote for the best cards in cube
Yep! It's in the main cube forum.
CUBE TOP 10 - Help us vote for the best cards in cube
Hmmm... that's a small list of pretty bad black 1-drops. I think you can do better than those. I do like Ruthless Ripper and Disowned Ancestor (although it's definitely not an aggro card), and Putrid Imp if you're supporting reanimator. Cubetutor is down right now, so I assume you already have all the 2-power one drops that are in most smaller cubes. Here are some more that I like better than what's on your list besides the usual 2-power one drops, ranked:
Entrails Feaster (I ran this card for a while in the early days of my cube, you'd be surprised how big it can get for a one-drop. IMHO, you should run this over any black one drop that doesn't do much more than attack for one)
Carrion Feeder
Cruel Sadist
Guul Draz Vampire
Thrull Parasite (extort is really nice for reach)
For red:
Stonewright (I like this better than everything in your list)
Spikeshot Elder
Gorilla Shaman
Gobin Patrol
For white I'd go with Boros Elite and the two tappers, and I guess I'd try Herald of Anafenza if you're supporting tokens.
In green, Experiment One is probably the best green one drop of all time. After that I'd go with Wolfbitten Captive, Wild Dogs, and Ulvenwald Tracker. If you're trying to support turboland ramp, I'd run Skyshroud Ranger and/or Sakura Tribe Scout over Elvish Pioneer.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
I will definitely consider Thrull Parasite. Extort can be good in almost any stage of the game, and his ability is certainly not irrelevant. Entrails Feaster seems more like a 2-5 drop than an actual one drop, since you have to tap him and guys have to die for him to get any type of real value.
I like Elvish Pioneer a little more since it ramps you immediately instead of having to wait a turn, but it's probably irrelevant most of the time anyway. I actually don't think I'm going to be going with that subset anyway the more I think about it, since there are enough mana dorks in a 720.
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Festering Goblin
Festering Newt
Fume Spitter
Guul Draz Assassin
Pulse Tracker
Putrid Imp
Ruthless Ripper
Thrull Parasite
Tormented Soul
Viscera Seer
Akrasan Squire
Benevolent Bodyguard
Boros Elite
Deftblade Elite
Doomed Traveler
Gideon's Lawkeeper
Goldmeadow Harrier
Herald of Anafenza
Hopeful Eidolon
Nyxborn Shieldmate
Soltari Foot Soldier
I went with the Foot Soldier because he's kind of like a Tormented Soul for white. If he doesn't work out, I'll try Herald of Anafenza.
Fire Bowman
Foundry Street Denizen
Frenzied Goblin
Frostling
Goblin Arsonist
Goblin Cadets
Goblin Cohort
Goblin Fireslinger
Goblin Gaveleer
Goblin Lackey
Goblin Patrol
Goblin Sledder
Goblin Vandal
Gorilla Shaman
Intimidator Initiate
Mogg Conscripts
Mogg Raider
Spikeshot Elder
Vexing Devil
I'm actually going to cut Magus of the Scroll for Frenzied Goblin, since Magus of the Scroll isn't really a one drop that contributes to swinging that much.
Basking Rootwalla
Elvish Pioneer
Experiment One
Ghazbán Ogre
Pouncing Jaguar
Rogue Elephant
Scythe Tiger
Twinblade Slasher
Ulvenwald Tracker
Veteran Explorer
Wasteland Viper
Wild Dogs
Wolfbitten Captive
I'm doing the three ones that were voted on almost unanimously, and then also adding in Basking Rootwalla. Rootwalla can randomly get the job done via discard outlets, and I like rewarding synergistic deckbuilding via drafting discard outlets.
CUBE TOP 10 - Help us vote for the best cards in cube
While you are hard pressed to duplicate the same density of quality one-drops as say 360 or 450, I don't think you need dig quite as deep as some of the cards you listed. A good cheat you might consider is including Tattermunge Maniac, Militant Dryad, Kird Ape, and other multi-color and hybrid one-drops as mono-colored so that they don't compete for slots with powerful multi-color cards.
At one time or another I have tested most of the one-drops you list.
For Black:
Fume Spitter
Putrid Imp
Visera Seer
None of the rest worked out well.
White:
Akrasan Squire
Harrier
Lawkeeper
Red:
Spikeshot Elder
Gorilla Shaman
Vexing Devil
Green:
Wild Dogs
Ulvanwald Tracker
Experiment One
Wolfbitten Captive
And if you haven't considered it Tinder Wall is pretty awesome.
Etali, Primal Storm EDH
I'm including all of the cards you listed, and I'm classifying some of them in guild (Dryad Militant, Tattermunge) while I'm giving some of them their special section (Kird Ape, Loam Lion, Wild Nac), in addition to trying for ~15 aggressive one drops. I think that density will help aggro a lot compared to something like the MODO cube.
Oh yeah, Tinder Wall is definitely included as we're supporting storm. He's almost good enough for 360 powered, actually (but I don't want to include him in the aggro suite, although I am including the mana dorks).
I'll go back up and look at if I can remove anything to put in some of your suggestions.
How has Vexing Devil been?
CUBE TOP 10 - Help us vote for the best cards in cube
I cut it a while back as just not proactive enough. I like even Legion Loyalist and the new Swiftspear better, both of which I consider about the cut off point for playables.
Etali, Primal Storm EDH
The list is starting to come together. I went through and did the guild and colorless sections. I may still be missing some cards I want in there, but I think those are pretty close to solid.
Starting to cut the chaff from the other colors now. Harder than it looks for sure.
How is the fixing in your cube? Do you have too much of it, or is it at a good point? I may need to cut 10 additional cards from mono-colored to get the tri-lands in.
CUBE TOP 10 - Help us vote for the best cards in cube
White:
Skyjek
8 1/2
Knight
Nearhearth
Captain
Priest
Black:
Knight
Cutthroat
Interloper
Red:
Kargan (I can't think of another two-drop that can dominate the board like this guy, 8 1/2 Tails maybe, the CC is totally worth it for both of them.)
Fiend/Reveler (I play 6-7 aritfact destruction per color in RWG to keep swords/jitte in check.)
Green:
Viper
Druid (a must if you want to support green ramp)
Kudzu
River Boa
I actually like all the guys you listed. If you play Champion of the Parish I'd switch Mayor for River Boa for extra human support. Beastbreaker of Bala Ged is also deceptively good.
With regards to fixing, I recently added a seventh guild land for each color to slightly depress their draft value. I'd rather have them be 5th-10th pick rather than 1-5. I found only green was ever able to make a third color splash with 60 (maybe the way it ought to be, but that's another story). I also play 10 five color lands, and currently no tri-color. But I could see sticking with 60 guild and playing the tri-colors, which would depend on how much you want to support 3+color decks as it would be either those or usually the Karoos as 7th best guild land.
I try my best to keep green's fixing and ramp abilities relevant so I only play seven color fixing artifacts, Gilded Lotus, Coalition Relic, Chromantic Lantern, Izzet, Dimir, and Azorius Signets and Mox Diamond (technically Black Lotus could count but I think of it more as a ritual effect). I have been looking to add maybe 2 or 3 more mana rocks (to get to 25 total) but haven't found the space yet.
Etali, Primal Storm EDH
I actually really like Beastbreaker, we used to play him a few years ago in my old 540 and I was never upset to see him in an aggressive deck, especially one that plays mana dorks too. You can really get a lot out of the mana. I'm going to add him in and take something else out just to really support aggro more.
Here is the list again. I've bolded my adds (really I'm cutting the other ones, but same difference).
Daring Skyjek
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kami of Ancient Law
Knight of Glory
Loyal Cathar
Nearheath Pilgrim
Precinct Captain
Soltari Monk
Soltari Priest
Syndic of Tithes
Spirit of the Labyrinth
I think these are pretty solid additions. I like Syndic the most out of the other options, and Kami next just to deal with potential enchantments.
Fledgling Djinn
Gloom Surgeon
Knight of Infamy
Nezumi Cutthroat
Thrill-Kill Assassin
Vampire Interloper
It's a toss-up between the Djinn and Cutthroat for me as well, but I like that the Cutthroat doesn't self-damage.
Ashmouth Hound
Hearth Kami
Kargan Dragonlord
Kruin Striker
Reckless Reveler
Torch Fiend
Eidolon of the Great Revel
Mogis's Warhound
I may need to add in the Reveler if artifacts are too strong. Eidolon and Warhound are next on my preference list.
Ambush Viper
Devoted Druid
Mayor of Avabruck
Mire Boa
River Boa
Strangleroot Geist
Vinelasher Kudzu
I'm going to add Beastbreaker as well and try to find something else for his spot.
CUBE TOP 10 - Help us vote for the best cards in cube
CUBE TOP 10 - Help us vote for the best cards in cube
Fleshbag
Lifebane (the best of those listed by a wide margin)
Green:
Vigilante (flexabilty is the attraction, sees a lot of play, nice to have the option of avoiding nuking your own stuff)
Somberwald (turn one elf, turn two sage, turn three seven drop not uncommon, this is a removal magnet)
Boon Saytr as alternate, but not a must so long as you play Briarhorn
Etali, Primal Storm EDH
My chosen cards in bold.
Fleshbag Marauder
Phyrexian Rager
Lifebane Zombie
Liliana's Specter
Xathrid Necromancer
Boon Satyr
Nantuko Vigilante
Primordial Hydra
Somberwald Sage
Uktabi Orangutan
Unanimous decisions are sweet.
CUBE TOP 10 - Help us vote for the best cards in cube
http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/18787
These cuts are surprisingly really difficult. I'm not cutting storm cards right now (I want to play with everything, if it's too much I'll scale back). Moment's Peace and Oath of Druids are uncuttable at this point (storm). Aggro cuts are also very difficult.
CUBE TOP 10 - Help us vote for the best cards in cube
I have a large cube for over five years. In my cube aggro works really well, in many years it was the dominant strategy. My advice is not to just double on the amount of one drops you had in a small cube. Many of the one drop you play are unplayable and will not make aggro decks stronger or more common - they will just sit on the sidelines. If you cube with a large table, the one drop will anyway pass through to the people who do draft aggro. I play more two and three drops than you do in the aggressive colors btw.
Supporting storm in a large cube seems ambitious. I'm interested to see if it's working out!
Deceiver Exarch/Splinter Twin combo package - In a large cube the combo pieces are likely not to be present at the draft at all and I don't think they are playable on their own.
Sleight of Hand - Do you think it's good enough without storm support?
I think Kor Hookmaster is better than Mentor of the Meek. You get a lot of tempo from it, and mentor, while has potential for card advantage, is expensive and fragile. Hookmaster is a great follow up for turn one one drop, turn two two drop. I know it doesn't appear to be very attractive, but it performed well here.
Why Triplicate Spirits? In which deck does it fit?
Invisible Stalker - The concentration of good equipments drops hard, this card loses too much of its value.
Riftwing Cloudskate - how good is it after turn two? If it's good I'll add it too, as blue aggro is fairly new in my cube.
I think Jace, Architect of Thought is good enough to make the cut easily (even if it's the fourth jace).
You play very few counterspells. I know it might be a conscious decision, but it will hurt control severely.
Treasure Cruise - I plan to try it too.
Omniscience - How do you cheat it? Show and Tell, Academy Rector, what else?
Mana Flare/Heartbeat of Spring - don't they backfire too often? Especially as your cube has both super ramp and storm?
I think you have too few green super fatties. I am playing more than you, and I think of adding another one. Craterhoof Behemoth is not very good though, don't add that.
Genesis Wave - did you play it in your small cube? How much does X need to be to be worth it?
Mana Reflection - isn't costing six and not affecting the board too much to ask for a sorcery speed card?
Red cut - Spikeshot Elder. Green cuts - Boon Satyr, River Boa or Vengevine.
Mystic Gate - the whole cycle is worse than the Glacial Fortress cycle. Mystic Gate doesn't allow to split mana between phases and turns, they are bad in multiples and the option of producing colorless in bad draws is much worse than the land ETBT, as at least you would still be able to cast your spells.
Shrine of Burning Rage - I'd count this as a red card.
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
Hey Metamind! I actually used your cube as a template (along with one or two other people) for adding cards in initially, so I just threw a ton of stuff in the cube (I think it was 870 cards) and then started cutting stuff.
I want to start off by keeping the numbers high and then make cuts if we need them. I want to make sure aggressive decks are viable and interactive. If we don't need them, we'll cut them, or if aggro is too strong. I've intentionally cut some of the cards that are really strong against aggro (Pyroclasm, Spellskite) just to make sure the archetype is viable.
If aggro is too strong, we can make adjustments in multiple ways, so I'm excited to see how the format will evolve. Supporting storm also makes me want to make the overall kill turn for most decks a little slower, but I don't want the MODO cube phenomenon where nearly every winning deck is mid-range or control.
Yeah, I have a lot of experience with storm at 360, and a good amount at 540. Trying to get enough experience at 720 to write the last part of a Storm primer. Having experience with the archetype in a small, medium, and large sized cube is a good asset for the community at large, IMO.
Yeah, I actually cut all of these just to get the numbers down.
No idea. I am supporting storm though, so I do want to have it in there.
Mentor is one of the few ways for the white aggressive deck to gain cards. I also like how it's another human for Champion. I'm going to keep it in for now, but I may add Kor Hookmaster to test it soon. Thanks for the report on how well he's doing.
Anthem.dec. A guy in my playgroup really wants to try it. I'm not opposed to that.
Yeah, I'm iffy on this guy. I like how he's a source of for-sure reach that works well with equipments, but I actually don't like how uninteractive it is when he does get equipped. I was including him because I figured he would be mad strong, but I'm not playing that many equipment to begin with.
I have no idea. Haven't played with the cube at all yet. It's a worse Mist Raven for sure unless you're suspending it, but in the MODO cube it's never been a bad card.
I'll try to find a cut for him.
This is a conscious decision. I left all the great counterspells in. I want to make sure storm can function decently initially. If it shows it can be a decent deck, we can bring back in some counterspells as well as cut some storm support. Storm takes out a good amount of blue cards, so cutting counterspells for the storm cards seem like a pretty easy swap. The counterspells I took out are fine, but it's not like I'm dropping Mana Drain or Remand.
It's been good at 540. It's mainly in there for storm, but can see play in almost any blue deck.
Discard (or Entomb) + Replenish. We played with this combo in 360, it's pretty decent. There's a lot of tutors for all these pieces. Mystical or Personal tutor can get the Replenish, and Enlightened Tutor, Idyllic Tutor, etc can get the Omniscience.
It can also be cast off of Dream Halls, which sounds ridiculous, but sometimes going Dream Halls -> pitch blue card to cast Omniscience -> Wheel of Fortune is a game winner.
They're mainly for storm, but super-ramp can use them too. They are the 3rd and 4th worst of the mana-doublers (Mana Reflection is the worst one), but I want to have a critical mass of them. Honestly, 5 at 720 may be wayyyyy too few. I played 4 at 360.
I agree entirely. Not exactly sure what to do here, especially as I still need to make some green cuts which are difficult.
Yeah, it's surprisingly pretty sweet. X=5 and above is the sweet spot, but 4 isn't horrible either.
Yeah, it's pretty bad. It's not as bad as some other mana doublers, but I need the critical mass, especially with this large cube size.
Thanks for the suggestions!
Hmm. I figured Mystic Gate would be better, since it allows me to cast wraths with 2 island + colorless land + mystic gate, or double blue spells with 2 plains + colorless land + mystic gate.
I'll keep this in consideration if I don't see that coming up too often.
Oh, there are a lot of things in this classification system that can be counted a lot of different ways.
CUBE TOP 10 - Help us vote for the best cards in cube
About counters - yes you play all the good ones, but I often find control decks not having enough counters. Blue based control will be too inconsistent.
Omniscience - when you cut the chance to get all that by half, that's probably not good enough.
I think I'll go Craterhoof Behemoth -> Genesis Wave then. Behemoth doesn't help much when you are behind, and doesn't work well with creature based acceleration.
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
It might be. I'm okay with blue being more balanced on power level with the other colors though. We'll see how it plays out, and if the cube needs more counters we can always add them later.
Yeah, it was only decent at 360. I'm just adding in anything that can even remotely support storm to see if the archetype is actually viable at 720. If it is viable, I can always remove cards later and Replenish/Omniscience may be among the first ones to be removed.
CUBE TOP 10 - Help us vote for the best cards in cube
I'm reposting it here too:
Thank you to everyone helping me build my 720! The help is extremely appreciated and valuable. Couldn't do it without you guys.
I have an idea for what I want my last cuts to be, but I'd like to get the community's opinions.
List here if you want to see what I'm working with: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/18787
Cut 3:
- Pithing Needle
- Coldsteel Heart
- Oblivion Stone
- Perilous Myr
- Spellskite
- Razormane Masticore
Cut 4:- Boreal Druid
- Elves of Deep Shadow
- River Boa
- Phantom Centaur
- Vorapede
- Garruk, Primal Hunter
- Genesis Wave
Cut 1:- Kargan Dragonlord
- Zealous Conscripts
Cut 2:- Pulse Tracker
- Knight of Infamy
- Pain Seer
- Fleshbag Marauder
- Lifebane Zombie
- Graveborn Muse
- Consuming Vapors
- Diabolic Servitude
- Whip of Erebos
Cut 3:- Riftwing Cloudskate
- Keiga, the Tide Star
- Jace, Memory Adept
- Psionic Blast
- Compulsive Research
Cut 2:CUBE TOP 10 - Help us vote for the best cards in cube
I could use some help finding any type of card that could go in a storm deck I'm not currently playing.
The list is here, purple tagged cards are Storm Support: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/18787
CUBE TOP 10 - Help us vote for the best cards in cube