MTG Salvation

As of March 14th 2014, I will no longer be keeping this post updated.

Please view my up-to-date list on CubeTutor!

http://cubetutor.com/cubeblog/4885

Discussion and suggestions are still welcome.

Reserved

White looks great. The only notable exclusion is Elspeth, Knight-Errant, which I think is more of a budget thing than anything else.

Blue has a few cards in it I think you could pass on at 360, namely Deprive, Negate and Power Sink. Daze, Repeal and Condescend are cheap additions that could replace those cards and give you an immediate bump in performance.

Black also looks pretty standard. I'd pass on Rain of Tears unless you have a big LD theme, and Dark Tutelage isn't an effect you wanna spend 3 mana on. I realize that they're placeholders for Sinkhole and Dark Confidant respectively, but I'd try and find something else altogether until they're acquired.

Red looks great. I'd move Blistering Firecat out of the Two CMC section, and consider replacing Firebrand Chandra with Chandra 1.0.

In green, I like Woodfall Primus, Hornet Queen, Pelakka Wurm and Prime Time more than Terastodon. Skinshifter would be my first cut when you get one of the missing expensive cards like Garruk, Survival or Sylvan Library.

I like Absorb more than anyone else in this forum, but you can't run it over Detention Sphere or Supreme Verdict. Terminate should become Dreadbore when you can acquire one. Mortify for Vindicate, which is probably a placeholder already. But the rest of the gold section is awesome.

I don't think all 10 Signets are necessary. I'd remove them for more good lands, extra utility effects and generic mana rocks that can be used in everything effectively.

..........

Fantastic looking cube man. Good work on a preliminary list. One of the best first drafts I think I've seen.

Cheers, and happy cubing!

Hey wtwlf123! Thank you so much for your feedback! It means alot coming from one of the cube veterans here at MTGSalvation!

Quote from wtwlf123

White looks great. The only notable exclusion is Elspeth, Knight-Errant, which I think is more of a budget thing than anything else.

I actually just got back from the post office and cracked open an envelope chalk full of late night eBay deals, among them an Elspeth, Knight-Errant. I'll be making that switch sometime this afternoon.

Quote from wtwlf123

Blue has a few cards in it I think you could pass on at 360, namely Deprive, Negate and Power Sink. Daze, Repeal and Condescend are cheap additions that could replace those cards and give you an immediate bump in performance.

I totally agree with your assessment of these cards but I was at a loss as to what should go in those spots until I can get some of the real deal cards. I have a gold border Force of Will on the way that will go in but will order those 3 cards as well. Do you think I should run both Daze and FoW at 360?

Quote from wtwlf123

Black also looks pretty standard. I'd pass on Rain of Tears unless you have a big LD theme, and Dark Tutelage isn't an effect you wanna spend 3 mana on. I realize that they're placeholders for Sinkhole and Dark Confidant respectively, but I'd try and find something else altogether until they're acquired.

They are definitely placeholders and I would be more than willing to try something else. I just opened up a Damnation that can replace one of the cards. Any suggestions for the other one?

Quote from wtwlf123

Red looks great. I'd move Blistering Firecat out of the Two CMC section, and consider replacing Firebrand Chandra with Chandra 1.0.

Fixed the Firecat, thanks for that! It just happened that I've had a playset of Firebrand for ages and started playing MTG at the M12 release. I should be able to locate an original Chandra locally without much trouble.

Quote from wtwlf123

In green, I like Woodfall Primus, Hornet Queen, Pelakka Wurm and Prime Time more than Terastodon. Skinshifter would be my first cut when you get one of the missing expensive cards like Garruk, Survival or Sylvan Library.

Terastodon is definitely on my list of cards to cut and a friend of mine actually just bought a Primeval Titan to donate to the cube. That should arrive next week and I'll be able to clear out Terastodon. I'm running two of the Garruk's right now, do you think I should be running Veil-Cursed over Primal Hunter? I had a couple of them but traded them away when I stopped playing RG Aggro in standard before rotation. Gold border Survival and Genesis are on the way as well as a legitimate copy of Sylvan Library.

Quote from wtwlf123

I like Absorb more than anyone else in this forum, but you can't run it over Detention Sphere or Supreme Verdict. Terminate should become Dreadbore when you can acquire one. Mortify for Vindicate, which is probably a placeholder already. But the rest of the gold section is awesome.

I've got a single Detention Sphere that I'm playing in my UW Aggro deck right now but I would be happy to sub that into the cube. Is Celestial Colonnade the right cut? Terminate is a placeholder as well and Dreadbore has finally come down in price, so I should be able to swing it. Just got a Vindicate in the mail (made out like a BANDIT on these cards). I also have GB versions of 3/5 Onslaught fetches coming for cube and will try to get legit copies of the other two. I have a Bloodstained Mire and Wooded Foothills but can't bring myself to sub them out of my EDH decks.

Quote from wtwlf123

I don't think all 10 Signets are necessary. I'd remove them for more good lands, extra utility effects and generic mana rocks that can be used in everything effectively.

I just received a Maze of Ith from that same order, so that will go in just directly and I was planning to cut the entire signet cycle. There are GB Wasteland & Rishadan Port on the way as well and they seem like good replacements. I'm not 100% on what I will fill the other 7 spaces with though, any suggestions?

Quote from wtwlf123

Fantastic looking cube man. Good work on a preliminary list. One of the best first drafts I think I've seen.

Cheers, and happy cubing!

Thanks again!

*edit* Just made updates from package I received in the mail today! Added to changelog and cube list.

I'd cut Kor Sanctifiers instead of Legionnaire. I like the Sanctifiers, but I don't think they are strong enough for a 360 cube. You could also move it to colorless as eidolon suggests, although I doubt I'd cut Ring of Gix.

Kick Mystic Gate to the curb and keep Colonnade.

Cheers,
rant

Thanks for your replies! I think you guys are right and I've cut Kor Skyfisher in favor of Porcelain Legionnaire. I can't remember a game where the Skyfisher did anything memorable but the Legionnaire is generally a solid threat. I also went back to the Azorius section and cut Absorb in favor of Celestial Colonnade. We've had fun with Absorb, so I was reluctant to cut it but Celestial Colonnade is a dual purpose card and has a more unique effect to the cube on a whole. I have a bunch more cards that should be here throughout the week this week and will post back as I make changes!

I'll also try to get the deckstats link fixed up but it might be just as well to wait until my other cards come in the mail, we'll see!

I like Kor Skyfisher quite a bit more than several other white cards. I don't consider it to be a cuttable creature.

And ya, cutting Absorb to keep Colonnade is the right call.

Quote from wtwlf123

I like Kor Skyfisher quite a bit more than several other white cards. I don't consider it to be a cuttable creature.

And ya, cutting Absorb to keep Colonnade is the right call.

When my other cards get here and I drop the signets, there will be room in the colorless section to make some changes. Would you suggest moving Legionnaire into colorless at that time and bringing back Skyfisher? I also wanted to ask, would you run both Verdict and Sphere or just one or the other? I guess, are both of those cards better than Colonnade or is it here to stay?

I think Colonnade is probably the best W/U card. So I'd say it's here to stay. I'd keep Legionnaire in the cube, no matter how you decide to classify it. I personally would keep Skyfisher, but not everyone agrees. It's a debated card for unpowered cubes. But I think it does a ton of stuff for 2-mana, and I believe it's one of the best white 2-drops.

Quick update for today! Sylvan Library and Enlightened Tutor showed up in the mail. They replaced Skinshifter and Seal of Cleansing respectively. Cuts based on previous advice and Eidolon's functional recommendations.

I'll bring Skyfisher back when I drop the signet cycle, hopefully later this week.

Stay tuned as more cards come in this week and the bigger change to my colorless section is completed! I'll try to work on this thread a bit when I get a chance as well; maybe some graphics and/or photos of my cube + wood storage box!

FWIW, I'd play Seal of Cleansing over Kor Sanctifiers in this cube. It comes down sooner, makes opponents reconsider their art/ench plays, and interacts nicely with Sun Titan--and the Enlightened Tutor you just added. Kor Sanctifiers is a good card, but I wouldn't run it at 360, especially in a budget-ish cube.

I love me some Pouncing Jaguar but if you aren't pushing aggro in green, it's a good cut for the Library. I'd still cut Skinshifter but I'd replace it with Mire Boa, Albino Troll, or Mayor of Avabruck.

Cheers,
rant

Quote from rantipole

FWIW, I'd play Seal of Cleansing over Kor Sanctifiers in this cube. It comes down sooner, makes opponents reconsider their art/ench plays, and interacts nicely with Sun Titan--and the Enlightened Tutor you just added. Kor Sanctifiers is a good card, but I wouldn't run it at 360, especially in a budget-ish cube.

I love me some Pouncing Jaguar but if you aren't pushing aggro in green, it's a good cut for the Library. I'd still cut Skinshifter but I'd replace it with Mire Boa, Albino Troll, or Mayor of Avabruck.

Cheers,
rant

It's funny you mention that because in our last cube draft, I played boros and was able to pull off the Sun Titan + Seal of Cleansing chain a couple of times. I won a game that I had no business winning because I was able to clear a few threats with it. I like the card and I think it's pretty good for 1W but I'm having a really hard time making cuts in the sections that have most of the staple inclusions already. I guess my knowledge base is pretty limited right now and that was part of my motivation to get my list up on the forums. A big thank you to everyone for your help so far!

Green has been a really weak color in our drafts so I'm definitely open to suggestions. Personally, I've found Skinshifter to be a really interesting card but it was first on my list for cuts before I posted to the forums as well. Seems like I was on the right track, we just need to find the right replacement. I looked at Albino Troll but with echo, wouldn't Wolfir Avenger be just as good for one less mana in the long run? I could be way off base here and if I am, just let me know. I have a playset of mayors kicking around so that would be an easy inclusion for me if it has merit. There are only 27 other humans in the cube; is this enough to warrant his inclusion for the front side ability? The back side is really interesting and the wolves definitely helped me out in a few standard games last season. Thoughts?

There are divided opinions on Wolfir Avenger vs. Albino Troll. I think most people prefer Avenger, but I like that the Troll comes down earlier to block and attack. Few creatures can contend with a 3/3 on turn 2.

I don't run the Mayor in my cube, but he's coming in the next time I do an update (probably replacing Albino Troll or Mire Boa). I don't think the human boosting part is the best part of him; you want him to flip and make wolves.

I don't consider Kor Sanctifiers a staple at 360. Additionally, I like the 2-drop option over the 4-drop option. If Sanctifiers would blink I'd like it more.

Cheers,
rant

I'd keep Seal of Cleansing with the introduction of Enlightened Tutor. If you can, of course. Cuts are hard at 360.

So, based on the need to cut artifact hate per Eidolon's stats and the desire to keep Seal of Cleansing, is the cut Kor Sanctifiers? I thought I had the white section pretty well figured out but that Elspeth, Knight-Errant really threw a wrench in things!

Also, have we decided that Pouncing Jaguar is out of place in the list?

Thanks again everyone!

It depends. How is it playing out? Do you feel like the quantity of the disenchant effects is adequate, or do you need more?

I like Seal more than Revoke. It can be targeted by Enlightened Tutor, chained with Sun Titan and it can be played in front of the potential targets to prevent artifacts and enchantments with immediate impacts on the board from ravaging you. It's particularly important to do this in games 2 and 3 when you know what your opponent may have waiting to surprise you with. It's especially vital against Swords.

I think there are probably enough disenchant effects. Given that we are a smaller group, they don't always come up in draft though. There have definitely been games where the first person to draft a sword ultimately wins but lots of games where they have been manageable. We haven't had a chance to play for a couple of weeks due to work schedules so I don't have any recent examples.

I got a bunch of GB cards yesterday for the colorless reworking but I'm probably going to wait for my other package to come before I start making the changes. The other package has a GB Rishadan Port that I'm excited to try out!

I love Port in cube. It's so deceptively powerful.

Hey everyone! A few more updates for those interested!

Out -> In

Guild:
Sungrass Prairie -> Windswept Heath
Mystic Gate -> Flooded Strand
Shadowblood Ridge -> Bloodstained Mire

I'm working towards a Fetch, Shock & Tap configuration for fixing lands in the guild section. Almost there!

White:
Cloistered Youth -> Kor Skyfisher

I decided that if I was going to keep Lone Missionary in the cube at 360 it makes more sense to keep the Kor Skyfisher than the Cloistered Youth, which seems like a borderline card.

Green:
Terastodon -> Primeval Titan
Pouncing Jaguar -> Mayor of Avabruck
Blastoderm -> Survival of the Fittest
Nantuko Vigilante -> Genesis
Thornling -> Green Sun's Zenith

Most of these changes are based on feedback from this thread plus a few planned cuts of placeholder type cards for better ones. I'm sad to see Thornling go; maybe I'll bring it back. Who knows?

Black:
Rain of Tears -> Recurring Nightmare

Seems like a good cut & was discussed already in the thread.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's all for now! I have more in store but am waiting for a few more cards to come in before I start moving things around. Does anyone have any thoughts on these changes? Are there any glaring errors?

Quote from eidolon232

Enough- sure, but they could be better distributed among the colors.

Hey Eidolon! Those types of effects definitely have multiple uses in the cube/decks, the sword example was just the first to come to mind. I was curious about the distribution as you've mentioned; are there any colors that are too heavy with those effects and others that are too light? I was hoping you could give me some examples of this and/or some suggestions as to what I can move around to balance out these issues. Cheers!

Your land and black changes are great.

Quote from USAstrat

White:
Cloistered Youth -> Kor Skyfisher

Like sexy said, I'd try to keep all three cards. If I had to cut one, it would probably be Missionary.

Quote from USAstrat

Green:
Terastodon -> Primeval Titan
Pouncing Jaguar -> Mayor of Avabruck
Blastoderm -> Survival of the Fittest
Nantuko Vigilante -> Genesis
Thornling -> Green Sun's Zenith

Mostly this is very good. I really like Vigilante and Thornling. I'd keep them over Bramblecrush, Birthing Pod, and/or Deadbridge Goliath.

Cheers,
rant

I think the Cloistered Youth cut is fine. I also think it's the worst of those three cards. By a pretty fair margin, actually. It's probably the next 2-drop I'd cut in white from my cube, which is 500 cards, so I think it's a fine cut here.

Thank you all for your responses! I'll try to track down another Thragtusk as I traded mine away a few weeks ago. My playgroup was satisfied with the Cloistered Youth cut, as none of them really liked the card anyway. Some of the green changes were in anticipation of today's update and you'll see that I've now cut Deadbridge Goliath as well. Huge update today and I'm not 100% confident in all of the changes, so I would appreciate your advice as we will get to draft the new cube next week!

19 November 2012
Power Sink -> Condescend
Deprive -> Daze
Negate -> Force of Will
Mind Control -> Treachery
Coralhelm Commander -> Enclave Cryptologist
Morphling -> Cryptic Command
Keiga, the Tide Star -> Jace, Memory Adept

Despise -> Inquisition of Kozilek
Doom Blade -> Bitterblossom
Exhume -> Yawgmoth's Will
Terror -> Demonic Tutor

Chandra, the Firebrand -> Chandra Nalaar

Deadbridge Goliath -> Woodfall Primus

Terminate -> Dreadbore

Azorius Signet -> Wasteland
Boros Signet -> Rishadan Port
Dimir Signet -> Ancient Tomb
Golgari Signet -> Gemstone Mine
Gruul Signet -> Everflowing Chalice
Izzet Signet -> Chromatic Lantern
Orzhov Signet -> Mimic Vat
Rakdos Signet -> Scroll Rack
Selesnya Signet -> Lodestone Golem
Simic Signet -> Razormane Masticore

There are a lot of planned cuts here but I also revamped the colorless section a bit by taking out the signet cycle. I'm not really sure if the new choices are a slamdunk and feel the same way about some of the blue section. I ordered both a Repeal and a Thirst for Knowledge but couldn't find a place for them with the other changes. Do you folks think they are necessary at 360 in this cube, given the other changes? Thanks everyone!

I like everything you did here except the cuts of Exhume and Morphling, although, at 360, both may be expendable. I like Morphling more than Jace 3.0, but I'm sure not everyone agrees.

I push reanimator in my cube, so Exhume is a favorite (probably the second best spell for a tricked out reanimator deck). Without that push, it is likely not that great. I would keep it over Contagion and possibly Ob Nixilis.

I don't think Repeal and Thirst for Knowledge are good enough for most 360s. I don't see anything on your list I'd definitely cut for those two cards.

Cheers,
rant