MTG Salvation

Hi all. I'm trying to make my first cube as I met a number of people in college interested in casual magic. I'm making this cube wholly out of my bankroll, which means i'm currently limited in my card pool. The vast majority of my cards are Lorwyn block and beyond. I'm willing to spend some money to fill out holes in my cube, but probably not more than 200. Currently I only have all my rares listed, and am going to try to figure out a whole cube to buy. Any add/remove/replace suggestions would be great.

Cube Info

White - 57 Cards (2.7 average CMC)

Blue - 59 Cards (3.26 average CMC)


Black - 55 Cards (3.41 average CMC)


Red - 55 cards (3.44 average CMC)


Green - 56 cards (3.02 average CMC)


Multicolor - 25 Cards


Want to get Dromar and Crosis to replace Magister and Sedraxis, but relatively happy with the multicolor.

Artifact/Colorless - 32 Cards (3.19 average CMC)


Unfortunately, they did not have all the signets I needed, and only had a Talisman of Unity. As soon as possible, I will remove the talisman and have a full set of signets.

Lands


Total - 366

My collection is pretty meager on the monocolored, but that's why I'm planning to spend some money. I also have about 10 green rares and 5 blue rares that I misplaced and will add them to my list when i find them.

As for multicolor which is clearly dominating my current cardpool. While it might be easier to do a multicolor themed cube, I don't think that would be very enjoyable to draft over and over. I'm planning 3 cards of each 2 color combination, and 2 cards of each shard.

On top of all the rares I listed, I also have pretty much every common and uncommon from Lorwyn, Shadowmoor, Eventide, Shards, Conflux, Zendikar and M10. I also have some older stuff (like Invasion block and mercadian masques from when i started).

Some of my thoughts on how to expand were to give all the colors tribal subthemes which would be relatively inexpensive considering i have a bunch of kor and vampires from zendikar and can do elves/merfolk/goblins to fill out the other three colors. But i'd rather not dominate the cube with tribal subthemes because I really didn't like drafting lorwyn (waaay too linear for my tastes) and this is really supposed to be fun. Though if i could somehow fit in the Kavu tribe i'd be extremely happy :D.

Edit: Finished everything but lands and artifacts

I'll echo the idea of looking at the other cubes. You can copy the lists from the "cube comparison result" thread and paste it right back into deckstats.net, and look at all the commons and uncommons. There are a good number of decent cards in the latest sets that you can fill up traditional spots with in your cube. Looking at the peasant/pauper cubes (not included in the comparison thread) for other cheap options is good too.

The most important thing is getting it initially playable with the right number of creatures/spells. Then just use your money wisely when you start upgrading. Every time you think about a purchase, think about whether it's better to get that one insanely good card, or maybe getting 3 or 4 'good' cards. (For instance, if you pull a Gideon out of a booster pack like I did, and aren't using him for tournament play, trade him away for sh'loads of other cards that are collectively more important).

I threw in the Ravnica Karoo Lands and Signets. I have a few of them but not all. I also need to pick up a Jace Beleren (cant afford the Mind Sculptor) and a Miss Vess so that each color has a planeswalker.

Looking at the colors as they are so far, I'm forseeing these being the three main archetypes (and there being at least a couple i am not seeing):

BR Discard Aggro: Aggressive, aims to put everything it can into the graveyard and hurt the player while they're at it.

UW control-ish: Stalls until it can hit the topheavy blue and white boom-booms to end it. Also receives card advantage from Elspeth's tokens and Jace.

Green splasher: Runs main green with mises of all of the lands and tries to play as many diverse powerful cards as it can.

Edit: If anyone would like to critique my white, tis complete.

So, I've finished the cube (sans 5 artifacts which I haven't decided what to put in those slots) and put deckstats for the 5 colors. I've noticed that with the exception of white hovering at 2.8 average CMC, the others hover around 3.5. In anyones opinion is it dangerous to have a .7 average CMC difference? It seems to me like WW might be a powerful, aggressive archetype, but i'm a little worried it might be too powerful.

EDIT: Regarding CMC, white is looking good if it's below 3. On first glance you have a lot of cards with 6+ CMC in the other colors. I would take a VERY hard look at those cards and determine which ones will actually work well. If it isn't a must-answer bomb (like a 5/5 dragon with abilities for 6 mana, or swarm tokens, or deal tons of damage) or win the game outright (for 7+ mana) it's probably a good card to cut.

So I've discovered that the cards i need will probably run me around 147.27 which is heathily within budget constraints.

Yeah, I have a lot of random 6+ cmc rares. Not entirely sure why they make up the majority of my collection haha. I think I have some cards to drop the CMC, I'll have to check my options though.

Does anyone think the vampire tribe subtheme in black is too powerful? I'm worried it will ovverride any other black drafting strategies outside of random splashes.

Quote from Scrapjack

Does anyone think the vampire tribe subtheme in black is too powerful? I'm worried it will ovverride any other black drafting strategies outside of random splashes.

no i don't think it's too powerful. how many vampire matters cards do you have in there, anyway? i only see a couple.

Yeah, but theres a lot of vampires which means that people might focus the theme rather than black itself. But with only a couple, it may be black that doesnt really care about the tribe but eh, it helps.

Even if you did a full vampire theme with all the vampire lord cards and so fourth, it wouldn't be close to "overpowered" from a cube sense. In fact, I think black would be a lot weaker by sticking to tribal guys instead of simply including all the best black creatures.

Quote from wtwlf123

Even if you did a full vampire theme with all the vampire lord cards and so fourth, it wouldn't be close to "overpowered" from a cube sense. In fact, I think black would be a lot weaker by sticking to tribal guys instead of simply including all the best black creatures.

I don't think i properly enunciated my fears. I was afraid a decent tribal theme in a color would overpower any other strategies involving the color (outside of a splash).

A card i'm looking at cutting is Shimian Specter. I can't tell if its underpowered or overpowered. On one hand, it basically thoughtsiezes them without the lifeloss. But on the other hand, since the cube essentially creates a highlander format (with less cards), its ability to strip that card from the deck is meaningless unless you want to see what your opponent has in their deck.

Quote from Scrapjack

A card i'm looking at cutting is Shimian Specter. I can't tell if its underpowered or overpowered. On one hand, it basically thoughtsiezes them without the lifeloss.

i wouldn't compare it to thoughtseize. thoughtseize is good because it costs 1. distress is thoughtseize without the lifeloss, and nobody plays it, and specter isn't going to do its thing until turn 5. i'd rather pay 1 less and get the random discard with hypnotic specter, or pay red and get haste with blazing specter. i don't think it's bad, but overpowered isn't the word for this one.

Quote from quitequieter

i wouldn't compare it to thoughtseize. thoughtseize is good because it costs 1. distress is thoughtseize without the lifeloss, and nobody plays it, and specter isn't going to do its thing until turn 5. i'd rather pay 1 less and get the random discard with hypnotic specter, or pay red and get haste with blazing specter. i don't think it's bad, but overpowered isn't the word for this one.

Yeah, I was thinking in the bomb intensive format that a cube is, being able to tactically remove their most needed cards from their hand could be a very potent combination.

I have some other considerations for switches.

Guul Draz Vampire for Quag Vampires: Multikicker means it can have a devestating effect the further into the game you are, and fits into the discard theme. (Edit: It's not Quag vampires, but I don't want to look it up right now. The multikicker vampire that makes the opponent discard for each time you kick it)

Cabal Conditioning for Mind Sludge: Seems like a cheaper and better alternative that encourages monoblack while at the same time lowering the curve.

Diabolic Tutor for Hypnotic Specter: This shifts the balance a little bit more towards creatures which I don't really mind because my playgroup far prefers creatures to spells. It also reinforces the discard theme and lowers the curve. Diabolic tutor is really there to be a poor man's demonic tutor (which is why I accidentally wrote demonic tutor)

Rise from the Grave for Beacon of Unrest: Beacon reinforces black and is reusable, very handy when you're making them discard a bunch of cards.

Cards I just Want to Fit In
Endless Whispers: This card seems fun and inexpensive. Maybe Roiling Horror, which doesn't have much backup in the color which seems to be manipulating graveyards and making people discard.

Delerium Skeins: Inexpensive powerful discard if you can empty your hand early or drop bloodghast/nether traitor into the yard. Also would be a welcome addition if Hellbent.deck ever becomes a viable strategy if/when the deck grows.

In Red, I have four cards on the chopping block:

• Warp World
  
• Insurrection
  
• Goblin Shortcutter

(Accidentally put 2 in there)
and Kazuul Warlord

One of the cards I want in is Staggershock, cheap and efficient removal is always good. But I can't think of three more cards to put in. I have a bit of a dragon theme in red, so maybe dragonspeaker shaman to bring them out earlier?

Your red section has way too high of an average CMC--too many high casting cost cards. So, I'd urge you to replace these cards with cards of CMC <3. Here are my suggestions:

• Chain Lightning
  
• Volcanic Hammer
  
• Sudden Shock
  
• Hearth Kami
  
• Arc Lightning
  
• Molten Rain
  
• Magma Jet
  
• Kargan Dragonlord
  

I think that Chain Lightning, Magma Jet, and Molten Rain are absolutely essential. The others are just really good. You should also replace Tarfire as soon as possible.

And I don't think Dragonspeaker Shaman is good for cube unless you run a tribal cube.

Cheers,
rant

because of the high percentage of etb abilities i found warp world to be better than you'd think, but still not good enough unfortunately.

i agree with rant about red, and i suggest you get a goblin patrol and jackal pup as well. those kind of guys are key to red.

Quote from quitequieter

i agree with rant about red, and i suggest you get a goblin patrol and jackal pup as well. those kind of guys are key to red.

I didn't even notice those guys were missing. They are absolutely essential. One-drops with 2 power are awesome!

Cheers,
rant

So... I went through my commons and uncommons boosters and picked up a lot of Ravnica and Time Spiral block cards. Also found my foil Demigod of Revenge that ive had in there for a looong time... wish i coulda sold it when it was still valuable. I'm going to make a secondary list of cards i have and for the most part want in my cube to compare to the list in the OP.

Well it's been forever, but I finally finished the cube. It turns out that dissolving my Bant deck was worth 100+ dollars in store credit towards finishing it

White - 57 Cards (2.7 average CMC)

Blue - 59 Cards (3.26 average CMC)


Black - 55 Cards (3.41 average CMC)


Red - 55 cards (3.44 average CMC)


Green - 56 cards (3.02 average CMC)


Multicolor - 25 Cards


Want to get Dromar and Crosis to replace Magister and Sedraxis, but relatively happy with the multicolor.

Artifact/Colorless - 32 Cards (3.19 average CMC)


Unfortunately, they did not have all the signets I needed, and only had a Talisman of Unity. As soon as possible, I will remove the talisman and have a full set of signets.

Lands


Another case of unavailable cards; not sure if I want to stick with pain or bouncelands. Testing will tell which is superior.

just taking a look at white, goldenglow moth seems like an ok anti-aggro card but i'm not sure it's good enough. you might want to try lone missionary, which doubles as a solid attacker and has a similar effect. serra ascendant does not seem very good, there just won't be enough support to make her more than a 1/1 lifelink the majority of the time. you have a lot of double white two drops that i don't think are worth the difficulty in casting them, like samurai of the pale curtain and sigiled paladin. you might want to try soltari trooper, mistral charger, and stormfront pegasus instead. recumbent bliss and prison term should become temporal isolation and arrest.

Try Perimeter Captain instead of Goldenglow Moth. It's the better defensive 1-drop, IMO. But Id just run neither, and add Lone Missionary to the 2-drops.

@quietquieter: Goldenglow Moth has a few advantages over perimiter captain in my opinion. But I realized that with no Armored Ascension, its not as powerful a wall as I thought. Though flying is a bit of a premium in my cube. It may ultimately be replaced by Lone Missionary

Samurai of the Pale Curtain is in there for a very specific reason. I'm terrified that BW reanimator is overpowered. It already has turn 1 swamp, dark ritual, delirium skeins dumping any fatty of your choice, reanimate, go. It is also a beautiful counter to bloodghast and any other powerful graveyard abilities and strategies. If he seems lackluster he may get the boot.

Sigiled Paladin seems fine as a 3/3 first striker for 2 that also leads to favorable attacks later on.

Recumbent Bliss and Prison Term seem decent. I like temporal isolation though. Maybe dump bliss for it.

As for the Soltari Trooper Mistral Charger Stormfront Pegasus suggestion, i'm reluctant to give white so much efficient evasion creatures.

@wtwlf123: That seems like a definite possibility.

Quote from Scrapjack

@quietquieter: Goldenglow Moth has a few advantages over perimiter captain in my opinion.

he has one advantage, the flying. most aggro guys are ground attackers, so i just don't think it's worth it. perimeter captain can gain you a lot more life and stop a lot more attackers.

Samurai of the Pale Curtain is in there for a very specific reason. I'm terrified that BW reanimator is overpowered. It already has turn 1 swamp, dark ritual, delirium skeins dumping any fatty of your choice, reanimate, go. It is also a beautiful counter to bloodghast and any other powerful graveyard abilities and strategies. If he seems lackluster he may get the boot.

this is reasonable, but i think you have better options available and would only need to turn to the samurai if you pushed reanimator really hard.

Recumbent Bliss and Prison Term seem decent. I like temporal isolation though. Maybe dump bliss for it.

the 1 life a turn isn't worth the extra mana and the option to move prison term isn't worth the double white cost because it happens so infrequently. i've played them all, and believe me, isolation and arrest are better.

As for the Soltari Trooper Mistral Charger Stormfront Pegasus suggestion, i'm reluctant to give white so much efficient evasion creatures.

that's one of white's strengths, and it's not a problem at all with removal and especially burn. i wouldn't be wary of letting white be white.

Quote from Scrapjack »

Samurai of the Pale Curtain is in there for a very specific reason. I'm terrified that BW reanimator is overpowered. It already has turn 1 swamp, dark ritual, delirium skeins dumping any fatty of your choice, reanimate, go. It is also a beautiful counter to bloodghast and any other powerful graveyard abilities and strategies. If he seems lackluster he may get the boot.

Sorry bro, Samurai of the Pale Curtain doesn't work that way. If I discard Akroma to my graveyard, she isn't exiled. Only a permanent that goes into the graveyard from play is exiled by the Samurai. A card isn't a permanent until it's in play. So when it's discarded from your hand, the Samurai can't label it as a "permanent" (it's a permanent card, but not a "permanent") unless it's going to the graveyard form play.

Samurai will stop Bloodghast, Vengevine, etc from repeating on you... but it won't stop a disarded creature from being reanimated.

Try Stonecloaker for that effect.

Quote from wtwlf123

Sorry bro, Samurai of the Pale Curtain doesn't work that way. If I discard Akroma to my graveyard, she isn't exiled. Only a permanent that goes into the graveyard from play is exiled by the Samurai. A card isn't a permanent until it's in play. So when it's discarded from your hand, the Samurai can't label it as a "permanent" (it's a permanent card, but not a "permanent") unless it's going to the graveyard form play.

Samurai will stop Bloodghast, Vengevine, etc from repeating on you... but it won't stop a disarded creature from being reanimated.

Try Stonecloaker for that effect.

oh, yeah. i didn't even read the card, i thought it just said "card" instead of "permanent."

Ya... Samurai isn't anti-reanimator tech. It's good against Loam/Crucible lands and Bloodghast.