I've finally decided to create a second cube... this one it themed a "Modern" cube... to be the opposite of my Classic Cube. It'll be a little easier for new players to use, and can help transition players that are only really comfortable with the "newer" cards into a cube drafting environment.
Cube Information
Basic Info
Cube Size: 415 Cards
Breakdown: 52 Each Color, 45 Artifacts, 45 Multicolor, 65 Land
Standard or Theme Cube: Theme - Modern Cards Only
Snow Lands: Yes
Average # Players: Four
How Often Drafted: 2-3 Times Weekly
Card Selection
Powered?: N/A
Portal?: N/A
"Un-" Cards: No
Banned Cards for Power-Level: No
Banned Cards for Time Constraints: No
Banned Cards for "Fun" factor: No
Cube Design
Standard or Multiplayer: Standard
Sideboards?: No
Even Color Balance: Yes
Perfect Creature/Non-Creature Balance: No
Gold Balance: Yes
Hybrid/Split/Kicker as Gold: Yes
Color Triggers as Gold: No
Perfectly Balanced CMC: No
Cube CMC: 3.026
This cube is a Medium Sized cube (415 cards) and uses only cards that have been printed with the new card face.
A few other notes... This is a "Snow Cube", meaning it uses snow-covered basic lands to enable cards like Skred, Mouth of Ronom, Phyrexian Ironfoot and a few others.
Very nice small cube! Looks great to me, and at a first glance there's nothing obviously missing or glaringly out of place. However, seeing as you specifically mentioned Welder effects though you might consider Sharuum the Hegemon over SotSW in the Esper slot. I know the latter is a house, but the Welder effect might be what you prefer. She's been good for me at least.
On another note, I'm not entirely sure how viable black aggro would be without some of the old stalwarts like Carnophage, Sacromancy, Hatred etc. If it proves lacking then you can free up some space by cutting Blind Creeper et al. That guy has been great for me, but it might turn out that he needs his old buddies like Wretched Anurid to form the backbone of a viable archetype.
It will be interesting to see what experiences you have with archetypes and drafting with the two Cubes side by side.
I'm surprised that Yosei isn't in, I'm not sure if I think it's better than Captain of the Watch, but I'd try to run it, maybe cut Battlegrace Angel for it? I'd rather have Disenchant in than Return to Dust (since was Timeshifted.)
I've been running Enigma Sphinx in the esper slot and it's done very well. I've heard generally good things about the Esper Akroma but I think that it really, really needs haste.
I've been running Enigma Sphinx in the esper slot and it's done very well. I've heard generally good things about the Esper Akroma but I think that it really, really needs haste.
I run both Sphinxs, and I can say that Sphinx of the Steel Wind has performed better so far for us out of the two. She just completely dominates the games that she hits (which an eight-mana creature should do). I like Enigma quite a bit as well, but it doesn't quite have the game-ending power of Steel Wind, so sadly Enigma wouldn't quite make it if I only had the option of running one.
Well, my cube only uses black-bordered cards (and one silver-bordered), so you're able to use a number of better cards from 8th and 9th edition, and I don't use snow lands, but here's what I saw in white (I'll post other colors later):
No Serra Avenger? A 3/3 flier with vigilance for 2cc seem pretty good to me. I understand you're trying to replicate WW in a modern cube, and she doesn't quite jibe with that, since she isn't playable until turn 4, but I see her more as an efficient beater for Wx control who leaves you with mana for other stuff on the turn you play her.
OMG, how did I miss Mirror Entity? Going straight in to replace ... something infinitely less bomby.
I don't know if I like Captain of the Watch at the 6cc spot. Again, I understand the desire to give white a lot of weenie stuff, but I feel like they also need creatures for a more controlling archetype, so that you're not forced to play aggro when you draft white creatures. Pristine Angel, Yosei, the Morning Star, and Purity are all better at that, in my opinion.
What are your thoughts on Otherworldly Journey over Momentary Blink? I like being able to reuse the spell, but I can see some definite benefits of using Otherworldly Journey prior to a mass removal effect, which white seems to have in abundance.
I really like Pacifism effects in white, as their creatures tend to be outmatched compared to the other colors. With that said, my favorite is Prison Term. Also, you can't go wrong with Crib Swap; instant-speed removal is always nice. I might replace Mobilization (too reliant on Soldier strategy) or Story Circle (not a "fun" card) with one of the aforementioned cards.
Ya, I'd like to find room for Yosei, but the Battlegrace Angel is really solid too. She has an impact on the game the turn she's played, which is nice when playing 5-Drop Terror targets. If any of those 5-Drops end up being sub par, it will be cut for Yosei for sure. I really like that dragon.
I'm not including time-shifted cards. They've got the old card face. I was only going to include cards that were printed with the new card face in a legal expansion set. Otherwise, there would be quite a few of 'em in here I think.
There's a lot of reasons why the Sphinx of the Steel Wind is in this cube over the other esper fatties. For one, she's the biggest and scarriest of all of 'em. With the lack of some... other... great reanimation targets, the Sphinx will have to do for now. The other thing about it, is that Esper's color combination isn't very condusive to Cascade. I'll play that Cascade Sphinx and hit counterspells and removal (that I may not be able to use). Steel Wind Sphinx is black so it can't be Terrored, it has Pro Red so it can't be shattered, and pro-green so it can't be targeted by any of the artifact/enchantment removal that's in this new cube. The color-pie has shifted so much that all the good disenchant effects are Green now, making this beast's pro-green actually relevant for once. Plus, she's a great TfT target and reanimation target... even better than the other Esper fatties.
Well, my cube only uses black-bordered cards (and one silver-bordered), so you're able to use a number of better cards from 8th and 9th edition, and I don't use snow lands, but here's what I saw in white (I'll post other colors later):
No Serra Avenger? A 3/3 flier with vigilance for 2cc seem pretty good to me. I understand you're trying to replicate WW in a modern cube, and she doesn't quite jibe with that, since she isn't playable until turn 4, but I see her more as an efficient beater for Wx control who leaves you with mana for other stuff on the turn you play her.
OMG, how did I miss Mirror Entity? Going straight in to replace ... something infinitely less bomby.
I don't know if I like Captain of the Watch at the 6cc spot. Again, I understand the desire to give white a lot of weenie stuff, but I feel like they also need creatures for a more controlling archetype, so that you're not forced to play aggro when you draft white creatures. Pristine Angel, Yosei, the Morning Star, and Purity are all better at that, in my opinion.
What are your thoughts on Otherworldly Journey over Momentary Blink? I like being able to reuse the spell, but I can see some definite benefits of using Otherworldly Journey prior to a mass removal effect, which white seems to have in abundance.
I really like Pacifism effects in white, as their creatures tend to be outmatched compared to the other colors. With that said, my favorite is Prison Term. Also, you can't go wrong with Crib Swap; instant-speed removal is always nice. I might replace Mobilization (too reliant on Soldier strategy) or Story Circle (not a "fun" card) with one of the aforementioned cards.
All the 8th and 9th cards are foil... I won't use white-bordered cards either man... this is cube!
Ya, no Serra Avenger. I want my WW guys to be playable on turn 2. She's a fine creature, but the cube-list is a bit tight right now.
Captain of the Watch is being given a fair chance before removing it for a possibly better white bomb. Yosei is definitely the other option, but I think the captain is better than the angel or the purity. Time will tell how the captain plays, it does put 9 power and 4 threats on the table for 6 mana though... looks pretty good to me.
Pacifism Effects are good. Thus the Gelid Shackles and the Temporal Isolation. I want those kinds of effects to be splashable and cheap so they can be effective in aggro as well as control. I've got Faith's Fetters in there too... and Oblivion Ring. Prison Term is okay, but 1WW is too clunky if I want a splashable aggro/mid-range removal card. I'd rather use Arrest, I think -- if I was going to add another one of those effects.
Mobilization is better than it looks. Ignore the Vigilance thing, that's NOT what it's for. It's just an outstanding permanent against control decks that will crank out creatures every turn. Don't underestimate the ability to create threats turn after turn for the rest of the game. Some times, that's all it takes to beat control decks. Story Circle isn't fun, but it's a really good card, and that's more important to my playgroup. Crib Swap is a pretty sub-par removal spell for white considering its competition.
All the 8th and 9th cards are foil... I won't use white-bordered cards either man... this is cube!
Ya, no Serra Avenger. I want my WW guys to be playable on turn 2. She's a fine creature, but the cube-list is a bit tight right now.
Captain of the Watch is being given a fair chance before removing it for a possibly better white bomb. Yosei is definitely the other option, but I think the captain is better than the angel or the purity. Time will tell how the captain plays, it does put 9 power and 4 threats on the table for 6 mana though... looks pretty good to me.
Pacifism Effects are good. Thus the Gelid Shackles and the Temporal Isolation. I want those kinds of effects to be splashable and cheap so they can be effective in aggro as well as control. I've got Faith's Fetters in there too... and Oblivion Ring. Prison Term is okay, but 1WW is too clunky if I want a splashable aggro/mid-range removal card. I'd rather use Arrest, I think -- if I was going to add another one of those effects.
Mobilization is better than it looks. Ignore the Vigilance thing, that's NOT what it's for. It's just an outstanding permanent against control decks that will crank out creatures every turn. Don't underestimate the ability to create threats turn after turn for the rest of the game. Some times, that's all it takes to beat control decks. Story Circle isn't fun, but it's a really good card, and that's more important to my playgroup. Crib Swap is a pretty sub-par removal spell for white considering its competition.
No doubts, Captain of the Watch is a bomb, but what I meant was something that a control deck could play in a removal-heavy deck. Looking at Purity again, you're right. I was under the mis-impression that it prevented combat damage as well. However, I still think Pristine Angel is better in a strict control deck than the Captain. With enough instant-speed removal (another reason I like Crib Swap) and bounce effects (Momentary Blink and the like), she is virtually indestructible.
All that being said, Yosei is better than any of those 6-drops. But let me know how the Captain works out; it seems fun.
You've convinced me on Prison Term vs. its competitors. In comes Temporal Isolation instead. Also, I'm going to consider Mobilization. Bitterblossom and Goblin Assault have both been great for my cube, so I imagine a white version of recurring token production should be good as well. I just feel like white has better stuff to do than pay 3 for a 1/1 most of the time. But in honor of MJ, I'm willing to look at myself and make the change
Still no go on the Story Circle for me. My playgroup is more casual, and they already dislike countermagic (I had to fight hard with the argument that blue is very subpar without it), and Story Circle is worse in their eyes.
No doubts, Captain of the Watch is a bomb, but what I meant was something that a control deck could play in a removal-heavy deck. Looking at Purity again, you're right. I was under the mis-impression that it prevented combat damage as well. However, I still think Pristine Angel is better in a strict control deck than the Captain. With enough instant-speed removal (another reason I like Crib Swap) and bounce effects (Momentary Blink and the like), she is virtually indestructible.
All that being said, Yosei is better than any of those 6-drops. But let me know how the Captain works out; it seems fun.
You've convinced me on Prison Term vs. its competitors. In comes Temporal Isolation instead. Also, I'm going to consider Mobilization. Bitterblossom and Goblin Assault have both been great for my cube, so I imagine a white version of recurring token production should be good as well. I just feel like white has better stuff to do than pay 3 for a 1/1 most of the time. But in honor of MJ, I'm willing to look at myself and make the change
Still no go on the Story Circle for me. My playgroup is more casual, and they already dislike countermagic (I had to fight hard with the argument that blue is very subpar without it), and Story Circle is worse in their eyes.
I know that Pristine Angel is strong, and better than the captain in a control deck. However, the cube has strong 5-Drop finishers for white control already, which is why I preferred the Captain in that 6-Drop slot. As a finisher in any white deck (not just control) it puts a lot of power to the table, and also divides it between 4 threats, which is a great way to finish a mid-range stalemate. Yosei is a superhero, and it's the #1 creature on my waiting list... waiting for a white creature to prove itself unworthy so he can come in and show 'em how it's done.
Token producers are strong. They're hard for control to deal with. Finishing out an aggro curve with a card that pump out numerous threats is always desirable. It's also great with the Captain, Glorious Anthem and Celestial Crusader.
And ya, Story Circle is powerful. I could see where the playgroup would be timid about its inclusion.
I'm not sold on Vendilion Clique. Sure, it's an efficient beater in a color that doesn't have them, and it makes them loot away their best card, but I feel like blue needs to use it's turn 3 play to keep denying threats from reaching the table a la Faerie Trickery, Hinder, etc. Also, the later in the game you get, the less relevance the Clique has to the game.
Wipe Away, Remove Soul, Faerie Trickery and a few others will come out of the cube when they print more efficient low CC blue spells. For now, they're the best available for this cube. I need Counterspell, Force Spike and Impulse.
Clique, on the other hand, is a fantastic card. You can still keep mana open on T3 and play the Clique at EOT. Cycle your cards you don't need or get the 4-Drop out of your opponent's hand.
Also, the later in the game you get, the less relevance the Clique has to the game.
I don't think that's true, your opponent won't be able to just empty out their hand and Clique does take out relevant cards even late game. See Decree of Justice that your opponent is going to cycle on their next turn to win? Here, see what you topdeck. I've never been for lack of targets when I cast Clique.
What do you think the chances are of them re-printing Counterspell any time soon?
...I really want that card for this cube.
one of thunk (haha) that this M10 set would of been the perfect time since they reprinted lightning bolt, duress and whole load of other goodies.
since everything crept up, made sense to me.
but nah, wizards just printed a load of bad blue cards in M10 and called it a day. at least give us mana leak, sheesh
i am tried of cancel. it pisses me off everything i see in draft.
one of thunk (haha) that this M10 set would of been the perfect time since they reprinted lightning bolt, duress and whole load of other goodies.
since everything crept up, made sense to me.
but nah, wizards just printed a load of bad blue cards in M10 and called it a day. at least give us mana leak, sheesh
i am tried of cancel. it pisses me off everything i see in draft.
Word.
Now that the aggro quality is high enough (and the 5-color mana base is going to ratate) I think they can safely reprint Counterspell. Duress, Lightning Bolt and all the aggro white will certainly keep Counterspell in check, IMO. Especially with the lack of Wrath of God.
Now that the aggro quality is high enough (and the 5-color mana base is going to ratate) I think they can safely reprint Counterspell. Duress, Lightning Bolt and all the aggro white will certainly keep Counterspell in check, IMO. Especially with the lack of Wrath of God.
Plus... I want it for my modern cube.
agree with ya there.
yes, having it for your modern cube is a must.
blue feels so weak without it.
What do you think the chances are of them re-printing Counterspell any time soon?
...I really want that card for this cube.
You could always join me on the "modern frame reprints are allowed" train. My cube has Counterspell along with a host of other goodies. Of course, this is my only cube. If you want to maintain a distinction between your "retro" cube and your "modern" cube, you're just going to have to wish for a legit Counterspell reprint.
You could always join me on the "modern frame reprints are allowed" train. My cube has Counterspell along with a host of other goodies. Of course, this is my only cube. If you want to maintain a distinction between your "retro" cube and your "modern" cube, you're just going to have to wish for a legit Counterspell reprint.
I thought about it, and there's three main reasons I don't want to do this. First, I feel that there are some reprint cards that shouldn't be thrown into the mix with these newer cards. Sol Ring is one of 'em. The game has been self-balanced to interact with other cards in similar formats since they've turned to the new card faces. There are some cards that just should not be included in this category. They printed Lightning Bolt again because they felt like it would comfortably interact with other extend/standard cards without being a problem. They did NOT consider this with cards like Sol Ring and Balance. Second, cost is a factor. The Judge foil promo cards aren't the cheapest mtg cards out there, and I already have one expensive as hell "classic" cube without having to throw in a bunch of $40+ foils into my modern cube as well. And the third is that I'd like to differentiate between old cards and new cards... for the "feel" of the game/cube experience. Players that are used to playing extended and standard will be able to move into this cube with no hiccups. Those same players seeing Sol Ring, Balance, Demonic Tutor and a few others thrown in may be turned off. For the cubers that want to play with old busted-ass cards... well, that's what my classic cube is for.
I thought about it, and there's three main reasons I don't want to do this. First, I feel that there are some reprint cards that shouldn't be thrown into the mix with these newer cards. Sol Ring is one of 'em. The game has been self-balanced to interact with other cards in similar formats since they've turned to the new card faces. There are some cards that just should not be included in this category. They printed Lightning Bolt again because they felt like it would comfortably interact with other extend/standard cards without being a problem. They did NOT consider this with cards like Sol Ring and Balance. Second, cost is a factor. The Judge foil promo cards aren't the cheapest mtg cards out there, and I already have one expensive as hell "classic" cube without having to throw in a bunch of $40+ foils into my modern cube as well. And the third is that I'd like to differentiate between old cards and new cards... for the "feel" of the game/cube experience. Players that are used to playing extended and standard will be able to move into this cube with no hiccups. Those same players seeing Sol Ring, Balance, Demonic Tutor and a few others thrown in may be turned off. For the cubers that want to play with old busted-ass cards... well, that's what my classic cube is for.
Yeah, I was only joking, anyway. If I had the luxury of two cubes ;), I'd do the same. I'm waiting to add the uber-expensive cards (mostly the judge foils) to see if they come out in the upcoming FTV:E. If not, then I'll consider purchasing the judge foils. I figure, at the very least, that the resale value will stay somewhat steady, so when push comes to shove, I can make most of my money back.
Yeah, I was only joking, anyway. If I had the luxury of two cubes ;), I'd do the same. I'm waiting to add the uber-expensive cards (mostly the judge foils) to see if they come out in the upcoming FTV:E. If not, then I'll consider purchasing the judge foils. I figure, at the very least, that the resale value will stay somewhat steady, so when push comes to shove, I can make most of my money back.
Well, that depends on how long you wait to buy the judge foils ;). If you're anything like me, you'll want to buy them as soon as they become available for your cube. If you do this, the judge foil cards will lose quite a bit of their value after the "OMG I must have this!" phase wears off. It's unfortunate, but we just lost quite a bit on a foil Maze we picked up at the pro tour.
Don't forget to add the promo foil Vindicate to your cube.
Cube Information
Basic Info
Cube Size: 415 Cards
Breakdown: 52 Each Color, 45 Artifacts, 45 Multicolor, 65 Land
Standard or Theme Cube: Theme - Modern Cards Only
Snow Lands: Yes
Average # Players: Four
How Often Drafted: 2-3 Times Weekly
Card Selection
Powered?: N/A
Portal?: N/A
"Un-" Cards: No
Banned Cards for Power-Level: No
Banned Cards for Time Constraints: No
Banned Cards for "Fun" factor: No
Cube Design
Standard or Multiplayer: Standard
Sideboards?: No
Even Color Balance: Yes
Perfect Creature/Non-Creature Balance: No
Gold Balance: Yes
Hybrid/Split/Kicker as Gold: Yes
Color Triggers as Gold: No
Perfectly Balanced CMC: No
Cube CMC: 3.026
This cube is a Medium Sized cube (415 cards) and uses only cards that have been printed with the new card face.
A few other notes... This is a "Snow Cube", meaning it uses snow-covered basic lands to enable cards like Skred, Mouth of Ronom, Phyrexian Ironfoot and a few others.
Modern Cube List (415)
White
1 Goldmeadow Harrier
1 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
1 Mother of Runes
1 Savannah Lions
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Blade of the Sixth Pride
1 Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
1 Kami of Ancient Law
1 Knight of Meadowgrain
1 Knight of the White Orchid
1 Silver Knight
1 Soltari Priest
1 White Knight
1 Exalted Angel
1 Mirror Entity
1 Paladin en-Vec
1 Celestial Crusader
1 Kor Sanctifiers
1 Archon of Justice
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Cloudgoat Ranger
1 Reveillark
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Shining Shoal
1 Gelid Shackles
1 Harm's Way
1 Mana Tithe
1 Orim's Chant
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Disenchant
1 Journey to Nowhere
1 Temporal Isolation
1 Glorious Anthem
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Scepter of Dominance
1 Spectral Procession
1 Story Circle
1 Ajani Goldmane
1 Armageddon
1 Day of Judgment
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Wrath of God
1 Akroma's Vengeance
1 Decree of Justice
1 Martial Coup
Blue
1 Looter il-Kor
1 Riftwing Cloudskate
1 Man-o'-War
1 Mulldrifter
1 Serendib Efreet
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Willbender
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Thieving Magpie
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Draining Whelk
1 Keiga, the Tide Star
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Pact of Negation
1 Ancestral Vision
1 Brainstorm
1 Force Spike
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Ponder
1 Boomerang
1 Counterspell
1 Into the Roil
1 Mana Leak
1 Remand
1 Compulsive Research
1 Crystal Shard
1 Hinder
1 Jace Beleren
1 Psionic Blast
1 Repulse
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Tinker
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 Deep Analysis
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Rewind
1 Rite of Replication
1 Bribery
1 Evacuation
1 Mind Control
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Time Warp
1 Confiscate
1 Condescend
1 Repeal
Black
1 Black Knight
1 Bloodghast
1 Blind Creeper
1 Dark Confidant
1 Nezumi Graverobber
1 Nezumi Shortfang
1 Oona's Prowler
1 Shriekmaw
1 Vampire Hexmage
1 Cemetery Reaper
1 Doomed Necromancer
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Hypnotic Specter
1 Vampire Nighthawk
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Mirri the Cursed
1 Nekrataal
1 Plague Sliver
1 Ob Nixilis, the Fallen
1 Puppeteer Clique
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
1 Skeletal Vampire
1 Tombstalker
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Dark Ritual
1 Disfigure
1 Duress
1 Innocent Blood
1 Reanimate
1 Thoughtseize
1 Bitterblossom
1 Chainer's Edict
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Doom Blade
1 Nameless Inversion
1 Night's Whisper
1 Smallpox
1 Terror
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Sudden Death
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Barter in Blood
1 Damnation
1 Makeshift Mannequin
1 Beacon of Unrest
1 Liliana Vess
1 Sorin Markov
1 Mind Shatter
1 Profane Command
Red
1 Greater Gargadon
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Kird Ape
1 Magus of the Scroll
1 Mogg Fanatic
1 Blood Knight
1 Fireslinger
1 Hearth Kami
1 Hellspark Elemental
1 Keldon Marauders
1 Slith Firewalker
1 Ball Lightning
1 Hell's Thunder
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Flametongue Kavu
1 Goblin Ruinblaster
1 Kumano, Master Yamabushi
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Hellkite Charger
1 Rorix Bladewing
1 Bogardan Hellkite
1 Fireblast
1 Burst Lightning
1 Firebolt
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Rift Bolt
1 Skred
1 Incinerate
1 Magma Jet
1 Pyroclasm
1 Smash to Smithereens
1 Sudden Shock
1 Volcanic Hammer
1 Char
1 Flame Javelin
1 Goblin Assault
1 Hammer of Bogardan
1 Molten Rain
1 Stone Rain
1 Boom // Bust
1 Chandra Nalaar
1 Chandra Ablaze
1 Wildfire
1 Banefire
1 Demonfire
1 Earthquake
1 Fireball
Green
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Twinblade Slasher
1 Wild Nacatl
1 Lotus Cobra
1 Mire Boa
1 River Boa
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Vinelasher Kudzu
1 Viridian Zealot
1 Wall of Roots
1 Wild Mongrel
1 Eternal Witness
1 Great Sable Stag
1 Imperious Perfect
1 Krosan Tusker
1 Ohran Viper
1 Troll Ascetic
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Briarhorn
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Ravenous Baloth
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Acidic Slime
1 Deranged Hermit
1 Indrik Stomphowler
1 Kodama of the North Tree
1 Mycoloth
1 Thornling
1 Rampaging Baloths
1 Berserk
1 Giant Growth
1 Rancor
1 Vines of Vastwood
1 Farseek
1 Life from the Loam
1 Regrowth
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Harrow
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Krosan Grip
1 Creeping Mold
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Stonewood Invocation
1 Overrun
1 Plow Under
1 Tooth and Nail
Artifact
1 Phyrexian Ironfoot
1 Juggernaut
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Razormane Masticore
1 Duplicant
1 Triskelion
1 Platinum Angel
1 Sundering Titan
1 Bonesplitter
1 Skullclamp
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Grafted Wargear
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sigil of Distinction
1 Lotus Bloom
1 Lotus Petal
1 Sol Ring
1 Guardian Idol
1 Mind Stone
1 Coalition Relic
1 Azorius Signet
1 Boros Signet
1 Dimir Signet
1 Golgari Signet
1 Gruul Signet
1 Izzet Signet
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Selesnya Signet
1 Simic Signet
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Isochron Scepter
1 Powder Keg
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Icy Manipulator
1 Mindslaver
1 Obelisk of Alara
1 Engineered Explosives
Gold
1 Momentary Blink
1 Wall of Denial
1 Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
1 Agony Warp
1 Psychatog
1 Wydwen, the Biting Gale
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae
1 Rakdos Guildmage
1 Terminate
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Bituminous Blast
1 Fires of Yavimaya
1 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Giant Solifuge
1 Sarkhan Vol
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Loxodon Hierarch
1 Mirari's Wake
1 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Mortify
1 Stillmoon Cavalier
1 Vindicate
1 Figure of Destiny
1 Lightning Helix
1 Duergar Hedge-Mage
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Fire // Ice
1 Electrolyze
1 Gelectrode
1 Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
1 Trygon Predator
1 Voidslime
1 Simic Sky Swallower
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Putrefy
1 Spiritmonger
1 Rafiq of the Many
1 Broodmate Dragon
1 Realm Razer
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
Land
1 City of Brass
1 Gargoyle Castle
1 Gemstone Mine
1 Maze of Ith
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Mouth of Ronom
1 Mutavault
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Rupture Spire
1 Scrying Sheets
1 Strip Mine
1 Tendo Ice Bridge
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Urza's Factory
1 Academy Ruins
1 Ghitu Encampment
1 Treetop Village
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Windbrisk Heights
1 Adarkar wastes
1 Battlefield Forge
1 Brushland
1 Caves of Koilos
1 Karplusan Forest
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Shivan Reef
1 Sulfurous Springs
1 Underground River
1 Yavamaya Coast
1 Boros Garrison
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Golgari Rot Farm
1 Gruul Turf
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Orzhov Basilica
1 Rakdos Carnarium
1 Selesnya Sanctuary
1 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Blood Crypt
1 Breeding Pool
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Watery Grave
1 Vivid Crag
1 Vivid Creek
1 Vivid Grove
1 Vivid Marsh
1 Vivid Meadow
1 Flooded Strand
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Arid Mesa
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Verdant Catacombs
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OUT -----> IN
7/26/09
White Shield Crusader -----> Soltari Priest
Stonecloaker -----> Icatian Javellineers
Battlegrace Angel -----> Akroma, Angel of Wrath
Return to Dust -----> Disenchant
Body Double -----> Willbender
Tidings -----> Psionic Blast
Zo-Zu the Punisher -----> Avalanche Riders
Briarhorn -----> Wall of Roots
Harmonize -----> Call of the Herd
7/27/09
Trash for Treasure -----> Stone Rain
7/31/09
Careful Consideration -----> Think Twice
8/1/09
Naturalize -----> Creeping Mold
8/8/09
Flameblast Dragon -----> Squee, Goblin Nabob
8/28/09
Massive Update
White
+ Armageddon
+ Balance
+ Decree of Justice
+ Eternal Dragon
+ Exalted Angel
+ Mother of Runes
+ Orim's Chant
+ Seal of Cleansing
+ Silver Knight
+ Swords to Plowshares
- Shining Shoal
- Otherworldly Journey
- Griffin Guide
- Condemn
Blue
+ Brainstorm
+ Counterspell
+ Deep Analysis
+ Fact or Fiction
+ Force Spike
+ Man-'o-War
+ Repulse
+ Serendib Efreet
+ Tinker
+ Mystical Tutor
- Think Twice
- Remove Soul
- Spell Snare
- Wipe Away
Black
+ Chainer's Edict
+ Dark Ritual
+ Demonic Tutor
+ Necropotence
+ Reanimate
+ Smother
+ Yawgmoth's Will
- Zombify
Red
+ Firebolt
+ Fireblast
+ Fireslinger
+ Flametongue Kavu
+ Grim Lavamancer
+ Stigma Lasher
Green
+ Basking Rootwalla
+ Berserk
+ Blastoderm
+ Channel
+ Deranged Hermit
+ Krosan Tusker
+ Rancor
+ Ravenous Baloth
+ Regrowth
+ Wild Mongrel
- Elves of Deep Shadow
- Moldervine Cloak
- Master of the Wild Hunt
- Farhaven Elf
Artifact
+ Lotus Petal
+ Powder Keg
+ Sol Ring
+ Fellwar Stone
+ Platinum Angel
Gold
+ Wall of Denial
+ Psychatog
+ Bituminous Blast
+ Boggart Ram-Gang
+ Mirari's Wake
+ Vindicate
+ Duergar Hedge-Mage
+ Fire // Ice
+ Snakeform
+ Pernicious Deed
+ Spiritmonger
- Putrid Leech
Land
+ Bloodstained Mire
+ Gemstone Mine
+ Maze of Ith
+ Mishra's Factory
+ Strip Mine
+ Windswept Heath
+ Wooded Foothills
+ Stalking Stones
+ Miren, the Moaning Well (will be Flooded Strand when Judge Promo Available)
+ Tendo Ice Bridge (will be Polluted Delta when Judge Promo Available)
9/14/09
Hallowed Burial -----> Akroma's Vengeance
Cruel Edict -----> Innocent Blood
Boggart Ram-Gang -----> Fires of Yavimaya
Stigma Lasher -----> Arc Lightning
Caldera Hellion -----> Rorix Bladewing
Zendikar update:
White:
Story Circle -----> Day of Judgment
Mobilization -----> Journey to Nowhere
Seal of Cleansing -----> Kor Sanctifiers
Blue:
Evacuation -----> Into the Roil
Black:
Stromgald Crusader -----> Bloodghast
Kagemaro, First to Suffer -----> Ob Nixilis, the Fallen
Dread Return -----> Sorin Markov
Sign in Blood -----> Vampire Hexmage
Wrench Mind -----> Vampire Lacerator
Smother -----> Disfigure
Chittering Rats -----> Vampire Nighthawk
Red:
Seal of Fire -----> Burst Lightning
Sudden Shock -----> Chandra Ablaze
Frenzied Goblin -----> Goblin Guide
Rakka Mar -----> Goblin Ruinblaster
Countryside Crusher -----> Hellkite Charger
Green:
Search for Tomorrow -----> Harrow
Joiner Adept -----> Lotus Cobra
Arashi, the Sky Asunder -----> Rampaging Baloths
Rude Awakening -----> River Boa
Channel -----> Vines of Vastwood
Land:
Ghost Quarter -----> Arid Mesa
Miren, the Moaning Well -----> Marsh Flats
Stalking Stones -----> Misty Rainforest
Tendo Ice Bridge -----> Scalding Tarn
Gargoyle Castle -----> Verdant Catacombs
10/2/09
Captain of the Watch -----> Yosei, the Morning Star
Threads of Disloyalty -----> Mind Control
Broken Ambitions -----> Daze
10/20/09
Land Change
Filters Out, Pain Lands In:
Other Changes
Austere Command -----> Story Circle
Incatian Javelineers -----> Shining Shoal
Vesuvan Shapeshifter -----> Evacuation
Akroma, Angel of Fury -----> Sudden Shock
Cloudthresher -----> Briarhorn
Stuffy Doll -----> Grafted Wargear
10/26/09
Faerie Trickery -----> Rite of Replication
Primal Command -----> Survival of the Fittest
Fellwar Stone -----> Guardian Idol
Arcane Sanctum -----> Flooded Strand
Jungle Shrine -----> Sunken Ruins (placeholder for Polluted Delta)
Seaside Citadel -----> Gargoyle Castle
Crumbling Necropolis -----> Tendo Ice Bridge
Savage Lands -----> Urza's Factory
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On another note, I'm not entirely sure how viable black aggro would be without some of the old stalwarts like Carnophage, Sacromancy, Hatred etc. If it proves lacking then you can free up some space by cutting Blind Creeper et al. That guy has been great for me, but it might turn out that he needs his old buddies like Wretched Anurid to form the backbone of a viable archetype.
It will be interesting to see what experiences you have with archetypes and drafting with the two Cubes side by side.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
I'm surprised that Yosei isn't in, I'm not sure if I think it's better than Captain of the Watch, but I'd try to run it, maybe cut Battlegrace Angel for it? I'd rather have Disenchant in than Return to Dust (since was Timeshifted.)
Counting Crystal Shard and Vedalken Shackles as blue is win.
I've been running Enigma Sphinx in the esper slot and it's done very well. I've heard generally good things about the Esper Akroma but I think that it really, really needs haste.
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I run both Sphinxs, and I can say that Sphinx of the Steel Wind has performed better so far for us out of the two. She just completely dominates the games that she hits (which an eight-mana creature should do). I like Enigma quite a bit as well, but it doesn't quite have the game-ending power of Steel Wind, so sadly Enigma wouldn't quite make it if I only had the option of running one.
(list not current)
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No Serra Avenger? A 3/3 flier with vigilance for 2cc seem pretty good to me. I understand you're trying to replicate WW in a modern cube, and she doesn't quite jibe with that, since she isn't playable until turn 4, but I see her more as an efficient beater for Wx control who leaves you with mana for other stuff on the turn you play her.
OMG, how did I miss Mirror Entity? Going straight in to replace ... something infinitely less bomby.
I don't know if I like Captain of the Watch at the 6cc spot. Again, I understand the desire to give white a lot of weenie stuff, but I feel like they also need creatures for a more controlling archetype, so that you're not forced to play aggro when you draft white creatures. Pristine Angel, Yosei, the Morning Star, and Purity are all better at that, in my opinion.
What are your thoughts on Otherworldly Journey over Momentary Blink? I like being able to reuse the spell, but I can see some definite benefits of using Otherworldly Journey prior to a mass removal effect, which white seems to have in abundance.
I really like Pacifism effects in white, as their creatures tend to be outmatched compared to the other colors. With that said, my favorite is Prison Term. Also, you can't go wrong with Crib Swap; instant-speed removal is always nice. I might replace Mobilization (too reliant on Soldier strategy) or Story Circle (not a "fun" card) with one of the aforementioned cards.
I'm not including time-shifted cards. They've got the old card face. I was only going to include cards that were printed with the new card face in a legal expansion set. Otherwise, there would be quite a few of 'em in here I think.
There's a lot of reasons why the Sphinx of the Steel Wind is in this cube over the other esper fatties. For one, she's the biggest and scarriest of all of 'em. With the lack of some... other... great reanimation targets, the Sphinx will have to do for now. The other thing about it, is that Esper's color combination isn't very condusive to Cascade. I'll play that Cascade Sphinx and hit counterspells and removal (that I may not be able to use). Steel Wind Sphinx is black so it can't be Terrored, it has Pro Red so it can't be shattered, and pro-green so it can't be targeted by any of the artifact/enchantment removal that's in this new cube. The color-pie has shifted so much that all the good disenchant effects are Green now, making this beast's pro-green actually relevant for once. Plus, she's a great TfT target and reanimation target... even better than the other Esper fatties.
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All the 8th and 9th cards are foil... I won't use white-bordered cards either man... this is cube!
Ya, no Serra Avenger. I want my WW guys to be playable on turn 2. She's a fine creature, but the cube-list is a bit tight right now.
Captain of the Watch is being given a fair chance before removing it for a possibly better white bomb. Yosei is definitely the other option, but I think the captain is better than the angel or the purity. Time will tell how the captain plays, it does put 9 power and 4 threats on the table for 6 mana though... looks pretty good to me.
Momentary Blink is in the cube. It's a WU card. Otherworldly Journey is a good card too, especially when used on Cloudgoat Ranger/Captain of the Watch/Siege-Gang Commander, etc...
Pacifism Effects are good. Thus the Gelid Shackles and the Temporal Isolation. I want those kinds of effects to be splashable and cheap so they can be effective in aggro as well as control. I've got Faith's Fetters in there too... and Oblivion Ring. Prison Term is okay, but 1WW is too clunky if I want a splashable aggro/mid-range removal card. I'd rather use Arrest, I think -- if I was going to add another one of those effects.
Mobilization is better than it looks. Ignore the Vigilance thing, that's NOT what it's for. It's just an outstanding permanent against control decks that will crank out creatures every turn. Don't underestimate the ability to create threats turn after turn for the rest of the game. Some times, that's all it takes to beat control decks. Story Circle isn't fun, but it's a really good card, and that's more important to my playgroup. Crib Swap is a pretty sub-par removal spell for white considering its competition.
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No doubts, Captain of the Watch is a bomb, but what I meant was something that a control deck could play in a removal-heavy deck. Looking at Purity again, you're right. I was under the mis-impression that it prevented combat damage as well. However, I still think Pristine Angel is better in a strict control deck than the Captain. With enough instant-speed removal (another reason I like Crib Swap) and bounce effects (Momentary Blink and the like), she is virtually indestructible.
All that being said, Yosei is better than any of those 6-drops. But let me know how the Captain works out; it seems fun.
You've convinced me on Prison Term vs. its competitors. In comes Temporal Isolation instead. Also, I'm going to consider Mobilization. Bitterblossom and Goblin Assault have both been great for my cube, so I imagine a white version of recurring token production should be good as well. I just feel like white has better stuff to do than pay 3 for a 1/1 most of the time. But in honor of MJ, I'm willing to look at myself and make the change
Still no go on the Story Circle for me. My playgroup is more casual, and they already dislike countermagic (I had to fight hard with the argument that blue is very subpar without it), and Story Circle is worse in their eyes.
I know that Pristine Angel is strong, and better than the captain in a control deck. However, the cube has strong 5-Drop finishers for white control already, which is why I preferred the Captain in that 6-Drop slot. As a finisher in any white deck (not just control) it puts a lot of power to the table, and also divides it between 4 threats, which is a great way to finish a mid-range stalemate. Yosei is a superhero, and it's the #1 creature on my waiting list... waiting for a white creature to prove itself unworthy so he can come in and show 'em how it's done.
Token producers are strong. They're hard for control to deal with. Finishing out an aggro curve with a card that pump out numerous threats is always desirable. It's also great with the Captain, Glorious Anthem and Celestial Crusader.
And ya, Story Circle is powerful. I could see where the playgroup would be timid about its inclusion.
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I'm not sold on Vendilion Clique. Sure, it's an efficient beater in a color that doesn't have them, and it makes them loot away their best card, but I feel like blue needs to use it's turn 3 play to keep denying threats from reaching the table a la Faerie Trickery, Hinder, etc. Also, the later in the game you get, the less relevance the Clique has to the game.
Remove Soul is just too narrow for me. I understand it can be a godsend against aggro, but I'd rather have card draw in this spot (Telling Time, maybe?) to draw a better solution to aggro (Evacuation, Crystal Shard, Vedalken Shackles).
Not a big fan of Wipe Away. Too slow against aggro, too inefficient against anything bigger.
Clique, on the other hand, is a fantastic card. You can still keep mana open on T3 and play the Clique at EOT. Cycle your cards you don't need or get the 4-Drop out of your opponent's hand.
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I don't think that's true, your opponent won't be able to just empty out their hand and Clique does take out relevant cards even late game. See Decree of Justice that your opponent is going to cycle on their next turn to win? Here, see what you topdeck. I've never been for lack of targets when I cast Clique.
And hey, free flying 3/1.
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...I really want that card for this cube.
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one of thunk (haha) that this M10 set would of been the perfect time since they reprinted lightning bolt, duress and whole load of other goodies.
since everything crept up, made sense to me.
but nah, wizards just printed a load of bad blue cards in M10 and called it a day. at least give us mana leak, sheesh
i am tried of cancel. it pisses me off everything i see in draft.
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Word.
Now that the aggro quality is high enough (and the 5-color mana base is going to ratate) I think they can safely reprint Counterspell. Duress, Lightning Bolt and all the aggro white will certainly keep Counterspell in check, IMO. Especially with the lack of Wrath of God.
Plus... I want it for my modern cube.
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agree with ya there.
yes, having it for your modern cube is a must.
blue feels so weak without it.
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They seem pretty set on Cancel and the like. Of course, they seemed pretty set on Shock and Volcanic Hammer, so who knows?
You could always join me on the "modern frame reprints are allowed" train. My cube has Counterspell along with a host of other goodies. Of course, this is my only cube. If you want to maintain a distinction between your "retro" cube and your "modern" cube, you're just going to have to wish for a legit Counterspell reprint.
I thought about it, and there's three main reasons I don't want to do this. First, I feel that there are some reprint cards that shouldn't be thrown into the mix with these newer cards. Sol Ring is one of 'em. The game has been self-balanced to interact with other cards in similar formats since they've turned to the new card faces. There are some cards that just should not be included in this category. They printed Lightning Bolt again because they felt like it would comfortably interact with other extend/standard cards without being a problem. They did NOT consider this with cards like Sol Ring and Balance. Second, cost is a factor. The Judge foil promo cards aren't the cheapest mtg cards out there, and I already have one expensive as hell "classic" cube without having to throw in a bunch of $40+ foils into my modern cube as well. And the third is that I'd like to differentiate between old cards and new cards... for the "feel" of the game/cube experience. Players that are used to playing extended and standard will be able to move into this cube with no hiccups. Those same players seeing Sol Ring, Balance, Demonic Tutor and a few others thrown in may be turned off. For the cubers that want to play with old busted-ass cards... well, that's what my classic cube is for.
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Yeah, I was only joking, anyway. If I had the luxury of two cubes ;), I'd do the same. I'm waiting to add the uber-expensive cards (mostly the judge foils) to see if they come out in the upcoming FTV:E. If not, then I'll consider purchasing the judge foils. I figure, at the very least, that the resale value will stay somewhat steady, so when push comes to shove, I can make most of my money back.
Well, that depends on how long you wait to buy the judge foils ;). If you're anything like me, you'll want to buy them as soon as they become available for your cube. If you do this, the judge foil cards will lose quite a bit of their value after the "OMG I must have this!" phase wears off. It's unfortunate, but we just lost quite a bit on a foil Maze we picked up at the pro tour.
Don't forget to add the promo foil Vindicate to your cube.
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The ones that I can think of that are worthy of inclusion are:
Disenchant
Soltari Priest
Willbender
Akroma, Angel of Wrath
Avalanche Riders
Wall of Roots
Call of the Herd
Psionic Blast
Icatian Javelineers
Can anyone think of any more?
EDIT: Changes made. See updates in the 2nd post.
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