A long time favorite and white top 20 card...that seems to become outdated and looks so much better on paper than it plays out.
The CC makes this a control only card. Against aggro it is rarely a good choice to go armageddon mode. Usually when you have control of the game you will win without blowing up all lands. So it plays like a expensive wrath against aggro. Against control is where this card is shining. But that's not enough for a card to justify its inclusion in cube (only played in control decks and only realy good against control decks).
I still find cubes to be about the experience than a contest (much like EDH). I wouldn't run any MLD in my cube, solely because It's no fun. The choice of wrathing makes it much better than a card like Obliterate--which I've elected to ban in my playgroup.
It seems like a solid card to me. It can play in either aggro or control, though it is slightly weaker in Aggro as getting to 6 lands is tricky.
For aggro, you play it in Wrath mode if your opponent has stabilized with creature(s) that effectively blank yours. You play it in geddon mode if you've got the board presence.
For control, you play in in Wrath mode, and it's a wrath, always good. You play it in geddon mode if you've stabilized.
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I think it's one of white's top 5-7 cards. It's a Wrath when you're behind and a 'geddon when you're ahead. It's full of win for any deck. I would definitely run it in aggro.
It lets you choose from two of the most powerful effects in magic, that are usually useful in different board states. The 4WW cost might put it out of reach for the most aggressive of aggro decks, but other than that I run it in any deck that can cast it. Midrange, prison and control all love the thing, as do white equipment decks. There are no matchups where it is bad, unless you are a really slow control deck versus a crazy high octane red aggro deck.
So to sum up, it goes in just about every deck and is good against just about every deck.
Not an aggro card, but a fine card in midrange and control: Armageddon when you're ahead, Wrath when you're behind. Playing it in aggressive decks is just asking to experience some bad card evaluation.
I have no problem playing this in aggro. Sure, it's not ideal but it works and it works well. Aggro wants to kill by t4-t5, but if it doesn't it can put the game away with Catastrophe.
I have no problem playing this in aggro. Sure, it's not ideal but it works and it works well. Aggro wants to kill by t4-t5, but if it doesn't it can put the game away with Catastrophe.
I think what people are saying is that aggro has a better chance to put the game away if it's not running Catastrophe and running a cheaper card that can apply pressure instead. I don't run anything that costs over 5 in aggro and I prefer not to run anything over 4 so our definitions of aggro could vary.
I rarely play even a single 5-drop in my aggro decks. A 6-drop is completely out of the question.
Catastrophe is a card that looks good if you have a shot at reaching 6 mana, but I honestly cannot recall the last time it was used to good effect here, so yeah.
If it doesn't, it might be, because you are including too many cards that don't kill on turn 4/5 like those Fireball+Baneslayer "fake aggro" decks some less experienced players like to build.
Catastrophe is the only 6cc card I think I would ever run in aggro.
Catastrophe is the only 6cc card I think I would ever run in aggro.
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In aggro I like to keep the curve as low as possible. As many one and two drops as possible, maybe two or three 4 drops as curve toppers. If you are running 15 or 16 lands, running a 6 cc doesn't feel like the right move. I would prefer Inferno Titan if I had to play a six drop. Or Thundermaw Dragon as aggresive reach if you have a slow aggro deck (with quite a number of cards with cc higher than 3).
In aggro I like to keep the curve as low as possible. As many one and two drops as possible, maybe two or three 4 drops as curve toppers. If you are running 15 or 16 lands, running a 6 cc doesn't feel like the right move. I would prefer Inferno Titan if I had to play a six drop. Or Thundermaw Dragon as aggresive reach if you have a slow aggro deck (with quite a number of cards with cc higher than 3).
I agree with most of this. I do try to keep the curve very low, but Catastrophe can be worth it.
Frost Titan/Inferno Titan/Massacre Wurm aren't too bad as aggro 6-drop curve toppers, but yeah, they generally need to have an immediate board impact once they resolve and should help you to win that turn.
I'm guessing we're running into the old terminology issue again here. As far as I'm concerned, a deck that has a 6-drop and has a reasonable chance of getting it on the table cannot be an aggro deck, but I know some people have different interpretations of the term.
I don't even like 5 drops in my aggro decks, let alone even considering a 6 drop. 5 is something I want maybe one of, like thundermaw hellkite, baneslayer, or cloudgoat ranger.
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This card seems to have lost tons of luster in the last few years. We all agree now that this doesn't go in an aggro deck, yes? But midrange and control might want this flexibility still?
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Cube environments are getting faster with each new update, so it's also getting harder for the control decks that want this to wait to get to 6 mana. I cut it, and if I need another Wrath effect I'll go with one of the many options that costs 5 like Fumigate or Hallowed Burial.
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I still like catastrophe a lot. You're going to be able to profitably use one of the modes a majority of the time, and the armageddon mode is GG like armageddons often are.
I am not playing Wildfire. Played Catastrophe and cut it years ago. It is too expensive for decks that traditionally want an Armageddon. That leaves it to control decks. Six mana wraths are bad, you need a four mana wrath earlier just so you can survive and cast it. The Armageddon side is the least used mode, and in my experience never won a game you otherwise wouldn't win anyway (let alone with a different 6 drop in hand). It has some flexibility but no solid mode and mostly was cut out of decks for curve reasons, as you still need to pack finishers.
I am not playing Wildfire. Played Catastrophe and cut it years ago. It is too expensive for decks that traditionally want an Armageddon. That leaves it to control decks. Six mana wraths are bad, you need a four mana wrath earlier just so you can survive and cast it. The Armageddon side is the least used mode, and in my experience never won a game you otherwise wouldn't win anyway (let alone with a different 6 drop in hand). It has some flexibility but no solid mode and mostly was cut out of decks for curve reasons, as you still need to pack finishers.
Different strokes for different folks / cubes, I guess. I don't think 6 mana is unreasonable for a sweeper, especially since many people support Wildfire / Upheaval strategies. While 6-mana isn't the best rate for either a Wrath or Armageddon, having them wrapped in one means you always have options. While Armageddon may be the lesser played mode, it just flat out wins the game when resolved.
A long time favorite and white top 20 card...that seems to become outdated and looks so much better on paper than it plays out.
The CC makes this a control only card. Against aggro it is rarely a good choice to go armageddon mode. Usually when you have control of the game you will win without blowing up all lands. So it plays like a expensive wrath against aggro. Against control is where this card is shining. But that's not enough for a card to justify its inclusion in cube (only played in control decks and only realy good against control decks).
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For aggro, you play it in Wrath mode if your opponent has stabilized with creature(s) that effectively blank yours. You play it in geddon mode if you've got the board presence.
For control, you play in in Wrath mode, and it's a wrath, always good. You play it in geddon mode if you've stabilized.
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So to sum up, it goes in just about every deck and is good against just about every deck.
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I think what people are saying is that aggro has a better chance to put the game away if it's not running Catastrophe and running a cheaper card that can apply pressure instead. I don't run anything that costs over 5 in aggro and I prefer not to run anything over 4 so our definitions of aggro could vary.
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Catastrophe is a card that looks good if you have a shot at reaching 6 mana, but I honestly cannot recall the last time it was used to good effect here, so yeah.
Catastrophe is the only 6cc card I think I would ever run in aggro.
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In aggro I like to keep the curve as low as possible. As many one and two drops as possible, maybe two or three 4 drops as curve toppers. If you are running 15 or 16 lands, running a 6 cc doesn't feel like the right move. I would prefer Inferno Titan if I had to play a six drop. Or Thundermaw Dragon as aggresive reach if you have a slow aggro deck (with quite a number of cards with cc higher than 3).
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I agree with most of this. I do try to keep the curve very low, but Catastrophe can be worth it.
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Maybe in a slow format it would good in aggro, but I see it more as a midrange/control card, cast 90% of the time as an overcosted Wrath.
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Different strokes for different folks / cubes, I guess. I don't think 6 mana is unreasonable for a sweeper, especially since many people support Wildfire / Upheaval strategies. While 6-mana isn't the best rate for either a Wrath or Armageddon, having them wrapped in one means you always have options. While Armageddon may be the lesser played mode, it just flat out wins the game when resolved.
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