This stems from our conversation about concentration of aggro 1 drops in each color in the Random Card thread yesterday, which made me realize I can probably cut a 1 drop from red and from white. White has plenty of interesting options further up the curve, but red seems light, especially at 2.
Players have talked for a long time about how every color has a marquee 2 drop creature except red. Stoneforge Mystic, Snapcaster Mage, and Dark Confidant are really sweet effects that are perfect for their colors. Tarmogoyf is an undercosted beater that creates a small subgame, especially in constructed formats. Red has nothing like these.
Moreover, there are all kinds of interesting 2 drops in every color except red in most cubes. In addition to the above, white has Thalia, Selfless Spirit, and all the creatures for bounce packages like Kor Skyfisher, Lone Missionary, and Wall of Omens. Blue has Phantasmal Image, flip Jace, all the looting effects. Black has Bloodghast, Asylum Visitor, Pack Rat, and Scrapheap Scrounger. Green has Rofellos, Lotus Cobra, Fauna Shaman, Sylvan Advocate, and Duskwatch Recruiter.
You can squabble about how good some of those cards are. But the fact is that they're all at least interesting effects. Red has one engine effect in Young Pyromancer and then the Abbot of Keral Keep / Ire Shaman effect that makes them into effectively 3 or 4 drops.
I got excited with Grenzo, Havoc Raiser, figuring that we might finally have something cool. But RR killed it for me.
Does anyone have any recommendations that are out of the ordinary?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
I always thought Generator Servant from M15 was an interesting design. The idea of hasting out a 5-drop on turn three is appealing (kinda like a oneshot Sneak Attack), but I think I only saw it pulled of once. Mostly it tabled or rotted away in sideboards, so I cut it a while ago.
It's not exactly out of the ordinary but I'd say the best red 2-drop you're not running right now is War-Name Aspirant. It usually comes down as a 3/2, and it does have limited evasion. My own red 2-drop section is quite straightforward, just a bunch of cheap, dumb beaters that (usually) attack for 3 plus Young Pyromancer. If you're looking to go deeper, I don't think there's anything all that ordinary worth considering unless you start considering the rr options like:
I don't think double red necessarily has to be a deal breaker either. If your drafters often go for mono-red and red heavy RDW style decks, a rr creature or two will probably see enough on-curve play to justify the slot. Out of that lot, I like Eidolon the best.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
465 card Unpowered cube thread. Draft it here and I'll be happy to return the favor.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
Lightning Mauler is a good aggro beater that also has application in midrange decks. He's also OK in reanimator and other fatty cheating decks. It's a pretty standard inclusion though, so this may not be that helpful.
Abbot of Keral Keep has been ok for us, not amazing but he is some card advantage for red and occasionally beats for 4. Reckless Reveler has been surprisingly useful at times, he beats on curve then kills an artifact when he gets outclassed.
I always kinda liked Sigiled Skink, its not strong enough for most cubes though but it's an unusual effect for red.
- Hellspark Elemental or Stormblood Berserker, if you like being aggro ;
- Torch Fiend or Reckless Reveler, if you need more artifact hate ;
- Kiln Fiend or Thermo-Alchemist, if you want to support the spells matter archetype
I also like Ashling the Pilgrim, but Kargan Dragonlord is a better mana sink
Decent suggestions here, and I think all cubes should be running Stormblood. He's such a beating. Also, Plated Geopede is pretty boss.
We've been trying out Goblin Kaboomist recently and, while not being awesome, it did some decent job in none agressive red lists so far. With a little bit of luck (that's the sad part of it...), it can generates a lot of boardstate advantage on the defense. Being able to kill multiple small threats is interesting coming from a simple 2-drop. Not planning on keeping him on the long run, but still. Hugh variance cards. We've seen game in which it has created about 5 mines and other in which it hasn't produced any at all. Still just cost 2-mana though.
I'm in the same situation as you OP, as I'm also running a ~400 unpowered cube. I don't like running bland 3 powered 2 drops and beside a few interesting cards, most of the special red 2 drops are double red. Just look at black to compare: (Those I'm running)
Looking aside relentless dead and bloodghast being double black. These cards all provide "minigames" or gameplay around their abilities while being being very powerful. 4 of them have 3 power. Seeing how WOTC pushed black aggro 2 drops without them seeing much standard play gives me hope that red will get the same love some time soon. Especially now when they don't print fast burn spells as often. Just 2-3 cards would go a long way.
- Torch Fiend or Reckless Reveler, if you need more artifact hate
I was thinking about it recently (mostly as I raised my eyebrow a bit from seeing it in modo cube) - but it seems like the days of Torch Fiend/Reckless Reveler have been eclipsed in cube thanks to getting lots of good red 2s in the past few years.
At least in 720, red's two drops could definitely improve and Torch Fiend and Reckless Reveler are not near the chopping block. Also, they are among the best cheap anti-artifact red cards and those effects are needed in powered cubes.
Ya, Reveler and Fiend aren't great cards, but I think they're better than the vanilla 3/2 creatures in powered lists. I'd rather have extra maindeckable artifact hate if I'm going to have a mediocre evasion-less body anyways. Ideally I wouldn't use any ...but red's list of good 2cc creatures isn't particularly deep.
I'd rather not have to rely on drafting specific multicolor cards to curve out properly if I can avoid it. The powerlevel would probably be higher, but you'd have to exclude some powerful multicolor cards to fit them in, and each red deck would probably have less overall tools available at its disposal.
Would it be better to run more red multicolor two drops with added power than vanilla red cards?
The best red aggro decks are often mono-red, or very close to it, so multicolor red 2-drops are definitely no substitute for having enough red 2-drops. However, I don't think there's anything wrong with dedicating a few of your red guild slots to 2-drops if you want to add extra support to that part of the curve for aggro decks. Voltaic Brawler, Flinthoof Boar, and Burning-tree Emissary are all decent choices in Gruul, and Spike Jester and Grenzo, Dungeon Warden are decent for Rakdos. I can't say I'm a fan of any of the Boros 2-drops, but Figure of Destiny is functionally a 2-drop as well as a 1-drop, so that helps.
Again, I'd run these in addition to, not instead of your regular complement of red 2s.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
465 card Unpowered cube thread. Draft it here and I'll be happy to return the favor.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
Seems a bit early to be ranking Viashino Pyromancer and Dismissive Pyromancer, but I'd much rather play Dismissive than Viashino. Also I'd put Plated Geopede up there in the top of tier 2.
Players have talked for a long time about how every color has a marquee 2 drop creature except red. Stoneforge Mystic, Snapcaster Mage, and Dark Confidant are really sweet effects that are perfect for their colors. Tarmogoyf is an undercosted beater that creates a small subgame, especially in constructed formats. Red has nothing like these.
Moreover, there are all kinds of interesting 2 drops in every color except red in most cubes. In addition to the above, white has Thalia, Selfless Spirit, and all the creatures for bounce packages like Kor Skyfisher, Lone Missionary, and Wall of Omens. Blue has Phantasmal Image, flip Jace, all the looting effects. Black has Bloodghast, Asylum Visitor, Pack Rat, and Scrapheap Scrounger. Green has Rofellos, Lotus Cobra, Fauna Shaman, Sylvan Advocate, and Duskwatch Recruiter.
You can squabble about how good some of those cards are. But the fact is that they're all at least interesting effects. Red has one engine effect in Young Pyromancer and then the Abbot of Keral Keep / Ire Shaman effect that makes them into effectively 3 or 4 drops.
I got excited with Grenzo, Havoc Raiser, figuring that we might finally have something cool. But RR killed it for me.
Does anyone have any recommendations that are out of the ordinary?
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
But it is definitly out of the ordinary.
and, of course, Grenzo.
I don't think double red necessarily has to be a deal breaker either. If your drafters often go for mono-red and red heavy RDW style decks, a rr creature or two will probably see enough on-curve play to justify the slot. Out of that lot, I like Eidolon the best.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
Kargan Dragonlord is a bit slow but cool.
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
I always kinda liked Sigiled Skink, its not strong enough for most cubes though but it's an unusual effect for red.
Decent suggestions here, and I think all cubes should be running Stormblood. He's such a beating. Also, Plated Geopede is pretty boss.
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
Zetsu's Cube on CubeTutor.com
Zetsu's Ebay MTG Online Store
Zetsu's Poker Draft Method
Asylum Visitor
Blood Artist
Bloodghast
Dark Confidant
Heir of Falkenrath
Oona's Prowler
Pack Rat
Relentless Dead
Scrapheap Scrounger
Looking aside relentless dead and bloodghast being double black. These cards all provide "minigames" or gameplay around their abilities while being being very powerful. 4 of them have 3 power. Seeing how WOTC pushed black aggro 2 drops without them seeing much standard play gives me hope that red will get the same love some time soon. Especially now when they don't print fast burn spells as often. Just 2-3 cards would go a long way.
I was thinking about it recently (mostly as I raised my eyebrow a bit from seeing it in modo cube) - but it seems like the days of Torch Fiend/Reckless Reveler have been eclipsed in cube thanks to getting lots of good red 2s in the past few years.
I used to write cube articles on StarCityGames, now for GatheringMagic and podcast about cube (w/Antknee42.)
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
The best red aggro decks are often mono-red, or very close to it, so multicolor red 2-drops are definitely no substitute for having enough red 2-drops. However, I don't think there's anything wrong with dedicating a few of your red guild slots to 2-drops if you want to add extra support to that part of the curve for aggro decks. Voltaic Brawler, Flinthoof Boar, and Burning-tree Emissary are all decent choices in Gruul, and Spike Jester and Grenzo, Dungeon Warden are decent for Rakdos. I can't say I'm a fan of any of the Boros 2-drops, but Figure of Destiny is functionally a 2-drop as well as a 1-drop, so that helps.
Again, I'd run these in addition to, not instead of your regular complement of red 2s.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
Young Pyromancer
Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
Stormblood Berserker
Earthshaker Khenra
Tier 2: Interchangeable aggro 2 drops that are all fairly close in power and choices are negligible.
Keldon Marauders
Hellspark Elemental
Dire Fleet Daredevil
Viashino Pyromancer
Ash Zealot
Aether Chaser
Lightning Mauler
Plated Geopede
Tier 3: 2 drops that don't necessarily support traditional aggro, provide different utility, or have significant drawbacks.
Abbot of Keral Keep
Cheering Fanatic
Eidolon of the Great Revel
Burning-Fist Minotaur
Dismissive Pyromancer
Dark-Dweller Oracle
Cube dependent: Really depends on archetype support, and cube composition.
Kiln Fiend
Harsh Mentor
Hard to organize so many cards but i think i would break them into these tiers. Listed in no particular order within each tier.
Young Pyromancer
Kari Zev
Tier 2:
Dire Fleet Daredevil
Viashino Pyromancer
Keldon Marauders
Earthshaker Khenra
Abbot of Keral Keep
Stormblood Berserker
Tier 3:
Aether Chaser
Harsh Mentor
Dismissive Pyromancer
Eidolon of the Great Revel
Tier 4:
Plated Geopede
Burning-Fist Minotaur
Ash Zealot
Lightning Mauler
Hellspark Elemental
Dark-Dweller Oracle
Tier 5:
Cheering Fanatic
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022