Ok guys, I posted here a week ago, this is pretty much my first dating experience and I want some insight on how to "move" with this chick.
Her name is Kaori, she's an exchange student here in Mexico, an I think I'm in love with her. She broke up with her boyfriend some weeks ago and since then she's been getting emotionally better than she used to be.
Smoe days ago, Kaori wrote me a FB message telling me she'd love to see me on Skype, so we talked and in general we had a lot of fun and found out we have many things in common. We both love Monster Hunter, Magic the Gathering, she likes Anime and so do I, but I'd like to be able to "read" thru her reactions.
She was trying to make me laugh. Sometimes she's hide under the table and come out with a fake mustache and then cover her face as she laughed. She also told me she'd like to come to my city (she lives an hour away) to spend some time with me and she wants me to go everywhere with her cuz she'd "feel safer". Also, she asked me about my ex, and she told me "I don't have a boyfriend anymore, but now I'm looking for a new and cute guy". She then got ashamed and said "Sorry sorry sorry, it was a joke! Don't belive me! I'm so sorry!".
Kaori seems to "ignore" or be shy arround most guys, and she mocks the otaku culture a lot. However when we were talking she openly accepted she's an otaku (reason why her family disowns her and she's got close to no friends) and told me a very embarrassing story about her first visit to the medic in Mexico, like, I had the impression she could talk about stuff and feel secure.
However she's a party girl, like, she goes out with her girlfriends to drink, talk until the wee hours of the night and goes to events, while I find night the worst time to be out and me and my friends would rather go eat some pizza, enjoy a coffee on the afternoon and go for a walk until night falls, which seemed to be a turn off for her as she made some sort of ":/" Expression.
We talked three days ago and she hasn't talked about visiting here since then (tho she's kinda forgetful too), and I'm very excited if she comes since she's pretty much the girl of my dreams (so far, I don't really like "otakuness").
The thing is, I don't want to make a move unless I'm sure she feels something for me. Pro daters, any tips on knowing when to?
I'm no "pro dater" (whatever that is), but I've dated a number of women and learned some important lessons along the way. I can relate very much to your situation, I had many of the same thoughts and feelings when I was about 18-20. I've figured out a lot of things since then (sometimes hard lessons). I'm not going to sugar-coat my advice, but please don't take offense. I'm being blunt to be direct and clear. Ask questions if you have any.
Her name is Kaori, she's an exchange student here in Mexico, an I think I'm in love with her. She broke up with her boyfriend some weeks ago and since then she's been getting emotionally better than she used to be.
First of all, you are not in love with her. You are infatuated with her. This is a strong emotion, I get it. But it's not love. Think of how you feel toward a cherished family member or an old friend who's stood by you for a long time. That's closer to love than what you're feeling. You are not the first person to experience the emotion you're feeling, and I guarantee you she is not the only girl who can make you feel this way. You need to take a step back from your emotions for a minute and re-focus yourself on other things you care about. You need to get a little less invested and obsessive. That's the first step to my advice.
Why am I telling you this? Becuase you're expressing neediness, and excessive neediness is bar-none the most unattractive trait a person can have (in relationships, in friendships, etc). A girl would much rather date non-needy 400-pound guy with horrible acne scarring than she would an attractive, muscular guy who is dependent upon her every word and action for his self-worth and happiness. Neediness is constant emotional mooching. It's the emotional equivalent of constantly asking her to give you cash. You need to figure out how to enjoy spending time with her, without needing her to like you. You need to figure out how to have fun and pleasant conversations with her without stressing about when she's going to call back (or text, email, whatever). You need to like her without loving her. It's way too early to start loving her.
She was trying to make me laugh. Sometimes she's hide under the table and come out with a fake mustache and then cover her face as she laughed. She also told me she'd like to come to my city (she lives an hour away) to spend some time with me and she wants me to go everywhere with her cuz she'd "feel safer". Also, she asked me about my ex, and she told me "I don't have a boyfriend anymore, but now I'm looking for a new and cute guy". She then got ashamed and said "Sorry sorry sorry, it was a joke! Don't belive me! I'm so sorry!".
It's impossible to say for sure based on a textual description, but what you're describing sounds like typical flirting. She is probably interested in you to some degree. She has been very open and vulnerable with you about her feelings.
Girls rarely come out and say "I'm attracted to you." Call it sexism if you want, but in the western world men are still expected to be the first one to make their feelings overt. My current girlfriend is from Mexico, and as I understand from her it's even more expected there than in the US. "Shy" girls are especially unlikely to be overt about their feelings.
The thing is, I don't want to make a move unless I'm sure she feels something for me. Pro daters, any tips on knowing when to?
Wanting to "make sure she feels something for me" out of a fear of rejection is another example of neediness. Trying to plan things out perfectly so everything goes just exactly right is an example of neediness. It's also fundamentally dishonest. It's like you're trying to plan out an elaborate hoax to "trick" her into liking you, or like you're planning out the moves in a game so you "win." I know you don't see it that way, but that's what it is. If she likes you, she will like the genuine, honest, brave you that isn't afraid to be honest in the face of possible rejection and disappointment.
So here's the practical part about how you do this.
Don't: Proclaim your undying love. Plan out a grand romantic gesture where you pop out of a cake with flowers and ask her to be your girlfriend. Ask her out on some crazy fancy date that is uncharacteristic of your past interactions. Ask to have some kind of big, long, serious talk about your "relationship." [These are all needy behaviors - you're trying so hard to impress her or "force" her to like you]
Do: Show that you like her and are attracted to her though your words and actions. Plan something fun for the two of you that is characteristic of the way you would normally hang out (a walk in the park, a movie). Hold her hand when the two of you are walking somewhere and having a good time. Be warm and open with her. Flirt with her in fun and playful ways like you describe her doing with you. If the hand-holding works out, then move on to putting your arm around her. Then, if that works out, to kissing her in an appropriate place and time (ie not in public). Tell her "I think you're cute and fun; let's spend spend some more time together (figure out a time next week or whatever)."
If the "Do's" work out, then awesome. Keep being warm, honest, and non-needy. keep moving things forward at a steady pace, and let the relationship develop and grow organically. Relationships are not some magic switch where, once you kiss her, you're together now and suddenly you do everything together and eventually get married. A relationship is a process just like a friendship. Learn to enjoy the process, don't focus on some end result.
If the "Do's" are rejected (she doesn't want to hold hands, she consistently resists hanging out) then she isn't into you. Find another girl and move on. You will feel the same way about a new girl once you get to know her, and you'll wonder what was so special about this one. The worst mistake you can make is to keep getting more invested in the same girl and needier. The more invested and needy you become, the less attractive you will become, and it's a vicious spiral that's extremely hard to escape. This is what people often call the "friendzone," but it's more accurate to call it the "neediess-denial-of-my-true-feelings-because-I'm-scared-zone."
Also, when we talked she told me "I'm not sure if I want a boyfriend now", but she wasn't even serious, she was blushed and trying not to laugh. By then I hadn't even asked her anything and she seemed to cover up the fact she was very ashamed to tell me she was looking for a boyfriend.
A female friend told me she MIGHT be looking for a boyfriend because she got really, REALLY blushed when she told me that, however she might have told me "She's joking and actually not looking" just to look, as you said, less "needier" towards guys as well.
Stop being a nerd and just ask her straight up. The worst that could happen is you have to move on with your life.
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“A man's at odds to know his mind cause his mind is aught he has to know it with. He can know his heart, but he dont want to. Rightly so. Best not to look in there. It aint the heart of a creature that is bound in the way that God has set for it. You can find meanness in the least of creatures, but when God made man the devil was at his elbow. A creature that can do anything. Make a machine. And a machine to make the machine. And evil that can run itself a thousand years, no need to tend it.”
― Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian, or the Evening Redness in the West
Also, when we talked she told me "I'm not sure if I want a boyfriend now", but she wasn't even serious, she was blushed and trying not to laugh. By then I hadn't even asked her anything and she seemed to cover up the fact she was very ashamed to tell me she was looking for a boyfriend.
A female friend told me she MIGHT be looking for a boyfriend because she got really, REALLY blushed when she told me that, however she might have told me "She's joking and actually not looking" just to look, as you said, less "needier" towards guys as well.
Like I said, it's impossible to tell over the internet, but it sounds like she has some amount of interest in you. But that's really not what you should be focusing on. Constantly analyzing her actions and strategizing how to respond is a needy behavior. It's trying to fit yourself into the mold of what you think she wants. That's needy and not entirely honest. Be your real self and stop putting so much stock in what she thinks if you want to have any chance here.
The one thing sappy movies get right is that girls love bravery. And there's nothing braver than being fully ok with rejection. It takes a great deal of self-worth and confidence to genuinely say "I want her to like me, but I don't need her to like me. I would rather be true to myself."
You should do what I suggested you do in the "Do's" section above. You will never know for sure whether she likes you unless you make your feelings and intentions known in a genuine and non-needy way. To summarize what I said above, you do this by (1) setting up an opportunity to spend time together where you genuinely have fun and "play" with one another (like how she playfully puts on mustaches and laughs with you), and (2) make your interest in her known by unmistakably escalating things romantically in an honest and non-needy way (holding her hand, touching her shoulder, saying you like her and you would have fun hanging out again sometime, etc).
The only way to act honestly, genuinely non-needy is to be honestly, genuinely non-needy. That's why I said the first step is let go of your fixation on this one particular girl. Not every person you meet will be friends with you. Not every girl you think is cute and fun will want to date you. You make friends by being genuinely friendly and open; you accept the people you mesh with while not sweating the people you never connect with.
The same is true of romantic relationships. You can't magically flip a switch and make them work; you can't plan and strategize them into existence. You have to put yourself out there and see if it works. If it doesn't work, there are tons of other girls out there. A relationship isn't a video game where you level up from "friends" to "kissing" to "sex" to "marriage." Dating is more like a treasure hunt, where you know that most of the places you "dig" won't turn out to have the "treasure" you're looking for, but eventually if you keep digging and you see the process as a fun learning experience, you'll find what you're looking for.
I've been told recently by a friend that they didn't want to be the "rebound guy." You don't want to be the rebound guy. She might still be attached to her ex and looking for a fling. That's not a basis for a serious relationship.
You could always ask her. But be prepared for the crushing rejection if she says no. Rejection by a potential romantic partner is one of the worst feelings in the world.
Her name is Kaori, she's an exchange student here in Mexico, an I think I'm in love with her. She broke up with her boyfriend some weeks ago and since then she's been getting emotionally better than she used to be.
Smoe days ago, Kaori wrote me a FB message telling me she'd love to see me on Skype, so we talked and in general we had a lot of fun and found out we have many things in common. We both love Monster Hunter, Magic the Gathering, she likes Anime and so do I, but I'd like to be able to "read" thru her reactions.
She was trying to make me laugh. Sometimes she's hide under the table and come out with a fake mustache and then cover her face as she laughed. She also told me she'd like to come to my city (she lives an hour away) to spend some time with me and she wants me to go everywhere with her cuz she'd "feel safer". Also, she asked me about my ex, and she told me "I don't have a boyfriend anymore, but now I'm looking for a new and cute guy". She then got ashamed and said "Sorry sorry sorry, it was a joke! Don't belive me! I'm so sorry!".
Kaori seems to "ignore" or be shy arround most guys, and she mocks the otaku culture a lot. However when we were talking she openly accepted she's an otaku (reason why her family disowns her and she's got close to no friends) and told me a very embarrassing story about her first visit to the medic in Mexico, like, I had the impression she could talk about stuff and feel secure.
However she's a party girl, like, she goes out with her girlfriends to drink, talk until the wee hours of the night and goes to events, while I find night the worst time to be out and me and my friends would rather go eat some pizza, enjoy a coffee on the afternoon and go for a walk until night falls, which seemed to be a turn off for her as she made some sort of ":/" Expression.
We talked three days ago and she hasn't talked about visiting here since then (tho she's kinda forgetful too), and I'm very excited if she comes since she's pretty much the girl of my dreams (so far, I don't really like "otakuness").
The thing is, I don't want to make a move unless I'm sure she feels something for me. Pro daters, any tips on knowing when to?
First of all, you are not in love with her. You are infatuated with her. This is a strong emotion, I get it. But it's not love. Think of how you feel toward a cherished family member or an old friend who's stood by you for a long time. That's closer to love than what you're feeling. You are not the first person to experience the emotion you're feeling, and I guarantee you she is not the only girl who can make you feel this way. You need to take a step back from your emotions for a minute and re-focus yourself on other things you care about. You need to get a little less invested and obsessive. That's the first step to my advice.
Why am I telling you this? Becuase you're expressing neediness, and excessive neediness is bar-none the most unattractive trait a person can have (in relationships, in friendships, etc). A girl would much rather date non-needy 400-pound guy with horrible acne scarring than she would an attractive, muscular guy who is dependent upon her every word and action for his self-worth and happiness. Neediness is constant emotional mooching. It's the emotional equivalent of constantly asking her to give you cash. You need to figure out how to enjoy spending time with her, without needing her to like you. You need to figure out how to have fun and pleasant conversations with her without stressing about when she's going to call back (or text, email, whatever). You need to like her without loving her. It's way too early to start loving her.
It's impossible to say for sure based on a textual description, but what you're describing sounds like typical flirting. She is probably interested in you to some degree. She has been very open and vulnerable with you about her feelings.
Girls rarely come out and say "I'm attracted to you." Call it sexism if you want, but in the western world men are still expected to be the first one to make their feelings overt. My current girlfriend is from Mexico, and as I understand from her it's even more expected there than in the US. "Shy" girls are especially unlikely to be overt about their feelings.
Wanting to "make sure she feels something for me" out of a fear of rejection is another example of neediness. Trying to plan things out perfectly so everything goes just exactly right is an example of neediness. It's also fundamentally dishonest. It's like you're trying to plan out an elaborate hoax to "trick" her into liking you, or like you're planning out the moves in a game so you "win." I know you don't see it that way, but that's what it is. If she likes you, she will like the genuine, honest, brave you that isn't afraid to be honest in the face of possible rejection and disappointment.
So here's the practical part about how you do this.
Don't: Proclaim your undying love. Plan out a grand romantic gesture where you pop out of a cake with flowers and ask her to be your girlfriend. Ask her out on some crazy fancy date that is uncharacteristic of your past interactions. Ask to have some kind of big, long, serious talk about your "relationship." [These are all needy behaviors - you're trying so hard to impress her or "force" her to like you]
Do: Show that you like her and are attracted to her though your words and actions. Plan something fun for the two of you that is characteristic of the way you would normally hang out (a walk in the park, a movie). Hold her hand when the two of you are walking somewhere and having a good time. Be warm and open with her. Flirt with her in fun and playful ways like you describe her doing with you. If the hand-holding works out, then move on to putting your arm around her. Then, if that works out, to kissing her in an appropriate place and time (ie not in public). Tell her "I think you're cute and fun; let's spend spend some more time together (figure out a time next week or whatever)."
If the "Do's" work out, then awesome. Keep being warm, honest, and non-needy. keep moving things forward at a steady pace, and let the relationship develop and grow organically. Relationships are not some magic switch where, once you kiss her, you're together now and suddenly you do everything together and eventually get married. A relationship is a process just like a friendship. Learn to enjoy the process, don't focus on some end result.
If the "Do's" are rejected (she doesn't want to hold hands, she consistently resists hanging out) then she isn't into you. Find another girl and move on. You will feel the same way about a new girl once you get to know her, and you'll wonder what was so special about this one. The worst mistake you can make is to keep getting more invested in the same girl and needier. The more invested and needy you become, the less attractive you will become, and it's a vicious spiral that's extremely hard to escape. This is what people often call the "friendzone," but it's more accurate to call it the "neediess-denial-of-my-true-feelings-because-I'm-scared-zone."
Also, when we talked she told me "I'm not sure if I want a boyfriend now", but she wasn't even serious, she was blushed and trying not to laugh. By then I hadn't even asked her anything and she seemed to cover up the fact she was very ashamed to tell me she was looking for a boyfriend.
A female friend told me she MIGHT be looking for a boyfriend because she got really, REALLY blushed when she told me that, however she might have told me "She's joking and actually not looking" just to look, as you said, less "needier" towards guys as well.
What should I do? What do you think?
She will tell you.
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Modern: Affinity
Vintage: BUR Grixis Control
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Stop being a nerd and just ask her straight up. The worst that could happen is you have to move on with your life.
― Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian, or the Evening Redness in the West
Like I said, it's impossible to tell over the internet, but it sounds like she has some amount of interest in you. But that's really not what you should be focusing on. Constantly analyzing her actions and strategizing how to respond is a needy behavior. It's trying to fit yourself into the mold of what you think she wants. That's needy and not entirely honest. Be your real self and stop putting so much stock in what she thinks if you want to have any chance here.
The one thing sappy movies get right is that girls love bravery. And there's nothing braver than being fully ok with rejection. It takes a great deal of self-worth and confidence to genuinely say "I want her to like me, but I don't need her to like me. I would rather be true to myself."
You should do what I suggested you do in the "Do's" section above. You will never know for sure whether she likes you unless you make your feelings and intentions known in a genuine and non-needy way. To summarize what I said above, you do this by (1) setting up an opportunity to spend time together where you genuinely have fun and "play" with one another (like how she playfully puts on mustaches and laughs with you), and (2) make your interest in her known by unmistakably escalating things romantically in an honest and non-needy way (holding her hand, touching her shoulder, saying you like her and you would have fun hanging out again sometime, etc).
The only way to act honestly, genuinely non-needy is to be honestly, genuinely non-needy. That's why I said the first step is let go of your fixation on this one particular girl. Not every person you meet will be friends with you. Not every girl you think is cute and fun will want to date you. You make friends by being genuinely friendly and open; you accept the people you mesh with while not sweating the people you never connect with.
The same is true of romantic relationships. You can't magically flip a switch and make them work; you can't plan and strategize them into existence. You have to put yourself out there and see if it works. If it doesn't work, there are tons of other girls out there. A relationship isn't a video game where you level up from "friends" to "kissing" to "sex" to "marriage." Dating is more like a treasure hunt, where you know that most of the places you "dig" won't turn out to have the "treasure" you're looking for, but eventually if you keep digging and you see the process as a fun learning experience, you'll find what you're looking for.
You could always ask her. But be prepared for the crushing rejection if she says no. Rejection by a potential romantic partner is one of the worst feelings in the world.