Hey whats up fellow planes-walkers! i am a competitive yugioh player and I used to play magic i want to get back into the game not all at once or majorly but i need help the last time 2 years ago I dint really know anything bout magic:the gathering and my parents are hardcore christian in mostly everything they do my mom isn't taken by it she is normal but my mom just "gets a bad vibe from magic tg" my dad thinks its evil because he dosent like the idea of it and im like WHAT IDEA1!!??? its an old ordinary game! i personally think he just dosent like that its called magic. my dad thinks "i don't believe in god because i like magic" and he is very hard core christian (mormon) but i have had mormon friends that have played it. i want to get a deck as a just in case for when i might want to play its not like im gona switch from YGO to MTG im gona play both but untill a year or two no competitive magi PLEASE HELP ME!(the art may or may not have something to do with it)
Fairly sure this should be in personal advice, not community issues, but i'm not a mod and that isn't my job, so i'm not going to pass judgement on that one.
In regards to the OP, I know how that is. I have these three weird scars on my back that i'm not really sure where they came from, and i had one girlfriend who was pretty religious (jehova's witness) And she told me it was because of the cards. Not all the cards, just one card specifically, abyssal persecutor.
I can see how religious people wouldn't like it. There are gods and devils and demons and things like that. It looks like some weird kind of cult thing, but they don't understand that it's just a card game.
I guess different people act and think differently. My mom was afraid of computers because she thought that they could steal her personal information. My computer in my room, would somehow take her information, and steal it, and do nothing in particular with it but to have it. Silly, i know, but it took a lot of explaining and a smart phone to get her to understand.
Maybe you'll have to run an angel deck and show them the game is just a game? I don't know. Parents can be pretty tough. I can't really tell you to go against their wishes, but you shouldn't be not allowed to play because they don't like it. You're the one playing it, not them.
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Whats the big deal about black lotus you ask? Well you see, there is no big deal about it. It IS the big deal.
Thanks i totally missed personal advice but thanks i have no prob with angels mabye i can use "its just a game" to help me i might use angels utill they both settle down or keep my dad out of the loop completely. and.... WHY THE F*** IS ABYSSAL PERSECUTER IN THE GAME!?
Maybe maybe. It probably wouldn't be too hard to keep it away from them. A deck box is pretty small and as long as they aren't the kind of ones to go through your personal stuff you would be ok.
But i really can't condone you going behind your parents back. You should give a reasonable argument to them, and show them some of the cards and nicer artworks, and maybe they will come around.
As an aside, there are 74 different demons in the game. And 15 devil's. So abyssal is not the only one by a long shot. But there are also 107 angels.and 15 gods.
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Whats the big deal about black lotus you ask? Well you see, there is no big deal about it. It IS the big deal.
no i wont go behind their backs but when more advice is givin then i will talk to them and tell them and i will say that i am more mature now tht may help and my dad is sorta in the ygo loop my mom is defenately and jjust avoid my dad thanks gota get more opinions tho and show them the goods and by then my dad wont even care if he ever sees some of the more crude stuff like [pacifisum][/card]he wont really care
Yeah that makes sense. Sorry i can only be of so much help to you. If you're looking for things to say to them, i can't give you a whole lot. My dad was never in the picture and my mom was less than observant. So growing up i was left pretty much to my own devices and raised a lot by my brother (which is a lot of what got me into the game when i was 7 or 8.)
But maybe you could also get them in to the game. You can pick up a two player starter pack and get one of them to play the game with you to see what it is all about. If they play it a few times they may seem how harmless it is. Or maybe have them read some of the lore for it. haha.
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Whats the big deal about black lotus you ask? Well you see, there is no big deal about it. It IS the big deal.
DaAsker, please attempt to use proper punctuation when writing your posts. Right now your posts are practically unreadable, but I think I get the general impression.
When dealing with strict parents (it doesn't matter whether or not they're religious), maturity is key. That means acting mature in all aspects of your life, not just trying to be mature when you talk to them about the game. That's the thing most young people don't understand: trying to be mature to get something you want is a tactic that's really easy for parents to see through.
Here is what you need to do:
- Do your research: What does Mormon doctrine actually say about playing cards? From the little bit of research I did, only gambling games are objectionable.
- Be respectful: When your parents say no, don't drop the maturity and act indignant. Once you're an adult you can make your own decisions, but since you're living with your parents right now, you're also living by their rules.
- Be prepared to lose: You may simply just not get your way, and you have to be willing to accept that.
Ultimately, though, Yugioh and Magic aren't pretty similar in terms of themes, there is no objective reason why you would be allowed to play one and not the other. That said, parents are just people and are just as incapable of being objective as anyone else. It sounds like your father's concern is the word 'Magic' and your connection to your religion. You need to reassure him that these fears are unfounded and that the game is just that: a game.
On a quick search, I found this website, which may help you bridge the religion/gaming gap: http://www.mormongeeks.com/
Thank you for your service. That is probably the right thing to do with the maturity and that "magic" has nothing to really do with it and,again, reassure them it is my choice and try to explain and on top of that i was younger then and he may trust me now and use some of that helpful Mormon knowledge to help me. thank you.
Thanks i totally missed personal advice but thanks i have no prob with angels mabye i can use "its just a game" to help me i might use angels utill they both settle down or keep my dad out of the loop completely. and.... WHY THE F*** IS ABYSSAL PERSECUTER IN THE GAME!?
I don't mean to seem rude either, but you seem pretty racist on this front. Army of Allah translates to Army of God. An Army of God can't be evil, just like an Angel. A Jihad is an internal war with yourself and your sins. The two cards you quoted literally mean army of God, and war against sin. How can you say that is worse than the devil and demons?
Just because people have killed in the name of "allah" or "god" doesn't mean that any Army of Allah kills for that reason and causes countless deaths, and Jihad as the official meaning is a war against sin within yourself.
The people who use Jihad, and fight in the name of Allah causing unnecessary deaths are an extremely small minority of people who share that belief. Something you would understand after reading the scriptures.
Lastly, to religious people, the Devil and demons are VERY real, and cause a great deal of harm. More than any human ever has. I understand you weren't trying to be offensive, but literally every part of your post was offense, and made you sound unread. I would ask please to do a little research before posting on a matter like that, especially when it is as culturally sensitive as that. Thank you.
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Whats the big deal about black lotus you ask? Well you see, there is no big deal about it. It IS the big deal.
I don't mean to seem rude either, but you seem pretty racist on this front. Army of Allah translates to Army of God. An Army of God can't be evil, just like an Angel. A Jihad is an internal war with yourself and your sins. The two cards you quoted literally mean army of God, and war against sin. How can you say that is worse than the devil and demons?
Just because people have killed in the name of "allah" or "god" doesn't mean that any Army of Allah kills for that reason and causes countless deaths, and Jihad as the official meaning is a war against sin within yourself.
The people who use Jihad, and fight in the name of Allah causing unnecessary deaths are an extremely small minority of people who share that belief. Something you would understand after reading the scriptures.
Lastly, to religious people, the Devil and demons are VERY real, and cause a great deal of harm. More than any human ever has. I understand you weren't trying to be offensive, but literally every part of your post was offense, and made you sound unread. I would ask please to do a little research before posting on a matter like that, especially when it is as culturally sensitive as that. Thank you.
How do I seem racist? (Islam isn't a race) Allah doesn't just mean "god" it is THE god. THEIR god and Jihad isn't necessarily internal either. To be frank i'm not sure you're educated on the subject and I'm going to leave this discussion before it degenerates into something worse.
Angels and Demons are factually not real. They do not exist within reality. This isn't an opinion this is a fact.
Allah means The God in the way that God means The God. That is the way monotheistic religions function. I happen to be highly educated on the subject, and i've backed up my argument with definitions, while you've stated things without actually giving definitions. I'm sorry if anything i said led you to believe this is going anywhere bad, but you were the one who started the conversation questioning my views on reality and calling me uneducated. I said what you said was racist, because you implied cards with words relating to a specific religion and the God they believe in are worse tham demons and devils, something widely believed by people of religion to be the source of all evil and pain in the world.
Allah does not mean THEIR God. It means THE one true God. Something all Abrahamic religions agree on. It does not necessarily mean internal, but only Shiite muslims think that way, and they are generally the branch of Islam that has terrorist attacks. Over 90% OF Islam is Sunni. Those are the Muslims who think of Jihad in that way. You are falling in to the fundamental trap the media has set, painting all muslims in a bad light, and their culture as terrorism, when only a small percentage of them actually thing that way.
Angels and Demons aren't real? Try walking in to a church and telling someone that. If you think the Devil is not real, try walking in to a church and telling someone that.
I've explained my argument, backed it up factually, and haven't insulted you at all. You have insulted me twice, and not backed up your argument, except by saying Theology is your second major, which doesn't quite cut it when you don't have the resources to back it up. I do suggest we end the discussion, because it isn't going anywhere, and doesn't pertain to the original post. If you would like to understand more about muslim culture, and why it is not an afront to other religions, you can feel free to PM me and we can discuss this further, but please keep it out of the thread as it goes nowhere, and i feel you are showing a large amount of intolerance and ignorance to the Islamic faith. Something that bothers me, and i have over-explained myself on why and how with that matter, Thank you.
In regards to the OP however, i would suggest NOT showing those cards to your parents, as most religions tend to believe their's is the correct one, so those cards could seem sacrilegious to your parents.
I would also maybe suggest showing them certain cards that have quoted the Bible in their flavor text, or maybe avoiding those cards, depending on your parents. Maybe they would like that, or they may take that as sacrilegious as well.
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Whats the big deal about black lotus you ask? Well you see, there is no big deal about it. It IS the big deal.
This is RLA, not theology class, do not continue to discuss what religious terms do and do not mean, they're irrelevant to the point. Convincing the OP's father is about what he believes Mormonism is.
Well knowing my father he would probably think that the gods/demons/angels are a good thing (not demons) including bible flavor texts they would not consider it sacrilegious at all also as an update I put together a power point and explained everything I am also going to get in to my formal clothes and be mature so if anyone has ideas of what cards quote the bible and what might be good to include I also used this and printed it out on a txt doc. http://www.mormongeeks.com/2012/03/magic-gathering.html
I would stick with the explanation of what magic is and isn't and leave it at that. A powerpoint seems like a bit much.
Are you allowed to watch fantasy films? Read books with fantasy themes? You said you're allowed to play Yu-Gi-Oh, maybe just start with explaining that it's a game similar to Yu-Gi-Oh with just less cartoony fantasy themes. It's just fiction, a way of representing what is happening in-game.
I would stick with the explanation of what magic is and isn't and leave it at that. A powerpoint seems like a bit much.
Are you allowed to watch fantasy films? Read books with fantasy themes? You said you're allowed to play Yu-Gi-Oh, maybe just start with explaining that it's a game similar to Yu-Gi-Oh with just less cartoony fantasy themes. It's just fiction, a way of representing what is happening in-game.
Its just how I want to get my point across its not a ton but its enough infulence its easy to do and its kinda fun!
I ran into the same problem: same religion, actually.
I was in High School at the time, and decided to go with the "what do I gain?" tactic. I explained that the game allows me to improve my critical decision making, mental math, and social skills at the same time, while still being a fun pastime. We agreed that so long as it didn't interfere with my schooling and with church, they were cool with it.
'course, my parents weren't nearly that strict... their idea of forbidding something was not supporting it financially. so long as I was paying for it myself, they were cool with it, cause, hey, my choice. lol.
I don't mean to seem rude but you must have some skewed view of reality. Demons and devils aren't real. They can't hurt anyone.
In a symbolic meaning they're very real, and are often used to represent the bad traits of people. Some mental illnesses are considered to be influence of demons, for another example. Religions are filled with symbol systems such as these. In essence, demons and devils are just as real as Jihad is: Neither is a concrete thing, but they can manifest in something. Surely enough you could explain "Jihad" as a cultural/geopolitical conflict, just the same way as you can explain Demon-possession as Schizophrenia or Epileptic seizures. The things themselves are abstract concepts, they're not things-in-themselves.
I suppose the main difference is that we have a better understanding of physiology and biology than we do of social sciences, and as such we have scientific explanations for one, but not so much for the other.
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As for the OP: The powerpoint slide is actually a pretty good idea. It shows your parents you're taking this seriously, and that it means a lot for you.
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The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Short version: Ask them how they feel about C.S. Lewis (Tolkien also works but I think Lewis is the better bet here). Lewis is well-respected by most Christians, and he wrote tons of stuff about magic, The Screwtape Letters is even from the perspective of a demon. Point this out and they should see the contradiction and logically understand that it's not an issue. Or they might start hating C.S. Lewis, which is a catastrophic failure but will make for a funny story later on. Win-win!
Play a green-blue deck with Rhinos/lions/boars/whales, then when you move out, have fun with Dark Ritual, Deicide, and Unholy Strength. =)
Also, as an ex-Christian raised by then/current-Christians, I'd advise against randomly telling your dad about the fact that there are "Gods" in the game.
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Standard: [leftovers from booster drafts]
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In regards to the OP, I know how that is. I have these three weird scars on my back that i'm not really sure where they came from, and i had one girlfriend who was pretty religious (jehova's witness) And she told me it was because of the cards. Not all the cards, just one card specifically, abyssal persecutor.
I can see how religious people wouldn't like it. There are gods and devils and demons and things like that. It looks like some weird kind of cult thing, but they don't understand that it's just a card game.
I guess different people act and think differently. My mom was afraid of computers because she thought that they could steal her personal information. My computer in my room, would somehow take her information, and steal it, and do nothing in particular with it but to have it. Silly, i know, but it took a lot of explaining and a smart phone to get her to understand.
Maybe you'll have to run an angel deck and show them the game is just a game? I don't know. Parents can be pretty tough. I can't really tell you to go against their wishes, but you shouldn't be not allowed to play because they don't like it. You're the one playing it, not them.
But i really can't condone you going behind your parents back. You should give a reasonable argument to them, and show them some of the cards and nicer artworks, and maybe they will come around.
As an aside, there are 74 different demons in the game. And 15 devil's. So abyssal is not the only one by a long shot. But there are also 107 angels.and 15 gods.
But maybe you could also get them in to the game. You can pick up a two player starter pack and get one of them to play the game with you to see what it is all about. If they play it a few times they may seem how harmless it is. Or maybe have them read some of the lore for it. haha.
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When dealing with strict parents (it doesn't matter whether or not they're religious), maturity is key. That means acting mature in all aspects of your life, not just trying to be mature when you talk to them about the game. That's the thing most young people don't understand: trying to be mature to get something you want is a tactic that's really easy for parents to see through.
Here is what you need to do:
- Do your research: What does Mormon doctrine actually say about playing cards? From the little bit of research I did, only gambling games are objectionable.
- Be respectful: When your parents say no, don't drop the maturity and act indignant. Once you're an adult you can make your own decisions, but since you're living with your parents right now, you're also living by their rules.
- Be prepared to lose: You may simply just not get your way, and you have to be willing to accept that.
Ultimately, though, Yugioh and Magic aren't pretty similar in terms of themes, there is no objective reason why you would be allowed to play one and not the other. That said, parents are just people and are just as incapable of being objective as anyone else. It sounds like your father's concern is the word 'Magic' and your connection to your religion. You need to reassure him that these fears are unfounded and that the game is just that: a game.
On a quick search, I found this website, which may help you bridge the religion/gaming gap:
http://www.mormongeeks.com/
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
I guess you haven't seen Army of Allah or Jihad.
Like not even in the same ballpark.
I don't mean to seem rude but you must have some skewed view of reality. Demons and devils aren't real. They can't hurt anyone.
Army of Allah and Jihad are very very real and (not to sound anti-islamic) have caused a great many deaths (As a lot of religions have).
Just because people have killed in the name of "allah" or "god" doesn't mean that any Army of Allah kills for that reason and causes countless deaths, and Jihad as the official meaning is a war against sin within yourself.
The people who use Jihad, and fight in the name of Allah causing unnecessary deaths are an extremely small minority of people who share that belief. Something you would understand after reading the scriptures.
Lastly, to religious people, the Devil and demons are VERY real, and cause a great deal of harm. More than any human ever has. I understand you weren't trying to be offensive, but literally every part of your post was offense, and made you sound unread. I would ask please to do a little research before posting on a matter like that, especially when it is as culturally sensitive as that. Thank you.
How do I seem racist? (Islam isn't a race) Allah doesn't just mean "god" it is THE god. THEIR god and Jihad isn't necessarily internal either. To be frank i'm not sure you're educated on the subject and I'm going to leave this discussion before it degenerates into something worse.
Angels and Demons are factually not real. They do not exist within reality. This isn't an opinion this is a fact.
P.S. Theology is my second major.
Allah does not mean THEIR God. It means THE one true God. Something all Abrahamic religions agree on. It does not necessarily mean internal, but only Shiite muslims think that way, and they are generally the branch of Islam that has terrorist attacks. Over 90% OF Islam is Sunni. Those are the Muslims who think of Jihad in that way. You are falling in to the fundamental trap the media has set, painting all muslims in a bad light, and their culture as terrorism, when only a small percentage of them actually thing that way.
Angels and Demons aren't real? Try walking in to a church and telling someone that. If you think the Devil is not real, try walking in to a church and telling someone that.
I've explained my argument, backed it up factually, and haven't insulted you at all. You have insulted me twice, and not backed up your argument, except by saying Theology is your second major, which doesn't quite cut it when you don't have the resources to back it up. I do suggest we end the discussion, because it isn't going anywhere, and doesn't pertain to the original post. If you would like to understand more about muslim culture, and why it is not an afront to other religions, you can feel free to PM me and we can discuss this further, but please keep it out of the thread as it goes nowhere, and i feel you are showing a large amount of intolerance and ignorance to the Islamic faith. Something that bothers me, and i have over-explained myself on why and how with that matter, Thank you.
In regards to the OP however, i would suggest NOT showing those cards to your parents, as most religions tend to believe their's is the correct one, so those cards could seem sacrilegious to your parents.
I would also maybe suggest showing them certain cards that have quoted the Bible in their flavor text, or maybe avoiding those cards, depending on your parents. Maybe they would like that, or they may take that as sacrilegious as well.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Are you allowed to watch fantasy films? Read books with fantasy themes? You said you're allowed to play Yu-Gi-Oh, maybe just start with explaining that it's a game similar to Yu-Gi-Oh with just less cartoony fantasy themes. It's just fiction, a way of representing what is happening in-game.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Its just how I want to get my point across its not a ton but its enough infulence its easy to do and its kinda fun!
I was in High School at the time, and decided to go with the "what do I gain?" tactic. I explained that the game allows me to improve my critical decision making, mental math, and social skills at the same time, while still being a fun pastime. We agreed that so long as it didn't interfere with my schooling and with church, they were cool with it.
'course, my parents weren't nearly that strict... their idea of forbidding something was not supporting it financially. so long as I was paying for it myself, they were cool with it, cause, hey, my choice. lol.
"normality is a paved road: it is comfortable to walk, but no flowers grow there."
-Vincent Van Gogh
things I hate:
1. lists.
b. inconsistencies.
V. incorrect math.
2. quotes in signatures
III: irony.
there are two kinds of people in the world: those who can make reasonable conclusions based on conjecture.
[/quote]
I like how you brought up these two, but not Crusade.
In a symbolic meaning they're very real, and are often used to represent the bad traits of people. Some mental illnesses are considered to be influence of demons, for another example. Religions are filled with symbol systems such as these. In essence, demons and devils are just as real as Jihad is: Neither is a concrete thing, but they can manifest in something. Surely enough you could explain "Jihad" as a cultural/geopolitical conflict, just the same way as you can explain Demon-possession as Schizophrenia or Epileptic seizures. The things themselves are abstract concepts, they're not things-in-themselves.
I suppose the main difference is that we have a better understanding of physiology and biology than we do of social sciences, and as such we have scientific explanations for one, but not so much for the other.
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As for the OP: The powerpoint slide is actually a pretty good idea. It shows your parents you're taking this seriously, and that it means a lot for you.
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Also, as an ex-Christian raised by then/current-Christians, I'd advise against randomly telling your dad about the fact that there are "Gods" in the game.
Modern: U M'Olk; B Goodstuff