My son graduated a year and a half ago, and got a job directly out of college.
It was his "dream job", in software engineering.
He says he has a contract with his employer that turns over any invention, creation, or code that he should develop with no restraints.
I have not seen the contract, but he claims the term of the contract goes to perpetuity.
He says a couple of his fellow employees have had apps confiscated by the company, which the employees had created for their personal amusement.
Is such a contract enforceable by the employer and/or legal, especially if my son leaves their employment?
He is becoming more and more concerned about this, and he says it is burdening him constantly and stifling his creativity, because he can't shake the thought that everything he does is ultimately the property of his employer.
I've never heard of a contract assigning ownership of developed products in perpetuity like this. The only ones I've ever heard of were while the employee was active employed.
While actively employed by the company, it depends on the wording of the contract whether the company can enforce ownership of anything developed. If the contract is worded correctly, they probably can. The company is paying the employees for software development, so there is a quid pro quo.
If your son terminates his employment with this company, he will no longer receive any pay. Since there is no longer any quid pro quo, enforcing the contract will be very difficult. If your son has started working for a new company, it will be a legal fight between the two companies, and the old company will not likely win.
I doubt its as black and white as the company makes it out to seem. This clause is not uncommon and is designed to prevent employees using time at work and proprietary technology and resources to further their personal fortune. Your son needs to understand that his employer is paying him for his creativity and it's up to him to decide whether or not it can be bought and sold at their price.
I doubt its as black and white as the company makes it out to seem. This clause is not uncommon and is designed to prevent employees using time at work and proprietary technology and resources to further their personal fortune. Your son needs to understand that his employer is paying him for his creativity and it's up to him to decide whether or not it can be bought and sold at their price.
No. It's actually a common thing. In software jobs, having stuff you code belong to the company you work for. it can be bad or good depending on the company. I know some that get ideas and the company pays for patents for them. Others it just sucks.
This kind of thing is come common than you think. If you go to a hilton hotel, they used to have a thing (terms and agreements you all read) that say "if you use these computers, everything you do if property of us." or so.
The contract can't go into perpituity;
While he continues to work for the employer, it is common that all his work becomes property of the employer (in many industries, actually)
Once he quits, if the ex-employer were to demand ownershh of any newly developed software, any court would probably toss the claim. This sounds like some sort of twisted, over-broad noncompete.
Consider that the perpetuity refers to the employer's ownership of what he developed when working for them, not the ability to assert ownership over his later work.
(None of this is legal advice, btw
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This is commonplace in software development contracts.
First, SEEK LEGAL ADVICE. I am not a lawyer. I do not claim to be a lawyer. I am not responsible if things go wrong.
In general, these kinds of assignments of intellectual property have to be limited in time and industry; if you're doing games on the side while working on financial software, unless they can provide evidence that they're actively trying to jump into games, they can't own your stuff.
The state your son will work in matters a lot. If you're in California, the law says that they don't own anything he makes that isn't either related to or based on company business, no matter what the contract says, and insofar as the contract says otherwise it is illegal. You want to be in a blue state on this, though there's some level of protection pretty much anywhere.
They likely do own anything he makes while working there in perpetuity - if he makes something while working there and quits, they still own that something. I can't imagine that they own anything new that he makes, though - I think that would be tossed by any court.
Seek legal advice if you have questions. A message board is not legal advice and I - and everyone else here (if there is a lawyer reading, he won't be foolish enough to expose himself to a lawsuit by saying so, after all) - are not experts.
First, some background on me. I am currently employed as a software engineer and I have a background in creative fields that range from web development, app creation, video game design, to 3D development. I have been a working professional for roughly 13 years. Although I like to think I have a good deal of knowledge in this area, I am also NOT a lawyer, so please do not take my advice as legal counsel.
These intellectual property rights contracts are a common thing in this industry. They are also not new and often go hand-in-hand with non-compete agreements (employment contracts which stipulate that you will not work for a competitor within X [usually 4 or 5] years of leaving your employer).
In every state I have ever heard of, it is illegal for these contracts to exist in perpetuity. They can certainly exist for the period of employment, but even then, they are difficult to enforce. The non-compete agreements are also illegal in many states and for those that aren’t; businesses usually have a legal way of circumventing them (contract employment, job titles that obfuscate the nature of employment, etc.). If these contracts were eternally legally binding than no one would ever be able to change technology jobs and entire industries would die of brain-drain.
If your son is using company time or, even if he’s off the clock, using company resources (computers, software, email, professional resources, research) your son’s employer can lay claim to what your son produces. However, if your son uses his own time and resources, it would be extremely difficult for your son’s employer to lay claim to his intellectual property. That’s not to say an argument cannot be made, but your son can also refuse to hand over whatever it is he created. This may jeopardize his employment, and your son’s employer may pursue legal action against him.
Legal action is extremely uncommon unless your son’s employer determines that the potential revenue generated by obtaining the intellectual property rights to your son’s creation is worth more than the cost to pursue legal action. In which case, your son should have the financial resources to defend himself in court.
While your son is employed his biggest concern will be creating something on his own time that his company will want. They may threaten to fire him if he does not hand over whatever he makes. Your son should be prepared to walk away from his job to protect his ideas or hand over his ideas to protect his job. Regardless of which route he chooses, he should not talk about outside creative projects he is involved in while at work or via social networking. That is good advice for anyone whether they are working under an intellectual property contract or not.
Technology professionals should be extremely wary of companies with intellectual property contracts that seem exceptionally egregious. This is usually indicative of a company that treats its employees poorly, pays them poorly, or both. It is usually a way to scare inexperienced technology professionals away from leaving the company. I myself was once threatened by a CEO who asked me to sign a 5-year intellectual property rights contract before he had even hired me. He wanted to intimidate me into taking the job and not being able to leave. Needless to say, entering into a full-blown screaming match with the person giving you an interview is usually a strong indication that the position is not for you.
I don’t know your son’s work environment but often “dream jobs” can turn out to be nightmares. Often, young technology professionals have a bad habit of deceiving themselves into believing they have a good job (particularly in the video game and app creation industries) when, if they take a step back and objectively look at their environment and pay, they actually do not. I generally suggest to any technology professional, whether they’ve been working for 1 year or 30 years… if their company is pushing egregious intellectual property rights contracts upon its employees, that is usually a very strong sign that it is time to look for new employment.
Such contracts are pretty commonplace these days, I have seen it in almost all of my jobs as well. It is likely not enforceable if he leaves but likely enforceable while he's working there. Unfortunately these contracts are pretty standard..
As most have stated, these agreements are common in the Engineering trade. I can't imagine it actually extends in perpetuity, although the company will likely keep te rights to anything he does while he works there in perpetuity. It could just be a misunderstanding.
Having said that, contracts are negotiable. Just something to keep in mind if he decides move on to another company.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
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It was his "dream job", in software engineering.
He says he has a contract with his employer that turns over any invention, creation, or code that he should develop with no restraints.
I have not seen the contract, but he claims the term of the contract goes to perpetuity.
He says a couple of his fellow employees have had apps confiscated by the company, which the employees had created for their personal amusement.
Is such a contract enforceable by the employer and/or legal, especially if my son leaves their employment?
He is becoming more and more concerned about this, and he says it is burdening him constantly and stifling his creativity, because he can't shake the thought that everything he does is ultimately the property of his employer.
Thanks for your interest and your help.
J
While actively employed by the company, it depends on the wording of the contract whether the company can enforce ownership of anything developed. If the contract is worded correctly, they probably can. The company is paying the employees for software development, so there is a quid pro quo.
If your son terminates his employment with this company, he will no longer receive any pay. Since there is no longer any quid pro quo, enforcing the contract will be very difficult. If your son has started working for a new company, it will be a legal fight between the two companies, and the old company will not likely win.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=557874
No. It's actually a common thing. In software jobs, having stuff you code belong to the company you work for. it can be bad or good depending on the company. I know some that get ideas and the company pays for patents for them. Others it just sucks.
This kind of thing is come common than you think. If you go to a hilton hotel, they used to have a thing (terms and agreements you all read) that say "if you use these computers, everything you do if property of us." or so.
bleh.
While he continues to work for the employer, it is common that all his work becomes property of the employer (in many industries, actually)
Once he quits, if the ex-employer were to demand ownershh of any newly developed software, any court would probably toss the claim. This sounds like some sort of twisted, over-broad noncompete.
Consider that the perpetuity refers to the employer's ownership of what he developed when working for them, not the ability to assert ownership over his later work.
(None of this is legal advice, btw
G MGC
WB Teysa Tokens
BR Wortsnort
UG 23.5-No Edric
URG Noncombo Animar
GUB Damia Stax
WBR Alesha Hatebear Recursion
WBR Daddy Tariel
UBR [Je]love-a Your Deck
GWU Almost Critterless Enchantress
WUB Sydri+Artifacts=WUB
WURG Glint-Eye Combo
Have him read the contract again...
It's unlikely to be nearly as bad as he fears.
First, SEEK LEGAL ADVICE. I am not a lawyer. I do not claim to be a lawyer. I am not responsible if things go wrong.
In general, these kinds of assignments of intellectual property have to be limited in time and industry; if you're doing games on the side while working on financial software, unless they can provide evidence that they're actively trying to jump into games, they can't own your stuff.
The state your son will work in matters a lot. If you're in California, the law says that they don't own anything he makes that isn't either related to or based on company business, no matter what the contract says, and insofar as the contract says otherwise it is illegal. You want to be in a blue state on this, though there's some level of protection pretty much anywhere.
They likely do own anything he makes while working there in perpetuity - if he makes something while working there and quits, they still own that something. I can't imagine that they own anything new that he makes, though - I think that would be tossed by any court.
Seek legal advice if you have questions. A message board is not legal advice and I - and everyone else here (if there is a lawyer reading, he won't be foolish enough to expose himself to a lawsuit by saying so, after all) - are not experts.
These intellectual property rights contracts are a common thing in this industry. They are also not new and often go hand-in-hand with non-compete agreements (employment contracts which stipulate that you will not work for a competitor within X [usually 4 or 5] years of leaving your employer).
In every state I have ever heard of, it is illegal for these contracts to exist in perpetuity. They can certainly exist for the period of employment, but even then, they are difficult to enforce. The non-compete agreements are also illegal in many states and for those that aren’t; businesses usually have a legal way of circumventing them (contract employment, job titles that obfuscate the nature of employment, etc.). If these contracts were eternally legally binding than no one would ever be able to change technology jobs and entire industries would die of brain-drain.
If your son is using company time or, even if he’s off the clock, using company resources (computers, software, email, professional resources, research) your son’s employer can lay claim to what your son produces. However, if your son uses his own time and resources, it would be extremely difficult for your son’s employer to lay claim to his intellectual property. That’s not to say an argument cannot be made, but your son can also refuse to hand over whatever it is he created. This may jeopardize his employment, and your son’s employer may pursue legal action against him.
Legal action is extremely uncommon unless your son’s employer determines that the potential revenue generated by obtaining the intellectual property rights to your son’s creation is worth more than the cost to pursue legal action. In which case, your son should have the financial resources to defend himself in court.
While your son is employed his biggest concern will be creating something on his own time that his company will want. They may threaten to fire him if he does not hand over whatever he makes. Your son should be prepared to walk away from his job to protect his ideas or hand over his ideas to protect his job. Regardless of which route he chooses, he should not talk about outside creative projects he is involved in while at work or via social networking. That is good advice for anyone whether they are working under an intellectual property contract or not.
Technology professionals should be extremely wary of companies with intellectual property contracts that seem exceptionally egregious. This is usually indicative of a company that treats its employees poorly, pays them poorly, or both. It is usually a way to scare inexperienced technology professionals away from leaving the company. I myself was once threatened by a CEO who asked me to sign a 5-year intellectual property rights contract before he had even hired me. He wanted to intimidate me into taking the job and not being able to leave. Needless to say, entering into a full-blown screaming match with the person giving you an interview is usually a strong indication that the position is not for you.
I don’t know your son’s work environment but often “dream jobs” can turn out to be nightmares. Often, young technology professionals have a bad habit of deceiving themselves into believing they have a good job (particularly in the video game and app creation industries) when, if they take a step back and objectively look at their environment and pay, they actually do not. I generally suggest to any technology professional, whether they’ve been working for 1 year or 30 years… if their company is pushing egregious intellectual property rights contracts upon its employees, that is usually a very strong sign that it is time to look for new employment.
Having said that, contracts are negotiable. Just something to keep in mind if he decides move on to another company.