Why should people want to better themselves if they are comfortable where they are?
I have never had the ambition to be better, just comfortable. I have passed on higher paying jobs to spend more time with my children. I have down sized my home and uncluttered my life of material objects to be free to do as I wish.
I am not trying to be a smart ass. What is being talked about is all relative. What some see as durdling, others see as a life style.
sorry for the spelling mistakes. I cant seem to edit my post in this new interface. Im having some major compatibility issues.
But I wanted to clarify my point by introducing some potential "what makes you a durdler"?
Standard #1: You're a durdler if you're 40, still living with parents, no job,
Standard #2: You're a durdler if you're not self sufficient. (Magickwave's standard)
Standard #3: You're a durdler if you can't support a family with your income. (TomCat's standard)
Standard #4: You're a durdler if you can do better in life, but can't because of self-indulgence.
Standard #5: You're a durdler if you give up on your dreams without fighting hard for it.
Standard #6: You're a durdler if you ever give up on your dreams, period. Quitters never win.
Standard #7: You're a durdler if you're over 30 and unmarried.
sorry for the spelling mistakes. I cant seem to edit my post in this new interface. Im having some major compatibility issues.
But I wanted to clarify my point by introducing some potential "what makes you a durdler"?
Standard #1: You're a durdler if you're 40, still living with parents, no job,
Standard #2: You're a durdler if you're not self sufficient. (Magickwave's standard)
Standard #3: You're a durdler if you can't support a family with your income. (TomCat's standard)
Standard #4: You're a durdler if you can do better in life, but can't because of self-indulgence.
Standard #5: You're a durdler if you give up on your dreams without fighting hard for it.
Standard #6: You're a durdler if you ever give up on your dreams, period. Quitters never win.
Standard #7: You're a durdler if you're over 30 and unmarried.
Using those standards, I would say the vast majority of people are durdlers. Very few people achieve their dreams or those dreams change over time. People settle. People get tired of chasing something unattainable.
On the support your family, are you speaking a single income? or both spouses? Because there are a large number of families that 'need' both incomes of the parents to just get by.
The over 30 and unmarried made me laugh. I know many who fall into this one. They put their career ahead of family and got to a point they were comfortable and have no desire to change for someone now.
Tomcat- Hence the reason I specifically said "striving to be self-sufficient". That is VERY different from "being self-sufficient".
I fully realize that many people are not self-sufficient. Because, you're absolutely right. Nowadays 60k is not enough to support a family of four. Heck, it's not enough to support a family at all. Which is obviously why you have both parents working nowadays.
But as long as you're working to remedy that, then you're probably not a "durdler".
The definition of self-sufficiency is not subjective.
Here-
" able to live or function without help or support from others" That is from the online version of Merriam-Webster.
"Able to provide for oneself without the help of others; independent." This is from thefreedictionary.com
"able to supply one's own or its own needs without external assistance" And this is from dictionary.com.
Bocephus-
Why should people want to better themselves if they are comfortable where they are?
They don't need to if they don't want to.
Everything you did is perfectly fine.
But I fail to see how the definition of self-sufficient is relative.
For perfect and absolute clarity, my definition of a "durdler" is- Someone who is not actively striving to be self-sufficient. Conversely, Anyone who is ACTIVELY STRIVING to be self-sufficient, is not a "durdler".
Because what you might consider self sufficient, may or may not be what someone else considers self sufficient.
You saying $60k is needed to raise a family of 4 might be needed in your neck of the woods, but I know many getting by on half that. Its all about what one finds acceptable way of life, hence self sufficient is relative to what someone would consider an acceptable way of life.
Of course the numbers/details required to be self-sufficient is relative. I never argued against that point and never will.
You can most certainly get by with 60k if you live in a very cheap neighborhood, while 60k in NYC will get you nowhere.
But that doesn't change the fact that the definition of self-sufficient is not subjective.
Hence the reason I kept asking a question this entire thread-
Can you maintain your current standard of life even after your parents (or whoever is supporting you atm) is dead or otherwise incapable of supporting you?
You're arguing against something that I never even brought up. I am staying with the idea of maintaining your desired standard of life. However much money is required to maintain that is completely up to you. They are details that I am unconcerned with.
I don't know why you're so fixated on the details as if they matter more than the overall concept itself- that of being able to maintain whatever standard of living you desire on your own.
Why should people want to better themselves if they are comfortable where they are?
I have never had the ambition to be better, just comfortable. I have passed on higher paying jobs to spend more time with my children. I have down sized my home and uncluttered my life of material objects to be free to do as I wish.
I think part of the disconnect here is conflicting definitions of "better". Having a higher paying job doesn't make you "better", neither does having a bigger home or more material possessions.
What we're talking about is the basic drive to have *a* job (not necessarily the highest paying job possible), the desire to support yourself and/or your family, and the ambition to challenge yourself and make a positive contribution. There's nothing wrong with being a stay at home dad, for example, it's the motivation behind it and what you do with it.
But I wanted to clarify my point by introducing some potential "what makes you a durdler"?
Standard #1: You're a durdler if you're 40, still living with parents, no job,
Standard #2: You're a durdler if you're not self sufficient. (Magickwave's standard)
Standard #3: You're a durdler if you can't support a family with your income. (TomCat's standard)
Standard #4: You're a durdler if you can do better in life, but can't because of self-indulgence.
Standard #5: You're a durdler if you give up on your dreams without fighting hard for it.
Standard #6: You're a durdler if you ever give up on your dreams, period. Quitters never win.
Standard #7: You're a durdler if you're over 30 and unmarried.
I hope we can agree that some of these are just silly, #7 for example. The closest to what I'm talking about would be #4.
Okay, this has played out enough. Please take it to the main water cooler talk forum if you want to continue this discussion, rather than using up more space in the advice thread.
I had two durdler boyfriends and a drug addict durdler mom. That's the moment when to complain and cut people off, not while they exist outside of your support. In theory, they will always be dependent on the charity of others until they wisen up, but it's not your business until they try to mooch off of you.
So I know a couple of friends who seem to be durdling in life. They don't have serious work (not going to school either) but they make enough survival money to indulge on materialistic things and keep themselves happy. One of whom does nothing but play MTG, watch movies, and maybe other computer games. The other just buys things, plays computer games, and watches anime. No girlfriends, no wives, no kids. Their living housing is provided by family members. They both seem complacent. They've been doing this for years now. They are will into their 30's now. They have completely given up on anything adult like owning a house, marrying, etc. etc. I can't imagine they being 100% happy though as they see other friends advancing to the next chapter in their lives.
Keep in mind, I'm a friend, not a parent so I don't want to be badgering them. I also realize that people need to help themselves first before other people can help them (and they are not helping themselves). If they are happy, I'll just let them be. Being an adult comes with adult responsibilities. Who'd want that?!
Living with someone else is not for everyone. Hopefully that's fully agreeable.
More disturbing is the dependence on someone else, a money fountain that will dry up at some point, if it takes death to get there.
Another involved question is (hey, when isn't it involved) one of morality: Are these people really living the good life? I mean, for instance, Kant might say they aren't "developing their talents", which is one of their "imperfect duties". They also seem to live without any kind of spirituality, but I think it's jumping to conclusions to say there's something wrong with their materialistic life.
I am a subject of this conversation though, and I only have speculation as to why my family is different and never pressured me to provide a house for myself. I mean, I lived on the university campus for a while, but that ended. I want to point out though: I never wanted anything different than what I have. School was auto-pilot; the institution tells you the next thing to do, but "5 years from now" is never a question you're made to face. By the time I clearly conceived that question and its implications, I was already a dropout, and at no point did I actually have an ambition, or a desire to be independent. EDIT: otoh, I'm not 25 yet.
Now, facing the question of independence is simply a portal to despair and feelings of hopelessness. Living with that door open or closed is the same.
Perhaps you've made a few false assumptions about the durdlers you are talking about.
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Living with someone else is not for everyone. Hopefully that's fully agreeable.
More disturbing is the dependence on someone else, a money fountain that will dry up at some point, if it takes death to get there.
Another involved question is (hey, when isn't it involved) one of morality: Are these people really living the good life? I mean, for instance, Kant might say they aren't "developing their talents", which is one of their "imperfect duties". They also seem to live without any kind of spirituality, but I think it's jumping to conclusions to say there's something wrong with their materialistic life.
I am a subject of this conversation though, and I only have speculation as to why my family is different and never pressured me to provide a house for myself. I mean, I lived on the university campus for a while, but that ended. I want to point out though: I never wanted anything different than what I have. School was auto-pilot; the institution tells you the next thing to do, but "5 years from now" is never a question you're made to face. By the time I clearly conceived that question and its implications, I was already a dropout, and at no point did I actually have an ambition, or a desire to be independent. EDIT: otoh, I'm not 25 yet.
Now, facing the question of independence is simply a portal to despair and feelings of hopelessness. Living with that door open or closed is the same.
Perhaps you've made a few false assumptions about the durdlers you are talking about.
Wow, this thread got opened up again?
You mention feelings of despair and hopelessness. Isn't that motivation to go back to school? Or find a way to better yourself?
You mention feelings of despair and hopelessness. Isn't that motivation to go back to school? Or find a way to better yourself?
Different people go different routes. Where those feelings may motivate you, it may push others to more drastic, permanent solutions. Just because one person is effected one way doesnt mean everyone is effected the same way.
You mention feelings of despair and hopelessness. Isn't that motivation to go back to school? Or find a way to better yourself?
It's motivation to keep up my medications and sedatives. Keeping on topic with the thread, I have a changed view of any parent shoving a life plan, a trade, lessons, family business, or any other expectation down their child's throat. At least it's something.
I should have realized that I needed to aim for a career first, whatever my passions or interests. And I should have realized, given that my high school was ***** and I knew it, that even thinking about (student loans for) higher academia was ludicrous. If I could change one thing, it wouldn't be to go back and tell myself anything, it would be to tell the government not to loan me the money, because those As didn't mean anything.
I'm thousands of dollars in debt, and I have nothing more on my side to try school again than I did at the time. I envy the fellows the OP is talking about if they have school paid off (or didn't even bother). Nothing they teach you that a little time with the internet can't give you. That's my biggest regret. How did I ignore the idiocy of the cost/benefit ratio?
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I have never had the ambition to be better, just comfortable. I have passed on higher paying jobs to spend more time with my children. I have down sized my home and uncluttered my life of material objects to be free to do as I wish.
I am not trying to be a smart ass. What is being talked about is all relative. What some see as durdling, others see as a life style.
But I wanted to clarify my point by introducing some potential "what makes you a durdler"?
Standard #1: You're a durdler if you're 40, still living with parents, no job,
Standard #2: You're a durdler if you're not self sufficient. (Magickwave's standard)
Standard #3: You're a durdler if you can't support a family with your income. (TomCat's standard)
Standard #4: You're a durdler if you can do better in life, but can't because of self-indulgence.
Standard #5: You're a durdler if you give up on your dreams without fighting hard for it.
Standard #6: You're a durdler if you ever give up on your dreams, period. Quitters never win.
Standard #7: You're a durdler if you're over 30 and unmarried.
Using those standards, I would say the vast majority of people are durdlers. Very few people achieve their dreams or those dreams change over time. People settle. People get tired of chasing something unattainable.
On the support your family, are you speaking a single income? or both spouses? Because there are a large number of families that 'need' both incomes of the parents to just get by.
The over 30 and unmarried made me laugh. I know many who fall into this one. They put their career ahead of family and got to a point they were comfortable and have no desire to change for someone now.
I fully realize that many people are not self-sufficient. Because, you're absolutely right. Nowadays 60k is not enough to support a family of four. Heck, it's not enough to support a family at all. Which is obviously why you have both parents working nowadays.
But as long as you're working to remedy that, then you're probably not a "durdler".
The definition of self-sufficiency is not subjective.
Here-
" able to live or function without help or support from others" That is from the online version of Merriam-Webster.
"Able to provide for oneself without the help of others; independent." This is from thefreedictionary.com
"able to supply one's own or its own needs without external assistance" And this is from dictionary.com.
Bocephus-
They don't need to if they don't want to.
Everything you did is perfectly fine.
But I fail to see how the definition of self-sufficient is relative.
For perfect and absolute clarity, my definition of a "durdler" is- Someone who is not actively striving to be self-sufficient. Conversely, Anyone who is ACTIVELY STRIVING to be self-sufficient, is not a "durdler".
You saying $60k is needed to raise a family of 4 might be needed in your neck of the woods, but I know many getting by on half that. Its all about what one finds acceptable way of life, hence self sufficient is relative to what someone would consider an acceptable way of life.
Its all about where you come from.
Of course the numbers/details required to be self-sufficient is relative. I never argued against that point and never will.
You can most certainly get by with 60k if you live in a very cheap neighborhood, while 60k in NYC will get you nowhere.
But that doesn't change the fact that the definition of self-sufficient is not subjective.
Hence the reason I kept asking a question this entire thread-
Can you maintain your current standard of life even after your parents (or whoever is supporting you atm) is dead or otherwise incapable of supporting you?
You're arguing against something that I never even brought up. I am staying with the idea of maintaining your desired standard of life. However much money is required to maintain that is completely up to you. They are details that I am unconcerned with.
I don't know why you're so fixated on the details as if they matter more than the overall concept itself- that of being able to maintain whatever standard of living you desire on your own.
I think part of the disconnect here is conflicting definitions of "better". Having a higher paying job doesn't make you "better", neither does having a bigger home or more material possessions.
What we're talking about is the basic drive to have *a* job (not necessarily the highest paying job possible), the desire to support yourself and/or your family, and the ambition to challenge yourself and make a positive contribution. There's nothing wrong with being a stay at home dad, for example, it's the motivation behind it and what you do with it.
I hope we can agree that some of these are just silly, #7 for example. The closest to what I'm talking about would be #4.
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I had two durdler boyfriends and a drug addict durdler mom. That's the moment when to complain and cut people off, not while they exist outside of your support. In theory, they will always be dependent on the charity of others until they wisen up, but it's not your business until they try to mooch off of you.
Living with someone else is not for everyone. Hopefully that's fully agreeable.
More disturbing is the dependence on someone else, a money fountain that will dry up at some point, if it takes death to get there.
Another involved question is (hey, when isn't it involved) one of morality: Are these people really living the good life? I mean, for instance, Kant might say they aren't "developing their talents", which is one of their "imperfect duties". They also seem to live without any kind of spirituality, but I think it's jumping to conclusions to say there's something wrong with their materialistic life.
I am a subject of this conversation though, and I only have speculation as to why my family is different and never pressured me to provide a house for myself. I mean, I lived on the university campus for a while, but that ended. I want to point out though: I never wanted anything different than what I have. School was auto-pilot; the institution tells you the next thing to do, but "5 years from now" is never a question you're made to face. By the time I clearly conceived that question and its implications, I was already a dropout, and at no point did I actually have an ambition, or a desire to be independent. EDIT: otoh, I'm not 25 yet.
Now, facing the question of independence is simply a portal to despair and feelings of hopelessness. Living with that door open or closed is the same.
Perhaps you've made a few false assumptions about the durdlers you are talking about.
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
Wow, this thread got opened up again?
You mention feelings of despair and hopelessness. Isn't that motivation to go back to school? Or find a way to better yourself?
Different people go different routes. Where those feelings may motivate you, it may push others to more drastic, permanent solutions. Just because one person is effected one way doesnt mean everyone is effected the same way.
It's motivation to keep up my medications and sedatives. Keeping on topic with the thread, I have a changed view of any parent shoving a life plan, a trade, lessons, family business, or any other expectation down their child's throat. At least it's something.
I should have realized that I needed to aim for a career first, whatever my passions or interests. And I should have realized, given that my high school was ***** and I knew it, that even thinking about (student loans for) higher academia was ludicrous. If I could change one thing, it wouldn't be to go back and tell myself anything, it would be to tell the government not to loan me the money, because those As didn't mean anything.
I'm thousands of dollars in debt, and I have nothing more on my side to try school again than I did at the time. I envy the fellows the OP is talking about if they have school paid off (or didn't even bother). Nothing they teach you that a little time with the internet can't give you. That's my biggest regret. How did I ignore the idiocy of the cost/benefit ratio?
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].