Always look for opportunities. "You always get rejected." Towards "How'd you find a wife like her?" That transition takes a lot of time. Relationships are hard man, but getting that first date is easy.
Of course my favorite was at one work when I was young and a good young woman just broke up with her boyfriend, "Every guy has asked me out except for you, why?"
"Well none of the other guys never asked me out, nor yourself."
"You want to go out for drinks?"
"Sure, if you want to meet my fiancee.'"
"Hell why not, I'm ****ing bored."
"She's nice, you two have a lot in common. Let me call her, let you know later."
Just sort of sold it as, "she's bored, just broke up with someone, and wanted to get out for a bit on the town and she's new in the area and doesn't know a whole lot of people."
Was sort of weird, my ex-fiancee, broke up because of different career tracks, and both women ended up becoming very good friends. So some good came out of that lark. It's weird things like that you can turn towards advantages.
Coming back this thread - what are good choices for somewhere to ask her to? I have no car so I can't really get anywhere that's not walking. I've only lived here for a month so I don't really know what there is in the area. I've also never been on a date, so I don't even know what I'm looking for...
Coming back this thread - what are good choices for somewhere to ask her to? I have no car so I can't really get anywhere that's not walking. I've only lived here for a month so I don't really know what there is in the area. I've also never been on a date, so I don't even know what I'm looking for...
Find a place that seems fun. Vague, but honestly, just look around. What would you like to do? Carnival? Fair? Concert? Movie theater may be a bit lame, because you don't really get to talk to them, but that could work.
Or take them to dinner or coffee. Or just take them for a stroll through the city or wherever. Do you know anything about them?
Reprints the one card that people point to when saying that art objectifies women.
Well done Wizards.
Liliana does not objectify women in any way at all. We have gotten to a point in our society that every single picture of a women must be objectifying a women in some negative way......blah blah blah.. That is not the case. (((Sarcasm)))Picture of a girl drinking a milk shake, must be sex related and putting women down, picture of girl sitting on a beach, picture of a girl driving a car, picture of a girl on the moon at a new space station.)))
You have a picture of an attractive strong power women who girls dress up as for anime conventions. What more do you want? The picture is fine, happy to see a reprint. Sick of of seeing people claim that everything in existence must be putting women down. Then all I have to do is replace the word "women" with anything else to get the same mentality; fish, cats, arabs, blacks, jews, men, environment, whites, chinese, old people, etc. It doesn't matter what word I put in. Stop sucking life out of everything man. That artwork of her is awesome. Stop putting stuff down man. Just stop. If the picture was really as negative as you claim she would totally nude, in a kitchen, making sandwiches and giving blow jobs. Her abilities would be horrible as well. +1 do nothing -2 do nothing -6 do nothing. Instead liliana of the veil is an amazing planeswalker comparable to jace, the mind sculpter with great art to appreciate.
My suggestion listen to some comedy radio for a while, pandora is free, youtube is free there is something out there for you. ***** go make fun of somebody. The whole world is so serious and campaigning for some cause, or someones rights, everything is a hate crime, racist, sexist. blah blah blah.
"O no mcdonalds must be slandering a hate crime against skinny people every time they make a big mac." hahaha jeeze You're just someone perpetuating another groups negative perspective that they've made you believe is correct. Look at the picture for a hour and tell me what's wrong with it? I don't see anything.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
Coming back this thread - what are good choices for somewhere to ask her to? I have no car so I can't really get anywhere that's not walking. I've only lived here for a month so I don't really know what there is in the area. I've also never been on a date, so I don't even know what I'm looking for...
To start with something small and unassuming. Somewhere not fast food where you can get something to eat or tea or something - somewhere you can chat.
I'd also look into what events go on at your college. Mine used to run movie nights in one of the lecture halls. But other things may be interesting, too.
Finding somewhere scenic to go and just talk is nice too - whether it's a nearby lake or park or something. The bonus is that this is also free.
that's why all ''good'' guys are stuck in the ''friendzone''. They are fakers.
You know, that quote bothered me each time I read this thread, but it wasn't until tonight that I put together a decent, albeit anecdotal, counterargument.
My last relationship lasted four months. Over the course of those four months, I was wonderful to my (now) ex. Some of the highlights include:
*My bringing her soup, OTC meds and Gatorade on multiple occasions when she was sick, as well as keeping her company for as long as I could before I had to go to work/class.
* Surprising her with flowers for no particular reason on a few occasions.
*Generally being there for her any time she needed, such as when her cousin miscarried.
Your logical next question, of course, would be "Ok Oni, if you're such a great guy, why is she your ex?" I adored this girl. She broke up with me for a combination of the following reasons, as per her report:
* I treated her better than she treated me, and she felt guilty about that.
* She was concerned that, during my impending military service I would do horrible things on orders from my superiors.
* She loved me and considered me to be one of the most important people in her life, but was not "in love" with me (I'm pretty sure that is the definition of the "friendzone").
* She no longer felt physically attracted to me.
*On a note related to point two, she felt that since I was shipping out soon (turns out not as soon as she thought), it wasn't worth trying to fix things.
Now, the only other counterargument I can think of you making is an attack on my character outside of my relationship. After all, maybe I'm not such a great guy when there's no benefit to me. Some counterpoints to that:
* In 2009 my graduate program required me to do volunteer work for my first year in the program. I began volunteering at a local suicide hotline in the spring of 2010. I am still there, despite the volunteer requirement not existing since the end of the 2009-2010 school year.
*For the past four years I have worked in the field of developmental disabilities. Anyone who has ever worked with this population knows the ways it challenges and drains you, but, in case you aren't familiar, over the past four years I have been screamed at, spit at, scratched, punched and kicked in the head by clients who have no idea how much I do for them every time I walk in the door to my job. Yet, I still put a smile on my face for my clients every time I walk in the door, and my higher-functioning clients never cease to tell me how happy they are to see me when I'm on shift.
In conclusion, feel free to make sweeping generalizations, but for every guy who pretends to be nice to manipulate a girl (and trust me, I know more than my fair share) there are genuinely nice guys who have been overlooked and/or disregarded. If you are interested in learning more about why the statement you made is fallacy, I recommend you read up on the fundamental attribution error.
/endthreadjackandorrant
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So I asked this girl to dinner on Friday. Go me? Still lost, but a little less so. I didn't really bring any clothes beyond jeans, t-shirts, and sweatshirts, and I feel like that's not the right thing to wear... but I don't know what else or where to get it. Also have no idea what I'm supposed to do after dinner either. Meh.
So I asked this girl to dinner on Friday. Go me? Still lost, but a little less so. I didn't really bring any clothes beyond jeans, t-shirts, and sweatshirts, and I feel like that's not the right thing to wear... but I don't know what else or where to get it. Also have no idea what I'm supposed to do after dinner either. Meh.
Can't really suggest what to wear without knowing where you're going to eat, but I would imagine that most women want a man who:
1) has good hygeine (brush your teeth, take a shower, wear deodorant, etc)
2) doesn't have a sloppy appearance (try to wear clothing that's comfortable but stylish and doesn't wrinkle, bloat, etc)
3) keeps a positive/sunny disposition (laugh, smile, be personable, etc)
Jeans are fine to go out in, but sweaters and t-shirts? Might be a little too casual. Maybe buy a long-sleeved button down with a dark color (black, dark grey, midnight blue)? Do some research on what the Fall trends are. A couple of sites you can try are Lord and Taylor, Macy's, GQ, and Esquire. Also Google "Men's Fall fashion 2013" for ideas too.
After dinner ideas:
-Movie theatre
-Walk around the park/mall/public area of interest
-Bar/lounge
-Ask her if (s)he has anything in mind -- DON'T MAKE IT SOUND SEXUAL, JUST BE COURTEOUS!
I'm sure you'll do fine on your date. Just relax, be you, and don't worry so much!
So I asked this girl to dinner on Friday. Go me? Still lost, but a little less so. I didn't really bring any clothes beyond jeans, t-shirts, and sweatshirts, and I feel like that's not the right thing to wear... but I don't know what else or where to get it. Also have no idea what I'm supposed to do after dinner either. Meh.
So she said yes? Then you are pretty much golden.
Maybe buy a polo shirt?
And just pick a restaurant you can afford, that isn't fast food.
I think you're placing too much importance on this first date, it's your personality that will determine whether or not there is a second. Just be yourself, unless you are a jerk. Good luck!
Edit: If you want help talking to her, just ask her questions about her life, and follow-up on interesting things (if she mentions she like X, as her about X, what she likes about it, how she started liking it). All you have to do is be mildly interesting while not hogging the conversation or being annoying. If you two hit it off, you won't feel like you have to make conversation, you'll just have a nice time.
First of all, sorry to hear about what happened with your ex. Secondly, I completely agree with that final statement. I consider myself a genuinely good person; I love doing things for others. And that's OK, it's who I am. How many relationships have I had? Wouldn't be able to tell you, I've had so many. And I'm only 23. How many times have I been friendzoned? ONCE (hey, no one's perfect). It never happened again.
The most important thing (and this may sound clichéd): Be WHO YOU ARE. If you're genuinely nice, stay that way. There's no reason to change, much less for someone else. A girl friendzones you for it? She can go to hell. She's not worth it, no one's worth changing for. People evolve, they never change. Evolve and adapt if you feel you're not happy with how it's going with the ladies, and more importantly, with your life.
May I also add that there is a difference between being a good man and being "nice". "Nice" boys are nice just so they can get laid. "Good" men are good because they want to be and it's in their nature; it's at the very core of who they are, regardless of whether they get laid as a consequence or not. Don't ride a girl's dick and take **** from her just to be with her. Ever. But be good to people who deserve it, be just. Be the best version of yourself you can. And women will love you for it.
I find this part of the thread interesting and wanted to chime in here based on my own experiences...
I was definitely a guy that was relegated to the "friendzone" for most of my highschool years. It was only during my first year at college that I discovered a secret that worked for me in future relationships. That secret? You have to inject a little bit of being an a-hole/indifferent in your relationships where you are looking to move forward with a girl.
Now, I admit that, at first glance this seems contradictory but I came to this concept when I asked myself a simple question - "Why do guys that I think are a-holes have no trouble getting girls?" The realization came to me is that girls inherently need a little bit of a challenge in order to "tame" a guy or "convince" him that she's the one. They are not interested in guys who present no challenge - i.e. "too nice", "too good to me", "really nice guy... as a friend". Quotes that I had heard personally.
I decided to put this realization to the test. Despite the fact that being indifferent and an a-hole was not my normal operating mode, I would try to inject a little bit of it in my interactions with girls (both ones I was interested in and ones I was not) to see the effect. I recall it being immediate. It seemed to me that, compared to previous, I became irresistable to them. I was able to keep girls in relationships for longer (until I determined they weren't a good fit for me) and also had girls finding ways to actually ask me out.
To provide some context on where I am today, in a couple of weeks I'll have been happily married for 15 years and, yes, the same principle still holds.
tl;dr version - Make sure to inject some indifference/a-hole behaviour into your relationships with girls. Being visibly "all-in" and completely nice will turn them off and torpedo your chances of either starting or maintaining a relationship.
2) doesn't have a sloppy appearance (try to wear clothing that's comfortable but stylish and doesn't wrinkle, bloat, etc)
I was a little late to really appreciate this one, but SHOES are huge. When I was younger I wore one pair everywhere until they wore out. From a pragmatic point of view that's fine, but now I know that a pair of good looking shoes chosen with intent are a deal breaker. When I am out in pubic I make snap calls about people and what I began to see was that the people I wrote off as anti-social losers (or whatever nicer term you want to use) all had shoes that looked like they were worn only because they were comfortable. People who looked in control had shoes that complemented their outfit and posture - even if the looked sloppy and unkempt if the shoes were right they looked like urban hipsters. If they wore worn out white Reeboks with uneven soles I got the "hopeless" vibe.
I was a little late to really appreciate this one, but SHOES are huge. When I was younger I wore one pair everywhere until they wore out. From a pragmatic point of view that's fine, but now I know that a pair of good looking shoes chosen with intent are a deal breaker. When I am out in pubic I make snap calls about people and what I began to see was that the people I wrote off as anti-social losers (or whatever nicer term you want to use) all had shoes that looked like they were worn only because they were comfortable. People who looked in control had shoes that complemented their outfit and posture - even if the looked sloppy and unkempt if the shoes were right they looked like urban hipsters. If they wore worn out white Reeboks with uneven soles I got the "hopeless" vibe.
Shoes are important. Anytime I see my date wear something out of a dollar bin, B-horror movie, or porn flick I wretch a little inside.
I'm not saying you have to look like the centerfold for a Gucci ad, but you do want to at least look like you put effort into dressing nice. First impressions are important and whenever I go out on a date I always put my best foot forward when it comes to clothes and attitude. Sometimes my dates dress nice and put the same amount of effort into preparing. Sometimes I've had dates where they dress like they just go out of a spin class at the gym. I had one date where she dressed in a short pink skirt and a leopard-stripped top (needless to say I was a little embarassed but remained polite and acted like a gentleman throughout the date).
In sum, just dress nice. It doesn't have to be expensive, name brand, or exotic. Just. Dress. Nice.
Big no-no's for what you wear:
+Anything with wrinkles, tears, cuts, holes, or looks like it's worn out.
+Graphic t-shirts. Unless if you're both going super casual or have already dated a few times I would ditch the video game tees.
+Shorts
+Sneakers. Get regular shoes or shoes that match what you wear (see Galspanic's post.)
+Sweaters. This is more of a personal caveat for me. Sweaters are acceptable for dates in general, but I prefer bringing an overcoat or a jacket with me so you can be a BAWSS and offer your coat to your date when you walk outside and it gets chilly. It's polite, it's romantic, and it gives you mucho brownie points. Works every time!
Big yes-yes' for what you wear:
+Clothes with a fresh appearance. Don't pull out some 10-year old outfit and expect it to be fine when it goes through the washer. Go out, buy something fashionable yet simple, and dress to impress. Bonus points if they complement your figure by slenderizing or don't overexaggerate your chub (if you have any).
+Dark colors. Not talking all out Gothic appearance, just darker colors to hide any "unwanted" features. As a big guy I tend to go with darker colors so my fluff doesn't become as noticable. An example of what I wear would be a black polo shirt, dark washed jeans, and charcoal black Timberland boots with a belt that assimilates to the appearance.
+Cologne. This is pretty big. Some women like the natural scent of a man, but there's always that hidden aroma that capitvates a woman's senses like a fish on a hook. I suggest trying out some cologne samples at your local retailer to see what you like. My personal favorite is Dolce and Gabbana. It's subtle yet has a sweet enough scent that lingers throughout the night. Spray once after you shower and before you dress. Your natural body heat will let the smell exfoliate from your pores and make you smell irresistible.
+Coat. Depending on where you live a coat may be the perfect opportunity for you to display a huge heaping of chivalry (see above). A fall jacket or blazer works fine depending on what you want to wear.
+Umbrella (optional). Research ahead of time if you know the weather is going to be rainy. A good date is always prepared and it also impresses your date by showing consideration for planning ahead.
Just my two cents on what to do. Don't let all of this overwhelm you -- it's a lot less than you think.
tl;dr version - Make sure to inject some indifference/a-hole behaviour into your relationships with girls. Being visibly "all-in" and completely nice will turn them off and torpedo your chances of either starting or maintaining a relationship.
I'm going to caution you against expressing this level of borderline dating advice again. Women aren't drones attracted to a certain set of rules. You should take a hard look at these beliefs and examine some of your conclusions. I outline the three biggest mistakes below:
1) There is no friend zone. There are only guys who don't have the confidence to ever act on their feelings and/or expect friendship to turn in to something more simply because they're a good friend, combined with unrealistic expectations of who they want to date. It's a bad mentality, and it sets you up for failure - if a girl isn't interested in you, move on. The only person who can 'friend zone' you is you, and it's a way of escaping culpability for failing to move on or pining after women who clearly aren't interested in you romantically.
2) Acting like an ******* isn't a prerequisite, and I'm honestly really surprised if you have been married for 15 years that you still think that is case. Most nerdy guys who don't understand why jerks 'get' girls (as if they were a prize to be won...) because they don't understand that confidence is one of the most attractive qualities you can you have. Jerks generally have confidence, but you don't have to be an ass to be confident.
3) Women don't follow a set standard of rules. Emotionally damaged women may want a 'project' or expect that they can 'fix' a guy (my buddy just broke up with one of those types), but it isn't anywhere near being a rule. Pop culture has some silly expectations for a relationship, and some people may truly believe those things, but they aren't the kind of people you want to be dating. A level-headed woman, the kind you'd want to be your partner for life, won't give a damn about any of that, and your advice would in fact scare away a level-headed person. Imagine if you were on a date and the woman stopped paying attention, ignored you, was mean to your waiter, etc. She wouldn't be the kind of person you'd want to keep going out with, would she?
I used to think like that and became a huge ******* my senior year of high school and though it made me 'cool'. And while I was more 'popular' (in the fact that more people noticed me and talked to me), it actually hurt my long-term chances with the girls I dated, and I frequently found myself with people I wouldn't want to be with long term.
The real key isn't to interject indifference or ******* behavior. It's simply to act confident and sure of yourself. Even if you don't feel it, practice acting confident, and eventually it won't be an act anymore. When I dialed back the ******* and simply acted like the nerdy guy I was - but with confidence - I was hugely successful in making real friends and in attracting women I wanted to date (including my wife). I know a lot of nerdy guys see jerks with women and think 'It must be because he's a jerk', but what they're missing is that they lack confidence and jerks don't. Heck, half the guys I thought were jerks in high school, because they were popular or on a sport team and I applied my own preconceptions on to them actually turned out to be pretty good guys when I actually got to know them.
The other part of your conclusion - acting indifferent - isn't precisely true either. It's true that you should never allow your entire life to revolve around another person - but it's ludicrous to think that not being nice the whole time will torpedo your chances. Simply be an equal participant in the conversation, or at least be attentive the whole time, and you'll do fine.
In sum, just dress nice. It doesn't have to be expensive, name brand, or exotic. Just. Dress. Nice.
A nice polo, nice (not faded) jeans and a decent shoes will do you fine as 'dressed nicely', especially for a first date in college.
My only addition to this would be use cologne as sparingly as possible. Axe body spray is also not cologne, and most women I know find it repulsive. One small spray to your chest is more than enough.
My only addition to this would be use cologne as sparingly as possible. Axe body spray is also not cologne, and most women I know find it repulsive. One small spray to your chest is more than enough.
I agree with the AXE body spray. I consider AXE more to be a poor smelling masking agent rather than a refined cologne. Go to your local retailer, like Macy's or something equivalent, and shop around for a cologne. You don't want anything too heavy or potent.
The brand I suggested, and I will continue to suggest till the end of time, is 'Dolce and Gabbana the one for men'. It's sweet, sugary, subtle, and doesn't overwhelm the senses. One spray either on the chest or around the neck should suffice. When you spray keep a distance of a foot from your body. This will provide an even spread and not concentrate on a singular location.
I agree with the AXE body spray. I consider AXE more to be a poor smelling masking agent rather than a refined cologne. Go to your local retailer, like Macy's or something equivalent, and shop around for a cologne. You don't want anything too heavy or potent.
The brand I suggested, and I will continue to suggest till the end of time, is 'Dolce and Gabbana the one for men'. It's sweet, sugary, subtle, and doesn't overwhelm the senses. One spray either on the chest or around the neck should suffice. When you spray keep a distance of a foot from your body. This will provide an even spread and not concentrate on a singular location.
I use a spray from Bath & Body Works my sister bought me years ago (I've yet to run out of my supply). It's a bit of an outdoorsy smell (I don't remember the name, but it's blue), and my wife likes it a lot. But I'm also not the kind of guy who can make regular colognes work for me, either.
That secret? You have to inject a little bit of being an a-hole/indifferent in your relationships where you are looking to move forward with a girl.
You sound like youve only reached the 2nd phase of understanding girls.
The 1st phase is "Hurrrp Duuurp Girls want to be worshipped by a guy!" Yes girls like this but this isnt what they want from a boyfreind. This is a ticket to getting freindzoned.
The 2nd phase is "Hmmmm, jerks get girls but not me when I worship them. Girls must like jerks because [insert reason why girls might like jerks]". This has works better then worshipping girls so some might think this is the answer. This can even work long term sometimes.
The 3rd phase is "Wait why would girls like jerks, that doesn't make sense. Oh, girls like confident guys and the jerks are just usually very (over?)confident! So i can get girls without being a jerk as long as I'm confident!" This seems to work good.
I don't know what the 4th phase is because I'm on the 3rd phase. What's the next phase?
I'm going to caution you against expressing this level of borderline dating advice again. Women aren't drones attracted to a certain set of rules. You should take a hard look at these beliefs and examine some of your conclusions. I outline the three biggest mistakes below:
1) There is no friend zone. There are only guys who don't have the confidence to ever act on their feelings and/or expect friendship to turn in to something more simply because they're a good friend, combined with unrealistic expectations of who they want to date. It's a bad mentality, and it sets you up for failure - if a girl isn't interested in you, move on. The only person who can 'friend zone' you is you, and it's a way of escaping culpability for failing to move on or pining after women who clearly aren't interested in you romantically.
2) Acting like an ******* isn't a prerequisite, and I'm honestly really surprised if you have been married for 15 years that you still think that is case. Most nerdy guys who don't understand why jerks 'get' girls (as if they were a prize to be won...) because they don't understand that confidence is one of the most attractive qualities you can you have. Jerks generally have confidence, but you don't have to be an ass to be confident.
3) Women don't follow a set standard of rules. Emotionally damaged women may want a 'project' or expect that they can 'fix' a guy (my buddy just broke up with one of those types), but it isn't anywhere near being a rule. Pop culture has some silly expectations for a relationship, and some people may truly believe those things, but they aren't the kind of people you want to be dating. A level-headed woman, the kind you'd want to be your partner for life, won't give a damn about any of that, and your advice would in fact scare away a level-headed person. Imagine if you were on a date and the woman stopped paying attention, ignored you, was mean to your waiter, etc. She wouldn't be the kind of person you'd want to keep going out with, would she?
I used to think like that and became a huge ******* my senior year of high school and though it made me 'cool'. And while I was more 'popular' (in the fact that more people noticed me and talked to me), it actually hurt my long-term chances with the girls I dated, and I frequently found myself with people I wouldn't want to be with long term.
The real key isn't to interject indifference or ******* behavior. It's simply to act confident and sure of yourself. Even if you don't feel it, practice acting confident, and eventually it won't be an act anymore. When I dialed back the ******* and simply acted like the nerdy guy I was - but with confidence - I was hugely successful in making real friends and in attracting women I wanted to date (including my wife). I know a lot of nerdy guys see jerks with women and think 'It must be because he's a jerk', but what they're missing is that they lack confidence and jerks don't. Heck, half the guys I thought were jerks in high school, because they were popular or on a sport team and I applied my own preconceptions on to them actually turned out to be pretty good guys when I actually got to know them.
The other part of your conclusion - acting indifferent - isn't precisely true either. It's true that you should never allow your entire life to revolve around another person - but it's ludicrous to think that not being nice the whole time will torpedo your chances. Simply be an equal participant in the conversation, or at least be attentive the whole time, and you'll do fine.
A nice polo, nice (not faded) jeans and a decent shoes will do you fine as 'dressed nicely', especially for a first date in college.
My only addition to this would be use cologne as sparingly as possible. Axe body spray is also not cologne, and most women I know find it repulsive. One small spray to your chest is more than enough.
It appears I was mostly misunderstood. Apologies for that, i'll explain myself better when i'm able to get to a proper keyboard.
To me it seems that we agree for the most part, it's just that our context is completely different. I'll describe later.
I met this girl back when we were young, about 8. For those of you who don't know me, I've always been the somber, quiet, mature type. She fell perfectly into my definition of a perfect girl, hell, even a perfect person. Good looking, nice personality, sense of humor, can cook, somewhat nerdy, but not nearly as otaku as me. We quickly became friends, and I can honestly say that when I had a huge relapse of my depression issues, she saved my life. And despite not believing in that Love at first sight BS, I loved her since we first met. I never told her how deeply I felt until recently, and I was shot down rather hard. She had started relying on me like an older brother, and she didn't want to take the next step. She said "We're really close, and still will be. You're the kind of guy I wouldn't want to date, but would love to marry." Translation, I'm too close to her for us to work out. I waited too long and was too nice. I'm doing my best to cope, but there will always be a section of my heart dedicated to her
TL;DR Make a move. Waiting forever will screw you in the ass like a drunken bisexual BDSM master
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"I am disillusioned enough to know that no man's opinion on any subject is worth a damn unless backed up with enough genuine information to make him really know what he's talking about."
-H. P. Lovecraft
I met this girl back when we were young, about 8. For those of you who don't know me, I've always been the somber, quiet, mature type. She fell perfectly into my definition of a perfect girl, hell, even a perfect person. Good looking, nice personality, sense of humor, can cook, somewhat nerdy, but not nearly as otaku as me. We quickly became friends, and I can honestly say that when I had a huge relapse of my depression issues, she saved my life. And despite not believing in that Love at first sight BS, I loved her since we first met. I never told her how deeply I felt until recently, and I was shot down rather hard. She had started relying on me like an older brother, and she didn't want to take the next step. She said "We're really close, and still will be. You're the kind of guy I wouldn't want to date, but would love to marry." Translation, I'm too close to her for us to work out. I waited too long and was too nice. I'm doing my best to cope, but there will always be a section of my heart dedicated to her
I think you learned the wrong lesson from this. You didn't 'wait too long'. If you're the kind of guy she'd want to marry - why isn't she interested? Dating generally leads to marriage for a couple that is happy together. Which leads me to believe that the reason she told you isn't the real reason. Your profile says you are still a student, and she may also not want to risk your friendship over something that, statistically speaking, probably won't work out.
It's also quite possible that she was trying to save your feelings. The big red flags on this were 'depression issues' and her 'saving your life'. I've had very close female friends like you describe, and one of the things I didn't realize at the time is that they were simply into a different (and more confident) kind of guy. If she knows you pretty well, she may love you as an 'older brother', but you very well may simply not be her type. I think this is far more likely, and it's no one's fault.
I think the bottom line here is people just need to understand that effort=/=results when it comes to a relationship.
My co-worker... She is gorgeous I can't even stand it. Her eyes glisten like the deep sea, but she has what seems to be a promise ring. Her smile just melts my heart. What do you guys (other magic players in general) do to get your mind off of someone who truly captivates you? She's obviously just being nice to me, but its hard to concentrate. I know I'm just ranting, but I seriously need help to get her out of my mind.
My co-worker... She is gorgeous I can't even stand it. Her eyes glisten like the deep sea, but she has what seems to be a promise ring. Her smile just melts my heart. What do you guys (other magic players in general) do to get your mind off of someone who truly captivates you? She's obviously just being nice to me, but its hard to concentrate. I know I'm just ranting, but I seriously need help to get her out of my mind.
Ask her out on a date. She'll probably reject you and explain the promise ring. Then you can just move on.
Private Mod Note
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
"You want to go out on a date?"
"No I have a boy friend."
"Okay, thanks for your time."
*smile*
*self* "Time to ask that cute X at/in Y."
Always look for opportunities. "You always get rejected." Towards "How'd you find a wife like her?" That transition takes a lot of time. Relationships are hard man, but getting that first date is easy.
Of course my favorite was at one work when I was young and a good young woman just broke up with her boyfriend, "Every guy has asked me out except for you, why?"
"Well none of the other guys never asked me out, nor yourself."
"You want to go out for drinks?"
"Sure, if you want to meet my fiancee.'"
"Hell why not, I'm ****ing bored."
"She's nice, you two have a lot in common. Let me call her, let you know later."
Just sort of sold it as, "she's bored, just broke up with someone, and wanted to get out for a bit on the town and she's new in the area and doesn't know a whole lot of people."
Was sort of weird, my ex-fiancee, broke up because of different career tracks, and both women ended up becoming very good friends. So some good came out of that lark. It's weird things like that you can turn towards advantages.
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
Find a place that seems fun. Vague, but honestly, just look around. What would you like to do? Carnival? Fair? Concert? Movie theater may be a bit lame, because you don't really get to talk to them, but that could work.
Or take them to dinner or coffee. Or just take them for a stroll through the city or wherever. Do you know anything about them?
To start with something small and unassuming. Somewhere not fast food where you can get something to eat or tea or something - somewhere you can chat.
I'd also look into what events go on at your college. Mine used to run movie nights in one of the lecture halls. But other things may be interesting, too.
Finding somewhere scenic to go and just talk is nice too - whether it's a nearby lake or park or something. The bonus is that this is also free.
There are tons of online lists, but this one covers just about anything I could think of: http://emmalinebride.com/planning/50-best-cheap-date-ideas/
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
You know, that quote bothered me each time I read this thread, but it wasn't until tonight that I put together a decent, albeit anecdotal, counterargument.
My last relationship lasted four months. Over the course of those four months, I was wonderful to my (now) ex. Some of the highlights include:
*My bringing her soup, OTC meds and Gatorade on multiple occasions when she was sick, as well as keeping her company for as long as I could before I had to go to work/class.
* Surprising her with flowers for no particular reason on a few occasions.
*Generally being there for her any time she needed, such as when her cousin miscarried.
Your logical next question, of course, would be "Ok Oni, if you're such a great guy, why is she your ex?" I adored this girl. She broke up with me for a combination of the following reasons, as per her report:
* I treated her better than she treated me, and she felt guilty about that.
* She was concerned that, during my impending military service I would do horrible things on orders from my superiors.
* She loved me and considered me to be one of the most important people in her life, but was not "in love" with me (I'm pretty sure that is the definition of the "friendzone").
* She no longer felt physically attracted to me.
*On a note related to point two, she felt that since I was shipping out soon (turns out not as soon as she thought), it wasn't worth trying to fix things.
Now, the only other counterargument I can think of you making is an attack on my character outside of my relationship. After all, maybe I'm not such a great guy when there's no benefit to me. Some counterpoints to that:
* In 2009 my graduate program required me to do volunteer work for my first year in the program. I began volunteering at a local suicide hotline in the spring of 2010. I am still there, despite the volunteer requirement not existing since the end of the 2009-2010 school year.
*For the past four years I have worked in the field of developmental disabilities. Anyone who has ever worked with this population knows the ways it challenges and drains you, but, in case you aren't familiar, over the past four years I have been screamed at, spit at, scratched, punched and kicked in the head by clients who have no idea how much I do for them every time I walk in the door to my job. Yet, I still put a smile on my face for my clients every time I walk in the door, and my higher-functioning clients never cease to tell me how happy they are to see me when I'm on shift.
In conclusion, feel free to make sweeping generalizations, but for every guy who pretends to be nice to manipulate a girl (and trust me, I know more than my fair share) there are genuinely nice guys who have been overlooked and/or disregarded. If you are interested in learning more about why the statement you made is fallacy, I recommend you read up on the fundamental attribution error.
/endthreadjackandorrant
Many thanks to ChibiSwan of The Ugly Swan for the great banner!
Can't really suggest what to wear without knowing where you're going to eat, but I would imagine that most women want a man who:
1) has good hygeine (brush your teeth, take a shower, wear deodorant, etc)
2) doesn't have a sloppy appearance (try to wear clothing that's comfortable but stylish and doesn't wrinkle, bloat, etc)
3) keeps a positive/sunny disposition (laugh, smile, be personable, etc)
Jeans are fine to go out in, but sweaters and t-shirts? Might be a little too casual. Maybe buy a long-sleeved button down with a dark color (black, dark grey, midnight blue)? Do some research on what the Fall trends are. A couple of sites you can try are Lord and Taylor, Macy's, GQ, and Esquire. Also Google "Men's Fall fashion 2013" for ideas too.
After dinner ideas:
-Movie theatre
-Walk around the park/mall/public area of interest
-Bar/lounge
-Ask her if (s)he has anything in mind -- DON'T MAKE IT SOUND SEXUAL, JUST BE COURTEOUS!
I'm sure you'll do fine on your date. Just relax, be you, and don't worry so much!
So she said yes? Then you are pretty much golden.
Maybe buy a polo shirt?
And just pick a restaurant you can afford, that isn't fast food.
I think you're placing too much importance on this first date, it's your personality that will determine whether or not there is a second. Just be yourself, unless you are a jerk. Good luck!
Edit: If you want help talking to her, just ask her questions about her life, and follow-up on interesting things (if she mentions she like X, as her about X, what she likes about it, how she started liking it). All you have to do is be mildly interesting while not hogging the conversation or being annoying. If you two hit it off, you won't feel like you have to make conversation, you'll just have a nice time.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
I find this part of the thread interesting and wanted to chime in here based on my own experiences...
I was definitely a guy that was relegated to the "friendzone" for most of my highschool years. It was only during my first year at college that I discovered a secret that worked for me in future relationships. That secret? You have to inject a little bit of being an a-hole/indifferent in your relationships where you are looking to move forward with a girl.
Now, I admit that, at first glance this seems contradictory but I came to this concept when I asked myself a simple question - "Why do guys that I think are a-holes have no trouble getting girls?" The realization came to me is that girls inherently need a little bit of a challenge in order to "tame" a guy or "convince" him that she's the one. They are not interested in guys who present no challenge - i.e. "too nice", "too good to me", "really nice guy... as a friend". Quotes that I had heard personally.
I decided to put this realization to the test. Despite the fact that being indifferent and an a-hole was not my normal operating mode, I would try to inject a little bit of it in my interactions with girls (both ones I was interested in and ones I was not) to see the effect. I recall it being immediate. It seemed to me that, compared to previous, I became irresistable to them. I was able to keep girls in relationships for longer (until I determined they weren't a good fit for me) and also had girls finding ways to actually ask me out.
To provide some context on where I am today, in a couple of weeks I'll have been happily married for 15 years and, yes, the same principle still holds.
tl;dr version - Make sure to inject some indifference/a-hole behaviour into your relationships with girls. Being visibly "all-in" and completely nice will turn them off and torpedo your chances of either starting or maintaining a relationship.
I was a little late to really appreciate this one, but SHOES are huge. When I was younger I wore one pair everywhere until they wore out. From a pragmatic point of view that's fine, but now I know that a pair of good looking shoes chosen with intent are a deal breaker. When I am out in pubic I make snap calls about people and what I began to see was that the people I wrote off as anti-social losers (or whatever nicer term you want to use) all had shoes that looked like they were worn only because they were comfortable. People who looked in control had shoes that complemented their outfit and posture - even if the looked sloppy and unkempt if the shoes were right they looked like urban hipsters. If they wore worn out white Reeboks with uneven soles I got the "hopeless" vibe.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Shoes are important. Anytime I see my date wear something out of a dollar bin, B-horror movie, or porn flick I wretch a little inside.
I'm not saying you have to look like the centerfold for a Gucci ad, but you do want to at least look like you put effort into dressing nice. First impressions are important and whenever I go out on a date I always put my best foot forward when it comes to clothes and attitude. Sometimes my dates dress nice and put the same amount of effort into preparing. Sometimes I've had dates where they dress like they just go out of a spin class at the gym. I had one date where she dressed in a short pink skirt and a leopard-stripped top (needless to say I was a little embarassed but remained polite and acted like a gentleman throughout the date).
In sum, just dress nice. It doesn't have to be expensive, name brand, or exotic. Just. Dress. Nice.
Big no-no's for what you wear:
+Anything with wrinkles, tears, cuts, holes, or looks like it's worn out.
+Graphic t-shirts. Unless if you're both going super casual or have already dated a few times I would ditch the video game tees.
+Shorts
+Sneakers. Get regular shoes or shoes that match what you wear (see Galspanic's post.)
+Sweaters. This is more of a personal caveat for me. Sweaters are acceptable for dates in general, but I prefer bringing an overcoat or a jacket with me so you can be a BAWSS and offer your coat to your date when you walk outside and it gets chilly. It's polite, it's romantic, and it gives you mucho brownie points. Works every time!
Big yes-yes' for what you wear:
+Clothes with a fresh appearance. Don't pull out some 10-year old outfit and expect it to be fine when it goes through the washer. Go out, buy something fashionable yet simple, and dress to impress. Bonus points if they complement your figure by slenderizing or don't overexaggerate your chub (if you have any).
+Dark colors. Not talking all out Gothic appearance, just darker colors to hide any "unwanted" features. As a big guy I tend to go with darker colors so my fluff doesn't become as noticable. An example of what I wear would be a black polo shirt, dark washed jeans, and charcoal black Timberland boots with a belt that assimilates to the appearance.
+Cologne. This is pretty big. Some women like the natural scent of a man, but there's always that hidden aroma that capitvates a woman's senses like a fish on a hook. I suggest trying out some cologne samples at your local retailer to see what you like. My personal favorite is Dolce and Gabbana. It's subtle yet has a sweet enough scent that lingers throughout the night. Spray once after you shower and before you dress. Your natural body heat will let the smell exfoliate from your pores and make you smell irresistible.
+Coat. Depending on where you live a coat may be the perfect opportunity for you to display a huge heaping of chivalry (see above). A fall jacket or blazer works fine depending on what you want to wear.
+Umbrella (optional). Research ahead of time if you know the weather is going to be rainy. A good date is always prepared and it also impresses your date by showing consideration for planning ahead.
Just my two cents on what to do. Don't let all of this overwhelm you -- it's a lot less than you think.
I'm going to caution you against expressing this level of borderline dating advice again. Women aren't drones attracted to a certain set of rules. You should take a hard look at these beliefs and examine some of your conclusions. I outline the three biggest mistakes below:
1) There is no friend zone. There are only guys who don't have the confidence to ever act on their feelings and/or expect friendship to turn in to something more simply because they're a good friend, combined with unrealistic expectations of who they want to date. It's a bad mentality, and it sets you up for failure - if a girl isn't interested in you, move on. The only person who can 'friend zone' you is you, and it's a way of escaping culpability for failing to move on or pining after women who clearly aren't interested in you romantically.
2) Acting like an ******* isn't a prerequisite, and I'm honestly really surprised if you have been married for 15 years that you still think that is case. Most nerdy guys who don't understand why jerks 'get' girls (as if they were a prize to be won...) because they don't understand that confidence is one of the most attractive qualities you can you have. Jerks generally have confidence, but you don't have to be an ass to be confident.
3) Women don't follow a set standard of rules. Emotionally damaged women may want a 'project' or expect that they can 'fix' a guy (my buddy just broke up with one of those types), but it isn't anywhere near being a rule. Pop culture has some silly expectations for a relationship, and some people may truly believe those things, but they aren't the kind of people you want to be dating. A level-headed woman, the kind you'd want to be your partner for life, won't give a damn about any of that, and your advice would in fact scare away a level-headed person. Imagine if you were on a date and the woman stopped paying attention, ignored you, was mean to your waiter, etc. She wouldn't be the kind of person you'd want to keep going out with, would she?
I used to think like that and became a huge ******* my senior year of high school and though it made me 'cool'. And while I was more 'popular' (in the fact that more people noticed me and talked to me), it actually hurt my long-term chances with the girls I dated, and I frequently found myself with people I wouldn't want to be with long term.
The real key isn't to interject indifference or ******* behavior. It's simply to act confident and sure of yourself. Even if you don't feel it, practice acting confident, and eventually it won't be an act anymore. When I dialed back the ******* and simply acted like the nerdy guy I was - but with confidence - I was hugely successful in making real friends and in attracting women I wanted to date (including my wife). I know a lot of nerdy guys see jerks with women and think 'It must be because he's a jerk', but what they're missing is that they lack confidence and jerks don't. Heck, half the guys I thought were jerks in high school, because they were popular or on a sport team and I applied my own preconceptions on to them actually turned out to be pretty good guys when I actually got to know them.
The other part of your conclusion - acting indifferent - isn't precisely true either. It's true that you should never allow your entire life to revolve around another person - but it's ludicrous to think that not being nice the whole time will torpedo your chances. Simply be an equal participant in the conversation, or at least be attentive the whole time, and you'll do fine.
A nice polo, nice (not faded) jeans and a decent shoes will do you fine as 'dressed nicely', especially for a first date in college.
My only addition to this would be use cologne as sparingly as possible. Axe body spray is also not cologne, and most women I know find it repulsive. One small spray to your chest is more than enough.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
I agree with the AXE body spray. I consider AXE more to be a poor smelling masking agent rather than a refined cologne. Go to your local retailer, like Macy's or something equivalent, and shop around for a cologne. You don't want anything too heavy or potent.
The brand I suggested, and I will continue to suggest till the end of time, is 'Dolce and Gabbana the one for men'. It's sweet, sugary, subtle, and doesn't overwhelm the senses. One spray either on the chest or around the neck should suffice. When you spray keep a distance of a foot from your body. This will provide an even spread and not concentrate on a singular location.
I use a spray from Bath & Body Works my sister bought me years ago (I've yet to run out of my supply). It's a bit of an outdoorsy smell (I don't remember the name, but it's blue), and my wife likes it a lot. But I'm also not the kind of guy who can make regular colognes work for me, either.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
You sound like youve only reached the 2nd phase of understanding girls.
The 1st phase is "Hurrrp Duuurp Girls want to be worshipped by a guy!" Yes girls like this but this isnt what they want from a boyfreind. This is a ticket to getting freindzoned.
The 2nd phase is "Hmmmm, jerks get girls but not me when I worship them. Girls must like jerks because [insert reason why girls might like jerks]". This has works better then worshipping girls so some might think this is the answer. This can even work long term sometimes.
The 3rd phase is "Wait why would girls like jerks, that doesn't make sense. Oh, girls like confident guys and the jerks are just usually very (over?)confident! So i can get girls without being a jerk as long as I'm confident!" This seems to work good.
I don't know what the 4th phase is because I'm on the 3rd phase. What's the next phase?
Marriage, and pontificating your beliefs to the unmarried. I'm 4th phase
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Fifth phase must be married and pontificating your regrets to the unmarried and telling them to avoid it at all costs.
I must be that phase.
I really hope sixth phase isn't the same but divorced. That'd be expensive and I like being able to see my kid.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
It appears I was mostly misunderstood. Apologies for that, i'll explain myself better when i'm able to get to a proper keyboard.
To me it seems that we agree for the most part, it's just that our context is completely different. I'll describe later.
Fair enough - I'd love to hear what you meant.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
I met this girl back when we were young, about 8. For those of you who don't know me, I've always been the somber, quiet, mature type. She fell perfectly into my definition of a perfect girl, hell, even a perfect person. Good looking, nice personality, sense of humor, can cook, somewhat nerdy, but not nearly as otaku as me. We quickly became friends, and I can honestly say that when I had a huge relapse of my depression issues, she saved my life. And despite not believing in that Love at first sight BS, I loved her since we first met. I never told her how deeply I felt until recently, and I was shot down rather hard. She had started relying on me like an older brother, and she didn't want to take the next step. She said "We're really close, and still will be. You're the kind of guy I wouldn't want to date, but would love to marry." Translation, I'm too close to her for us to work out. I waited too long and was too nice. I'm doing my best to cope, but there will always be a section of my heart dedicated to her
TL;DR Make a move. Waiting forever will screw you in the ass like a drunken bisexual BDSM master
"I am disillusioned enough to know that no man's opinion on any subject is worth a damn unless backed up with enough genuine information to make him really know what he's talking about."
-H. P. Lovecraft
I think you learned the wrong lesson from this. You didn't 'wait too long'. If you're the kind of guy she'd want to marry - why isn't she interested? Dating generally leads to marriage for a couple that is happy together. Which leads me to believe that the reason she told you isn't the real reason. Your profile says you are still a student, and she may also not want to risk your friendship over something that, statistically speaking, probably won't work out.
It's also quite possible that she was trying to save your feelings. The big red flags on this were 'depression issues' and her 'saving your life'. I've had very close female friends like you describe, and one of the things I didn't realize at the time is that they were simply into a different (and more confident) kind of guy. If she knows you pretty well, she may love you as an 'older brother', but you very well may simply not be her type. I think this is far more likely, and it's no one's fault.
I think the bottom line here is people just need to understand that effort=/=results when it comes to a relationship.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Ask her out on a date. She'll probably reject you and explain the promise ring. Then you can just move on.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
eg.
"I like your sweater/hair/etc. you look hot, what's you're name?"
NB: this technique may not work for you if your presentation or delivery is creepy