2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Tormod: I'm not trying to open up a can of worms, I'm just speaking from experience.
I understand that. But did you really find it necessary to precursor your post with THAT statement?
I come from a very honorable family, and I have a very honorable wife. So right away you're putting others on the back foot.
I suggest sticking to the substance of what you're saying which has merit, but to drop the "generalizations" because they aren't serving your post in any positive way.
Then, props to your family. My post wasn't intended to offend, but as a response to one of the early repliers to this thread - but, fair enough, and I can see why you'd think that.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
From reading Bretane's posts its clear to me that Bretane knows whats going on and the severity and impact. He comes across as thoughtful and considerate of others. That is where I am coming from.
You must understand that coming across as the devils advocate when the person your speaking already knows the level of severity of the situation makes you seem disconnected almost preachy. I agree there is a value in playing the devil's advocate when that level of recognition hasn't been achieved. But in this scenario I believe is has been achieved from the get go. OP even took a day for his emotions too cool down before proceeding.
Fair enough. I clearly got too caught up to realize he had posted again, so we were essentially working at cross-purposes.
Although I'd rather Bretane speak for himself, I shouldn't have continued to engage you to the point where the last two or three pages of this thread are arguments.
EDIT: What if you caught your friend perving on your partner in the shower or something? Wouldn't you be angry? This is not a simple matter.
The fact is him and I are both adults, 21+, and we both have girlfriends. I thought I was the limit for him when he perves on other girls. What I don't get is why say that he is really sorry when the damage is done? He knew what he was doing. If he was surprised when he opened it and saw that they were "private images", he should have closed it immediately after seeing the first one, and not leave it open looking through every photo.
I actually didn't mean to tell his GF. I was actually mad after taking 12hrs to cool off, and rang her to tell her that he wasnt coming to the party because he wasn't my friend anymore. She asked why and I asked didn't he tell you what happened last night?
When she replied no, I kind of lost my temper and couldnt think straight so I told her, not thinking of him telling her himseld. He always leaves his gf in the dark anyways and tries to cover up when he knows he's in the wrong.
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I apologize, Bretane, I completely missed these post because I was too busy being thick-headed, and they would have changed the tone of my last few posts.
It sounds like your buddy has a history of problems with you, and is a general sleaze, which I didn't realize when making my posts. At this point, I recommend at the very least no longer actively hanging out with this person. To separate the wheat from the chaff of the last few posts, this is the only piece of advice I still stand behind (speaking of your girlfriend):
If the girlfriend is so hurt by it she never wants to see the guy again, and if this girlfriend has the potential to become his wife, I'd say putting the guy out to pasture is his best solution for the moment (after talking and at least resolving some of his feelings).
The complication, and the real reason I've been pushing the mitigating circumstances like I have, is because of Bretane's Ex-Girlfriend. If he's still friends with her, and she still loves the friend, he can't force her to choose without being the bad guy. It doesn't sound like that was an instant break-up reason for her. Only inviting her to things from now on hurts the ex as much as the friend. And, quite frankly, that kind of a scenario, where one person with close ties to a group is 'cut out' unilaterally by another person in a group, never works out. It'd be far easier for Bretane to remove himself from the group than excise his friend.
Essentially what I'm saying is that while you actively shouldn't continue to try and be friends with this person, if he's ingrained in your social circle it's impossible to truly be rid of him, and leaving him off invites just becomes petty at a certain point. Don't engage him at future parties and tell him at the upcoming party that, because the wound is so fresh, he isn't invited.
Then, props to your family. My post wasn't intended to offend, but as a response to one of the early repliers to this thread - but, fair enough, and I can see why you'd think that.
I think there is variance to how you define honor, that is why its so loaded.
eg.
"You saw my wife naked, I must defend her honor"
VS.
"A mother that makes sacrifices for her children as honorable"
Does that shed some light as too how offensive your generalization is?
This isn't a good analogy. No physical harm was done, just embarrassment and the breaking of trust.
I knew someone would bring up a domestic violence or sexual assault analogy, and it isn't accurate. There are three parties involved here. Take the nude photos out of the equation and bring the emotional relevance in: A better analogy is that Bretane was given his girlfriend's diary. Something deeply personal and intimate. He left the diary out, open to something interesting, and shows his friend that he was given this diary and that it has lots more deeply personal entries and asked his friend not to read the diary. Then the friend read the diary anyway. Bretane's situation isn't objectively any different. Subjectively, sure, it definitely feels greater because of the subject matter.
No, you're missing the point of my analogy.
Some people on this thread claimed that the OP must accept some responsibility for his friend's actions, because he left the calendar up there.
That is structurally and logically akin to saying that a wife of a wife-beater must accept some responsibility for her husband's actions, because she stayed with him even though he beat her.
While the supposed emotional value invested into them may differ, they are structurally the same thing.
The point of the analogy was in the concept of placing responsibility and blame, not how much damage was done to people.
While I personally believe that everyone has to share responsibility in any given situation where multiple people are involved, there are also situations where A's action is so unjustifiable that it more or less overrides any responsibility that B may have had.
In this case, I still do not buy that B (the OP, in other words) had any real responsibility for what happened. And even if he did have some genuine responsibility, I believe that A's action was completely unjustifiable, and I believe that some people are letting A (the friend) off WAY too easy for some inexplicable reason.'
Much the same way that I do not buy that B (the wife) had any real responsibility for what happened when A (her husband) beats her. Because any actions that she may have done that could possibly justify a beating would have been better handled by A going to the police or just leaving, for example.
And so on and so forth.
Your analogy is poor for a couple of reasons (going off what the OP said)-
1) The OP didn't show his friend the calendar. His friend asked him about the calendar and whether it's the thing he's hiding every time someone comes over when he saw it up on the wall.
There is a significant difference between the two.
2) The OP never said that he told his friend that there are nude pictures in the calendar. The edit that you quoted in some later post strongly suggests this.
A far better example using the diary would be-
The OP was given his gf's diary. He left the diary out in the open one day when his friend came. His friend is aware of the diary's existence and confirms it with the OP. The OP later finds out that his friend had read the diary when the OP left the room to go to the bathroom.
The friend cannot be seen in anything but a negative light here.
I think there is variance to how you define honor, that is why its so loaded.
eg.
"You saw my wife naked, I must defend her honor"
VS.
"A mother that makes sacrifices for her children as honorable"
Does that shed some light as too how offensive your generalization is?
Not exactly? I wouldn't consider the latter honor so much as parental obligation. Unless that's the point you're trying to make, in which case, it's going over my head.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I dropped him. I invited him over to talk, but half an hour before he came over, his girlfriend told me that he had taken photos of this calendar. He didn't tell me, his girlfriend, or anyone about taking the photos.
So when he came over, I told him that I was gonna forgive him, but finding out he had the nerve to actually take photos and hide them. What could you expect? I was furious. I didn't throw punches, I just talked in a stern voice.
I told him that all I can think about was I can't trust him and that's that. Improve his judgement incase he loses another friend. I feel bad though, since I was his only friend. I told his girlfriend if he improves and gets help with his addiction to porn (he admitted he has a problem) and he approaches me first, I might let him back in my life, but we will never be 100% good friends again I feel. I'm also staying away from him at least a month to cool down.
What would you do with this new information?
EDIT:
@Jay: I do know how bad it could have been. I'm a web developer/programmer. I know how images get around in this day and age.
@Everyone who thinks I don't blame myself: I also do know I did stuff up and should have remembered to pull down the poster. I was not in a good state of mind, having a blurry mind and feeling sick. My girlfriend tells me it wasn't my fault, and knows which image was up. What she was angry at was him going through the "inappropriate" ones and that he actually took photos. But the fact of the matter is, it is not my fault that my friend looked through the calendar when I clearly said it is off-limits, it is private.
EDIT 2:
He is a good friend to me, not my best friend. HE considers ME to be HIS "Best Friend".
I dropped him. I invited him over to talk, but half an hour before he came over, his girlfriend told me that he had taken photos of this calendar. He didn't tell me, his girlfriend, or anyone about taking the photos.
---
What would you do with this new information?
No, he's done. I think I mentioned in an earlier post that if he took photos, he's done. That's incredibly sleazy, especially since he tried to hide it and apparently kept them long enough for the girlfriend to find out (by checking his phone). Do you know if his (hopefully ex-girlfriend now as well) deleted the photos?
You don't take pictures of that kind of thing without some serious ill intent. This wasn't a lack of self control that might (eventually) be forgiven, this was a calculated act, which changes it a lot for me. You can't know if he had the intention to spread those pictures, and that kind of deceit definitely makes him untrustworthy.
Not exactly? I wouldn't consider the latter honor so much as parental obligation. Unless that's the point you're trying to make, in which case, it's going over my head.
Ok, I'll try to make it simple.
Your intent is irrelevant, Your definition of honor is irrelevant.
You can't say "honor is largely foreign to women." Because it's NOT TRUE and it makes you sounds like a misogynist.
@ Brentane.
It seems like this guy's friendship is a time bomb waiting to explode. It could be possible and I suspect based on his character that he's done a number of things to spite your friendship that you may not know about. These could be the only things he been got caught for.
Tough situation. I've gotten rid of former friends who violated my trust. You're always better off in the end.
I told him that all I can think about was I can't trust him and that's that. Improve his judgement incase he loses another friend. I feel bad though, since I was his only friend. I told his girlfriend if he improves and gets help with his addiction to porn (he admitted he has a problem) and he approaches me first, I might let him back in my life, but we will never be 100% good friends again I feel. I'm also staying away from him at least a month to cool down.
You should never trust him again. In fact, you should completely cut him out of your life and avoid him at all times. He's a monster.
Addiction to porn has nothing to do with it, unless the guy has a mental illness and literally cannot restrain himself from watching porn.
The issue here isn't his addiction to porn- it's that he has absolutely no understanding of boundaries in any relationship and the concept of trust and respect. Like I said, he's a monster. Sociopaths also exhibit this behavior. In fact, I believe that is one of the key definitions of a sociopath- lack of empathy and understanding for others. The guy considers you his best friend, and then he does this. Something is very wrong here.
As for the pictures- I really hope your ex-gf tried her best to get rid of all the photos.
You should never trust him again. In fact, you should completely cut him out of your life and avoid him at all times. He's a monster.
Addiction to porn has nothing to do with it, unless the guy has a mental illness and literally cannot restrain himself from watching porn.
The issue here isn't his addiction to porn- it's that he has absolutely no understanding of boundaries in any relationship and the concept of trust and respect. Like I said, he's a monster. Sociopaths also exhibit this behavior. In fact, I believe that is one of the key definitions of a sociopath- lack of empathy and understanding for others. The guy considers you his best friend, and then he does this. Something is very wrong here.
As for the pictures- I really hope your ex-gf tried her best to get rid of all the photos.
OP- The "porn addiction" is probably just an excuse. There is very little chance that he would be able to maintain a girl friend with a porn addiction unless she was also really into porn or wasn't really into sex. Now... I believe that he really really likes porn and probably looks at more than someone in a relationship should but that doesnt make it an addiction.
OP- The "porn addiction" is probably just an excuse. There is very little chance that he would be able to maintain a girl friend with a porn addiction unless she was also really into porn or wasn't really into sex. Now... I believe that he really really likes porn and probably looks at more than someone in a relationship should but that doesnt make it an addiction.
It's very, very easy to hide a 'porn' addiction, even from a girlfriend (and especially if you aren't living together). I had a coworker who was fired for it, despite being warned to stop on several occasions, he simply was unable to control himself. His wife and children had no idea until after he was fired - despite being let go from other companies under suspicious circumstances. His wife only found out later, and was in the process of divorcing him last I heard. The guy was otherwise a kind, charitable person.
Honestly, I feel sorry for Bretane's former friend. He's a rather pathetic figure, since Bretane was apparently his only friend and that's definitely over now. Not sorry enough to excuse his betrayal, however.
Wow.. I was an advocate for dropping him before the pictures were taken, but now, well, if it were my girlfriend I know for sure his phone wouldn't have made it out of the room intact, and depending on what happenned after that it may have gotten violent. Betraying my trust is one thing, but having someone who is obviously unbalanced and without any self control in possession of naked pictures of my girlfriend would cause me to go to some lengths to make sure I got them back.
I dropped him. I invited him over to talk, but half an hour before he came over, his girlfriend told me that he had taken photos of this calendar. He didn't tell me, his girlfriend, or anyone about taking the photos.
So when he came over, I told him that I was gonna forgive him, but finding out he had the nerve to actually take photos and hide them. What could you expect? I was furious. I didn't throw punches, I just talked in a stern voice.
I told him that all I can think about was I can't trust him and that's that. Improve his judgement incase he loses another friend. I feel bad though, since I was his only friend. I told his girlfriend if he improves and gets help with his addiction to porn (he admitted he has a problem) and he approaches me first, I might let him back in my life, but we will never be 100% good friends again I feel. I'm also staying away from him at least a month to cool down.
What would you do with this new information?
EDIT:
@Jay: I do know how bad it could have been. I'm a web developer/programmer. I know how images get around in this day and age.
@Everyone who thinks I don't blame myself: I also do know I did stuff up and should have remembered to pull down the poster. I was not in a good state of mind, having a blurry mind and feeling sick. My girlfriend tells me it wasn't my fault, and knows which image was up. What she was angry at was him going through the "inappropriate" ones and that he actually took photos. But the fact of the matter is, it is not my fault that my friend looked through the calendar when I clearly said it is off-limits, it is private.
EDIT 2:
He is a good friend to me, not my best friend. HE considers ME to be HIS "Best Friend".
In light of this information, I would say you behaved appropriately.
______________________
Re: the argument over who's fault what is and all that
I think a lot of people here underestimate the gravity of friendship, and how difficult it is to break. Or maybe I just have a different hierarchy of values than others here. I value loyalty very highly. By that, I mean sticking with someone through thick and thin. I also think I'm a pretty forgiving person. I think everyone deserves a second chance, possibly a third if there's good reason for it. I'm not perfect, and neither is anyone else. Also, I view trusting another person as taking a calculated risk. I expect to get burned occasionally by trusting people. It's the price to pay for the benefits that come with trust.
So I can understand that if someone was less concerned about loyalty to a friend, less forgiving, and felt that trust is an unbreakable bond that should never be broken... then I could understand the kinds of reactions I'm seeing here. Like I said, I have a different value hierarchy I guess. Like if I found out that my best friend was a serial killer, I would feel absolutely horrible for my friend as well as all the victims. Maybe even moreso for my friend?
The issue here isn't his addiction to porn- it's that he has absolutely no understanding of boundaries in any relationship and the concept of trust and respect. Like I said, he's a monster.
He's not a monster. He's a human. You're dehumanizing him here. This makes it easier to justify aggression towards him. This is the same friend the OP has known all along. He's now done something seriously wrong, and what he's done cannot be undone at this point.
What can the friend do to right the situation? Offer a sincere apology? Write out a sincere apology? Promise to go to counseling for porn addiction? Is righting the situation impossible at this point? This is a question only those involved can answer, because it will be different for different people. I don't think there's a "right answer" here.
Sociopaths also exhibit this behavior. In fact, I believe that is one of the key definitions of a sociopath- lack of empathy and understanding for others.
Oh come on now, that by itself certainly does not constitute sociopathy.
You, for example, have demonstrated a lack of empathy and understanding of people who disagree with you in this very thread. You don't seem to be saying "let me try to understand why these people disagree with me", you're approach is more of "Rawr! What the hell is wrong with you people!"
This does not make you a sociopath.
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"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love." --Carl Sagan
He's not a monster. He's a human. You're dehumanizing him here. This makes it easier to justify aggression towards him. This is the same friend the OP has known all along. He's now done something seriously wrong, and what he's done cannot be undone at this point.
What can the friend do to right the situation? Offer a sincere apology? Write out a sincere apology? Promise to go to counseling for porn addiction? Is righting the situation impossible at this point? This is a question only those involved can answer, because it will be different for different people. I don't think there's a "right answer" here.
I believe that there is nothing he can do, and it would be foolish for the OP to try to mend fences.
You, for example, have demonstrated a lack of empathy and understanding of people who disagree with you in this very thread. You don't seem to be saying "let me try to understand why these people disagree with me", you're approach is more of "Rawr! What the hell is wrong with you people!"
That's because I don't understand how people can see anything that makes the friend's behavior even remotely justifiable.
The two basic claims that I've seen people make here that tries to understand the friend's behavior are-
-That not everyone is perfect and you have to let people err once in a while.
-That he's young and horny.
Neither of them are good explanations.
While what you say is understandable, though I don't think I said anything that goes towards "rawr! what the hell is wrong with you people!", I simply find it appalling that people even tried to say anything besides "the friend is nuts; he's bad."
I would be mad at the friend because he totally disrespected me in my own home. Bretane's friend outright lied to his face and disobeyed a directive not to touch one of his belongings. I wouldn't throw away the friendship but I would bar him from my house until trust has been earned back. A person's home is the one place where you have some measure of control over your environment. Asking someone not to touch something in your home is reasonable, no matter what it is. Unless the guy has some compulsive porn problem he was wrong to look at the calendar.
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{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I understand that. But did you really find it necessary to precursor your post with THAT statement?
I come from a very honorable family, and I have a very honorable wife. So right away you're putting others on the back foot.
I suggest sticking to the substance of what you're saying which has merit, but to drop the "generalizations" because they aren't serving your post in any positive way.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Fair enough. I clearly got too caught up to realize he had posted again, so we were essentially working at cross-purposes.
Although I'd rather Bretane speak for himself, I shouldn't have continued to engage you to the point where the last two or three pages of this thread are arguments.
I apologize, Bretane, I completely missed these post because I was too busy being thick-headed, and they would have changed the tone of my last few posts.
It sounds like your buddy has a history of problems with you, and is a general sleaze, which I didn't realize when making my posts. At this point, I recommend at the very least no longer actively hanging out with this person. To separate the wheat from the chaff of the last few posts, this is the only piece of advice I still stand behind (speaking of your girlfriend):
Essentially what I'm saying is that while you actively shouldn't continue to try and be friends with this person, if he's ingrained in your social circle it's impossible to truly be rid of him, and leaving him off invites just becomes petty at a certain point. Don't engage him at future parties and tell him at the upcoming party that, because the wound is so fresh, he isn't invited.
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I think there is variance to how you define honor, that is why its so loaded.
eg.
"You saw my wife naked, I must defend her honor"
VS.
"A mother that makes sacrifices for her children as honorable"
Does that shed some light as too how offensive your generalization is?
No, you're missing the point of my analogy.
Some people on this thread claimed that the OP must accept some responsibility for his friend's actions, because he left the calendar up there.
That is structurally and logically akin to saying that a wife of a wife-beater must accept some responsibility for her husband's actions, because she stayed with him even though he beat her.
While the supposed emotional value invested into them may differ, they are structurally the same thing.
The point of the analogy was in the concept of placing responsibility and blame, not how much damage was done to people.
While I personally believe that everyone has to share responsibility in any given situation where multiple people are involved, there are also situations where A's action is so unjustifiable that it more or less overrides any responsibility that B may have had.
In this case, I still do not buy that B (the OP, in other words) had any real responsibility for what happened. And even if he did have some genuine responsibility, I believe that A's action was completely unjustifiable, and I believe that some people are letting A (the friend) off WAY too easy for some inexplicable reason.'
Much the same way that I do not buy that B (the wife) had any real responsibility for what happened when A (her husband) beats her. Because any actions that she may have done that could possibly justify a beating would have been better handled by A going to the police or just leaving, for example.
And so on and so forth.
Your analogy is poor for a couple of reasons (going off what the OP said)-
1) The OP didn't show his friend the calendar. His friend asked him about the calendar and whether it's the thing he's hiding every time someone comes over when he saw it up on the wall.
There is a significant difference between the two.
2) The OP never said that he told his friend that there are nude pictures in the calendar. The edit that you quoted in some later post strongly suggests this.
A far better example using the diary would be-
The OP was given his gf's diary. He left the diary out in the open one day when his friend came. His friend is aware of the diary's existence and confirms it with the OP. The OP later finds out that his friend had read the diary when the OP left the room to go to the bathroom.
The friend cannot be seen in anything but a negative light here.
Not exactly? I wouldn't consider the latter honor so much as parental obligation. Unless that's the point you're trying to make, in which case, it's going over my head.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
So when he came over, I told him that I was gonna forgive him, but finding out he had the nerve to actually take photos and hide them. What could you expect? I was furious. I didn't throw punches, I just talked in a stern voice.
I told him that all I can think about was I can't trust him and that's that. Improve his judgement incase he loses another friend. I feel bad though, since I was his only friend. I told his girlfriend if he improves and gets help with his addiction to porn (he admitted he has a problem) and he approaches me first, I might let him back in my life, but we will never be 100% good friends again I feel. I'm also staying away from him at least a month to cool down.
What would you do with this new information?
EDIT:
@Jay: I do know how bad it could have been. I'm a web developer/programmer. I know how images get around in this day and age.
@Everyone who thinks I don't blame myself: I also do know I did stuff up and should have remembered to pull down the poster. I was not in a good state of mind, having a blurry mind and feeling sick. My girlfriend tells me it wasn't my fault, and knows which image was up. What she was angry at was him going through the "inappropriate" ones and that he actually took photos. But the fact of the matter is, it is not my fault that my friend looked through the calendar when I clearly said it is off-limits, it is private.
EDIT 2:
He is a good friend to me, not my best friend. HE considers ME to be HIS "Best Friend".
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No, he's done. I think I mentioned in an earlier post that if he took photos, he's done. That's incredibly sleazy, especially since he tried to hide it and apparently kept them long enough for the girlfriend to find out (by checking his phone). Do you know if his (hopefully ex-girlfriend now as well) deleted the photos?
You don't take pictures of that kind of thing without some serious ill intent. This wasn't a lack of self control that might (eventually) be forgiven, this was a calculated act, which changes it a lot for me. You can't know if he had the intention to spread those pictures, and that kind of deceit definitely makes him untrustworthy.
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Ok, I'll try to make it simple.
Your intent is irrelevant, Your definition of honor is irrelevant.
You can't say "honor is largely foreign to women." Because it's NOT TRUE and it makes you sounds like a misogynist.
@ Brentane.
It seems like this guy's friendship is a time bomb waiting to explode. It could be possible and I suspect based on his character that he's done a number of things to spite your friendship that you may not know about. These could be the only things he been got caught for.
Tough situation. I've gotten rid of former friends who violated my trust. You're always better off in the end.
You should never trust him again. In fact, you should completely cut him out of your life and avoid him at all times. He's a monster.
Addiction to porn has nothing to do with it, unless the guy has a mental illness and literally cannot restrain himself from watching porn.
The issue here isn't his addiction to porn- it's that he has absolutely no understanding of boundaries in any relationship and the concept of trust and respect. Like I said, he's a monster. Sociopaths also exhibit this behavior. In fact, I believe that is one of the key definitions of a sociopath- lack of empathy and understanding for others. The guy considers you his best friend, and then he does this. Something is very wrong here.
As for the pictures- I really hope your ex-gf tried her best to get rid of all the photos.
Something I've noticed is that the concept of logical reasoning and proof is largely foreign to Iso.
We both committed the exact same logical flaw here, btw.
One that you really should strive to learn.
Infraction for flaming. Remember to attack the idea, not the person - Jay13x
OP- The "porn addiction" is probably just an excuse. There is very little chance that he would be able to maintain a girl friend with a porn addiction unless she was also really into porn or wasn't really into sex. Now... I believe that he really really likes porn and probably looks at more than someone in a relationship should but that doesnt make it an addiction.
It's very, very easy to hide a 'porn' addiction, even from a girlfriend (and especially if you aren't living together). I had a coworker who was fired for it, despite being warned to stop on several occasions, he simply was unable to control himself. His wife and children had no idea until after he was fired - despite being let go from other companies under suspicious circumstances. His wife only found out later, and was in the process of divorcing him last I heard. The guy was otherwise a kind, charitable person.
Honestly, I feel sorry for Bretane's former friend. He's a rather pathetic figure, since Bretane was apparently his only friend and that's definitely over now. Not sorry enough to excuse his betrayal, however.
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In light of this information, I would say you behaved appropriately.
Re: the argument over who's fault what is and all that
I think a lot of people here underestimate the gravity of friendship, and how difficult it is to break. Or maybe I just have a different hierarchy of values than others here. I value loyalty very highly. By that, I mean sticking with someone through thick and thin. I also think I'm a pretty forgiving person. I think everyone deserves a second chance, possibly a third if there's good reason for it. I'm not perfect, and neither is anyone else. Also, I view trusting another person as taking a calculated risk. I expect to get burned occasionally by trusting people. It's the price to pay for the benefits that come with trust.
So I can understand that if someone was less concerned about loyalty to a friend, less forgiving, and felt that trust is an unbreakable bond that should never be broken... then I could understand the kinds of reactions I'm seeing here. Like I said, I have a different value hierarchy I guess. Like if I found out that my best friend was a serial killer, I would feel absolutely horrible for my friend as well as all the victims. Maybe even moreso for my friend?
I dunno, that's just how I am.
He's not a monster. He's a human. You're dehumanizing him here. This makes it easier to justify aggression towards him. This is the same friend the OP has known all along. He's now done something seriously wrong, and what he's done cannot be undone at this point.
What can the friend do to right the situation? Offer a sincere apology? Write out a sincere apology? Promise to go to counseling for porn addiction? Is righting the situation impossible at this point? This is a question only those involved can answer, because it will be different for different people. I don't think there's a "right answer" here.
Oh come on now, that by itself certainly does not constitute sociopathy.
You, for example, have demonstrated a lack of empathy and understanding of people who disagree with you in this very thread. You don't seem to be saying "let me try to understand why these people disagree with me", you're approach is more of "Rawr! What the hell is wrong with you people!"
This does not make you a sociopath.
I am dehumanizing him. It is intentional.
I believe that there is nothing he can do, and it would be foolish for the OP to try to mend fences.
Did I say "that by itself"? Nope. I said that is "one of the key definitions for".
That's because I don't understand how people can see anything that makes the friend's behavior even remotely justifiable.
The two basic claims that I've seen people make here that tries to understand the friend's behavior are-
-That not everyone is perfect and you have to let people err once in a while.
-That he's young and horny.
Neither of them are good explanations.
While what you say is understandable, though I don't think I said anything that goes towards "rawr! what the hell is wrong with you people!", I simply find it appalling that people even tried to say anything besides "the friend is nuts; he's bad."