We've seen plenty of instances of androids/cyborgs/whatever being relatable. Terminator, Data, Cyborg from Teen Titans, etc.
Ultron could have definitely been a villain we could relate with, especially considering that he was intentionally given 'shortcomings' that reflected Stark's personality.
@Highroller: I'm referring to what happens at the end. And I agree that Marvel's villains have sucked in general, a couple of them have been good(Stane and Loki). I would say 'I guess it's just the actor', but Spader is definitely a great actor..so. What gives.
I think we're on the same page about Age of Ultron then... we just differ in how we respond to this flaw in the movie. I guess I'm just more merciful for giving an "A for effort" (I'd actually rate this movie a B or B+ if we want to get into grading scales, vs. the first Avengers which is an A-).
I wouldn't rate the film higher than a C-. Again, movie was a mess. Lots of ideas, sure, but execution was awful on almost everything.
Eh, when I think of a movie with Marvel characters that's full of ideas but executed in such a messy faction that it never deserves better than a C-, I think of The Amazing Spider-Man 2. Personally, I could see myself going as low as B- for Avengers 2. If you think you could be talked into C+, I'd say at least between you and me, we've reached a common enough interpretation of the movie to say close enough and call it a day.
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@Highroller: I'm referring to what happens at the end.
Yeah... That thing that happens at the end would have resonated if there had been some character development. Instead it fell flat.
They really needed to give Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch the role of the villains for the movie, and made the Tony Stark/Ultron/Vision story into a separate Iron Man film. That would give them the spotlight, and also give an opportunity for Strucker to take the role Ultron filled in this film, the bigger bad guy that the twins eventually betray when they find out how evil he is.
And I agree that Marvel's villains have sucked in general, a couple of them have been good(Stane and Loki). I would say 'I guess it's just the actor', but Spader is definitely a great actor..so. What gives.
Well, even an excellent actor can only do so much. Even if you assemble a team of great actors who have chemistry together, like this team does, you still have to give them interesting things to do and say, and you have to manage the storyline.
Eh, when I think of a movie with Marvel characters that's full of ideas but executed in such a messy faction that it never deserves better than a C-, I think of The Amazing Spider-Man 2. Personally, I could see myself going as low as B- for Avengers 2. If you think you could be talked into C+, I'd say at least between you and me, we've reached a common enough interpretation of the movie to say close enough and call it a day.
No, a C+ is still above average. This movie never hit the level of Iron Man 3, and it's no Uwe Boll film, but it also killed almost all of my interest in this Marvel shared universe, and I came in with a lot of good will.
I think we're going to have to agree to disagree here.
Finally saw the movie last night. Not awful, but it was certainly disappointing. Way too much going on with not enough explanation or development of any one thing, and too much cgi robot bashing just to fill time. If you had stripped out half the threads and instead given the other half a little room to breathe, it could have been a much better film.
Though Spader delivered his lines well, I never felt like Ultron was a real menace or threat. The bigger threat was whether or not the team could work together, which was a plot we already did in the last movie. Also Jarvis being able to defeat Ultron off-screen in internet-land really castrated him. The Twins didn't really belong in this movie, and what was up with Thor running off on a vision-quest in the middle of the film? There was just so much going on that was not well-explained or well-connected, but hey let's just punch more robots until we win.
Ultron was pretty poorly done, agreed. James Spader has always been solidly B-List (to me) and gave a pretty standard delivery. However, the way they wrote the Ultron character itself just felt a bit off to me. I was happy everytime he left the screen.
I read a lot of stuff about 'they crammed too much into it, so many storylines..' I didn't really feel that at all. It felt like standard Whedon--dense, to be sure, but not incomprehsibly so like a Chris Nolan film.
Agreed twins felt out-of-place and, apart from the chronology/backstory justification (which was 100% fabricated for this film?), had little reason to be in this film at all.
I went movie hopping on Wednesday. Saw Avengers, Mad Max, and Ex Machina.
The whole "rewrite the twins with an all new backstory just for this film" was unnecessary. Considering all the potential characters available in the Marvel Universe that could have been chosen. There were plot points that were just unnecessary. Ultron had emotion where he didn't need any. An emotionless implacable robot would have been more intimidating than what they gave us. Quicksilver had a pointless death. He was portrayed way better in X-MEN;Days Of Future Past. And even when Scarlet Witch was messing with everyone's head I only got a general "messing with their head" but I didn't get why it was a matter of how they just couldn't work together. Only Stark's illusion seemed like it would take him out. I did like the B-List Avengers at the end. I also liked how Bruce Banner just left. That felt very much like something Bruce Banner would do.
I was much happier with Ex Machina. That movie was fantastic.
I read a lot of stuff about 'they crammed too much into it, so many storylines..' I didn't really feel that at all. It felt like standard Whedon--dense, to be sure, but not incomprehsibly so like a Chris Nolan film.
That's because they never actually went into any of the other plots.
Like, Scarlet Witch goes into everybody's head. And that lasts for just a few scenes where we get the briefest runover of everyone's deepest fears, and then we abruptly cut to another scene. We meet Hawkeye's family, and we get like one scene with them together, and then it's time to go back into the plane.
It's like Tony Stark having PTSD in Iron Man 3. We're told he is, but the movie never takes the time to explore that.
There are all of these moments where, if they had taken their time, would have been excellent character moments. But they didn't. Probably because Marvel execs were all like, "MOAR EXPLOSIONS! MUST HAVE INFINITY STONES!"
Ultron could have definitely been a villain we could relate with, especially considering that he was intentionally given 'shortcomings' that reflected Stark's personality.
@Highroller: I'm referring to what happens at the end. And I agree that Marvel's villains have sucked in general, a couple of them have been good(Stane and Loki). I would say 'I guess it's just the actor', but Spader is definitely a great actor..so. What gives.
Eh, when I think of a movie with Marvel characters that's full of ideas but executed in such a messy faction that it never deserves better than a C-, I think of The Amazing Spider-Man 2. Personally, I could see myself going as low as B- for Avengers 2. If you think you could be talked into C+, I'd say at least between you and me, we've reached a common enough interpretation of the movie to say close enough and call it a day.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
They really needed to give Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch the role of the villains for the movie, and made the Tony Stark/Ultron/Vision story into a separate Iron Man film. That would give them the spotlight, and also give an opportunity for Strucker to take the role Ultron filled in this film, the bigger bad guy that the twins eventually betray when they find out how evil he is.
Well, even an excellent actor can only do so much. Even if you assemble a team of great actors who have chemistry together, like this team does, you still have to give them interesting things to do and say, and you have to manage the storyline.
That didn't happen.
No, a C+ is still above average. This movie never hit the level of Iron Man 3, and it's no Uwe Boll film, but it also killed almost all of my interest in this Marvel shared universe, and I came in with a lot of good will.
I think we're going to have to agree to disagree here.
Though Spader delivered his lines well, I never felt like Ultron was a real menace or threat. The bigger threat was whether or not the team could work together, which was a plot we already did in the last movie. Also Jarvis being able to defeat Ultron off-screen in internet-land really castrated him. The Twins didn't really belong in this movie, and what was up with Thor running off on a vision-quest in the middle of the film? There was just so much going on that was not well-explained or well-connected, but hey let's just punch more robots until we win.
I read a lot of stuff about 'they crammed too much into it, so many storylines..' I didn't really feel that at all. It felt like standard Whedon--dense, to be sure, but not incomprehsibly so like a Chris Nolan film.
Agreed twins felt out-of-place and, apart from the chronology/backstory justification (which was 100% fabricated for this film?), had little reason to be in this film at all.
I'd give it C+/B- overall.
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The whole "rewrite the twins with an all new backstory just for this film" was unnecessary. Considering all the potential characters available in the Marvel Universe that could have been chosen. There were plot points that were just unnecessary. Ultron had emotion where he didn't need any. An emotionless implacable robot would have been more intimidating than what they gave us. Quicksilver had a pointless death. He was portrayed way better in X-MEN;Days Of Future Past. And even when Scarlet Witch was messing with everyone's head I only got a general "messing with their head" but I didn't get why it was a matter of how they just couldn't work together. Only Stark's illusion seemed like it would take him out. I did like the B-List Avengers at the end. I also liked how Bruce Banner just left. That felt very much like something Bruce Banner would do.
I was much happier with Ex Machina. That movie was fantastic.
Like, Scarlet Witch goes into everybody's head. And that lasts for just a few scenes where we get the briefest runover of everyone's deepest fears, and then we abruptly cut to another scene. We meet Hawkeye's family, and we get like one scene with them together, and then it's time to go back into the plane.
It's like Tony Stark having PTSD in Iron Man 3. We're told he is, but the movie never takes the time to explore that.
There are all of these moments where, if they had taken their time, would have been excellent character moments. But they didn't. Probably because Marvel execs were all like, "MOAR EXPLOSIONS! MUST HAVE INFINITY STONES!"
anyone care to agree?