Yeah, kpaca, I think you summarized (or guess not a summary, explained) well what I was saying. You have the proper ability to play your style and other people trying to copy it don't actually understand the background behind it.
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If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
I just think you rely too much on other people. You should learn to get up and get your own. Read for yourself. The chances of you being led around by scum are too high, and still to this day I am devastated when I finally realize the guy I've been following around and agreeing with is mafia. It sucks because you start to doubt your own judgment.
I should, that is a problem for me when I`m town.
Hrmm.
I think I will work on changing that.
Otherwise I think you're a really good new addition to the community.
Like I said, I think the fact that me and Seppel both kinda started around the same time and were both something different caught attention, and then the fact that we both managed some success like this has caused more and more new players to take this approach because it seems easy, in that it appears we don't analyze and just post whatever we want and have a grand time. Well maybe Seppel does (lol I doubt it), but I for one know I keep detailed notes and analysis and just frankly condense that into frequent quips. The problem is the new players are trying to post like me or Seppel, without the analysis/experience that we have to back ourselves up.
I have notes that I keep but I prefer not to let others know that as I get better reactions from players.
I can`t imagine people trying to play that style and not have at least notes in their head.
also I think my favorite part about that type of playstyle is that it puts you in the gray area and you are less likely to be influenced by your alignment.
I`m gonna try and beef up my experience and analysis but that does take time.
Also me and Seppel appear to be somewhat polarizing type figures as far as posting in an online forum goes.
I have to say I like playing with people who make me enjoy the game.
some people just suck the fun out of it and I hate that.
I'm willing to assume I'm somewhere in this category and let me just say that I never, ever, am not trying to win as hard as I can. Except maybe goo mafia. But outside of that, I am extremely competitive.
I also feel like I somewhat was at the forefront of ushering in this sort of apparently irrational horrible play type thing, and for that I do apologize, but I continue to assert I am always doing what I think is best in the scenario and am never "playing bad on purpose".
Edit: I must say that I disagree with this decision and fully support [The Family]. I must ask though, shouldn't this be a decision of the clan council and not the clan mods!?
Actually you weren't one of the people I was thinking about. Your playstyle annoys me but I think you're a good player. When you're town you have very good reads (seems like they're mainly gut?), and when you're scum the town generally doesn't look twice at you until it's too late.
The people I'm thinking about are purely distractions from the game, whatever their alignment and contribute nothing to the game aside from being a warm body.
You're choosing not to trust me, who has been running these things for several years, that this is the best way to proceed.
We're going to agree to disagree, & there's nothing else for me to say
Ria, I respect your opinion but I don't think 'trust me' really cuts it here.
Nobody's saying we don't deserve to be punished here. Obviously a line in the sand needs to be drawn somewhere. But saying that because we screwed up on a card we're out of the contest as opposed to losing a point or two...well that just seems a bit much.
Ria, I respect your opinion but I don't think 'trust me' really cuts it here.
I'm not saying Trust Me, I'm saying Trust My Years of Experience Running These. I don't think you see the bigger picture.
Not every contest is as easy as "oh, add a basic land & take a point off" - what it is & has been my job is to make as level a playing field for these extremely varied contests. It's not as easy as 'take a point'.
On the subject of playstyles, it saddens me that poor players with peculiar playstyles are so often hated, and so much more than poor players with generic playstyles. I'll take a dozen Tildes and Vezokpirakas any day over any forgettable and boring what's-his-avatar.
A dozen might constitute cruel and unusual punishment for other players in the game.
Playing with them is fine, but there is a definite 3-of limit in a game to maintain sanity.
Then take five. There has to be a just middle between too little and too much, right? Make it so we can only win if our entry is waaaay superior to every other entry.
How about Next Time you not cobble together an entry last minute, & conform to the rules as given? Sound fair?
My online charisma in all honesty pales in comparison to my real life charisma, and I swear I'm not just trying to inflate my own ego.
I'll say that I've had some fantastic conversations with kpaca. Deep ones, funny ones, informative ones. Excellent conversations.
I'll also say that these people trying to emulate kpaca have no idea what goes into his playstyle. I have some, and he works hard and is damn good at what he does.
And, yeah, he's a very valued member of the community.
I'm taking notes on what to improve. You all have good points, although, ZDS, read the custom title.
I am deadly.
A lone person walks through the street in a black trench coat at midnight. The person looks around and listen for a second to the hard sound of the rain that had been going on all day. The person walks along the sidewalk looks to see if anybody is around. The person hears the fluttering of startled birds. The person decides it was just the rain or maybe a cat that startled him. The person turns and walks into an alley. One of those alley that is partially covered with old trash cans, rats, and stray cats. The person sees a big black door that is rusted and looks like it has not been opened for a couple of decades. The person walks over to it and quietly fidgets with the creaky handle until He hears a *click*, he gives a slight smile and opens the door. He takes a look around and notices a sliver of rain and moonlight coming from a small slit in the ceiling at the corner of the room. He sees a small table with a chair at it. Both looking abnormally new against the antique building. He sets the briefcase he had been holding on the table and sits down. He says in a semi-quiet voice " I would have expected a little nicer place for what the items in the case are worth." He hears a dark Italian accented voice that comes from one of those people who have been chain-smoking since they were a teen, " Well it seems our last place was to obvious in that we were almost busted by the copper boys." The man crackles and says " With the company I work out you don't have to worry about that, in fact we added a little insurance, lets say the price snow coke is now 50,000." The dark voice reply's in a booming voice right as the rain starts to get harder " We agreed on 10,000 are you backstabbing me now Chester?" The man replies "think of it as added protection to the deal, remember my company could bust you out faster than you could shoot me, I have the power over you and you pay me the 50,000 now or there is going to be trouble." " Well you see ol' chest, we think you are getting a little to cocky and a little to powerful that's the real reason we chose a place so urr.. rural should we say." The man's heart beat raises as he see's the tips of Thompson machine guns appear in the darkness, The man speaks in a frightened tone, " come on we can work something out ists not like We abhor each other". " Oh Chester we can work something out just not with you hit'em boys." *machine gun fire*. They then hear a ticking sound and open the briefcase, there is a small screen on it with. 00.00.10. The dark voice says " Oh my god it was a set up the whole time. The man in the chair stands up reveals a bullet-proof vest and says " see you later boys and runs out the door as the bomb explodes.
Just a little story I typed off the top of my head :). Also i was wondering if I could become a friend that you could call Neutral players .
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I feel like The Family(and probably the other Clan, to be fair) got a bum deal here. The contests are supposed to be fun, and even if they had their entry done 2 weeks early, it wouldn't change the fact that they just *misunderstood* the rules.
It seems easy enough to 1-100 their cards, roll a die, and remove that #, while giving them a penalty. DQing is just really brutal. I guess the official ruling is already in anyway, just wanted to throw in my 2 cents.
As for mafia playstyles...people really should find their own style and use it. Trying to mimic someone else pretty much never works out. And sometimes, that style isn't that endearing anyway.
Like in the game we're in now(I feel that I can mention this, because it's out of context), AL decided to mimic my playstyle and attack me. And it was a spectacular failure, which could have been a disaster. I can get away with the manner in which I play, because I have learned that I can talk myself out of most situations(I've only been lynched about 8 times in my history of playing, and only maybe 2-3 of those times were mislynches when I was town). This isn't the case for everyone else.
Earlier, I said that mafia often reflects your own personality. But that's not even entirely true. Mafia often reflects what you want your personality to be, even if that is what it's not IRL(gg internet anonymity). So when someone comes along and just tries to mirror someone else, it really doesn't work. Frequently, it's questionable whether it even works for that player. Take Seppel, for example. Seppel(whom I still sometimes think is a gimmick) is frequently accurate in his reads. Everyone knows this. And yet, no one ever listens to him. Because A)he doesn't explain anything, B)he changes his mind 17 times a day, and C)his playstyle is so completely self-centered that it's hard to ever trust him completely. For him, being right is more important than his side winning, and that creeps into his posts sometimes. But he's catty enough that he can usually work around this; someone else trying to play like him would never be able to do so.
I dislike people that are 'habitual lurkers' most of all, though. I honestly just don't get it. Why sign up for a game if you're really not going to participate?(1 paragraph every 3 days is just not participating).
And games have definitely gotten longer. People are just too afraid to pull the trigger and lynch someone, unless they're 99% sure that person is scum. But that just isn't realistic. Rarely does a game go by without a mislynch. It's just part of the game. It still provides information(sometimes, the best information you can get is from voting history on conclusive wagons). Joboman in Anita Blake is a great example of this. I *knew* he was scum, because I was his buddy, and it still took me an obscene amount of effort to get him lynched. It made me laugh sometimes. People are just too worried about 'being wrong'. But being wrong sometimes is just part of mafia. You just have to try to learn from mislynches..learn about yourself, and about other players. But going out of your way to avoid being wrong probably just means that you're not really playing in the first place.
@Kpaca: You're definitely not someone that pops up in my mind when I think of problematic players.
@MH: I think you're still too readable, and too emotional. I have always been of the opinion that emotion is a weakness in the game of mafia, and logic is the true path for a town player. That's not to say that I don't get emotional sometimes..obviously I do. But I try my damnedest to avoid it. You seem to be on the opposite end of the spectrum, and go out of your way to infuse emotion into the game...but it only ever seems to get you into trouble, because A)it's not something you can fake as scum and B)it makes you somewhat easy to mislead.
But you might have a future in writing flavor for a mafia game. Welcome.
Dont like my idea of Harry twilight series? its about wizards that twinkle and rip off their shirts to show their drawn on 6 packs.
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You know what would fix the long games problem? Abilities based upon real life time intervals. Say ... a SK that gets a kill every week or two.
I don't like that sort of idea as it favors speed rushing days. I'm not a fan of speeding through days. A more plausible solution would be to decrease large games, or at least limit the complexity in large games. The controllabe factors that influence the length of a game are size and complexity, so imo if a game is complex it should be smaller, and vice versa.
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Dont like my idea of Harry twilight series? its about wizards that twinkle and rip off their shirts to show their drawn on 6 packs.
"Harry Potter is all about confronting fears, finding inner strength and doing what is right in the face of adversity…Twilight is about how important it is to have a boyfriend."
I dislike people that are 'habitual lurkers' most of all, though. I honestly just don't get it. Why sign up for a game if you're really not going to participate?(1 paragraph every 3 days is just not participating).
Like in the game we're in now(I feel that I can mention this, because it's out of context), AL decided to mimic my playstyle and attack me. And it was a spectacular failure, which could have been a disaster.
You give yourself too much credit. I'm always that aggressive. Just read Basic 30 or Rax's game. The gambit failed because I let it fail.
I dislike people that are 'habitual lurkers' most of all, though. I honestly just don't get it. Why sign up for a game if you're really not going to participate?(1 paragraph every 3 days is just not participating).
This is my main problem. Some people can be scum, but it's impossible to make cases on them when they make short, infrequent posts all the time. I guess it's a good scum tactic, but it's not really playing the game. There is supposed to be a sort of give-and-take approach to Mafia, and when one side literally posts nothing, it's just boring.
Then take five. There has to be a just middle between too little and too much, right? Make it so we can only win if our entry is waaaay superior to every other entry.
---
On the subject of playstyles, it saddens me that poor players with peculiar playstyles are so often hated, and so much more than poor players with generic playstyles. I'll take a dozen Tildes and Vezokpirakas any day over any forgettable and boring what's-his-avatar.
Why does it feel like you're talking to me with "boring what's-his-avatar"? I try to be good, my recent games have been kind of awful, but that's because I'm no longer having infinite free time. Perhaps I should get an avatar, would that make me more memorable?
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You definitely got that online charisma. Do you consider yourself charismatic IRL? just curious
My online charisma in all honesty pales in comparison to my real life charisma, and I swear I'm not just trying to inflate my own ego.
I should, that is a problem for me when I`m town.
Hrmm.
I think I will work on changing that.
I have notes that I keep but I prefer not to let others know that as I get better reactions from players.
I can`t imagine people trying to play that style and not have at least notes in their head.
also I think my favorite part about that type of playstyle is that it puts you in the gray area and you are less likely to be influenced by your alignment.
I`m gonna try and beef up my experience and analysis but that does take time.
I have to say I like playing with people who make me enjoy the game.
some people just suck the fun out of it and I hate that.
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
Actually you weren't one of the people I was thinking about. Your playstyle annoys me but I think you're a good player. When you're town you have very good reads (seems like they're mainly gut?), and when you're scum the town generally doesn't look twice at you until it's too late.
The people I'm thinking about are purely distractions from the game, whatever their alignment and contribute nothing to the game aside from being a warm body.
Ria, I respect your opinion but I don't think 'trust me' really cuts it here.
Nobody's saying we don't deserve to be punished here. Obviously a line in the sand needs to be drawn somewhere. But saying that because we screwed up on a card we're out of the contest as opposed to losing a point or two...well that just seems a bit much.
Haha, that's chill. It's natural life skills like that which get you places.
Not every contest is as easy as "oh, add a basic land & take a point off" - what it is & has been my job is to make as level a playing field for these extremely varied contests. It's not as easy as 'take a point'.
Playing with them is fine, but there is a definite 3-of limit in a game to maintain sanity.
Updated: 05/24/11
[The Family]
I'll say that I've had some fantastic conversations with kpaca. Deep ones, funny ones, informative ones. Excellent conversations.
I'll also say that these people trying to emulate kpaca have no idea what goes into his playstyle. I have some, and he works hard and is damn good at what he does.
And, yeah, he's a very valued member of the community.
I'm taking notes on what to improve. You all have good points, although, ZDS, read the custom title.
I am deadly.
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
Um.
This kind of attitude is uncalled for.
In fact I would say this kind of attitude is peoples biggest problem with this site.
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
http://www.dragonhighlander.net/rules.php
If you Click on the construction link, read rule #5:
I directly posted this link, which are the standard EDH Rules, if you choose not to read them, or ignore them, or its a mistake that is not our fault.
I talked to the other mods about a different penalty, and I was told the DQ stays. I am sorry, but this is how it is, as much as it sucks.
I really am done discussing this.
Peace, yo.
Just a little story I typed off the top of my head :). Also i was wondering if I could become a friend that you could call Neutral players .
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wwab is the best mafia player ever
Want to trade with me?
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=294434
I call dibs on Attempted Serial Killer.
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
But you might have a future in writing flavor for a mafia game. Welcome.
It seems easy enough to 1-100 their cards, roll a die, and remove that #, while giving them a penalty. DQing is just really brutal. I guess the official ruling is already in anyway, just wanted to throw in my 2 cents.
As for mafia playstyles...people really should find their own style and use it. Trying to mimic someone else pretty much never works out. And sometimes, that style isn't that endearing anyway.
Like in the game we're in now(I feel that I can mention this, because it's out of context), AL decided to mimic my playstyle and attack me. And it was a spectacular failure, which could have been a disaster. I can get away with the manner in which I play, because I have learned that I can talk myself out of most situations(I've only been lynched about 8 times in my history of playing, and only maybe 2-3 of those times were mislynches when I was town). This isn't the case for everyone else.
Earlier, I said that mafia often reflects your own personality. But that's not even entirely true. Mafia often reflects what you want your personality to be, even if that is what it's not IRL(gg internet anonymity). So when someone comes along and just tries to mirror someone else, it really doesn't work. Frequently, it's questionable whether it even works for that player. Take Seppel, for example. Seppel(whom I still sometimes think is a gimmick) is frequently accurate in his reads. Everyone knows this. And yet, no one ever listens to him. Because A)he doesn't explain anything, B)he changes his mind 17 times a day, and C)his playstyle is so completely self-centered that it's hard to ever trust him completely. For him, being right is more important than his side winning, and that creeps into his posts sometimes. But he's catty enough that he can usually work around this; someone else trying to play like him would never be able to do so.
I dislike people that are 'habitual lurkers' most of all, though. I honestly just don't get it. Why sign up for a game if you're really not going to participate?(1 paragraph every 3 days is just not participating).
And games have definitely gotten longer. People are just too afraid to pull the trigger and lynch someone, unless they're 99% sure that person is scum. But that just isn't realistic. Rarely does a game go by without a mislynch. It's just part of the game. It still provides information(sometimes, the best information you can get is from voting history on conclusive wagons). Joboman in Anita Blake is a great example of this. I *knew* he was scum, because I was his buddy, and it still took me an obscene amount of effort to get him lynched. It made me laugh sometimes. People are just too worried about 'being wrong'. But being wrong sometimes is just part of mafia. You just have to try to learn from mislynches..learn about yourself, and about other players. But going out of your way to avoid being wrong probably just means that you're not really playing in the first place.
@Kpaca: You're definitely not someone that pops up in my mind when I think of problematic players.
@MH: I think you're still too readable, and too emotional. I have always been of the opinion that emotion is a weakness in the game of mafia, and logic is the true path for a town player. That's not to say that I don't get emotional sometimes..obviously I do. But I try my damnedest to avoid it. You seem to be on the opposite end of the spectrum, and go out of your way to infuse emotion into the game...but it only ever seems to get you into trouble, because A)it's not something you can fake as scum and B)it makes you somewhat easy to mislead.
EDIT: I reserve the right to use this idea.
Dont like my idea of Harry twilight series? its about wizards that twinkle and rip off their shirts to show their drawn on 6 packs.
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wwab is the best mafia player ever
Want to trade with me?
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=294434
I don't like that sort of idea as it favors speed rushing days. I'm not a fan of speeding through days. A more plausible solution would be to decrease large games, or at least limit the complexity in large games. The controllabe factors that influence the length of a game are size and complexity, so imo if a game is complex it should be smaller, and vice versa.
"Harry Potter is all about confronting fears, finding inner strength and doing what is right in the face of adversity…Twilight is about how important it is to have a boyfriend."
The problem is, you offer constructive criticism and then a bunch of people start yelling "Coaching!!!!" at you.
/barn
Or deadlines.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
You give yourself too much credit. I'm always that aggressive. Just read Basic 30 or Rax's game. The gambit failed because I let it fail.
This is my main problem. Some people can be scum, but it's impossible to make cases on them when they make short, infrequent posts all the time. I guess it's a good scum tactic, but it's not really playing the game. There is supposed to be a sort of give-and-take approach to Mafia, and when one side literally posts nothing, it's just boring.
Why does it feel like you're talking to me with "boring what's-his-avatar"? I try to be good, my recent games have been kind of awful, but that's because I'm no longer having infinite free time. Perhaps I should get an avatar, would that make me more memorable?