So....big changes are a comin' on the horizon! Most everything I can see being very easy to deal with...hell even the lack of mana burn will be tolerable. But the combat step is going to cause a lot of crap in the first few PTQ's. The crappy thing is it comes right in the middle of the PTQ Austin season. The ones going on now will have combat happiness and the ones in August and the end of July will not. Going to be a very bumpy transition I think. There will be lots of confusion among most, but the problem will come to those that really get it early and then enforce it on those that miss time the new steps and phases. Some want to win at any cost and I think this is going to piss of new comers to the PTQ scene. I already deal with people that call "Judge" if the card under the one I'm drawing slides more than a centimeter. Anything to get a win.
Anyway...I'm happy with some of the new cards though. I think it's good that cards like Mogg Fanatic are going back to their original functionality before the stack. I think it's smart to remove that stack from combat...but the damage prevention phase is completely removed.
This next one's for Nick....I GOTTA POOP SUMFIN' TERRIBLE! :D:D
lurkyeds: Sup teefo!;)
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"Talkin outta turn....That's a paddlin'. Starin' at my sandals....That's a paddlin'. Paddlin' the school canoe....You better believe that's a paddlin'!" --Jasper
They wrote a whole article, but honestly, everything was summed up in the second half of the first paragraph:
we opened up everything about how we make Magic cards to scrutiny in an attempt to make that set, and the game as a whole, more accessible.
Translation:
"We dumbed the game down as much as humanly possible in order to try and draw the younger crowd, so we can be YuGiOh 2.0."
Further reading:
To figure out exactly where the problems were, we got into the mind of the casual player—not the player knee-deep in regular sanctioned play or Magic Online, but rather the one who plays our game at home, at school, or at the small local shop. We drew upon our own experiences and those of our co-workers. We ran focus tests. We went out in the field and played against such players—players who love, love, love Magic but don't have the need or desire to devote themselves to learning all the ins and outs of the rules.
I don't even know how to respond to this. Especially the very end. I mean..who cares about the rules, right? All that really matters is sitting at your kitchen table beating your buddies with Krosan Cloudscraper all day. SUPER CASH GRAB GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
The Reality: Some players are confused by the subtle difference between "play" and "put into play." The name "in-play zone" breaks the metaphor the rest of the game tries to establish. The Fix: The in-play zone is renamed the "battlefield," which brings it in line with other flavorful zone names like "graveyard" and "library." Permanents now "enter the battlefield" or are "put onto the battlefield" as opposed to "come into play" or "put into play."
Yes. Because there is a HUGE difference between 'play' and 'put into play' and 'enter the battlefield' and 'put onto the battlefield'. Pffft. I'm pretty sure the latter is more confusing, not less so. And I'm very sure that it's completely gay.
I read the rest, but it's all too annoying and pointless to bother with any further.
The dumbing down aspect...fine...I get that. It makes sense to do something like to bring in younger players. I still want intelligent players though. The part that bothered me most about the article, and you touched on it up there Nick, is that they went to the casual crowd! The crowd that buys the stuff here and there when they have a little extra cash floating around their pockets and the store is in the same plaza as the CVS or grocery store. These are also the same players that leave after 6-8 months. The ones who devote the time and money into it are the competitive players.
The wording changes are subtle and expected, honestly. The combat crap is quite the kick!
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"Talkin outta turn....That's a paddlin'. Starin' at my sandals....That's a paddlin'. Paddlin' the school canoe....You better believe that's a paddlin'!" --Jasper
I thought it was ironic that they will no longer use the term 'Removed from game'. Instead they'll call it 'Exiled'. Then you'll have to explain what it does. Which is put the card into a special zone. Which everyone will just refer to as..removed from the game.
..
So much of it just seems utterly stupid. And the combat part is the absolute worst idea I can concieve of. So many cards that were solid, staple cards are practically terrible now. Siege Gang Commander? Still decent, but nothing like he used to be. Same goes for Nantuko Husk. But then there are cards like Mogg Fanatic, and Sakura Tribe-Elder. Guys that used to be staple cards but are now complete and utter trash.
Ironically, all of this makes Jitte alot better than it was before. Stupid card.
On a really basic level, I understand why they did all of this. I played way, way back in the day when casting Unsummon on your guy before combat was over meant that he dealt no combat damage. And to be fair, that makes sense on some level. But it seems like there could have been SOME kind of compromise. I can (sort of) understand if they were like 'from now on, if your creature leaves combat before combat damage resolves, it neither deals nor receives combat damage'. But to just eliminate combat damage from interacting with the stack seems unthinkably awful.
I also hate the 'Blocker Order' thing. It feels like all this does is makes attacking that much harder, and gives too much control over combat to the person on defense..which is not how it should be. When you're attacking, you are putting yourself at risk by turning your guys sideways(leaving yourself vulnerable to being attacked, etc). You should have some kind of priority/upperhand. That's how it worked before. You could put combat damage on the stack, content that, at the worst, even if you couldn't save your 3/3 with a pump, you could make your opponent trade his 3/3 for yours. Now what? You just never play pumps because they might have a burn spell? It's stupid, it removes a tremendous amount of the intellect and critical thinking aspect of Magic.
I know alot of people hate 'The Battlefield', and while it's obviously silly, it's also only cosmetic. So..whatever to that. I would take a million of those changes if it meant they didn't mess up the game itself.
I'm not even sure why I care so much since I don't play, it's just so insulting, as a formerly competitive/tournament player, to see all of this happening. It furthers my feeling that competitive Magic is slowly being phased out/minimalized, and they're just trying to appeal as much as possible to people that will continually dump money on the game without actually caring about it.
Rian is probably right on that count. It is casual players that buy boxes upon boxes of cards for no real reason other than to make a million 'fun' decks. Competitive players just win packs/trade/etc, they contribute very little to Magic: The Gathering CashGrab financially. At least, not as far as Hasbro is concerned, considering that they don't profit off of singles sales, etc. Of course, they tried to for awhile, with their WotC stores. Shockingly, those didn't succeed either.
Glugh... I've been in training classes and meetings ALL DAY/NIGHT. I left home at 6am and just got back at 9:20pm.
I'm sure I'll have lots to say about the rules changes once I read them. I printed off all the changes this morning, thinking I'd have a chance to read them during the meetings, but I didn't. I agree with Cyan that I could live with a million cosmetic changes (such as "Battlefield" & "Exile") if they would have just left the rules alone.
*Dux installs his foil playsets of STE's, Fanatic's and Baloth's on his bicycle spokes for poppers*
Oh the horror.. ..Why God, why...?
.
.
EDS - Ria and JJ need to update their Called sigy links = they go to the old thread.
.
.
EDS2 - Sux ..been gone all day and come home to rejection/loneliness. *Curls up in fetal position facing a corner*
.
.
So yeah...I was going through my control panel updating my link and I noticed that I got yellow carded for spam on our last thread from Ria!!!
Ahh well....sex is sex..!
I'm old school...I learned the game old school style. I like the fact that a guy can't deal his damage then disappear in a cloud of smoke for further gain. What I don't like is that all advnatage is gained by the defending player. I do like that it weakens Putrid Leech...that card is a silly common. I also like that Exalted doesn't go on the stack. I don't like that they made Lifelink and Deathtouch static abilities.
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"Talkin outta turn....That's a paddlin'. Starin' at my sandals....That's a paddlin'. Paddlin' the school canoe....You better believe that's a paddlin'!" --Jasper
Really? I'm ok with all that, now, but that change seemed on the level to begin with.
The only thing I still care about is mana burn. Seems weird to pull it when flavour is all the rage. . . although WotC's naive semantic argument that permanents now "enter the battlefield" / are "put onto the battlefield" as opposed to "come into play" / "put into play." will save any n00bs any confusion makes me chuckle. They solved nothing there, + even admit it in the article. Way to eat up precious textbox real estate, dorks
I'm almost positive you responded to that warning in-thread, jj. I know for a fact it sent a pm to your inbox, it does it automagically. . . you jus' forgot how much I love you.
These big magical events sure do brings the FREAKS out of the woodwork. I've seen more random threads started in random places than I ever have.
Friend of mine says to check out Black Milk's Tronic, so I am.
I did read that, but Zvi is a goofbag either way, + he even admits it backhandedly in that article. Scroll to the very last paragraph + violá; "The obvious disclaimer is that of course I have not played with the new rules or tried to explain them so all of this is speculative and could prove to be wrong." You put that kind of thing up front.
When you're a mouthpiece for a thing, it is irresponsible to go off without some money to put behind your mouth. Even I shuffled up a bit to check it out. It takes all of half an hour to do it with whatever decks anyone is bound to have laying about.
I liked Randy Buehler's blog, though it has more to say about the shortcomings of Alara Block than the rules changes.
Now, granted, I started playing pre-6th edition, so this is just kind of a nostalgic blend for me (also I got blown out by combat damage on the stack at my last draft, so nya etc).
Quote from Floral Spuzzem @GG »
Let's look at two common combat situations.
1) We have 3/3s hitting each other. I have an Inicinerate, you have a Giant Growth. We're both fine with a trade, but value a 3/3 more highly than the spells.
2) My 3/3 is double blocked by your 2 2/2s. One of us has an Inicinerate, the other has a Giant Growth. Attacker wants to 2-for-1 the defender with his trick. Defender is fine with trading a 2/2 for the 3/3, but is also interested in using his trick to screw over the attacker.
Old Rules:
1) Damage goes on stack, you GG, I Incinerate in response. Result: 2 for 2, no blowout.
2a) I have Incinerate, you have GG. I Incinerate one of your dudes before damage. You GG it in response (or GG the other one, same result.) Result: 2 for 2, advantage to the defender, no blowout.
2b) I have GG, you have Incinerate. I play GG before damage. You Incinerate in response. Result: 2 for 1, I got blown out.
New Rules:
1) I pass priority, you GG, I Incinerate in response. Result: 2 for 1, you got blown out.
2a, 2b) Exactly the same thing happens as in the old rules.
I could probably also come up with a scenario where the new rules don't allow for a blowout, while the old ones do (I'm pretty sure it involves bounce.)
The point is that reading your opponent is just as important as it was. It's just that now you usually have to play around removal more (because it now trumps creature pump more often), and around bounce less. Combat decisions are just as hard, it's just that the "fulcrum" of decision has shifted towards the decision to attack/block, and away from the Combat Damage step.
What's up ECP. Yeah...I agree with that assessment up there. It is really going to require a shift in the combat phase toward opening yourself up like that. Timing is really going to be an issue, especially with pump effects and targeting spells.
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"Talkin outta turn....That's a paddlin'. Starin' at my sandals....That's a paddlin'. Paddlin' the school canoe....You better believe that's a paddlin'!" --Jasper
The only really important difference in this rules change that I can find is with sorcery-speed damage-based sweepers like Pyroclasm or pump dudes like Scion of Oona vs. not being able to spread out damage. . . + I'm going to miss stealing all my group's untapped lands to reset the board, casting draw 7s + Time Walks + Mirari'ing them until nobody has a deck waaay more than that situational post-combat Pyro to clear the board :monty:
i'm posting this from my phone so i can't quote jj's post way up there... just wanted to say that, from what i can glean, exalted triggers still use the stack. they didn't change anything on that end.
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Now playing Transformers: Legends. 27-time top tier finisher and admin of the TFL Wikia site.
Not going to lie to you, when you said black milk, I thought that was weird Australian lingo for Chocolate Milk. Then surprise! It's a hip hop artist dude.
So.........saw "Drag me to Hell" last night. I won't spoil it for anyone, but I suggest if anyone is going to watch it in theaters, you should first for the full experience.
@Dux: That question was serious. You have a company limo?
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Official Moderator of The [Gutter]
Think the MtgStaff is just swell? Join today! You too can be involved in an 8 year grudge and delete nearly 9000 of kpaca's posts!
Not going to lie to you, when you said black milk, I thought that was weird Australian lingo for Chocolate Milk. Then surprise! It's a hip hop artist dude.
Na, weird Oz lingo for chocolate milk is "iced coffee" . . . yeah, bull ****, mate. It's CHOCOLATE MILK. All the blokes drink it, goes with footy + roadwork, apparently.
This is hilarious with regards to the rules update/history of magical cards.
It is really weird when you haven't listened to music through headphones in a long time + suddenly a song does some hard stereo panning, + you've never noticed before, despite listening to it 1,000 times @_@
OMFG! A rare Diggy sighting! I can't believe my eyes!
*Dux rips his eyeballs out*
Quote from Diggy »
I dunno, maybs i'll read, chances are i'll be off again before i get the chance. Stay tuned for the decision on that one.
This doesn't sound promising. ...rather dissapointed Dig, hopefully you'll be active.
kpimp'sta - Yeah, we have a company limo. Our logo is a little talking car, which looks a lot like a PT Cruiser. So we have 4x PT Cruiser's that are being painted up with the logo and location information’s on them w/ a smiley face in the front. One is a limo which I have been riding around in as Dad drives it to and from work. It's fun to sit back there, roll down the windows and be stared at in rush hour traffic. Of course once it is painted and has the logo on it, it won't be so cool. We mainly got the limo for promotional things, like parades …and, as with the other cars, a shuttle service for our customers.
Dux bought the entire Underworld trilogy and is going to try to watch it tonight. ..But then what will I do tomorrow night.. Humm..
EDS - Dux's been in a very bad mood all day ..very angry and idk why ..which makes me even mader.
..Perhaps is from working 25 of the last 34 hours.
..
.
.
"Talkin outta turn....That's a paddlin'. Starin' at my sandals....That's a paddlin'. Paddlin' the school canoe....You better believe that's a paddlin'!" --Jasper
I'm old school...I learned the game old school style. I like the fact that a guy can't deal his damage then disappear in a cloud of smoke for further gain. What I don't like is that all advnatage is gained by the defending player. I do like that it weakens Putrid Leech...that card is a silly common. I also like that Exalted doesn't go on the stack. I don't like that they made Lifelink and Deathtouch static abilities.
It ruins the story that Mogg Fanatics picture shows he battles, then before he dies he blows that bomb and takes another dude with him, now he just a random suicide bomber who's bomb malfunctions mid war.
Na, weird Oz lingo for chocolate milk is "iced coffee" . . . yeah, bull ****, mate. It's CHOCOLATE MILK. All the blokes drink it, goes with footy + roadwork, apparently.
I'm quite fond of french vanilla cappuccino
But yes Iced Coffee is the bomb, are you saying otherwise ria
edit: for dem americans who don't know what we're on about, we have a range of iced flavoured milks in a million diff flavours, I don't really drink hot cappuccinos.
But yes Iced Coffee is the bomb, are you saying otherwise ria
edit: for dem americans who don't know what we're on about, we have a range of iced flavoured milks in a million diff flavours, I don't really drink hot cappuccinos.
Yeah, there's nothing weird about grown men skulling choc milk by the half-liter
KILL THEM ALL, JJ, PUT THEM DOWN LIKE THE SICK DOGS THEY ARE :symg::symr::symb:
Yeah, there's nothing weird about grown men skulling choc milk by the half-liter
I don't do it personally but I do know a guy that drinks at least 3 litres of the stuff A DAY. His teeth are almost rotted to the core, its actually quite disgusting
Nice pics Teefo! I feel like playing more games now! I gotta get intouch with the other clanies!:D
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"Talkin outta turn....That's a paddlin'. Starin' at my sandals....That's a paddlin'. Paddlin' the school canoe....You better believe that's a paddlin'!" --Jasper
nothing to see here
I LIKE CHICKS!
So Long TBGTE
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@Rule Changes: I'm glad that I was actually right when I quit back in Mirrodin. Magic is getting stupid.
Had a good night tonight: Played games, had some drinks, got asked out on a date by a girl (backwards, but still awesome).
Anyway...I'm happy with some of the new cards though. I think it's good that cards like Mogg Fanatic are going back to their original functionality before the stack. I think it's smart to remove that stack from combat...but the damage prevention phase is completely removed.
This next one's for Nick....I GOTTA POOP SUMFIN' TERRIBLE! :D:D
lurkyeds: Sup teefo!;)
They wrote a whole article, but honestly, everything was summed up in the second half of the first paragraph:
Translation:
"We dumbed the game down as much as humanly possible in order to try and draw the younger crowd, so we can be YuGiOh 2.0."
Further reading:
I don't even know how to respond to this. Especially the very end. I mean..who cares about the rules, right? All that really matters is sitting at your kitchen table beating your buddies with Krosan Cloudscraper all day. SUPER CASH GRAB GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Yes. Because there is a HUGE difference between 'play' and 'put into play' and 'enter the battlefield' and 'put onto the battlefield'. Pffft. I'm pretty sure the latter is more confusing, not less so. And I'm very sure that it's completely gay.
I read the rest, but it's all too annoying and pointless to bother with any further.
The wording changes are subtle and expected, honestly. The combat crap is quite the kick!
..
So much of it just seems utterly stupid. And the combat part is the absolute worst idea I can concieve of. So many cards that were solid, staple cards are practically terrible now. Siege Gang Commander? Still decent, but nothing like he used to be. Same goes for Nantuko Husk. But then there are cards like Mogg Fanatic, and Sakura Tribe-Elder. Guys that used to be staple cards but are now complete and utter trash.
Ironically, all of this makes Jitte alot better than it was before. Stupid card.
On a really basic level, I understand why they did all of this. I played way, way back in the day when casting Unsummon on your guy before combat was over meant that he dealt no combat damage. And to be fair, that makes sense on some level. But it seems like there could have been SOME kind of compromise. I can (sort of) understand if they were like 'from now on, if your creature leaves combat before combat damage resolves, it neither deals nor receives combat damage'. But to just eliminate combat damage from interacting with the stack seems unthinkably awful.
I also hate the 'Blocker Order' thing. It feels like all this does is makes attacking that much harder, and gives too much control over combat to the person on defense..which is not how it should be. When you're attacking, you are putting yourself at risk by turning your guys sideways(leaving yourself vulnerable to being attacked, etc). You should have some kind of priority/upperhand. That's how it worked before. You could put combat damage on the stack, content that, at the worst, even if you couldn't save your 3/3 with a pump, you could make your opponent trade his 3/3 for yours. Now what? You just never play pumps because they might have a burn spell? It's stupid, it removes a tremendous amount of the intellect and critical thinking aspect of Magic.
I know alot of people hate 'The Battlefield', and while it's obviously silly, it's also only cosmetic. So..whatever to that. I would take a million of those changes if it meant they didn't mess up the game itself.
I'm not even sure why I care so much since I don't play, it's just so insulting, as a formerly competitive/tournament player, to see all of this happening. It furthers my feeling that competitive Magic is slowly being phased out/minimalized, and they're just trying to appeal as much as possible to people that will continually dump money on the game without actually caring about it.
Glugh... I've been in training classes and meetings ALL DAY/NIGHT. I left home at 6am and just got back at 9:20pm.
I'm sure I'll have lots to say about the rules changes once I read them. I printed off all the changes this morning, thinking I'd have a chance to read them during the meetings, but I didn't. I agree with Cyan that I could live with a million cosmetic changes (such as "Battlefield" & "Exile") if they would have just left the rules alone.
*Dux installs his foil playsets of STE's, Fanatic's and Baloth's on his bicycle spokes for poppers*
Oh the horror.. ..Why God, why...?
.
.
EDS - Ria and JJ need to update their Called sigy links = they go to the old thread.
.
.
EDS2 - Sux ..been gone all day and come home to rejection/loneliness. *Curls up in fetal position facing a corner*
.
.
Homebrew is creating Magic.
Are you a pilot or a creator??
Ahh well....sex is sex..!
I'm old school...I learned the game old school style. I like the fact that a guy can't deal his damage then disappear in a cloud of smoke for further gain. What I don't like is that all advnatage is gained by the defending player. I do like that it weakens Putrid Leech...that card is a silly common. I also like that Exalted doesn't go on the stack. I don't like that they made Lifelink and Deathtouch static abilities.
The only thing I still care about is mana burn. Seems weird to pull it when flavour is all the rage. . . although WotC's naive semantic argument that permanents now "enter the battlefield" / are "put onto the battlefield" as opposed to "come into play" / "put into play." will save any n00bs any confusion makes me chuckle. They solved nothing there, + even admit it in the article. Way to eat up precious textbox real estate, dorks
I'm almost positive you responded to that warning in-thread, jj. I know for a fact it sent a pm to your inbox, it does it automagically. . . you jus' forgot how much I love you.
These big magical events sure do brings the FREAKS out of the woodwork. I've seen more random threads started in random places than I ever have.
Friend of mine says to check out Black Milk's Tronic, so I am.
*waves to Elvish Crack Piper*
You posted over on izzet about the change so I figured I'd come over see other comments on the topic.
I suppose I am behind a couple of the angry threads that have floated around the forums lately
You guys seen http://www.top8magic.com/2009/06/ruined-forever-the-magic-2010-rules-changes-by-zvi-mowshowitz/ ? Very well put together
When you're a mouthpiece for a thing, it is irresponsible to go off without some money to put behind your mouth. Even I shuffled up a bit to check it out. It takes all of half an hour to do it with whatever decks anyone is bound to have laying about.
I liked Randy Buehler's blog, though it has more to say about the shortcomings of Alara Block than the rules changes.
Now, granted, I started playing pre-6th edition, so this is just kind of a nostalgic blend for me (also I got blown out by combat damage on the stack at my last draft, so nya etc).
The MirroCube - 420 card Mirrodin themed cube
And if I've offended you, I'm sorry, but maybe you need to be offended. But here's my apology and one more thing...
In other news, I am very much enjoying this Black Milk. Hella musical, crazy lyrical without being a thug. I'm a softy for keyboard shenanigans + live drums, though
Not going to lie to you, when you said black milk, I thought that was weird Australian lingo for Chocolate Milk. Then surprise! It's a hip hop artist dude.
So.........saw "Drag me to Hell" last night. I won't spoil it for anyone, but I suggest if anyone is going to watch it in theaters, you should first for the full experience.
@Dux: That question was serious. You have a company limo?
This is hilarious with regards to the rules update/history of magical cards.
It is really weird when you haven't listened to music through headphones in a long time + suddenly a song does some hard stereo panning, + you've never noticed before, despite listening to it 1,000 times @_@
*Dux rips his eyeballs out*
This doesn't sound promising. ...rather dissapointed Dig, hopefully you'll be active.
kpimp'sta - Yeah, we have a company limo. Our logo is a little talking car, which looks a lot like a PT Cruiser. So we have 4x PT Cruiser's that are being painted up with the logo and location information’s on them w/ a smiley face in the front. One is a limo which I have been riding around in as Dad drives it to and from work. It's fun to sit back there, roll down the windows and be stared at in rush hour traffic. Of course once it is painted and has the logo on it, it won't be so cool. We mainly got the limo for promotional things, like parades …and, as with the other cars, a shuttle service for our customers.
Dux bought the entire Underworld trilogy and is going to try to watch it tonight. ..But then what will I do tomorrow night.. Humm..
EDS - Dux's been in a very bad mood all day ..very angry and idk why ..which makes me even mader.
..Perhaps is from working 25 of the last 34 hours.
..
.
.
Homebrew is creating Magic.
Are you a pilot or a creator??
jj will be back!
Isn't that in portland or vancouver or something?
It ruins the story that Mogg Fanatics picture shows he battles, then before he dies he blows that bomb and takes another dude with him, now he just a random suicide bomber who's bomb malfunctions mid war.
I'm quite fond of french vanilla cappuccino
But yes Iced Coffee is the bomb, are you saying otherwise ria
edit: for dem americans who don't know what we're on about, we have a range of iced flavoured milks in a million diff flavours, I don't really drink hot cappuccinos.
eds2: I missed this.
Way to go jinkies!
KILL THEM ALL, JJ, PUT THEM DOWN LIKE THE SICK DOGS THEY ARE :symg::symr::symb:
I don't do it personally but I do know a guy that drinks at least 3 litres of the stuff A DAY. His teeth are almost rotted to the core, its actually quite disgusting
edsy: Something like this. (it's disgusting)
http://www.mostlydead.com/images/DD-KreeperFXFangs.jpg