Uh huh, it's the same system, Wamyc mein Freund, but it's been going through a lot of development. So it's quite different now, but the info I sent you before should still let you get a feel for it.
I'm planning on some kind of document or PDF that should cover the following things:
1. The basic mechanics, of course. This includes all the rules for play, lists of powers, feats, skills, and stunts.
2. An optional class system. I'm imagining three main game "settings." One is where there is no strict class setup except for a very, very loose one, in which most things are available to everyone just with variation in how easy it is for a given character to have a particular kind of thing. The other extreme is a defined set of classes that work like templates, each with class powers, special feats or bonuses that are granted based on class, and a set of stunt paths for each class. The medium option is where you can mix the two types and have some characters using a class and some not using one, but still allowing characters to "opt out" of following a class's preset path if they want to mix it up a little (kind of like easy multiclassing).
3. A section on player guidelines, including a "How to Build the Character You Want" sort of thing. Notes for what makes an appropriate stunt, what the powers are good for accomplishing, benchmarks and rules of thumb, modifiers and optional rules, and examples of how to accomplish specific archetypes would all be included. If you're wondering, "How can I make a guy that can turn into a wolf, but only at night?", or "How do I make someone whose magic gets really powerful when she's angry?", I'd like this section to be able to give you helpful answers.
4. A section on Narrator/GM guidelines. Advice on stuff like how to tailor rules to fit a genre (like high fantasy or superhero), how to quickly customize or invent new powers, optional rules on stuff like money and gear, all that would go in this section. I'll probably need a lot of help and input for this part.
5. Examples. A section full of 'em, including premade monsters and baddies, premade characters, variant classes and powers, and so on.
This will all take a long time to do, and I'm still working on the mechanics. It'd be fun, I think, to check it with others as I go, getting feedback and almost making it a kind of group project.
On another note, I'm sad to see people go and activity decline, but I also have to agree that a lot of the discussion about 4th Edition has been kind of thicket-y, not to mention very much focused on arguments and criticisms and defenses.
Really, D&D seemed to be the focus of this clan even before 4th. Some people have voiced involvement or interest in White Wolf, M&M, not to mention video games, but D&D seems to be what gets talked about the most. And even then, it usually isn't D&D game recaps or anything, more like D&D gamer culture. Those are fine topics, but it is true that they dominate somewhat more than other ones.
A few quick questions (which reveal some assumptions I think I'm incorrectly making about your system):
1) what's the basic mechanic restricting min-maxing problems and loading up on one thing in a classless system? I'm not saying there's an inherent problem with an open d20 system but I'm curious if you envisioned any systemic oversights to keep the players balanced. (like the standard way that the cost to raise something is X times Y, where X is the rank you're raising it to)
2) So it's settingless? I rember the game (Rise I beleive) being a renaissance ghost/gothic game.
3) And the game is a setting shell that gives players/DMs the tools to design feats/powers/whathaveyou or are there stock abilies in the game?
No More Heroes is an excellent game. the story is weird and wonky, but the combat controls are definitely great. It's not an incredibly difficult game, but it's very fun.
I'm afraid that I'm not going anywhere. I'm gonna stay right here in Natural 20, you are all stuck with me, :-p.
I might pick it up. However, as much as I would like to, my list of must gets for video games keeps growing while my time to play does not. I now have to add Ninja Gaiden II, milon's secret castle, N64 paper mario, and dig dug to the list.
A few quick questions (which reveal some assumptions I think I'm incorrectly making about your system):
1) what's the basic mechanic restricting min-maxing problems and loading up on one thing in a classless system? I'm not saying there's an inherent problem with an open d20 system but I'm curious if you envisioned any systemic oversights to keep the players balanced. (like the standard way that the cost to raise something is X times Y, where X is the rank you're raising it to)
2) So it's settingless? I rember the game (Rise I beleive) being a renaissance ghost/gothic game.
3) And the game is a setting shell that gives players/DMs the tools to design feats/powers/whathaveyou or are there stock abilies in the game?
4) What does "thickety" mean?
I might pick it up. However, as much as I would like to, my list of must gets for video games keeps growing while my time to play does not. I now have to add Ninja Gaiden II, milon's secret castle, N64 paper mario, and dig dug to the list.
I can answer a few of these.
1. Character options in and of themselves are not really scaling for the most part, since they depend on your level bonus to your various attributes. You select an option once, and add further applications to an option as you progress. For an idea of how the power system really functions, a general idea can be gleaned from my d20 mod game Rise: Cogito, which uses a power system that is directly derived from the same source. A character can devote themselves entirely to doing one thing really well, and that's fine because the system doesn't scale- the numbers don't continue to climb higher and higher, it is just that the ability to perform tasks within the predetermined rules of an ability become easier as you focus, and you gain more flexible uses.
Much of the system is still based in feats, and in feat trees. Nothing really stops a character from focusing on "loading up", because that's a perfectly viable build choice for a character. Stunts themselves are purchased, but again, they don't scale. For example, a character with the Eldritch Power power can take a stunt for a small amount of stunt points to gain the Eldritch Blast power. If they wanted to, they could continue adding points to this to further develop that Eldritch Blast stunt. Does it make the Eldritch Blast more powerful? Marginally, yes, but it's always at cost. However, most of the increases to Eldritch Blast will give it other applications.
For example, a character of mine who is fairly focused on her Eldritch Blast has devised ways to use it in a lot of different ways- she can use it as a blast, as an area of effect, she can attach uses of other powers to it, she can make a blast with increased severity, she can make a blast that bypasses defense easier, and other uses. Each of these uses required point investments, and arguably her blast is more powerful than say, someone who also has the same Eldritch Blast but chose to pick up a bit of everything rather than being a specialist. However, at no point could I just throw a bunch of points into her blast and make it do huge amounts of damage, since much of what determines the damage output is based in level, anyway. While a specialized character has a lot of flexibility with one or two options, a non-specialized character has a lot of options in general, and the efficiency of both of these characters is determined primarily by the current level of the party, as opposed to by point expenditure.
I've been told it's very VERY hard to break True20 system, and having played it for over a year now, I'm very much inclined to agree. It just... doesn't have the same elements as D&D. I really can't explain why that is, it just seems to be the case. It's a very high powered system, but there never seems to be an issue with it. Since it's less gamist, game balance seems less important, and yet you never feel like you are just the Xander next to anyone else, because so much of the game is oriented around story telling and is as focused on social situations, problem solving, and skill challenges as it is on combat.
Another thing to remember that the only point-buy elements in the game are in regards to your ability scores (which follow the same conventions and rules as d20), and your stunts. Powers- which range from supernatural abilities to class feature like effects like sneak attack and rage and character qualities like super strength and healing factors and the like- are limited. You pick the power, it has a loose but set field of usage, and then everything else about it needs to be expanded with feats and stunts. However, these options don't just allow you to keep +1-ing the powers. For example, if you had Sneak Attack, you would increase the Sneak Attack rank in order to expand the damage slightly, but you could never go beyond your level's rank limit, so you couldn't just forgo all other options and have a character with a 0 in everything and a 20 in Sneak Attack. Furthermore, you could throw all your stunts into Sneak Attack and augment it with a lot of feats, but even then that just allows you to do more with it, such as sneak attacking constructs or being able to sneak attack with a blast or something to that effect. You can build a character well, but you can't really min-max by sacrificing a lot of crap and then throwing the excess into one really potent option.
I'm not sure if that entirely answers your question, but it's sort of hard to explain it just so. By classless, she doesn't mean you can be a character with full BAB and 9th level spells and full sneak attack and rogue skills and a handful of other useful abilities all at once, nor can you be a character who is a complete gimp but can cast 5th level spells from level 1. The system just doesn't work like that- not even so much in that those elements aren't even a part of the game (spellcasting works like skills, skill choices are determined by concept and background, and not arbitrarily by role, skills themselves are more flexible in their usage, attack power isn't a universal concept like in D&D, etc) but the game itself just has an entirely different milieu that doesn't promote power gaming and min-maxing very much. Min-maxing in True20/M20 is like min-maxing in a freeform textbased RPG, but the system still retains the structure of a very gamist system. It's a nice balance, in my opinion.
2. It is settingless. It's derived from True20, which is a settingless game. Rise was a game for a very setting specific system I was working on, which I later adapted to d20 (not True20 or M20) using specific m20 mechanics.
3. There are stock abilities, but ability design is relatively easy. That said, the GM has to be prudent when it comes to allowing player designed abilities. Because of this, player designed abilities tend to be a bit rarer for balance issues. Most characters won't have an entire set of self designed abilities, but will have a skeletal system of abilities taken from pre-existing material, and the rest is fleshed out with a mixture of flavor choices (many of the options are very flavor neutral), stunt point expenditures (which, in a lot of ways are like spending a character resource to open up meta-magic like effects for your various abilities), and a smattering of custom material.
That said, the power system is so very flexible you never feel like you are boxed in. Want to play a character who has just a general control over water? You blow a single power choice on Water Shaping, and then you can do just about anything you can imagine with water at will- blast people (which requires a cheap stunt), make mists, ice, or control currents (a simple Water Shaping check against a DC determined by difficulty lets you do this), or you can get really really specific and start doing things that are esoteric in their application, such as controlling plants and animals by manipulating the water in their cells (which may require a specific stunt, a feat choice, or a relatively high DC Water Shaping check, but regardless such an option is very possible with a single level's worth of "training"). As such, you feel very free to do what your character could reasonably do without having to justify every single thing with a mechanical ability. It's highly narrative in this fashion, and abuse factors are mitigated by the fact that general absurdity requires heavy dedication. For example, you could try and make a Water Shaper character that used their Water Shaping to do stupid degenerate things like bursting all the cells in a person's body and killing them at level 1, or smashing a person to death with a tsunami generated at will, but the GM would almost certainly set the DC of such a task so high as to make it impossible for someone who otherwise wasn't high enough in level or specialized enough to do so- and anything silly that could reasonably be explained can also be reasonably countered.
Certainly, someone coming at the game from a highly gamist viewpoint will probably start dreaming up ways of being abusive, but since the game is so narrative, there are always significant consequences for acting like a fool. The fact of the matter is that most abusive actions in a game involve heavy metagaming and acting out of character, and this system (and its base system) are just not designed with that in mind- and as such, the tone of the game discourages it pretty significantly.
4. I have no idea what thickety means.
The game is comparable to things like BESM, where the focus is more on creating top down characters. The point of the game is less about the paradigm of overcoming obstacles, and more about providing a framework for collaborative storytelling.
Anyway, I'm a little shocked to see all the departures. Some don't bother me because they are pretty understandable, but others seem a little ... well, I don't know. I guess my thinking on it is "would you go anywhere else on the site and then be upset if they were talking about the most recently released set in excess?" I have to admit that I'm also bored to tears by all the 4e talk, but it's not like anyone is making conversation about ANYTHING else at the moment, right? I can understand not wanting to talk about it, and I know that people tend to just talk over anything that doesn't pique their interest in here, though, so again... I don't know. I don't really get too concerned over MTGS business anyway, these days.
I am also tempted [strongly] to pick up "no more heroes" for the Wii. Any recomendations or warnings about the game?
Haha, that game is a trip. It's really hard to explain it, but I would recommend it. It's a good game, it's just incredibly bloody and as weird as all hell.
I haven't been playing much of anything lately, console, tabletop, or otherwise. Work has been really hectic lately, with lots of clients needing to see out of town specialists and other things. On top of that, I've been reading like crazy lately. I've undergone a lot of changes, I think, and it's been sort of complicated. I guess you could say I've been fairly self-involved, and lately all I really seem to do is read and do a lot of gay-related things. I've been feeling pretty empowered in my identity as a gay man, and been seeking out a lot of different perspectives on that in regards to sociology, politics, and religion- talking to all sorts of people about all sorts of things, trying to engage people of other viewpoints and break down the issues even further, getting involved in a lot of civil rights-ish sort of stuff. It's been an interesting time for me, but it's been helping me to sort of put my priorities straight and put my life in order, though, so I think it's important- but it hasn't left me a lot of free time or energy for other stuff. It's been a month since we last played 4e, and even longer for anything else. Sort of sad, really.
BUT, our FLGS just moved to a bigger place, and they are going to start doing weekly D&D games there. I'm considering running a game there, but I don't know if I have the time or patience!
Yes, Photon. You did answer my questions - quite thoroughly. It makes the game be appealing even moreso. It's not like the power balance questions are inherent game problems, they just seem like they would pop up in something based on D&D. But It's pretty nicely self-regulating as you described it. It's like when you realise that the free market forces regulate themselves - so even if the system did allow a lot of min-maxing (which you explained it doesn't), the GM can simply punish the offending player in his "min." If you really want to load up on one thing, just be prepared for weaknesses.
Well, I think I now basically have to break down and get no more herores given all of the hubub I have heard about it. I would rent it first but something in me always rankles at the waste of renting a game when I know that the only reason I would rent it is to see if I like it in which case I would have to buy it. So I bypass renting and just figure out if I like a game before I play it.
Someone pitch me a character concept. It can be on you're curious about seeing, one you've never been able to do well in another system, or just one you think would be hard to build well without getting crazy. I'll demonstrate how to make it using m20.
Just make sure it's a reasonable pitch. Something definitively whacky or unbuildable I wouldn't try to do. But anyone, throw me one, and I'll use it as an example, explaining what each choice means.
Quote from wamyc »
1) what's the basic mechanic restricting min-maxing problems and loading up on one thing in a classless system? I'm not saying there's an inherent problem with an open d20 system but I'm curious if you envisioned any systemic oversights to keep the players balanced. (like the standard way that the cost to raise something is X times Y, where X is the rank you're raising it to)
I'm so glad you asked that, Wamyc. Photon gave the right answer for it.
You can direct all your energy into building up one thing (like a singular power), but soon enough you'll not be able to direct more into it. There is a maximum power and skill rank cap based on your level, eventulaly toppping out at rank 5. So, you can start putting your ranks into one power every chance you get, but there's no way you unload every rank into one to get it up to, like, rank 10, or even to rank 5 before you're the proper level. You can always broaden, but not always accelerate your actual height of powerfulness.
If you're really dedicated to a power, you can get it to rank 5 by 21st level. Otherwise, you should be able to raise a goodly number of powers to rank 5 by around 26-30.
You can continue to put stunt points into making use of a certain power or skill - there is no cap as to how many stunt points can be applied to any ability (except the limited number of total stunt points you have based on level, of course). The thing is, putting a ton of stunt points into a specific power should never be that unbalancing. Let's say you have someone with telepathy, telekinesis, and heart shaping as their powers of primary focus. This character puts just about every stunt point they have into abilities for which they can use those three powers. But this isn't any better than having the same amount of abilities spread out among five, seven, or ten different powers. If anything, it might be slightly weaker because having a few more powers can often provide a greater range of effects and resources.
The only cases where intense focus might grant a great advantage is instances like when you boost damage or defense with points - you might increase the damage capability of a particular smite attack stunt or your mind blast or something, giving a +1 to damage for each point spent. What helps here is that there are benchmarks defining what is or is not doable. You can get the damage of this attack to go really high, but it likely should never go higher through stunt points alone than a really good damaging attack ought to be at that level. Damage output is expressed in categories (mild, light, average, strong, severe, extreme) and an attack would generally never exceed what is defined by the appropriate category. What's considered "extreme damage" at level 30 is higher than extreme damage at level 1. Even if someone can get a stunt that deals extreme damage at level 1, it still wouldn't be doing as much damage as an equivalent stunt at, say, level 14.
Point-buy systems are often easy to break. As this system is only partly point-based, I expect the level restrictions to keep most craziness from happening. Unexpectedly powerful synergies may still crop up, and I'm working on ways by which to mitigate them and make sure they're not hiding along the way like pitfalls.
2) So it's settingless? I rember the game (Rise I beleive) being a renaissance ghost/gothic game.
Rise is Photon Eater's game, at one point using its own system and at another point using d20.
M20 and True20 are intentionally setting neutral, unlike D&D or M&M, so they can adapted to a wide range of games. Blackthorn is probably the closest thing to a canon m20 setting, and it has some tropes and characteristics of its own that are rooted in setting.
3) And the game is a setting shell that gives players/DMs the tools to design feats/powers/whathaveyou or are there stock abilies in the game?
Theres no setting shell - if you want a modern game featuring no magic or demons or whatnot and only martial arts and low-key psionics, you add the restrictions you want and play around with a list of modifiers to make the powers work the way you want. If you want a high fantasy game with explosive cinematics, you can adjust it to suit that, too.
There is a list of powers, skills, feats, and stunts. The goal is to make them easily tweakible. As an exmaple, there's a fire shaping power, but maybe you want to have a special type of magic art in your game that uses a special mystical blue fire that has a different descriptor and some different effects tacked on. You just take the fire shaping power as a template, alter the descriptors, and work a set of listed modifiers to take some effects off and add effects on. It may be required to expend stunt points, like if mystical blue fire is simply more powerful than the ability to control plain fire.
Stunts are pretty lego-ish, and in addition to making guidelines for how to put stunts together and price them, I'm working on a plentiful stunt list. If you don't feel like making up special ones, you can draw from the premade ones or at least use them as a reference. Let's say there is a really cool telekinesis stunt that would also make a lot of sense as an air shaping stunt. What you would do is basically make a new stunt for air shaping and use the same basic effects, adjusting descriptors and flavor as needed.
4) What does "thickety" mean?
It means "like a thicket." In other words, dense and thorny.
All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to be the light that you see. All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to be the peace that you feel. All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to fill your heart on my own.
But the rainbow is an image of hope for many reasons, as it is a brilliant sight coming out of oftimes dismal weather.
Mamelon: ______ was a once-honored devoted warrior of his/her kingdom. Now s/he is on the run, having been framed for the murder of his/her lord, and is determined to prove his/her innocence. (some sort of paladin/samurai warrior turned rogue-ish)
Hello everyone. I realized it's been a long time since I posted here (not sure exactly how long, but quite a while).
Anyway, I haven't really had time to thoroughly read through the juggernaut posts in the last page or so, but I've read some of them and Mamelon's new system looks like it could be very interesting. It sounds like it's a generally more open version of the d20 system, but it's still balanced. I'm honestly not sure if I'd be interested in playing in it, but I'm definitely interested in taking a look at a more complete version of the rules once you have it and I have time.
On my side, as a couple of you know, I've been working on an epic version of the Archmage prestige class. I have it posted up in this post for those of you who want to take a look. I'm also looking for feedback and/or ideas for it as I don't really have enough experience with epic magic to know how balanced (or broken) some of those abilities are.
Mamelon: ______ was a once-honored devoted warrior of his/her kingdom. Now s/he is on the run, having been framed for the murder of his/her lord, and is determined to prove his/her innocence. (some sort of paladin/samurai warrior turned rogue-ish)
That one is actually pretty easy!
It's so easy to bleed concepts that you can basically merge any pre-existing class archetype by just dipping into the right power and feat trees, and you can always select to drop the parts of that role that are iconic that don't fit. She'll give you a better example, though.
Some concepts I've been able to flesh out with the system, just to show you how much you can do-
* A warrior who fights in heavy armor and wields only magical dancing weapons. He uses his telekinetic abilities to leap around the battlefield while orchestrating his dancing blades in accordance with his movements to become a devastating force.
* A witch who can control blood, using her abilities to heal wounds, remove toxins, and also to control emotions by influencing hormone levels in the blood. One of her most potent applications of her abilities is to cause careful and planned blockages of blood flow, causing her foes to go numb, lose mobility in their extremities, and even suffer from a stroke at her command.
* A thief and con man who uses illusion powers to emulate the appearances of legendary heroes and saints in order to bilk village folk out of their cash and prized belongings. He fights with special sharpshooting techniques and deceives his foes by screwing with their ability to perceive reality as he warps light, sound, and awareness around him defensively.
Keep in mind, it didn't take 30 levels and millions of gold worth of equipment to do it, either. All of these characters were possible by level 4 in their entirety, but much of their identities and functionality were solidified in the very first level.
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[16:23] Alacar Leoricar: maybe if you do it'll make the porn more meaningful
The game is comparable to things like BESM, where the focus is more on creating top down characters.
If I didn't know you weren't, from your description of the system I would have assumed that you were talking about BESM. A lot of the spirit seems similar.
Quote from Photon »
Since it's less gamist, game balance seems less important, and yet you never feel like you are just the Xander next to anyone else, because so much of the game is oriented around story telling and is as focused on social situations, problem solving, and skill challenges as it is on combat.
I assume that this is the modern occult setting version of feeling like you are just the Joxer next to anyone else.
Those concepts sound awesome, and all those possibilities by level 4? Sign me up already!
Well, for the most part. The stroke ability is possible, but it's not highly effective until later levels, at least not during my testing. Also, in order to have all of those options represented, you sort of have to focus a good deal early on- if you want to dabble in some other things, you may not have enough feat/power slots or stunt points to get ALL of that, but it's very possible to have a character that has some really esoteric abilities from very early game.
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[16:23] Alacar Leoricar: maybe if you do it'll make the porn more meaningful
Mamelon: ______ was a once-honored devoted warrior of his/her kingdom. Now s/he is on the run, having been framed for the murder of his/her lord, and is determined to prove his/her innocence. (some sort of paladin/samurai warrior turned rogue-ish)
Sure, that works. It's not much to go on, though. You described well what sort of person this character is and what they're doing, but gave very little as to what sort of mechanical identity you're looking for.
You said a paladin/samurai turned rogue-ish, but how would you like to see that? A fast-drawing katana wielder with light armor? A knight imbued with spiritual power? Something more specific.
If I were going to address that concept just off the top of my head with no additional info, I would look to a premade path I've already started on, the crusader. Shall I reveal it?
Meanwhile, Jack has pitched me a concept. He said he wanted to see a kind of adventurer librarian smart-guy with asthma, someone who was able to find out just about anything, whether it be about the occult or organized crime, and happened to be quite good with a pistol.
This is what I put together. I'll walk y'all through the steps.
Slick, the Smart Guy Librarian
Level 5
That seems like a good level to start on. First, we need to assign attribute scores. We have 10 points to divvy up.
He's supposed to be kind of a push-over up close, and he has breathing problems and all that. So I gave him low Strength and Constitution, choosing to focus on Dexterity and mental attributes.
But wait! At level 5, we get two more points, each one added to a different attribute. I'll increase Intelligence and Dexterity, since they will be important.
He's pretty nimble and knows how to maneuver around people, and he knows a good bit about the occult. Feat time.
You start with 5 feats, and get 1 per level. So that gives him 9 feats.
Greater Intelligent Learner. (Prerequisite: Int 3). You gain 3 ranks in any Intelligence based skills. Choices: Supernatural Knowledge +1, Religion and Philosophy +1, Nature +1. Greater Wise Learner. (Prerequisite: Wis 3). You gain 3 ranks in any Wisdom based skills. Choices: Insight +1, Perception +1, Survival +1. Charismatic Learner. (Prerequisite: Cha 2). You gain 2 ranks in any Charisma based skills. Choices: Bluff +2 Charismatic Learner. Choices: Diplomacy +1, Streetwise +1.
Okay, that's a lot of bonus skill ranks. Let's see what he has now.
When making a skill check, the you roll a d20 and add your modifier. The modifier is one half your level + 4 for each rank + the attribute. So his Supernatural Knowledge modifier is 2 (half of level 5, rounded down) + 8 ( two ranks) + 4 (4 Intelligence), or +14.
He spent 4 feat slots getting those skills, and has 5 left. We'll come back to feats later. Now let's think about powers. You pick a power and assign ranks to it. At level 5, the highest rank you can have in something is rank 2. You get 9 power ranks for free at level 5 (same as the number of feats). Remember, you can always choose to get another power rank instead of a feat. When you gain a power, you pick it's key attribute. Usually there is a list you pick from.
We want someone who is savvy and insightful and can put his skills to good use. First thing to look at is a nifty power called Skill Master. It's a power that you apply to a skill you know that lets you use that skill much like a power. You can then use the skill for a variety of combat-related stunts, as well as getting a bonus to skill checks. For Skill Master, the key attribute is the same as the one for the skill.
This is a nice power that is basically superhuman Intelligence. What does it do? Time to explain a power's description. I'll give the block and provide notes.
Enhanced Intelligence (Int)
Extraordinary, supernatural, technology
- What's this mean? Well, first, the name of the power. In parenthesis is the key attributes you can pick for the power. This time, you can only pick Intelligence, since this power is all about Intelligence in the first place.
The next line shows what power types you can make this power have. If you want, the character could have super intelligence due to a supernatural thing, like magic. It could also be because of technology (i.e. cybernetics), or it could just be notable genius, which is what is meant by having the extraordinary type. You make the choice when you get the power.
You are possessed of incredible intelligence. Enhanced Prowess * Rank 1 * Passive
You gain a power bonus equal to your power rank to Intelligence checks and skill and power checks derived from Intelligence.
- One of the benefits of this power. At rank 1, you gain this passive effect. A passive effects means it's always active and requires no action to use.
When it comes to Intelligence based skill or power checks, and raw Intelligence checks, you add +1 for every Enhanced Intelligence rank.
Enhanced Effort * Rank 2 * Stamina * Free action * Personal
You gain attribute boost equal to your power rank for your enhanced attribute until the end of your next turn. Sustain minor until the end of the encounter. Rank: Rank 3: the effect lasts until the end of the encounter.
- At rank 2, you get another benefit. "Stamina" means you have to spend a stamina point to use this ability (I'll explain Stamina points later). You can do as a free action, which means you can do it without using up an action as long as you spend the Stamina point. It's personal, so it only works on you.
It gives you something called intelligence boost, a type of condition:
Attribute boost X: Attribute boost applies to a specific attribute score, such as Constitution boost or Wisdom boost. A character with attribute boost gains a bonus to attack rolls, damage, severity, defenses, skill checks, attribute checks, and power checks that are derived from the boosted attribute. The bonus is equal to X (i.e. Intelligence boost 3 grants a +3 bonus to all Intelligence related rolls, checks, damage, and defenses).
This lasts for one round, but look at the sustain line. Sustain minor means you can use a minor action every round to keep the effect going (a nice function taken from D&D).
Now look at the rank line. This benefit improves as you gain ranks. Once you get to rank 3, you don't have to sustain it, as it just lasts for the whole encounter (about 5 minutes).
Great Cunning * Rank 1 * Passive
When you become trained in this power, you gain an additional skill rank to allot as you choose. Rank: Rank 3: 2 extra skill ranks. Rank 5: 3 extra skills ranks.
- Another passive benefit. When you get the first rank, you get another bonus skill rank. When you get to rank 3, you get yet another one. At rank 5, you have three total skill ranks you just got from this power. So, he has 2 ranks: one more skill rank! Let's adjust. I'll raise Perception by 1 rank.
Expert Strike (Str, Dex, or Int) - He's picking Int, by the way.
Supernatural, extraordinary, or technology
Your fighting style makes your attacks a force to be reckoned with.
- This power lets you choose from some different benefits when you get it, including a sneak attack effect. I'll only explain the I picked for Slick.
Focused Target * Rank 1 * At-will * Minor action * Range 10, one creature
The target becomes your focused target. Whenever you deal damage to your focused target, you deal an additional +3 damage, and you gain a +1 bonus to the severity roll. Rank: +1 damage per rank. 3: +2 to the severity roll. 5: +3 to the severity roll.
- This one is a bit more complex. This provides an act you can make. "At-will" means you can use it whenever you want, as long as you have the right kind of action. For this one, it's a minor action, which means it's take little time to do. You can pick as your target any creature in 10 squares of panels in any direction around you. The target doesn't get a chance to resist it, since you're really just designating your focus on it.
This allows you to do +3 damage with any attack on the enemy you picked, then another +1 for every rank. If Slick has rank 2, he deals 3+2 extra damage whenever het hits someone with an attack. When he makes his severity roll, he also gets a +1 to that roll.
That makes 8 of his power ranks that he's used:
Skill Master: Supernatural Knowledge rank 2 (Int), Skill Master: Perception rank 1 (Wis), Skill Master: Insight rank 1 (Wis), Enhanced Intelligence rank 2 (Int), Expert Strike rank 2 (Int)
I won't go into detail about what these do. But notice that he only had 1 free power rank left, so I had to use three of this feats to give him a total of four more power ranks. He already used four feats to get his extra skills, then three for power ranks. That means he has two feats left. How about:
Weapon Focus (firearm): You gain a +1 feat bonus to damage dealt with attacks made using a firearm. Lightning Reflexes: You gain a +1 feat bonus to your Reflex defense. At level 11, the bonus becomes +2. At level 21, the bonus becomes +3.
Okay, those are his feats, skills, and powers. That was the meat. Now for the potatoes: stunts.
He has 9 stunt points to spend at level 5. Here's a stunt I made for him:
Trick Shot (+1) * Expert Strike, Marksmanship * You fire where an foe would least likely defend, hitting a blind spot.
- Trick Shot is the name of the stunt. The (+1) is the stunt's point level, which means it's total stunt point cost. Expert Strike and Marksmanship are the powers that define the stunt - this one references two powers at once. The rest is flavor text.
Rank 1 * At-will * Standard action * Ranged, weapon, one creature * Attack: Intelligence vs. Reflex
- You have to have rank 1 in each referenced power to get this stunt. You can use it at-will, by spending a standard action. The range of the attack is the same your weapon's range, and you can pick one target. When you attack, you make an attack roll using your Intelligence. So it's one half your level + the attack bonus of the gun + your Intelligence. You have to roll higher enough to be above the target's Reflex defense.
Success: Deal Weapon + Intelligence damage.
- If you hit the target's Reflex score, you deal damage. The damage is the weapon's base damage (called "Weapon"), then add your Intelligence. Don't forget - after hitting, add in your focused target bonus damage if you hit your focused target!
Another sample stunt, this one not being at-will or passive.
Anticipate (+1) * Skill Master: Insight * You can sense where you opponent will strike through careful observation, deftly sidestepping the blow. Rank 1 * Encounter * Interrupt * Personal * Trigger: You are hit by an attack * Check: Insight vs. attacker's attack roll
Success: The attack misses.
This one says "encounter." I'm actually looking for a better name than that, but what it means is that it uses up a type of charge. Characters all have encounter charges and daily charges. If an effect is complex or potent enough that it's not easy to use every round, then it takes up one of your charges. You can use the same stunt over and over if you want until you're out of charges, or you can use a different stunt every time you use a charge. You can recover charges, too, but I'll explain more about that later.
Interrupt means the effect resolves before the trigger can resolve. In this case, before the attack has a chance to hit, your stunt gets involved and causes it to automatically miss. However, you have to make an Insight check that is higher than the attack roll! So it pays to have a high Insight modifier.
Okay, so those are two of his stunts (2 points out of 9). I'll let that be it for now. If anyone likes, later I will show the rest of his stunts and give a breakdown on defenses and stuff like that.
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If I didn't know you weren't, from your description of the system I would have assumed that you were talking about BESM. A lot of the spirit seems similar.
One of the most major changes I made from the old system was inpired by BESM, heh.
All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to be the light that you see. All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to be the peace that you feel. All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to fill your heart on my own.
But the rainbow is an image of hope for many reasons, as it is a brilliant sight coming out of oftimes dismal weather.
Someone pitch me a character concept. It can be on you're curious about seeing, one you've never been able to do well in another system, or just one you think would be hard to build well without getting crazy. I'll demonstrate how to make it using m20.
How about an ex-barbarian, ex-paladin. They grew up as a barbarian, but eventually decided to search for something more than savagery. They became a paladin, but came to realize that the strict rules limited freedom. Thus you have an exile who is skilled in heavy armor and big weapons; who knows the power of both unthinking fury and rigid discipline, and tries to find the balance between using both. They're also very receptive to learning new philosophies and techniques.
I know, I haven't posted here in a while, but character building has always been one of my favorite activities. This page The previous page alone was enough to pique my interest.
I had such a nice post written before i decided it was probably silly
Im pretty sure Mams could turn out and flesh my concept... but it sounded so silly when i was writting it on paper because it clearly showed what a fanatasy/anime/rpg geek i can be at times
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Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
I had such a nice post written before i decided it was probably silly
Im pretty sure Mams could turn out and flesh my concept... but it sounded so silly when i was writting it on paper because it clearly showed what a fanatasy/anime/rpg geek i can be at times
I think that sort of silliness/extremism is what Mamelon wanted
Yeah maybe.... though it seems like such a silly concept its kinda embarrasing... i mean 'Normal guy gets fused with mystical, power pulsing sentient Grimoire' seems so generic now a days
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Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
Yeah maybe.... though it seems like such a silly concept its kinda embarrasing... i mean 'Normal guy gets fused with mystical, power pulsing sentient Grimoire' seems so generic now a days
For some fantasy/anime perhaps, but I don't recall seeing that RPed before (not that I've seen all that much roleplaying). Although that seems more like the random accident hero than the self-made heroes that make up the typical RPG. Hmmmm, a symbiote class. That could be interesting.
Hey all! I'm a relatively new D&D player and need a little help with my character. I rolled a Half-Elf Ranger and just don't know if I should go into any prestige classes or keep going with being a Ranger. I'm just at the point where I'm comfortable enough to try getting an animal companion and I'm actually using my skills now. Here's my character sheet.
Umm, since no one answered your question yet, I'll pretend I know more than I do and start.
What edition are you using (I'd assume 4E)? What prestige classes are you looking at ('cause I'm only familiar with the 3E ones)?
I would say prestige classes are either for story/RP purposes or for the new and cool abilities. They stunt you're growth in other areas (if I remember correctly....)
One of the gurus should take up you're question soon enough.
I named my character after Kukaku Shiba, sister of Ganju. She's the chick with the nubby arm. I misspelled her name but its all good. Ikaku means threat or menace in Japanese. It sounds like Ikaku on the dub. >.< We're using 3.0 and 3.5 for most stuff, though the DM said he'd be open to taking things from 4.0. I downloaded pretty much everything from 3.X so I have nearly every sourcebook. I did take two of my feats from D&D Wiki though. All the good Ranger prestige classes seem to involve bows and I chose dual swords. Bows seem too cliched so I decided to brave any comparisons to Drizzt and do swords. I'll have you know that only one of my swords is a Scimitar. If my Longsword weren't so good I'd get two Scimitars. It has +2 to attack AND damage rolls and I have Improved Critical(it makes my threat range 17-20) and Weapon Focus(+1 to attack rolls) on it.
Nice.
Yeah, I was never too big on bows. I mostly chose ranger for the free dual wielding. I actually have the 3.x stuff downloaded as well, so I'll look through that and see what strikes me. (although you may well have more actual RPing experience than me)
Shadowdancer always sounded like a cool prestige class. Assassin sounded cool, too, but they made it evil.
Bows ARE good, problem is that it requires more reading and feats than TWF TWF just requires you to reach the proper level, meanwhile you start getting TWF Defense and the Weapon Focus feats
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Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
I disagree--for most bow-based Rangers you just need Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Far Shot, and, if you want, Rapidshot and all of that. No more than the TWF ranger, especially if you prestige into a class that grants those abilities to begin with.
A few quick questions (which reveal some assumptions I think I'm incorrectly making about your system):
1) what's the basic mechanic restricting min-maxing problems and loading up on one thing in a classless system? I'm not saying there's an inherent problem with an open d20 system but I'm curious if you envisioned any systemic oversights to keep the players balanced. (like the standard way that the cost to raise something is X times Y, where X is the rank you're raising it to)
2) So it's settingless? I rember the game (Rise I beleive) being a renaissance ghost/gothic game.
3) And the game is a setting shell that gives players/DMs the tools to design feats/powers/whathaveyou or are there stock abilies in the game?
4) What does "thickety" mean?
I might pick it up. However, as much as I would like to, my list of must gets for video games keeps growing while my time to play does not. I now have to add Ninja Gaiden II, milon's secret castle, N64 paper mario, and dig dug to the list.
I can answer a few of these.
1. Character options in and of themselves are not really scaling for the most part, since they depend on your level bonus to your various attributes. You select an option once, and add further applications to an option as you progress. For an idea of how the power system really functions, a general idea can be gleaned from my d20 mod game Rise: Cogito, which uses a power system that is directly derived from the same source. A character can devote themselves entirely to doing one thing really well, and that's fine because the system doesn't scale- the numbers don't continue to climb higher and higher, it is just that the ability to perform tasks within the predetermined rules of an ability become easier as you focus, and you gain more flexible uses.
Much of the system is still based in feats, and in feat trees. Nothing really stops a character from focusing on "loading up", because that's a perfectly viable build choice for a character. Stunts themselves are purchased, but again, they don't scale. For example, a character with the Eldritch Power power can take a stunt for a small amount of stunt points to gain the Eldritch Blast power. If they wanted to, they could continue adding points to this to further develop that Eldritch Blast stunt. Does it make the Eldritch Blast more powerful? Marginally, yes, but it's always at cost. However, most of the increases to Eldritch Blast will give it other applications.
For example, a character of mine who is fairly focused on her Eldritch Blast has devised ways to use it in a lot of different ways- she can use it as a blast, as an area of effect, she can attach uses of other powers to it, she can make a blast with increased severity, she can make a blast that bypasses defense easier, and other uses. Each of these uses required point investments, and arguably her blast is more powerful than say, someone who also has the same Eldritch Blast but chose to pick up a bit of everything rather than being a specialist. However, at no point could I just throw a bunch of points into her blast and make it do huge amounts of damage, since much of what determines the damage output is based in level, anyway. While a specialized character has a lot of flexibility with one or two options, a non-specialized character has a lot of options in general, and the efficiency of both of these characters is determined primarily by the current level of the party, as opposed to by point expenditure.
I've been told it's very VERY hard to break True20 system, and having played it for over a year now, I'm very much inclined to agree. It just... doesn't have the same elements as D&D. I really can't explain why that is, it just seems to be the case. It's a very high powered system, but there never seems to be an issue with it. Since it's less gamist, game balance seems less important, and yet you never feel like you are just the Xander next to anyone else, because so much of the game is oriented around story telling and is as focused on social situations, problem solving, and skill challenges as it is on combat.
Another thing to remember that the only point-buy elements in the game are in regards to your ability scores (which follow the same conventions and rules as d20), and your stunts. Powers- which range from supernatural abilities to class feature like effects like sneak attack and rage and character qualities like super strength and healing factors and the like- are limited. You pick the power, it has a loose but set field of usage, and then everything else about it needs to be expanded with feats and stunts. However, these options don't just allow you to keep +1-ing the powers. For example, if you had Sneak Attack, you would increase the Sneak Attack rank in order to expand the damage slightly, but you could never go beyond your level's rank limit, so you couldn't just forgo all other options and have a character with a 0 in everything and a 20 in Sneak Attack. Furthermore, you could throw all your stunts into Sneak Attack and augment it with a lot of feats, but even then that just allows you to do more with it, such as sneak attacking constructs or being able to sneak attack with a blast or something to that effect. You can build a character well, but you can't really min-max by sacrificing a lot of crap and then throwing the excess into one really potent option.
I'm not sure if that entirely answers your question, but it's sort of hard to explain it just so. By classless, she doesn't mean you can be a character with full BAB and 9th level spells and full sneak attack and rogue skills and a handful of other useful abilities all at once, nor can you be a character who is a complete gimp but can cast 5th level spells from level 1. The system just doesn't work like that- not even so much in that those elements aren't even a part of the game (spellcasting works like skills, skill choices are determined by concept and background, and not arbitrarily by role, skills themselves are more flexible in their usage, attack power isn't a universal concept like in D&D, etc) but the game itself just has an entirely different milieu that doesn't promote power gaming and min-maxing very much. Min-maxing in True20/M20 is like min-maxing in a freeform textbased RPG, but the system still retains the structure of a very gamist system. It's a nice balance, in my opinion.
2. It is settingless. It's derived from True20, which is a settingless game. Rise was a game for a very setting specific system I was working on, which I later adapted to d20 (not True20 or M20) using specific m20 mechanics.
3. There are stock abilities, but ability design is relatively easy. That said, the GM has to be prudent when it comes to allowing player designed abilities. Because of this, player designed abilities tend to be a bit rarer for balance issues. Most characters won't have an entire set of self designed abilities, but will have a skeletal system of abilities taken from pre-existing material, and the rest is fleshed out with a mixture of flavor choices (many of the options are very flavor neutral), stunt point expenditures (which, in a lot of ways are like spending a character resource to open up meta-magic like effects for your various abilities), and a smattering of custom material.
That said, the power system is so very flexible you never feel like you are boxed in. Want to play a character who has just a general control over water? You blow a single power choice on Water Shaping, and then you can do just about anything you can imagine with water at will- blast people (which requires a cheap stunt), make mists, ice, or control currents (a simple Water Shaping check against a DC determined by difficulty lets you do this), or you can get really really specific and start doing things that are esoteric in their application, such as controlling plants and animals by manipulating the water in their cells (which may require a specific stunt, a feat choice, or a relatively high DC Water Shaping check, but regardless such an option is very possible with a single level's worth of "training"). As such, you feel very free to do what your character could reasonably do without having to justify every single thing with a mechanical ability. It's highly narrative in this fashion, and abuse factors are mitigated by the fact that general absurdity requires heavy dedication. For example, you could try and make a Water Shaper character that used their Water Shaping to do stupid degenerate things like bursting all the cells in a person's body and killing them at level 1, or smashing a person to death with a tsunami generated at will, but the GM would almost certainly set the DC of such a task so high as to make it impossible for someone who otherwise wasn't high enough in level or specialized enough to do so- and anything silly that could reasonably be explained can also be reasonably countered.
Certainly, someone coming at the game from a highly gamist viewpoint will probably start dreaming up ways of being abusive, but since the game is so narrative, there are always significant consequences for acting like a fool. The fact of the matter is that most abusive actions in a game involve heavy metagaming and acting out of character, and this system (and its base system) are just not designed with that in mind- and as such, the tone of the game discourages it pretty significantly.
4. I have no idea what thickety means.
The game is comparable to things like BESM, where the focus is more on creating top down characters. The point of the game is less about the paradigm of overcoming obstacles, and more about providing a framework for collaborative storytelling.
Anyway, I'm a little shocked to see all the departures. Some don't bother me because they are pretty understandable, but others seem a little ... well, I don't know. I guess my thinking on it is "would you go anywhere else on the site and then be upset if they were talking about the most recently released set in excess?" I have to admit that I'm also bored to tears by all the 4e talk, but it's not like anyone is making conversation about ANYTHING else at the moment, right? I can understand not wanting to talk about it, and I know that people tend to just talk over anything that doesn't pique their interest in here, though, so again... I don't know. I don't really get too concerned over MTGS business anyway, these days.
Haha, that game is a trip. It's really hard to explain it, but I would recommend it. It's a good game, it's just incredibly bloody and as weird as all hell.
I haven't been playing much of anything lately, console, tabletop, or otherwise. Work has been really hectic lately, with lots of clients needing to see out of town specialists and other things. On top of that, I've been reading like crazy lately. I've undergone a lot of changes, I think, and it's been sort of complicated. I guess you could say I've been fairly self-involved, and lately all I really seem to do is read and do a lot of gay-related things. I've been feeling pretty empowered in my identity as a gay man, and been seeking out a lot of different perspectives on that in regards to sociology, politics, and religion- talking to all sorts of people about all sorts of things, trying to engage people of other viewpoints and break down the issues even further, getting involved in a lot of civil rights-ish sort of stuff. It's been an interesting time for me, but it's been helping me to sort of put my priorities straight and put my life in order, though, so I think it's important- but it hasn't left me a lot of free time or energy for other stuff. It's been a month since we last played 4e, and even longer for anything else. Sort of sad, really.
BUT, our FLGS just moved to a bigger place, and they are going to start doing weekly D&D games there. I'm considering running a game there, but I don't know if I have the time or patience!
Well, I think I now basically have to break down and get no more herores given all of the hubub I have heard about it. I would rent it first but something in me always rankles at the waste of renting a game when I know that the only reason I would rent it is to see if I like it in which case I would have to buy it. So I bypass renting and just figure out if I like a game before I play it.
Someone pitch me a character concept. It can be on you're curious about seeing, one you've never been able to do well in another system, or just one you think would be hard to build well without getting crazy. I'll demonstrate how to make it using m20.
Just make sure it's a reasonable pitch. Something definitively whacky or unbuildable I wouldn't try to do. But anyone, throw me one, and I'll use it as an example, explaining what each choice means.
I'm so glad you asked that, Wamyc. Photon gave the right answer for it.
You can direct all your energy into building up one thing (like a singular power), but soon enough you'll not be able to direct more into it. There is a maximum power and skill rank cap based on your level, eventulaly toppping out at rank 5. So, you can start putting your ranks into one power every chance you get, but there's no way you unload every rank into one to get it up to, like, rank 10, or even to rank 5 before you're the proper level. You can always broaden, but not always accelerate your actual height of powerfulness.
If you're really dedicated to a power, you can get it to rank 5 by 21st level. Otherwise, you should be able to raise a goodly number of powers to rank 5 by around 26-30.
You can continue to put stunt points into making use of a certain power or skill - there is no cap as to how many stunt points can be applied to any ability (except the limited number of total stunt points you have based on level, of course). The thing is, putting a ton of stunt points into a specific power should never be that unbalancing. Let's say you have someone with telepathy, telekinesis, and heart shaping as their powers of primary focus. This character puts just about every stunt point they have into abilities for which they can use those three powers. But this isn't any better than having the same amount of abilities spread out among five, seven, or ten different powers. If anything, it might be slightly weaker because having a few more powers can often provide a greater range of effects and resources.
The only cases where intense focus might grant a great advantage is instances like when you boost damage or defense with points - you might increase the damage capability of a particular smite attack stunt or your mind blast or something, giving a +1 to damage for each point spent. What helps here is that there are benchmarks defining what is or is not doable. You can get the damage of this attack to go really high, but it likely should never go higher through stunt points alone than a really good damaging attack ought to be at that level. Damage output is expressed in categories (mild, light, average, strong, severe, extreme) and an attack would generally never exceed what is defined by the appropriate category. What's considered "extreme damage" at level 30 is higher than extreme damage at level 1. Even if someone can get a stunt that deals extreme damage at level 1, it still wouldn't be doing as much damage as an equivalent stunt at, say, level 14.
Point-buy systems are often easy to break. As this system is only partly point-based, I expect the level restrictions to keep most craziness from happening. Unexpectedly powerful synergies may still crop up, and I'm working on ways by which to mitigate them and make sure they're not hiding along the way like pitfalls.
Rise is Photon Eater's game, at one point using its own system and at another point using d20.
M20 and True20 are intentionally setting neutral, unlike D&D or M&M, so they can adapted to a wide range of games. Blackthorn is probably the closest thing to a canon m20 setting, and it has some tropes and characteristics of its own that are rooted in setting.
Theres no setting shell - if you want a modern game featuring no magic or demons or whatnot and only martial arts and low-key psionics, you add the restrictions you want and play around with a list of modifiers to make the powers work the way you want. If you want a high fantasy game with explosive cinematics, you can adjust it to suit that, too.
There is a list of powers, skills, feats, and stunts. The goal is to make them easily tweakible. As an exmaple, there's a fire shaping power, but maybe you want to have a special type of magic art in your game that uses a special mystical blue fire that has a different descriptor and some different effects tacked on. You just take the fire shaping power as a template, alter the descriptors, and work a set of listed modifiers to take some effects off and add effects on. It may be required to expend stunt points, like if mystical blue fire is simply more powerful than the ability to control plain fire.
Stunts are pretty lego-ish, and in addition to making guidelines for how to put stunts together and price them, I'm working on a plentiful stunt list. If you don't feel like making up special ones, you can draw from the premade ones or at least use them as a reference. Let's say there is a really cool telekinesis stunt that would also make a lot of sense as an air shaping stunt. What you would do is basically make a new stunt for air shaping and use the same basic effects, adjusting descriptors and flavor as needed.
It means "like a thicket." In other words, dense and thorny.
All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to be the peace that you feel.
All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to fill your heart on my own.
Gaymers | Magic Coffeehouse | Little Jar of Mamelon | Natural 20
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Ryttare Kelasin Luna Orelinalei
Anyway, I haven't really had time to thoroughly read through the juggernaut posts in the last page or so, but I've read some of them and Mamelon's new system looks like it could be very interesting. It sounds like it's a generally more open version of the d20 system, but it's still balanced. I'm honestly not sure if I'd be interested in playing in it, but I'm definitely interested in taking a look at a more complete version of the rules once you have it and I have time.
On my side, as a couple of you know, I've been working on an epic version of the Archmage prestige class. I have it posted up in this post for those of you who want to take a look. I'm also looking for feedback and/or ideas for it as I don't really have enough experience with epic magic to know how balanced (or broken) some of those abilities are.
Winner of the Weekly Signature & Avatar Contest Weeks 51, 59, 78, & 118.
I don't care if I was framed for murder if I only got a warning I would let it go.
That one is actually pretty easy!
It's so easy to bleed concepts that you can basically merge any pre-existing class archetype by just dipping into the right power and feat trees, and you can always select to drop the parts of that role that are iconic that don't fit. She'll give you a better example, though.
Some concepts I've been able to flesh out with the system, just to show you how much you can do-
* A warrior who fights in heavy armor and wields only magical dancing weapons. He uses his telekinetic abilities to leap around the battlefield while orchestrating his dancing blades in accordance with his movements to become a devastating force.
* A witch who can control blood, using her abilities to heal wounds, remove toxins, and also to control emotions by influencing hormone levels in the blood. One of her most potent applications of her abilities is to cause careful and planned blockages of blood flow, causing her foes to go numb, lose mobility in their extremities, and even suffer from a stroke at her command.
* A thief and con man who uses illusion powers to emulate the appearances of legendary heroes and saints in order to bilk village folk out of their cash and prized belongings. He fights with special sharpshooting techniques and deceives his foes by screwing with their ability to perceive reality as he warps light, sound, and awareness around him defensively.
Keep in mind, it didn't take 30 levels and millions of gold worth of equipment to do it, either. All of these characters were possible by level 4 in their entirety, but much of their identities and functionality were solidified in the very first level.
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Ryttare Kelasin Luna Orelinalei
Well, for the most part. The stroke ability is possible, but it's not highly effective until later levels, at least not during my testing. Also, in order to have all of those options represented, you sort of have to focus a good deal early on- if you want to dabble in some other things, you may not have enough feat/power slots or stunt points to get ALL of that, but it's very possible to have a character that has some really esoteric abilities from very early game.
You said a paladin/samurai turned rogue-ish, but how would you like to see that? A fast-drawing katana wielder with light armor? A knight imbued with spiritual power? Something more specific.
If I were going to address that concept just off the top of my head with no additional info, I would look to a premade path I've already started on, the crusader. Shall I reveal it?
Meanwhile, Jack has pitched me a concept. He said he wanted to see a kind of adventurer librarian smart-guy with asthma, someone who was able to find out just about anything, whether it be about the occult or organized crime, and happened to be quite good with a pistol.
This is what I put together. I'll walk y'all through the steps.
Slick, the Smart Guy Librarian
Level 5
That seems like a good level to start on. First, we need to assign attribute scores. We have 10 points to divvy up.
Strength 0, Constitution 0, Dexterity 2, Intelligence 3, Wisdom 3, Charisma 2
He's supposed to be kind of a push-over up close, and he has breathing problems and all that. So I gave him low Strength and Constitution, choosing to focus on Dexterity and mental attributes.
But wait! At level 5, we get two more points, each one added to a different attribute. I'll increase Intelligence and Dexterity, since they will be important.
Strength 0, Constitution 0, Dexterity 3, Intelligence 4, Wisdom 3, Charisma 2
A 1st level character can only have an attribute of 5, so 4 is pretty good even at level 5.
I'll skip over defenses, hit points, and charges for right now. Next thing we'll do is pick his skills, feats, and powers.
He gets 4 skill ranks starting out. I'll pick:
Acrobatics rank 1, Supernatural Knowledge rank 1, Streetwise rank 1, Insight rank 1
He's pretty nimble and knows how to maneuver around people, and he knows a good bit about the occult. Feat time.
You start with 5 feats, and get 1 per level. So that gives him 9 feats.
Greater Intelligent Learner. (Prerequisite: Int 3). You gain 3 ranks in any Intelligence based skills. Choices: Supernatural Knowledge +1, Religion and Philosophy +1, Nature +1.
Greater Wise Learner. (Prerequisite: Wis 3). You gain 3 ranks in any Wisdom based skills. Choices: Insight +1, Perception +1, Survival +1.
Charismatic Learner. (Prerequisite: Cha 2). You gain 2 ranks in any Charisma based skills. Choices: Bluff +2
Charismatic Learner. Choices: Diplomacy +1, Streetwise +1.
Okay, that's a lot of bonus skill ranks. Let's see what he has now.
Acrobatics rank 1 (Dex), Supernatural Knowledge rank 2 (Int), Streetwise rank 2 (Cha), Insight rank 2 (Wis), Perception rank 1 (Wis), Religion and Philosophy rank 1 (Int), Nature rank 1 (Int), Survival rank 1 (Wis), Diplomacy rank 1 (Cha), Bluff rank 2 (Cha)
When making a skill check, the you roll a d20 and add your modifier. The modifier is one half your level + 4 for each rank + the attribute. So his Supernatural Knowledge modifier is 2 (half of level 5, rounded down) + 8 ( two ranks) + 4 (4 Intelligence), or +14.
He spent 4 feat slots getting those skills, and has 5 left. We'll come back to feats later. Now let's think about powers. You pick a power and assign ranks to it. At level 5, the highest rank you can have in something is rank 2. You get 9 power ranks for free at level 5 (same as the number of feats). Remember, you can always choose to get another power rank instead of a feat. When you gain a power, you pick it's key attribute. Usually there is a list you pick from.
We want someone who is savvy and insightful and can put his skills to good use. First thing to look at is a nifty power called Skill Master. It's a power that you apply to a skill you know that lets you use that skill much like a power. You can then use the skill for a variety of combat-related stunts, as well as getting a bonus to skill checks. For Skill Master, the key attribute is the same as the one for the skill.
Skill Master: Supernatural Knowledge rank 2 (Int), Skill Master: Perception rank 1 (Wis), Skill Master: Insight rank 1 (Wis)
What else?
Enhanced Intelligence rank 2 (Int).
This is a nice power that is basically superhuman Intelligence. What does it do? Time to explain a power's description. I'll give the block and provide notes.
Enhanced Intelligence (Int)
Extraordinary, supernatural, technology
- What's this mean? Well, first, the name of the power. In parenthesis is the key attributes you can pick for the power. This time, you can only pick Intelligence, since this power is all about Intelligence in the first place.
The next line shows what power types you can make this power have. If you want, the character could have super intelligence due to a supernatural thing, like magic. It could also be because of technology (i.e. cybernetics), or it could just be notable genius, which is what is meant by having the extraordinary type. You make the choice when you get the power.
You are possessed of incredible intelligence.
Enhanced Prowess * Rank 1 * Passive
You gain a power bonus equal to your power rank to Intelligence checks and skill and power checks derived from Intelligence.
- One of the benefits of this power. At rank 1, you gain this passive effect. A passive effects means it's always active and requires no action to use.
When it comes to Intelligence based skill or power checks, and raw Intelligence checks, you add +1 for every Enhanced Intelligence rank.
Enhanced Effort * Rank 2 * Stamina * Free action * Personal
You gain attribute boost equal to your power rank for your enhanced attribute until the end of your next turn. Sustain minor until the end of the encounter. Rank: Rank 3: the effect lasts until the end of the encounter.
- At rank 2, you get another benefit. "Stamina" means you have to spend a stamina point to use this ability (I'll explain Stamina points later). You can do as a free action, which means you can do it without using up an action as long as you spend the Stamina point. It's personal, so it only works on you.
It gives you something called intelligence boost, a type of condition:
Attribute boost X: Attribute boost applies to a specific attribute score, such as Constitution boost or Wisdom boost. A character with attribute boost gains a bonus to attack rolls, damage, severity, defenses, skill checks, attribute checks, and power checks that are derived from the boosted attribute. The bonus is equal to X (i.e. Intelligence boost 3 grants a +3 bonus to all Intelligence related rolls, checks, damage, and defenses).
This lasts for one round, but look at the sustain line. Sustain minor means you can use a minor action every round to keep the effect going (a nice function taken from D&D).
Now look at the rank line. This benefit improves as you gain ranks. Once you get to rank 3, you don't have to sustain it, as it just lasts for the whole encounter (about 5 minutes).
Great Cunning * Rank 1 * Passive
When you become trained in this power, you gain an additional skill rank to allot as you choose. Rank: Rank 3: 2 extra skill ranks. Rank 5: 3 extra skills ranks.
- Another passive benefit. When you get the first rank, you get another bonus skill rank. When you get to rank 3, you get yet another one. At rank 5, you have three total skill ranks you just got from this power. So, he has 2 ranks: one more skill rank! Let's adjust. I'll raise Perception by 1 rank.
Acrobatics rank 1, Supernatural Knowledge rank 2, Streetwise rank 2, Insight rank 2, Perception rank 2, Religion and Philosophy rank 1, Nature rank 1, Survival rank 1, Diplomacy rank 1, Bluff rank 2.
More powers, now.
Expert Strike (Str, Dex, or Int) - He's picking Int, by the way.
Supernatural, extraordinary, or technology
Your fighting style makes your attacks a force to be reckoned with.
- This power lets you choose from some different benefits when you get it, including a sneak attack effect. I'll only explain the I picked for Slick.
Focused Target * Rank 1 * At-will * Minor action * Range 10, one creature
The target becomes your focused target. Whenever you deal damage to your focused target, you deal an additional +3 damage, and you gain a +1 bonus to the severity roll. Rank: +1 damage per rank. 3: +2 to the severity roll. 5: +3 to the severity roll.
- This one is a bit more complex. This provides an act you can make. "At-will" means you can use it whenever you want, as long as you have the right kind of action. For this one, it's a minor action, which means it's take little time to do. You can pick as your target any creature in 10 squares of panels in any direction around you. The target doesn't get a chance to resist it, since you're really just designating your focus on it.
This allows you to do +3 damage with any attack on the enemy you picked, then another +1 for every rank. If Slick has rank 2, he deals 3+2 extra damage whenever het hits someone with an attack. When he makes his severity roll, he also gets a +1 to that roll.
That makes 8 of his power ranks that he's used:
Skill Master: Supernatural Knowledge rank 2 (Int), Skill Master: Perception rank 1 (Wis), Skill Master: Insight rank 1 (Wis), Enhanced Intelligence rank 2 (Int), Expert Strike rank 2 (Int)
What else?
Eclectic Knowledge rank 2 (Int), Marksmanship rank 2 (Dex)
I won't go into detail about what these do. But notice that he only had 1 free power rank left, so I had to use three of this feats to give him a total of four more power ranks. He already used four feats to get his extra skills, then three for power ranks. That means he has two feats left. How about:
Weapon Focus (firearm): You gain a +1 feat bonus to damage dealt with attacks made using a firearm.
Lightning Reflexes: You gain a +1 feat bonus to your Reflex defense. At level 11, the bonus becomes +2. At level 21, the bonus becomes +3.
Okay, those are his feats, skills, and powers. That was the meat. Now for the potatoes: stunts.
He has 9 stunt points to spend at level 5. Here's a stunt I made for him:
Trick Shot (+1) * Expert Strike, Marksmanship * You fire where an foe would least likely defend, hitting a blind spot.
- Trick Shot is the name of the stunt. The (+1) is the stunt's point level, which means it's total stunt point cost. Expert Strike and Marksmanship are the powers that define the stunt - this one references two powers at once. The rest is flavor text.
Rank 1 * At-will * Standard action * Ranged, weapon, one creature * Attack: Intelligence vs. Reflex
- You have to have rank 1 in each referenced power to get this stunt. You can use it at-will, by spending a standard action. The range of the attack is the same your weapon's range, and you can pick one target. When you attack, you make an attack roll using your Intelligence. So it's one half your level + the attack bonus of the gun + your Intelligence. You have to roll higher enough to be above the target's Reflex defense.
Success: Deal Weapon + Intelligence damage.
- If you hit the target's Reflex score, you deal damage. The damage is the weapon's base damage (called "Weapon"), then add your Intelligence. Don't forget - after hitting, add in your focused target bonus damage if you hit your focused target!
Another sample stunt, this one not being at-will or passive.
Anticipate (+1) * Skill Master: Insight * You can sense where you opponent will strike through careful observation, deftly sidestepping the blow.
Rank 1 * Encounter * Interrupt * Personal * Trigger: You are hit by an attack * Check: Insight vs. attacker's attack roll
Success: The attack misses.
This one says "encounter." I'm actually looking for a better name than that, but what it means is that it uses up a type of charge. Characters all have encounter charges and daily charges. If an effect is complex or potent enough that it's not easy to use every round, then it takes up one of your charges. You can use the same stunt over and over if you want until you're out of charges, or you can use a different stunt every time you use a charge. You can recover charges, too, but I'll explain more about that later.
Interrupt means the effect resolves before the trigger can resolve. In this case, before the attack has a chance to hit, your stunt gets involved and causes it to automatically miss. However, you have to make an Insight check that is higher than the attack roll! So it pays to have a high Insight modifier.
Okay, so those are two of his stunts (2 points out of 9). I'll let that be it for now. If anyone likes, later I will show the rest of his stunts and give a breakdown on defenses and stuff like that.
One of the most major changes I made from the old system was inpired by BESM, heh.
All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to be the peace that you feel.
All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to fill your heart on my own.
Gaymers | Magic Coffeehouse | Little Jar of Mamelon | Natural 20
How about an ex-barbarian, ex-paladin. They grew up as a barbarian, but eventually decided to search for something more than savagery. They became a paladin, but came to realize that the strict rules limited freedom. Thus you have an exile who is skilled in heavy armor and big weapons; who knows the power of both unthinking fury and rigid discipline, and tries to find the balance between using both. They're also very receptive to learning new philosophies and techniques.
I know, I haven't posted here in a while, but character building has always been one of my favorite activities.
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Im pretty sure Mams could turn out and flesh my concept... but it sounded so silly when i was writting it on paper because it clearly showed what a fanatasy/anime/rpg geek i can be at times
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Ryttare Kelasin Luna Orelinalei
For some fantasy/anime perhaps, but I don't recall seeing that RPed before (not that I've seen all that much roleplaying). Although that seems more like the random accident hero than the self-made heroes that make up the typical RPG. Hmmmm, a symbiote class. That could be interesting.
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I'm not sure if anyone noticed but I moved to [Pages]--but if this place picks up I'll resume the mantle of Clan member here again.
Bitsy: Will take a gander in a bit.
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Ryttare Kelasin Luna Orelinalei
Umm, since no one answered your question yet, I'll pretend I know more than I do and start.
What edition are you using (I'd assume 4E)? What prestige classes are you looking at ('cause I'm only familiar with the 3E ones)?
I would say prestige classes are either for story/RP purposes or for the new and cool abilities. They stunt you're growth in other areas (if I remember correctly....)
One of the gurus should take up you're question soon enough.
Edit: Isn't Ikkaku the bald guy from Bleach?
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Yeah, I was never too big on bows. I mostly chose ranger for the free dual wielding. I actually have the 3.x stuff downloaded as well, so I'll look through that and see what strikes me. (although you may well have more actual RPing experience than me)
Shadowdancer always sounded like a cool prestige class. Assassin sounded cool, too, but they made it evil.
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Still, if you like dual-wielding, go for Dervish. That prestige is insane.
Like freeform roleplaying? Try Darkness Befalls Us
Ryttare Kelasin Luna Orelinalei
Like freeform roleplaying? Try Darkness Befalls Us
Ryttare Kelasin Luna Orelinalei