I hear he has been taking special drugs to get that big.
Hey Alacar, quick D&D question. If I have a Druid and can Wildshape into something that can meet a feat (say using the Complete Devine feat Dragon Wild Shape) can I i take a feat that I would meet the requirements for when Wild Shaped (Such as special Dragon Feats)
Also directed at Photon or anyone else who knows 3rd Ed well enough.
Erm.. I don't think so, because, well, you have to be in wildshape to use that feat, and unless you can stay in wildshape indefinitely, then it doesn't work. You can't have a 'temporary' feat that works only when wildshaped.
I hear he has been taking special drugs to get that big.
Hey Alacar, quick D&D question. If I have a Druid and can Wildshape into something that can meet a feat (say using the Complete Devine feat Dragon Wild Shape) can I i take a feat that I would meet the requirements for when Wild Shaped (Such as special Dragon Feats)
Not to steal Alacar's thunder, but I'm pretty sure the answer is "no."
To explain in more detail- the base character taking the feat (i.e. the druid) doesn't technically qualify for the feat. His dragon form granted by wildshape qualifies, but the base druid does not. So, you shouldn't gain access to special dragon-only feats any more than anyone else could gain access to them by using polymorph effects, which is what wildshape is.
Feats represent special training or personal circumstances that relate to that character only. Wildshaping into a dragon doesn't actually make the druid a dragon, it makes him a human (or elf, or whatever) in the form of a dragon, just as a dragon using it's polymorph ability to take on human form is not actually a human.
I hear he has been taking special drugs to get that big.
Hey Alacar, quick D&D question. If I have a Druid and can Wildshape into something that can meet a feat (say using the Complete Devine feat Dragon Wild Shape) can I i take a feat that I would meet the requirements for when Wild Shaped (Such as special Dragon Feats)
Also directed at Photon or anyone else who knows 3rd Ed well enough.
I believe the answer to be no usually, or if you can take that feat, you may only use it in a form that lets you take the feat in the first place. AKA: You can take a dragon breath feat, but can only use it when you have a breath weapon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alacar Leoricar *Alacar rings the Gong
*Alacar pings Geckomage Please edit your posts, don't double-post. Double shame on you, gecko!!
And yeah, Photon and I agree--Wildshape + Feats do not mix!
*Alacar then gives Mr. Stuff a for post #3000! Omna will give you something special! :mad1: Not me!
Wildshape + Basically anything is a pretty degenerate combo, if you ask me. Of course, I use the official errata on polymorph, so it's less problematic. Just the same, this is an example of why I am against the Druid class- there are far too many ways to cherry pick the most ridiculous options available to monsters through the class.
Private Mod Note
():
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[16:23] Alacar Leoricar: maybe if you do it'll make the porn more meaningful
I intend fully on using it only while in Dragon form, that is the point. And if I Wildshape enough, logically I could familiarize and have time to fully train for it. I see the logic against it but no actual rule against it and it is easy to argue either way.
Dm gives us some leeway so i likely will be able to get away with it, he already let me take Spontaneous Spell-Like Casting (Monster) from Ultimate Feats since I was half Celestial and also had some other granted spell-like abilities he has handed out. I am sure he will allow it.
I intend fully on using it only while in Dragon form, that is the point. And if I Wildshape enough, logically I could familiarize and have time to fully train for it. I see the logic against it but no actual rule against it and it is easy to argue either way.
So... how are you qualifying for the feat, then?
Are you a dragon? Or can you just turn into one? What, were you just gonna wildshape the split second you level up and gain the feat (which would be pretty blatant metagaming, if you ask me), and then, in that split second in which you gain a feat and also happen to have the Dragon creature type, you are gonna apply the training out of nowhere and learn a hot, fresh, happy breath weapon attack?
Sorry to seem hostile, but this sort of decision is basically munchkining. A person who becomes a dragon for a few minutes a day is not equivalent to an actual dragon who has spent years as a dragon, and thus should NOT have access to all the sort of learned tricks and techniques just because the 3.5 rules couldn't accomodate the possibility of some splatbook having rules for relatively oddball dragon-wildshape feats in the future.
Edit: Well, if your DM allows it, it should be fine, but all I know is that the rules really don't support it. You can't take feats you don't qualify for, and just being able to become a dragon through use of a feat doesn't mean that Shin the Druid as a base character qualifies for all dragon feats anymore than dragon would qualify for any of the human-specific class levels from class in Races of Destiny just because he has a human form.
It's probably not a game breaking decision, but it's just THAT sort of thing that really gets up my back... that, and players who shout out metagame knowledge. "The monster is an aboleth! It has X AC! It only has about 30 HP left on average! It's favorite color is purple!"
Many congratulations to Kraj on being modded! You go, boyfriend!
@Names: I have a coworker whose name is Justice. His brother's name is Phoenix. Go fig.
I find that I like names that are sweet and short, Also, I like unisex names. I wish I had one of those - then I wouldn't have to change mine eventually. Names I like include Lee, Kim (incidentally, those are my father's and mother's middle names repsectively), Ray/Raye, Jody, Leigh, Val, Madison, Jamie, Loren, and Kay.
I also think there is something nice about "traditional" sounding names, like Elizabeth, James, Edward, Maria, Temperance, Robert, and Annette. Actually, my middle name is Robert.
Quote from Tanthalas »
Oh, that's such a cheap shot on his part. Trying to deflect attention away from his own problem by either setting you up as a target or trying to show that it happens to lots of people.
I agree.
Quote from White_Rabbit171 »
I finally figured out my sleep cycle length, which is about 5 hours
I heard everyone's sleep cycle can be measured in an odd number of hours - i.e. 3, 5, etc.
I bet my sleep cycle is disgustingly long.
Quote from Shin" »
Here is an article a friend of mine wrote in his blog which I thought would be good for discussion here:
I would make this distinction. Gender normativism, which is the system of social influences and traditions that prescribe normative behaviors and personality traits for people based on their sex, is more comparable to a cult. I believe that gender normativism is the fulcrum that enables the machine of sexism.
However, I believe that the idea of gender, which is manifested by the phenomenon of males and females having certain social and psychological tendencies, is not the same thing, nor is it bad.
Quote from Photon »
Oh, that reminds me of this fall- at my grandmother's birthday party, someone had a baby named "secret". I remember, Mamelon was perplexed and intimidated by this child, who she probably perceived to be a fellow witch.
She just wouldn't stop sleeping . . .
Quote from Shin" »
Sorry my Fleurjade stick had some more swats left in it.
I shall admit something awful. I kind of like the name "Fleurjade."
Quote from Kevin »
good morning everyone! I just lost my first match 1-2 in the legacy tournament. I should've mulliganed the first game since i had 5 lands in my opening hand blah oh well. Anyway see you all soon! Take care and ill respond to people later. Have a great day everyone! *hugs and blows kisses*
Awww, sorry that you lost. *hug*
Quote from Kraj »
On kids names, I'm totally with Photon on this one and incidentally found his posts on the matter both articulate and hilarious. The best "bad name" I've ever heard (as opposed to my ultimate favorite one) was bestowed by Mr. and Mrs. First, who were apparently total hippies, upon their son: Safety.
L. O. L.
Personally, I say we go with the Native American convention: you earn your name and it describes you. Otherwise your name is pretty much just an arbitrary statement about the mental health of your parents.
Yes, I would like that,too.
Quote from Mr. Stuff »
Ask and ye shall recieve. Here are some pictures of Neeki, our dog, a 6 year old black pug. She is, as Mamelon would say, a nugget.
She's not a nugget, she's a jelly bean! Awwww.
@Genshiken: I think I've heard of that, and wanted to watch it. Hee hee, looks cute.
All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to be the light that you see. All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to be the peace that you feel. All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to fill your heart on my own.
But the rainbow is an image of hope for many reasons, as it is a brilliant sight coming out of oftimes dismal weather.
I intend fully on using it only while in Dragon form, that is the point. And if I Wildshape enough, logically I could familiarize and have time to fully train for it. I see the logic against it but no actual rule against it and it is easy to argue either way.
Dm gives us some leeway so i likely will be able to get away with it, he already let me take Spontaneous Spell-Like Casting (Monster) from Ultimate Feats since I was half Celestial and also had some other granted spell-like abilities he has handed out. I am sure he will allow it.
It really is DM approval. I'm more lenient to my PC's, it's our game not my game, so I'll let them do a lot, within reason. That may be why they are totally BROKEN sometimes...but that just means I get to make harder encounters.
*insert evil DM laughter here*
I edited the Double post, sorry guys, didn't realize I would be double posting.
Are you a dragon? Or can you just turn into one? What, were you just gonna wildshape the split second you level up and gain the feat (which would be pretty blatant metagaming, if you ask me), and then, in that split second in which you gain a feat and also happen to have the Dragon creature type, you are gonna apply the training out of nowhere and learn a hot, fresh, happy breath weapon attack?
Sorry to seem hostile, but this sort of decision is basically munchkining. A person who becomes a dragon for a few minutes a day is not equivalent to an actual dragon who has spent years as a dragon, and thus should NOT have access to all the sort of learned tricks and techniques just because the 3.5 rules couldn't accomodate the possibility of some splatbook having rules for relatively oddball dragon-wildshape feats in the future.
Edit: Well, if your DM allows it, it should be fine, but all I know is that the rules really don't support it. You can't take feats you don't qualify for, and just being able to become a dragon through use of a feat doesn't mean that Shin the Druid as a base character qualifies for all dragon feats anymore than dragon would qualify for any of the human-specific class levels from class in Races of Destiny just because he has a human form.
It's probably not a game breaking decision, but it's just THAT sort of thing that really gets up my back... that, and players who shout out metagame knowledge. "The monster is an aboleth! It has X AC! It only has about 30 HP left on average! It's favorite color is purple!"
The DM told us he wanted us to munchkin for this. I normally hate munchkinning myself, but it is what he wants. Meh.
Wildshape does not grant the creatures "type", you stay human. I wont be able to take feats that say "Dragon" as a requirement, but any that say just Breathweapon or whatever are fair game. He tends to lump us XP after every encounter, so gaining a level while Wild Shaped is very possible, regardless of attempting to Metagame it.
Were I playing my Buddy Marc's game or running my own, unless the rules specifically allowed it I it wouldn't be kosher at all. That is the main reason I am asking, for if the situation arrives in one of my games or a more balanced game.
He is throwing some stupid stuff at us mind you, and showing off how powerful his old epic 2nd ed characters are. Mostly it is a fun campaign and I love my character so much, but it has its moments where we want to hit him.
The DM told us he wanted us to munchkin for this. I normally hate munchkinning myself, but it is what he wants. Meh.
Wildshape does not grant the creatures "type", you stay human. I wont be able to take feats that say "Dragon" as a requirement, but any that say just Breathweapon or whatever are fair game. He tends to lump us XP after every encounter, so gaining a level while Wild Shaped is very possible, regardless of attempting to Metagame it.
Were I playing my Buddy Marc's game or running my own, unless the rules specifically allowed it I it wouldn't be kosher at all. That is the main reason I am asking, for if the situation arrives in one of my games or a more balanced game.
He is throwing some stupid stuff at us mind you, and showing off how powerful his old epic 2nd ed characters are. Mostly it is a fun campaign and I love my character so much, but it has its moments where we want to hit him.
Well, then, to completely answer your question: no, you can't legally do it. Any feat that requires the dragon creature type is a no go, and you don't technically have a breath weapon or a flight speed or any special qualities a form might grant any more than a caster using Stoneskin has damage reduction or a manifester using Planar Apotheosis is a celestial. However, if the DM allows it, it's not really a game breaker. Personally, I would be unwilling to waste a feat on something so conditional, especially when playing a class that doesn't get bonus feats.
Private Mod Note
():
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[16:23] Alacar Leoricar: maybe if you do it'll make the porn more meaningful
I get alot of feats, its most of them are exalted (VoP)
Which means I will be turning into a Celestial Dragon :-P
Oh my god... I think I just threw up a little in my mouth... druids and dragon wild shape and draconic feats on humans, and NOW VOP...
Christ, it's like you made a character straight out of my DMing nightmares. What's next, you gonna tell me you slapped him down with Flaws from Unearthed Arcana?
Note: This is not a comment on your character. As everyone who has been in similar conversations with me on this in N20/Entertainment/PnPI, I LOATHE the Druid class, I LOATHE BoED, particularly VOP, I have had games ripped apart by UA Flaws, and ironically, Josh and I once had a very VERY long argument over the gaming table about Dragon Wildshape specifically.
No, no flaws from UA. I forgot about those. I will go look at those tonite. :kidding:
Did I mention she refuses to own/wear clothing as well, Gaea didn't give them to her so she doesn't need them.
I plan on taking Craft Magic Tatoo (Magic) also from Ultimate Feats. With VoP and Spontaneous Spell Like Castings its silly.
No, no flaws from UA. I forgot about those. I will go look at those tonite. :kidding:
Did I mention she refuses to own/wear clothing as well, Gaea didn't give them to her so she doesn't need them.
I plan on taking Craft Magic Tatoo (Magic) also from Ultimate Feats. With VoP and Spontaneous Spell Like Castings its silly.
All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to be the light that you see. All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to be the peace that you feel. All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to fill your heart on my own.
But the rainbow is an image of hope for many reasons, as it is a brilliant sight coming out of oftimes dismal weather.
No, no flaws from UA. I forgot about those. I will go look at those tonite. :kidding:
Did I mention she refuses to own/wear clothing as well, Gaea didn't give them to her so she doesn't need them.
I plan on taking Craft Magic Tatoo (Magic) also from Ultimate Feats. With VoP and Spontaneous Spell Like Castings its silly.
So wrong..so very wrong...but it would so fun too...;)
I'd give you a for such a crazy character, but I don't have that right when I'm down a hole.
Photon, what do you think of the Book of 9 swords? I'm using it right now as a PC, and I've got to say it is quite fun. DMing it would be interesting, so I'm kinda worried what may happen if I keep using it.
<gasp> Kraj! Your name is bolded! You're a mod now?? Gods we're attracting all of the cool mods!
Indeed. I'm proud to say I'll be joining Moss_Elemental and (well, I'll this person speak up for themselves... don't wanna steal anyone's thunder) as a moderator in the Custom Sets & Cards forums. It's a little scary, but I'm excited.
I would make this distinction. Gender normativism, which is the system of social influences and traditions that prescribe normative behaviors and personality traits for people based on their sex, is more comparable to a cult. I believe that gender normativism is the fulcrum that enables the machine of sexism.
However, I believe that the idea of gender, which is manifested by the phenomenon of males and females having certain social and psychological tendencies, is not the same thing, nor is it bad.
Congrats on post count alucard, and don't feel bad, I failed the FCC as well.
Sig by the Great R&Doom!
As for Alucard.. please, please, don't call me that. I might get a Castlevania avvy eventually, but meh..
Like freeform roleplaying? Try Darkness Befalls Us
Ryttare Kelasin Luna Orelinalei
Oh, Alazar, you goon, whatever do you need with a post count that high?
Um...whops...thats embarressing...I was trying to Say Alacar, I sware it..
too many vampires in my D&D games recently.
Sig by the Great R&Doom!
Oh, so close, too.
But it looks like it's the gong for you.
Hey Alacar, quick D&D question. If I have a Druid and can Wildshape into something that can meet a feat (say using the Complete Devine feat Dragon Wild Shape) can I i take a feat that I would meet the requirements for when Wild Shaped (Such as special Dragon Feats)
Also directed at Photon or anyone else who knows 3rd Ed well enough.
The funny thing is, that's still not right... It's Alacar, with an "A".
Also, if anybody missed my edit, watch this (the first part), because it is hilarious.
*Alacar rings the Gong
Better luck next time, Gecko
Like freeform roleplaying? Try Darkness Befalls Us
Ryttare Kelasin Luna Orelinalei
Not to steal Alacar's thunder, but I'm pretty sure the answer is "no."
To explain in more detail- the base character taking the feat (i.e. the druid) doesn't technically qualify for the feat. His dragon form granted by wildshape qualifies, but the base druid does not. So, you shouldn't gain access to special dragon-only feats any more than anyone else could gain access to them by using polymorph effects, which is what wildshape is.
Feats represent special training or personal circumstances that relate to that character only. Wildshaping into a dragon doesn't actually make the druid a dragon, it makes him a human (or elf, or whatever) in the form of a dragon, just as a dragon using it's polymorph ability to take on human form is not actually a human.
I believe the answer to be no usually, or if you can take that feat, you may only use it in a form that lets you take the feat in the first place. AKA: You can take a dragon breath feat, but can only use it when you have a breath weapon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alacar Leoricar
*Alacar rings the Gong
Better luck next time, Gecko
But I changed it!! NOOOOOooooooooo.....
*Falls down trap door*
It's dark down here!!
Sig by the Great R&Doom!
Please edit your posts, don't double-post. Double shame on you, gecko!!
And yeah, Photon and I agree--Wildshape + Feats do not mix!
*Alacar then gives Mr. Stuff a for post #3000! Omna will give you something special! :mad1: Not me!
Like freeform roleplaying? Try Darkness Befalls Us
Ryttare Kelasin Luna Orelinalei
Somehow I ended up getting the 3000th post by accident. I think it's the first time I've gotten one of the big numbers. *munches cookie*
I'ma be offa here pretty soon. Time to get some anime watching done.
Wildshape + Basically anything is a pretty degenerate combo, if you ask me. Of course, I use the official errata on polymorph, so it's less problematic. Just the same, this is an example of why I am against the Druid class- there are far too many ways to cherry pick the most ridiculous options available to monsters through the class.
Dm gives us some leeway so i likely will be able to get away with it, he already let me take Spontaneous Spell-Like Casting (Monster) from Ultimate Feats since I was half Celestial and also had some other granted spell-like abilities he has handed out. I am sure he will allow it.
So... how are you qualifying for the feat, then?
Are you a dragon? Or can you just turn into one? What, were you just gonna wildshape the split second you level up and gain the feat (which would be pretty blatant metagaming, if you ask me), and then, in that split second in which you gain a feat and also happen to have the Dragon creature type, you are gonna apply the training out of nowhere and learn a hot, fresh, happy breath weapon attack?
Sorry to seem hostile, but this sort of decision is basically munchkining. A person who becomes a dragon for a few minutes a day is not equivalent to an actual dragon who has spent years as a dragon, and thus should NOT have access to all the sort of learned tricks and techniques just because the 3.5 rules couldn't accomodate the possibility of some splatbook having rules for relatively oddball dragon-wildshape feats in the future.
Edit: Well, if your DM allows it, it should be fine, but all I know is that the rules really don't support it. You can't take feats you don't qualify for, and just being able to become a dragon through use of a feat doesn't mean that Shin the Druid as a base character qualifies for all dragon feats anymore than dragon would qualify for any of the human-specific class levels from class in Races of Destiny just because he has a human form.
It's probably not a game breaking decision, but it's just THAT sort of thing that really gets up my back... that, and players who shout out metagame knowledge. "The monster is an aboleth! It has X AC! It only has about 30 HP left on average! It's favorite color is purple!"
@Names: I have a coworker whose name is Justice. His brother's name is Phoenix. Go fig.
I find that I like names that are sweet and short, Also, I like unisex names. I wish I had one of those - then I wouldn't have to change mine eventually. Names I like include Lee, Kim (incidentally, those are my father's and mother's middle names repsectively), Ray/Raye, Jody, Leigh, Val, Madison, Jamie, Loren, and Kay.
I also think there is something nice about "traditional" sounding names, like Elizabeth, James, Edward, Maria, Temperance, Robert, and Annette. Actually, my middle name is Robert.
I agree.
I heard everyone's sleep cycle can be measured in an odd number of hours - i.e. 3, 5, etc.
I bet my sleep cycle is disgustingly long.
Gender is a cult, you say?
I would make this distinction. Gender normativism, which is the system of social influences and traditions that prescribe normative behaviors and personality traits for people based on their sex, is more comparable to a cult. I believe that gender normativism is the fulcrum that enables the machine of sexism.
However, I believe that the idea of gender, which is manifested by the phenomenon of males and females having certain social and psychological tendencies, is not the same thing, nor is it bad.
She just wouldn't stop sleeping . . .
I shall admit something awful. I kind of like the name "Fleurjade."
Awww, sorry that you lost. *hug*
L. O. L.
Yes, I would like that,too.
She's not a nugget, she's a jelly bean! Awwww.
@Genshiken: I think I've heard of that, and wanted to watch it. Hee hee, looks cute.
All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to be the peace that you feel.
All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to fill your heart on my own.
Gaymers | Magic Coffeehouse | Little Jar of Mamelon | Natural 20
It really is DM approval. I'm more lenient to my PC's, it's our game not my game, so I'll let them do a lot, within reason. That may be why they are totally BROKEN sometimes...but that just means I get to make harder encounters.
*insert evil DM laughter here*
I edited the Double post, sorry guys, didn't realize I would be double posting.
Sig by the Great R&Doom!
The DM told us he wanted us to munchkin for this. I normally hate munchkinning myself, but it is what he wants. Meh.
Wildshape does not grant the creatures "type", you stay human. I wont be able to take feats that say "Dragon" as a requirement, but any that say just Breathweapon or whatever are fair game. He tends to lump us XP after every encounter, so gaining a level while Wild Shaped is very possible, regardless of attempting to Metagame it.
Were I playing my Buddy Marc's game or running my own, unless the rules specifically allowed it I it wouldn't be kosher at all. That is the main reason I am asking, for if the situation arrives in one of my games or a more balanced game.
He is throwing some stupid stuff at us mind you, and showing off how powerful his old epic 2nd ed characters are. Mostly it is a fun campaign and I love my character so much, but it has its moments where we want to hit him.
Well, then, to completely answer your question: no, you can't legally do it. Any feat that requires the dragon creature type is a no go, and you don't technically have a breath weapon or a flight speed or any special qualities a form might grant any more than a caster using Stoneskin has damage reduction or a manifester using Planar Apotheosis is a celestial. However, if the DM allows it, it's not really a game breaker. Personally, I would be unwilling to waste a feat on something so conditional, especially when playing a class that doesn't get bonus feats.
Which means I will be turning into a Celestial Dragon :-P
Oh my god... I think I just threw up a little in my mouth... druids and dragon wild shape and draconic feats on humans, and NOW VOP...
Christ, it's like you made a character straight out of my DMing nightmares. What's next, you gonna tell me you slapped him down with Flaws from Unearthed Arcana?
Note: This is not a comment on your character. As everyone who has been in similar conversations with me on this in N20/Entertainment/PnPI, I LOATHE the Druid class, I LOATHE BoED, particularly VOP, I have had games ripped apart by UA Flaws, and ironically, Josh and I once had a very VERY long argument over the gaming table about Dragon Wildshape specifically.
Did I mention she refuses to own/wear clothing as well, Gaea didn't give them to her so she doesn't need them.
I plan on taking Craft Magic Tatoo (Magic) also from Ultimate Feats. With VoP and Spontaneous Spell Like Castings its silly.
*pats Photon's hand* There, there, don't cry . . .
All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to be the peace that you feel.
All that I yearn for, for richer or poorer, is to fill your heart on my own.
Gaymers | Magic Coffeehouse | Little Jar of Mamelon | Natural 20
So wrong..so very wrong...but it would so fun too...;)
I'd give you a for such a crazy character, but I don't have that right when I'm down a hole.
Photon, what do you think of the Book of 9 swords? I'm using it right now as a PC, and I've got to say it is quite fun. DMing it would be interesting, so I'm kinda worried what may happen if I keep using it.
Sig by the Great R&Doom!
Indeed. I'm proud to say I'll be joining Moss_Elemental and (well, I'll this person speak up for themselves... don't wanna steal anyone's thunder) as a moderator in the Custom Sets & Cards forums. It's a little scary, but I'm excited.
Thanks!
Nicely said (as always).
That is indeed awful.
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.