In my opinion, the subgames in the Final Fantasy series have been a little hit and miss. FF7's minigames were largely miss; G-bike was fun for a little while, but the chocobo racing game, which yielded much larger rewards, is tiresome. Most of the other minigames are very minor. The card games in eight and nine were nice, but blitzball (FFX's game) was incredibly superficial.
In my opinion, the subgames in the Final Fantasy series have been a little hit and miss. FF7's minigames were largely miss; G-bike was fun for a little while, but the chocobo racing game, which yielded much larger rewards, is tiresome. Most of the other minigames are very minor. The card games in eight and nine were nice, but blitzball (FFX's game) was incredibly superficial.
Yeah i remember playing the chocobo racing game quite alot back then because I wanted to get the golden chocobo so i can get the knights of the round materia. I think i got like majority of the cards in ff8 but it isnt that hard if you like traveling in the world of final fantasy which i often like to do just in case i get too bored with the game.:p
About the Pen and Paper Inn. I'm wondering if the party slots will always be in place.
I.E.
We need a rogue, a warrior, a wizard, a priest.
I'm basically asking; is this steryotypical layout the norm for long campaigns too? Are people going to be able to play whatever they want, or will we generally have to adhear to the warrior, healer, rogue, caster layout?
I'm assuming this is something just for the tutorials, but I have to ask. I personally would much rather people play whatever character they want, and just accept the harsh truth if a particular roll isn't fufilled.
About the Pen and Paper Inn. I'm wondering if the party slots will always be in place.
I.E.
We need a rogue, a warrior, a wizard, a priest.
I'm basically asking; is this steryotypical layout the norm for long campaigns too? Are people going to be able to play whatever they want, or will we generally have to adhear to the warrior, healer, rogue, caster layout?
I'm assuming this is something just for the tutorials, but I have to ask.
For long campaigns, I much prefer leaving the players to have total freedom in choosing characters. I'd only require the stereotypical party roles in one-shot adventures.
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there are ways to play without certain types but it requires a bit of thinking from the DM. Generally the party will have problems without someone that can heal, they can also experience difficulties without a tank/semi-tank and a arcane caster makes a lot of encounters and tasks much easier, etc. Variety simply rewards itself. But yeah, the only thing I use to enforce is for there to be someone that can heal, if not they will have to use tons on potions and such.
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there are ways to play without certain types but it requires a bit of thinking from the DM. Generally the party will have problems without someone that can heal, they can also experience difficulties without a tank/semi-tank and a arcane caster makes a lot of encounters and tasks much easier, etc. Variety simply rewards itself. But yeah, the only thing I use to enforce is for there to be someone that can heal, if not they will have to use tons on potions and such.
Hehe, well, I've been playing D&D for 16 years now. I've seen a lot of different situations come and go. I was asking about this particular groups mentality.
Shaharazad: I ran a successful long campaign IRL (that I'm gonna run online soon) where we had 2 Sorcerers, a Rogue, a Cleric, a Ranger, and a Bard. No real warrior class, and a lot of spells flying around. Then 2 more NPCs joined them later on--a Bard and a Fighter/Wizard/Spellsword. But the campaign was a success--because everyone acknowledged that there was no real warrior tank. (There was an NPC paladin the first few sessions but I got tired of playing him).
So in campaigns, I think it doesn't matter. In one-shots, it's good to cover your bases.
Alright guys, it's time for another edition of The Weekly Underdog!
This week's game is a Japan-only title released by Square for the SNES in its twilight years. That game is Rudra no Hihou, or Treause of the Rudras.
Rudra no Hihou
Developed/Published by Squaresoft for the Super Famicom
Released 4/5/96
Back in the day, Square used to be pretty creative. They seemed to take their cue from Enix, developing a lot of RPGs that were different; games that pushed the envelope and made people think and play differently. Rudra no Hihou is one such game - an amazing piece of history that never saw its way to American shores simply because it was "too different."
The first thing players would realize upon sliding this baby into their Super Famicoms is that Rudra didn't play the same way other RPGs of the time had. Whereas in more traditional games you gather your party and go a'hunting the evil nemesis through a pretty tried and true narrative, Rudra did things differently in almost every way. You control three characters to begin with - Scion the fighter, Surlent the magic-user, and Riza the druidic gish. These people meet and interact with each other during the course of the story, but they never, ever fight together. Their destinies are intertwined, but dramatically different, and in the end their stories are told separately, for the player to pick up and play through them in any way they wish.
Rudra no Hihou tells the story of a world unnamed, on the brink of apocalypse. Aeons ago, races of great magical beings existed - the giants, reptiles, Dannans, and mermaids. These races kept the balance of the world and kept it well, until humans were thrown into the formula. This was when the world began to decay; when pollution, war, and famine became cursors to everyday existence. The old races died off or left the humans to die, and they've been able to eek out a very poor existence since then, but the end is coming soon. Scion, Surlent, and Riza have sixteen days before the world ends. That's right; the story of Rudra no Hihou is told in only sixteen days' time - no more than two and a half months altogether counting the four scenarios that are or become available to you. Because of this little detail, the story flows very well, and there's never a dull moment to be had. Well, unless you count the hours you can spend making your own spells.
Another revolutionary and sometimes nittling thing about Rudra no Hihou is the magic system, referred to as "mantra." Probably the largest stumbling block towards the game's localization, Rudra's spells are built on syllables and sounds put together by none other than the player. Power issues arise from this, of course; it's possible to access the most powerful mantras in the game on level one. MP costs can skyrocket, though, so this is easily balanced out. Although the magic system can be intimidating (especially when playing the game without the available English patches), it can also be incredibly fun. When the cartridge's AI can't find any mantra effects to attach your verbal concoction to, for example, what you end up with is a non-elemental attack mantra whose animation is your word flying violently across the screen. This makes for some odd but very effective spells, as well as a sense of personalization that most games of Rudra's time just didn't have.
In fact, personalization seems to be the ultimate goal of Rudra's entire play experience. It's pretty much a guarantee that two people playing through the game at once won't have the same experience, and that's always a good thing for an RPG. Although the game doesn't boast a lot of replay value, it does have a hell of a lot of originality to offer, and in the end that's a more valuable prize to find insde a little cartridge. Anyone can find something to love about Rudra no Hihou, from the innovative mantra system to the gripping and classic story, even the kick-ass soundtrack. Hell, at the end of the day this anti-FFer put down the controller and said "gee. This game is actually good." I think that speaks volumes.
Unfortunately, there are only two options for American gamers to enjoy Rudra no Hihou; either learn Japanese and import or emulate it with the English patch. If you really want to experience this game, though, I'd highly recommend seeking it out in some form; who knows, maybe we'll see it on Nintendo's online shop for the Wii's virtual console some time. One can only hope; great RPGs like this deserve to be played and played all over again.
Nice i never played rudra before ethersphere even though i should check it out sometime probably will be alot better if i can download an emulator and then download the rom for this game.:) I am going to finish enchanted arms and final fantasy 12 before I do though well hopefully i will be able to download it.:p Thanks for sharing the game ethersphere. Well i am going to head to bed so i see you all soon.
Shaharazad: I ran a successful long campaign IRL (that I'm gonna run online soon) where we had 2 Sorcerers, a Rogue, a Cleric, a Ranger, and a Bard. No real warrior class, and a lot of spells flying around. Then 2 more NPCs joined them later on--a Bard and a Fighter/Wizard/Spellsword. But the campaign was a success--because everyone acknowledged that there was no real warrior tank. (There was an NPC paladin the first few sessions but I got tired of playing him).
Hehe nice. One of my favorite examples is when we started the third chapter in our extremly long sword coast game. It's high level, but since we were starting a new "book" the GM gave us the option of making a new, high-level character. I made my metamage, Cewellin. We also had a bard/priest and another mage. Well, our first mission was extremely dangerous and the GM worked in a fighter NPC to tank for us. But the three spellcasters worked in such harmony together that there was literally no danger. Well, to us at least. I think the fighter npc died We lost a little tempo trying to help him not die, but other than that....
I liked the NPC a lot though.. So I had Cewellin wish him back to life. Cew isn't high enough to actually cast wish, but I spent a long time inscribing it onto a scroll and then cast it with the %chance of spell failure for using a higher level scroll. I called in a favor with a priestess of Isis so she could help my chances with a probability control spell and it was as success.
While I do typically suggest that a party covers their bases, I don't enforce it. I've played games with variety, and games without variety- one campaign of mine had 4 characters: 3 divine casters, and a psychic warrior.
If the players all end up picking classes that have redundant roles, then they need to understand that they will have certain weaknesses. In the above mentioned campaign, I spammed traps all over the places- we're talking trapped doors, trapped floors, trapped windows, trapped chests, trapped books, trapped chickens, trapped barmaids, trapped EVERYTHING.
If it required a Ref save, they died to it. However, they had healing out the wazoo, and so it was alright. Anyway, my point is, if a party is unbalanced, they will have glaring weaknesses but also increased strength in one area, so it all works out- and as the DM, you need to tailor the campaign to suit the abilities presented by the players so that it remains challenging and exciting, but also gives them an avenue for success.
Also, never forget the magic of bringing in NPCs to fill a void.
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This is just one more reason why I think the DMPC is a good idea. I've found that my DMPCs have been useful for a few reasons; extra firepower when it's needed, another participant in party conversations when things get dull, a way to fill a role the rest of the party neglects at character creation, and a nice subtle way to get people going where they need to when they get stuck. It's very possible to play a DMPC without it turning into overpowered metagaming, too. Photon, Mamelon and myself do it all the time =)
I don't think the party Photon's talking about was all that weird, though. Sure, reflex saves were a little sparse, but I'm such a dice Jesus that I ended up passing mine anyway, heh. Mica was such a good character, and the main reason why I adore Psychic Warriors.
Very good "article," ethersphere. I'm more than a little interested in seeing this game now! I'm probably going to to go the emulation route though...
As for party organization, I tend towards trying to find parties that are nontraditional that work. Like monk/paladin/bard/ranger...which looks like a pretty comprehensive party even if it's desperate to cover up the fact that it has no cleric.
And have you guys seen this guy's work on 3.5 modding? He does an excellent job of seeing and fixing things about the game that "don't work at all." The link is to his profile: his works are linked in the spoiler in his sig.
Very good "article," ethersphere. I'm more than a little interested in seeing this game now! I'm probably going to to go the emulation route though...
As for party organization, I tend towards trying to find parties that are nontraditional that work. Like monk/paladin/bard/ranger...which looks like a pretty comprehensive party even if it's desperate to cover up the fact that it has no cleric.
And have you guys seen this guy's work on 3.5 modding? He does an excellent job of seeing and fixing things about the game that "don't work at all." The link is to his profile: his works are linked in the spoiler in his sig.
No, I don't think I have run into K, but I actually don't spend a grand amount of time in the Homebrew forums, which may explain that.
Meanwhile, that party doesn't have a cleric, it's true, but all 4 characters have some degree of healing, which means that when it comes to mending the basic scrapes and bruises, they would be pretty well off- although hurtly badly for the higher level clerical spells such as Remove Curse and Resurrection.
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Wamyc: My second campaign will be heavily modded. I will mostly use some mods created by a friend of mine and it will be interesting. It will have 7 base stats (each with two parts) and a lot of things will be moved around. I will also add 3-4 skills and a new save. And alot of other things
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Quote from Nietzsche »
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No, I don't think I have run into K, but I actually don't spend a grand amount of time in the Homebrew forums, which may explain that.
Meanwhile, that party doesn't have a cleric, it's true, but all 4 characters have some degree of healing, which means that when it comes to mending the basic scrapes and bruises, they would be pretty well off- although hurtly badly for the higher level clerical spells such as Remove Curse and Resurrection.
Right. I can accept that healing is important enough to require it to be part of any party. But too many derivative classes suffer from the "and you'd be wise to include a non-derivative(fighter/cleric/wizard/thief) class that does the same thing in your party as well" syndrom.
What's the point of a mixed class if it can't match up and has to be backed up by a non-mixed class? I think the biggest problem in D&D3.5 is the brokenness of magic. Magic isn't just supernatural in effect, it's powerful on a scale nothing else can compete with; it's irreplacable, powerful, and necessary. They made no attempt to balance magic and non-magic. {For the purpeses of this point, psionics is a kind of magic.}
Right. I can accept that healing is important enough to require it to be part of any party. But too many derivative classes suffer from the "and you'd be wise to include a non-derivative(fighter/cleric/wizard/thief) class that does the same thing in your party as well" syndrom.
What's the point of a mixed class if it can't match up and has to be backed up by a non-mixed class? I think the biggest problem in D&D3.5 is the brokenness of magic. Magic isn't just supernatural in effect, it's powerful on a scale nothing else can compete with; it's irreplacable, powerful, and necessary. They made no attempt to balance magic and non-magic. {For the purpeses of this point, psionics is a kind of magic.}
Believe me, the brokenness of magic is a common complaint of 3.5 fans- although, psionics is on the whole more balanced than magic, but it still lends itself to that "all parties require an individual who can bend reality and pull randomly amazing crap out of his ass at any time or you will die to anything over CR 9" trend.
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Believe me, the brokenness of magic is a common complaint of 3.5 fans- although, psionics is on the whole more balanced than magic, but it still lends itself to that "all parties require an individual who can bend reality and pull randomly amazing crap out of his ass at any time or you will die to anything over CR 9" trend.
*ahem* i feel an urge to pop in here... isnt this in basically ALL D&D? not just 3.5? Levels 1-10 are usually fighter territory, but come level 11, wizards, sorcerer's and other such classes usually start to take a big lead over the rest. at level 20, it's always seemed like Wizard for everything, fighter... to just soak up trap damage.
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*ahem* i feel an urge to pop in here... isnt this in basically ALL D&D? not just 3.5? Levels 1-10 are usually fighter territory, but come level 11, wizards, sorcerer's and other such classes usually start to take a big lead over the rest. at level 20, it's always seemed like Wizard for everything, fighter... to just soak up trap damage.
hahaha, who uses traps on level 20?
But yeah, you are correct. The fighter is 100% front loaded, the wizard is entirely backloaded, and it's always been this way. However, I speak from my experience as a 3.5 fan, who speaks and interacts with other 3.5 fans. I'm sure it's the case in other editions.
If you are looking for a balanced system of magic in which fighters and magicians are on an even keel, check out Blue Rose or True20 System. That's some snazzy stuff right there.
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yeah, D&D in general tends to over-emphasize magic. Not only does magic deal the best damage, but it also gets every other useful effect. Fighters and other dedicated warrior classes start being nothing more that professional meat shields after a while.
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yeah, D&D in general tends to over-emphasize magic. Not only does magic deal the best damage, but it also gets every other useful effect. Fighters and other dedicated warrior classes start being nothing more that professional meat shields after a while.
Hell, damage is just a side effect. No one cares about damage past a certain point. Once spellcasters get into their save or die effects, damage just becomes irrelevant- which is why the evoker is widely considered the weakest specialized wizard school.
However, let's not sit and dwell on the problems with the system. It has a lot of good qualities, too.
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The melee/caster thing really isn't a problem. It is up to the DM to balance things out and make sure that each of the players get to use their abilities. Like if if the casters are getting all the fun let them meet a team of Ravage Maulers in a place where the spellcasters can't fly off.
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The melee/caster thing really isn't a problem. It is up to the DM to balance things out and make sure that each of the players get to use their abilities. Like if if the casters are getting all the fun let them meet a team of Ravage Maulers in a place where the spellcasters can't fly off.
The problem with this approach is that many people complain that the only way to handle out of control casters and preserve challenge is to be really heavy handed- usually through the use of antimagic fields, which nerfs not only the casters, but usually everyone else due to their dependance on magic items on higher levels.
However, the magic using classes are really out of balance in late game, but we aren't talking Black Lotus level broken here. It's still fairly easy to screw a caster up, and the broken builds require a good deal of experience and insight- and a DM and concept that allows it.
Yes, the Cleric/Druid/Wizard are powerful. They also have more responsibility to the party than any other class. The cleric needs spell slots to heal, and can't just charge in and beat the crap out of everything, as he needs to be healthy and available to support. The Wizard can go nova, but his utility spells are very important on all levels- things like teleport, remove curse, and other spells are an absolute necessity for a party past a certain point. Usually, casters really only get of hand in the case of particularly selfish players, or when built in a vacuum.
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Yeah i remember playing the chocobo racing game quite alot back then because I wanted to get the golden chocobo so i can get the knights of the round materia. I think i got like majority of the cards in ff8 but it isnt that hard if you like traveling in the world of final fantasy which i often like to do just in case i get too bored with the game.:p
I.E.
We need a rogue, a warrior, a wizard, a priest.
I'm basically asking; is this steryotypical layout the norm for long campaigns too? Are people going to be able to play whatever they want, or will we generally have to adhear to the warrior, healer, rogue, caster layout?
I'm assuming this is something just for the tutorials, but I have to ask. I personally would much rather people play whatever character they want, and just accept the harsh truth if a particular roll isn't fufilled.
For long campaigns, I much prefer leaving the players to have total freedom in choosing characters. I'd only require the stereotypical party roles in one-shot adventures.
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Hehe, well, I've been playing D&D for 16 years now. I've seen a lot of different situations come and go. I was asking about this particular groups mentality.
So in campaigns, I think it doesn't matter. In one-shots, it's good to cover your bases.
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This week's game is a Japan-only title released by Square for the SNES in its twilight years. That game is Rudra no Hihou, or Treause of the Rudras.
Rudra no Hihou
Developed/Published by Squaresoft for the Super Famicom
Released 4/5/96
Back in the day, Square used to be pretty creative. They seemed to take their cue from Enix, developing a lot of RPGs that were different; games that pushed the envelope and made people think and play differently. Rudra no Hihou is one such game - an amazing piece of history that never saw its way to American shores simply because it was "too different."
The first thing players would realize upon sliding this baby into their Super Famicoms is that Rudra didn't play the same way other RPGs of the time had. Whereas in more traditional games you gather your party and go a'hunting the evil nemesis through a pretty tried and true narrative, Rudra did things differently in almost every way. You control three characters to begin with - Scion the fighter, Surlent the magic-user, and Riza the druidic gish. These people meet and interact with each other during the course of the story, but they never, ever fight together. Their destinies are intertwined, but dramatically different, and in the end their stories are told separately, for the player to pick up and play through them in any way they wish.
Rudra no Hihou tells the story of a world unnamed, on the brink of apocalypse. Aeons ago, races of great magical beings existed - the giants, reptiles, Dannans, and mermaids. These races kept the balance of the world and kept it well, until humans were thrown into the formula. This was when the world began to decay; when pollution, war, and famine became cursors to everyday existence. The old races died off or left the humans to die, and they've been able to eek out a very poor existence since then, but the end is coming soon. Scion, Surlent, and Riza have sixteen days before the world ends. That's right; the story of Rudra no Hihou is told in only sixteen days' time - no more than two and a half months altogether counting the four scenarios that are or become available to you. Because of this little detail, the story flows very well, and there's never a dull moment to be had. Well, unless you count the hours you can spend making your own spells.
Another revolutionary and sometimes nittling thing about Rudra no Hihou is the magic system, referred to as "mantra." Probably the largest stumbling block towards the game's localization, Rudra's spells are built on syllables and sounds put together by none other than the player. Power issues arise from this, of course; it's possible to access the most powerful mantras in the game on level one. MP costs can skyrocket, though, so this is easily balanced out. Although the magic system can be intimidating (especially when playing the game without the available English patches), it can also be incredibly fun. When the cartridge's AI can't find any mantra effects to attach your verbal concoction to, for example, what you end up with is a non-elemental attack mantra whose animation is your word flying violently across the screen. This makes for some odd but very effective spells, as well as a sense of personalization that most games of Rudra's time just didn't have.
In fact, personalization seems to be the ultimate goal of Rudra's entire play experience. It's pretty much a guarantee that two people playing through the game at once won't have the same experience, and that's always a good thing for an RPG. Although the game doesn't boast a lot of replay value, it does have a hell of a lot of originality to offer, and in the end that's a more valuable prize to find insde a little cartridge. Anyone can find something to love about Rudra no Hihou, from the innovative mantra system to the gripping and classic story, even the kick-ass soundtrack. Hell, at the end of the day this anti-FFer put down the controller and said "gee. This game is actually good." I think that speaks volumes.
Unfortunately, there are only two options for American gamers to enjoy Rudra no Hihou; either learn Japanese and import or emulate it with the English patch. If you really want to experience this game, though, I'd highly recommend seeking it out in some form; who knows, maybe we'll see it on Nintendo's online shop for the Wii's virtual console some time. One can only hope; great RPGs like this deserve to be played and played all over again.
Hehe nice. One of my favorite examples is when we started the third chapter in our extremly long sword coast game. It's high level, but since we were starting a new "book" the GM gave us the option of making a new, high-level character. I made my metamage, Cewellin. We also had a bard/priest and another mage. Well, our first mission was extremely dangerous and the GM worked in a fighter NPC to tank for us. But the three spellcasters worked in such harmony together that there was literally no danger. Well, to us at least. I think the fighter npc died
I liked the NPC a lot though.. So I had Cewellin wish him back to life. Cew isn't high enough to actually cast wish, but I spent a long time inscribing it onto a scroll and then cast it with the %chance of spell failure for using a higher level scroll. I called in a favor with a priestess of Isis so she could help my chances with a probability control spell and it was as success.
If the players all end up picking classes that have redundant roles, then they need to understand that they will have certain weaknesses. In the above mentioned campaign, I spammed traps all over the places- we're talking trapped doors, trapped floors, trapped windows, trapped chests, trapped books, trapped chickens, trapped barmaids, trapped EVERYTHING.
If it required a Ref save, they died to it. However, they had healing out the wazoo, and so it was alright. Anyway, my point is, if a party is unbalanced, they will have glaring weaknesses but also increased strength in one area, so it all works out- and as the DM, you need to tailor the campaign to suit the abilities presented by the players so that it remains challenging and exciting, but also gives them an avenue for success.
Also, never forget the magic of bringing in NPCs to fill a void.
I don't think the party Photon's talking about was all that weird, though. Sure, reflex saves were a little sparse, but I'm such a dice Jesus that I ended up passing mine anyway, heh. Mica was such a good character, and the main reason why I adore Psychic Warriors.
As for party organization, I tend towards trying to find parties that are nontraditional that work. Like monk/paladin/bard/ranger...which looks like a pretty comprehensive party even if it's desperate to cover up the fact that it has no cleric.
And have you guys seen this guy's work on 3.5 modding? He does an excellent job of seeing and fixing things about the game that "don't work at all." The link is to his profile: his works are linked in the spoiler in his sig.
No, I don't think I have run into K, but I actually don't spend a grand amount of time in the Homebrew forums, which may explain that.
Meanwhile, that party doesn't have a cleric, it's true, but all 4 characters have some degree of healing, which means that when it comes to mending the basic scrapes and bruises, they would be pretty well off- although hurtly badly for the higher level clerical spells such as Remove Curse and Resurrection.
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I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
Right. I can accept that healing is important enough to require it to be part of any party. But too many derivative classes suffer from the "and you'd be wise to include a non-derivative(fighter/cleric/wizard/thief) class that does the same thing in your party as well" syndrom.
What's the point of a mixed class if it can't match up and has to be backed up by a non-mixed class? I think the biggest problem in D&D3.5 is the brokenness of magic. Magic isn't just supernatural in effect, it's powerful on a scale nothing else can compete with; it's irreplacable, powerful, and necessary. They made no attempt to balance magic and non-magic. {For the purpeses of this point, psionics is a kind of magic.}
Believe me, the brokenness of magic is a common complaint of 3.5 fans- although, psionics is on the whole more balanced than magic, but it still lends itself to that "all parties require an individual who can bend reality and pull randomly amazing crap out of his ass at any time or you will die to anything over CR 9" trend.
*ahem* i feel an urge to pop in here... isnt this in basically ALL D&D? not just 3.5? Levels 1-10 are usually fighter territory, but come level 11, wizards, sorcerer's and other such classes usually start to take a big lead over the rest. at level 20, it's always seemed like Wizard for everything, fighter... to just soak up trap damage.
hahaha, who uses traps on level 20?
But yeah, you are correct. The fighter is 100% front loaded, the wizard is entirely backloaded, and it's always been this way. However, I speak from my experience as a 3.5 fan, who speaks and interacts with other 3.5 fans. I'm sure it's the case in other editions.
If you are looking for a balanced system of magic in which fighters and magicians are on an even keel, check out Blue Rose or True20 System. That's some snazzy stuff right there.
Hell, damage is just a side effect. No one cares about damage past a certain point. Once spellcasters get into their save or die effects, damage just becomes irrelevant- which is why the evoker is widely considered the weakest specialized wizard school.
However, let's not sit and dwell on the problems with the system. It has a lot of good qualities, too.
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Just add me on msn if you have any questions or just want to talk
The problem with this approach is that many people complain that the only way to handle out of control casters and preserve challenge is to be really heavy handed- usually through the use of antimagic fields, which nerfs not only the casters, but usually everyone else due to their dependance on magic items on higher levels.
However, the magic using classes are really out of balance in late game, but we aren't talking Black Lotus level broken here. It's still fairly easy to screw a caster up, and the broken builds require a good deal of experience and insight- and a DM and concept that allows it.
Yes, the Cleric/Druid/Wizard are powerful. They also have more responsibility to the party than any other class. The cleric needs spell slots to heal, and can't just charge in and beat the crap out of everything, as he needs to be healthy and available to support. The Wizard can go nova, but his utility spells are very important on all levels- things like teleport, remove curse, and other spells are an absolute necessity for a party past a certain point. Usually, casters really only get of hand in the case of particularly selfish players, or when built in a vacuum.