It's probably safe to say that nearly everyone here has already been offended. Negative comments made so far regarding Christians have been extremely mild compared to negative comments made about homosexuals. People don't really like others disagreeing with them, especially since most tend to phrase their disagreements as statements of fact rather than statements of feeling.
Actually, I haven't been offended at all ;). I've found I'm very slow to get upset about things when I'm in a fair mood, I innately believe that either a) the offending party is speaking out of a misunderstanding of some kind or b) they're joking. When I'm in an especially sane mood I remind myself that I don't even care.
Although personally I'd say pentacostals are by far the closest to truth among other types of christianity[/sarcasm]
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I'll bet you wish you had a non-unglued/unhinged card that shared your first name.
I kinda feel bad about evening mentioning the whole homosexuality thing. I feel like I opened the floodgates a bit too much, which in turn created a heated debate. Lets discuss something more pertinent, like how good looking I am or something....
Anyway, yeah, so anyone who would like to be a friend to my clan or help me get it off the ground, please pm me. I would really like help in coming up with a wicked name, and a cool banner idea. Just let me know.
And while I was at work, I decided what I am going to play in the current standard environment. And that deck is ( drum roll please)........."This Girl!" Thanks to the helpful suggestion of another person here ( and you know who you are), I am going to play the deck Flores played. It looks good ( would probably look tons better completely foil, dont you think?), and from what I have heard from various people, it is extremely viable. Why not? I will give it a try.
How about you call your clan "A gathering of angels"
Alacar needs help! He's been doing so much other stuff that he's neglecting the Core set!
What's left in Core: 9 blue uncommons
9 blue rares
9 black uncommons
3 black rares
7 red rares
4 green commons
5 green uncommons
5 green rares
9 common artifacts
I will post what's in Core so far if anyone wants to know.
Well, I'm glad I missed the ****storm that just subsided. I hate it when those topics happen.
Anyway, my day was good. We had relatives over to my house for a belated Hanukkah gathering. Both of my uncles were there (one on my dad's side and the other on my mom's side). All of my cousins were there with their kids, and I pretty much played with them the whole time they were there. I can pretty much tell what kind of people that they're going to be when they grow up (the ones that are over four, anyway). They're all good kids (except two of them are being raised to be Boston sports fans because one of my cousins lives in Lowell, Mass. :mad:) My other cousin and one of my uncles both gave me $50 Best Buy gift cards, so now I have $340 worth of gift cards to there. Two of my younger cousins (ages 9 and 7), however, have $900 of Best Buy cards between them. They're planning on buying a Wii (lucky guys) and some other stuff.
Right now I'm in the city, where I think I'll stay until I go back to school.
I haven't been made to feel offended, but I should be careful with that; a lot of times I say 'I'm a Christian and I don't mind hearing or reading X', when X is something that would really bother other Christians. Still, it's nice that everyone seems very occupied with making sure that other people aren't made to feel uncomfortable.
As a Christian, I'm a little bothered that 'the Christian viewpoint' is often represented on debate-style shows by someone who's at least a little bit nuts. (Probably unfair, but it's fair to say that no one individual can represent every member of a particular religion, or even most of them on most issues.) One place this crops up a lot is in the 'debate' over whether homosexuality is inborn, learned, or a choice. (The dominant scientific theory seems to be that there it's possible to be genetically predisposed to it and that it's shaped during development, but I'm no expert.)
The 'Christian' viewpoint is often presented as such: homosexuality is a choice. I would assume that the reasons for calling it a choice regardless of any evidence for or against this have to do with ease of condemnation. It's fair to condemn someone for stealing, because I don't think anyone would argue that theft isn't to a great extent a person's choice. If homosexuality is a choice, it feels much fairer to condemn people for it.
@MW: Well have alot of fun with your relatives and happy new year! I am very glad to hear your day was good and my day was not that bad either.
@white drop of honey:neat a drop of honey in white I think that card would be pretty good in UW control decks.
@Debate about religion and homosexuality: I am not going to be a part of the debate. I am pretty terrible at debating anyway.
@2QT: I will be a friend to your clan as well if thats ok with you that is.
Well I am going to have some dinner and probably play some video games i found my resident evil 4 game for gamecube so i could be playing that tonight as well. I will still be on aol messenger currently and also until pretty late tonight if anyone wants to talk to me just send me a message.
Have a goodnight everyone! Enjoy your new year everyone and happy new years! *hugs everyone in the coffeehouse* See you all tommorrow!
Oh no! I missed most of the discussion that I started! I'd first like to say that I don't think we should stop talking about this. I find it very fun and helpful for me, at least, to deepen my thoughts and expand my ideas. Everyone seems afraid to discuss issues like these, but I really do think that discussing them can help all of us to think about things differently, or at least understand other peoples' perspectives. Like I stated before, my faith is an extremely important part of my life, so I tend to get kind of insulted when people make statements about it that are either wrong or that I disagree with. I will try as hard as I can to avoid getting mad at anyone or make stupid comments like I've done before. I really love discussions about religion and whatnot, so I hope that they do not stop just because some people are sensitive about it. I think that if everyone can be civil and not put down other people, we can have a good discussion.
@Mamelon: Wow. That is quite a post you've got there, and I actually read all of it too :). While I understand where you are coming from, I'd like to respond to some things that you said in order for clarification and to explain my own thoughts on the subject. Ok, let's go, and hopefully it won't be too long.
Quote from Mamelon »
Firstly, I ask: what motivates you to maintain this believe? Why do you feel this way?
Secondly: what, in your mind, is the reason that this is so? Or, more specifically, how would you explain why you believe homosexuality is wrong?
Ok, well first, I will start off my saying that I am only 16 years old, and while that should not prevent me from having a trustworthy opinion, it does mean that I am still working out my thoughts and ideas, and I am still not sure of what I believe in my life. Of course, I do have many strong beliefs, but many of these come from things that I have learned from my parents and my church, and not from personal experiences. Nevertheless, I do feel strongly about certain things. Anyway, getting on to the questions:
First Question: Like I said, one of the reasons that I believe that homosexuality is a sin is because that is what I have been taught in my church and is generally what my parents believe. Now right there, I know a lot of you are probably going to discard my opinion because you have biases against churches or what they teach, but I hope you do not, because I really do trust it. My church is Presbyterian, which is a Protestant denomination. Our views on sex, at least, are very different than the Catholic views as Mamelon expained them. We do not look at sex as only a tool for reproduction, but as a way to bond a man and a woman who are married. It is perfectly okay to have sex using a condom or other birth control as long as it is with your spouse because it is the tool that God created to make a man and a woman one. My pastor explained it like this: When Adam was created, God realized that he needed a partner to be with him, because none of the other animals were suitable. So he took out one of Adam's ribs and used it to create Eve (keep in mind that this is purely metaphorical). The only way for Adam and Eve to unite was through sex, in which they would bond and become one with each other. I think this is my main reasoning for believing homosexuality, or at least homosexual sex, as a sin. God created woman so that they could partner with man, and through sex, become one with him.
And I guess that kind of answered the second question also.
The Catholic belief concerning homosexuality is perhaps the most clear-cut. The Catholic Church teaches that being homosexual is not either wrong, unnatural, or abominable in any way. However, the Church teaches that engaging in homosexual sex is sinful. This is because of the Catholic doctrine concerning the character of sex, and its position as a mechanism specifically designed to have signifiance as an interaction between the two sexes, and as a reproductive device. Generally, the Church teaches that sexual contact (and indeed, sexual stimulation at all) that cannot result in reproduction is selfish (the implication being that reason you are even doing it is because you are tying to get pleasure and are not using sex in a healthy way).
Like I said above, I disagree with this belief, and my church, at least, conisders sex not only a means for reproduction, but also a way to unite a man and a woman.
If being attracted to people of the same sex as you is what is most natural, then running from that, probably damaging your potential for healthy sexual/romantic dynamic and general self-esteem in the process, is going to accomplish more harm than good. Non-dualistic sexual and gender roles catalyze diversity and awareness to the benefit of society. Homosexuality itself is an aspect of intrapersonal androgyny, which is theoretically not an undesirable thing (see above). It really seems that what is or can be good about accepting homosexuality as good and natural outweigh the benefit gained from following contentious moral ideas such as I listed above.
While this idea does seem to make a lot of sense, when you think about it, it does not seem to work. You say that "If being attracted to people of the same sex as you is what is most natural, then running from that...is going to accomplish more harm than good." Well, there are many things in life that are "natural" for people, but are not good things at all. For many people, rape is a "natural" thing to do, but that is not a good thing. The same goes for things like alchohalism, greed, lust, and pretty much all other sins. But just because we, as human beings, have a natural urge to do these things does not mean that they are necessarily good to do. That is the very nature of sin, as my church teaches it, at least. Sin is something that the Devil uses to tempt people to do things that are immoral because they feel "natural."
Now, I realize that in arguing that homosexuality is a sin, I am comparing it to things, like greed and rape, that may be very offensive to gay people. I am really not trying to do this. An example I can think of that makes it seem less harsh is gossiping. While some may want to disagree with this, gossiping is sin, at least from what I have learned. Yet tons of people seem to do it none the less, because it does not seem like a bad thing. Tons of times I have had the urge to gossip because, truthfully, it is fun and I, like many others, enjoy doing it. This can kind of compare to homosexuality. It is something that many people, especially those who are part of it, do not believe is a sin because it is natural and there is nothing that tells them it is wrong. But in reality, at least in my opinion, it is a sin and should not be done. I hope you understand what I am trying to say.
Quote from Omna »
The reason I am considering joining the Catholic faith is because of things solely to do with the Catholic faith, not simply only Christian values, but rather, those that I find common only in Catholicism... and i really don't particularly appreciate being told what to do with my faith, despite the fact you may not have been trying to do such. There's still a great many things I'm exploring, but what i ultimately decide to do is ultimately MY choice, not yours... Besides this, what Arguas said is overall fairly accurate.. I detest it when people attempt to force faith upon others...it is actually sad...
I do not know if I was part of "forcing faith upon you," but if I was, I am extremely sorry. It was not my intent to do that. Nevertheless, not only to you but others, do not be surprised if I try to challenge your points of view on religion or explain my beliefs to you. As a Christian, I find that it is my duty to spread the word of God to others so that they may experience Him. While I do not want to force religion onto anybody, as that would defeat the purpose, I will not be ashamed to influence somebody to try out Christianity, because I truly think that if it is done right, no one can back away from it. So if anyone feels pressured by me to try Christianity, I probably meant it to be that way. I'm sorry if anyone is mad about that, but it is what I believe.
Seriously, the topic of religion is kind of depressing and quite volatile... especially for a place like the Coffeehouse... I would actually prefer we not talk about this kind of thing, just to spare people's feelings, as I've already come close to slightly taking offense, due to my father and Arguas being Catholic, and I just personally feel strongly about certain things, and I COULD ramble on and on about my particular beliefs, but I don't really want to, honestly.
I actually don't find the topic of religion to be depressing or volatile at all. While it may be offensive to people sometimes, I do not think that it is depressing at all. I find it quite exilerating to talk about religion and faith. And please, I, at least, would love to hear you ramble on about certain beliefs, but if you do not want to, that is okay.
Quote from SnoopDoggAtog »
Some Protestant groups have more of an individualistic, materialistic mindset and some do not require any act of charity or compassion at all. While they may have the benefit of a more indulgent and liberal set of beliefs and values, they don't seem to me as cohesive or supportive. There's definitely a bit of class consciousness even among Protestants - you don't often see an inner-city Lutheran church serving impoverished Lutherans the same way you see the African churches and Catholics with their kitchens and charity drives.
Whoa. That's actually the first thing that has offended me in all of this. Maybe my church is just different, but there is no way that all Protestant groups are like that. My church has done so many things for others it is unbelievable. We have sent millions of dollars to Ethiopia to help AIDS victims, and we have spent hours and hours doing things locally and around the world to help others. Maybe we just aren't Protestant, but our church has an unbelievable amount of charity and compassion. And it is definitely "cohesive and supportive."
Quote from Mamelon »
It's really not fair to speak your piece on the matter and say "let's not talk about this anymore, I might be offended." It's probably safe to say that nearly everyone here has already been offended. Negative comments made so far regarding Christians have been extremely mild compared to negative comments made about homosexuals. People don't really like others disagreeing with them, especially since most tend to phrase their disagreements as statements of fact rather than statements of feeling.
QFT. Nothing else to say, really.
Thank you. What can I say, I get into stuff.
Unfortunately, I doubt many people even read it. Oh, well.
I did!
Quote from 2QT2BSTR8 »
I kinda feel bad about evening mentioning the whole homosexuality thing. I feel like I opened the floodgates a bit too much, which in turn created a heated debate. Lets discuss something more pertinent, like how good looking I am or something....
Don't feel bad. I love discussing about this kind of stuff, and I think it is a very healthy thing to have these discussions.
Well, I think that's everything, and I must say, this post turned out to be much longer than I expected it to be. Sorry about that guys, I just really felt like I needed to say what I did. To end it, I want to say something, which I will put in all bold because I don't want people to not read it.
I know what I have said in this post may offend many people here, and I am extremely sorry about that. What I said is truly what I believe. I just want everyone to know that I have absolutely no prejudice against homosexual people. I hope that people do not think lower of me because of what I said.
By the way, this is exactly the kind of things I envision my clan to talk about, if it works, which at this point, seems unlikely.
In light of a recent IM with Omna and my own feelings of responsibility in some ways I think I should say the following:
First and foremost, everyone, pat yourselves on the back for keeping this convo mostly civil and not really a fullout debate. Debate threads for that and its good to see its mostly been "starter opinions" if I may say so myself on that.
Secondly, I'm not discouraging any freedom of speech by saying this - feel free to post what you feel like at the time and we'll definitely listen - but sensitive topics aren't overly encouraged on here altho they are welcome if you feel its been a part of your life. The reason isn't to drown down your feelings on such matter but instead to keep this place from going all flammy - I'm not so much afraid of that as Omna is - as I've said I'm fairly pleased with the convo so far.
I do understand her grief on this tho because one second these things are nice and civil and then all of a sudden someone says something that gets interpreted wrong and SHAZAM - word fight! See what almost happened to Kraj's quote a page or 10 ago. So all I'm saying is that if you're gonna do it make sure you read and double read what you're typing and quoting. And use common sense for the most part. Negative comments are bad! Real bad.
Just a friendly reminder from the coffeehouse regulars and staff.
Edit: Oh and throw your hands in the air and wave em like you just don't care for Alacar's missing cards.
Im really not sure what to say about the whole religion debate, but due to the fact that im not big on religion nor do I have the willpower to remain awake and type out a large response, as well as the fact I feel we should get off this topic, I will not say anymore.
So, tonight was very fun. For those who didnt know, we pretty much held day 2 of our 3 day LAN party at my house...it was hell wiring everything, but a complete blast once we got everything working. I didnt actually play much LAN games (we had Starcraft, Warcraft III and a couple consoles hooked up), but I did eat a huge amount of food, and played Guitar Hero 2 for about 3 hours straight, in which me and a friend did all of cooperatvie mode on expert...and now my hands are burning like hell.
Alacar: I really wish to say some cards that I would like to see, but im a bit too brainfryed and tired currently to actually mess around and check out what would work and what would not. I will try to do it tomorrow, that ok?
Again, I greatly apologize for any contribution I've made to unpleasantness. I was honestly not trying to be argumentative.
Which is why I'm not going to say any piece about the topic of homosexuality. I can generally carry on a civil conversation with someone about the topic as long as they remain civil with me. But I agree that this topic really should be in debate. Unfortunately that's also pretty much a death curse for civility, so if anyone would prefer to converse with me on the subject, feel free to PM.
Alacar.... 9 common artifacts? Yikes! With the number of gold cards in the set, mana fixing will be very important. You've got plenty of duals and the Ingot, but I'd suggest more. Wayfarer's Bauble, maybe? The Myrs could be a good inclusion as well. Hehe.... and how about Lotus Petal? The spellbombs are also nice commons, I think. Vulshok Morningstar and Viridian Longbow are nice equipment options.
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The Golden Rule of forums: If you're going to be rude, be right. If you might be wrong, be polite.
*Sigh* I'm being bombarded with nasty PMs from this person who I've apparently struck a nerve with. It has something to do with the Debate thread and one of the more... shall I say, controversial views I hold there. I'm not going to get into the details but he said he's bent on getting me banned, so I took some action. I don't wish that he gets banned himself, but it's just annoying that I'm trying to explain my rationale and he keeps freaking out. It reminds me of that Cloudsong YTMND with the guy trying to be calm with this dude who's freaking out.
Bedtime for me. Also, since it's that time of year: what are your plans for New Year's Eve? I called a couple of friends and they haven't called back (they probably won't), so I'll just be alone. I will, however, go to Best Buy tomorrow and get my new iPod.
Honestly, I haven't seen much unpleasantness here. I enjoy a good argument, and this one was kept fairly civil.
I have work tomorrow at 8:00am, meaning I need to leave the house by 7:30am. At the present time, it is 1:00am. Eep. I'm still sitting here, having just dragged myself out of an 8 hour session of Marvel: Ultimate Alliance. Well, in all honesty, rather than "dragged myself out", I should say it ended because I beat the game. Everyone was around level 32 by the time I beat Odin-ified Dr. Doom, and Iceman was dishing out some serious damage with Blizzard and Polar Explosion. Deadpool just wouldn't die - he kept regenerating like a mo'fo, and was often the only character left in my party. Once he defeated Loki by himself after everyone else died early on. I unlocked Nick Fury and the "Hard" difficulty, so now I guess I get to play through the game again. *rubs hands together in anticipation*
I have to mention the plot of this game. It involves Dr. Doom teaming up with Loki and getting help from Mephisto, all to steal Odin's powers. You know, Odin, king of the gods, father of Thor? After that, Doom sort of remakes the world in his image, whilst you get teleported away to the moon by the Watchers. Somewhere in the midst of this you find time to save Lilandra and the entire Shi'ar empire and to team up with Silver Surfer to fight Galactus, the world-devourer. Talk about epic!
Tomorrow I only have work until 2:30pm due to my work switch, after which we're taking my stepdad out to a new bar-&-grill-style restaurant for his birthday. After that, I'll probably sleep for a few hours and then wake up for New Year's. We have the first off, so I'll probably begin my second playthough of M:UA then. I'll definitely change my team, but I just haven't decided what to yet. I'm tempted to go with Collossus, Ms. Marvel, The Thing, and Luke Cage, since they get a nice +15 striking bonus for the team "Bruisers". Then again, the "Weapons Specialist" team, which is Deadpool, Nick Fury, Blade, and Captain America, also gets a nice bonus, so I'm a bit torn. I also like Iron Man and Iceman, and I haven't even tried Human Torch yet... Hrmm. Decisions, decisions.
I'll definitely have more time to stop in on New Year's day, since I'm not working then. See you all later.
Alacar needs help! He's been doing so much other stuff that he's neglecting the Core set!
What's left in Core: 9 blue uncommons
9 blue rares
9 black uncommons
3 black rares
7 red rares
4 green commons
5 green uncommons
5 green rares
9 common artifacts
I will post what's in Core so far if anyone wants to know.
Tomorrow (now today), I think I'm going to my aunt and uncle's little party. Then I'm probably heading over to some friends for a party, if it's not too big. I hate big parties with oodles of alcohol. I'm generally not trusting of new people and feel they need to earn trust and not have it handed to them. Alcohol just makes matters worse, because it changes people. I generally don't drink for medical reasons anyway. Last year I helped the said friends set up for a party of about 30 people, but I refused to go because I only knew the hosts. I'm not sure if that's lame or not, but it's just my opinion. (Feel free to add your two cents, three even!) The town is relatively small, so chances of the party being broken up are pretty high as well. It's all in all an odd situation. I'm sure if it's less than ten people I'll be fine. If not, I'll either come home or head back out to relatives. We don't really have the fireworks thing, since we live so far out in the country. Anyway, that was a pretty long pointless rant.
I'm not much into the holiday season yet. Christmas weather was a huge bummer. I love snow and we haven't had any to speak of. However, we've had way too much rain. A girl on campus is from Seattle and she was whining the other day about how much rain we were getting in Michigan. That's sorta sad. From early November on, all that rain would normally have been snow.
I would like to wish everyone a very Happy New Year. May you have many blessings and good times.
First and foremost, everyone, pat yourselves on the back for keeping this convo mostly civil and not really a fullout debate. Debate threads for that and its good to see its mostly been "starter opinions" if I may say so myself on that.
Agreed. I think it's not difficult to talk about controversial or potentially touchy things as long as things aren't framed as a debate. (Not that it isn't possible for debate to be civil, of course.) The idea (not actually raised by anyone) that any discussion of faith belongs in debate strikes me as cynical; I'd rather discuss my faith and what other people believe than debate about it. At the same time, I recognize that such discussion is walking on eggshells; a poor word choice or a misreading can send a discussion spiraling into an argument.
That's kind of why I was interested in forming the clan based on Christianity. I thought it would be a great way for people to discuss their faith and different aspects of it in a civilized manner. And now that I think of it, it definitely would not be only open to Christians. Anyone could join as long as they promised to be open-minded and kind. I don't know, it probably wouldn't work, but it sounds like a nice idea.
My family and I are going to a friends house tomorrow for a New Year's Eve party. It should be fun, as it's a great group of people. Plus, I'll get to see my friends that are in college and are visiting for break.
Well, good night everyone. I hope I didn't offend anyone with what I said before, and that everyone got something out of it. I really do enjoy these discussions, but I understand that this is not the best place to have them. Have a good night's sleep everyone!!
Spending some time at home, relaxing with one of my best girlfriends and maybe having a glass or two of wine and just watching TV and playing games most likely.. then sometime, probably talking to Arguas since we've agreed to talk on New Years' Day.... on New Years Day I will also probably be going over to my grandma's house to spend time with family... Other than that not a whole lot...
In other news, today I just spent way too much money on books! Which was bad...but then again...its books! And I managed to get a better copy of Wild ARMs 3, so i'm excited to play that, finally... hopefully THIS game won't have a buncha scratches on it... the CD doesn't look too bad.. a bit scuffed but not deep scratches like the other one did...
I've been doing a lot of thinking... Am glad for these things and realizations that i've had about a lot of personal things.. Nothin' really related to anything huge.. just some stuff i've realized about myself. -- Anywayyyy... Thinkin' I want to resume reading, and I'm having a great talk with one of my good friends from high school (also one of my exes but one that i'm extremely close to, today...)
Anyhoo, have a great New Years.. i'll probably be online tmw.. if anyone wants to catch me on AIM, i'm usually on at LiteratureCrazy.. either that, or just call or send me a text message at 585-317-2712 Take it easy folks , enjoy the holiday! You deserve it:)
Although personally I'd say pentacostals are by far the closest to truth among other types of christianity[/sarcasm]
How about you call your clan "A gathering of angels"
I actually thought about that, and I like it, but I want to get a general concensus on what would be a good name.
my trade thread:http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=327326
I want to thank R&Doom for my signature. Thanks a lot!
In other news, the P&PI is abuzz with activity. If you want to play D&D or other role playing games, then pop on by!
Like freeform roleplaying? Try Darkness Befalls Us
Ryttare Kelasin Luna Orelinalei
Anyway, my day was good. We had relatives over to my house for a belated Hanukkah gathering. Both of my uncles were there (one on my dad's side and the other on my mom's side). All of my cousins were there with their kids, and I pretty much played with them the whole time they were there. I can pretty much tell what kind of people that they're going to be when they grow up (the ones that are over four, anyway). They're all good kids (except two of them are being raised to be Boston sports fans because one of my cousins lives in Lowell, Mass. :mad:) My other cousin and one of my uncles both gave me $50 Best Buy gift cards, so now I have $340 worth of gift cards to there. Two of my younger cousins (ages 9 and 7), however, have $900 of Best Buy cards between them. They're planning on buying a Wii (lucky guys) and some other stuff.
Right now I'm in the city, where I think I'll stay until I go back to school.
As a Christian, I'm a little bothered that 'the Christian viewpoint' is often represented on debate-style shows by someone who's at least a little bit nuts. (Probably unfair, but it's fair to say that no one individual can represent every member of a particular religion, or even most of them on most issues.) One place this crops up a lot is in the 'debate' over whether homosexuality is inborn, learned, or a choice. (The dominant scientific theory seems to be that there it's possible to be genetically predisposed to it and that it's shaped during development, but I'm no expert.)
The 'Christian' viewpoint is often presented as such: homosexuality is a choice. I would assume that the reasons for calling it a choice regardless of any evidence for or against this have to do with ease of condemnation. It's fair to condemn someone for stealing, because I don't think anyone would argue that theft isn't to a great extent a person's choice. If homosexuality is a choice, it feels much fairer to condemn people for it.
So I think my friends and I are gonna start up a band Although none of us can sing.... YYZ and Jessica here we come
Winner of Weekly Contest 46!
@white drop of honey:neat a drop of honey in white I think that card would be pretty good in UW control decks.
@Debate about religion and homosexuality: I am not going to be a part of the debate. I am pretty terrible at debating anyway.
@2QT: I will be a friend to your clan as well if thats ok with you that is.
Well I am going to have some dinner and probably play some video games i found my resident evil 4 game for gamecube so i could be playing that tonight as well. I will still be on aol messenger currently and also until pretty late tonight if anyone wants to talk to me just send me a message.
Have a goodnight everyone! Enjoy your new year everyone and happy new years! *hugs everyone in the coffeehouse* See you all tommorrow!
Love,
Cecilia
@Mamelon: Wow. That is quite a post you've got there, and I actually read all of it too :). While I understand where you are coming from, I'd like to respond to some things that you said in order for clarification and to explain my own thoughts on the subject. Ok, let's go, and hopefully it won't be too long.
Ok, well first, I will start off my saying that I am only 16 years old, and while that should not prevent me from having a trustworthy opinion, it does mean that I am still working out my thoughts and ideas, and I am still not sure of what I believe in my life. Of course, I do have many strong beliefs, but many of these come from things that I have learned from my parents and my church, and not from personal experiences. Nevertheless, I do feel strongly about certain things. Anyway, getting on to the questions:
First Question: Like I said, one of the reasons that I believe that homosexuality is a sin is because that is what I have been taught in my church and is generally what my parents believe. Now right there, I know a lot of you are probably going to discard my opinion because you have biases against churches or what they teach, but I hope you do not, because I really do trust it. My church is Presbyterian, which is a Protestant denomination. Our views on sex, at least, are very different than the Catholic views as Mamelon expained them. We do not look at sex as only a tool for reproduction, but as a way to bond a man and a woman who are married. It is perfectly okay to have sex using a condom or other birth control as long as it is with your spouse because it is the tool that God created to make a man and a woman one. My pastor explained it like this: When Adam was created, God realized that he needed a partner to be with him, because none of the other animals were suitable. So he took out one of Adam's ribs and used it to create Eve (keep in mind that this is purely metaphorical). The only way for Adam and Eve to unite was through sex, in which they would bond and become one with each other. I think this is my main reasoning for believing homosexuality, or at least homosexual sex, as a sin. God created woman so that they could partner with man, and through sex, become one with him.
And I guess that kind of answered the second question also.
Like I said above, I disagree with this belief, and my church, at least, conisders sex not only a means for reproduction, but also a way to unite a man and a woman.
While this idea does seem to make a lot of sense, when you think about it, it does not seem to work. You say that "If being attracted to people of the same sex as you is what is most natural, then running from that...is going to accomplish more harm than good." Well, there are many things in life that are "natural" for people, but are not good things at all. For many people, rape is a "natural" thing to do, but that is not a good thing. The same goes for things like alchohalism, greed, lust, and pretty much all other sins. But just because we, as human beings, have a natural urge to do these things does not mean that they are necessarily good to do. That is the very nature of sin, as my church teaches it, at least. Sin is something that the Devil uses to tempt people to do things that are immoral because they feel "natural."
Now, I realize that in arguing that homosexuality is a sin, I am comparing it to things, like greed and rape, that may be very offensive to gay people. I am really not trying to do this. An example I can think of that makes it seem less harsh is gossiping. While some may want to disagree with this, gossiping is sin, at least from what I have learned. Yet tons of people seem to do it none the less, because it does not seem like a bad thing. Tons of times I have had the urge to gossip because, truthfully, it is fun and I, like many others, enjoy doing it. This can kind of compare to homosexuality. It is something that many people, especially those who are part of it, do not believe is a sin because it is natural and there is nothing that tells them it is wrong. But in reality, at least in my opinion, it is a sin and should not be done. I hope you understand what I am trying to say.
I do not know if I was part of "forcing faith upon you," but if I was, I am extremely sorry. It was not my intent to do that. Nevertheless, not only to you but others, do not be surprised if I try to challenge your points of view on religion or explain my beliefs to you. As a Christian, I find that it is my duty to spread the word of God to others so that they may experience Him. While I do not want to force religion onto anybody, as that would defeat the purpose, I will not be ashamed to influence somebody to try out Christianity, because I truly think that if it is done right, no one can back away from it. So if anyone feels pressured by me to try Christianity, I probably meant it to be that way. I'm sorry if anyone is mad about that, but it is what I believe.
I actually don't find the topic of religion to be depressing or volatile at all. While it may be offensive to people sometimes, I do not think that it is depressing at all. I find it quite exilerating to talk about religion and faith. And please, I, at least, would love to hear you ramble on about certain beliefs, but if you do not want to, that is okay.
Whoa. That's actually the first thing that has offended me in all of this. Maybe my church is just different, but there is no way that all Protestant groups are like that. My church has done so many things for others it is unbelievable. We have sent millions of dollars to Ethiopia to help AIDS victims, and we have spent hours and hours doing things locally and around the world to help others. Maybe we just aren't Protestant, but our church has an unbelievable amount of charity and compassion. And it is definitely "cohesive and supportive."
QFT. Nothing else to say, really.
I did!
Don't feel bad. I love discussing about this kind of stuff, and I think it is a very healthy thing to have these discussions.
Well, I think that's everything, and I must say, this post turned out to be much longer than I expected it to be. Sorry about that guys, I just really felt like I needed to say what I did. To end it, I want to say something, which I will put in all bold because I don't want people to not read it.
I know what I have said in this post may offend many people here, and I am extremely sorry about that. What I said is truly what I believe. I just want everyone to know that I have absolutely no prejudice against homosexual people. I hope that people do not think lower of me because of what I said.
By the way, this is exactly the kind of things I envision my clan to talk about, if it works, which at this point, seems unlikely.
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First and foremost, everyone, pat yourselves on the back for keeping this convo mostly civil and not really a fullout debate. Debate threads for that and its good to see its mostly been "starter opinions" if I may say so myself on that.
Secondly, I'm not discouraging any freedom of speech by saying this - feel free to post what you feel like at the time and we'll definitely listen - but sensitive topics aren't overly encouraged on here altho they are welcome if you feel its been a part of your life. The reason isn't to drown down your feelings on such matter but instead to keep this place from going all flammy - I'm not so much afraid of that as Omna is - as I've said I'm fairly pleased with the convo so far.
I do understand her grief on this tho because one second these things are nice and civil and then all of a sudden someone says something that gets interpreted wrong and SHAZAM - word fight! See what almost happened to Kraj's quote a page or 10 ago. So all I'm saying is that if you're gonna do it make sure you read and double read what you're typing and quoting. And use common sense for the most part. Negative comments are bad! Real bad.
Just a friendly reminder from the coffeehouse regulars and staff.
Edit: Oh and throw your hands in the air and wave em like you just don't care for Alacar's missing cards.
So, tonight was very fun. For those who didnt know, we pretty much held day 2 of our 3 day LAN party at my house...it was hell wiring everything, but a complete blast once we got everything working. I didnt actually play much LAN games (we had Starcraft, Warcraft III and a couple consoles hooked up), but I did eat a huge amount of food, and played Guitar Hero 2 for about 3 hours straight, in which me and a friend did all of cooperatvie mode on expert...and now my hands are burning like hell.
Alacar: I really wish to say some cards that I would like to see, but im a bit too brainfryed and tired currently to actually mess around and check out what would work and what would not. I will try to do it tomorrow, that ok?
Night all.
In seriousness, I honestly think a better place for this would be debate.
Core Set so far
(cards are subject to change)
White
Blue
Black
Red
Green
Multicolor
Artifact
Lands
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Ryttare Kelasin Luna Orelinalei
Which is why I'm not going to say any piece about the topic of homosexuality. I can generally carry on a civil conversation with someone about the topic as long as they remain civil with me. But I agree that this topic really should be in debate. Unfortunately that's also pretty much a death curse for civility, so if anyone would prefer to converse with me on the subject, feel free to PM.
Alacar.... 9 common artifacts? Yikes! With the number of gold cards in the set, mana fixing will be very important. You've got plenty of duals and the Ingot, but I'd suggest more. Wayfarer's Bauble, maybe? The Myrs could be a good inclusion as well. Hehe.... and how about Lotus Petal? The spellbombs are also nice commons, I think. Vulshok Morningstar and Viridian Longbow are nice equipment options.
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
Like freeform roleplaying? Try Darkness Befalls Us
Ryttare Kelasin Luna Orelinalei
Bedtime for me. Also, since it's that time of year: what are your plans for New Year's Eve? I called a couple of friends and they haven't called back (they probably won't), so I'll just be alone. I will, however, go to Best Buy tomorrow and get my new iPod.
I have work tomorrow at 8:00am, meaning I need to leave the house by 7:30am. At the present time, it is 1:00am. Eep. I'm still sitting here, having just dragged myself out of an 8 hour session of Marvel: Ultimate Alliance. Well, in all honesty, rather than "dragged myself out", I should say it ended because I beat the game. Everyone was around level 32 by the time I beat Odin-ified Dr. Doom, and Iceman was dishing out some serious damage with Blizzard and Polar Explosion. Deadpool just wouldn't die - he kept regenerating like a mo'fo, and was often the only character left in my party. Once he defeated Loki by himself after everyone else died early on. I unlocked Nick Fury and the "Hard" difficulty, so now I guess I get to play through the game again. *rubs hands together in anticipation*
I have to mention the plot of this game. It involves Dr. Doom teaming up with Loki and getting help from Mephisto, all to steal Odin's powers. You know, Odin, king of the gods, father of Thor? After that, Doom sort of remakes the world in his image, whilst you get teleported away to the moon by the Watchers. Somewhere in the midst of this you find time to save Lilandra and the entire Shi'ar empire and to team up with Silver Surfer to fight Galactus, the world-devourer. Talk about epic!
Tomorrow I only have work until 2:30pm due to my work switch, after which we're taking my stepdad out to a new bar-&-grill-style restaurant for his birthday. After that, I'll probably sleep for a few hours and then wake up for New Year's. We have the first off, so I'll probably begin my second playthough of M:UA then. I'll definitely change my team, but I just haven't decided what to yet. I'm tempted to go with Collossus, Ms. Marvel, The Thing, and Luke Cage, since they get a nice +15 striking bonus for the team "Bruisers". Then again, the "Weapons Specialist" team, which is Deadpool, Nick Fury, Blade, and Captain America, also gets a nice bonus, so I'm a bit torn. I also like Iron Man and Iceman, and I haven't even tried Human Torch yet... Hrmm. Decisions, decisions.
I'll definitely have more time to stop in on New Year's day, since I'm not working then. See you all later.
I choose you, Gargantuan Gorilla!
Always wanted him to be reprinted
And Epic struggle Always wondered if there could be a deck with it as a win con.
EDIT: If epic struggle came in I would make A Mono green combo deck with beacon of creation. wow that'd be fun.
I'll be watching fireworks aswell with some freinds i havent seen in a while.
Like freeform roleplaying? Try Darkness Befalls Us
Ryttare Kelasin Luna Orelinalei
I'm not much into the holiday season yet. Christmas weather was a huge bummer. I love snow and we haven't had any to speak of. However, we've had way too much rain. A girl on campus is from Seattle and she was whining the other day about how much rain we were getting in Michigan. That's sorta sad. From early November on, all that rain would normally have been snow.
I would like to wish everyone a very Happy New Year. May you have many blessings and good times.
~Dreia
Happy New Year, everyone!
My family and I are going to a friends house tomorrow for a New Year's Eve party. It should be fun, as it's a great group of people. Plus, I'll get to see my friends that are in college and are visiting for break.
Well, good night everyone. I hope I didn't offend anyone with what I said before, and that everyone got something out of it. I really do enjoy these discussions, but I understand that this is not the best place to have them. Have a good night's sleep everyone!!
Magic Coffeehouse pwns.
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In other news, today I just spent way too much money on books! Which was bad...but then again...its books! And I managed to get a better copy of Wild ARMs 3, so i'm excited to play that, finally... hopefully THIS game won't have a buncha scratches on it... the CD doesn't look too bad.. a bit scuffed but not deep scratches like the other one did...
I've been doing a lot of thinking... Am glad for these things and realizations that i've had about a lot of personal things.. Nothin' really related to anything huge.. just some stuff i've realized about myself. -- Anywayyyy... Thinkin' I want to resume reading, and I'm having a great talk with one of my good friends from high school (also one of my exes but one that i'm extremely close to, today...)
Anyhoo, have a great New Years.. i'll probably be online tmw.. if anyone wants to catch me on AIM, i'm usually on at LiteratureCrazy.. either that, or just call or send me a text message at 585-317-2712 Take it easy folks , enjoy the holiday! You deserve it:)
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