The deck is looking very nice, stinkweed imp is a definate allstar against ledgewalker....combined with the fact that you will yourself be dredging and will likely see him faster makes the deck run much smoother.
As for sideboard, I still think you should run 4 shred memory in the sideboard, as that will help against that matchup and should be tech.
Sideboard choices. Shred Memory for the games against Harvester. Ledgewalker to pull off the Harvester combo if need be. 4x of each.
But, what next? Guardian of the Guildpact? This is one of the few decks that could run Guardian AND Shambling Shell. That would give nearly everyone fits. This idea sounds so appealing to me that I think I gotta do it. 4x.
Anti-artifact? Ancient Grudge, Icefall, Plunder, Shatter, Smash, Tin Street Hooligan?
Both? Molder, Naturalize, Sundering Vitae? I think Molder is the the way to go. Instant, hits artifacts or enchantments, and gets me life. 3x and I'm done?
Suggestions?
Side note: The way that I typically approach a deck is to think of how I want it to play, how I want it to win. At that point I usually have a few core cards in mind. Then, I build a rough draft of the deck, play a few rounds, look for holes in the deck. This is where I go to http://magiccards.info/search/ to do a search for basically any card within the format which does what I need. That explains the pile of choices above.
as for the sideboard, I would run Sundering Vitae over molder, I think the ability to be able to tap creatures and play it on your opponents turn when you are tapped out is more worthwhile than gaining life. Not to mention all those saprolings should make it an easy cast. Specifically against the pacifism type spells (fetters, pillory, plumes), it can really ruin their plan, when they enchant your creature while you are tapped out, and you tap that creature to remove the enchantment at their eot.
The idea of having Guardian in your sideboard flat out scares me. It is a really cool idea and a definate shock (not the burn spell) to whoever you are playing (of course other than us as we all know what you are doing).
I would agree with ruinedlaw. Sundering Vitae or Naturalize both strike me as superior to Molder. I'm not sure exactly what artifacts you're fearing. I think Ronom Unicorn may be the best bet yet.
Well, Polyjak's right, I can't think of a single artifact that bothers me in the current environment.
And, once again, I find myself at a crossroads.
The idea of a GotG + Shambling Shell and Silhana Ledgewalker with Grim Harvest backup is downright frightening to me. But, that's a tri-color aggro deck, not The Rock.
I think Thrill of the Hunt will be a huge addition to this deck. Don't get me wrong, I like Wildsize. If I dredge it, great. If I draw it, even better. This deck was born after a discussion with Eegag. Orzhov and Harvester are the best decks, right? Why not play both?
That is if it works. :/ I'll do some testing tonight and let you know.
That is one deck I would not want to play against, Haloscope. Ever.
It looks really good, and I don't think mana-fixing will be a problem. Good call with Prismatic Lens, I think it fits well in this deck. The only question marks I have with the deck are the Stinkweed Imps, Thrill of the Hunts, and the single Disembowel.
I actually feel Stinkweed Imp is the right call in this metagame. However, if the deck ever needs to go a more aggressive route, I'd suggest Trespasser il-Vec or Wormwood Dryad. I'm just not sure if Thrill of the Hunt packs enough punch. However, it can often act as a cheap counterpsell against Last Gasp or Shock. As for the Disembowel ... maybe a Last Gasp or Assassinate instead?
I like black,green, red, blue (I like some of blue but hate control style decks (I never got into white, I have built decks with white but just doens't do anything for me).
I been on a madness addiction for a long time now. I usually like offensive style decks. Also I am not big into decks that allow the person on the other side of the table benefit from my deck (such as enhancing draw power or mana).
I do enjoy weenie horde style type decks. I am still kinda looking around.
Macdeemac, sounds like you might get into trying a Sliver deck, or perhaps a suicide/sligh deck. Also, the number of blue "aggro" cards is higher than average in this new set, so if you're interested in a or deck with an aggro edge, that might be a direction to take. I know that Eegag has a UB madness deck that seems to work pretty well. That would tie your previous interest in madness with your preference for aggressive strategies.
Haloscope, this deck looks downright vicious. It's truly the Frankenstein of the metagame right now. You have 7 of the top 9 commons in post-rotation, pre-TS format. If there was ever a deck to metagame against, this would be it.
It seems that once you perfect the balances, this deck will be killer.
I would agree with Eegag, however, that Thrill of the Hunt seems unnecessary. I think your creatures are monstrous enough. More kill might be needed. You could also consider even more recursion, or a sac outlet like Gutless Ghoul, Dimir House Guard, or Thoughtpicker Witch.
I just played a game against a friend of mine. It was ridiculous. He had what appeared to be an Orzhov deck...
But his deck was built around Grim Harvest and the white Martyr. I was slapping him around with a big Ledgewalker when he starts to gain 15 life a turn. Once he got to 60 life he dropped a pillory on my Guardian and then followed up with a Kami of the Ancient Law.
He spent a ton of mana bringing the KotALaw back each turn to sac during my turn. It was disgusting.
Haloscope, I am guessing you mean Kami of False Hope. If so, I have seen this deck in action (it is nickpzo's creation, you can read about it in his article on metagaming). I love the idea, as I pretty much love any deck that can crush those thoughtless aggro decks, like G/R Beats.
Speaking of metagaming ... the same deck has now won two Standard PDC events in a row, and guess what it is? GWB "Good Stuff," or an aggro deck that runs Shambling Shell, Silhana Ledgewalker, and Guardian of the Guildpact. Huh. Who would have guessed that? Here is the list that won last night:
Even though this somewhat predictable hybrid of Orzhov and Harvester won, the Top 4 also included Rakdos Aggro-Control and Mono-Green Stompy.
As for my U/B Madness deck, it is still basically the same as the first list I posted. The deck is running well, and it's very consistent. At this moment I am testing 2x Fathom Seer instead of 2x Repeal, but I am not sure how that will work out.
Haloscope, I am guessing you mean Kami of False Hope. If so, I have seen this deck in action (it is nickpzo's creation, you can read about it in his article on metagaming).
Um... Yup. That's exactly what I meant. That deck is a serious pain.
You know, I think I coulda taken his deck if it wasn't for that stupid Kami. I was pulling all of the basics out of the deck by casting and chump blocking with the Civic Wayfinder. With enough mana you can cast the Shambling Shell, sac, harvest, and repeat two or three times in a turn.
Speaking of metagaming ... the same deck has now won two Standard PDC events in a row, and guess what it is? GWB "Good Stuff," or an aggro deck that runs Shambling Shell, Silhana Ledgewalker, and Guardian of the Guildpact. Huh. Who would have guessed that?
You know, STElder is such a huge card. Cheap chump blocker and mana fixer. Terramorphic Expanse is a great card, as is Prismatic Lens, but its just not the same. I wonder what the chances are they'll reprint him soon?
Halo, it may be a good idea to pack some Cremate or Shred Memory in your SB for those decks with recursive threats. Though False Hope rotates out, recursion is still more than prevalent with dredge and Grim Harvest.
Allow me now to present two incarnations of a Boros aggro deck I've been working on in Standard. Version 1 was my first effort, then I decided to make Version 2 from scratch without referencing the first one. V2 is metagamed against some of the threats present in a Golgari Harvester build, and has been working better for me. Still, I think it needs some work.
1. Veteran Armorer adds little to this deck. The extra toughness doesn't matter as much when I'm shooting for first strike kills anyways. He does almost always serve as a removal magnet, and for that reason alone maybe he's worthwhile. On the other hand, I believe Benalish Cavalry is more aggressive and Ronom Unicorn is far more useful, and so I'm considering one of those two (for the time being) in that slot.
2. Shock is a tough call. I definitely need to be able to hit the opponent's dome in those late-game moments when I'm so close to victory. I also like having those extra "mini-Skreds" for when some creature-based hijinks are about to ensue on the other side of the board. But sometimes I feel like I just need more power. I may cut these back to two and add two Cackling Flames or something. I'm going to need to re-assess burn in the new format, because we're losing my #1 fave, Yamabushi's Flame.
3. Fortify is amazing. So amazing, in fact, that I may even consider adding some Rally the Righteous (though I hate how that spell affects the enemy's stuff, too) to take better advantage of my first strikers. But the modality of Fortify makes it insanely useful. I also like having that one copy of Steeling Stance for its forecast ability.
4. I wanted to squeeze in Skyknight Legionnaire. What self-respecting Boros deck doesn't run that bad boy?
5. I haven't playtested much against Orzhov. I think that deck is still going to cause me major problems, even with my Pegasus Charger dominating the skies. The life-gain they have is just too much. I'll definitely need to have an anti-Orzhov sideboard.
6. The Boros Recruit is absolutely, absolutely amazing. I've been on his side for a long time and every time I revist the card I am reminded why. First strike on a one-drop is just awesome.
Ideas? Comments? Observations? Help me tailor this deck against Orzhov and some of the other threats that will bat me around. (Thank goodness Shimmering Glasskite is gone!)
EDIT: It looks as though my love for Fortify is misguided in this deck. However, I've got plans for another deck that uses it to the extreme. (I swung for 17 in one turn with said deck.) I guess that makes room for the Skyknight! Also, I scaled back to 20 lands because I kept seeing them over and over when they're useless. Oh, Boros...
I went a few rounds with Polyjak using my Orzhov/Harvester build. For the time being, I've shelved my Rock in favor of tuning this monster. In fact, because of 'Jack, I've named it Monster Mash. I figure, I've mashed together two monstrous decks - and its close to Halloween.
We played several games. Once I got a Ledgewalker or GotG online with counters, it went pretty quickly.
I have been thinking about the two biggest threats in the game and how to deal with them....I ended up making an abomination myself, with lots of answers to Guardian and Ledgewalker.
This deck carries a lot of gold or hybrid mana spells or creatures to fight guardian.
It is very controlish and can stall out with Martyr of Sands and Grim Harvest, or with Icatian Crier.
Stinkweed should be able to handle Ledgewalker, and Azorious First-Wing should be able to take him in the early game. I also plan on running 4 Shred Memory in the sideboard against Dredge and other Grim Harvests.
I have enough life gain to make it very hard for any early rush or for a deck to try and concentrate by only attacking with one creature.
The Icatian Crier adds a weenie horde element in the late game allowing me to attack aggressively while i let my life gain do the work.
Minister of Impediments is an allstar, and another way of dealing with big creatures (other than ledgewalker) and Guardian. He also allows me to swing as I wish.
I may be thinking about adding Gutless Ghoul as well...I am not sure thoough.
I know a lot of people will be saying to cut Sun's Bounty, but with as slow as this deck can be, I think its necessary.
Ruinedlaw, I think you are definitely on the right track here. I'm finishing up an article on the "nasty nine" and what I'm learning is that, until the metagame diversifies more, every successful deck is going to need to run at least one of the three dominant colors: white, black, and green. Black is by far the most important of those, as it's the only color currently able to deal with graveyard threats.
That having been said, I have a few cards I'd like to submit for your consideration. First and foremost, Think Twice seems like a nice choice. Then again, if graveyard-hosing becomes the way of things, Compulsive Research may be a better choice. Either way, though, I think card draw is one of the best abilities you gain from adding blue.
Perhaps not maindeck, but Cremate or Shred Memory are going to be very important. I know you mentioned them, but I just wanted to reiterate.
Gutless Ghoul may indeed be better than Martyr of Sands in here. If you're set on the Martyr route, consider Overrule as a counterspell and lifegain alternative to one of your non-white spells? Also, the Martyr and the Crier are somewhat at odds with each other. There's not a ton of synergy between their strategies... but maybe there's just enough?
You may also find Drift of Phantasms useful as it tutors for many of your spells - Minister, Stinky, Crier, Plumes, Pillory, and (if you add him) Gutless Ghoul. That may actually allow you to run fewer copies of some of those spells, opening new slots for some other stuff.
Also, I think it would be wise to consider Blind Hunter since you have access to WB. He is one of the most useful lifegain spells out there! I don't want to turn your deck into an Orzhov build with a blue splash, but so many of the top cards right now are from the Orzhov, it's worth considering them before dismissing them. (Castigate is another one that solves many of the recursive problems in Standard right now.)
All in all, though, I think your deck looks promising and actually exciting. You're using a few cards I've wanted to see work for a while (Icatian Crier among those). I would love to see testing results for this deck!
I'm hoping to have my 2nd article done very soon, and I'll post a link as soon as I do. I think all of us will certainly have our opinions about what I've written and revealed, and what I've overlooked as well. My goal is to give us a good and an explicit idea of what we need to beat in the new Standard in order to be competitive.
No offense, but I don't think Boros is the way to go. I think it runs out of power and doesn't have the ability to address the real threats inherent in Orzhov or Harvester. Dredge is the number one biggest problem. As long as they have dredge, they can use it to get a creature, another creature, a better creature, or Grim Harvest. If you fiddle with their draw - put a spell from their hand on top of the library, they can just dredge it out of the way.
As you suggest in The Nasty Nine, we need to run black for 'yard hate. Its just the only way at the common level to deal with recursion.
For this reason, more than anything else, I don't think Boros is the way to go now.
a few suggestions. It almost feels like you are almost torn between your strategies. I would probably suggest taking either the air route plus pump to beat your opponent faster (too bad latern kami is gone) Let me just say Pentarch Ward is fantastic.
There are a few different ways you could go with boros.
I would suggest maybe looking at the rebels plus icatian crier to provide a sure fire numbers advantage as well as card advantage.
Or look at mainly attacking by sky. (plus this way you can constantly make the awk sound). the legionaire needs to find a place in the deck.
maybe the only thing your deck needs is to drop the armorer for a crier. That would help create a weenie horde. I also like the goblin...he is nice
Thanks guys. Unfortunately, after writing that article, I realize that RW alone just isn't enough to deal with the threats that be. I'm going back to the drawing board, AGAIN, with increased knowledge of the metagame.
Meanwhile, let's look at Ruinedlaw's deck! I think there's a lot there!
Re: Ridiculous life gain decks. Has anyone considered using Children of Korlis? One of them is essentiall a Kami of False Hope. Two is a positive life swing equal to the damage your opponent is dealing each turn. Combined with Martyr of Sands, this could get ridiculous.
That link is in case you haven't yet read my amazing new article about the metagame.
Ruinedlaw, Haloscope, and I spent a little time brainstorming new deck ideas, and we thought maybe a GW weenie swarm might be able to get the job done. So I'm going to post a projected decklist.
Jak, I think you may have to change your list of the best cards in pauper. clearly Martyr of Sands will end up having the most effect on standard, much more so than ledgewalker or guardian.
From the testing we have done today, it is clear theat martyr is something that will need to be dealt with.
Well, I am going to try to return to SPDC play this week (hopefully nothing interferes with my plans to do so). After sifting through some tournament reports, I decided not to play one of the best decks (and I never understand why I don't place well in PDC events ...). Instead, I will likely go with my take on G Aggro: Snow Green.
10x Forest
8x Swamp
4x Terramorphic Expanse
1x Mountain
1x Plains
3x Bramble Elemental
4x Silhana Starfletcher
2x Civic Wayfinder
4x Thallid Shell-Dweller
3x Stinkweed Imp
4x Shambling Shell
3x Deathspore Thallid
3x Detainment Spell
2x Necromancer's Magemark
3x Strangling Soot
3x Grim Harvest
2x Disembowel
Cut back on the Civic Wayfinders and Disembowel. The Wood elves got cut again, too. +3 Stinkweed Imps.
-H
PoP Website
Magic Workstation
H/W list
OLD H/W list
GB Pauper T2 Rock Harvest v9b1
BR Pauper T2 Toolbox v2d5
Watcher of SPDC 1.07
The deck is looking very nice, stinkweed imp is a definate allstar against ledgewalker....combined with the fact that you will yourself be dredging and will likely see him faster makes the deck run much smoother.
As for sideboard, I still think you should run 4 shred memory in the sideboard, as that will help against that matchup and should be tech.
http://magic.jwc4.com/blog/index.html
Thanks for the suggestion. I think I can now start piecing together the SB.
10x Forest
8x Swamp
4x Terramorphic Expanse
1x Mountain
1x Plains
//Critters
3x Bramble Elemental
4x Silhana Starfletcher
2x Civic Wayfinder
4x Thallid Shell-Dweller
3x Stinkweed Imp
4x Shambling Shell
3x Deathspore Thallid
3x Detainment Spell
2x Necromancer's Magemark
3x Strangling Soot
3x Grim Harvest
2x Disembowel
4x Shred Memory
4x Silhana Ledgewalker
4x Guardian of the Guildpact
3x Molder
Sideboard choices. Shred Memory for the games against Harvester. Ledgewalker to pull off the Harvester combo if need be. 4x of each.
But, what next? Guardian of the Guildpact? This is one of the few decks that could run Guardian AND Shambling Shell. That would give nearly everyone fits. This idea sounds so appealing to me that I think I gotta do it. 4x.
Anti-enchantment? Aven Cloudchaser, Absolver Thrull, Ronom Unicorn?
Anti-artifact? Ancient Grudge, Icefall, Plunder, Shatter, Smash, Tin Street Hooligan?
Both? Molder, Naturalize, Sundering Vitae? I think Molder is the the way to go. Instant, hits artifacts or enchantments, and gets me life. 3x and I'm done?
Suggestions?
Side note: The way that I typically approach a deck is to think of how I want it to play, how I want it to win. At that point I usually have a few core cards in mind. Then, I build a rough draft of the deck, play a few rounds, look for holes in the deck. This is where I go to http://magiccards.info/search/ to do a search for basically any card within the format which does what I need. That explains the pile of choices above.
- H
PoP Website
Magic Workstation
H/W list
OLD H/W list
GB Pauper T2 Rock Harvest v9b1
BR Pauper T2 Toolbox v2d5
Watcher of SPDC 1.07
The idea of having Guardian in your sideboard flat out scares me. It is a really cool idea and a definate shock (not the burn spell) to whoever you are playing (of course other than us as we all know what you are doing).
http://magic.jwc4.com/blog/index.html
And, once again, I find myself at a crossroads.
The idea of a GotG + Shambling Shell and Silhana Ledgewalker with Grim Harvest backup is downright frightening to me. But, that's a tri-color aggro deck, not The Rock.
Thus, I present Mutant Bastard.
9x Forest
8x Swamp
4x Terramorphic Expanse
3x Plains
4x Silhana Ledgewalker
4x Stinkweed Imp
4x Shambling Shell
4x Blind Hunter
4x Guardian of the Guildpact
4x Prismatic Lens
4x Pillory of the Sleepless
4x Thrill of the Hunt
1x Disembowel
3x Grim Harvest
I think Thrill of the Hunt will be a huge addition to this deck. Don't get me wrong, I like Wildsize. If I dredge it, great. If I draw it, even better. This deck was born after a discussion with Eegag. Orzhov and Harvester are the best decks, right? Why not play both?
That is if it works. :/ I'll do some testing tonight and let you know.
- H
PoP Website
Magic Workstation
H/W list
OLD H/W list
GB Pauper T2 Rock Harvest v9b1
BR Pauper T2 Toolbox v2d5
Watcher of SPDC 1.07
It looks really good, and I don't think mana-fixing will be a problem. Good call with Prismatic Lens, I think it fits well in this deck. The only question marks I have with the deck are the Stinkweed Imps, Thrill of the Hunts, and the single Disembowel.
I actually feel Stinkweed Imp is the right call in this metagame. However, if the deck ever needs to go a more aggressive route, I'd suggest Trespasser il-Vec or Wormwood Dryad. I'm just not sure if Thrill of the Hunt packs enough punch. However, it can often act as a cheap counterpsell against Last Gasp or Shock. As for the Disembowel ... maybe a Last Gasp or Assassinate instead?
Prison Yard (Pauper Future Extended)
I been on a madness addiction for a long time now. I usually like offensive style decks. Also I am not big into decks that allow the person on the other side of the table benefit from my deck (such as enhancing draw power or mana).
I do enjoy weenie horde style type decks. I am still kinda looking around.
Haloscope, this deck looks downright vicious. It's truly the Frankenstein of the metagame right now. You have 7 of the top 9 commons in post-rotation, pre-TS format. If there was ever a deck to metagame against, this would be it.
It seems that once you perfect the balances, this deck will be killer.
I would agree with Eegag, however, that Thrill of the Hunt seems unnecessary. I think your creatures are monstrous enough. More kill might be needed. You could also consider even more recursion, or a sac outlet like Gutless Ghoul, Dimir House Guard, or Thoughtpicker Witch.
EDIT: Check out nickpzo's article on metagaming at paupermagic.com.
But his deck was built around Grim Harvest and the white Martyr. I was slapping him around with a big Ledgewalker when he starts to gain 15 life a turn. Once he got to 60 life he dropped a pillory on my Guardian and then followed up with a Kami of the Ancient Law.
He spent a ton of mana bringing the KotALaw back each turn to sac during my turn. It was disgusting.
-H
Edit: Thank god it won't be legal for long.
PoP Website
Magic Workstation
H/W list
OLD H/W list
GB Pauper T2 Rock Harvest v9b1
BR Pauper T2 Toolbox v2d5
Watcher of SPDC 1.07
Speaking of metagaming ... the same deck has now won two Standard PDC events in a row, and guess what it is? GWB "Good Stuff," or an aggro deck that runs Shambling Shell, Silhana Ledgewalker, and Guardian of the Guildpact. Huh. Who would have guessed that? Here is the list that won last night:
13 Forest
1 Selesnya Sanctuary
3 Swamp
2 Orzhov Basilica
3 Plains
// Creatures
4 Aquastrand Spider
4 Humble Budoka
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
4 Shambling Shell
3 Guardian of the Guildpact
3 Shrieking Grotesque
4 Faith's Fetters
4 Pillory of the Sleepless
2 Grim Harvest
2 Orzhov Signet
4 Last Gasp
4 Kami of the Ancient Law
2 Cremate
4 Shred Memory
1 Grim Harvest
Even though this somewhat predictable hybrid of Orzhov and Harvester won, the Top 4 also included Rakdos Aggro-Control and Mono-Green Stompy.
As for my U/B Madness deck, it is still basically the same as the first list I posted. The deck is running well, and it's very consistent. At this moment I am testing 2x Fathom Seer instead of 2x Repeal, but I am not sure how that will work out.
Prison Yard (Pauper Future Extended)
11 Swamp
8 Mountain
4 Rakdos Carnarium
//19 creatures//
4 Frostling
3 Gobhobbler Rats
2 Gutless Ghoul
4 Ronin Houndmaster
2 Viashino Fangtail
2 Dimir House Guard
2 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
4 Distress
2 Grim Harvest
4 Rend Flesh
4 Yamabushi's Flame
4 Wrecking Ball
2 Icefall
3 Last Gasp
1 Seal of Fire
3 Skullsnatcher
2 Stinkweed Imp
4 Stone Rain
What do we lose? The ninjas. Frostling. Rend Flesh. Yamabushi's Flame. Distress. Houndmaster.
What we could add: some madness stuff. Other discard spells. Other burn and removal. Another creature with haste.
I'm really feelin' the hit that Standard takes with Kamigawa's rotation out of Standard. Not good.
Um... Yup. That's exactly what I meant. That deck is a serious pain.
You know, I think I coulda taken his deck if it wasn't for that stupid Kami. I was pulling all of the basics out of the deck by casting and chump blocking with the Civic Wayfinder. With enough mana you can cast the Shambling Shell, sac, harvest, and repeat two or three times in a turn.
You know, STElder is such a huge card. Cheap chump blocker and mana fixer. Terramorphic Expanse is a great card, as is Prismatic Lens, but its just not the same. I wonder what the chances are they'll reprint him soon?
-H
PoP Website
Magic Workstation
H/W list
OLD H/W list
GB Pauper T2 Rock Harvest v9b1
BR Pauper T2 Toolbox v2d5
Watcher of SPDC 1.07
Allow me now to present two incarnations of a Boros aggro deck I've been working on in Standard. Version 1 was my first effort, then I decided to make Version 2 from scratch without referencing the first one. V2 is metagamed against some of the threats present in a Golgari Harvester build, and has been working better for me. Still, I think it needs some work.
10 Snow-Covered Plains
9 Snow-Covered Mountain
3 Terramorphic Expanse
//24 creatures//
4 Mogg War Marshal
4 Benalish Cavalry
4 Ronom Unicorn
4 Blazing Blade Askari
4 Skyknight Legionnaire
3 Guardian of the Guildpact
1 Keldon Halberdier
4 Shock
4 Rift Bolt
4 Pentarch Ward
3 Skred
9 Snow-Covered Plains
9 Snow-Covered Mountains
4 Terramorphic Expanse
//22 creatures//
4 Boros Recruit
4 Suntail Hawk
4 Mogg War Marshal
4 Veteran Armorer
4 Pegasus Charger
2 Guardian of the Guildpact
4 Shock
4 Skred
4 Pentarch Ward
3 Fortify
1 Steeling Stance
Some observations:
1. Veteran Armorer adds little to this deck. The extra toughness doesn't matter as much when I'm shooting for first strike kills anyways. He does almost always serve as a removal magnet, and for that reason alone maybe he's worthwhile. On the other hand, I believe Benalish Cavalry is more aggressive and Ronom Unicorn is far more useful, and so I'm considering one of those two (for the time being) in that slot.
2. Shock is a tough call. I definitely need to be able to hit the opponent's dome in those late-game moments when I'm so close to victory. I also like having those extra "mini-Skreds" for when some creature-based hijinks are about to ensue on the other side of the board. But sometimes I feel like I just need more power. I may cut these back to two and add two Cackling Flames or something. I'm going to need to re-assess burn in the new format, because we're losing my #1 fave, Yamabushi's Flame.
3. Fortify is amazing. So amazing, in fact, that I may even consider adding some Rally the Righteous (though I hate how that spell affects the enemy's stuff, too) to take better advantage of my first strikers. But the modality of Fortify makes it insanely useful. I also like having that one copy of Steeling Stance for its forecast ability.
4. I wanted to squeeze in Skyknight Legionnaire. What self-respecting Boros deck doesn't run that bad boy?
5. I haven't playtested much against Orzhov. I think that deck is still going to cause me major problems, even with my Pegasus Charger dominating the skies. The life-gain they have is just too much. I'll definitely need to have an anti-Orzhov sideboard.
6. The Boros Recruit is absolutely, absolutely amazing. I've been on his side for a long time and every time I revist the card I am reminded why. First strike on a one-drop is just awesome.
Ideas? Comments? Observations? Help me tailor this deck against Orzhov and some of the other threats that will bat me around. (Thank goodness Shimmering Glasskite is gone!)
EDIT: It looks as though my love for Fortify is misguided in this deck. However, I've got plans for another deck that uses it to the extreme. (I swung for 17 in one turn with said deck.) I guess that makes room for the Skyknight! Also, I scaled back to 20 lands because I kept seeing them over and over when they're useless. Oh, Boros...
We played several games. Once I got a Ledgewalker or GotG online with counters, it went pretty quickly.
The thing to do now is build a deck to beat it.
- H
PoP Website
Magic Workstation
H/W list
OLD H/W list
GB Pauper T2 Rock Harvest v9b1
BR Pauper T2 Toolbox v2d5
Watcher of SPDC 1.07
4 Minister of Impediments
4 Azorious First-Wing
4 Martyr of Sands
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Icatian Crier
4 Plumes of Peace
4 Pillory of the Sleeples
//Spells//
4 Sun's Bounty
3 Grim Harvest
3 Mana Leak
4 Terramorphic Expanse
5 Swamps
5 Islands
8 Plains
This deck carries a lot of gold or hybrid mana spells or creatures to fight guardian.
It is very controlish and can stall out with Martyr of Sands and Grim Harvest, or with Icatian Crier.
Stinkweed should be able to handle Ledgewalker, and Azorious First-Wing should be able to take him in the early game. I also plan on running 4 Shred Memory in the sideboard against Dredge and other Grim Harvests.
I have enough life gain to make it very hard for any early rush or for a deck to try and concentrate by only attacking with one creature.
The Icatian Crier adds a weenie horde element in the late game allowing me to attack aggressively while i let my life gain do the work.
Minister of Impediments is an allstar, and another way of dealing with big creatures (other than ledgewalker) and Guardian. He also allows me to swing as I wish.
I may be thinking about adding Gutless Ghoul as well...I am not sure thoough.
I know a lot of people will be saying to cut Sun's Bounty, but with as slow as this deck can be, I think its necessary.
http://magic.jwc4.com/blog/index.html
Ruinedlaw, I think you are definitely on the right track here. I'm finishing up an article on the "nasty nine" and what I'm learning is that, until the metagame diversifies more, every successful deck is going to need to run at least one of the three dominant colors: white, black, and green. Black is by far the most important of those, as it's the only color currently able to deal with graveyard threats.
That having been said, I have a few cards I'd like to submit for your consideration. First and foremost, Think Twice seems like a nice choice. Then again, if graveyard-hosing becomes the way of things, Compulsive Research may be a better choice. Either way, though, I think card draw is one of the best abilities you gain from adding blue.
Perhaps not maindeck, but Cremate or Shred Memory are going to be very important. I know you mentioned them, but I just wanted to reiterate.
Gutless Ghoul may indeed be better than Martyr of Sands in here. If you're set on the Martyr route, consider Overrule as a counterspell and lifegain alternative to one of your non-white spells? Also, the Martyr and the Crier are somewhat at odds with each other. There's not a ton of synergy between their strategies... but maybe there's just enough?
You may also find Drift of Phantasms useful as it tutors for many of your spells - Minister, Stinky, Crier, Plumes, Pillory, and (if you add him) Gutless Ghoul. That may actually allow you to run fewer copies of some of those spells, opening new slots for some other stuff.
Also, I think it would be wise to consider Blind Hunter since you have access to WB. He is one of the most useful lifegain spells out there! I don't want to turn your deck into an Orzhov build with a blue splash, but so many of the top cards right now are from the Orzhov, it's worth considering them before dismissing them. (Castigate is another one that solves many of the recursive problems in Standard right now.)
All in all, though, I think your deck looks promising and actually exciting. You're using a few cards I've wanted to see work for a while (Icatian Crier among those). I would love to see testing results for this deck!
I'm hoping to have my 2nd article done very soon, and I'll post a link as soon as I do. I think all of us will certainly have our opinions about what I've written and revealed, and what I've overlooked as well. My goal is to give us a good and an explicit idea of what we need to beat in the new Standard in order to be competitive.
"Standard's Nasty Nine" by Polyjak
No offense, but I don't think Boros is the way to go. I think it runs out of power and doesn't have the ability to address the real threats inherent in Orzhov or Harvester. Dredge is the number one biggest problem. As long as they have dredge, they can use it to get a creature, another creature, a better creature, or Grim Harvest. If you fiddle with their draw - put a spell from their hand on top of the library, they can just dredge it out of the way.
As you suggest in The Nasty Nine, we need to run black for 'yard hate. Its just the only way at the common level to deal with recursion.
For this reason, more than anything else, I don't think Boros is the way to go now.
-H
PoP Website
Magic Workstation
H/W list
OLD H/W list
GB Pauper T2 Rock Harvest v9b1
BR Pauper T2 Toolbox v2d5
Watcher of SPDC 1.07
a few suggestions. It almost feels like you are almost torn between your strategies. I would probably suggest taking either the air route plus pump to beat your opponent faster (too bad latern kami is gone) Let me just say Pentarch Ward is fantastic.
There are a few different ways you could go with boros.
I would suggest maybe looking at the rebels plus icatian crier to provide a sure fire numbers advantage as well as card advantage.
Or look at mainly attacking by sky. (plus this way you can constantly make the awk sound). the legionaire needs to find a place in the deck.
maybe the only thing your deck needs is to drop the armorer for a crier. That would help create a weenie horde. I also like the goblin...he is nice
http://magic.jwc4.com/blog/index.html
Meanwhile, let's look at Ruinedlaw's deck! I think there's a lot there!
- H
PoP Website
Magic Workstation
H/W list
OLD H/W list
GB Pauper T2 Rock Harvest v9b1
BR Pauper T2 Toolbox v2d5
Watcher of SPDC 1.07
That link is in case you haven't yet read my amazing new article about the metagame.
Ruinedlaw, Haloscope, and I spent a little time brainstorming new deck ideas, and we thought maybe a GW weenie swarm might be able to get the job done. So I'm going to post a projected decklist.
11 Snow-Covered Forest
7 Snow-Covered Plains
4 Terramorphic Expanse
//20 creatures//
4 Simic Initiate
4 Aquastrand Spider
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
2 Boreal Centaur
4 Pegasus Charger
2 Guardian of the Guildpact
4 Giant Growth
4 Fists of Ironwood
4 Wildsize
3 Scatter the Seeds
3 Fortify
Clearly, this needs testing and tuning, but the ideas are there.
Kjeldoran War Cry
Strength in Numbers
Seeds of Strength
Veteran Armorer
Ronom Unicorn
Conclave Equenaut
Pentarch Ward
Steeling Stance
Golgari Brownscale
Greater Mossdog
EDIT: Halo seems to have trumped it with a mono-white deck using both Fortify and Kjeldoran War Cry and a bunch of weenies including Martyr of Sands, Children of Korlis, Veteran Armorer, and Ivory Giant.
From the testing we have done today, it is clear theat martyr is something that will need to be dealt with.
http://magic.jwc4.com/blog/index.html
-H
PoP Website
Magic Workstation
H/W list
OLD H/W list
GB Pauper T2 Rock Harvest v9b1
BR Pauper T2 Toolbox v2d5
Watcher of SPDC 1.07
5 Snow-Covered Mountain
17 Snow-Covered Forest
// Creatures
4 Civic Wayfinder
4 Trained Armodon
3 Silhana Ledgewalker
3 Shinen of Life's Roar
4 Gnarled Mass
4 Boreal Druid
4 Aquastrand Spider
4 Giant Growth
4 Skred
4 Wildsize
This is just a preliminary list. Other cards I considered include Boreal Centaur, Greater Mossdog, and Sound the Call.
Do you think this deck can compete in the current no-man's land that is Standard, or will it just succumb to the barbed wire of Orzhov and Good Stuff?
Prison Yard (Pauper Future Extended)