I've been pondering White Weenie this weekend. I don't think all-out Rebels is the way to go, but I do think Amrou Scout can offer some excellent card advantage. Many of the other creature choices seem self-explanatory. Throw in an array of spells and you have yourself a White Weenie deck ... I guess.
I've been following your clan loosely for a while. Eegag has wanted me to play Pauper forever, and I finally decided to start. So, if you guys are still recruiting, I'd like to be a member.
Here's a decklist that I've been working on. Eegag helped me refine it, although I'm sure it could still see some changes. I think it has some definite potential in standard Pauper.
Some other considerations: Vigean Hydropon, [card]Shielding Plax
[/card]
This deck has a simliar idea to Polyjak's previously posted "The New Simic," but with a different approach.
The basic idea is to suspend a few fatties in the first two turns, then counter/bounce things until they come into play. Hopefully, you'll have a Herd Gnarr waiting for the suspend guys, and the Gnarr becomes a fatty himself. Slap a few Fists onto the fatties to give them trample, all the while making the Gnarr even larger.
Just an idea, why not drop Durkwood Baloth for Bramble elemental. The Durkwood, while he is nice, I am not sure you want to run him for the suspend and wait 5 turns or hardcast him...for a vanilla 5/5, I am not sure its worth it.
If you run the Bramble elemental it has synergy with the fists of Ironwood that you are running already and especially if you are considering running Shielding Plax.
Another idea.
Civic Wayfinder instead of Search for Tomorrow?
I am not sure if these ideas are pulling you too far from the suspend idea, if so ignore me.
I would recommend looking at Ophidian Eye...instead of Shielding Plax if you are looking for another enchantment....it seems like it would work well with all the other cantrips in your deck to give you a lot of card advantage.
Other than that, I really like the idea of your deck, its cool.
Welcome to the clan! I'm glad there's a Simic lover in our midst. The world of green/blue is an elusive one to me. However, I think that Time Spiral brings a lot of potential power to the color combo.
Eegag told me a little bit about your deck over AIM. I really like the idea of hanging big fatties in the sky, then filling the board with grafters, then bouncing and countering the heck out of the enemy until the fat comes down, and gets grafted, and pounds bigtime. That strategy seems like it may need a lot of pieces to be in place at the same time, but it sounds fun to try, at least.
I like the interaction of Sage of Epityr and Coiling Oracle a whole lot. It's obvious that you'll want to run lots of the suspend fatties. I'm not sure about Herd Gnarr, though. In a color that is known for cheaply costed fat, he seems too conditional for major play. I'd rather see something more stable in the 4-drop slot. Assault Zeppelid or Simic Ragworm or even Greater Mossdog as a recursive threat. While the deck wants to win with suspended fat, a backup plan is never a bad idea.
Ruinedlaw has recommended Civic Wayfinder as an alternative to Search for Tomorrow, and I'd second that idea. In my experience, Simic decks are able to build up a ton of mana, but often don't have anything to do with it. Having a mana-fetcher without a body seems unnecessary.
He also suggested a bunch of stuff I'm not so sure about. Bramble Elemental can be fun, but with cards like Skred in the format, even his 4 toughness can be cut down to size quickly in response to an aura being cast. I like Fists of Ironwood a lot, but without some beefier mid-range creatures in the deck, you may find you're holding it without a useful target.
Also, though Ophidian Eye may be a fun card, I would recommend Think Twice over the aura. Again, you want to suspend some fat and then get into a controlling board position. You may not have enough good targets for the Eye, but Think Twice can be used at opponent's EOT. I might also recommend one copy of Train of Thought as a hand refill. No deck is better at exploiting the replicate on this card than green/blue.
I think a greater number of counterspells would benefit you. I appreciate where you're coming from with Wildsize, and it may in fact be preferrable to Fists of Ironwood, but I don't think both are necessary.
There's defintely going to be some fine-tuning in the numbers for this deck, but I think it will be a very fun deck to test and try to pull off. If you have AIM and/or MWS, I'd be happy to test with you.
For reference, everyone, here's my "The New Simic" decklist. I've made a few changes since posting this, but I'll wait to do a formal write-up on it until after some testing.
Okay, I've been brainstorming for a while what a T2 Pauper Rock deck would look like.
A classic Rock deck should be based upon disruption, creature control, card advantage, toolbox, and inevitability. It is typically a B/G or B/G/c deck, but the specific colors may be sacrificed for the deck's effectiveness. Given the recent addition of Terramorphic Expanse, I feel that it would be best to branch out to a third color for more flexibility.
In the current format, I see at least two feasible directions to take this deck. 1) Eidolon + multicolor creatures or 2) Saproling token production. Both options have a lot of draw for me.
With the Eidolons, you could play with Shambling Shells and Blind Hunters to recycle the Eidolons. I prefer the black as it gains you life and does damage. This card would nicely compliment the Shell + Ledgewalker combo.
With the saproling token production, you can get a LOT of use out of the Deathspore Thallid. A good way to go might be Bramble Elemental + Detainment Spell. With 2WW and one Elemental, you get 2 Saproling tokens. With two Elementals, you get 4 Saproling tokens.
Frankly, I'm torn as to which way I want to take this deck. If I go Eidolons, then I should add W for the Blind Hunters. If I go Saprolings, then I should consider adding more Thallids.
I'm tempted to go more Thallids because that will allow me to do a lot of things. Creature control with Deathspore Thallid, sac'ing creatures to Gutless Ghoul, card control with Thoughtpicker Witch, regeneration with Dimir House Guard.
Now, if you're playing Madness and discard outlets, why not take it a step further? If you are out of cards, why not make it an advantage? I'm talking about Hellbent. Demon's Jester and Slaughterhouse Bouncer.
For graveyard recursion, I like Grim Harvest and Pit Keeper best. A little trick with Grim Harvest is how it works with token creatures. For a brief moment, token creatures actually go to the graveyard. That means if you're playing token creatures, such as Saprolings, you can pull out a real creature from the 'yard every time a Sap dies.
With the Eidolons, you could play with Shambling Shells and Blind Hunters to recycle the Eidolons. I prefer the black as it gains you life and does damage. This card would nicely compliment the Shell + Ledgewalker combo.
This sounds pretty potent. I wonder if the PDC gurus have tried the Eidolon in Harvester builds. The black one does seem like a good call, just to hedge your life total against encroaching burn.
Quote from Haloscope »
With the saproling token production, you can get a LOT of use out of the Deathspore Thallid. A good way to go might be Bramble Elemental + Detainment Spell. With 2WW and one Elemental, you get 2 Saproling tokens. With two Elementals, you get 4 Saproling tokens.
I just want to caution you about the Bramble Elemental, in a format where Skred roams free. No creature is safe from a one-shot kill. Especially in conjunction with the unwieldly and slow usage fee of 2WW. It is one of the best ways to generate a large number of saps, though. But I predict the format will be chock full of removal and Bramble is a prime target, so basing anything around him could be iffy. Shielding Plax?
Quote from Haloscope »
Frankly, I'm torn as to which way I want to take this deck. If I go Eidolons, then I should add W for the Blind Hunters. If I go Saprolings, then I should consider adding more Thallids.
I'm tempted to go more Thallids because that will allow me to do a lot of things. Creature control with Deathspore Thallid, sac'ing creatures to Gutless Ghoul, card control with Thoughtpicker Witch, regeneration with Dimir House Guard.
This might be the more fun way to go, especially since what you'd be doing otherwise is re-vamping the existing "archetype" of Harvester, which exploits the Shambling Shell / Ledgewalker / Grim Harvest interplay. Adding the Eidolon into that mix could make things insane.
Now, if you're playing Madness and discard outlets, why not take it a step further? If you are out of cards, why not make it an advantage? I'm talking about Hellbent. Demon's Jester and Slaughterhouse Bouncer.
Are you thinking maybe a BRG deck here? I'm curious how well Rakdos could fare with the new Time Spiral tools. Maybe someday when I'm done experimenting will all these other decks I'll turn my eyes to the demon-worshippers.
Quote from Haloscope »
For graveyard recursion, I like Grim Harvest and Pit Keeper best. A little trick with Grim Harvest is how it works with token creatures. For a brief moment, token creatures actually go to the graveyard. That means if you're playing token creatures, such as Saprolings, you can pull out a real creature from the 'yard every time a Sap dies.
Excellent point. It all hinges on finding a reliable, steady supply of Saprolings, doesn't it?
It sounds like you have two or three distinct deck ideas here, and it might be fun to construct all three of them and test them separately. Once you get a feel for how cards play with each other and against other decks in the new format, you'll have more insight on what works or not. I'm not sure the Deathspore Thallid has enough ammo at present to make him a reliable element in a deck. (Planar Chaos may change that, especially if we revisit Ravnica mechanics.) But by all means, give it a shot. There's nothing at stake in MWS, everything's free and digital.
If I were you, I might start from some variant of Harvester, even if it's just 4 Ledgewalker, 4 Shambling Shell, 3 Grim Harvest, and some other stuff, and work outward from there.
Well, you can't be afraid of losing a creature because your opponent might be running a good spell. Let them use their Skred or whatever else they've got.
Yeah, it did seem like a few different deck ideas. I may just need to do several diff decks and see what works.
Shloukas, I think the deck needs a bit more testing. The one thing I'd like to see in there is Aquastrand Spider. He's a bear early game that can serve to increase the stats of your fatties later. Bramble Elemental and Vigean Hydropon seem a bit too slow for me. Shielding Plax may be a good sideboard card against a removal-filled deck. Regarding Plax, I like that you can play it on a fattie the turn they come into play, as your mana will be free.
Polyjak, the New Simic looks rather like a jumble of neat cards instead of a focused list. That's not to say that it won't work, because it may - there are a lot of good cards in there. I think you have the best U/G can offer, but I don't know if the numbers are right.
Haloscope, I really liked your post - it got me thinking. The two ideas you presented with the most potential are adding Eidolons to the Shambling Shell / Silhana Ledgewalker engine and Thallid Rock. I think either direction has potential, but I would avoid shenanigans with Detainment Spell. Bramble Elemental, on the other hand, combined with auras like Shielding Plax or Fists of Ironwood, might be a good addition. With Deathspore Thallid, both Fists and Scatter the Seeds act as creature generators as well as removal if needed. Even Sprout can chump block then Darkblast.
I'll post the version I tested tonight against Redleg. We went 1-1. The first game I only stabilized the board at 1 life while he was at 19 or 20. However, by that time I had two Bramble Elementals, one Detainment Spell, a Deathspore Thallid, and some miscellaneous. Frankly, I never thought I'd say this, but the Ledgewalker was almost a waste of time in the deck. This deck is a LONG way from ready for real competition, but it has some moments.
The dying Saproling/Grim Harvest combo worked really well. Killing a bunch of creatures using Saps and the Deathspore Thallid at the end of turn, bringing a creature back, then paying to recover the Harvest was just too much fun. However, I found that I would occasionally really want some Saps out on the board before I dropped the Deathspore. I think this is what makes Scatter the Seeds a good idea.
Oh, yeah, almost forgot, game 2 I got clubbed like a baby seal by flying creatures. That hurt.
The bramble elemental is a must, I agree with you a 100%.
I was wondering if maybe there were a few changed you might want to make.
I wonder how Strangling Soot is running, I know that it has flashback, but I do not know if there is a better answer? if you get the thallid going flashback may not need to be a big deal. I would look at running Last Gasp instead, and maybe even cutting Disembowel For Last Gasp instead.
I think someone suggested it earlier (maybe not to your deck but anyways) Aquastrand Spider would be a good addition to fight flyers. Stinkweed Imp would work just as well.
You may also want to look at adding more enchantments to the deck, as you can use the saprolings in a number of different ways. Specifically Fists of the Ironwood.
Also, you may want to think about shred memory for your sideboard, or even mainboard, you can use it to tutor for your death thallid or if you add aquastrand spider. Also it allows you to deal with other people running the shambling shell ledgewalker combo, as you can remove their dredge creatures from the game.
Jak,
You yourself said that WB and GB are the best two deck in right now, if that is the case why are you worried about Skred...last i checked neither of those decks had red mana. Secondly your argument that there is lots of creature removal just doesnt hold, ok, so should we all play creatureless decks. Bramble elemental is amazing for his deck, if he looses it, its not like he cant win the game. Your argument is like saying that someone should not run jitte in their deck because people run hate for it (in type II). If you have a card that your opponent must come up with an answer for or lose, you have to play it regardless of whether or not there is hate, and so far the only spell in pauper that is normally played that can kill Bramble elemental is skred, i think you may be overreacting a bit.
I like the Aquastrand Spider idea. I have a little graft in there... But I'm not sure what I think about it yet. It *should* work great with Shambling Shell... But it wasn't something I ever got to test in either of those games. I did get to add a counter to my Thallid twice - hoping to be able to regenerate him later. But that never panned out.
Strangling Soot was an All-Star in this deck. As was the Disembowel. I was running the Disembowl because I want a toughness-independent way to kill opposing creatures. With Slivers coming to the table soon and especially the proliferation of Auras, I like not having to care about an X/4 or X/5.
I still question the usefulness of my own Ledgewalker. I guess I could always dial it back to 2 or 1 and play a little 'yard hate/tutoring with Shred Memory. At the 2cc and below cost, I had Thallid Shell-Dweller for the wall-i-ness and early Sap production. The Thallid Germinator was more of an afterthought. I was also running 4x Greenseeker and 3x Gorgon Recluses. I figured I'd rather have 4/4's and tokens with the Bramble than 2/4's that killed nonblack creatures. Without the Gorgon, I was less inclined to use the Greenseeker for discard.
On Bramble Elemental. Damn near every time I played him, he got Skred-ed. However, with the Grim Harvest, I didn't particularly care. And, one of the best parts is - if I didn't have a GH I could just dredge until I did. Dredging also got me Strangling Soot. (Although, I didn't get to use the Flashback part in either game).
On Saprolings. I generally don't start producing a lot of them until I get one Bramble-Detainment Spell online. So, having a 2cc Thallid which kills opposing creatures isn't as useful at 2cc as you'd think. I'm thinking of cutting him back to 3x - since I don't need him until everything else is in place. Ideally, I'd drop him, graft a few counters on, sac a few Saps, and be on my way. Fists of Ironwood is undoubtedly *the* cheapest and fastest way to generate two Saps. I was also thinking of adding in Scatter the Seeds for early-ish instant speed Sap production. If I've got a Deathspore out, its a convoke-able Last Gasp...
On more Auras. I've always been a HUGE fan of Necromantic Thirst and the Magemarks. Without a reliable way to punch through an opponent, I don't see the percentage in playing the NThirst. However, the Magemarks seem a viable option. I'm liking the Necromancer's Magemark for this deck. Thoughts on Auras?
- Card Advantage: utilizing the dredge engine of Shambling Shell in combination with the recover and flashback.
You alluded to these basic ideas in your first post on "The Rock," but now I can really see them in your design. With that being established, I feel as though these serve as your "core" cards:
I know you are debating about Ledgewalker's effectiveness. However, I feel as though the more you test with it, the more you will recognize the effect it has on your ability to win. Maybe taking it out is the best move at this point, however: if you find yourself missing it, you'll know that it should probably keep a place in the deck.
Of the other cards you have, here are those which I think aid your basic strategy the most:
Unfortunately, we can't pack everything into this single deck. From your initial list, I would probably remove Detainment Spell for Fists of Ironwood. I would also probably cut a single Bramble Elemental in favor of another Civic Wayfidner, Sporeback Troll, or Thallid Germinator.
Our discussions here, combined with an increasing trend in Standard PDC events and discussions elsewhere, lead me to believe that the future of SPDC may be in three-color control. With Terramorphic Expanse, 3cc is becoming a lot more reliable. I have an idea of my own based around an early proposal by Haloscope for another version of 3cc, which I will post later today or tomorrow.
I hate to break it to you, guys, but auras have traditionally been pretty non-competitive because, so often, you're basically giving your opponent a 2-for-1. I know Eegag's deck is capable of an indiscriminate kill for B and after turn 4 my deck can inflict a lethal blow on a Bramble Elemental for R.
I don't want to discourage you, Haloscope, from attempting to create one heck of a token-based kill engine, but considering it essentially costs you 5GGWW before you reap a benefit that surpasses Scatter the Seeds, I might recommend an alternative strategy.
Unless, of course, you beat face with the Bramble Elemental. I guess I'm not accounting for that element of the combo.
I don't mean to imply that everyone should run creatureless decks. That would be silly. But I am trying to draw attention to the fact that creature-based, mana-intensive combos are likely to fail in an environment so full of efficient removal. Especially an environment so diverse that removal is sure to be quite prevalent.
Auras HAVE traditionally been a 2fer. However, WotC has made a conscious effort to make these less of a losing proposition. Auras have gotten cheaper and more powerful.
Moreover, you have to look at these things in terms of investments. A Fists of Ironwood, if it hits the board is essentially a 3 for 1. You get a creature with trample and two 1/1's. A well timed Ophidian Eye is at least a 1 for 1, and at best a whole lot more.
Yes, Skred is out there. So are any number of creature kill spells. However, when the payoff can be so great, its worth the gamble. Especially when you can control when you cast the spell.
The black magemark is also such a card. At worst, your creatures gets a +1/+1 and then returns from beyond the grave. A GREAT spell for a graft deck. Think about it. You give away ALL the counters and can still use their abilities!
It was cool to see Bramble Elemental in action in a game tonight. I brought the old guard Orzhov deck for playtesting. Haloscope had two Brambles and a Detainment Spell bouncing back and forth between them, and the Saproling hordes were enough to fell me. It's quite a sight to behold. Especially considering Last Gasp couldn't topple the Elemental, and Pillory of the Sleepless just fed into the swarm.
Also, a few notes on playing it. I've found that if I don't get what I need, I can just Dredge until I get a Grim Harvest and then pick and choose what I need out of the graveyard. This helps make it a toolbox type deck.
Now, I know Polyjak is down on Detainment Spell in favor of Fists of Ironwood, but I had another idea as to how Detainment Spell can really help in this deck. Suppose you have a Necromancer's Magemark out and another creature is in danger of dying. You switch the Detainment Spell to the endangered creature. Instant speed +1/+1 AND if it dies, it comes back into play. I think the possibilities available with these cards and their potential interaction is too good to pass up. One Bramble Elemental and one Detainment Spell is all I really need to get the deck online. Without anything else, the Bramble is a meaty creature. The Detainment Spell as a defensive spell is, admittedly, limited and situational at best. However, its worth playing for the potential interactions and payoffs.
This deck has good mid-to-late game stabilization and is weak early on. In the late game, I'm not really concerned with what my opponent is doing since I can just pick everyone out of the graveyard and start over. Its the early game that is really painful. Polyjak ripped my hand apart with nasty Orzhov tricks. After that the flyers and Pillory's did me in. The deck can be strengthened by either making it more defensive or more offensive.
On Graft. I like this a lot, but question its overall usefulness. The best graft trick I pulled off was to stack counters from the Shambling Shell on the Aquastrand Spider and then a little later pull a TON of counters off of my Thallids to make several 2/2 Saprolings. Giving things the ability to block flying was not nearly as useful as you'd think. The regeneration benefits of Sporeback Troll not that great. He's expensive for a 2/2 and expensive to use. Ultimately, I think I'd rather just let the creature die and then bring it back.
On flying creatures. The best options so far seem to be Stinky, Aquastrand Spider, Silhana Starfletcher, and the Frostweb Spider. Aquastrand by itself is kind of tiny to do anything on its own. This leaves Frostweb and Starfletcher. Of the two, Starfletcher seems like the way to go - it stops early flyers and helps with mana.
I don't have the manabase right yet. I'm not sure what the answer is yet, either. I could go all Forests/Swamps and then use the Boros Signet, Prismatic Lens, or the Boros Garrison. I want to try the Civic Wayfinders again. Between the Terramorphic Expanse and Civic Wayfinder should give me enough mana fixing and deck thinning. I hate getting stuck with lands in hand late in game.
Overhaul time. After very limited testing, I'd go:
-4 Fists of Ironwood
+3 Detainment Spell
I am happy to see your mass of ideas taking shape in a focused deck, Haloscope. You have done a great deal of match analysis to come to your card choices. My inherent bias against auras cannot stand in your way as you march toward the greatest rogue deck Standard PDC has ever seen.
As you noted, H, your deck is now capable of a turn 4 Bramble. That is good. I am just now noticing the lack of Last Gasp, which seems to be potent vs. early game adversaries. However, you mentioned that you sometimes dredge away your goods and reclaim them later. Perhaps it is a good idea not to have LG after all.
I may have gotten an idea for my own deck out of this: call it the ghost of your discarded strategies. If I ever tire of the red/white incarnation of weenie rush, I'll shift my gaze to :symgw:.
With some more tinkering, I'm wondering about more subtle choices in this deck.
I'm thinking 3x Civic Wayfinders and 4x Bramble Elementals. There's a lot of mana fixing/deck thinning in there now, so why not optimize the possibility of a turn 4 Bramble, turn 5 aura'ed Bramble?
Strangling Soot/Last Gasp/Disembowel. I went over my reasons for Disembowel earlier. However, with as much dredging as I plan on doing, it might be better to go 3x Soots and 3x Disembowels.
I would up the number of strangling soots. I think 3 and 3 makes sense.
I do have one more suggestion, as much as I am loathe to give this one....maybe Wood Elves over Civic Wayfinder? This would allow you to play a turn 4 bramble elemental more consistently. The downside is you can only look for a forest.....which would hurt your mana producing abilities, but you are also runningthe starfletcher to produce other types of mana....
The other concern is that your deck has a lot of 3cc spells and creatures, I am almost wondering if it may be better to run Llanowar elves over Wayfinder. Its hard for me to really judge as I need to see your deck in action, but it might add a bit of speed to your deck. I am still not sure if you should drop Wayfinder...but then again I am a bit partial to Wayfinder.
Also for those of you that know and love the people of mtgo, here is a lovely little gem from a game I played (it was an extended game and the kid was playing a cleric deck and at this point has dropped down a weathered wayfarer a godless shrine and a hallowed fountain was in no way loosing the game, I had played a second scatter the seeds on turn 7)
kid-"I posted only slow decks"
me- "sorry man, the vast majority of my deck is 3cc or above"
kid- "convoke is not slow"
me-"uhh,i only have one card in the deck with convoke...scatter the seeds, i just got lucky and got it twice"
kid- "when I saw one I was like ok, thats cool I guess"
kid- "then when I saw the second one it was like no man"
kid- "NO WAY MAN"
kid-"I am done with you"
The moral of the story kids, if you are getting upset over a common card whose cc is 5 and creates three 1/1's, you have more issues than I would like to get into.
Btw the deck I was playing cost the same amount as his Hallowed shrine.
So I tried 2x Civic Wayfinders and 2x Wood Elves, 3x Strangling Soot and 3x Disembowel, and took the deck up against Eegag's Harvester.
Pain in the asterisk.
I'm not positive a better draw would have helped that much. Once he got his Ledgewalker+Shell combo up, there wasn't much I could do. In fact, the only thing I could do was to keep casting Grim Harvest for a Silhana Starfletcher, casting that, then chump blocking.
There just is not a good way to deal with a big Ledgewalker. The only possibility that seems even somewhat workable is to use Shred Memory. I could use it to tutor for a Thallid Shell-Dweller or Deathspore Thallid. It would be good against Harvester and possiblely against Orzhov.
I'm not positive, but I think there's a trick where when the Haunt creature dies and touches the 'yard you can remove it before it removes itself for Haunting something else.
It was a 47 minute game before he finally overwhelmed me. If I focused on defense from the start, who knows how long it woulda lasted.
I am still looking over alot of the new cards. I still dont know what to build for pauper. I really can't think of anything either I still playing catch up in what kind of goals or decks I want to set out and build.
Well, to start - what do you like to play? We all have pet decks. The Rock is a personal fav. I try to build a variant in whatever format I find myself. Its much more difficult in pauper, but that just adds to some of the fun.
Are you a combo player? Control? Aggro? What are your favorite colors?
I am still looking over alot of the new cards. I still dont know what to build for pauper. I really can't think of anything either I still playing catch up in what kind of goals or decks I want to set out and build.
Well, there are a few ideas floating around that you could latch onto in Pauper. Right now we're looking at post-rotation Standard.
BR Land Destruction featuring Icefall RG Beats in Standard URGrapeshot Combo U Mono-Blue Control WU Control or Azorius Skies, or something else UB Madness RGW Silvers (or some variant) GU Something UR Fish WW or WW/ G Mono-Green Beats B Mono-Black BGW The Rock R Mono-Red
I personally am working on RW Aggro. Along with about 3 others on that list.
I was troubled by that damned Silhana Ledgewalker. It bothered me all day. I can't target the bastard. I can't count on damage to do the trick. I can't count on being able to block it reliably.
And, as I'm driving home wedged in traffic it hit me. I can block the daredevil - so why not use a spell that kills creatures that block or are blocked by? I'm thinking the answer is in Stinkweed Imp and/or Gaze of the Gorgon.
I'm thinking Stinkweed Imp is a great call anyway. He's part of the reason I'm running Pegasus Charger. In some circumstances, Stinky makes a great target for Shambling Shell counters.
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18 Snow-Covered Plains
4 Terramorphic Expanse
// Creatures
4 Amrou Scout
4 Amrou Seekers
4 Children of Korlis
4 Benalish Cavalry
4 Ronom Unicorn
4 Guardian of the Guildpact
4 Temporal Isolation
4 Gelid Shackles
4 Pentarch Ward
2 Faith's Fetters
And, here is an idea for WW/u:
10 Plains
4 Terramorphic Expanse
8 Island
// Creatures
4 Ronom Unicorn
4 Benalish Cavalry
4 Drifter il-Dal
4 Looter il-Kor
4 Guardian of the Guildpact
4 Azorious First-Wing
4 Pacifism
3 Plumes of Peace
3 Momentary Blink
4 Rune Snag
EDIT: Changed Temporal Isolation to Pacifism in the 2nd list. Don't want them chump blocking your Drifters and Looters.
Prison Yard (Pauper Future Extended)
I've been following your clan loosely for a while. Eegag has wanted me to play Pauper forever, and I finally decided to start. So, if you guys are still recruiting, I'd like to be a member.
Here's a decklist that I've been working on. Eegag helped me refine it, although I'm sure it could still see some changes. I think it has some definite potential in standard Pauper.
10 Forest
10 Island
2 Simic Growth Chamber
// Creatures
4 Sage of Epityr
4 Errant Ephemeron
4 Durkwood Baloth
4 Coiling Oracle
3 Herd Gnarr
2 Assault Zeppelid
4 Rune Snag
4 Search for Tomorrow
3 Repeal
3 Fists of Ironwood
3 Wildsize
Some other considerations: Vigean Hydropon, [card]Shielding Plax
[/card]
This deck has a simliar idea to Polyjak's previously posted "The New Simic," but with a different approach.
The basic idea is to suspend a few fatties in the first two turns, then counter/bounce things until they come into play. Hopefully, you'll have a Herd Gnarr waiting for the suspend guys, and the Gnarr becomes a fatty himself. Slap a few Fists onto the fatties to give them trample, all the while making the Gnarr even larger.
Input?
Just an idea, why not drop Durkwood Baloth for Bramble elemental. The Durkwood, while he is nice, I am not sure you want to run him for the suspend and wait 5 turns or hardcast him...for a vanilla 5/5, I am not sure its worth it.
If you run the Bramble elemental it has synergy with the fists of Ironwood that you are running already and especially if you are considering running Shielding Plax.
Another idea.
Civic Wayfinder instead of Search for Tomorrow?
I am not sure if these ideas are pulling you too far from the suspend idea, if so ignore me.
I would recommend looking at Ophidian Eye...instead of Shielding Plax if you are looking for another enchantment....it seems like it would work well with all the other cantrips in your deck to give you a lot of card advantage.
Other than that, I really like the idea of your deck, its cool.
http://magic.jwc4.com/blog/index.html
Welcome to the clan! I'm glad there's a Simic lover in our midst. The world of green/blue is an elusive one to me. However, I think that Time Spiral brings a lot of potential power to the color combo.
Eegag told me a little bit about your deck over AIM. I really like the idea of hanging big fatties in the sky, then filling the board with grafters, then bouncing and countering the heck out of the enemy until the fat comes down, and gets grafted, and pounds bigtime. That strategy seems like it may need a lot of pieces to be in place at the same time, but it sounds fun to try, at least.
I like the interaction of Sage of Epityr and Coiling Oracle a whole lot. It's obvious that you'll want to run lots of the suspend fatties. I'm not sure about Herd Gnarr, though. In a color that is known for cheaply costed fat, he seems too conditional for major play. I'd rather see something more stable in the 4-drop slot. Assault Zeppelid or Simic Ragworm or even Greater Mossdog as a recursive threat. While the deck wants to win with suspended fat, a backup plan is never a bad idea.
Ruinedlaw has recommended Civic Wayfinder as an alternative to Search for Tomorrow, and I'd second that idea. In my experience, Simic decks are able to build up a ton of mana, but often don't have anything to do with it. Having a mana-fetcher without a body seems unnecessary.
He also suggested a bunch of stuff I'm not so sure about. Bramble Elemental can be fun, but with cards like Skred in the format, even his 4 toughness can be cut down to size quickly in response to an aura being cast. I like Fists of Ironwood a lot, but without some beefier mid-range creatures in the deck, you may find you're holding it without a useful target.
Also, though Ophidian Eye may be a fun card, I would recommend Think Twice over the aura. Again, you want to suspend some fat and then get into a controlling board position. You may not have enough good targets for the Eye, but Think Twice can be used at opponent's EOT. I might also recommend one copy of Train of Thought as a hand refill. No deck is better at exploiting the replicate on this card than green/blue.
I think a greater number of counterspells would benefit you. I appreciate where you're coming from with Wildsize, and it may in fact be preferrable to Fists of Ironwood, but I don't think both are necessary.
There's defintely going to be some fine-tuning in the numbers for this deck, but I think it will be a very fun deck to test and try to pull off. If you have AIM and/or MWS, I'd be happy to test with you.
For reference, everyone, here's my "The New Simic" decklist. I've made a few changes since posting this, but I'll wait to do a formal write-up on it until after some testing.
9 Forest
9 Island
4 Terramorphic Expanse
//24 creatures//
4 Sage of Epityr
2 Durkwood Baloth
4 Coiling Oracle
3 Aquastrand Spider
4 Looter il-Kor
3 Assault Zeppelid
2 Errant Ephemeron
2 Greater Mossdog
4 Rune Snag
2 Peel from Reality
3 Think Twice
2 Repeal
2 Wildsize
1 Train of Thought
A classic Rock deck should be based upon disruption, creature control, card advantage, toolbox, and inevitability. It is typically a B/G or B/G/c deck, but the specific colors may be sacrificed for the deck's effectiveness. Given the recent addition of Terramorphic Expanse, I feel that it would be best to branch out to a third color for more flexibility.
In the current format, I see at least two feasible directions to take this deck. 1) Eidolon + multicolor creatures or 2) Saproling token production. Both options have a lot of draw for me.
With the Eidolons, you could play with Shambling Shells and Blind Hunters to recycle the Eidolons. I prefer the black as it gains you life and does damage. This card would nicely compliment the Shell + Ledgewalker combo.
With the saproling token production, you can get a LOT of use out of the Deathspore Thallid. A good way to go might be Bramble Elemental + Detainment Spell. With 2WW and one Elemental, you get 2 Saproling tokens. With two Elementals, you get 4 Saproling tokens.
Frankly, I'm torn as to which way I want to take this deck. If I go Eidolons, then I should add W for the Blind Hunters. If I go Saprolings, then I should consider adding more Thallids.
I'm tempted to go more Thallids because that will allow me to do a lot of things. Creature control with Deathspore Thallid, sac'ing creatures to Gutless Ghoul, card control with Thoughtpicker Witch, regeneration with Dimir House Guard.
A sidenote: Madness. Dark Withering and Gorgon Recluse are reasons to consider discard outlets. There's some real gems in the spellshapers. I like Greenseeker, Icatian Crier, Tolarian Sentinel, Tresspasser il-Vec, and Urborg Syphon-Mage.
Now, if you're playing Madness and discard outlets, why not take it a step further? If you are out of cards, why not make it an advantage? I'm talking about Hellbent. Demon's Jester and Slaughterhouse Bouncer.
For graveyard recursion, I like Grim Harvest and Pit Keeper best. A little trick with Grim Harvest is how it works with token creatures. For a brief moment, token creatures actually go to the graveyard. That means if you're playing token creatures, such as Saprolings, you can pull out a real creature from the 'yard every time a Sap dies.
I could use some help narrowing the deck. Ideas?
- H
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This sounds pretty potent. I wonder if the PDC gurus have tried the Eidolon in Harvester builds. The black one does seem like a good call, just to hedge your life total against encroaching burn.
I just want to caution you about the Bramble Elemental, in a format where Skred roams free. No creature is safe from a one-shot kill. Especially in conjunction with the unwieldly and slow usage fee of 2WW. It is one of the best ways to generate a large number of saps, though. But I predict the format will be chock full of removal and Bramble is a prime target, so basing anything around him could be iffy. Shielding Plax?
This might be the more fun way to go, especially since what you'd be doing otherwise is re-vamping the existing "archetype" of Harvester, which exploits the Shambling Shell / Ledgewalker / Grim Harvest interplay. Adding the Eidolon into that mix could make things insane.
Are you thinking maybe a BRG deck here? I'm curious how well Rakdos could fare with the new Time Spiral tools. Maybe someday when I'm done experimenting will all these other decks I'll turn my eyes to the demon-worshippers.
Excellent point. It all hinges on finding a reliable, steady supply of Saprolings, doesn't it?
It sounds like you have two or three distinct deck ideas here, and it might be fun to construct all three of them and test them separately. Once you get a feel for how cards play with each other and against other decks in the new format, you'll have more insight on what works or not. I'm not sure the Deathspore Thallid has enough ammo at present to make him a reliable element in a deck. (Planar Chaos may change that, especially if we revisit Ravnica mechanics.) But by all means, give it a shot. There's nothing at stake in MWS, everything's free and digital.
If I were you, I might start from some variant of Harvester, even if it's just 4 Ledgewalker, 4 Shambling Shell, 3 Grim Harvest, and some other stuff, and work outward from there.
Yeah, it did seem like a few different deck ideas. I may just need to do several diff decks and see what works.
-H
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Shloukas, I think the deck needs a bit more testing. The one thing I'd like to see in there is Aquastrand Spider. He's a bear early game that can serve to increase the stats of your fatties later. Bramble Elemental and Vigean Hydropon seem a bit too slow for me. Shielding Plax may be a good sideboard card against a removal-filled deck. Regarding Plax, I like that you can play it on a fattie the turn they come into play, as your mana will be free.
Polyjak, the New Simic looks rather like a jumble of neat cards instead of a focused list. That's not to say that it won't work, because it may - there are a lot of good cards in there. I think you have the best U/G can offer, but I don't know if the numbers are right.
Haloscope, I really liked your post - it got me thinking. The two ideas you presented with the most potential are adding Eidolons to the Shambling Shell / Silhana Ledgewalker engine and Thallid Rock. I think either direction has potential, but I would avoid shenanigans with Detainment Spell. Bramble Elemental, on the other hand, combined with auras like Shielding Plax or Fists of Ironwood, might be a good addition. With Deathspore Thallid, both Fists and Scatter the Seeds act as creature generators as well as removal if needed. Even Sprout can chump block then Darkblast.
Prison Yard (Pauper Future Extended)
3x Detainment Spell
4x Disembowel
3x Strangling Soot
//Recursion
3x Grim Harvest
//Creatures
4x Deathspore Thallid
4x Silhana Ledgewalker
4x Shambling Shell
2x Thallid Germinator
3x Civic Wayfinder
2x Sporeback Troll
4x Bramble Elemental
3x Plains
9x Forest
7x Swamp
4x Terramorphic Expanse
1x Mountain
4x Tin Street Hooligan
4x Aven Cloudchaser
7x ?
The dying Saproling/Grim Harvest combo worked really well. Killing a bunch of creatures using Saps and the Deathspore Thallid at the end of turn, bringing a creature back, then paying to recover the Harvest was just too much fun. However, I found that I would occasionally really want some Saps out on the board before I dropped the Deathspore. I think this is what makes Scatter the Seeds a good idea.
Oh, yeah, almost forgot, game 2 I got clubbed like a baby seal by flying creatures. That hurt.
-H
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The bramble elemental is a must, I agree with you a 100%.
I was wondering if maybe there were a few changed you might want to make.
I wonder how Strangling Soot is running, I know that it has flashback, but I do not know if there is a better answer? if you get the thallid going flashback may not need to be a big deal. I would look at running Last Gasp instead, and maybe even cutting Disembowel For Last Gasp instead.
I think someone suggested it earlier (maybe not to your deck but anyways) Aquastrand Spider would be a good addition to fight flyers. Stinkweed Imp would work just as well.
You may also want to look at adding more enchantments to the deck, as you can use the saprolings in a number of different ways. Specifically Fists of the Ironwood.
Also, you may want to think about shred memory for your sideboard, or even mainboard, you can use it to tutor for your death thallid or if you add aquastrand spider. Also it allows you to deal with other people running the shambling shell ledgewalker combo, as you can remove their dredge creatures from the game.
Jak,
You yourself said that WB and GB are the best two deck in right now, if that is the case why are you worried about Skred...last i checked neither of those decks had red mana. Secondly your argument that there is lots of creature removal just doesnt hold, ok, so should we all play creatureless decks. Bramble elemental is amazing for his deck, if he looses it, its not like he cant win the game. Your argument is like saying that someone should not run jitte in their deck because people run hate for it (in type II). If you have a card that your opponent must come up with an answer for or lose, you have to play it regardless of whether or not there is hate, and so far the only spell in pauper that is normally played that can kill Bramble elemental is skred, i think you may be overreacting a bit.
http://magic.jwc4.com/blog/index.html
I like the Aquastrand Spider idea. I have a little graft in there... But I'm not sure what I think about it yet. It *should* work great with Shambling Shell... But it wasn't something I ever got to test in either of those games. I did get to add a counter to my Thallid twice - hoping to be able to regenerate him later. But that never panned out.
Strangling Soot was an All-Star in this deck. As was the Disembowel. I was running the Disembowl because I want a toughness-independent way to kill opposing creatures. With Slivers coming to the table soon and especially the proliferation of Auras, I like not having to care about an X/4 or X/5.
I still question the usefulness of my own Ledgewalker. I guess I could always dial it back to 2 or 1 and play a little 'yard hate/tutoring with Shred Memory. At the 2cc and below cost, I had Thallid Shell-Dweller for the wall-i-ness and early Sap production. The Thallid Germinator was more of an afterthought. I was also running 4x Greenseeker and 3x Gorgon Recluses. I figured I'd rather have 4/4's and tokens with the Bramble than 2/4's that killed nonblack creatures. Without the Gorgon, I was less inclined to use the Greenseeker for discard.
On Bramble Elemental. Damn near every time I played him, he got Skred-ed. However, with the Grim Harvest, I didn't particularly care. And, one of the best parts is - if I didn't have a GH I could just dredge until I did. Dredging also got me Strangling Soot. (Although, I didn't get to use the Flashback part in either game).
On Saprolings. I generally don't start producing a lot of them until I get one Bramble-Detainment Spell online. So, having a 2cc Thallid which kills opposing creatures isn't as useful at 2cc as you'd think. I'm thinking of cutting him back to 3x - since I don't need him until everything else is in place. Ideally, I'd drop him, graft a few counters on, sac a few Saps, and be on my way. Fists of Ironwood is undoubtedly *the* cheapest and fastest way to generate two Saps. I was also thinking of adding in Scatter the Seeds for early-ish instant speed Sap production. If I've got a Deathspore out, its a convoke-able Last Gasp...
On more Auras. I've always been a HUGE fan of Necromantic Thirst and the Magemarks. Without a reliable way to punch through an opponent, I don't see the percentage in playing the NThirst. However, the Magemarks seem a viable option. I'm liking the Necromancer's Magemark for this deck. Thoughts on Auras?
- H
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Haloscope, I think you're beginning to establish the core strategies of your deck:
- Defensive Play: using saprolings to chump block and kill opposing creatures and running a decent amount of balanced removal.
- Resilient Creatures: Shambling Shell, Silhana Ledgewalker, Sporeback Troll, and Thallid Germinator are all resilient themselves or help to make other creatures resilient (or both).
- Card Advantage: utilizing the dredge engine of Shambling Shell in combination with the recover and flashback.
You alluded to these basic ideas in your first post on "The Rock," but now I can really see them in your design. With that being established, I feel as though these serve as your "core" cards:
Shambling Shell, Grim Harvest, Strangling Soot, Sporeback Troll, Silhana Ledgewalker.
I know you are debating about Ledgewalker's effectiveness. However, I feel as though the more you test with it, the more you will recognize the effect it has on your ability to win. Maybe taking it out is the best move at this point, however: if you find yourself missing it, you'll know that it should probably keep a place in the deck.
Of the other cards you have, here are those which I think aid your basic strategy the most:
Deathspore Thallid, Aquastrand Spider, Fists of Ironwood, Scatter the Seeds, Thallid Germinator
Unfortunately, we can't pack everything into this single deck. From your initial list, I would probably remove Detainment Spell for Fists of Ironwood. I would also probably cut a single Bramble Elemental in favor of another Civic Wayfidner, Sporeback Troll, or Thallid Germinator.
Our discussions here, combined with an increasing trend in Standard PDC events and discussions elsewhere, lead me to believe that the future of SPDC may be in three-color control. With Terramorphic Expanse, 3cc is becoming a lot more reliable. I have an idea of my own based around an early proposal by Haloscope for another version of 3cc, which I will post later today or tomorrow.
Prison Yard (Pauper Future Extended)
I don't want to discourage you, Haloscope, from attempting to create one heck of a token-based kill engine, but considering it essentially costs you 5GGWW before you reap a benefit that surpasses Scatter the Seeds, I might recommend an alternative strategy.
Unless, of course, you beat face with the Bramble Elemental. I guess I'm not accounting for that element of the combo.
I don't mean to imply that everyone should run creatureless decks. That would be silly. But I am trying to draw attention to the fact that creature-based, mana-intensive combos are likely to fail in an environment so full of efficient removal. Especially an environment so diverse that removal is sure to be quite prevalent.
Moreover, you have to look at these things in terms of investments. A Fists of Ironwood, if it hits the board is essentially a 3 for 1. You get a creature with trample and two 1/1's. A well timed Ophidian Eye is at least a 1 for 1, and at best a whole lot more.
Yes, Skred is out there. So are any number of creature kill spells. However, when the payoff can be so great, its worth the gamble. Especially when you can control when you cast the spell.
The black magemark is also such a card. At worst, your creatures gets a +1/+1 and then returns from beyond the grave. A GREAT spell for a graft deck. Think about it. You give away ALL the counters and can still use their abilities!
- H
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I dunno, I dunno. All I do know is, Fists of Ironwood is amazing. And Pillory of the Sleepless. Those are auras I can get behind.
10x Forest
7x Swamp
4x Terramorphic Expanse
2x Plains
1x Mountain
4x Aquastrand Spider
4x Thallid Shell-Dweller
3x Deathspore Thallid
4x Shambling Shell
1x Sporeback Troll
4x Bramble Elemental
3x Necromancer's Magemark
4x Fists of Ironwood
//Good Stuff - 9
4x Disembowel
2x Strangling Soot
3x Grim Harvest
Also, a few notes on playing it. I've found that if I don't get what I need, I can just Dredge until I get a Grim Harvest and then pick and choose what I need out of the graveyard. This helps make it a toolbox type deck.
Now, I know Polyjak is down on Detainment Spell in favor of Fists of Ironwood, but I had another idea as to how Detainment Spell can really help in this deck. Suppose you have a Necromancer's Magemark out and another creature is in danger of dying. You switch the Detainment Spell to the endangered creature. Instant speed +1/+1 AND if it dies, it comes back into play. I think the possibilities available with these cards and their potential interaction is too good to pass up. One Bramble Elemental and one Detainment Spell is all I really need to get the deck online. Without anything else, the Bramble is a meaty creature. The Detainment Spell as a defensive spell is, admittedly, limited and situational at best. However, its worth playing for the potential interactions and payoffs.
This deck has good mid-to-late game stabilization and is weak early on. In the late game, I'm not really concerned with what my opponent is doing since I can just pick everyone out of the graveyard and start over. Its the early game that is really painful. Polyjak ripped my hand apart with nasty Orzhov tricks. After that the flyers and Pillory's did me in. The deck can be strengthened by either making it more defensive or more offensive.
To make it more defensive: Silhana Starfletcher, Stinkweed Imp, or Frostweb Spider. More offensive: Aquastrand Spider (its really a bear, after all), Ravenous Rats, Thoughtpicker Witch, and Blind Hunter. Another tactic is to balance the deck more towards early game by cutting the Bramble Elementals and Grim Harvests back to 2x each and fishing them out of the 'yard when I'm ready to move into the late game. I could use the extra space to add early game cards for more defense or more offense.
On Graft. I like this a lot, but question its overall usefulness. The best graft trick I pulled off was to stack counters from the Shambling Shell on the Aquastrand Spider and then a little later pull a TON of counters off of my Thallids to make several 2/2 Saprolings. Giving things the ability to block flying was not nearly as useful as you'd think. The regeneration benefits of Sporeback Troll not that great. He's expensive for a 2/2 and expensive to use. Ultimately, I think I'd rather just let the creature die and then bring it back.
On flying creatures. The best options so far seem to be Stinky, Aquastrand Spider, Silhana Starfletcher, and the Frostweb Spider. Aquastrand by itself is kind of tiny to do anything on its own. This leaves Frostweb and Starfletcher. Of the two, Starfletcher seems like the way to go - it stops early flyers and helps with mana.
I don't have the manabase right yet. I'm not sure what the answer is yet, either. I could go all Forests/Swamps and then use the Boros Signet, Prismatic Lens, or the Boros Garrison. I want to try the Civic Wayfinders again. Between the Terramorphic Expanse and Civic Wayfinder should give me enough mana fixing and deck thinning. I hate getting stuck with lands in hand late in game.
Overhaul time. After very limited testing, I'd go:
-4 Fists of Ironwood
+3 Detainment Spell
-1 Plains
+1 Swamp
-1 Sporeback Troll
-1 Necromancer's Magemark
-4 Aquastrand Spider
-1 Bramble Elemental
+4 Silhana Starfletcher
+4 Civic Wayfinder
Which gives us:
10x Forest
8x Swamp
4x Terramorphic Expanse
1x Plains
1x Mountain
4x Thallid Shell-Dweller
3x Deathspore Thallid
4x Silhana Starfletcher
4x Civic Wayfinder
4x Shambling Shell
3x Bramble Elemental
2x Necromancer's Magemark
3x Detainment Spell
//Good Stuff - 9
4x Disembowel
2x Strangling Soot
3x Grim Harvest
Still needs lots more testing. Thoughts?
-H
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I am happy to see your mass of ideas taking shape in a focused deck, Haloscope. You have done a great deal of match analysis to come to your card choices. My inherent bias against auras cannot stand in your way as you march toward the greatest rogue deck Standard PDC has ever seen.
As you noted, H, your deck is now capable of a turn 4 Bramble. That is good. I am just now noticing the lack of Last Gasp, which seems to be potent vs. early game adversaries. However, you mentioned that you sometimes dredge away your goods and reclaim them later. Perhaps it is a good idea not to have LG after all.
I may have gotten an idea for my own deck out of this: call it the ghost of your discarded strategies. If I ever tire of the red/white incarnation of weenie rush, I'll shift my gaze to :symgw:.
I'm thinking 3x Civic Wayfinders and 4x Bramble Elementals. There's a lot of mana fixing/deck thinning in there now, so why not optimize the possibility of a turn 4 Bramble, turn 5 aura'ed Bramble?
Strangling Soot/Last Gasp/Disembowel. I went over my reasons for Disembowel earlier. However, with as much dredging as I plan on doing, it might be better to go 3x Soots and 3x Disembowels.
-H
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I would up the number of strangling soots. I think 3 and 3 makes sense.
I do have one more suggestion, as much as I am loathe to give this one....maybe Wood Elves over Civic Wayfinder? This would allow you to play a turn 4 bramble elemental more consistently. The downside is you can only look for a forest.....which would hurt your mana producing abilities, but you are also runningthe starfletcher to produce other types of mana....
The other concern is that your deck has a lot of 3cc spells and creatures, I am almost wondering if it may be better to run Llanowar elves over Wayfinder. Its hard for me to really judge as I need to see your deck in action, but it might add a bit of speed to your deck. I am still not sure if you should drop Wayfinder...but then again I am a bit partial to Wayfinder.
Also for those of you that know and love the people of mtgo, here is a lovely little gem from a game I played (it was an extended game and the kid was playing a cleric deck and at this point has dropped down a weathered wayfarer a godless shrine and a hallowed fountain was in no way loosing the game, I had played a second scatter the seeds on turn 7)
kid-"I posted only slow decks"
me- "sorry man, the vast majority of my deck is 3cc or above"
kid- "convoke is not slow"
me-"uhh,i only have one card in the deck with convoke...scatter the seeds, i just got lucky and got it twice"
kid- "when I saw one I was like ok, thats cool I guess"
kid- "then when I saw the second one it was like no man"
kid- "NO WAY MAN"
kid-"I am done with you"
The moral of the story kids, if you are getting upset over a common card whose cc is 5 and creates three 1/1's, you have more issues than I would like to get into.
Btw the deck I was playing cost the same amount as his Hallowed shrine.
http://magic.jwc4.com/blog/index.html
Pain in the asterisk.
I'm not positive a better draw would have helped that much. Once he got his Ledgewalker+Shell combo up, there wasn't much I could do. In fact, the only thing I could do was to keep casting Grim Harvest for a Silhana Starfletcher, casting that, then chump blocking.
There just is not a good way to deal with a big Ledgewalker. The only possibility that seems even somewhat workable is to use Shred Memory. I could use it to tutor for a Thallid Shell-Dweller or Deathspore Thallid. It would be good against Harvester and possiblely against Orzhov.
I'm not positive, but I think there's a trick where when the Haunt creature dies and touches the 'yard you can remove it before it removes itself for Haunting something else.
It was a 47 minute game before he finally overwhelmed me. If I focused on defense from the start, who knows how long it woulda lasted.
- H
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Well, to start - what do you like to play? We all have pet decks. The Rock is a personal fav. I try to build a variant in whatever format I find myself. Its much more difficult in pauper, but that just adds to some of the fun.
Are you a combo player? Control? Aggro? What are your favorite colors?
- H
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Well, there are a few ideas floating around that you could latch onto in Pauper. Right now we're looking at post-rotation Standard.
BR Land Destruction featuring Icefall
RG Beats in Standard
UR Grapeshot Combo
U Mono-Blue Control
WU Control or Azorius Skies, or something else
UB Madness
RGW Silvers (or some variant)
GU Something
UR Fish
WW or WW/
G Mono-Green Beats
B Mono-Black
BGW The Rock
R Mono-Red
I personally am working on RW Aggro. Along with about 3 others on that list.
I was troubled by that damned Silhana Ledgewalker. It bothered me all day. I can't target the bastard. I can't count on damage to do the trick. I can't count on being able to block it reliably.
And, as I'm driving home wedged in traffic it hit me. I can block the daredevil - so why not use a spell that kills creatures that block or are blocked by? I'm thinking the answer is in Stinkweed Imp and/or Gaze of the Gorgon.
Gotta test this.
-H
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