Unless money is an issue, why not run dark confidant in place of the arenas? You have a pretty low mana curve and if needs be, you can control the life loss with jitte (kill bob or gain life)
22 lands all the way, btw.
and replace the soul spike with some black creature kill like last gasp.
I personally would still prefer the arena. The arena is harder to get rid off and will piss you off even more! Getting a 3 mana = minus 3 life, land = -0life. I would rather always have -1 life. And agreed on last gasp
I agree with ***. Players are far more prepared to deal with creatures than they are to deal with Enchantments (unlessthey'rerunningwhite), so Phyrexian Arena is usually safer. The only reason I can see for running Bob over it is because Bob can be used as a source for Black's many sacrifice costs, or it can be used for aggro purposes. However, you already have 20 efficient aggro creatures, leaving Bob kind of useless in that regard.
I agree with ***. Players are far more prepared to deal with creatures than they are to deal with Enchantments (unlessthey'rerunningwhite), so Phyrexian Arena is usually safer. The only reason I can see for running Bob over it is because Bob can be used as a source for Black's many sacrifice costs, or it can be used for aggro purposes. However, you already have 20 efficient aggro creatures, leaving Bob kind of useless in that regard.
I can't argue against "More creatures = more Jitte beats", but I can certainly counter that statement with "1 toughness creature that gives card advantage = lightning rod". There are very few things this guy can't survive. If all you want to do is get counters on the Jitte, there are better ways of doing that (*cough*First Strike*cough*). Basically, it all comes down to what you want more: a body or consistent card advantage. I assumed he would prefer consistent card advantage, which Phyrexian Arena does better than Bob simply because so few cards outside of white affect enchantments. Plus, he's keeping a pretty good deck ratio: 22 lands, 19 creatures, 19 spells (if he follows ***'s advice). Based on that, there's a good probability that his opening hand will have a fairly balanced composition. It's doubtful he'll be at a loss for creatures.
Anyone claiming that Arena is better than BoB in U/B aggro is clearly incorrect - as a keen player of this archetype, I can say with absolute confidence that only a deck that cares about its life total would run arena over Bob.
Aggro, by definition, works by reducing its opponents life to zero as quickly as possible.
Arena does nothing to further this goal.
Dark Mahen does this very admirably - it's a 2 damage per turn arena in a deck like that - the additional life penalities should mean very little. And he is an extra pair of hands for the demon-fork.
Control, in the other hand, works by surviving until the late game where its generally higher-costed spells and slower but more powerful effects can dominate the game.
Mahen, in this sort of archetype, is strictly inferior to arena. In control, it is the extra card advantage that means everything. The 2/1 body is irrelevant in the endgame and for that reason, comparing the two effects by themselves clearly shows arena to be the winner.
I feel quite strongly about this choice - as it is one that has constantly been argued over and over again since Dark Confidant's conception into Ravnica.
Aggro likes bob.
Control likes Arena.
Trust me.
Speedy, however, you DO need to get over this obsession you have with 20-land/40-spell decks. Eventually, you will realize that decks are more consistant with 23 lands.
Especially a deck like that with 8 4-drops.
My deck that won (posting for the 4th time since tourney began)
I guess Wuffles just completely owned me. ^^;
*sigh*
Sometimes I really wonder if I'll ever be any good at this game. I seem to lack the intuition and thought processes that the better players have.
Don't be too worried man - I have been playing magic nine years is all. (on and off, but thats not the point, the only sets i completely missed since mirage were invasion block and MM block - one of which i'm annoyed for missing and one of which had a deck called "rebels" in it)
I have been taking this game very seriously of late, as this is the first time I have ever qualified for nationals with it being in my current city of residence. Bust schedules and lack of money have ensured by exclusion from said events up until now, so i really don't want to screw this event up.
Magic Theory, however, is really only for those that can be bothered with it. I have found it sorta quells my enthusiasm for random decks.
Thanks for the advice, but do i really need more lands? and soul spike is awesome, i like it a LOT better than last gasp, b/c by Turn 4 or 5 they usually are at 4 or less life thanks to my little friend. Also, with all the testing i have done i have nvr been short on mana. ill probably take out 1 arena and add 1 more land just in case though...
Will the upcoming extended tournament have the U/R 1/3 rule, or will it allow us to be a little bit more creative? And how would sideboards factor into the equation?
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(U/R) High Mage of Unpredictability and Leader of the [Izzet] Clan. (U/R) Sales Thread
Will the upcoming extended tournament have the U/R 1/3 rule, or will it allow us to be a little bit more creative? And how would sideboards factor into the equation?
@ Rocker - I'm not entirely sure, I think C-man is running this one - but we were discussing it, and i seems like it would be the same sort of format, aside from the fact that it is extended and not Standard.
Sideboards are like a separate deck as far as deciding what the restrictions are - so you can only have one green card per one red card and one blue card.
Not sure what prizes for htis one are yet. I will keep you informed.
Mana bases are one of the toughtest things to figure out in Magic. It seems like such a simple thing, but even the smallest changes will have a large impact on the game.
congrats on 500, wuffles!
@ speedy: Even aggro decks really want to make thier early land drops and be able to take advantage of the early game where they are supposed to win. Your deck will be better at 22 lands overall. You'll have a more consistent game and be able to enter into the red with full force. You might even shave a half turn off your average goldfish with 2 extra lands.
Hey, how's my ex-clanmates going? offerings are in order for 500 posts Wuffles. Just dropped in to say hi, and to post about my tourneys that I'm running on MWS. Here's the linkys.
@ speedy: Even aggro decks really want to make thier early land drops and be able to take advantage of the early game where they are supposed to win. Your deck will be better at 22 lands overall. You'll have a more consistent game and be able to enter into the red with full force. You might even shave a half turn off your average goldfish with 2 extra lands.
Poor goldfish
go go wuffles for 500!
And now i have to make an extended Izzet deck. MWAHAHAH
Well, I am officially moving online, so I'm selling my physical cards. Take a look at my thread: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=1265631#post1265631 if you are interested in buying great cards at cheap prices. Also, members of this clan will get a 5% discount on all cards!
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Thanks to Charlie Donaldson for Banner Straight Member of the Gaymers
welcome back, ***. You DO know that failing to play MWS will lead you to an early grave...
Oh yeah, ***, Shino_Tenshi is planning a Tribal Extended tournament. You might want to enter with ... a certain creature type that you seem to like so much
I can see that one new counterspell for R or G being a good sideboard card, and maybe rune snag. But that is all i see playable for U/R control in coldsnap
I hated Pirates II. Some of my friends liked it. Im not sure what advice to give u. but it did have this in it
There u go
22 lands all the way, btw.
and replace the soul spike with some black creature kill like last gasp.
:symur::symur::symur:High Mage of Chronomancy in the Clan of Izzet:symur::symur::symur:
The Chronomancers: When It Absolutely, Positively, Has To Get Done 5 Days Ago
Random Quote of the Week
You forgot the most important one
In the aggro-style deck with Jitte that you're running, you absolutely should run Bob over Arena.
For a start, Bob comes down turn 2 and as such doesnt get Mana Leak'd if you're on the play, and very few decks run maindeck spell snare.
More creatures = More jitte beats.
:symur::symur::symur:High Mage of Chronomancy in the Clan of Izzet:symur::symur::symur:
The Chronomancers: When It Absolutely, Positively, Has To Get Done 5 Days Ago
Random Quote of the Week
Aggro, by definition, works by reducing its opponents life to zero as quickly as possible.
Arena does nothing to further this goal.
Dark Mahen does this very admirably - it's a 2 damage per turn arena in a deck like that - the additional life penalities should mean very little. And he is an extra pair of hands for the demon-fork.
Control, in the other hand, works by surviving until the late game where its generally higher-costed spells and slower but more powerful effects can dominate the game.
Mahen, in this sort of archetype, is strictly inferior to arena. In control, it is the extra card advantage that means everything. The 2/1 body is irrelevant in the endgame and for that reason, comparing the two effects by themselves clearly shows arena to be the winner.
I feel quite strongly about this choice - as it is one that has constantly been argued over and over again since Dark Confidant's conception into Ravnica.
Aggro likes bob.
Control likes Arena.
Trust me.
Speedy, however, you DO need to get over this obsession you have with 20-land/40-spell decks. Eventually, you will realize that decks are more consistant with 23 lands.
Especially a deck like that with 8 4-drops.
My deck that won (posting for the 4th time since tourney began)
4 Urza's Mine
4 Steam Vents
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
1 Breeding Pool
4 Shivan Reef
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Island
Creatures (6)
2 Simic Sky Swallower
3 Keiga, the Tide Star
1 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
2 Simic Signet
4 Compulsive Research
3 Tidings
2 Demonfire
4 Izzet Signet
3 Electrolyze
3 Wildfire
4 Mana Leak
4 Remand
2 Repeal
2 Repeal
4 Annex
4 Spell Snare
2 Dream Leash
3 Pyroclasm
Rawr.
I like pie.
Extended signups starting soon.
*sigh*
Sometimes I really wonder if I'll ever be any good at this game. I seem to lack the intuition and thought processes that the better players have.
:symur::symur::symur:High Mage of Chronomancy in the Clan of Izzet:symur::symur::symur:
The Chronomancers: When It Absolutely, Positively, Has To Get Done 5 Days Ago
Random Quote of the Week
Don't be too worried man - I have been playing magic nine years is all. (on and off, but thats not the point, the only sets i completely missed since mirage were invasion block and MM block - one of which i'm annoyed for missing and one of which had a deck called "rebels" in it)
I have been taking this game very seriously of late, as this is the first time I have ever qualified for nationals with it being in my current city of residence. Bust schedules and lack of money have ensured by exclusion from said events up until now, so i really don't want to screw this event up.
Magic Theory, however, is really only for those that can be bothered with it. I have found it sorta quells my enthusiasm for random decks.
I like pie.
Eric
200: 07/17/06 @21:03 PST
500: 05/05/07 @11:48 PST
666: 08/27/07 @11:36 PST
777: 01/28/08 @20:22 PST
800: 04/07/08 @19:18 PST
888: 08/08/08 @16:12 PST
900: 08/12/08 @16:57 PST
1000:12/22/08 @ 18:01 PST
MTGS Legacy Tournament #5 Semi-finalist.
MTGS Legacy Tournament #6 Top 8.
Sales Thread
Is there another tourney coming up?
@ Rocker - I'm not entirely sure, I think C-man is running this one - but we were discussing it, and i seems like it would be the same sort of format, aside from the fact that it is extended and not Standard.
Sideboards are like a separate deck as far as deciding what the restrictions are - so you can only have one green card per one red card and one blue card.
Not sure what prizes for htis one are yet. I will keep you informed.
Edit: RAWR! 500th post for me
congrats on 500, wuffles!
@ speedy: Even aggro decks really want to make thier early land drops and be able to take advantage of the early game where they are supposed to win. Your deck will be better at 22 lands overall. You'll have a more consistent game and be able to enter into the red with full force. You might even shave a half turn off your average goldfish with 2 extra lands.
Extended Tribal
Legacy
Depending on how things go, I may run more formats.
an unnatural love towardsperfectly reasonable respect for Lightning Bolt.The Kiwi third of The Salt Mine Podcast: An Australian Legacy Podcast
Poor goldfish
go go wuffles for 500!
And now i have to make an extended Izzet deck. MWAHAHAH
*runs off to laboratorie laughing madly*
So, i've talked to C-man about this tourney - and apparently he's running it.
So, yeah, he'll be posting shortly with rules, I hope.
rawr.
I like pie.
Thanks to Charlie Donaldson for Banner
Straight Member of the Gaymers
High Mage of Frontier Knowledge in the [Izzet] clan:symru: Want to know the secret to chaos Click Here
You told me you wanted to run it man, so please be a good tourney organiser and do it. Rules, prizes, etc, please.
Aside from that, I'm going to see pirates of the Carribbean 2 soon, any recommendations on this front? Should I be seeing it? was it good?
What cards in Coldsnap are going to see play in U/R do you guys think?
i like pie.
Oh yeah, ***, Shino_Tenshi is planning a Tribal Extended tournament. You might want to enter with ... a certain creature type that you seem to like so much
I hated Pirates II. Some of my friends liked it. Im not sure what advice to give u. but it did have this in it
Also, just for fun (and horror)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KN0zxVkTH6A&search=magic%20ice%20age
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwIPwi_FSVc&search=magic%20homelands
Isnt that the biggest WTF youve ever seen?
200: 07/17/06 @21:03 PST
500: 05/05/07 @11:48 PST
666: 08/27/07 @11:36 PST
777: 01/28/08 @20:22 PST
800: 04/07/08 @19:18 PST
888: 08/08/08 @16:12 PST
900: 08/12/08 @16:57 PST
1000:12/22/08 @ 18:01 PST
MTGS Legacy Tournament #5 Semi-finalist.
MTGS Legacy Tournament #6 Top 8.
Hey there, my Izzet friends. How's thngs going in the land of R/U?
@Canada Man: I would buy cards, but I can't really afford them/afford postage to NZ. And also for the fact that I will never use Paypal.
an unnatural love towardsperfectly reasonable respect for Lightning Bolt.The Kiwi third of The Salt Mine Podcast: An Australian Legacy Podcast