You may notice that I am an inactive, yet fully fledged member of that clan. In fact, if you look waaaaay back on page #1, you can see that I was the first to "join"
Did anyone see Laura Bush's speech last night. Surprisingly funny. Some excerpts that stand out in my mind:
Quote from Laura Bush »
But George and I are complete opposites. I'm quiet...he's talkative; I'm introverted...he's extroverted; I can pronounce 'nuclear'...
Any problem we have at the ranch, George's solution is to take a chainsaw to it; I guess that's why he gets along with Cheney and Rumsfeld(sp) so well.
What people don't realize, especially liberals who yell about all the people below the poverty line, is that the poverty line is not as low as one might think. I know a lot of people below the poverty line...my neighbor for example. Yes, he's below the poverty line...with his 52 inch plasma TV and his 2003 Mustang he bought recently. The govt's official poverty line is a joke, really.
I'm sorry, but he cannot be under the poverty line. Considering I lived just above or below the line for most of my childhood, I can tell you this is bunk. Just because you believe his income is at the poverty line doesn't make it true. Let's not have your inability to understand socioeconomy make a completely baseless post worse.
Slainte,
-Loonook
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Debating on Salvation because News just doesn't have the oomph for me . . .
Check me out on News if you feel I'm a 'newbie' when it comes to debate
What people don't realize, especially liberals who yell about all the people below the poverty line, is that the poverty line is not as low as one might think. I know a lot of people below the poverty line...my neighbor for example. Yes, he's below the poverty line...with his 52 inch plasma TV and his 2003 Mustang he bought recently. The govt's official poverty line is a joke, really.
Well, since the poverty threshold for a one person household in America is $8,980* a year, I'll have to take refute to what you're saying as well. Divided by 12, $8,980 yields $748.30 a month. If you're going to try and tell me that $748.30 a month is enough to own a new plasma TV and a new Mustang, I'm going to laugh at you and call B.S. on it.
*: Source: Federal Register, Vol. 68, No. 26, February 7, 2003, pp. 6456-6458.
On a side note, Goblinboy, it might be advisable to remove jasaicrai from the member list; it can be replaced with Loonook, if he so desires.
Onto the the issue at hand.
I'm sorry, but he cannot be under the poverty line. Considering I lived just above or below the line for most of my childhood, I can tell you this is bunk. Just because you believe his income is at the poverty line doesn't make it true. Let's not have your inability to understand socioeconomy make a completely baseless post worse.
Good old Loonook; you know, I knew there was something wrong with jasaicrai...he didn't end every post directed at me with an insult. But I digress. In any event, I too have lived my early childhood hovering around the poverty line(either just above or below) and I know what constitutes that line. I can verify( though I suppose I can't prove it) that he makes, reportedly(from his wife/mistress/whatever she is) just over $8,000 a year1. There are many plausible explanations for this...credit card, for one; banks will give those things to just about anybody; Welfare, for another. But hey, maybe I'm indeed wrong...in fact, that blaring thing across the hall might not be a TV at all, but a figment of my often over-active imagination. And the car that I pass by on my way to my own car...I guess I'm imagining that, too.
Anyway, I need to get back to work. I have 2 more hours of my shift, and I'm on my lunch. I was only supposed to work until 3, but they asked me to stay until 7.
1: A sidenote. Have you ever noticed that the wealthy find it vulgar to discuss money and how much of it they make...but those with none use it as small talk subject? I learned of my neighbor's income while passing his wife/mistress/whatever in the hallway. I said, "How do you do," and she replied[not verbatim, of course] "Well, you know, money's tight and all. James only pulled in eight grand last year, so we're struggling."
Ummm... I don't think a plazma TV and new car count as struggling... and possably she wan't telling the entire truth?
- BTW, wouldn't just the plazma cost a goodly portion of that $8000, even ignoring the car? Maybe she ment $8000 that they saved, after buying everything... ?
EDIT:The car alone would cost over $8000 if it's as good as you say. =p
That's why I was thinking Credit Card, or possibly theft? Anyway, I confirmed that she meant he made 8 grand. I spoke to her when I got home from work a few minutes ago.
"How's it goin', kid?" she asked me.
"Fine, though I'm breaking my ass for no pay."
"Yeah, Jim's got the same problem. He made what, eight thousand last year. It's terrible."
In any case, I'm not going to ask him how he acquired the TV and the car...I think that's a little too personal for my tastes, especially if it involves questionable legality.
If he didn't buy it, then you can hardly argue that his haveing it means that you can buy cool things under the poverty line. Also; there's way he could affort the intrest payments on all that stuff if he only makes $8000 a year.
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Banana of the Month Feb '05 Cool stuff here.
True. I didn't really mean to get into a huge debate over specifics.
Another note about old Jimmy. He works for minimum wage at one of the restaurants on Main Street; He's a healthy young man, capable of much more than a less than full time job at Wendy's or whatever. And yet...he refuses to work more than 30-35 or so hours a week...and he only works the one job. His wife plays bingo. What I don't understand, but would like to, is this: why would people willingly live in nigh-abject poverty(with the exception of a few big possessions, he is rather impoverished)? Why do people put themselves in that situation, when they can easily get out of it? I've never understood that mentality...
*shrugs* He values his free time? Maybe he can get the basic stuff he wants, and goes on the internet for his entertainment. I'd probably do my best to get a better job than that, but... well, I can see how some people wouldn't.
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Possibly the last remaining member of the Banana Clan (+1)
Banana of the Month Feb '05 Cool stuff here.
True. I didn't really mean to get into a huge debate over specifics.
Another note about old Jimmy. He works for minimum wage at one of the restaurants on Main Street; He's a healthy young man, capable of much more than a less than full time job at Wendy's or whatever. And yet...he refuses to work more than 30-35 or so hours a week...and he only works the one job. His wife plays bingo. What I don't understand, but would like to, is this: why would people willingly live in nigh-abject poverty(with the exception of a few big possessions, he is rather impoverished)? Why do people put themselves in that situation, when they can easily get out of it? I've never understood that mentality...
First off, I have come to the opinion that, to argue half of your parts, you use false logic and possibly even made-up anecdotes. It seems that for every argument on a topic you have a hyperbolic anecdote; this is humorous, but should stop.
People just don't want out sometimes. Bingo can explain where they got those possessions; I once knew someone who furnished a house with three small televisions, a big-screen, two couches, and a armchair through bingo... the prize setups can be quite ridiculous.
Laziness can be a key, but I doubt as much with such a car; also, you obviously do not understand credit cards. Credit isn't just 'extended to anyone'... being in the situation where I cannot receive one, nor can around 2/3 of those around me, I can say this in truth.. I handle my business, but when I tried to finance a computer because my current debit-card limit was around 20 under the cost, I couldn't finance 20 bucks worth of credit.
If you don't understand; credit card companies send mailings en masse... doesn't mean they give out credit in the same way.
Slainte,
-Loonook
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Debating on Salvation because News just doesn't have the oomph for me . . .
Check me out on News if you feel I'm a 'newbie' when it comes to debate
First off, I have come to the opinion that, to argue half of your parts, you use false logic and possibly even made-up anecdotes. It seems that for every argument on a topic you have a hyperbolic anecdote; this is humorous, but should stop.
Two things. First, it's fine if you consider my logic faulty; I won't deny that sometimes I overextend my logic, or go down the wrong logical path.
Second, I don't use real life examples for every one of my topics of argument. Check my OM threads, and many of my topics here. But even though I am but 17, I have experienced much. When I am debating something of specific relevance to my experiences, eg, being poor, I use real events to back them up. How many times have I done this? On the original Eminent Domain thread back on the news, I spoke of my uncle who had his house and land taken. When speaking of the conditions of the poor, I tell of my experience with this. But to say that I do this every time is a hyperbole in itself.
People just don't want out sometimes. Bingo can explain where they got those possessions; I once knew someone who furnished a house with three small televisions, a big-screen, two couches, and a armchair through bingo... the prize setups can be quite ridiculous.
That makes sense, and I had never considered that. Thank you for the information.
Laziness can be a key, but I doubt as much with such a car; also, you obviously do not understand credit cards. Credit isn't just 'extended to anyone'... being in the situation where I cannot receive one, nor can around 2/3 of those around me, I can say this in truth.. I handle my business, but when I tried to finance a computer because my current debit-card limit was around 20 under the cost, I couldn't finance 20 bucks worth of credit.
If you don't understand; credit card companies send mailings en masse... doesn't mean they give out credit in the same way.
Also, valuable information. You're right...I've never had a credit card, so I don't know how they work.
So they finally banned this site at school. But I found an easy way around it. You go to Altavista.com and hit the translate button. It gives you the option to translate a phrase...or a web page. You enter this site's URL, and have it translate from French to English, or any language to English. The site will come up, in English, unblocked. I'm not sure why it works, but I thought it would be worth a try, and it worked. Yay.
Oh, and good news. May 31st is the 5 month anniversary of my mother and brother's deaths. My family and I were talking, and by the 31st we are getting them both real headstones. When they died, none of us could afford more than a simple grave marker. Now, however, I have saved a considerable amount of money, and with the help of my Uncles and Aunts, we're buying them 2.5' tall granite headstones. It's something I've been wanting to do for months.
Well, that's all for now. I have to work 4pm-12am tonight, so I might check back before I go to bed.
Bah, I can't get involved in the arguement at hand as I am too busy. Just wanted to check back in after my trip and pray that I can do well on the 2 ap tests and sat I have this week.
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"I never allowed my schooling to interfere with my education" -Mark Twain
Quote from hybrid life »
The war is for oil..its one of the ways to make this huge operation worthwhile. People care more about lower gas prices than iraqis anyway.
What others say about me:
Quote from JayC »
You're obviously an ignorant conservative. I blame your hill-billy Mom and Dad.
why would people willingly live in nigh-abject poverty(with the exception of a few big possessions, he is rather impoverished)? Why do people put themselves in that situation, when they can easily get out of it? I've never understood that mentality...
Laziness has been pointed out already. How about hopelessness? You know, what's the use? I'd imagine alot of poor individuals experience this feeling. Think about it for a minute. This guy is working fast food, he probably doesn't have any valued skills or higher education. He's faced with the possibility of working low-end jobs for the rest of his life and he has no hope for the future. Sure, he could rise in the company ranks. Maybe he could even be a store manager... so that he could still live in poverty. He needs to get a skill or get an education but he doesn't know where to turn for that.
Put it this way: just because it's easy for you, that doesn't mean it's easy for everyone.
why would people willingly live in nigh-abject poverty(with the exception of a few big possessions, he is rather impoverished)? Why do people put themselves in that situation, when they can easily get out of it? I've never understood that mentality...
Just becuase you can't understand it doesn't mean it's illogical. For example, if I were to only live in a small two room apartment for the rest of my life, I'd probably be content so long as I wasn't sharing it with anyone and the apartment was relatively quiet from 10 pm to 7 am. Just becuase something doesn't look materialistically satisfying doesn't mean it isn't satisfying on another level.
Remember, he is a Randian, and thus cannot understand concepts such as voluntary poverty... well, unless it is a weakness.
Why is it not a weakness? I mean, if someone decides to live a fairly ascetic lifestyle, I certainly don't see anything wrong with that. What exactly are you referring to here?
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Quote from ljossberir »
Prizm is the key to the greatness of the US!
Quote from Phyrexian »
If hefner was a rich, gay, playboy and had hot steamy sex with hot guys would you choose him? Of course not, mainly because im a straight male and find that stuff gross.
Stand by my side should I fight
Strengthen my steel should I falter
Smite my back should I flee
Save my soul should I fall
Official Recovering World of Warcraft Addict of The Ivory Tower
Laziness has been pointed out already. How about hopelessness? You know, what's the use? I'd imagine alot of poor individuals experience this feeling. Think about it for a minute. This guy is working fast food, he probably doesn't have any valued skills or higher education. He's faced with the possibility of working low-end jobs for the rest of his life and he has no hope for the future. Sure, he could rise in the company ranks. Maybe he could even be a store manager... so that he could still live in poverty. He needs to get a skill or get an education but he doesn't know where to turn for that.
I suppose that makes sense.
Put it this way: just because it's easy for you, that doesn't mean it's easy for everyone.
...it's not easy for me.
Quote from Denver »
Just becuase you can't understand it doesn't mean it's illogical. For example, if I were to only live in a small two room apartment for the rest of my life, I'd probably be content so long as I wasn't sharing it with anyone and the apartment was relatively quiet from 10 pm to 7 am. Just becuase something doesn't look materialistically satisfying doesn't mean it isn't satisfying on another level.
Oh, I don't contend that. I for one am happy so long as I have my laptop and some books. In truth, I would love nothing more than to live in an apartment in a quiet neighborhood, sitting in my chair, writing. 'Tis all. That's one thing. What I have trouble getting is the idea of willingly living in poverty. I wouldn't classify living as an ascetic as impoverished.
Remember, he is a Randian, and thus cannot understand concepts such as voluntary poverty
You're right, as much of an insult as that was meant to be. I understand the idea of living modestly. But I don't get the idea of living in squallor.
well, unless it is a weakness.
Maybe I'm tired, but to what weakness are you referring here?
Oh! I'm almost finished the first chapter of my novel. When I finish it, I'll post it. Is there a maximum word count for posts? Meh.
Are we interested? How many people have digital cameras?
In other news, remember that teacher's aide job I told you guys about? Well today I proctored the STAR test as 7-year-olds filled out bubbles for two hours. I think my sense of idyllic nostalgia is broken :(.
I'd be interested in that, sounds kinda fun. And, Goblinboy, with you as our new clan leader, I'm sure our entry will be, well...entered this time.
Well, if any of you browse the clan threads, you may know that yesterday on the Gaymers thread (and today to my friends and extended family) I came out as gay. So I suppose the Ivory Tower clan is my next stop on the tour. The friends I told didn't seem too surprised, and in fact said, "yeah, we thought so." I didn't think I was that damn obvious... Anyway, I just thought I'd share that bit of trivia.
In other news, I was grocery shopping tonight at Stop and Shop, and they have this new device on the carriage...it allows you to scan the items as you pull them from the shelf, order cold cuts from the deli without standing in line, and even search for products with its search engine. It's pretty neat, I think.
Also, I am starting to read Stephen King's Dark Tower series again. It's one of my favorite fantasy series of all time.
Hey, congrats on having the curage to tell people! I know my family wouldn't take news like that well... Ehh... I can't even be 100% sure of your sex over the internet, so I doubt it'll bother too many people here. ^^
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Possibly the last remaining member of the Banana Clan (+1)
Banana of the Month Feb '05 Cool stuff here.
Well, if any of you browse the clan threads, you may know that yesterday on the Gaymers thread (and today to my friends and extended family) I came out as gay. So I suppose the Ivory Tower clan is my next stop on the tour. The friends I told didn't seem too surprised, and in fact said, "yeah, we thought so." I didn't think I was that damn obvious... Anyway, I just thought I'd share that bit of trivia.
Really? I had no idea.
I do find it odd that you came out to a bunch of people on the Internet before you came out to your family, though :tongue2:
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Quote from ljossberir »
Prizm is the key to the greatness of the US!
Quote from Phyrexian »
If hefner was a rich, gay, playboy and had hot steamy sex with hot guys would you choose him? Of course not, mainly because im a straight male and find that stuff gross.
Stand by my side should I fight
Strengthen my steel should I falter
Smite my back should I flee
Save my soul should I fall
Official Recovering World of Warcraft Addict of The Ivory Tower
do find it odd that you came out to a bunch of people on the Internet before you came out to your family, though
I guess it was just easier, to first get if off my chest without having to think about people being ****ty.
Quote from Solace »
Hey, congrats on having the curage to tell people! I know my family wouldn't take news like that well... Ehh... I can't even be 100% sure of your sex over the internet, so I doubt it'll bother too many people here.
Thanks!
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There is no God and we are his prophets.
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/me redirects Goblinboy to the Gaymers Clan.
hehe.
I'm IMing with Feyd_Ruin right now, hopefully this **** will be cleared up in the next hour or so...
-Goblinboy
Did anyone see Laura Bush's speech last night. Surprisingly funny. Some excerpts that stand out in my mind:
Priceless.
I'm sorry, but he cannot be under the poverty line. Considering I lived just above or below the line for most of my childhood, I can tell you this is bunk. Just because you believe his income is at the poverty line doesn't make it true. Let's not have your inability to understand socioeconomy make a completely baseless post worse.
Slainte,
-Loonook
Debating on Salvation because News just doesn't have the oomph for me . . .
Check me out on News if you feel I'm a 'newbie' when it comes to debate
... And yes, Loonook>Jesus ...
Well, since the poverty threshold for a one person household in America is $8,980* a year, I'll have to take refute to what you're saying as well. Divided by 12, $8,980 yields $748.30 a month. If you're going to try and tell me that $748.30 a month is enough to own a new plasma TV and a new Mustang, I'm going to laugh at you and call B.S. on it.
*: Source: Federal Register, Vol. 68, No. 26, February 7, 2003, pp. 6456-6458.
Onto the the issue at hand. Good old Loonook; you know, I knew there was something wrong with jasaicrai...he didn't end every post directed at me with an insult. But I digress. In any event, I too have lived my early childhood hovering around the poverty line(either just above or below) and I know what constitutes that line. I can verify( though I suppose I can't prove it) that he makes, reportedly(from his wife/mistress/whatever she is) just over $8,000 a year1. There are many plausible explanations for this...credit card, for one; banks will give those things to just about anybody; Welfare, for another. But hey, maybe I'm indeed wrong...in fact, that blaring thing across the hall might not be a TV at all, but a figment of my often over-active imagination. And the car that I pass by on my way to my own car...I guess I'm imagining that, too.
Anyway, I need to get back to work. I have 2 more hours of my shift, and I'm on my lunch. I was only supposed to work until 3, but they asked me to stay until 7.
1: A sidenote. Have you ever noticed that the wealthy find it vulgar to discuss money and how much of it they make...but those with none use it as small talk subject? I learned of my neighbor's income while passing his wife/mistress/whatever in the hallway. I said, "How do you do," and she replied[not verbatim, of course] "Well, you know, money's tight and all. James only pulled in eight grand last year, so we're struggling."
- BTW, wouldn't just the plazma cost a goodly portion of that $8000, even ignoring the car? Maybe she ment $8000 that they saved, after buying everything... ?
EDIT:The car alone would cost over $8000 if it's as good as you say. =p
Possibly the last remaining member of the Banana Clan (+1)
Banana of the Month Feb '05
Cool stuff here.
"How's it goin', kid?" she asked me.
"Fine, though I'm breaking my ass for no pay."
"Yeah, Jim's got the same problem. He made what, eight thousand last year. It's terrible."
In any case, I'm not going to ask him how he acquired the TV and the car...I think that's a little too personal for my tastes, especially if it involves questionable legality.
Possibly the last remaining member of the Banana Clan (+1)
Banana of the Month Feb '05
Cool stuff here.
Another note about old Jimmy. He works for minimum wage at one of the restaurants on Main Street; He's a healthy young man, capable of much more than a less than full time job at Wendy's or whatever. And yet...he refuses to work more than 30-35 or so hours a week...and he only works the one job. His wife plays bingo. What I don't understand, but would like to, is this: why would people willingly live in nigh-abject poverty(with the exception of a few big possessions, he is rather impoverished)? Why do people put themselves in that situation, when they can easily get out of it? I've never understood that mentality...
Possibly the last remaining member of the Banana Clan (+1)
Banana of the Month Feb '05
Cool stuff here.
First off, I have come to the opinion that, to argue half of your parts, you use false logic and possibly even made-up anecdotes. It seems that for every argument on a topic you have a hyperbolic anecdote; this is humorous, but should stop.
People just don't want out sometimes. Bingo can explain where they got those possessions; I once knew someone who furnished a house with three small televisions, a big-screen, two couches, and a armchair through bingo... the prize setups can be quite ridiculous.
Laziness can be a key, but I doubt as much with such a car; also, you obviously do not understand credit cards. Credit isn't just 'extended to anyone'... being in the situation where I cannot receive one, nor can around 2/3 of those around me, I can say this in truth.. I handle my business, but when I tried to finance a computer because my current debit-card limit was around 20 under the cost, I couldn't finance 20 bucks worth of credit.
If you don't understand; credit card companies send mailings en masse... doesn't mean they give out credit in the same way.
Slainte,
-Loonook
Debating on Salvation because News just doesn't have the oomph for me . . .
Check me out on News if you feel I'm a 'newbie' when it comes to debate
... And yes, Loonook>Jesus ...
Second, I don't use real life examples for every one of my topics of argument. Check my OM threads, and many of my topics here. But even though I am but 17, I have experienced much. When I am debating something of specific relevance to my experiences, eg, being poor, I use real events to back them up. How many times have I done this? On the original Eminent Domain thread back on the news, I spoke of my uncle who had his house and land taken. When speaking of the conditions of the poor, I tell of my experience with this. But to say that I do this every time is a hyperbole in itself. That makes sense, and I had never considered that. Thank you for the information. Also, valuable information. You're right...I've never had a credit card, so I don't know how they work.
So they finally banned this site at school. But I found an easy way around it. You go to Altavista.com and hit the translate button. It gives you the option to translate a phrase...or a web page. You enter this site's URL, and have it translate from French to English, or any language to English. The site will come up, in English, unblocked. I'm not sure why it works, but I thought it would be worth a try, and it worked. Yay.
Oh, and good news. May 31st is the 5 month anniversary of my mother and brother's deaths. My family and I were talking, and by the 31st we are getting them both real headstones. When they died, none of us could afford more than a simple grave marker. Now, however, I have saved a considerable amount of money, and with the help of my Uncles and Aunts, we're buying them 2.5' tall granite headstones. It's something I've been wanting to do for months.
Well, that's all for now. I have to work 4pm-12am tonight, so I might check back before I go to bed.
What others say about me:
Sven Dostei
Unofficial Official arrogant teenage elitist of The Ivory Tower
Laziness has been pointed out already. How about hopelessness? You know, what's the use? I'd imagine alot of poor individuals experience this feeling. Think about it for a minute. This guy is working fast food, he probably doesn't have any valued skills or higher education. He's faced with the possibility of working low-end jobs for the rest of his life and he has no hope for the future. Sure, he could rise in the company ranks. Maybe he could even be a store manager... so that he could still live in poverty. He needs to get a skill or get an education but he doesn't know where to turn for that.
Put it this way: just because it's easy for you, that doesn't mean it's easy for everyone.
Just becuase you can't understand it doesn't mean it's illogical. For example, if I were to only live in a small two room apartment for the rest of my life, I'd probably be content so long as I wasn't sharing it with anyone and the apartment was relatively quiet from 10 pm to 7 am. Just becuase something doesn't look materialistically satisfying doesn't mean it isn't satisfying on another level.
Slainte,
-Loonook
Debating on Salvation because News just doesn't have the oomph for me . . .
Check me out on News if you feel I'm a 'newbie' when it comes to debate
... And yes, Loonook>Jesus ...
Why is it not a weakness? I mean, if someone decides to live a fairly ascetic lifestyle, I certainly don't see anything wrong with that. What exactly are you referring to here?
Strengthen my steel should I falter
Smite my back should I flee
Save my soul should I fall
Official Recovering World of Warcraft Addict of The Ivory Tower
Oh! I'm almost finished the first chapter of my novel. When I finish it, I'll post it. Is there a maximum word count for posts? Meh.
Possibly the last remaining member of the Banana Clan (+1)
Banana of the Month Feb '05
Cool stuff here.
Are we interested? How many people have digital cameras?
In other news, remember that teacher's aide job I told you guys about? Well today I proctored the STAR test as 7-year-olds filled out bubbles for two hours. I think my sense of idyllic nostalgia is broken :(.
-Goblinboy
Well, if any of you browse the clan threads, you may know that yesterday on the Gaymers thread (and today to my friends and extended family) I came out as gay. So I suppose the Ivory Tower clan is my next stop on the tour. The friends I told didn't seem too surprised, and in fact said, "yeah, we thought so." I didn't think I was that damn obvious... Anyway, I just thought I'd share that bit of trivia.
In other news, I was grocery shopping tonight at Stop and Shop, and they have this new device on the carriage...it allows you to scan the items as you pull them from the shelf, order cold cuts from the deli without standing in line, and even search for products with its search engine. It's pretty neat, I think.
Also, I am starting to read Stephen King's Dark Tower series again. It's one of my favorite fantasy series of all time.
Eh, that's about it.
Possibly the last remaining member of the Banana Clan (+1)
Banana of the Month Feb '05
Cool stuff here.
Really? I had no idea.
I do find it odd that you came out to a bunch of people on the Internet before you came out to your family, though :tongue2:
Strengthen my steel should I falter
Smite my back should I flee
Save my soul should I fall
Official Recovering World of Warcraft Addict of The Ivory Tower