Hey that's not fair Iso; someone has to be scum in the Godfather game! That's like running a Mafia game with nothing but townies.
Although I guess this is tongue in cheek, I don't agree. If someone is always scum, then you might not learn that much since there'll probably be the 1/3 chance of getting it right.
I think it's interesting that we all shared similar opinions, but were wrong. I wouldn't have been surprised to see wagons form based on reasoning similar to ours. Although, if most people put down "not enough info" you probably need a bit more to make the game more interesting.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
What does surprise me is to see most of you interpreted B's casualness as reverse psychology. It's the very beginning of the game, his mood is very light, what reason is there to think he is hiding something?
That grey zone of "is it RVS? is it not RVS?" is tough to analyze I suppose.
What does surprise me is to see most of you interpreted B's casualness as reverse psychology. It's the very beginning of the game, his mood is very light, what reason is there to think he is hiding something?
To a certain extent it would depend on who player B is. A newer player is much mroe likely to nervously apply jokes and fish while saying "you don't have to tell me I'd just like to know..." But in any case, I think two strikes in a short space count against him heavily. Since the player in question was inexperienced and had recently returned to the game, I can see an argument for "nervous townie" too.
Isn't that just how mafia works? -D1, you usually have about a 1/4 chance of getting it right, just at random.
-Hmm... or maybe we should run scumless mafia games occasionally, just to keep people on their toes? How would that even work?
Yeah, but the GF game is about reads, not necessarily finding the scum. There usually is odds of 1/3 to find scum, but working under the assumption of "one of them must be scum" is flawed when we're dealing with a subset of a game. Especially when that subset is usually "something interesting happened here are reactions" rather than a random sample.
I'm pretty sure someone has seriously floated the idea of a scumless game to me. It took more persuading than it should have to convince them it was a terrible idea.
I approached this round of Godfather with that exact premise in mind, ZDS - sometimes we chase ghosts in our games and approach in-game problems with the idea that someone in a group MUST be scum - when in reality, we're misinterpreting what's going on. I probably won't do (m)any more like that in the future but it seemed like a good lesson to teach.
Somewhat related: I once ran a bastard game with 9 mafia, 1 SK, and 2 town. Generic was one of the victims in that game, in fact. The scum team all had PRs except for the Goon who was the only one who could kill (though not everyone picked up on this due to not knowing their team) sans the Toughguy (who got lynched D1). When the Goon died, anyone could kill, and both of the townies had unlockable abilities they got when the other died. The SK was Unlynchable until one faction died and then swapped that for Unkillability, had a post restriction, could force a NL if they were the first vote of the Day, and eventually got Daykilled by one of the scum. I can post the full setup here if I can find it, if anyone is interested. The town ended up winning because it came down to 3 scum and a townie - two of the scum tried targeting the townie despite them being a proven PGO-type role and the last scum had used their 1-shot Daykill against the SK. The townie had a double vote and that was that.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I don't get the point of setups like that. Why not make it 9 town, 1 SK and 2 Mafia? If you have 9 Mafia who don't know who each other are (and don't win when they have a mjaority apparently), then they're basically townies anyway. Maybe they get to make a badly informed collective vig shot, but they're still basically a "town" faction. It's also not the first "loads of Mafia with a few townies" game I've seen, and I just don't get it. It'd be interesting as a corruption if the Mafia faction didn't play exactly like any normal Town with sime extra killing ablity. It's barely functionally different to putting the town names in red and the mafia in blue.
You can say "derf it's a bastard game", but no-one actually enjoys bastard games apart from the mod and particularly sadistic specators.
If you're going to play a stupid mini setup, just use Lost Mafia. 1 townie, 2 Mafia, 9 Serial Killers. At least everyone (apart from the townie) knows where they stand.
@Eco: Sadly, some of the players who were in that game said it was one of their favorites...and 'derf because it's a bastard game'. It actually served a purpose, though - it was interesting to see everyone reluctant to vote ANYBODY so as to not oust themselves and accidentally kill their buddies in the process. Maybe it's a sign that townies should be more cautious instead of overextending themselves.
@ZDS: I had a friend who ran that once. Everyone eventually got really pissed off and voted her...and won. I'll make another Godfather round when I get home. Someone should make a post in here between now and then so I don't have to edit this one or delete and repost to bump.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Eco: Sadly, some of the players who were in that game said it was one of their favorites...and 'derf because it's a bastard game'. It actually served a purpose, though - it was interesting to see everyone reluctant to vote ANYBODY so as to not oust themselves and accidentally kill their buddies in the process. Maybe it's a sign that townies should be more cautious instead of overextending themselves.
There's no accounting for taste I guess. If townies get any more cautious, games will take even longer than they already do. Generally speaking, intentionally slowing a game down and introducing paranoia is a bad thing. This applies to all games, not just Mafia.
If you want a better implementation of that, try Space Monkey Mafia, where all the townies recieve flavour that makes them sound like a traitor, and the Mafia know it. RafK ran it as "Manipulator Mafia".
ZDS: To clarify, you are suggesting that nervousness etc as shown by player B isn't a scumtell? Because I think that it makes logical sense that a player (particluarly one new to the mafia alignment) is more likely to makes jokes, appear nervous and oversue smilies and so forth.
Now, in forcing me to think about it, the theory behind the tell is much more conventional wisdom rather than demonstrated trends (which is also the case for most tells), and there is a convincing case to be made that townies can easily be nervous, overuse in-jokes and inquire about something they don't understand. Logically then, it implies that it's more of a newb tell and therefore not conclusive.
I think it's good enough for post 20, but is not exactly a slam-dunk. I certainly don't see how you can say player B is town for it, and he clearly is fishing for A's role.
On your second point, I don't entriely agree. Certainly, one should be aware that you can't solely rely on "what would I do?" (Which I fell afoul of in Ataghan trying to work out why DV had been added to the network) because everyone does think differently, but looking at the situation from another perspective is an immensely helpful tool.
For example, if there's a claimed vig and you're wondering if he could be a serial killer, you can look at this targets and say "if I were in his position, would I have killed them as a SK? Or would there have been better targets?"
I guess the problem arises when you look at something like answers or reactions, and attack someone for not precisely matching your own, because there's a much variety in words/phrasing. I know I try not to ask questions "for reactions" unless I can broadly plan out how I'd expect someone of a particular alignment to react, but I find it difficult to actually pin something down that isn't WIFOM or too narrow, so I don't usually bother.
So, I guess my point is that putting yourself in somone's shoes can hlpe you think about a situation from another angle ("What would I have done here as scum? Is what they did a reasonable option? Can I find a motivation if I pretend to be them?"), but if you expect everyone to play exactly like you (in answers to questions or plays where they've done something sub-optimal that you think is obviously the wrong play) then you're right, you can't rely on your own thoguth process being universal.
To try and repurpose your ending setence, I think it's ok to look for people who act like you would act when scum (because they are exhibiting a scum mentality), but not useful to look like people not acting like you would as town (because people play differently). It looks self contradictory, but I think it makes sense.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Situation: Day 3 starts, no scum dead, scum RBer revealed, Player D claimed Vig either the Day before or the first Day but not that they were Roleblocked, Town Tracker dead claimed ability failed Night 1, MyLAL. Oh, and Player D claimed they won't shoot without a consensus. Go.
Quote from Player A »
Massclaim time?
Quote from Player A »
If we do, I'll go first.
Quote from Player B »
Stop fishing. Why would we all claim?
Quote from Player A »
Because we're in MyLAL. If we don't, then we have a lot less info to go on.
Quote from Player C »
Correction.
If we massclaim now and there's another power role among the town, then town is completely ****ed.
This is a Basic. I would honestly be surprised if there were more than an information role and a vig for town, but if there is, they are the last ****ing hope we have of winning this game in the event that Player D misfires and we mislynch in addition to that.
Your call for a massclaim would serve no purpose except to inform scum what their next target should be.
It's an intelligent move for scum to have kept Player D alive (assuming he is the Vig), as his lack of willingness to shoot can help them paint him as scum easily. As you can see, I am advocating his lynch if he cannot prove to us that he is the Vig. This is our only outed power role. If he cannot be confirmed as town, he must die, but if he can be confirmed as town, then we have a chance of pulling all of this together.
But nice fishing, scum.
Player D, you said you had Player E pegged as scum. Player A is his replacement. If you really think Player E was scum, then shoot Player A NOW so that we can lynch Player F if you really are Vig. Like I said, if not, you go to the top of my scum list.
Quote from Player D »
Um, this is going to be hard to believe, but Game Moderator just told me I can only shoot at night. I realize that puts me in a bad light, but look, my pm didn't specify day or night, just that it was one shot. Sorry.
Can we get on with a regular lynch until night time?
Quote from Player A »
@Player C: So your argument is that if there is another power role, then town is screwed. Specifically, only a doctor can save us now. But, if Player D misfires, then we have to lynch scum.
Fine then. We should massclaim if Player D misfires. We're screwed anyway.
Quote from Player C »
@Player D: God. Dammit.
Then I ask. Who are you going to shoot tonight?
@Player A: Congratulations, you can put words into my mouth.
I'm saying that if we OUT another power role, the town is ****ed. And we already know there is no Doctor, so for you to have missed that...
Unvote, Vote Player A
Since we can no longer rely on the Vig shot, we have to lynch properly NOW. Player D, I take it your vote is with me?
Don't tell us who you're shooting. Just choose one of the people I named, as I'm pretty certain at this point that Player B is town. As long as two deaths show up (which has a 33% chance of happening), you will be cleared as Vig.
Quote from Player A »
What?
We are in mislynch and lose. What do you mean "If we out another power role, the town is ****ed"? WE ARE ****ED EITHER WAY. IF WE DON'T HIT SCUM, GAME OVER.
Player D would be our only hope, but scum has a RB. That makes it so the lynch is our only hope. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS?
I want a massclaim because it gives us some chance of catching scum.
Quote from Player D »
I don't know Player C, you've been back and forth on a few people, and others haven't checked in yet. Also, I never pegged anyone as scum, it's just your list of observations that had him on the scum pegs with five other people: Player G, Player H, and you (the other two are gone already)
I still wanna hear from the others before we rush through this day as well. Rushing a lynch is a bad thing, right?
Quote from Player I »
Everyone needs to calm the **** down right now. Player C, quit demanding for a VIG SHOT THIS INSTANT. The town needs to weigh in on this. Also, what if he shoots a town PR, that never claimed because you are refusing a mass claim? Seriously?!
Okay. We are at Lylo. We know this. As a result, we HAVE to mass claim. That is the first step. From there, we make sure that claims are legit, then work through who is lying. You DON'T fire a vig shot blindly into the town, I don't care how good you think your reads are.
Player D, wait. Wait until everyone has claimed. Then we will discuss where to go with your Vig shot. As for my claim, I am (insert flavor) Vanilla Town, (insert flavor). Honestly the order for this doesn't really matter. We just need to do this before anything else today.
Quote from Player C »
@Player A: How does a massclaim give us ANY chance of catching scum if we don't have another power role? Because the scum is just going to all claim vanilla town. They can block one role and kill the other. Our only chance is lynching properly. Game Moderator stated that we do NOT have a Jailer or a Doc, and this is a Basic, so the only thing I can think of that we MIGHT have for some reason is another vig, or a cop. And if we do have a cop, then MAYBE we can clear some people, like, NOW. Otherwise, mass claiming can ONLY hurt town.
Quote from Player A »
@Player I: Aye. I am (insert flavor), Town Untargetable (insert flavor).
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Player A is Town. He's being consistant with what he is posting and has no malcious intent behind his posts.
Player B is Town. Either a newb or just plain bad at the game. Annoyance is read with "Stop Fishing" and the other portion reads as it is said.
Player C is Mafia. Twisting words and being rather forceful when limited players are posting. The vote on Player A is awful since the reasoning used does not point to a scum mind set. The reasoing for not wanting a Mass Claim is notrocious.
Player D is Mafia. Mainly instinct here, but the way his posts are worded reads to me as if Player C is his scum buddy. The question at the end is not fitting since there is no one rushing to lynch anyone. (Maybe Player C, but that is only one vote)
Player I is Town. Either this player is great at faking his frustration or he is solidly town.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Player A is obvscum, no question about it. Town Untargetable makes next-to-zero sense, so I'm going to guess he's Mafia Untargetable, which would make sense in a setup with both a Tracker and maybe a Vig. Following from that I'm going to guess there is a Town Vig and Player D is in fact it.
Player C could go either way if A is truly Mafia Untargetable. Could be scum trying to press D into wasting his vig shot on A, but starting a wagon on A pre-mass claim would be unnecessarily risky when the lynch is scum-A's kryptonite. I'm going to say C is town.
Player I strikes me as scum with the way he slides into a mass claim when the ambivalence on the matter was palpable. If it's 5 on 3 like I'm assuming, the town could still have no-lynched (not necessarily the best course of action, but given that Player I was making a call to reason I think he would've made that acknowledgement if he was town). A & I could've planned this out during Night 2.
Don't have enough information for Player B. I'll guess he's town for no rhyme or reason.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
E/A: As the likely last powerrole, him wanting to lead off a mylo massclaim is odd. Also, if the claim is false, it would explain his survival to endgame and deters a vigshot (though it could easily be his real role, but mafia aligned). [Scum]
B: Bad reaction that could easily be town. But, maybe distancing with A there? I'll guess [Scum] for the purposes of this game, though I wouldn't at all be pushing for his lynch yet, not based on this.
C: He starts by conveniently directing the assumed dayvig at the untargetable. Then, he asks the vig to both claim and not claim targets (in the same post!) all while doing everything to avoid a mass claim. [Scum]
D: [Town] -though I wouldn't be surprised if he was also lying about having that vigshot
F: C tries to chain lynch F for the win. [Town]
G & H: I wouldn't be at all surprised if one of these was the other scum instead of B, but I have nothing to base that read on, so I'll just guess that both are [Town]
I: Easily [Town].
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
This excerpt was taken from Iji Mafia, my first game on this site. The OP stated that there were no protective roles.
Player A = Chibi C'thulhu (now known as doublL)
Player B = pinkfloyd
Player C = Iso
Player D = Nikomaru
Player E = Ambassador Laquatus (now known as Clock King, who was replaced by doublL)
Player F = The Ice King (now known as The Cold Monarch, who replaced Zebi)
Player G = Sepiriel
Player H = indomitablebug
Player I = Anaklusmos
I had requested a 5-part T/S list from everyone (strong town, leaning town, null, leaning scum, strong scum) and compiled it all, and noted a weird interaction between Niko and Clock King early on - that they had each other as scum but didn't push each other or even state why, really. I also had Zebi as scum, and by extension, TCM when he replaced him. Nikomaru claimed 1-Shot Vig, and said he wouldn't fire without town consensus. We got to MyLaL and Chibi C'thulhu started aggressively pushing the massclaim, which sent up red flags to me, and after claiming Untargetable, I wanted to lynch him, but knew I couldn't rally the support for it. Nikomaru, Chibi, and TCM were the scum team, and Niko wouldn't prove he was the Vig. This was my first game, mind you, so I had absolutely no concept of how games were structured or Standard Operating Procedure in Mafia games. pinkfloyd was the Cop and tried to aggressively breadcrumb that he got a scum result on Niko, and when that didn't work, he flat-out claimed; I didn't believe him because I thought he was gambiting scum trying to force a mislynch in the endgame (despite my town read of him through the entire game up to that point). Anaklusmos and Shalako didn't really help the endgame, despite being the two most experienced townies still alive, and we ended up lynching the un-CCed Cop in a game with a claimed Untargetable, Vig, and dead Tracker. It was a perfect scum win.
So the end result:
Player A = Mafia Untargetable
Player B = Town Cop
Player C = Town Vanilla
Player D = Mafia Goon
Player E = Replaced (but scum)
Player F = Mafia Goon
Player G = Town Vanilla
Player H = Town Vanilla
Player I = Town Vanilla
I think KCC got the closest.
This is the game where I learned, "Be stubborn about your vote if no one is listening to you."
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Oh right there was an RBer. I don't remember which it was.
I think it was Cop, Tracker, Backup (except we didn't actually have the Backup because Seppel forgot it :swear:) vs. Untargetable, Roleblocker, and Goon.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
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Although I guess this is tongue in cheek, I don't agree. If someone is always scum, then you might not learn that much since there'll probably be the 1/3 chance of getting it right.
I think it's interesting that we all shared similar opinions, but were wrong. I wouldn't have been surprised to see wagons form based on reasoning similar to ours. Although, if most people put down "not enough info" you probably need a bit more to make the game more interesting.
Confirmation bias.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
That grey zone of "is it RVS? is it not RVS?" is tough to analyze I suppose.
Isn't that just how mafia works? -D1, you usually have about a 1/4 chance of getting it right, just at random.
-Hmm... or maybe we should run scumless mafia games occasionally, just to keep people on their toes? How would that even work?
To a certain extent it would depend on who player B is. A newer player is much mroe likely to nervously apply jokes and fish while saying "you don't have to tell me I'd just like to know..." But in any case, I think two strikes in a short space count against him heavily. Since the player in question was inexperienced and had recently returned to the game, I can see an argument for "nervous townie" too.
Yeah, but the GF game is about reads, not necessarily finding the scum. There usually is odds of 1/3 to find scum, but working under the assumption of "one of them must be scum" is flawed when we're dealing with a subset of a game. Especially when that subset is usually "something interesting happened here are reactions" rather than a random sample.
I'm pretty sure someone has seriously floated the idea of a scumless game to me. It took more persuading than it should have to convince them it was a terrible idea.
Somewhat related: I once ran a bastard game with 9 mafia, 1 SK, and 2 town. Generic was one of the victims in that game, in fact. The scum team all had PRs except for the Goon who was the only one who could kill (though not everyone picked up on this due to not knowing their team) sans the Toughguy (who got lynched D1). When the Goon died, anyone could kill, and both of the townies had unlockable abilities they got when the other died. The SK was Unlynchable until one faction died and then swapped that for Unkillability, had a post restriction, could force a NL if they were the first vote of the Day, and eventually got Daykilled by one of the scum. I can post the full setup here if I can find it, if anyone is interested. The town ended up winning because it came down to 3 scum and a townie - two of the scum tried targeting the townie despite them being a proven PGO-type role and the last scum had used their 1-shot Daykill against the SK. The townie had a double vote and that was that.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
You can say "derf it's a bastard game", but no-one actually enjoys bastard games apart from the mod and particularly sadistic specators.
If you're going to play a stupid mini setup, just use Lost Mafia. 1 townie, 2 Mafia, 9 Serial Killers. At least everyone (apart from the townie) knows where they stand.
@ZDS: I had a friend who ran that once. Everyone eventually got really pissed off and voted her...and won. I'll make another Godfather round when I get home. Someone should make a post in here between now and then so I don't have to edit this one or delete and repost to bump.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
There's no accounting for taste I guess. If townies get any more cautious, games will take even longer than they already do. Generally speaking, intentionally slowing a game down and introducing paranoia is a bad thing. This applies to all games, not just Mafia.
If you want a better implementation of that, try Space Monkey Mafia, where all the townies recieve flavour that makes them sound like a traitor, and the Mafia know it. RafK ran it as "Manipulator Mafia".
ZDS: To clarify, you are suggesting that nervousness etc as shown by player B isn't a scumtell? Because I think that it makes logical sense that a player (particluarly one new to the mafia alignment) is more likely to makes jokes, appear nervous and oversue smilies and so forth.
Now, in forcing me to think about it, the theory behind the tell is much more conventional wisdom rather than demonstrated trends (which is also the case for most tells), and there is a convincing case to be made that townies can easily be nervous, overuse in-jokes and inquire about something they don't understand. Logically then, it implies that it's more of a newb tell and therefore not conclusive.
I think it's good enough for post 20, but is not exactly a slam-dunk. I certainly don't see how you can say player B is town for it, and he clearly is fishing for A's role.
On your second point, I don't entriely agree. Certainly, one should be aware that you can't solely rely on "what would I do?" (Which I fell afoul of in Ataghan trying to work out why DV had been added to the network) because everyone does think differently, but looking at the situation from another perspective is an immensely helpful tool.
For example, if there's a claimed vig and you're wondering if he could be a serial killer, you can look at this targets and say "if I were in his position, would I have killed them as a SK? Or would there have been better targets?"
I guess the problem arises when you look at something like answers or reactions, and attack someone for not precisely matching your own, because there's a much variety in words/phrasing. I know I try not to ask questions "for reactions" unless I can broadly plan out how I'd expect someone of a particular alignment to react, but I find it difficult to actually pin something down that isn't WIFOM or too narrow, so I don't usually bother.
So, I guess my point is that putting yourself in somone's shoes can hlpe you think about a situation from another angle ("What would I have done here as scum? Is what they did a reasonable option? Can I find a motivation if I pretend to be them?"), but if you expect everyone to play exactly like you (in answers to questions or plays where they've done something sub-optimal that you think is obviously the wrong play) then you're right, you can't rely on your own thoguth process being universal.
To try and repurpose your ending setence, I think it's ok to look for people who act like you would act when scum (because they are exhibiting a scum mentality), but not useful to look like people not acting like you would as town (because people play differently). It looks self contradictory, but I think it makes sense.
Also, Godfather incoming after some L4D2.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Player B is Town. Either a newb or just plain bad at the game. Annoyance is read with "Stop Fishing" and the other portion reads as it is said.
Player C is Mafia. Twisting words and being rather forceful when limited players are posting. The vote on Player A is awful since the reasoning used does not point to a scum mind set. The reasoing for not wanting a Mass Claim is notrocious.
Player D is Mafia. Mainly instinct here, but the way his posts are worded reads to me as if Player C is his scum buddy. The question at the end is not fitting since there is no one rushing to lynch anyone. (Maybe Player C, but that is only one vote)
Player I is Town. Either this player is great at faking his frustration or he is solidly town.
I'll give the solution tomorrow morning when I get home from work.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Player A is obvscum, no question about it. Town Untargetable makes next-to-zero sense, so I'm going to guess he's Mafia Untargetable, which would make sense in a setup with both a Tracker and maybe a Vig. Following from that I'm going to guess there is a Town Vig and Player D is in fact it.
Player C could go either way if A is truly Mafia Untargetable. Could be scum trying to press D into wasting his vig shot on A, but starting a wagon on A pre-mass claim would be unnecessarily risky when the lynch is scum-A's kryptonite. I'm going to say C is town.
Player I strikes me as scum with the way he slides into a mass claim when the ambivalence on the matter was palpable. If it's 5 on 3 like I'm assuming, the town could still have no-lynched (not necessarily the best course of action, but given that Player I was making a call to reason I think he would've made that acknowledgement if he was town). A & I could've planned this out during Night 2.
Don't have enough information for Player B. I'll guess he's town for no rhyme or reason.
Night shift?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
E/A: As the likely last powerrole, him wanting to lead off a mylo massclaim is odd. Also, if the claim is false, it would explain his survival to endgame and deters a vigshot (though it could easily be his real role, but mafia aligned). [Scum]
B: Bad reaction that could easily be town. But, maybe distancing with A there? I'll guess [Scum] for the purposes of this game, though I wouldn't at all be pushing for his lynch yet, not based on this.
C: He starts by conveniently directing the assumed dayvig at the untargetable. Then, he asks the vig to both claim and not claim targets (in the same post!) all while doing everything to avoid a mass claim. [Scum]
D: [Town] -though I wouldn't be surprised if he was also lying about having that vigshot
F: C tries to chain lynch F for the win. [Town]
G & H: I wouldn't be at all surprised if one of these was the other scum instead of B, but I have nothing to base that read on, so I'll just guess that both are [Town]
I: Easily [Town].
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Player A = Chibi C'thulhu (now known as doublL)
Player B = pinkfloyd
Player C = Iso
Player D = Nikomaru
Player E = Ambassador Laquatus (now known as Clock King, who was replaced by doublL)
Player F = The Ice King (now known as The Cold Monarch, who replaced Zebi)
Player G = Sepiriel
Player H = indomitablebug
Player I = Anaklusmos
I had requested a 5-part T/S list from everyone (strong town, leaning town, null, leaning scum, strong scum) and compiled it all, and noted a weird interaction between Niko and Clock King early on - that they had each other as scum but didn't push each other or even state why, really. I also had Zebi as scum, and by extension, TCM when he replaced him. Nikomaru claimed 1-Shot Vig, and said he wouldn't fire without town consensus. We got to MyLaL and Chibi C'thulhu started aggressively pushing the massclaim, which sent up red flags to me, and after claiming Untargetable, I wanted to lynch him, but knew I couldn't rally the support for it. Nikomaru, Chibi, and TCM were the scum team, and Niko wouldn't prove he was the Vig. This was my first game, mind you, so I had absolutely no concept of how games were structured or Standard Operating Procedure in Mafia games. pinkfloyd was the Cop and tried to aggressively breadcrumb that he got a scum result on Niko, and when that didn't work, he flat-out claimed; I didn't believe him because I thought he was gambiting scum trying to force a mislynch in the endgame (despite my town read of him through the entire game up to that point). Anaklusmos and Shalako didn't really help the endgame, despite being the two most experienced townies still alive, and we ended up lynching the un-CCed Cop in a game with a claimed Untargetable, Vig, and dead Tracker. It was a perfect scum win.
So the end result:
Player A = Mafia Untargetable
Player B = Town Cop
Player C = Town Vanilla
Player D = Mafia Goon
Player E = Replaced (but scum)
Player F = Mafia Goon
Player G = Town Vanilla
Player H = Town Vanilla
Player I = Town Vanilla
I think KCC got the closest.
This is the game where I learned, "Be stubborn about your vote if no one is listening to you."
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I think it was Cop, Tracker, Backup (except we didn't actually have the Backup because Seppel forgot it :swear:) vs. Untargetable, Roleblocker, and Goon.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player